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Rumi
June 20, 2005, 12:40 AM
Asraful and Bangladesh team was honored with champagne during the award ceremony after the BD vs OZ upset ODI.
Question, as some observer commented, is it a show of cultural insensitivity on the part of the organizers? I don\'t know about UK, but in USA it is absolutely illegal to serve anyone below 21 with alcoholic beverage. Ashraful is not 21 yet. What would happen if MOM went to Nazmul, nafees, rana, Enamul or others below 18 or 21?
BTW what does Pakistani\'s do with the champagne?

Flip Master Mick
June 20, 2005, 12:48 AM
i believe the drinking age in the UK is 16... as for the Veuve Clicquot Ponsardin you could write to the organizers and ask them to switch it with Rooh Afza for us and our Pakistani brothers... ;)

sajid
June 20, 2005, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by Rumi
BTW what does Pakistani\'s do with the champagne?

depends. MOST pakistani players drink. Don't let their bismillah or inshallah fool you. Inzi on the other hand is truly pious. If given a champagne, he would probably throw it away.

chinaman
June 20, 2005, 12:51 AM
By this time, they probably made this a tradition already. "No, Thank you" would serve our tradition though.

To my knowledge, one Pakistani player (Hafiz?) said no to such offer 2 years ago.

Sauron
June 20, 2005, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by Rumi
Asraful and Bangladesh team was honored with champagne during the award ceremony after the BD vs OZ upset ODI.
Question, as some observer commented, is it a show of cultural insensitivity on the part of the organizers? I don\'t know about UK, but in USA it is absolutely illegal to serve anyone below 21 with alcoholic beverage. Ashraful is not 21 yet. What would happen if MOM went to Nazmul, nafees, rana, Enamul or others below 18 or 21?
BTW what does Pakistani\'s do with the champagne?

A few comments:

- They gave Ashraful the Champagne, did not make him drink it.

- Does not matter what Pakistanis do with the bottle. Ashraful can take it home and place it on a mantle for his grand-children to look at.

- Does not matter if one is below 18 or below 21. These guys are representing a nation. I don't think it matters what their age is.

- If an Australian was MOM, whatever he would have received, we should expect our MOM to get the same, symbolisms included. In fact, if they did not give Ashraful the Champagne bottle, that should be a reason for us to feel indignant.

- If the match was in BD there wouldn't be Champagne involved. Similarly, if the match is in England, obviously that wil involve Champagne. It is as simple as following the norms of the hosts.

- Last but not the least, Ashraful can always give it to Dav as a gift :)

mona
June 20, 2005, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by Rumi
Asraful and Bangladesh team was honored with champagne during the award ceremony after the BD vs OZ upset ODI.
Question, as some observer commented, is it a show of cultural insensitivity on the part of the organizers? I don\'t know about UK, but in USA it is absolutely illegal to serve anyone below 21 with alcoholic beverage. Ashraful is not 21 yet. What would happen if MOM went to Nazmul, nafees, rana, Enamul or others below 18 or 21?
BTW what does Pakistani\'s do with the champagne?

I'm pretty sure the legal age for drinking in England, like Australia, is 18. Probably wouldn't give it to someone under 18.
Also, I don't think it was culturally insensitive at all. Maybe if they gave him a platter of bacon it would have been a different matter but champagne is just a way of saying congratulations and go celebrate. It's a part of western culture so it would be culturally ignorant to expect otherwise. Since when was drinking forbidden anyway, I thought only getting drunk is sinful?

AsifTheManRahman
June 20, 2005, 01:03 AM
who cares? i know wouldn't mind, although i don't drink. besides champagne is always handy for celebrations - you can always spray it around and play with it if you're not drinking it.

CTazim
June 20, 2005, 01:06 AM
Mona according to Islam, Driking is prohibited period. In the Quran, Allah says, "..and they will claim that Alcohol is good for you! And I agree with them. However, it brings you more harm than good. That is why I have made it Haram for you."

