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Sham
June 18, 2005, 12:51 PM
I would have some very rude words for you lot if I wasn't a member of BanglaCricket staff. But in any case, hide!!

And this is not about Rana, I would have actually played him in this match, but to even think that Rana would replace Ashraful, well, I don't think I need to say how bloody stupid that would be anymore!!

shaoun
June 18, 2005, 12:59 PM
well the way ashraful was performing he should have been dropped. i always thought ashraful is the most talented batsman in our country but the stupit shots he plays and gives his wicket away is why i felt that he shouldnt play. ashraful has proven before that he can score big runs and he did again against the best team is the world. but now the question is how long will we have to wait until he plays another big innins? remember the last one was almost 6 months ago.

BangladeshFan
June 18, 2005, 01:01 PM
I am for rana in place of nazmul, certainly not in place of ash. if ash can play that type of innings one in five, he is still worth keeping in.

chinaman
June 18, 2005, 01:03 PM
Let it go, Sham, please let it go for the win's sake. Be more like a winning fan :)

How's your voice, BTW?

Spitfire_x86
June 18, 2005, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by shaoun
well the way ashraful was performing he should have been dropped. i always thought ashraful is the most talented batsman in our country but the stupit shots he plays and gives his wicket away is why i felt that he shouldnt play. ashraful has proven before that he can score big runs and he did again against the best team is the world. but now the question is how long will we have to wait until he plays another big innins? remember the last one was almost 6 months ago.
6 months not too long, compared to his gap between 1st test century and 2nd test century :lol:

Sham
June 18, 2005, 01:15 PM
Let what go? People give me plenty every chance they get! And I am supposed to let it go after Ashraful scores a century against Australia ? This is payback Aussie style!! Ashraful rules!!!

chinaman
June 18, 2005, 01:29 PM
Alright then, please go on.

I'd request everybody to be civil to one another. Thank you very much.

Spitfire_x86
June 18, 2005, 01:30 PM
Wish he could rule more often! :)

But don't forget Aftab, today he did his duty very well again.

Rubu
June 18, 2005, 01:31 PM
I was not one of them who wanted rana instead of ashraful (i wanted him instead of chacha), still i'm shocked to see this thread. can't you just enjoy a day like this with your fellow bangladesh fan without going behind others?

if u try to enjoy a day like this with everyone forgetting the conflicts your enjoyment will ten fold, trust me.

AsifTheManRahman
June 18, 2005, 01:33 PM
haha...

well i had wanted to play rana in this match, but in place of tushar imran. however, replacing ashraful with rana is by far the most ridiculous thing that anyone can ever come up with. in fact, i too must confess that i was pissed when people even thought of dropping ashraful.

anyways, we're on cloud 9 today. we're untouchables, even if for one day. so i have no complaints! :):):)

DJ Sahastra
June 18, 2005, 01:33 PM
If some maths-wizard on this forum can come up with a predictor then Ashraful should be picked up for matches where's he's gonna score something and dropped for ones in which he's gonna be out cheaply.

Like pick him for a match, see him score a century, then drop him for the next 5 or so and then pick him up again.

Both camps will stay pacified :P

James90
June 18, 2005, 01:36 PM
I am so grateful the selectors didn't listen to me but I still stick by what I said. I seriously think that Rana should have played that game instead of Ashraful. It wasn't a stupid statement, Ashraful had done sweet nothing all series, Rana deserved a place and I thought we were most likely to win with Rana there. How wrong I was, and I'm very glad. At least this statement had basis, unlike my "Bangladesh are going to lose" in the first over of the first day against Zimbabwe

feisal
June 18, 2005, 01:40 PM
the point is between form and class....

some pople just do not have the eyes... for example, the 40 plus aftab scored in ctg.. could tell what his class is.. still the same bunch of people say that " he has to rpove in test matches.." the whole thinking is so much scoreboard oriented.. and that too going to archieve and finding out..

they will never understand the impact of tushar imran's innings today as that eased the pressure and showed that bowlers can be dealt normally..
same vein, King's innings in 79 world cup or Durjoy's innings against scotland.. or even Ashraful's 39 ball 40 in worcster..

class is permanent, and form is temporary...

let us just not go the point of having 5 batsman.. with rana at number 6??? mashud is a reasonable number 7, but just inadequate at number 6..

i also talked about that duck theory.. ref to 4 consecutive ducks to jr waugh and 3 to Ponting... the same people jumped the gun that ashraful is in bad form.. where he was dismissed in 3 good balls.. and gave his wicket away on the only other innings.. and scored runs in between...e day..

