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Rubu
June 21, 2005, 11:51 AM
Bowling had been dreadful in this match. But who's fault is this actually? Bowlers? NO.

it is the fault of the selection board who did not pick the right team and the captain who did not rotate the bowling right.

The selectors and many other people read in a text book that in english condition spinners do not work and you need pacers. so the stupid people went for them. Fine, you made a mistake, but what is wrong with those guys. can't they learn from mistake and fix them? How come after 2 test and an ODI against england they did not figure it out that our pacers are no match for english batsman? how come they can't forget that textbook and see with a naked eye? And if it was that they spinners had never been useful, i'd understand. but they are. rafique is performing much better than anyone else except mashrafee. But no, you have to go with pacers. I wonder why are not they bringing in few more "class acts" like talha or munir since the current bunch is not doing anything! What is wrong with bring in rana instead of taposh or nazmul? Oh yeah, he looks ugly when he bats. sorry i forgot that. He would sure bowl better than taposh or nazmul, but that does not matter. but how about bringing him instead of tushar? he can sure add those 15-20 runs that tushar is adding and can add the much needed spin depth to bowling. but thats not possible, he looks ugly.

and then comes suman. how come he never figure out that taposh is having the worst day of his life? why bring him in again and again? to ruin his career? why not try ash for a change? would he get any worse than this?

until all those cricket pundits forget the textbook and learn from real life, we gonna have many more days like this.

TheWatcher
June 21, 2005, 12:06 PM
Leave Tushar alone Agent, Taposh did enough to be dropped out of the team.

roaring tigerz
June 21, 2005, 12:22 PM
bowling was absolutely shoddy today. the pitch is as flat as it gets. any team would concede 275+ on this ground. but what disappointed me most was the absolute lack of imagination in our bowling. short and wide balls, full tosses, bowling wide on both sides of the wicket ... taposh was abolulely poor during the whole game. his bowling lacked any penetration or consistency whatsoever. his buffet bowling was complemented by heavy dose of extras. i thought mashrafee bowled pretty well in the first spell. rafique and aftab also did a decent job. the england batsmen toying with our bowling was not a pretty sight at all. what showed in this match was, we defintely need a specialist spinner against england. rana has to come in place of taposh next game.taposh has not been himself since the start of this tour...just give him some rest, he will surely come back stronger than ever.

Edited on, June 21, 2005, 5:24 PM GMT, by roaring tigerz.

Spitfire_x86
June 21, 2005, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by TheWatcher
Leave Tushar alone Agent, Taposh did enough to be dropped out of the team.
Yeah, why Tushar should be dropped?

Rubu
June 21, 2005, 12:30 PM
Because Rana can score more than tushar. tushar has so far been scoring only a few runs. it is to make a point that rana is better than 2 bowlers and a batsman in the team. and still he is sitting out.

Ejaj
June 21, 2005, 12:30 PM
I was just simply shocked about Taposh bowling today man. He couldnt bowl one decent bowl to trouble any batsman in his enire 7 overs ( 0 out of 42+8+2= 52 balls).

Jush ShockEd at his quality!!

ehtasum_
June 21, 2005, 12:34 PM
iknow..... even yesterday taposh gave lots of run away.. altho took some wikets.. and he kept on blowling no . whats up wit that? cant he learn from 2-3 no , that not to do the same thing again... stupid guy... i agree too.. he shud be dropped out..

Sham
June 21, 2005, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
Because Rana can score more than tushar. tushar has so far been scoring only a few runs. it is to make a point that rana is better than 2 bowlers and a batsman in the team. and still he is sitting out.

Okay, I want Rana in this team as well, but you make no sense to me. Rana in place of Tushar? HUH??

The bowling today was just awful. Okay so England is batting well, but you don't go out there and bowl all over the place, width outside off-stump, half volleys on leg-stump, how bad were we oh God!!!