So, there you go. As far as the Champagne is concerned.. Noone has seen Ash drink it. Is it culturally insensitive? I don't think so. As much as wearing Hijab in the Western world is not.

IMHO, It would have been culturally insensitive, if the BD players drank it in the public and was viewed by all.

Cheers

Azim

Sauron
June 20, 2005, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by Sauron

A few comments:

- They gave Ashraful the Champagne, did not make him drink it.

- Does not matter what Pakistanis do with the bottle. Ashraful can take it home and place it on a mantle for his grand-children to look at.

- Does not matter if one is below 18 or below 21. These guys are representing a nation. I don't think it matters what their ages are.

- If an Australian was MOM, whatever he would have received, we should expect our MOM to get the same, symbolisms included. In fact, if they did not give Ashraful the Champagne bottle, that should be a reason for us to feel indignant.

- If the match was in BD there wouldn't be Champagne involved. Similarly, if the match is in England, obviously that wil involve Champagne. It is as simple as following the norms of the hosts.

- Last but not the least, Ashraful can always give it to Dav as a gift :)

One other thing - the legal drinking age limit is enforced in mostly western countries. I know for a fact that in Bangladesh, if you have the money, you can buy and drink any hard beverage without anyone asking how old u r. So, legal issues are hypocritical to bring up.

There is a point in the "cultural" part of the argument. But you can be gracious to your hosts by accepting the accolade and still empty the bottle in the dressing room sink later.

To me, it seems more important to have instantly corrected the Worcestershire official who called BD Srilanka. That is an issue of character. To refuse the bottle is not.

I loved the way Ashraful thanked Allah and the way he performed sijda on the pitch after his century. This is what counts.

Rumi
June 20, 2005, 01:16 AM
Drinking is sin or not sin is not the issue here. That discussion may belong to a different location, however, the issue was cultural insensitivity.
Cricket is a global sports now, not confined to the boundaries of England or OZ, anymore, so, if a tradition has to be made, it gotta be universally acceptable.
Yes, it is a western tradition to celebrate with champagne, but it is also western tradition to be respectful of others.
I am sure in USA, they won't allow to award or celebrate a middle school sport victory with champagne. Last I knew, USA was part of the west also.

[ For God's sake, in NBA, some players even refused to stand silent for national anthem, stating religious reasons. I don't know where in their religion (Islam) national anthem is prohbited. ]

mwrkhan
June 20, 2005, 01:19 AM
It may or may not have been culturally insensitive to present us with a bottle of champagne, but the team did not refrain from posing with it....just look at the BC cover page photo.

I recall when Pakistan toured England in 1992 they were not presented with champagne for any of their wins (and Pakistan won the majority of their encounters against England on that tour). It is an issue that should have been sorted out beforehand by our team management, maybe the thought of us winning a game or two did not occur to them!:)

Rumi
June 20, 2005, 01:23 AM
Yes, mwrkhan you may have the right answer. BD team management should have intervened before. Probably this happens in Pakistan's case, will happen in UAE's case also.

sasharif
June 20, 2005, 01:28 AM
Guys! Let us discuss about the real issue and the task at hand. Champagne or no champagne, let us pull off one more win. Let us have brave fight in the other matches. Let one win not sweep us away. Let us bury the pride of Warne, Benau and Hughes. Champagne or no champagne.

reverse_swing
June 20, 2005, 01:29 AM
Now a days it becomes a tradition here to give the Champagne to the winning team. They have an entrenched drinking culture and this is an increasing trend, especially among the young british people. British drinkers are among the biggest spenders on alcohol(£1200 yearly per person)in Europe almost twice as much as the Germans.

btw I concur with Chinaman and MwrKhan.