Sham
June 18, 2005, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
I was not one of them who wanted rana instead of ashraful (i wanted him instead of chacha), still i'm shocked to see this thread. can't you just enjoy a day like this with your fellow bangladesh fan without going behind others?

if u try to enjoy a day like this with everyone forgetting the conflicts your enjoyment will ten fold, trust me.

Going behind others? Hell no, I am taking people straight on. Actually, the victory is sweet enough as it is, but Ashraful scoring a century is just double sweet, and I need to find some outlet to let loose my joy!! So, I am very much enjoying the day "with" my fellow Bangadesh fans.

feisal
June 18, 2005, 01:45 PM
Rana, definitely is a useful player,and plenty to offer.. but he is just not good enough to be top 6...

as he was not even for the weak abahani batting line up...

he has good sense, so cabe agood number 7 or 8.. so his inclusion in team has nothing to do with the top 6 batsman.. even austrlia enjoyed having no less than 7 specialist batsman..

rafiq
June 18, 2005, 01:47 PM
You guys should realize we need a core team of 13-14 players who perform consistently, then it wouldn't matter who plays - you pick the team based on the need. Rather than pittiing one player against another and being either "right" or "wrong" I would rather see players being picked in a logical way and more consistency. eg, this match needed 3 pacers. Sujon is not much of a pacer anymore, and he was replaced by the only remaining pacer, Nazmul. Nazmul did pretty well given the opposition. Now, when you ask for a spinner (Rana) instead of Nazmul to replace Sujon on this wicket, I question your cricketing sense. If you wanted to drop Ash, it should have been for another batsman, ie Rajin or Shahriar Nafees. You cannot drop a front line batsman and bring in a spinner all-rounder, which is a what Rana is and sometimes he is very effective. If some people recognized who should replace whom, we would not need these type of threads.

Sujon is the only one who does not belong on this squad. The rest of the them do, and we should be able to interchange them as necessary.

Bottom line , we should celebrate the players who won this game, not gripe about those who weren't there.

Sham
June 18, 2005, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by feisal
the point is between form and class....

some pople just do not have the eyes... for example, the 40 plus aftab scored in ctg.. could tell what his class is.. still the same bunch of people say that " he has to rpove in test matches.." the whole thinking is so much scoreboard oriented.. and that too going to archieve and finding out..

they will never understand the impact of tushar imran's innings today as that eased the pressure and showed that bowlers can be dealt normally..
same vein, King's innings in 79 world cup or Durjoy's innings against scotland.. or even Ashraful's 39 ball 40 in worcster..

class is permanent, and form is temporary...

let us just not go the point of having 5 batsman.. with rana at number 6??? mashud is a reasonable number 7, but just inadequate at number 6..

i also talked about that duck theory.. ref to 4 consecutive ducks to jr waugh and 3 to Ponting... the same people jumped the gun that ashraful is in bad form.. where he was dismissed in 3 good balls.. and gave his wicket away on the only other innings.. and scored runs in between...e day..

Well put. First, people have to understand what class is, and then they can work on trying to place it ahead of form. Form is important, there is no doubt, but in a match like the one we played today, only class could have gotten us through, just form wouldn't have done it! I wanted to write during the lunch break that if we had to win, we will need something special from Ashraful and Aftab, but people would have beaten me up on that had I said it. But, those are our two players with class, and on a day that either or both of them bat well, we will score good runs against any side.

rafiq
June 18, 2005, 01:54 PM
Let's not forget our bowlers. Despite not getting any support from Habibul Bashar in the form of close in felders (those who watched the game know what I mean), they did their job admirably well to take early wickets, restrict in the middle overs, and then finish keeping the score under 250, which was a big pshychological win.

And some people will look at tapash or nazmul and say "they gave up 60+" - but they took wickets and the end of the day that mattered.

