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  #26  
Old September 14, 2005, 01:37 PM
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Zobair Zobair is offline
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This is how I see it.

I don't think it is a matter of motivation or commitment. If that was the case we would have never got 155/2 in the first innings. Neither can any one fault the commitment and discipline shown by our fielders and bowlers. Simply put, we have failed against the SPINNERS. Our batsmen played the Sri Lankan pacers reasonably well, did not play too many bad shots, and tried their best to stay at the crease.

The Sri Lankan spinners caused the collapse in both the first and the second innings. So let us cut to the chase. It was not commitment, it was not motivation (both would have been reflected across the board rather than in just one aspect of our game) but rather our inadequate preparation against the spinners. People can choose to believe otherwise, but it will do nothing for you except bring you misery and more misery.

Let us look at the two SL spinners individually in tersm of how they impacted on our batsmen.

Muralitharan

First innings:

1) Straighter one from Murali gets Rafique. Nothing special about the delivery just an aggressive slog shot by Rafique but it was expected of him. He was always going to go for his shots, and if it is his lucky day, he would get a few runs expect it was not meant to be this time.

2) Khaled Mashud out to the DOOSRA.

3) Shahadat gets out to the DOOSRA. period

Second innings:

1) Shahriar Nafees out to the DOOSRA.

2) Ash stays on the backfoot and doesn't play at a off-spinner that stays low and spins sharply and would gone done leg. Ash, unlucky with the decision, but he would have been better off playing on the front foot.

3) Tushar out to a ball that kept low. Tushar once again tries to defend off the backfoot to an offspinner but can't get jam his bat down low enough in time and gets bowled.

4) Aftab out to the DOOSRA.

5) Rafique once again out to an attacking sweep slog.

6) Enamul deceived and stumped by the DOOSRA.

So let us tally the dismissals. 5 out of 9 dismissals to the DOOSRA (~55%), 2 to balls that kept low and should have been played on the front foot, and 2 slogs!

So what are the lessons to be learnt?

1) We really need to figure a way to spot/play the DOOSRA. Doing that alone will make Murali half as effective. Since I had some time on my hands, in the true amateur spirit, I have come up with some ideas

- The conventional method is for the batsman at the crease to watch the ball closely as it comes out of the hand. Another could be, I don't know if it is possible, for the non-striker, who has a much better view of the bowler to give some sort of subtle signal if he believes it is going to be the doosra (may be a thumbs up); an instant's notice may just be enough for the batsman at the striker's end.

- Another way, which even the commentators mentioned, would be to watch the angle of delivery and line of the delivery. If it is wide out-side off, it is likely to be an off-spinner. If it is close to the stumps it will more tricky. From what I could see, I may be wrong, Murali's off-spinners tend to be straighter before pitching and spinning sharply. On the other hand, his DOOSRAs tend to slightly angled in the right-handers (way from left-handers).

2) Ask Shahadat Hossain about how to go full-stretch on FRONT FOOT and to the pitch of the ball and defending it down the wicket, unless the ball is really short. If its a spinning wicket than stay on the front-foot 99% of the time regardless.

Herath

Well he was only used in the first innings. I am too lazy to go through all his wickets. But the summary analysis is as follows:

His dangerous deliveries are the faster arm balls. There is not much more to him. He is certainly a much easier proposition than Murali. To counter him just look out for his faster deliveries and play him straight.

The challenge for our batsmen will thus be to come up with an effective plan against the two spinners. It won't be easy. In the second test, I will be satisfied if our batsmen exhibit some sort of a consistent plan to tackle these two.

Edited on, September 14, 2005, 6:39 PM GMT, by Zobair.
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  #27  
Old September 14, 2005, 03:37 PM
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BD Tigers BD Tigers is offline
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Like to say something Zobair has suggested.

I don’t think the non-striker giving the signal wud work. Cause the batsman has to really concetrate on what the bowler is doing. Checking the non striker at the moment of the ball release will be a disaster.