Rubu
June 21, 2005, 12:36 PM
Batsman rana is much better than tushar and bowler rana is much better than taposh or nazmul. what is there not to understand?

Karim
June 21, 2005, 12:38 PM
THATS WHAT I SAID ANOTHER POST STOP CHANGING PLAYER LIKE MACHER BAZAR. WE ARE IN CRICKET GAME. WE ARE NOT HERE SHOPPING FISH. BANGLADESH CRICKET BOARD STILL HAVE PROBLEM.
LOOK EVERY single cricket team they dont change player so often we do. mannnnnnnnnnnn DAMM HOW S THOSE PLAYER GONNA GET METALLY STRONG AND CONFIDENT. THEY ARE ALWAYS ON PRESSURE IF DONT PLAY GOOD I WONT HERE TOMMROW MATE ITS DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.

Sham
June 21, 2005, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
Batsman rana is much better than tushar

NO!

Till the last match, he was better than Ashraful. Now after Ashraful's innings, he is better than Tushar. If Tushar scores a hundred today, he is going to be better than Golla and you guys will want Rana to open.

Rana is not better than any of our top six. However, he will do better than Nazmul or Taposh, and should play in place of one of them, end of story.

Edited on, June 21, 2005, 5:42 PM GMT, by Sham.

Rubu
June 21, 2005, 12:41 PM
give me reason.

Karim
June 21, 2005, 12:42 PM
WHHERES SPINNERS ONLY ONE GUY KHALED WHERE S SHUJON BASHAR CAPTAINCY IS NOT GOOD . TAPOSH BOWLING NOT GOOD AT ALL. MASHRAFEE IS FUTURE SHOULD MAKE HIM PLAY MORE GAME AND TRAIN HIM BETTER. HE HAS GREAT POTENTIAL.

mahbubH
June 21, 2005, 12:42 PM
It is not very common to see a bowler bowls too many no balls in two consecutive matches. Seems Taposh is not responding to the treatments, if there was any. (I have not watched the first 30 overs of England innings).

Ejaj
June 21, 2005, 12:43 PM
[quote]Originally posted by AgentSmith
Batsman rana is much better than tushar and bowler rana is much better than taposh or nazmul. what is there not to understand? [/quote


Cant agree at all to you about this. Impossible. I always liked Rana as a good utility bowler who gets wicket because he keeps the line tight and make the batsman work hard for their run. But. as a batsman.. I simply dont agree at all that. he is better than Tushar.

Sham
June 21, 2005, 12:45 PM
Okay, I'll give you a reason. Tushar has wonderful timing and has shots both sides of the wicket. He got out to a brilliant catch against Australia in trying to up the scoring rate. He has looked pretty good out there, and there is absolutely no reason at this point to take him out of the middle over and bring in a bowler in his place.

Sometimes you guys talk as if Rana scores a 50 in every match. His ODI batting average isn't much better than the 24s that Tushar has scored, so how does that make him a better batsman than Tushar?

Edited on, June 21, 2005, 5:46 PM GMT, by Sham.

Rubu
June 21, 2005, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Sham
Till the last match, he was better than Ashraful. Now after Ashraful's innings, he is better than Tushar. If Tushar scores a hundred today, he is going to be better than Golla and you guys will want Rana to open.

Rana is not better than any of our top six. However, he will do better than Nazmul or Taposh, and should play in place of one of them, end of story.


i never said rana is better than ash. and have been always saying rana is better than tushar. first off, what have tushar done to be in the team? give me some REASONS (not some anecdotes) he should be in the team. then we'll talk about why rana is better than him as a batsman.

Sham
June 21, 2005, 12:50 PM
Okay, I'm signing out of a Rana v Tushar debate now. I think Tushar is a better batsman by some distance. Tushar doesn't have to score 100s against Rajshahi for me to think that. You see players and you can tell who has potential to become good and who doesn't. The Rana lovers are becoming blinded by their love. Rana is effective, I'll give you that, but he isn't a batsman and should not be batting at number 3 in our ODI team!!