Beamer
June 18, 2005, 01:54 PM
Sham
I think you are right to bring it up. Most people with arguements such as Rana for Ash..in all probability no nothing about cricket. So, no point really arguing with them. Hope it will shut them up forever. But, I doubt it..

Spitfire_x86
June 18, 2005, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Sham
Going behind others? Hell no, I am taking people straight on. Actually, the victory is sweet enough as it is, but Ashraful scoring a century is just double sweet, and I need to find some outlet to let loose my joy!! So, I am very much enjoying the day "with" my fellow Bangadesh fans.
Agree with you, it couldn't have been better than this. If Aftab scored a century instead of him then it would be great too, but since he was already in form and Ashraful wasn't, it's double great.

PoorFan
June 18, 2005, 02:00 PM
:sorry: I should stay out of this thread:P
btw, I kept Ash in my team and only replaced Chacha with Tapash.

It's joy time, lets forget about Ash/Rana thing for today.
:bravo::fanflag::joy:

Sham
June 18, 2005, 02:02 PM
Let me just clarify that this is not about Rana, and its not a go at Rana lovers. I would have picked Rana myself in this game. This thread is to the Ashraful doubters. Personally, I would much rather pick a player who on his day (even if those days are rare) can take on and beat the World Champions than take players who may be more consistent but even on their best day couldnt win the team a match, much less play anything even resembling the innings that Ashraful played today.

Lets face it, as a batsman, you just dont get down on one knee and sweep a Mcgrath off-stump ball for four through fine leg. I've seen a lot of fours in my life, including Moin Khan sweeping pace bowlers for four to balls pitched on leg-stump. But never have I seen anyone sweep McGrath from the off-stump. That is just the height of arrogance, the very thing we needed today!

Edited on, June 18, 2005, 7:04 PM GMT, by Sham.

feisal
June 18, 2005, 02:02 PM
even yesterday, i was talking about that six over point ashraful hit of Murali kartik.. down the wicket..probably first delivery faced.... well that is another example of an innings whose impact will not be captured in scoreboard.. his other six was a hook.. worth remembering..

Sham
June 18, 2005, 02:14 PM
I will never forget Aftab's six either! Picked the slower ball and hit it so damn cleanly, it was beautiful. And the sheer guts to play that shot in the first ball of the last over, just brilliant!

roaring tigerz
June 18, 2005, 03:01 PM
everyone who said that rana should have played in place of ashraful actually deserve to get bashed. i have absolutely no value for their judgement whatsoever and feel absolutely vindicated after ash's magnificent ton. Ashraful, u r a superstar!

ReckmyBack
June 18, 2005, 03:03 PM
Rana in place of Chacha , not Ashraful . Nazmul , Tapash , Masahrafe , Rafique , Bashar , Ashraful can't be changed for a long time in odis.

shaoun
June 18, 2005, 05:13 PM
ashraful can score big runs, there is no doubt about that. but what he lacks is consistancy.i mean he scored a century today but if he doesnt socre more then 20 for next 10 matches then we will say to drop him again. bottom line is he plays reckless shots early in his innins and gives his wickets away, but when he can stay in the wicket he can score big runs.

Flipper
June 19, 2005, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by Sham
I would have some very rude words for you lot if I wasn't a member of BanglaCricket staff. But in any case, hide!!

And this is not about Rana, I would have actually played him in this match, but to even think that Rana would replace Ashraful, well, I don't think I need to say how bloody stupid that would be anymore!!

Sham,

First of all, well done Ashraful; this was a commendable achievement!

Yes, I was the one of the people suggested that Rana should replace Ashraful. I donít really care about Rana, but I believed, given Ashrafulís recent form, and manner in which he has carried himself since Zimbabwe series, Duleep trophy to this England series, Rana was going to be even a better choice ahead of him. I was reasonable but not bloody stupid!

I know all about the ďClassĒ business, but I didnít know class comes with immaturity and arrogance. Ash is still immature, and thatís a fact. To play cricket at this level we need maturity of Ranaís kind; but, then again we can gamble with a class, and get a result like that of today. After todayís showing I realized that I can make peace with it. But, what worries me is that when we gamble with such class, we also run the risk of bringing back the old question, ďDo we deserve to play test Cricket???Ē After one innings at Lordís, you masterfully explained the way our cricketers handed their wickets on a plate, and elaborated how we donít deserve to play test cricket. If someone is leading this charity work of donating wicket, Itís Ashraful by a huge margin. So, doesnít he deserve to be dropped after comments like I will pull Harmison, no matter our team is at 20/4, and follows it with a closely similar fashion?

