What went wrong in the Lord's

[chinaman]

What went wrong in the Lord's

So we lost again and with a big margin, not to mention, within three days. Of course we are disappointed. Who doesn't like to see his team compete to a minimum?

Why our team failed to put up some fight, what really went wrong? We may never know the correct answer but with some thoughts along with media reports, audio / video / text coverage, it is not very hard to get some clue.

The forum once again shows parades of endless negative comments, from droping Ashraful to sacking Bashar to install Rahim as captain to striping status to selective non-sylhetism and what not.

Look, there must be a pretty good reason why they call it "English condition". There must be something in it's definition that makes those grounds and environment unique. Our players just had a real taste of it. It will take more exposures for our boys to get the hang of it. The ball behaves differently with different bowlers. The pitch is fast and bouncy unlike any other the boys have had experience of. The ball regularly comes at the throat of the batsmen who are already disadvantaged by their own height.

Our batsmen just had a practical exam about that mysterious condition. Expectedly, they didn't do well. Nothing really went drastically wrong.

A solid professional always has extra cache of reserve to handle unexpected situations. Our younger boys slowly but surely continue to build up such reserves while the more matured faces are too matured to risk remodeling. But nonetheless the boys continue to run short in the cache.

The batsmen could not read the ball with confidence while the bowlers struggle to find the right spot to make an impact. Apart from raw speed, the bowlers were left with nothing much to offer, let alone controling and fine tuning.

And the usual blues were there too. Poor shot selection, frequent misjudgement, coarse reflex, nervousness all were there to perfectly repeat the ever known vicious cycle.

But let's be honest, no one can significantly improve these factors overnight. Besides, I think the pre-tension played a huge role to negate any improvement there might be, pretty early on in an innings, more so in an unfamiliar condition.

Ofcourse there are personal limitations too. Let's take Bashar for example. He has been out too often playing similar shots. That seems suicidal. But does he has other options to go by? Probably not. If he has to abandon the pull shots, he might find it even harder for the runs to come by. And he is not a good candidate for drastic remodeling either. We also have some compulsive hitters as well as irregular cool heads. By hey, this is our lunch for the time being.

There is no point in claiming the heads, we simply do not have better choices. What we have in abundance is the potential. With the young talented bunch, if we can cut down the pre-tense and stick to the basics, we can only go forward with each exposure.

There was no surprise in the first match. Seven more to go.

[mwrkhan]

Another innings loss within three days. Our most common result, representing over 60% of our losses to date. So nothing new here. Certainly no surprise.

[Spitfire_x86]

:up: to chinaman

[James90]

In the Lords?

[Mridul]

Its normal for Bangladesh...actually nothing went wrong......the fact is BD players are not world class yet(not good enough to compete in international cricket level)..

...though some players are talented......it does not mean they are world class or close to world class......there are (bhuri bhuri) talented players in club cricket of other coutries.....but very few make it to the international level after proving themselves........

....in the case of Bangladesh "Whoever is talented...let him play International Cricket" [end quote]......and this is the biggest problem.

[Lions_heart]

Hi Chinaman, you article was good and I'm agree with you 80%. You are right about conditions, British media and high expectation - all playing its part to our terrible downfall at Lords.

But what was painful to watch was that, our batsmen doesn't know the basics of cricket. For example, the way Nafis Iqbal got out in both innings was horrifying. not only Nafis, most of our batsmen doesn't know how to use feets (bach foot and front foot shots) to play shots. There were so little EYE-HAND-HEAD movement when playing shots. We still play like amateurs, playing away from the body, poking the balls etc etc.

we re playing test cricket for 5 years now and and we had great cricket coaches like Gordon and Dev, and if we still can't learn the basic technical aspects of batting and bowling, then we might not have a good future and things might not improve a lot and we will be defeated like that often.

[mahbubH]

>> There were so little EYE-HAND-HEAD movement when playing shots.

lol.

You mean something wrong with the EYE --> HEAD or/and HEAD --> HAND processes!!

[oracle]

thanks for the short an sharp outline. I am still waiting for the lowdown from Faruk. Have'nt read anything that could soothe my nerves.:)

[chinaman]

Trust me, they know the basics. It is the reserve that they have yet to expand on to accomodate themselves quickly and smoothly on new and / or unfamiliar conditions.