Rubu
June 21, 2005, 12:52 PM
whatever tushar scored last match, most of his shots went up in the air. no way a sign of good batsman, he was lucky not got get out early. sure rana's average is around 24, but tushars in mid teens, i think.

If Tushar scores a hundred today...

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons6/24.gif


Edited on, June 21, 2005, 6:09 PM GMT, by AgentSmith.

Rubu
June 21, 2005, 01:30 PM
9.3 Tremlett to Tushar Imran, OUT: short on the off and a thin edge to
Jones behind the stumps and a possible hat-trick chance on debut
for Tremlett


I hate to be right like this, but as you can see my understanding of cricket is not that dumb.

Sham
June 21, 2005, 03:05 PM
Hasn't Ashraful taught you guys anything?

You don't judge a player after one or two matches. Any batsman can get out first ball, Ashraful did at the Oval and almost did it today as well. Aftab got out first ball today to Collingwood.

A batsman getting out first ball doesn't mean he is not good. So, I dont see how this proves you right? Again as I have been saying, we should not be judging our players on the basis of stats or one or two innings here. These are young guys coming in and out of the team. They need time to settle. I'd give Tushar a go at the number 3 spot. Two matches ago, a poll (if conducted) would have dropped Ashraful from the team. One hundred and ninty four runs later, I think some people have changed their minds!! Knee-jerk reactions don't help anybody!

shovon13
June 21, 2005, 03:24 PM
when we say someone is better than someone else at batting, we assume the judgment is being based on potential, technique, ability to play shots....etc etc. tushar is a better batsman than rana. why? well i dont know how to convince someone otherwise who's hell bent on believing something. and i really didn't see anything funny with the possibility that tushar could've scored a century today. perhaps my sense of humor is dying with time.

people would've laughed just like that if i told'em that ash was gonna score a 100 against aus. well....guess who's laughing now?

Rubu
June 21, 2005, 03:25 PM
How do u compare ash with tushar? ash before his badpatch, has showed what he is capable of before. what did tushar showed? ash got out on first ball, true but what kind of ball was that? and what kind of ball did tushar got out with? sure stat does not tell it all, but dismissing stat as nonsense is foolish. it tell at least 80% about a batsman. a batsman in badpatch is understandable but how about someone who never had done anything? all tushar did was couple 50's against a lowly zim A team (actually B team). that does not justify a recall in national team. this is not knee jark reaction, this is going into the facts leaving aside the useless "looks".

Rubu
June 21, 2005, 03:38 PM
Tushar -

ODI Average: 16.19
Test Ave: 8.66
1st Class: 24.52

Rana -

ODI Average: 23.66
Test Ave:25.69
1st Class: 35.22

Can't believe someone thinks tushar to be a top line batsman with a single digit test average after 6 innings.

also don't understand how someone is looking while doing something is more important than what he is doing.

people would've laughed just like that if i told'em that ash was gonna score a 100 against aus. well....guess who's laughing now?
NO. because ash had 2 test centuries and 5 fifties before. not to mention he showed what he is capable of few time before. what are the basis of supporting tushar?

Edited on, June 21, 2005, 8:42 PM GMT, by AgentSmith.

Fazal
June 21, 2005, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
whatever tushar scored last match, most of his shots went up in the air. no way a sign of good batsman, he was lucky not got get out early. sure rana's average is around 24, but tushars in mid teens, i think.

If Tushar scores a hundred today...

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons6/24.gif


Edited on, June 21, 2005, 6:09 PM GMT, by AgentSmith.

:lol:

Akib
June 21, 2005, 03:47 PM
I say Rana instead of Tushar,


And to you Karim.... on any team if a player plays as horrible as Baiysha then they get out...

Also STOP USING capitals... its harder to read.