Bangla cricket forum is the identity of Bangladesh cricket in the World Wide Web. The site is listed everywhere from BBC to anywhere you name it. When ICC officials, Sports Journalist, and cricket Sponsors visit the Bangladeshís world renowned cricket site, they see that even this forumís advisor echoes what the likes of Warne, and Botham says, and does think that Bangladesh does not deserve to play test cricket. If we didnít keep on gambling with the likes of Ashraful, this issue wouldnít have been brought up!

I am not an Ashraful hater or anything, in fact, I was a fan of Ashraful, and admitted it when I discussed about Mushfiqur Rahim with you. But, I gave up on him for the reasons I explained here. Even last week in this Thread (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/viewthread.php?tid=12086&page=2) , I said Ash is only 20, and he needs time to mature. He is not doing well in this series, and he should take some time off.

Anyways, I really hope that Ashraful gives you a lot more chances from now on to show your rude attitude, and open more threads like this to finally outnumber the threads with the opposite content. I am greatful to Ashraful for giving me such joy by playing percentage mature cricket, but not enough yet to call him anything like the best BD batsman, until he shows it consistently.

Right_Way
June 19, 2005, 07:08 AM
Hey Man! I got a question for you. Who is an impact player

1) Rana or 2)Ash.

I guess everyone would say it is Ash and he proved it yesterday.

Ash is a match winner no matter who is the opponent. Ash is upredictable and he is inconcistent, even Dav said that. And trust me thats the reason why Dav kept him in the squad.

I said earlier in other threads that inlcuding Rana would not have made any difference, he would just be another addition.

We got three quality players who could single handedly win games and they are,

1) Aftab (proved slightly in home series)
2) Ash
3) Mash (No need to prove. He is just brilliant)


Originally posted by Flipper
Originally posted by Sham
I would have some very rude words for you lot if I wasn't a member of BanglaCricket staff. But in any case, hide!!

And this is not about Rana, I would have actually played him in this match, but to even think that Rana would replace Ashraful, well, I don't think I need to say how bloody stupid that would be anymore!!

Sham,

First of all, well done Ashraful; this was a commendable achievement!

Yes, I was the one of the people suggested that Rana should replace Ashraful. I donít really care about Rana, but I believed, given Ashrafulís recent form, and manner in which he has carried himself since Zimbabwe series, Duleep trophy to this England series, Rana was going to be even a better choice ahead of him. I was reasonable but not bloody stupid!

I know all about the ďClassĒ business, but I didnít know class comes with immaturity and arrogance. Ash is still immature, and thatís a fact. To play cricket at this level we need maturity of Ranaís kind; but, then again we can gamble with a class, and get a result like that of today. After todayís showing I realized that I can make peace with it. But, what worries me is that when we gamble with such class, we also run the risk of bringing back the old question, ďDo we deserve to play test Cricket???Ē After one innings at Lordís, you masterfully explained the way our cricketers handed their wickets on a plate, and elaborated how we donít deserve to play test cricket. If someone is leading this charity work of donating wicket, Itís Ashraful by a huge margin. So, doesnít he deserve to be dropped after comments like I will pull Harmison, no matter our team is at 20/4, and follows it with a closely similar fashion?

Bangla cricket forum is the identity of Bangladesh cricket in the World Wide Web. The site is listed everywhere from BBC to anywhere you name it. When ICC officials, Sports Journalist, and cricket Sponsors visit the Bangladeshís world renowned cricket site, they see that even this forumís advisor echoes what the likes of Warne, and Botham says, and does think that Bangladesh does not deserve to play test cricket. If we didnít keep on gambling with the likes of Ashraful, this issue wouldnít have been brought up!