Besides, they have yet to conquer the pre-tension that makes them unstable at the beginning. Mis-judgement, rush shot etc are the products of this pre-tension which sets the tone for the familiar top-order-collapse.

Pressure inevitably mounts for the middle order as an added burden.

Both the pre-tension and pressure ease up on the lower middle orders and tailenders as they discover in no time that the match is far out of the hand and there's nothing much to lose anymore. At this time, they can play some fearless game.

These situations are pretty much comparable to the students about to face the exam.

I'm confident, if the boys can get rid of the butterflies in their stomach, they'll easily be able to make their presence felt in any situation.

Edited on, May 29, 2005, 3:34 PM GMT, by chinaman.

[Mridul]

Originally posted by chinaman
Trust me, they know the basics. It is the reserve that they have yet to expand on to accomodate themselves quickly and smoothly on new and / or unfamiliar conditions.


They may know the basics....but there are not good at them yet....and the condition was not unfamiliar....last year summer BD U-19 played 3 youth test matches against england U-19...so the condition is not unfamiliar at all for these players

1. Nafis Iqbal
2. Aftab Ahmed
3. Mushfiqur Rahim
4. Shahadat Hossain
5. Enamul jnr.
6. Shahriar Nafees
7. Talha Jubair

these players actually played youth test matches in England

rest of the players may not have played 1st class matches in England condition b4 but they have played ODIs in English condition

NB: [wow...7 players of the current squad actually from BD U-19 of last year......I see none from Eng U-19 playing International cricket]

[sadi]

good point...see the thing is....we dun have a stable team yet.... england has all these proven test cricketer and then can slowly take their under 19 cricketers into the test team...but since our reserve is so low....we basically have to go from under 19 to test cricket.... our domestic cricket standard is very low and we basically depend on our age level team rather than domestic cricket to produce the cricketers...

[Bangla amar Maa]

The condition of England ......... it's too hard for our batsmen to play in that kinda condition ......

[Rubu]

Question: I'm more than sure that if u put kenya now in front of this english team in lords tomorrow they will do better than us. (i know its a pure speculation but their record shows that). why?

[chinaman]

Originally posted by Mridul
last year summer BD U-19 played 3 youth test matches against england U-19...so the condition is not unfamiliar at all for these players

Someone from England would be in a better position to reflect on the conditional variations on May vs August.

While we are at it let's consider the grounds too. U-19 played in Headingley, Taunton, Sophia Gardens and County Ground, Hove.

[chinaman]

Originally posted by AgentSmith
Question: I'm more than sure that if u put kenya now in front of this english team in lords tomorrow they will do better than us. (i know its a pure speculation but their record shows that). why?

Agent, please take a 2 days off from all cricket related activities. We miss our old mis-spelling guru pretty much. :)

[Ejaj]

Well said Chinaman. Totally agree with you.. Hope the boys , get some confidance back. They dont need to become someone extraordinary. They just need to play upto their ability and cool head.

[Mridul]

Originally posted by AgentSmith
Question: I'm more than sure that if u put kenya now in front of this english team in lords tomorrow they will do better than us. (i know its a pure speculation but their record shows that). why?


I agree...and the reason is...kenyan players are more talented than BD players....and they learn from their mistakes.

[bdboy]

I have no doubt about our boys. Look at Monir(he not our sp. batsman), the way he played with Masud that's not bad. Atleast he tried to keep his head cool and give support masud as much as he can. Most of the time their body movement , footwork was fine. Coz they had nothing in their head but stay on the pitch and result of the match was decided long before.

So i think if our boys can keep their head cool and do what they can within their limitation, we wouldn't be embrasssed again at Riverside.

Support our boys and they need your help to perform their best!
Don't act like 18 Ashes looser (and another on the way) bigmouth English Media.

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 12:30 AM GMT, by bdboy.

[Rabz]

What went wrong ???

the right thread should be WHAT WENT RIGHT in the lord's test...

in that way..we'll have nothing to write...

thus saving our time and energy...and the effort to even bother to think of writing something down...

also from next time..no one would even bother to see any bangladesh match...(not even any utterly most crazed bd crickt fan)...

and that way..our cricketers can save themselves from further humiliation in public...cuz..whoz to watch it ??

and they can also ride the bandwagon of learning curves for the rest of thier lives...

for god's sake..im tired our learning curves and participation honors...

not only in cricket...in any sport...