Edited on, June 20, 2005, 6:30 AM GMT, by reverse_swing.

mwrkhan
June 20, 2005, 01:30 AM
Heck!!! As long as the team is winning they can drink champagne until their stomachs burst, I don't care. :)

cricfanz
June 20, 2005, 01:39 AM
ash is probably gonna present it to dav or place it on a mantle forever...:P

Spitfire_x86
June 20, 2005, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by cricfanz
ash is probably gonna present it to dav or place it on a mantle forever...:P
I've read in Prothom Alo that they sprayed the Champagne as a part of celebration. I think Ash will probably keep the bottle like his other trophies.

Spitfire_x86
June 20, 2005, 02:09 AM
It's just a trophy, not a drink. Nobody is required to drink if they don't want to.

I don't understand why it can be considered offensive.

Edited on, June 20, 2005, 3:45 PM GMT, by Spitfire_x86.

Rubayed
June 20, 2005, 02:11 AM
With all due respect to the guy who raised this question,,i personally dont think that giving Ashraful Champagne was culturally insensitive. its a silly question, who cares whether he is 16 or 60,he wasnt drinking it. The poor guy just scored his maiden century and helped his team win agasint Australia, so give him a break. It would have been insensitive only if he was caught on camera drinking it after the award ceremony.

snobgoblin
June 20, 2005, 05:36 AM
And please also remember that Bangladesh is a secular republic unlike Pakistan which is an Islamic state. Bnagladesh is not governed by Sharia law and as such, there is no real question of religous offence when the trophy is nominally awarded to the team, representing secular Bangladesh.

BanglaCool
June 20, 2005, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by mona
Originally posted by Rumi
Asraful and Bangladesh team was honored with champagne during the award ceremony after the BD vs OZ upset ODI.
Question, as some observer commented, is it a show of cultural insensitivity on the part of the organizers? I don\'t know about UK, but in USA it is absolutely illegal to serve anyone below 21 with alcoholic beverage. Ashraful is not 21 yet. What would happen if MOM went to Nazmul, nafees, rana, Enamul or others below 18 or 21?
BTW what does Pakistani\'s do with the champagne?

I'm pretty sure the legal age for drinking in England, like Australia, is 18. Probably wouldn't give it to someone under 18.
Also, I don't think it was culturally insensitive at all. Maybe if they gave him a platter of bacon it would have been a different matter but champagne is just a way of saying congratulations and go celebrate. It's a part of western culture so it would be culturally ignorant to expect otherwise. Since when was drinking forbidden anyway, I thought only getting drunk is sinful?

Mona:
Here culturally insensitive is referring to both the common practices and laws of a country. Alchohol is prohibited for all Bangladeshi (Muslim?) Nationals. Our cricket team represents the values of our country.
As for the "bold" question, this just exposes your ignorance (and an uncommon misconception) which you can verify from many sources.
http://www.submission.org/drugs/alchohol.html

BanglaCool
June 20, 2005, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by snobgoblin
And please also remember that Bangladesh is a secular republic unlike Pakistan which is an Islamic state. Bnagladesh is not governed by Sharia law and as such, there is no real question of religous offence when the trophy is nominally awarded to the team, representing secular Bangladesh.
What is the definition of secular? The countries constitution begins with "Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim". Maybe India is more secular than Bangladesh.

BanglaCool
June 20, 2005, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by mwrkhan
Heck!!! As long as the team is winning they can drink champagne until their stomachs burst, I don't care. :)
One of the reasons we won against Aussies is precisely this, but on the other side. Symonds the key middle order spanking batsman and wicket taking medium pace bowler was suspended because of drinking. I insist you don't promote such acts to our national team, which is also against our norms. Who do we identify with Bangladeshis or Australians?

Sami
June 20, 2005, 07:05 AM
regardless of the fact if the constitution begins with "Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim" or not, Bangladesh is officially a secular nation, been that way for a while.

Most of what I would like to say has been said already. Its a trophy, nothing more nothing less... no one saw the Bd player drinking it... and if they all drank it in private... good for them...
and what values are you talking abt??? Bangladeshis aborad drink, Bangladeshis in Bangladesh drinks... (over-generalizing a bit here) its abt personal preferences.