I am not an Ashraful hater or anything, in fact, I was a fan of Ashraful, and admitted it when I discussed about Mushfiqur Rahim with you. But, I gave up on him for the reasons I explained here. Even last week in this Thread (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/viewthread.php?tid=12086&page=2) , I said Ash is only 20, and he needs time to mature. He is not doing well in this series, and he should take some time off.

Anyways, I really hope that Ashraful gives you a lot more chances from now on to show your rude attitude, and open more threads like this to finally outnumber the threads with the opposite content. I am greatful to Ashraful for giving me such joy by playing percentage mature cricket, but not enough yet to call him anything like the best BD batsman, until he shows it consistently.

Sham
June 19, 2005, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Flipper

Bangla cricket forum is the identity of Bangladesh cricket in the World Wide Web. The site is listed everywhere from BBC to anywhere you name it. When ICC officials, Sports Journalist, and cricket Sponsors visit the Bangladeshís world renowned cricket site, they see that even this forumís advisor echoes what the likes of Warne, and Botham says, and does think that Bangladesh does not deserve to play test cricket. If we didnít keep on gambling with the likes of Ashraful, this issue wouldnít have been brought up!



Don't even try it. I am not going to be put on the same boat as Warne and co. in their criticism of our team. They said we shouldn't play test cricket because we are not good enough to play test cricket. I said we shouldnt play test cricket till we decide to take it seriously and approach it seriously. At Lords, our chaps played like idiots in the first innings, and I don't think anyone will disagree with that. Bashar and Aftab were the worst culprits, but overall, no one even tried to spend some time out in the middle till Mashud came into the picture and showed everyone how it should be done.

I said it then and I am saying it now, what angered me at the time was the attitude and the approach, not our scorecard. If we tried hard and scored 108 all out, I wouldnt have complained. So, if you are trying to shame me by saying that as an Advisor of Bangladesh cricket, it is irresponsible of me to justifiably criticise my team, a team that I have followed religiously for years, then I will have to disagree with you there, as I do with you most of the time.

As for the Ash in place of Rana debate, like I said, I would rather pick a player who on his day (even if those days are rare) can take on and beat the world champions, rather than someone who on his best day doesnt have a hope of winning us a game with the bat, let alone play the sort of innings that Ash played. Rana's spin is useful and his courage as a batsman is admirable, but just as I have never said that Mashud should be a top six batsman, neither should Rana. I am tired of arguing with people who can't see the difference between a lower order batsman who tries very hard and is quite effective and a top order batsman. You just don't replace one with the other. The word bloody might have been used in the heat of the moment, but its stupid, no taking that back!

Sham
June 19, 2005, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Flipper
If we didnít keep on gambling with the likes of Ashraful, this issue wouldnít have been brought up!



What are you crazy??

The question of our losing Test status isn't because of people like Ashraful! We are holding on to our Test status because of Ashraful for crying out loud. If it wasn't Ashraful's century against India that silenced Ganguly and inspired the ODI win in Dhaka, or his 100 yesterday that will no doubt silence the Aussies, our Test status would be under serious threat right now. Yes, Ashraful fails a lot, but when he comes good, he single-handedly silences all our critics and makes sure our test status is intact till he sees the need to play another gem.

So, I don't know what exactly to say about a claim that our Test status is under threat because we continue to gamble with Ashraful. You aren't doing your credibility a lot of good with a statement like that.

And for your information, Ashraful gave him wicket away once this series against England, in the second innings at Durham when he played the most inexplicable shot to get out. Other than that, he has been dismissed by the bowler. He actually has been trying really hard to stay at the wicket, something that the Chairman of Selectors said yesterday as well, and it was just a matter of time till he got a break and a bit of luck to spend some time at the crease and get his confidence back.

mwrkhan
June 19, 2005, 07:42 AM
I will reserve my judgement about Ashraful after seeing his performance in the next few ODIs.

BanCricFan
June 19, 2005, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by Sham


Lets face it, as a batsman, you just dont get down on one knee and sweep a Mcgrath off-stump ball for four through fine leg. I've seen a lot of fours in my life, including Moin Khan sweeping pace bowlers for four to balls pitched on leg-stump. But never have I seen anyone sweep McGrath from the off-stump. That is just the height of ARROGANCE, the very thing we needed today!