"ongshogrohon e muul uddeshsho"
how long we gonna beat that drum...we've bn beatin it since 72....

we send more officials than athlets in olympics...
we go and conceive 10 goals in a football wc qualifier...
our athlets have to write in bonds about not runnin away during any overseas tours...
our officials steals towel from toilet...
our athlets jumps in the pool even before the whistle and gets disqualified (as if she'd hv qualified anyway)
our runners dont even know where his hit is taking place..
national game kabaddi ? we cudnt even win a single gold medal in that game..not even in saf games...
and after tryin 20 million times ...we won like 1 gold in soccer...and may be champoin once ??
we've produced only one or two (?) gm in chess...among 150 millions....

and then came cricket...another game we play....
the only game we play where we even get the chance to stand with other top sporting nations of that field in the same room to take a pic....

but we play only to get whipped by everyone....

mates..the question should not be what went wrong at lords..but
whats wrong with our total sports arena...??

im not sayin we'd b world's best...but atleast we can stop ourselves from being humiliated by other nations everytime we go play some game in internationla level....

or else soon we'd b known to the whole world not only as the nation of poors with flood and cyclone..but also as the nation who is [edit] at every sport they play.... and just merely fills the gap...

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 12:25 PM GMT, by chinaman.

[PoorFan]

Everything went wrong, except nothing went right. They way they played two innings, is simply beyond any excuse, explanation ro even any condition. No one even seemed to try for a partnership, except Javed, Mushfique and Mashud. We are supposed to play a test!

[chinaman]

Originally posted by Sydney
..thus saving our time and energy...and the effort to even bother to think of writing something down...

also from next time..no one would even bother to see any bangladesh match..

and that way..our cricketers can save themselves from further humiliation in public...cuz..whoz to watch it ??..

for god's sake..im tired our learning curves and participation honors...

So, you want your kids to have master's degree, perhaps PhD even before they go to the elementary school? Thus saving you time and energy to correct their mis-spellings, saving you from humuliation from their exam blues, saving you from being sick and tired of the learning curves and parental participation honor?

Very nice. Very nice and rich indded. If you do find such short-cuts, please share with us.

[bdboy]

Everything went wrong. so what we can do now? except blame each other for this and that? If they don't know anything at all how come it was possible to come close to win in Pakistan. What you do say about Aus, WI and Zim tour. Who dose not want to play his best for his country. But they didn't.

When they well. You guys will start dancing again.

So if you share their joys when they do the best. You have to share their failure or badtime too.

If you don't. That's simply UNFAIR!!

[insideedge]

What went wrong in the Lord's? Same things that have gone wrong in the earlier tests.

What the BD players need is to play more matches with first class teams and A teams. These are the equivalents of school and college education before one can go for PHD ( test cricket). Just find out how many matches BD ( the test team) has played with first class teams and A teams and what have been the results.

BD test team have played about a dozen such matches and they have lost most of these matches. So unless the BD team regularly beats these teams, hopes of beating ( or even competing against test teams will remain a pipe dream.

Unless BD players pass the school (i.e. beat FC teams regularly) and College ( beat A teams of test nations regularly), they will remain hopelessly outclassed at the test match level.

So far BD have not been able to win against a single first class opposition. In many of this matches, they have suffered big defeats. One needs to set the record straight there. It is only then that one can talk of things going wrong at the test level. Going by records, BD goes wrong even in FC matches.

[chinaman]

Originally posted by insideedge
So far BD have not been able to win against a single first class opposition.

Forget about national team, even our High Performance team (A team) comprehensibly defeated Zim A team not too long ago.

I perfectly got your point and have pretty good idea where you're coming from. Let the experts say whatever pleases them. We all have some idea how other test nations were dealt with in their early days. It is just that the media wasn't advanced enough as it is today, to capture the knee-jerks of those times.