Spitfire_x86
June 21, 2005, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Sham
Rana is not better than any of our top six. However, he will do better than Nazmul or Taposh, and should play in place of one of them, end of story.
:clap: :clap: :up: :up:

Sham
June 21, 2005, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
How do u compare ash with tushar?

I don't! I don't compare anyone with Ashraful. Thats what you guys do!

All I was saying was, once a player is in the team, you can't judge them after one or two matches.

As for Rana, I give up. He is our best batsman with such amazing averages in all forms of cricket. Pick him over anyone you want!

al Furqaan
June 21, 2005, 04:41 PM
tushar should stay...at this point, rana should replace tapash.

tapash is good (at least decent) he is a pacer who can penetrate and take wickets.

nazmul should opne the bowling with masri, rana and rafique are the spinners. aftab is the 3rd pacer. and if we need more ash is there.

bottom line, we need a bowling coach. our pacers are playing horribly.

reyme
June 21, 2005, 04:47 PM
Tushar has been in and out of A and original team for a long time Sham. We have seen him long enough to conclude on the fact he is not an amazing batsman to have an automatic selection. In fact his performance in the selection matches in Dhaka was not credible enough to be included him in the squad. He was lucky to be in this team, and probably got the nod because of his experience. So what is your point of not giving him chance for long enough? Haven't we seen him for years now? What 1/2 matches are you talking about?
And what has he done after so many matches. Holds a teen avg in the test maches and he now qualifies as a better bataman than Rana according to you. My answer is NO. He is no better than Rana, worse.

Rana in the recent national league has a 150 something under his belt. He is not a genuine batsman true, but his batting PERFORMANCE is better than Tushar. In the ODI, then why prefer Tushar over Rana? Does not make sense man.

Give me a reason why you must play 6 specialized batsmen in the ODI? 1/2 of them must bowl anyways, so they better be an alrounder. Time and time again Rana proved to be a better performer than many of the so called specialized batsmen, opened, played in the middle, lower middle, and holds up the second/highest batting avg among active players. And that is not a fluke, we all know he played more than 1/2 macthes right?

Just becase he/his batting style looks ugly to you, does not mean he is inferior. He has the avg, he is young, so opting him out that he will never be a top 6 batsman is utterly ridiculous Sham. If you want to argue all your life just for the sake of counting him out, then go right ahead. Stats proves it, performance proves it, even the guy even wins the mathces for us, 2 MOM in the last 3 matches shows more than anything.

You can run, but you cant hide.

Zephaniah
June 21, 2005, 04:56 PM
Tushar should stay. His test average is anomalous, and in ODI, at this stage of our team, he should come at 3 , may be at 4 at the moment as Ash is in magical form to take on any bowling at 3. Bashar should remain at 5 to inject some maturity ( as we all hope) in the middle order.

Rana should come in place of Tapash or , shall I say, Shahreer Nafees. None of JO's partner in this series did anything to write home about and Rafique scored more runs than them with his 'swing & miss' technique. I don't count him as batsman, but Iqbal and Shahriar Nafees simply doesn't inspire me at their curren run of form. If Rafique survives under bright sun in Old Trafford then he can actually take the attack to opposition with some nasty slogs and hoicks.

Tapash is in complete disarray, but Mashrafee-Tapash-Nazmul trio did a decent job last time we met our next opponent - Australia. And I simply could not entertain the idea of Aftab coming in as 1st change bowler against the Australians, possibly after 10th-12th over.

A heat wave is running through the country right now which would possibly last till early next week. If weather/condition remains as it was today then my playing eleven agaist the Australians in Old Trafford will be

Javed Omar
Md. Rafique
Tushar Imran
Md. Ashraful
Habibul Bashar
Aftab Ahmed
Manjarul Islam Rana
Khaled Masud
Mashrafee Mortaza
Tapash Baisya ( do we have any other pacer in the mix?)
Nazmul Hussain

This combination may work out if JO-Rafique can see off initial 4/5 overs from the Australians.

mahbubH
June 21, 2005, 05:01 PM
Tusher is a good player for ODI. But I don't think he is an ideal for number 3. He is not a good player against new balls. If our openers can see off the new balls .. he may get some success at three. He would be a good player for middle overs.