This was not culturally incensitive even by a longshot. Diloi na hoi champagne ki hoi tatay? When and if you become a MOM and get presented with a champagne, choose NOT to take it.

Locutus
June 20, 2005, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by Rumi
Asraful and Bangladesh team was honored with champagne during the award ceremony after the BD vs OZ upset ODI.
Question, as some observer commented, is it a show of cultural insensitivity on the part of the organizers? I don\'t know about UK, but in USA it is absolutely illegal to serve anyone below 21 with alcoholic beverage. Ashraful is not 21 yet. What would happen if MOM went to Nazmul, nafees, rana, Enamul or others below 18 or 21?
BTW what does Pakistani\'s do with the champagne?

Are you sure that USA legal age of drinking alcohol is 21?
I thought it was 19.

mwrkhan
June 20, 2005, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by BanglaCool
One of the reasons we won against Aussies is precisely this, but on the other side. Symonds the key middle order spanking batsman and wicket taking medium pace bowler was suspended because of drinking. I insist you don't promote such acts to our national team, which is also against our norms. Who do we identify with Bangladeshis or Australians?

The quote was tongue in cheek, did you seriously believe I was promoting alcoholism in the team?

You are talking about norms, please see my earlier post in the thread where I mentioned that the BD team happily posed with the bottle of champagne. Look at the BC frontpage photograph. It is quite clear that the team didn't find it objectionable or else they would have kept the bottle out of sight and not flaunt it the way they did.

This is really not a big deal.

mwrkhan
June 20, 2005, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by Logen
Are you sure that USA legal age of drinking alcohol is 21?
I thought it was 19.

It is 21 in the vast majority of states (48 out of 50 I think). It is 18 in Europe and Australia. It was 18 in the US until 1986 when the organization called MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) successfully campaigned to raise it to 21.

babubangla
June 20, 2005, 09:10 AM
What's the big deal about it?
There is no reason to create a scene by refusing to take the bottle. After all, it is a gift!! Many times we get gift from others and do not like it...still we don't let the presenter know it. The same principle should be applied here. Just take it and if you don’t want it---pour it down it in the toilet bowl. Best of all---keep it as a souvenir. After all, if you keep it for long time, you can even get a fortune after your retirement by selling this Champaign bottle.

cricman
June 20, 2005, 09:16 AM
we all know shane warne would of gotten drunk right if he had played and won MOM.

he took the bottle and it doesent mean he drank from it.

paco
June 20, 2005, 09:16 AM
Who drinks champagne anyways ? They should've given him a bottle of Tequila

Locutus
June 20, 2005, 09:19 AM
specially the white stuff from Mexico. Tequila Sauza is the best.

Sham
June 20, 2005, 09:23 AM
No its 21 in the US, 18 in Britain.

Firstly, its not insensitive, culturally, religiously or in any other way. They are following their custom, and if we don't want to drink it, we don't have to.

Secondly, I couldn't care less what the Pakis do with it.

Thirdly, I think Ashraful should take a sip. Might change his fortunes.

Fourthly, for the people who will take exception to my third point, please understand that it is not a serious statement, even though that bottle would be emptied of its contents within a very short time if I could get my hands on it, and therefore please don't start a religious debate about the haramness of drinking.

And lastly, something cannot be legally insensitive. It is either legal or illegal and in this case, its perfectly legal.

DotBall
June 20, 2005, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by Rumi
Asraful and Bangladesh team was honored with champagne during the award ceremony after the BD vs OZ upset ODI.
Question, as some observer commented, is it a show of cultural insensitivity on the part of the organizers? I don\'t know about UK, but in USA it is absolutely illegal to serve anyone below 21 with alcoholic beverage. Ashraful is not 21 yet. What would happen if MOM went to Nazmul, nafees, rana, Enamul or others below 18 or 21?
BTW what does Pakistani\'s do with the champagne?