Our infrastructure is in place to produce the future PhDs. Time and again, we proved to have enormous growth potential in this sports. It is this potential that is counted towards gaining the elite status. It was like an investment from ICC's part. Some morons in the name of coaching drove us backwards but the return is not too far away.

Talking about PhDs, they too need some intriduction and orientation in a new placement.

The Riverside test might even be harder than the Lord's. But that is part of the inevitable bumpy ride. It's a ride nonethelees, so enjoy as much as you can for now if you want to.

[Mridul]

Originally posted by insideedge
What went wrong in the Lord's? Same things that have gone wrong in the earlier tests.

What the BD players need is to play more matches with first class teams and A teams. These are the equivalents of school and college education before one can go for PHD ( test cricket). Just find out how many matches BD ( the test team) has played with first class teams and A teams and what have been the results.

BD test team have played about a dozen such matches and they have lost most of these matches. So unless the BD team regularly beats these teams, hopes of beating ( or even competing against test teams will remain a pipe dream.

Unless BD players pass the school (i.e. beat FC teams regularly) and College ( beat A teams of test nations regularly), they will remain hopelessly outclassed at the test match level.

So far BD have not been able to win against a single first class opposition. In many of this matches, they have suffered big defeats. One needs to set the record straight there. It is only then that one can talk of things going wrong at the test level. Going by records, BD goes wrong even in FC matches.

u r absoloutly right......and this is the biggest problem....the only way we can improve our cricket when our team will play often against other A teams in different conditions.....otherwise we have to see these kind of humilation another 2-4 years...or may be more....our BCB heads should really think about it seriously

[Bangla amar Maa]

Can anyone tell me what went right at Lords ......... Everything was wrong .

[Faisal]

well, amra kobe vhalo khelsi? always to airkom khela dheksi ami bd er.... so nothing went wrong.. amra just aktu besi asa kori team theke... give them 5 years then asa kora ocit, donnobad!

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 5:21 PM GMT, by Faisal.

[Ahsan]

Originally posted by chinaman
What went wrong in the Lord's

So we lost again and with a big margin, not to mention, within three days. Of course we are disappointed. Who doesn't like to see his team compete to a minimum?

Why our team failed to put up some fight, what really went wrong? We may never know the correct answer but with some thoughts along with media reports, audio / video / text coverage, it is not very hard to get some clue.

The forum once again shows parades of endless negative comments, from droping Ashraful to sacking Bashar to install Rahim as captain to striping status to selective non-sylhetism and what not.

Look, there must be a pretty good reason why they call it "English condition". There must be something in it's definition that makes those grounds and environment unique. Our players just had a real taste of it. It will take more exposures for our boys to get the hang of it. The ball behaves differently with different bowlers. The pitch is fast and bouncy unlike any other the boys have had experience of. The ball regularly comes at the throat of the batsmen who are already disadvantaged by their own height.

Our batsmen just had a practical exam about that mysterious condition. Expectedly, they didn't do well. Nothing really went drastically wrong.

A solid professional always has extra cache of reserve to handle unexpected situations. Our younger boys slowly but surely continue to build up such reserves while the more matured faces are too matured to risk remodeling. But nonetheless the boys continue to run short in the cache.

The batsmen could not read the ball with confidence while the bowlers struggle to find the right spot to make an impact. Apart from raw speed, the bowlers were left with nothing much to offer, let alone controling and fine tuning.

And the usual blues were there too. Poor shot selection, frequent misjudgement, coarse reflex, nervousness all were there to perfectly repeat the ever known vicious cycle.

But let's be honest, no one can significantly improve these factors overnight. Besides, I think the pre-tension played a huge role to negate any improvement there might be, pretty early on in an innings, more so in an unfamiliar condition.

Ofcourse there are personal limitations too. Let's take Bashar for example. He has been out too often playing similar shots. That seems suicidal. But does he has other options to go by? Probably not. If he has to abandon the pull shots, he might find it even harder for the runs to come by. And he is not a good candidate for drastic remodeling either. We also have some compulsive hitters as well as irregular cool heads. By hey, this is our lunch for the time being.

There is no point in claiming the heads, we simply do not have better choices. What we have in abundance is the potential. With the young talented bunch, if we can cut down the pre-tense and stick to the basics, we can only go forward with each exposure.