But I do agree w/ the 2nd one. What the commentators were saying. The line of the ball tends to tell what is coming. Most of Murali's off spin balls starts out side off stump. His doosra's line goes to the middle/leg. So if Dav or the commentators pass this info to our batsmen, this will help a lot. I hope they are doing it. Specially Athar since he was there w/ Manjekar and Jacob who were saying it. And last of all, please come to the front foot. There is no point playing off spin in back foot. Murali is too vicious and quick for the batsman to have time to react in back foot. I think the closing fielders changed the batsmen tactics to play on front foot. But if your defense technic is good then it shud not be a problem. Just see how Shahadat played Murali. Straight bat w/ front foot.
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  #28  
Old September 14, 2005, 05:10 PM
amra_korbo_joy amra_korbo_joy is offline
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Zobair, good analysis.
It should be posted in the front page so that many people can see this.
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  #29  
Old September 14, 2005, 05:50 PM
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kaisermatin kaisermatin is offline
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Bashar blamed the field for the failure! the field was no good. we play better on better fields. but this field just turns the balls that spins our batsmen to nut heads! Go figure!
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  #30  
Old September 14, 2005, 06:43 PM
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CricTiger CricTiger is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by gravitY
Quote:
Originally posted by sovik
I blame only the players. 152/2 to 188 allout, i never imagined that. and 86 allout
I totally agree with you!!! 152/2 then 188 allout, unthinkable.. absolutely ridiculous..
I also Agree with you guys 1000%.I f we could post a total of 260/280 in the 1st innings things could have been much more different for us.And we could give them some real fight.

After that less than 4 overs collaspe, ruined our moral and attitude towards the 1st test.

Now what is next.As a BD supporter just wait for the next test and keep supporting the way we have been doing so.
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  #31  
Old September 14, 2005, 06:54 PM
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CricTiger CricTiger is offline
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Good analysis from CricInfo site

"Bangladesh were bowled out for just 86 in 27.4 overs, their lowest total in Test cricket. Ultimately, they paid the price for failing to capitalise on a good start on day one. If 153 for 2 had been converted into a 300 plus total then Sri Lanka would have faced some pressure on a turning track. "

I also feel the same way.I read somewhere that Dav also blamed our first innings collapse the reason for this mess.

Edited on, September 15, 2005, 12:05 AM GMT, by CricTiger.
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  #32  
Old September 14, 2005, 07:40 PM
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Mahir Mahir is offline
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The players themselves. Simple and straightforward. They just couldnt play Murali in the 2nd innings. (but it should be remembered that he was seen off pretty well during the ODIs, so its not outside the capabilities of our players.)
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  #33  
Old September 14, 2005, 08:44 PM
AussieBloke AussieBloke is offline
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Its a simple question: Shouldnt Dav Whatmore know Murali's doosra inside out as he had been the coach of SL for so long?. Yet, the players have no clue to doosra? One member mentioned that Sanjay Manjrekar discussed it and hopefully Atahar Ali heard it in the commentary box. So now he can relay this info to the players. Goodness Gracious, is this what we are headed to? Our selectors hear comments from other former cricketers and then relay the news to our players so that they can benefit?

Zobair mentioned ways to deal with doosra in an earlier post. Well, if we (the fans) can somewhat figure out ways to handle Murali's doosra or at least figure out what may be coming, I will be damned if our coach cant do that. And it would appear that this "vital info" was not shared with the players. Otherwise they would not have been clueless. And everyone agrees that Herath is not as much a threat as Murali. So, Go figure who is to blame for not being able to read the doosra? Players or the person(s) who should have instructed them on the finer points of sri lankan spin? if our players need to be spoonfed everytime then so be it. Until the next generation comes of age, this is what we have to deal with. If preparation is the key to our success, then who is to blame for not having adequate preparation? Surely not the players who do what they are told by our father figure!

Edited on, September 15, 2005, 1:44 AM GMT, by AussieBloke.
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  #34  
Old September 14, 2005, 09:06 PM
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James90 James90 is offline
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Our team lost 18/122
That's just disgusting and there's nothing the selectors could have done as I believe it was the best XI was put out on the park. From there the batsmen took a nosedive.

You are right in the lack of reseach and dedication put in my the players. It really is a worry that the only players who take their job seriously fight for the same position (Mashud and Rahim). The players are to blame. The team management have been trying hard to prepare them, training them hard and doing everything possible to groom them into patient test players. Then they go out in the middle and swing widly from ball one.

It's been the dream of these players from a young age to play for their country and they did the hard work to get there. But really, that's only the beginning. Most of them feel satisfied with that and aim for mediocrity, just doing enough to keep their name in the XI. The players don't work hard enough, don't play for the TEAM and don't do the research required.