It is definately not insensitive to present Ash with a champagne bottle. It is the tradition of NetWest Sponsored series and it is insensitive to think of it cultural insensitive act. Now, giving someone alcoholic beverage who is below 21 in illeagal at states and if the age restriction is same in England then those organizers might be in trouble.

Zunaid
June 20, 2005, 09:28 AM
sham - you had to stir the the pot er umm champaign glass here with the third. ;-)

We have quite a little storm in a champaign glass going on here. My crystal glass protends one of those long and interminable religious flame wars.

Zobair
June 20, 2005, 09:43 AM
I think we can leave it to the discretion of the player. In this case, the artless way in which Ash kept thanking Allah is ample evidence of where his loyalties lie. I have no doubt Ash looks at the champagne bottle more as a trophy than anything else. Our players "Almary showcases" (mantle what?) are generally pretty bare and I am sure a jumbo-sized champagne bottle would like mighty nice in there?

PS: How many of you guys drink from a tequila bottle? When we first moved back to Bangladesh, I remember we got all these empty glass alcoholic beverage bottles of different shapes and sizes. My word they stank! Anyways, they were soaked in water for a few days, then thoroughly rinsed with detergent and then once the stink was gone we used them as water bottles (boiled water stored in the fridge). So there you go! One more use of a champagne bottle even if you don't fancy the original contents inside.

ekatturerBangalee
June 20, 2005, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Spitfire_x86
It's just a trophy, not a drink. Nobody is required to drink if they don't want to.

I don't think why it can be considered offensive.

Yes, absolutely; So, what's the fuss about?
I don't understand.
Why bringing ISLAM and RELIGION here.
This is game of CRICKET; an unique situation where we won and received a trophy which happens to be a champagne bottle.

"Mogoz Dholai" ar kake bole -- Let's gow up folks and discuss cricket and don't mix Cricket with Religion.

Just one quote I would like to add here, " if you are a Muslim, you should be praying and not play cricket when it is time to pray" ---- Get it!!!!! Do we do that????

allrounder
June 20, 2005, 09:58 AM
It all depends on the person who gets the gift. If you give a present to someone and he/she is not offended by it, then that is the end of the story.

Now if a third person finds that the gift was inappropriate then he/she should take it to the person who took the gift happily not the person who gave it.

Sham
June 20, 2005, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Zunaid
sham - you had to stir the the pot er umm champaign glass here with the third. ;-)

We have quite a little storm in a champaign glass going on here. My crystal glass protends one of those long and interminable religious flame wars.

Zunaid bhai, surely you know how bored I get when I'm not in the middle of a storm of some kind on this board. So, for me to see a thread like this and resist the temptation to add fuel to fire would be most uncharacteristic.

NoboBarta
June 20, 2005, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Rumi
Asraful and Bangladesh team was honored with champagne during the award ceremony after the BD vs OZ upset ODI.
Question, as some observer commented, is it a show of cultural insensitivity on the part of the organizers? I don\'t know about UK, but in USA it is absolutely illegal to serve anyone below 21 with alcoholic beverage. Ashraful is not 21 yet. What would happen if MOM went to Nazmul, nafees, rana, Enamul or others below 18 or 21?
BTW what does Pakistani\'s do with the champagne?

Which culture are you talking about? Bangladeshi? Or, international cricket? Surely the latter considers it as a norm. ..Bangladeshi? Dhaka or outside Dhaka? Gulshan/Baridhara? Or Ajimpur/Mirpur? It all depends on where you come from.
If anyone has watched YGTL on NTV recently (just an example), he/she would actually appreciate the fact that Ash got a bottle of champagne! Diversity of Bangladeshi culture gets little affected by a bottle of champagne rather appreciates the extension into another culture like international cricket.

Zephaniah
June 20, 2005, 10:32 AM
If any champagne bottle is about to start a civil war then Ash can always give it to me.

I'm still twenty something, I still want to save the world!