There was no surprise in the first match. Seven more to go.

good read...this shows what a leader should be. what his responsibilities and commitment in an adverse situation. yeah, i am talking about chinaman. Only I wish Bashar as our captain thinks/acts this way.

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 6:49 PM GMT, by ISmacker.

[chinaman]

Originally posted by Mridul
..and this is the biggest problem....the only way we can improve our cricket when our team will play often against other A teams in different conditions.....otherwise we have to see these kind of humilation another 2-4 years...

Now I think I've to go on offense.

What is the biggest problem?
What proof do you have that this is the only way we can improve?
What respect to we hold that you are compelled to label every lost match as humiliating knowing well that it really might take another 5 yrs or so to be truely competative?

Playing Farouque is fine. Playing Whatmore is even ok once in a while. But playing ICC from the comfort of a bedroom is anything but bright.

[FaltuRidwanBhai]

jaihok,
koekdin anondo ebong camping ar por kintu abar fire elam. jaihok, bangladesher performance niye kintu ami khub akta hotash hoi nai. karon eta onekta nirdharito chilo. airokom ulta palta khelowar niye akta ochena poribeshe khelle ar theke beshi kichu asha kora jai na. dhannabad.

[mwrkhan]

Originally posted by chinaman
Now I think I've to go on offense.

What is the biggest problem?
What proof do you have that this is the only way we can improve?
What respect to we hold that you are compelled to label every lost match as humiliating knowing well that it really might take another 5 yrs or so to be truely competative?

Playing Farouque is fine. Playing Whatmore is even ok once in a while. But playing ICC from the comfort of a bedroom is anything but bright.

There are losses and then there are losses.

It has been five years now. Still no-one, least of all the BD fans expect us to win or even to draw (think about it). So losses are still pretty much par for the course.

Nobody labeled the loss against Pakistan humiliating, nor even the losses against Australia or the Windies as particularly humiliating. Why? Simply because there were stretches during the games when our team displayed a modicum of competitiveness.

Even in the Lord's test, all it took was an hour or so of sensible batting by Mashud and the condescension eased off a little.

Even you must admit, the threshold of expectation for BD cannot be set any lower, yet the team manages somehow to undermine even that.

I cannot recall an instance when the opposition utterly toyed with us in this fashion (perhaps the Colombo test where we got out for 90 after conceding 550 and a couple of the SL batsmen decided to take a brake out of pity, but that was during the bad old days I suppose).

Given what is going on. Given that the gulf between us and just about every one else is plain to see. Given that the team is fundamentally incapable of adapting to circumstance, just what is to be gained by continuing to plod through the deep end?

Shouldn't we learn to wade before we can swim? It seems to me that your belief in our cause being best served by persisting with the current status-quo is a little headstrong. I for one am willing to entertain fresh ideas at this stage of our predicament. If that means a period of playing second best teams, so be it.

[Bangla amar Maa]

Originally posted by Faisal
well, amra kobe vhalo khelsi? always to airkom khela dheksi ami bd er.... so nothing went wrong.. amra just aktu besi asa kori team theke... give them 5 years then asa kora ocit, donnobad!

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 5:21 PM GMT, by Faisal.

bhai aar koto dibo ......... 5 years to 10 years hoiya jaitasey .......... Don't talk like our politicians .so , when we come to power then we do that , do this ......... (Just Kidding)

[FaltuRidwanBhai]

Originally posted by Faisal
well, amra kobe vhalo khelsi? always to airkom khela dheksi ami bd er.... so nothing went wrong.. amra just aktu besi asa kori team theke... give them 5 years then asa kora ocit, donnobad!

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 5:21 PM GMT, by Faisal.

jaihok,
amar kintu mone hoi apni thiki bolechen. ontoto aro kichu shomoy kintu amader opekkha kortai hobe. ai teamta kintu akhono notun. sachin dravid tendulkarra kintu akdine bhalo khela shuru korenni. onek bochor ak shathe khelar por tader moddhe kintu akta shomzhota gore uthe. ebong tarpor kintu tara khela shuru kore. dhannabad.

[chinaman]

Originally posted by mwrkhan
Given that the gulf between us and just about every one else is plain to see. Given that the team is fundamentally incapable of adapting to circumstance...