Even Mohammad Rafique who was probably our best performer in the test isn't a good enough team player. You can't go mouthing off and abusing fellow players and staff and causing disharmony in the team.

When Mohammad Ashraful scored the century against Australia he didn't know it was only the second ODI century for Bangladesh. Anyone of us here could have told him that yet a lot of the team don't know about previous achievements and opposition players.

100% Player's Fault
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  #35  
Old September 14, 2005, 10:30 PM
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jabbar jabbar is offline
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Ashraful. His careless shot in the second innings was totally childish and uncalled for.

Why do I put all the blame on Ash's little shoulders? It si because he has the talent and ability to play well, and HE is responsible to make use of that talent and lead his team by example. It is up to all the players with talent to do so, but I target Ash most of all.
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  #36  
Old September 14, 2005, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jabbar
Ashraful. His careless shot in the second innings was totally childish and uncalled for.

Why do I put all the blame on Ash's little shoulders? It si because he has the talent and ability to play well, and HE is responsible to make use of that talent and lead his team by example. It is up to all the players with talent to do so, but I target Ash most of all.
Even SL captain mentioned ASH name for the collasp of BD 1st innings.After that rest of the innings were under par and misserable.Very painful to us watching them going in and out in that quick fassion.In one occation tv could not finish showing the replay of a wicket before falling another wicket . What a pitty.I am just hang in there for a good day.
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  #37  
Old September 14, 2005, 11:49 PM
Dadababu Dadababu is offline
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No one is to blame.
This side has not many players who can play a long innings,they are limited by thier abilities.

After all test cricket demands some class and a minimum technical excellence. They are not upto the mark.

All I am expecting in the second test is another innings defeat. I wish I was proved worng.

But if one sets the expectations too high from a less than ordinary side, one can be let down easily.
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  #38  
Old September 14, 2005, 11:53 PM
ajithlalm ajithlalm is offline
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Someone has to get 100 and has to play long innings in the second test. I hope Murali and Chaminda Vaas will be rested in the second test. heehhehehe... only way to not to loose game is to bat atleast one day and half each innings and totally batting for 150 overs each innings. If they could do it, they could get good score and probably win the game or draw the game.
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  #39  
Old September 15, 2005, 12:45 AM
aosaif aosaif is offline
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To all of you,

most of you are suffering from a rigid belief that we will NOT do well in our next test match. You're pulling all sorts of reasons from here and there. The only ones I agree with are the one's analyzing what our batsmen did wrong against sri lankan bowlers.

If we did well in this match, we'd be saying different things in this thread, i'm sure!

I don't think it's anybody's fault. I feel bangladesh just had a bad test match, and that's gonna happen pretty often during these early years of our test-playing legacy.

What's most important now, and what i'm worried most about, is how the batsmen are gonna recover - mentally. They embaressed themselves because of their wrong mind-set, and now they are low on confidence, which is the lynch-pin of a batsman's mind-set. Even bashar seems very worried. I really hope he doesn't crack.

If the batsmen go out and play positive, BUT take their time to accumulate runs (like the lankans did), then i think our next test match will be much much better. They need to do this repeatedly, and one big problem is that if one batsman does well, then all of them think it's time to bring out the big guns. They waste confidence. Confidence should be used to trust yourself, that you can get the runs, slow and steady, everytime you go out there. It's not supposed to prompt you to pull out your 5-star bling bat.

if you think i'm being rather positive....let me tell u....i'm feeling pretty sad about it all. I wish i could trust our players to forget about it all and re-start positive.
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  #40  
Old September 15, 2005, 01:23 AM
One World One World is offline
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Posititve thinking is also a matter of practice. Seems lack of practice both mentally and physically is creating layers of clouds over the sunny sky.

If each of our players could just once understood the depth of being able to play a TEST match. Neverthless to say many thousands of cricketers to date far better in skill and technique compared to them has only dreamt of it all over their career and never got a chance.
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  #41  
Old September 15, 2005, 03:13 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Since Bangladesh is a test playing country ....

When we play against AUS ...
There must be Bret lee, Mcgrath, Warne ....
The pitch must be fast, hard and lot of bounce ....
The condition must be too hot?

When we play against ENG ...
There must be Harmison, Flintoff, Jones ....
The pitch must be green, wet and lot of swing ....
The condition must be too cold?