Edited on, June 18, 2005, 7:04 PM GMT, by Sham.
Yes, Sir! Ash, Aftab, Masri, Enam (Talha, Alok)) are world beaters in making!
CONFIDENCE probably a better choice of words!

Flipper
June 19, 2005, 08:31 AM
Sham,

Let me make it clear on couple of issues.

1. I donít think Rana is a top order Batsman. He is a tail-ender who is useful with the bat like you said. The reason I wanted Rana ahead of Ash is because our bowling failed in the previous match, and we needed to try something different. Our batting on the other hand didnít disappoint too much. So, I thought given Ashrafulís poor form from getting the quality balls, and the reasons I said earlier, even Rana would be a better choice. I couldnít replace him with another batsman in our squad who is in form.

2. One can criticize our team, no worries there; But, not like this way. The way you said Warne and co. thinks about it. This is, however, just my opinion.

Originally posted by Sham
Originally posted by Bat&PadTogether
After such poor display just wondering if we really deserve to play test cricket??

Absolutely not!

And we have known it all along! We have just been hoping for improvements from our side so that we could justify our inclusion, but based on how we have fared in the last five years, obviously we don't deserve to play Test cricket. We are worse than most domestic sides of Test playing countries. 15 out of the 18 counties in English domestic cricket will beat us within 4 days, all 6 of the Australian first class teams will beat us within 4 days and all the Duleep Trophy teams as well, not to mention most Ranji Trophy teams will beat us within 4 days!!

As for cricket's popularity in Bangladesh, what good is it if we cant even produce the kind of cricketers that New Zealand with just 4 million, and that too rugby crazy, people produce? Source (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/viewthread.php?tid=11839#pid189022)


3. I agree that Ash is a match winner, no worries here either. But I donít agree with the fact that this gives him a unquestionable place in the team, no matter what. Anyways, like I said before, he is only 20 and he will mature for sure only if he wants to.

BanglaCool
June 19, 2005, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by mwrkhan
I will reserve my judgement about Ashraful after seeing his performance in the next few ODIs.
That's misery. Why keeps you from admitting that Ashraful played an outstanding innings, just he had played a few more before- everyone else did.

Fazal
June 19, 2005, 09:08 AM
We have just witnessed the miracle. The team permformed excellently, Ash was rightly the man of the match. Some of the team mates's contibution:

1. Mashrafee's first spell set the game.
2. Tapash got the break whenever he was used.
3. First spell Nazmul was containing the batsman.
4. Rafique was economical.
5. As fifith Bowler Aftab was ok.

These all set up the target for us to even start dreaming in this game.

Then,

1. Gullu did some of his task by staying long.
2. Tushar looked more confident at #3 any one else at that slot recently.
3. Ash showed the miracle, showed where is his limit talentltwise. I am speachless in joy. I hope he continue to perform more for his team in near future.
4. Bashar played like a captain. Played down the order, he was holding the team tight so that there is not another batting collopse which is very normal in BD team.
5. Aftab impress me more , the more I see it. After 2 dot balls and with 6 balls 7 run to score, I was nervous. But his shot was a confident shot. He still amazes me more than any other batsman in the team.
6. Rafiaue as ususal, played as he is supposed to play.

All said and done, we one of our respected bc members did?
He didn't waited even 24 hours to celebrate this historical moment with rest of us, but tried to use this a occation for a cheap shot to his fellow memebers and Rana to prove his point, "I said so.". And poor Rana, he didn't even played this match, and he was again dragged to the contoversey. May be if Rana played, he would have signifant contribution in a signifant way with the bat as well as with the ball; may be he would have done none like chacha. who knows, and its also pointless and wrong time for analysis at this moment.

Now the only thing I care is we all should and need to celebrate as much as we can.





:fire::fire::fire:

Edited on, June 19, 2005, 2:13 PM GMT, by Fazal.

Sham
June 19, 2005, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Flipper


2. One can criticize our team, no worries there; But, not like this way. The way you said Warne and co. thinks about it. This is, however, just my opinion.

Originally posted by Sham
[quote]Originally posted by Bat&PadTogether
After such poor display just wondering if we really deserve to play test cricket??

Absolutely not!