I for one am willing to entertain fresh ideas at this stage of our predicament. If that means a period of playing second best teams, so be it.

Its plain to see the gulf becoming narrower, as you mentioned our performance against Australia, Pakistan and West Indies. We already closed the gulf with Zimbabwe.

Adapting to circumstances is all about the reserve I talked about in the first post of this thread.

Fresh ideas are welcome, backward ideas are not.

[FaltuRidwanBhai]

jahok,
england ar poristhiti kintu akdom bhinno. gotobar kintu west indies ekhane 47 run a all out hoye giyechilo etodin dhore khelar por ebong eto bhalo khelowar thakar poro. orthat etai proman kore je england ar poristhite khelar jonno kintu akta bhinno bhabe khelte hoy jeta kintu akhon buzhe uthte pareni amader playerra.

[mwrkhan]

Originally posted by chinaman
Fresh ideas are welcome, backward ideas are not.

I don't consider a spell out of the fire a backward step.

[chinaman]

What you are not making a part of the equation is the fact that there is no ICC or fixed 'calendar' for the second best teams (or A teams). For your argument's sake, let say ICC imposed a one year off. Who you gonna play? A teams from other countries are not dying to invite you and pay the relevent costs. Besides, how many A teams are currently available for you to send even an invitation? Even with the ODI status, the World Cup semifinalist Kenya found it harder than rock to manage just one more ODI, with anyone.

See, what you suggested is neither an option nor a way forward for us. We should not jump with anything we read or hear without doing the homework, without knowing the finer prints. And you wouldn't find good news in finer prints.

[mwrkhan]

Re: Chinaman

A spell out of the fire does not necessarily mean a complete cessation of test cricket.

First we have to recuse ourselves from the 5 year cycle of playing all test teams. It is precisely because of this that we are compelled to play the likes of Australia, South Africa and England, even if it is on an away basis, without being ready for it.

We would do well to play many more games with our sub-continental neighbours. The fact that there is no fixed calendar for 'A' teams is excellent. It would allow us to arrange 'A' tours taking into account our own expediencies. Remember, our 'A' team is actually scheduled to tour England this very season. For experience of overseas conditions we could send near full strength sides as 'A' sides. Absolutely the details can be worked out. Precisely because the stronger test playing countries believe this is what BD ought to be doing now. They would be considerate if we make the case using their own arguments.

We can continue playing tests at home, principally with our neighbours. If test teams from farther afield can be persuaded to tour once in a while, so much the better. For now, I won't be unduly bothered if the likes of Australia, NZ, England or SA don't visit our shores for any length of time.

Mainly play tests at home, tour as 'A' sides to gain experience. Play tests more infrequently. But above all GET INTO THE HABIT OF WINNING! With winning comes confidence and an erosion of pre-tension.

SL and Zimbabwe were playing FC cricket, hosting touring XI's and sending out representative teams for AGES before they were granted test status. SL and Zimbabwe were the dominant non-test sides before they were granted test status. I am sure even the most die-hard BD fan cannot say the same about us when we were a non-test side.

All I am saying is that we need more nuts and bolts experience which could be obtained outside the glare of the elite limelight. All it needs is willpower on our part.

[Faisal]

FRB bhai, asole sotti khota bolte ki... amra bangali ra aktu besi dream dheki... amader jototuku shamortho tar ceye besi asa kori.. aitai amader dosh.. by the way, 1st test karab khelse tai bole amra bolte pari na je bd cricket khelte pare na... aro to amtch ase.. justw ait and see wut happen.... pakistan to westindies er kase 3 din and lunch e lost korsee.. tai bole ki bolmu pakistan cricket khelte apre na? westindies to weak team, anyways... 1 ta match e buja jai na.. so lets see wut happen next..

[chinaman]

Originally posted by mwrkhan
First we have to recuse ourselves from the 5 year cycle of playing all test teams.

As I mentioned earlier, Playing Farouque is fine. Playing Whatmore is even ok once in a while. But playing ICC from the comfort of a bedroom is anything but bright.

We can continue playing tests at home, principally with our neighbours.

Yeah, they will keep their own calendar clean for us.

For experience of overseas conditions we could send near full strength sides as 'A' sides.