Fazal
June 21, 2005, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by sports_fan_bd
Tusher is a good player for ODI. But I don't think he is an ideal for number 3.

I also thought so.

#3 is a tricky and trouble spot for us. And ideally Tushar should be in #5 or #6 slot. #3 spot is a "Career Killer" for BD batsman. If he continues to bat at #3, Tushar will be the new Bolir Patha for this ODI series.

Zephaniah
June 21, 2005, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Fazal
Originally posted by sports_fan_bd
Tusher is a good player for ODI. But I don't think he is an ideal for number 3.

I also thought so.

#3 is a tricky and trouble spot for us. And ideally Tushar should be in #5 or #6 slot. #3 spot is a "Career Killer" for BD batsman. If he continues to bat at #3, Tushar will be the new Bolir Patha for this ODI series.

Right you are!

But trouble is not many of us would like to see Bashar back at 3 again and if Tushar isnt good enough for no.3 then he isnt good enough for unsettling Ash-bash-Aftab middle order too. In grand scheme of things I would rather have Nafees Iqbal coming at 3.

Sham
June 21, 2005, 05:35 PM
I thought Abir was really scratchy today. He needs to tighten up. He looked very unsure outside the off-stump, hanging his bat out half the time. Not a very inspiring start!

Mahir
June 21, 2005, 05:44 PM
It seems as if Bangladeshi bowlers get energized and grab the opposition by the throat only when they get a dream start by breaking down the opposition top-order. On the other hand, when the batsmen start dispatching them to the cleaners, our bowlers keep repeating the same mistake, and keep giving them juicy fulltosses and begging-to-be-hit half volleys.

Its so puzzling!

BangladeshFan
June 21, 2005, 05:44 PM
the original thread was about bowling but it is turning out to be a dscussion about our batting order. bd didnt lose to england because batting order was wrong but because bowling was absolutely horrible. do the important thing first and that is to sort out the bowling.

my feeling is that we dont need tapash and naz together.
one of the two and mash, rafiq , rana. occasional bowler in the form of ash, bashar or tushar can do as well.

Flipper
June 21, 2005, 05:45 PM
I was kind of getting frustrated by the way Abir batted on the top of the order. I've never seen his batting before so can't say much based on this one. But, he sure is worse than Nafees in this series. What I didn't understand was all those wild swings that he made !

Mahir
June 21, 2005, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by BangladeshFan
my feeling is that we dont need tapash and naz together.
one of the two and mash, rafiq , rana. occasional bowler in the form of ash, bashar or tushar can do as well.

you totally forgot Aftab!!! :wow:

Zephaniah
June 21, 2005, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Flipper
I was kind of getting frustrated by the way Abir batted on the top of the order. I've never seen his batting before so can't say much based on this one. But, he sure is worse than Nafees in this series. What I didn't understand was all those wild swings that he made !

Exactly. That actually made me think that Rafique would have done that swing-slog better than him in a very productive way.

Spitfire_x86
June 21, 2005, 06:00 PM
What about Aftab at #3? His highest score in ODI came at #3.

At test, he's fine at #6. But in ODI, he doesn't get much chance to bat unless we have a big collapse, and then damage control becomes his only job.

I think Aftab should definately come at #3, especially when we're batting first and/or if the wicket is batting friendly.

amim
June 21, 2005, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
Because Rana can score more than tushar. tushar has so far been scoring only a few runs. it is to make a point that rana is better than 2 bowlers and a batsman in the team. and still he is sitting out.

Agent, you should know that even Bashar is even scared to bat at no 3.