And we have known it all along! We have just been hoping for improvements from our side so that we could justify our inclusion, but based on how we have fared in the last five years, obviously we don't deserve to play Test cricket. We are worse than most domestic sides of Test playing countries. 15 out of the 18 counties in English domestic cricket will beat us within 4 days, all 6 of the Australian first class teams will beat us within 4 days and all the Duleep Trophy teams as well, not to mention most Ranji Trophy teams will beat us within 4 days!!

As for cricket's popularity in Bangladesh, what good is it if we cant even produce the kind of cricketers that New Zealand with just 4 million, and that too rugby crazy, people produce? Source (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/viewthread.php?tid=11839#pid189022)

The criticism is absolutely fair in my opinion. If its a question of deserving to play Test cricket, what have we done to deserve it? Apart from a good match here and there (mostly because of Ashraful), we havent' fared very well. Whether we should play Test cricket is another question and I have never said that our Test status should get taken away, even though I still think we got it prematurely.

But, you still have to understand the basis for criticism. My biggest problem with our team is that they don't apply themselves, and Test cricket is all about application. Ashraful has been no worse than the others in this regard, but people take it out on him more because he is so talented. But you have to understand, his talent is his biggest blessing and his greatest curse (remember Vinod Kambli?).

You are comparing me to Warne on the basis of what I wrote, rather than trying to understand the basis of it. In three out of four innings in the Test matches, we didn't apply ourselves at all. Now its very nice for all of us to read Rabeed Imam's glowing articles about how we should be judged on potential rather than performance, but isn't that exactly what we were saying 5 years ago? Potential, not performance. Isn't that why ICC gave us Test status? The quality of our cricketers have improved, but the attitude is still woefully inadequate for Test cricket, and this needs to change soon.

A lot of people on this board have been linking yesterday's win to our Test status. In my opinion, we still have a lot of work to do in Test cricket before people stop asking for our status to be taken away. The reason why I havent really gotten into the test status debate or the two-tier debate is because I dont think either will happen. But just because our Test status looks secure for now doesnt mean that we can continue to perform the way we have been doing.

Edited on, June 19, 2005, 2:10 PM GMT, by Sham.

Sham
June 19, 2005, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Fazal
And poor Rana, he didn't even played this match, and he was again dragged to the contoversey. May be if Rana played, he would have signifant contribution in a signifant way with the bat as well as with the ball; may be he would have none. who knows, ant its also pointless and wrong time for analysis.



Oh Lord, how many times am I going to say this: This thread was not about Rana, it was about Ashraful. Rana would have played if I picked the team yesterday in place of Nazmul. All the Rana lovers are getting unnecessarily defensive. Don't worry chaps, Rana will play at some point in this series I'm pretty sure and when he does, he will do a perfectly commendable job as a bowler and lower order batsman.

Flipper
June 19, 2005, 09:35 AM
Again, I loved what Ash has done here and there, but to think he is the one single-handedly protecting our test status most of the time is really hard to swallow.

The Test matches that we are proud of are only a few, and Ash didn't perform in most of these games:

1. BD vs Aus 2nd test
2. BD vs Pak, 3rd test
3. BD vs. Eng, 1st test in BD
4. BD vs. WI first test
5. BD vs. Ind in Chitagong
6. BD vs. Zimbabwe ( our first win)

Sham
June 19, 2005, 09:52 AM
The thing is, when it comes to our status and a question of whether we belong at this level, a super individual performance actually has more impact than some creditable team performances.

Out of all the matches that you have listed as ones that 'we are proud of' hardly any will have made any difference to our doubters and detractors. In Australia, we scored nearly 300 once in 4 innings, a big deal for us, but not enough to impress anyone else. Pakistan was a good performance no doubt. But again, the Test against England, good show for us, but not enough to impress anyone else. As for our win over Zimbabwe, that made no impact whatsoever on the cricketing world outside of BD.

Its actually the individual performances that have somewhat silenced our critics thus far and only a few players in our team are capable of it. Ashraful has done it in the past, Mashrafe has as well and Rafique, and Aftab is starting to do it now. Enamul will do it to I'm sure, but he will have to do it against better teams than Zimbabwe for people to notice.