No arguing that. But is this what you meant when you said, "..If that means a period of playing second best teams, so be it"?

But above all GET INTO THE HABIT OF WINNING!

Please don't be fooled by the creative writing. Wining is not a habit, it's a product of ability. We may win 100% against the Honk Kong, UAE or the likes over a period of two years exclusively, but we still need way more than just those wins to compete against England.

SL and Zimbabwe were playing FC cricket, hosting touring XI's and sending out representative teams for AGES before they were granted test status. SL and Zimbabwe were the dominant non-test sides before they were granted test status.

We can not change history. What is the point of bringing this up now?

All I am saying is that we need more nuts and bolts experience which could be obtained outside the glare of the elite limelight. All it needs is willpower on our part.

Will is there and the development is underway. We the fans need to be patient and considerate and leave the professionals do the planning. Ofcourse, we will protest if we spot something seriously wrong.

[Akib]

Adding to Chinaman's last remark... we are just slow of the gate. There is no problem with that. Other teams took many years to play well and when they started they didnt play full strength sides. We're facing the second best team in the world at the best form since Bothom and co.

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 11:51 PM GMT, by aka.

[mwrkhan]

Originally posted by chinaman

Yeah, they will keep their own calendar clean for us.

What exactly do you mean by "keeping calendar clean"? Why do calendars have to be cleared to accomodate us? Or are you suggesting that the only reason countries play us is because the ICC schedule compels them to? If this is not an indictment of our cricket then what is? You said it.

No arguing that. But is this what you meant when you said, "..If that means a period of playing second best teams, so be it"?

The local test team i.e. the best team does not play 'A' tourists. Second best teams do. They include the host 'A' team, county sides, state sides, representative XI's etc. So yes, that is exactly what I meant.

Please don't be fooled by the creative writing. Wining is not a habit, it's a product of ability. We may win 100% against the Honk Kong, UAE or the likes over a period of two years exclusively, but we still need way more than just those wins to compete against England.

Beating HK or the UAE all the time may not allow us to win against England but eventually being able to beat our neighbours at test cricket or the 'A' teams of the likes of Australia or SA will give us the wherewithall to compete with England. Where did I ever suggest playing against HK or the UAE anyway?

We can not change history. What is the point of bringing this up now?

If we are constantly churning up history (viz. India and NZ) to put our current performances into perspective then I can certainly bring up history as a pointer to the path we can follow.

[chinaman]

I think I made my points clear. Repeat reading should fill up the gaps if any. Cheers.

[Rabz]

Originally posted by FaltuRidwanBhai
Originally posted by Faisal
well, amra kobe vhalo khelsi? always to airkom khela dheksi ami bd er.... so nothing went wrong.. amra just aktu besi asa kori team theke... give them 5 years then asa kora ocit, donnobad!

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 5:21 PM GMT, by Faisal.

jaihok,
amar kintu mone hoi apni thiki bolechen. ontoto aro kichu shomoy kintu amader opekkha kortai hobe. ai teamta kintu akhono notun. sachin dravid tendulkarra kintu akdine bhalo khela shuru korenni. onek bochor ak shathe khelar por tader moddhe kintu akta shomzhota gore uthe. ebong tarpor kintu tara khela shuru kore. dhannabad.


wait for 5 more years ??

mates..we can give our own team 50 more years to improve..but the whole world wudnt have that patience and would certainly not put up with our failure...

players like bashar, ash, javed, mashud, rafiq have been playin with each other for quite sometimes now...
though the time period is not that big...but they did play a awful number of test matches between them ...

JO 28 tests with an average of 22 !!
HB 35 tests with an average of 34 (great for us)
ASh 26 test with average of 24 !!

now that just doenst sound all right to me...
Bashar is excused , so is rafiq and pilot...

but what about JO or ASH or Aftab whoz got a average of 16 ! and he is one of our middle order....!!!

just a litttle comparison...strauss have an average of 57 !!! from 13 test....

i dont expect our players to be world's best and break bradman's record...

but please dont tell me players like ASH or JO needs even more time to settle down in the game...they played, if im not wrong, against all the other opponents..and by now should have a good idea aboout how to bat against a bowling attack..no matter how good they are...