Hasib
June 20, 2005, 10:33 AM
Geez ppl...WHO CARES!!!

adnan_zaman
June 20, 2005, 10:58 AM
the main thing is bangladesh is muslim majority country.........drinking is absolutely prohibited in islam...........therefore the management should do a better job next time, by telling them to keep the champagnes away inshallah..........
It doesnt matter wat tradition they (westerners) follow, we are not like them, ("This world is the paradise for the unbelievers"....Sahih al Bukhari).........our aim is the next world along with this world........ we have no similarities to english or aussies......so therefore its really quite unacceptable to presented with champagne to our players (regardless of whether any of them drink or not).....................

NoboBarta
June 20, 2005, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by adnan_zaman
the main thing is bangladesh is muslim majority country.........drinking is absolutely prohibited in islam...........therefore the management should do a better job next time, by telling them to keep the champagnes away inshallah..........
It doesnt matter wat tradition they (westerners) follow, we are not like them, ("This world is the paradise for the unbelievers"....Sahih al Bukhari).........our aim is the next world along with this world........ we have no similarities to english or aussies......so therefore its really quite unacceptable to presented with champagne to our players (regardless of whether any of them drink or not).....................

So it is a religious issue not a cultural issue! I guess then, Ash should give the bottle to Taposh B. Hope his religion would not prevent in accepting international cricket culture! Then you might be happy and say that Taposh is not a part of BD culture because majority are Muslim in BD!

I agree with most participants here that this is not a place for religious discussion. So, shouldn't religiously biased people be prevented from posting any comment or reference? What does Bukhari say about cricket?

yaseer
June 20, 2005, 11:26 AM
should we debate that long with this issue?
this is so simple fact........do you know what FIFA is trying to impose? FIFA want all the member countries must have female national team.......so BD started Female foot-ball lague.........now FIFA want female foot-ballers to wear tight shirts and very short pants (like female voley-ball players....like panties).........what will you say to this??
The whole thing can be said as world politics.........
so....champaign issue is very small here in my point of view...........but i agree that......it would be better if we could rejected to take the bottle............but can we do that practically speaking??

al Furqaan
June 20, 2005, 12:06 PM
Thirdly, I think Ashraful should take a sip. Might change his fortunes.



ash could also take a hit of dro, or perhaps a snort of coke, just one acid trip, just one tinny-winny shot of heroin, or just one small mushroom.

what is the difference between, those drugs and alcohol?

none.

it would change his fortunes, send em to an early grave and hell afterwards.

we want the best for our players, we dont wanna make em into drug addicts. keep em healthy.

as for the issue of insensitivity, if ash found it offensive he could refuse the champagne. its just a trophy. besides he can use it for its best purpose: as a disinfectant!

Edited on, June 20, 2005, 5:09 PM GMT, by al Furqaan.

bop
June 20, 2005, 12:11 PM
As far as I am concern, I would rather see all Bd players shower with champagne and posted not only in British media but also all over the world than poverty stricken Bangladesh once again under flood water!


Originally posted by Rumi
Asraful and Bangladesh team was honored with champagne during the award ceremony after the BD vs OZ upset ODI.
Question, as some observer commented, is it a show of cultural insensitivity on the part of the organizers? I don\'t know about UK, but in USA it is absolutely illegal to serve anyone below 21 with alcoholic beverage. Ashraful is not 21 yet. What would happen if MOM went to Nazmul, nafees, rana, Enamul or others below 18 or 21?
BTW what does Pakistani\'s do with the champagne?

fwullah
June 20, 2005, 12:12 PM
BD team management should have intervened before.