When we play against SL ...
There must be Muruli, Vass ....
The pitch must be slow and lot of spin ....
The condition must be Like BD?

When we play against IND ...
There must be Pathan, Kumble, Shing ....
The pitch must be slow and flat or some spin ....
The condition must be Like BD?

When we play against PAK ...
There must be Shoaib, Sami, Kaneria ....
The pitch must slow and flat or some spin ....
The condition must be Like BD or bit hot?

When we play against NZ ...
There must be Bond, Vettori, oram ....
The pitch must be fast, hard and bouncy ....
The condition must be Like hot and cold?

When we play against SA ...
There must be Pollock, Ntini ....
The pitch must be fast, hard and bouncy ....
The condition must be Like playing in desert?

When we play against WI ...
There must be Best, Taylor, Edwards ....
The pitch must be slow and flat or some spin ....
The condition must be Like hell?

When we play against ZIM ...
There must be Mahwire, Blignaut, Streak ....
The pitch must be green, swing, some spin ....
The condition must be Like playing in jungle?

( I am not sure about all those pitch and condition though...)

These are never should be the reason of our repeated innings defeat or all out for 86! These are all bout bowlers, pitch and condition, notice that world class batsmans are not included. if we think these are the reason of our failure, then we never should be playing TEST cricket in the first place. So make it straight, we can not play them is NOT the reason or excuse, why we can not play them IS the reason. Those who are responsible to make / teach ARE to be blamed first. Because those players we have now is NOT that worst that the result suggest, and Bashar is right on his comment.

Some of us are suggesting that our player should research or analyze opposition individually! I doubt how many of our players have that RESOURCE and ACCESS like we do here on this forum. There might be NONE who ever used computer except using e-mail. I seriously doubt whether our coach or management did the same or least research / analyze on SL recent tri nation series, and had some brief of video lesson to our players. They should be doing this regularly during the preparation of every tour and somebody should take a close look what is the ACTUAL ACTIVITY of our preparation before every series, and make sure that those research, video session and practices are NOT becoming a PHOTO SESSION or CEREMONY before the series. After all research or analyze opposition is a TOP priority job of management not individual players.

One more thing which bothers me ... I am not watching every match on TV, but I saw couple of time recently Dav is not sitting in the middle with the players, when they are straggling in the field. In last match I saw him sitting alone somewhere and reading newspaper when we lost Nafees and Ash in second innings. He should be there with the players giving one or two instruction to the player, who is going into the field for bat at that crucial moment.
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  #42  
Old September 15, 2005, 04:48 AM
amim amim is offline
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Ashraful's technique leaves a lot to be desired. You can forgive Nafees the way he got out but not Ashraful because he has been playing for a number of years now and if he didnt learn in all these years ... specially being from the sub-continent then he will never learn.

Only Bashar showed that he can bat. Aftab's always good against quick bowlers but a shocker against spinners.

Anywyay i was happy that Shahadat justified his selection. I am nost sure how they rated his performance ..... but i was happy because in slow Srilankan pitches he was bowling ok. He will obviously need to learn a lot. I mean if Australia can afford to have tait by dropping Gillespie then we can drop some of our slow bowlers. Obviously Shahadat being 19 is full of non-sense .... he should be as old as Tait if not older. Anyway we should also know that Ashraful is 25 not 21 as few might suggest. Anyway age is not the issue here ... all these guys are grown up cricketers and they should be treated as employees of BCB and if the performance is below average then they should be dropped. Ashraful did the same thing in tests again England anyway .... he never produced results. Even Mashfiqur Rahim would have done a better job in these slow pitches.

Anyway all the best wishes for the next test match .... all we want is to play into the 5th day.
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  #43  
Old September 15, 2005, 04:50 AM
amim amim is offline
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I think Australia got to play 5 test matches and many matches before that and though they lost against us ... they were able to raise the standard and compete well against England .... but we only got 2 test matches but that's because ...we have been performing so poorly.

If we cant perform well then we will never get more than 2 test mathces in Australia and England.
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  #44  
Old September 15, 2005, 05:10 AM
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tarifmahmud tarifmahmud is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by tarifmahmud
if they can bat aggressively and put some big 1st innings total, the mach will at least not be one-sided.