more importantly..its not the way they bat..its the way they get out...players like bashar...its simply beyond any excuse....

i would say that from JO im hoping for a good innings...from nafees i expect to better as each match progresses..
but from bashar its more like a demand that he plays good...
he is our best batsman...he is our captain...
all our hopes centres around him...

and FRB..as u said...sachin, dravid took time to settle down in the middle..

but they also had a good solid team to progress with...
when they started..india had players like ravi shashtri..ajharuddin..etc..who could make up if they had done bad...

but for our team..if habib plays bad...if ash plays bad..whos to make up??? an innings of 44 by pilot (almost every other time)..doesnt save from humiliation..

i know its a lot to ask from some one every time...
but we are no ordinary team...

no other team goes in the field with the world media and its "greats" tryin to rip them thru...every time....

our backs at the wall...

we just cant afford any more loose games....

im tellin again..if we dont do reasonably good during this tour....

this well could be our last overseas trip...(except zim)...

icc is under a mountain pressure here....

just hope there is a miracle somewhere along the lines...
...who knows...

[chinaman]

Originally posted by Sydney
mates..we can give our own team 50 more years to improve..but the whole world wudnt have that patience and would certainly not put up with our failure...

Hehehe, forget about 5 years, you are not giving even a match break! Weren't you full of praise just a test ago?

Few posts earlier, you mentioned of being tired of learning curves and now you are ready to give 50 years but afraid of world's patience!

Take it easy bro, please take it easy.

[Rabz]

Originally posted by chinaman
Originally posted by Sydney
mates..we can give our own team 50 more years to improve..but the whole world wudnt have that patience and would certainly not put up with our failure...

Hehehe, forget about 5 years, you are not giving even a match break! Weren't you full of praise just a test ago?

Few posts earlier, you mentioned of being tired of learning curves and now you are ready to give 50 years but afraid of world's patience!

Take it easy bro, please take it easy.

I am taking it easy bro...
i am taking it easy...

it just that cant take it any more easier....

yes..i was full of praise of them when they won..
yes..i wrote last few posts with "my spirits flyin high"
and yes,..im also tired of learning curves...

how can u hate someone if you dont love them enough?

in reply to one of ur replies to my previous posts....
when u mentioned about getting a shortcut for our kids to phd and skippin school years...

no im not looking for any shortcut...
neither i hoping for any....

but at the same time...when ur kid does something bad or naughty..u gotta tell them thats not right..u gotta teach them manners and the difference btw right n wrong...

u cant just keep on praising them all the time..
...sometimes u'd hv to take the hard stand and say abt the things thats going wrong...

im not abondoning my team here..im just critical of the way they played their game...

as a supporter ...as a countrymen... i have all the right to do that....

and about patience...if ur kid fails year 1 five times... u'll b runnin about of it too....

im not talkin about winnin matches..
im talkin about a decent fight here....
the ability to make atleast 200 runs in one single innings...
the ability to take the test match to 5th day...

IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK AFTER 5 YEARS ?

if you send ur kid to school......after five years u'd at least expect them to learn the ABCD's....

and no matter how much u believe in ur kid and know about thier talent n luv them to death..
if they keep on failin every time on the finals... ( the one that matters)
the school principal might would have no other choice but to let the kid go...just for others sake...

but still u know ur kid...and u know someday he'll make it...
he'll prove the his school principal wrong..he'll prove his teachers wrong...he'll prove everyone wrong...

and he's gonna make u proud some day...

for ur sake and for all of ours sake...

lets just hope that day is coming soon....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
i understand ur pain...we all suffering the same here...
its just we all are different...and have different ways of dealing with those pains...

thats all....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

im enjoyin this...
any constructive agrument is good....
after all...we all r on the same side...


:fanflag::fanflag::fanflag:

[Faisal]

strange ppl!!! if u dont like it then dont watch it or dont follow it.. simple...

[FaltuRidwanBhai]

Originally posted by Faisal
strange ppl!!! if u dont like it then dont watch it or dont follow it.. simple...

jaihok,
apni kintu thik kotha bolechen. srilanka kintu akdine bissho champion hoinee. tader shai obosthay pouchute kintu onek shomoy legeche. dhannabad.