Tushar shouldn't be batting at no. 3 and be exposed so early against quality fast bowling and a new ball as we always lose openers very quickly.

Rana might be more than useful with the bat but he can't do a better job than Tuashar at no. 3. can he ?

You can't blame some one who gets out in first ball. But tushar's batting against the top 2 teams and he didn't play in the tests or in practice matches before test. In english conditions we played miserably last year in ICC trophy.

I am at least happy that no one is suggesting tushar to be dropped and rajin to be included. We all have not lost our senses like you Agent .... Replacing tushar with rana.

Everyone was complaing that Inzy needed to bat no. 3 in ODI against AU in VBseries because there is no reason in exposing young players in seaming conditions.

Well since bashar is our best test batsman why doesn't he bat at no. 3 and let tushar bat at no. 5. I am sure tushar will score lot better and at least he wouldn't be out in the very first ball he faces.

amim
June 21, 2005, 06:07 PM
rana can play instead of taposh.

thebest
June 21, 2005, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by AgentSmith


Can't believe someone thinks tushar to be a top line batsman with a single digit test average after 6 innings.

Edited on, June 21, 2005, 8:42 PM GMT, by AgentSmith.

do u know, Atapattu's total run after 6 innings 1

Ejaj
June 21, 2005, 07:25 PM
In this entire tour.. Abir was the one. I was really looking for. But.. unfortunately.. he had been turned out to be my biggest disappointment. The way he bats,, unthinkable.!!.. he simply doesnt show that he even saw the ball where it is going. I will still go for Tushar today.. as.. he actually looked a much more compact batsman than many of the forum ppl are saying agaisnt him. I will still want him in my team.

Now.. the most worrying part( how amazing this crickeitng worry for us.. it was the batting in test.. now. it is the bowling in ODI !!!!). BOWLING... Who should play in place of Taposh??.. Rana should be making into the team along with Rafiq. That will leave us.. Masree and Nazmul( who also have a bad record while balling a shiny ball) open, and then Aftab/Ash as 5th bowler. Although.. there is not pace.. But. I think... it will still be better to slow down the opposition batsmen and keep the score into reachable target. Forget taking wickets....my biggest worry is .. How to keep the score down???................

Lets really hope that.. the selectors atleast give one chance to Rana.

Rubu
June 21, 2005, 10:33 PM
thebest, attapattu's total runs after 2 innings was 1, not 6.

amim, my comment was not about replacing rana with tushar. at this time, replacing rana with taposh is much more plausible. but my point is that Rana is a better batsman than tushar. there is no rule that if someone is worse than rana, then he can't play. given the form and condition, we need to replace taposh. but accept it, we are leaving out a player who is better bowler than 2 of the bowlers and a better batsman than one batsman.

TheWatcher
June 21, 2005, 10:40 PM
Agent, first let Rana to come in the team and perform. Then you can compare with him whoever you want.

Rubu
June 21, 2005, 11:03 PM
yeah, watcher you are right. specially if rana fails with bat or ball, people gonna kill me. :lol:

but u know what, for rana the toughest part has always been is to get into the team, once he is there he usually performs. i've faith in this kid, he'll not let me down.

Fortuner
June 22, 2005, 05:49 AM
The problems with our bowlers :

1) To much Short Length Balls which gives room to English Batsmen to hit it for fours.
2)Not giving yorkers often like how Flintoff and Harmision does.
3)Giving slow full toses
4)Slow pace of Nazmul
5)Not using Ashraful whn the pitch is turning
6)Using parttime bolwers like Aftab in Slog over
7)Not fast yorkers by Mash in slog overs.
8)Fileding not helping our bowlers
9)No wise tips to the bowlers by Habibul.
10)Fielding setup not in accordence with the bowlers point of view

Overall i would say Bangladesh cricketers dont learn in the field itself after being hit in the same area for more runs.For example, Strauss was hitting in the same area and there was no plan to stop him.