Sorry, but I can not agree with you on this. In test cricket, there is no aggressive batting unless you are Australia and England. We are not at that stage yet. Look at SL'n middle order innings.
+KC Sangakkara 30 (82)
TT Samaraweera 78 (198)
DPMD Jayawardene 63 (120)

Certainly I do not see any aggressive batting. Test Cricket is patience. That gave us 155/2. Our boys need to learn that.


...


Dont you think we should learn from the top teams not the bottom ones and if Aus/Eng can play agressive test cricket why not us or some another country. I think Ashes has set a new test cricket model and rest just should follow that.
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  #45  
Old September 15, 2005, 05:11 AM
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tarifmahmud tarifmahmud is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by tarifmahmud
if they can bat aggressively and put some big 1st innings total, the mach will at least not be one-sided.

Sorry, but I can not agree with you on this. In test cricket, there is no aggressive batting unless you are Australia and England. We are not at that stage yet. Look at SL'n middle order innings.
+KC Sangakkara 30 (82)
TT Samaraweera 78 (198)
DPMD Jayawardene 63 (120)

Certainly I do not see any aggressive batting. Test Cricket is patience. That gave us 155/2. Our boys need to learn that.


...


Dont you think we should learn from the top teams not the bottom ones and if Aus/Eng can play agressive test cricket why not us or some another country. I think Ashes has set a new test cricket model and rest just should follow that.
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  #46  
Old September 15, 2005, 05:51 AM
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fwullah fwullah is offline
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Quote:
No one is to blame.
I couldn't agree with Dadababu's last point. Our players have the ability to stay at the wicket for at least 50 overs in two innings on the trot, if not for 100 overs, courtesy of playing so many ODIs.
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  #47  
Old September 15, 2005, 09:30 PM
AussieBloke AussieBloke is offline
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We have been PLEADING in this forum for a change of gameplan/strategy from our coach/selectors/management regarding how to prepare our batsmen and bowlers. Not that anyone is listening. The old and tired way of our coach is SIMPLY NOT WORKING. Our coach needs to look into the technical details of the players, devise ways to resolve their flaws, instruct/show them how to play long innings etc.

Aus coach John Buchanan is in a similar situation. He is mainly a motivational coach. Didnt have to do much technical work with the team members. Introduced initiatives like poetry reading. As long as Aus was winning, poetry reading sounded so poetic. Now after the ashes series defeat there are questions whether his contract will be renewed or not (based on reality, not emotion). Here is an extract from cricinfo where few suggestions have been put forward for Buchanan in case he is retained as the Aus coach.

Quote:
The Courier-Mail reported three suggestions for a new model if Buchanan is retained, including telling him to change his managing methods, hiring batting and bowling specialists to work with a head coach, or employing him as a manager with a hands-on coach underneath. England showed their forward-thinking by using Troy Cooley as a bowling advisor and the reverse-swing and team attack was crucial to winning the Ashes.
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/aust...ry/219385.html

So if Aus being the best team in the world can think in this line after just one ashes defeat in 16 years, I find it absolutely preposterous that our coach/selectors/management cant even contemplate in this line. God save BD team!
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  #48  
Old September 15, 2005, 09:59 PM
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CricTiger CricTiger is offline
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Whenever we play against other countries we some how helped players get back their forms or make some unknown a hero .Have you ever wonder why this has been happening with BD for a Long time? Here is a Short list from my memory

1)England tour –Trescothick
2)Zim Series – Taibu
3)Pakistan Series – Yaheer Hamid, Kaneria

My question is why its always them not us? Is this?

1)Because others are much more stronger than us and disciplined
2)We are mentally weak and feel insecured in the field.
3)We have inferiority complex and thus cannot compete in this level.
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  #49  
Old September 15, 2005, 10:04 PM
SS SS is offline
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this is just a joke the way they bat...they should be called pussy cat instead of tigers..shameless they will never learn and apparently will turn like our beloved political leaders and law makers who don't care for dignity rather care for money. These players should be fined no matter what, and also need to go through mental block removal boot camp.
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  #50  
Old September 15, 2005, 11:46 PM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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i belive the Government of Bangladesh is to blame, if anybody.

these guys should play on the front foot, as zobair and others pointed out. other than that, it was just another day at the office, someone will score a big one soon, we'll forget this and move on. remember canada? nothing can be worse....
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