We didn't know that we would win before the match. :P

AsifTheManRahman
June 20, 2005, 12:13 PM
ek moder botol dise dekhe koto kahini howe gelo...amader asholei kono kaam nai :D

BushidoTiger
June 20, 2005, 12:21 PM
It is really pathetic and appalling to see how almost everything manage to be linked with religion (pls. spare me w/ responses proving how everything IS linked with religion).
C'mon people...we don’t live a homogenous culture. We were at England..not in Islamistan. Their intention was not to belittle us or undermine our religious sensitivity by presenting champagne (no matter how much the conspiracy theorist wanna believe).
It was a celebratory gesture. Nobody asked him to pop the bottle and shower everyone with it. If Ashraful doesn’t drink, all he has to do is either pour it down the sink someone suggested earlier or give it to Dav or other members who may have better usage for the fine bottle of goods.
There is a couple of stereotyping here…we are assuming that all non Muslims/Bangladeshis drink alcohol while all Muslims abide by the religious prohibition against drinking alcohol. We all know better…

Years back when L.A Lakers was wining championships with Karim Abdul Jabber as a captain, they would have Magic and rest of the guys pop open the celebratory champagne and spray each other under the gleaming eyes of the captain at the sideline. Everyone knew Karim’s preference and made sure he wasn’t sprayed with the substance that he personally avoids.
Why is that we have to dissect every thing and look for phantom agenda on EVERY gesture? Somebody brings it up and there goes one fatwa just to be trumped by yet another one.
Let’s relax and savor the moment..!!

chucker
June 20, 2005, 12:54 PM
BD is more religiously zealous now than it has been before and it is also reflected in this group where religion should be the last topic to talk about.

Dont you think that this discussion is also insensitive to the non Muslim BC members?

Spitfire_x86
June 20, 2005, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
ek moder botol dise dekhe koto kahini howe gelo...amader asholei kono kaam nai :D
sukhe thakle bhute kilay arki :P

BanCricFan
June 20, 2005, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by radicalsami
regardless of the fact if the constitution begins with "Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim" or not, Bangladesh is officially a secular nation, been that way for a while.

Most of what I would like to say has been said already. Its a trophy, nothing more nothing less... no one saw the Bd player drinking it... and if they all drank it in private... good for them...
and what values are you talking abt??? Bangladeshis aborad drink, Bangladeshis in Bangladesh drinks... (over-generalizing a bit here) its abt personal preferences.

This was not culturally incensitive even by a longshot. Diloi na hoi champagne ki hoi tatay? When and if you become a MOM and get presented with a champagne, choose NOT to take it.
Yeah, Bangladesh is also officially a "democratic" country too;)

Do you just go by labels or how Bangladeshis behave home and abroad?? BTW, if you study Islam carefully you will see the true spirit of secularism there. I encourage you to study the history of Islam in Spain( Andalusia).

Champagne is not just a trophy, its alchohol pure and simple.
It was rather absurd to see and hear Ash thanking Allah while clutching on to a bottle. Isn't it just- ho jo bo ro lo- just like our cricket sometimes! He is young and not so intelligent but where were the management? May be its for them!:lol:

Edited on, June 20, 2005, 6:26 PM GMT, by BanCricFan.

NoboBarta
June 20, 2005, 01:28 PM
It is actually good to have a discussion like this. This discussion showed that more members here are religiously unbiased. That probably is the reason that people like myself are spending more and more time here.

ekatturerBangalee
June 20, 2005, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
ek moder botol dise dekhe koto kahini howe gelo...amader asholei kono kaam nai :D

fazlami-r aar jaiga pai na...
koto boro SHAHOSH ei Firingi British-er
Moder botol tule dai ek Musalman-er hate ????

ekatturerBangalee
June 20, 2005, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by BushidoTiger

Why is that we have to dissect every thing and look for phantom agenda on EVERY gesture? Somebody brings it up and there goes one fatwa just to be trumped by yet another one.


U don't like SHARIA_LAW? no?
These days the so-called Islamists are popping up like mushrooms :great:

Edited on, June 20, 2005, 6:44 PM GMT, by ekatturerBangalee.

BanCricFan
June 20, 2005, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by mwrkhan
[quote]Originally posted by BanglaCool

This is really not a big deal.

Well if you pay attention to all alcohol related violence, crime( 90% 0f all campus rape in States) and murders then you may come to realise the adverse affect of alcohol in any society. Islamic philosophy or ethics is based on "prevention is better than cure" therefore, it doesn't even allow in moderations! Its totally HARAM!

ekatturerBangalee
June 20, 2005, 01:56 PM
Humor the most powerful weapon ------- A Comedian's sketch:

"...I had just walked off the comedy stage glad the audience spoke English when a young man who identified himself as a “devout Muslim” came up and asked me a question.

“Why are you making fun of 72 virgins?” he asked, face flushed with ire.

“I’m not making fun of 72 virgins,” I said.

“Yes you are,” he insisted, calling it “haram,” the Arabic word for “a sin.”

“No. I am making fun of the idea that you can kill your sister if some stranger says she slept with a strange man, but it’s OK to enjoy 72 virgins if you die for a good cause.”

That only made him more agitated. He explained that according to his religion, those who sacrifice themselves for a just cause will enjoy the beauty of heaven and 72 virgins. into Paradise will be rewarded with blessings that eclipse anything on earth; unlimited food of your choice, riches, and wishes come true. Things considered sinful on Earth such as wine will be allowed, and people will be able to eat and drink all they want and not get full or hungover or sick. "

mafizraju
June 20, 2005, 02:24 PM
Man Whats wrong with all of you........... What the hell of it in popping all these Middle

Eastern Craps here. I guess Ash would have been better off by not taking the bottle in public,

rather go at night to buy a bottle of Fine Russian Vodka to save all you zihadis here.

Now if you wanna talk about relegion, let me talk about relegion........ All the great BD ppl

who live abroad (including my self) why dont you go back to your home country and establish the

"""ISLAMIC STATE""""" rather than living in a foreign country (Please dont talk about the crap

that my parents brought me here) because the welfare system you live in is based on alcohol, the

house your buying is mortgaged (HARAM!!!! INTEREST), the car you r driving is Insured ( Only

ALLAH is your insurance !!!!) the economic system you are living is based on interest

(HARAM)........ So why the hell you guys are not going back to your dreamy Islamic state with

all you zihadis with you to build a State with "tyrany" and suicidal squad as your military men.

And for those who lives in middle east (Especially Saudi or Kwait or Katar) there is a huge

world outside the stupid Arab brothers (No offence to the middle eastern though and btw Iranians

are not Arabs so are the Most egyptians), who likes to bang white chicks with blond hair and

blue eyes just by going to as close as morocco. So please dont dare to bring the hypocratic

Middle east here. and as for Pakistan praisers, Please follow the lead of Jamat E Islami and get

the hell out of Bangladesh including you so called "ALLAH" and HIS Praisers "matiur and

Gong"(Cause you are not legally entiteled to be a Bangaldeshi any more no matter what Khaleda or

hasina says, cause you are oposing the constitution).

finally the ppl who are living in Bangladesh, we all know who drinks and who does not. there is

a much sober way of drinking present in other countries including UAE. (By the way to all

pakistan lovers Alcohole was more easily available during Pakistan period than now...go ask your

wise daddy)....... And taking a bottle of Champagne does not make any difference wahts so ever.

All they are doing with it is celebration.. spraying it all over. nothing wrong with it and i

guess no relegion prohibates that...


and if anyone think use of alcohole is Haram (not only drinking) then please stop wearing any

clothing or use any Dyes of any sort, please dont use any plastics, please ride on a car, dont

read books, dont come infront of the computer for surely and please avoid everything you need or

discover halal computer, halal car or halal books including halal computers..............

RazabQ
June 20, 2005, 02:24 PM
Ok, enough is enough. This thread is pointless and does not belong in a cricketing discussion. I'm not going to be drawn into debates on cultural sensitivity, PC, or religion here. This thread is closed - move on to something else. "I hear Sham went and harassed Manzurul Rana" - there that should keep you agitators busy for a while :)

Sham
June 20, 2005, 02:30 PM
Topic Open:

Oh my God, what have I done to you man? You are going to get me killed!!

Topic closed!