The point is, these performances prove that we have something special and are worth sticking with and being patient with. The odd Test match when we push England a little bit in Dhaka doesn't make a difference in the end. Ashraful's hundred yesterday, or Aftab's 82 in Durham has shown our cricket in more positive light than the entire Zimbabwe series, trust me!

Flipper
June 19, 2005, 10:33 AM
This is my point as well. Ash is not the solo performer majority of the time, he is one of the few we have had. Ash, Mash, Aftab, Alok, Enamul jr, Rafique, Bashar are the ones in the list of today and tomorrows game.

babubangla
June 19, 2005, 01:39 PM
Yes..I am one of the persons who said Ashraful should be dropped. If he shows such inconsistency and immaturity all around the year---he should certainly be dropped. He just plays good knocks on some rare occasions. If he goes back to his inconsistent batting form again, we will again raise our voice to drop him. Today's 100 against Australia was one of the rare days when he really performs. All other time-he is just a big talker. We should not forget all the pains he gave us with all his bad performances after his 158 run innings. I am not saying he will have to make big runs all the time---but he must show some consistency and maturity. I hope this innings give him some self-belief to perform consistently.

yaseer
June 19, 2005, 01:44 PM
Now we should never talk about replacing ASHRAFUL.........forget it and let him play..........

:fanflag:

mwrkhan
June 19, 2005, 04:04 PM
We have a few more one dayers left, then we play SL after a break. Let's see how Ashraful contributes. He has been indulged for a while, he performed yesterday, good for him and the team, I just hope for his sake and ours that he doesn't fall back into his old ways and produces a good knock once in a blue moon.

CTazim
June 19, 2005, 04:34 PM
I was one of those (in his tempoary infinite wisdom ;)
) who stated that Aftab had an average of 14 or something and should not be included in the first eleven was also wrong.

Bottomline is we all need to be patient and try to focus on teh target and not make the team selection a moving taget. :)

dihan
June 19, 2005, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Flipper

Yes, I was the one of the people suggested that Rana should replace Ashraful. I donít really care about Rana, but I believed, given Ashrafulís recent form, and manner in which he has carried himself since Zimbabwe series, Duleep trophy to this England series, Rana was going to be even a better choice ahead of him. I was reasonable but not bloody stupid!
.


Playing Rana would help us to fight occasionally and playing Ash would give us the chance to win.
We need to combine Rana's spirit and Ash's brilliance to win more.

But replacing a top order batsman by a lower order batsman is a foolish idea and I am surprised to see some of our honorable members are supporting that. :o

amra_korbo_joy
June 19, 2005, 05:32 PM
I was always a supporter to include Ashraful. Because , I have seen 158* runs against India. and I know if Ashraful gets the rhythm, it is always possible to win against any team.

Edited on, June 19, 2005, 10:35 PM GMT, by amra_korbo_joy.

Sham
June 19, 2005, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by CTazim
I was one of those (in his tempoary infinite wisdom ;)
) who stated that Aftab had an average of 14 or something and should not be included in the first eleven was also wrong.



That being precisely the problem with judging players based on scorecards and averages. I get beaten up for saying that people shouldnt judge a player without seeing him play and even then one can go wrong (as I was about Rokon), but you just can't judge a cricketer from a bunch of numbers, that too a young player who has played hardly any matches.

roaring tigerz
June 20, 2005, 04:44 PM
all this discussion about ashraful proves to me once again how valuable ashraful is to the team. we are ecstatic when he performs as each of his major accomplishments has a ring of the extraordinary and hint at so much promise. but this where he has lost the plot so far. these glimpses of greatness has been followed by numerous instances of mediocrity. i understand the frustration of all the passionate fans when they called to take ashraful out of the team.maybe just maybe his momentous hundred at cardiff would be a turning point in his career. we hope against hope that ashraful can give us many such moments of ecstacy and jubilation that he gifted us with his breathless and audacious batting exhibition against the aussies. but for now there should be no doubt whatsover in anyone's mind that ashraful and the future of bangladesh cricket are inextricably attached.

Edited on, June 20, 2005, 9:46 PM GMT, by roaring tigerz.

TheWatcher
June 20, 2005, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by roaring tigerz
maybe just maybe his momentous hundred at cardiff would be a turning point in his career.
Otherwise dropping him once a while from the team remains the proven fix-up for him:lol: