Damn it, Bashar (Mod: The Official Bashar Bashing Thread -other merged here)

[cracky]

Every time Rana performs, Bashar drops him. What is the prblem with this guy. Now he is again saying he will use Chacha instead of Rana. I keep telling we have no other pacer than Mashrafee to take advantage of English condition. Also chacha is not the chacha we used to see earlier. He is OUT OF FORM and OUT OF AGE.

If Bashar really drops Rana again and bring chacha back, it will be a blunder. I know Bahar is not a good captain. But if he brings back chacha, he will not be a good man either. Come on, every time this kid performs good cricket, you brought him back sideline. Its not good for him. Not good for our cricket.

Also Bashar, if you have learnt enough, bring back Aftab at #3 position.

Edited on, July 1, 2005, 2:11 AM GMT, by RazabQ.
Reason: too many bashar bashing threads - just lumped y'all together :)

[bd4life]

Chacha has to be played if Bashar wants to keep his job and his well being intact. People who know anything about BD cricket and BD politics know quite well how much power this old hag yields and the reasons behind it. It's the same reason why BD decided to play that loser Shanto in what was perhaps the most importat game in BD history and decided to hand over the cup to India.

[amra_korbo_joy]

Originally posted by cracky
Every time Rana performs, Bashar drops him. What is the prblem with this guy. Now he is again saying he will use Chacha instead of Rana. I keep telling we have no other pacer than Mashrafee to take advantage of English condition. Also chacha is not the chacha we used to see earlier. He is OUT OF FORM and OUT OF AGE.

If Bashar really drops Rana again and bring chacha back, it will be a blunder. I know Bahar is not a good captain. But if he brings back chacha, he will not be a good man either. Come on, every time this kid performs good cricket, you brought him back sideline. Its not good for him. Not good for our cricket.

Also Bashar, if you have learnt enough, bring back Aftab at #3 position.

you are correct.
I think it is time to find another captain who understand the situation and do the right thing.

[couger]

Originally posted by bd4life
People who know anything about BD cricket and BD polIt's the same reason why BD decided to play that loser Shanto in what was perhaps the most importat game in BD history and decided to hand over the cup to India.


.........most important game in BD history? I hardly think so. And please don't call players names. Shanto did his best and it wasn't good enough. He didn't buy his way into the team, he was merely a pawn in the grand scheme of things.

[bd4life]

Originally posted by couger
Originally posted by bd4life
People who know anything about BD cricket and BD polIt's the same reason why BD decided to play that loser Shanto in what was perhaps the most importat game in BD history and decided to hand over the cup to India.


.........most important game in BD history? I hardly think so. And please don't call players names. Shanto did his best and it wasn't good enough. He didn't buy his way into the team, he was merely a pawn in the grand scheme of things.

It was clearly the most important game to me because BD could have won an ODI series against India which is far more important than winning just 1 game against India or any other team. As for Shanto, he didn't buy his way through he just kissed the right people in the right places to get in. Shanto's best might be good enough for u but it sure as hell isn't good enough for people like me who want the BD team to actually someday start winning regularly.

[Faisal]

rana? he is useless... even sometimes i wonder why rana get chance.... chacha is much better than rana.. so good job bashar!!:bravo:

[feisal]

hey, my name sake..i disagree..

chacha at the moment is hardly better than anyone!! sad truth... he is now as bad as he was in 87/88..his initial year..if anyone remembers.

but we are emptional and may give him a chance to say farewell.. it will ruin his day even more.. not playing and retiring is little bit better than palying and taken apart.. wish i was wrong about the latter...

***but were you joking or serious?

[theTiger]

bd4life shanto is not a loser but u r!

[bd4life]

Originally posted by theTiger
bd4life shanto is not a loser but u r!

He is the biggest loser that has played in BD team within the last 5 years in a team that included Chacha. And since u don't know me personally or professionaly I will not dignify that childish remark with an answer.

[gravitY]

Originally posted by theTiger
bd4life shanto is not a loser but u r!

i totally agreee... shanto was the best bowler at his time..

[RazabQ]

it never ceases to amaze me, the amount of vitriol directed at Bashar. Seriously, you guys should read between the lines of interviews of Dav and other players as well as Bashar. HB has tactical limitations - he was never groomed to be a captain, never skippered at any level before the nats - but that's only 30% of the job. 40% is ppl management and the other 30% on self performance. Bashar scores highly on these last two. The other 30% he's growing into. We always berate him for not being agressive or dynamic on the field - to that I say look at Hussain and his recent statement re Dav. Hussain with his conservative, nay -ve captaincy (e.g. Giles to Tendu's leg stump), built up this English squad, made them hard to beat, and allowed his matchwinners grow up. Now Vaughn is reaping the rewards. Bashar in that sense is a caretaker as well; he's there while the Ash, Aftab, Enam, Masree mature. As for the tactical stuff, he's growing onto it - perhaps his deference for Dav is actually a hindrance here; I can't believe him claiming that the last ODI was the 1st time he had to read the pitch and decide on strategy.

[abu_akif]

Originally posted by amra_korbo_joy
I think it is time to find another captain who understand the situation and do the right thing.

Who is that other captain? Is it Sujon, or Pilot, or Faruq for names sake, or Durjoy, Nannu, Bulbul, Akram Khan etc etc etc...... Please tell me who is that captain that you are looking for...

Or are you thinking ASH or Masree or Afatb to be the cpatain now..

Come on guys, Sumon has his limitations, but he is the bst option we have now in our team as the captain..

[Niceman70]

Its not Bashar..its the TIME.

[couger]

Originally posted by bd4life
Originally posted by couger
Originally posted by bd4life
People who know anything about BD cricket and BD polIt's the same reason why BD decided to play that loser Shanto in what was perhaps the most importat game in BD history and decided to hand over the cup to India.


.........most important game in BD history? I hardly think so. And please don't call players names. Shanto did his best and it wasn't good enough. He didn't buy his way into the team, he was merely a pawn in the grand scheme of things.

It was clearly the most important game to me because BD could have won an ODI series against India which is far more important than winning just 1 game against India or any other team. As for Shanto, he didn't buy his way through he just kissed the right people in the right places to get in. Shanto's best might be good enough for u but it sure as hell isn't good enough for people like me who want the BD team to actually someday start winning regularly.

Please read the posts carefully before babbling on. I said Shanto's best WASN"T good enough. He can kiss a million behinds but that doesn't mean he should be in the team. Blame the people who put him there not him. Any athlete would scoop up chance to represent his country.

As far as you assertion of that being the most important game, that is purely your opinion and you're entitled to it so I'll leave it at that. But the reason you gave can be applied to any game and any series.

And everyone here wants BD to win on a regular basis--it is not a unique phenomonon to "people like you" as you say.

Edited on, June 30, 2005, 11:48 AM GMT, by couger.

[cracky]

I know there is currently no alternative as a Captain other than Bashar. But seriously whats the problem with him? Why he does not learn from mistake and experience?

1. Chacha issue: Taking Chacha was a greate mistake, as I said earlier. Bashar gave a great reward to Rana for playing well in last game. Chacha is about to retire, he has nothing to give more. Why we are making him more ashamed?

2. Aftab issue: Bashar still did not realize that Aftab would have been better utilized in #3 positon. He was doing well at #3 in the last series, and here even after Aftab's consequitive failure in that position, he never thought of bringing him up the order. Other selectors decided to play Aftab at #3 in last two mathces. But Bashar still send him lower down the order.

3. Fielding Issue: This is a poor performance as a captain. In the field he always seemed to waiting for something to happen. He was almost always very diffensive. Today when Mashrafee was brought back in second spell, Atahar was telling that Bashar should use at least a slip now. But Bashar still was using diffensive field. Then when a catch went through the slip and became four, then he brought up the slip. A good comment was made by commentator Naseer Hussain at this point:

"As a captain you have to create a situation, not react to it."

4. Toss Issue: Well, I know toss is a luck issue. But so does the whole cricket game. 8 consequtive games, 8 tosses and you loss all 8. Come on. We need someone more lucky as Captain. This toss issue alone is very silly to say something agains Bashar. But adding up with the other issues he has, I have got to say: there is sure some problem we need to look at.

If you guys have more issues which I forgot to mention, please feel free to add up.



Edited on, June 30, 2005, 5:35 PM GMT, by cracky.

[schowdhury60]

With the Sujon situation I feel bad for Bashar. If/When politics stops influences selection policies for Bangladesh, Bangladesh will be able to develop strongly. I agree we shouldn't blame Bashar, and even though I often scream at how crap Sujon is I agree with Couger we should not blame him either. We should blame and burn the people who put him there as they are ultimately harming our progress immensely!

[TheWatcher]

Well, I can't tell you for sure, but I have not seen any pacer getting any benefit from all that grass Bashar was talking about.

[BangladeshFan]

i am still a fan of bashar as a test batsman and i think he still can merit his place as a batsman in ODI team. But i think he just should not captain the team any more. Here are some reasons

1)poor team selection. even though coach/manager has some say, the captain is also part of selection process for team 11. his intent on playing 3 pacers has backfired terribly but he hasnt learnt. what was astonishing was that even before this match started he made up his mind of playing chacha(farewell?) and then he just made the excuse there was grass on wicket. how can you drop the best performing player of the previous game for someone who was completely smashed around?? bd is whipping boy of cricket , how can captain of such a team afford this luxuary that too against Aus. I can guess what his response will be, "we proved we can beat australia, what else to gain from this tournament?". he has too soft an attitude to be captain of the bottom ranked team.

2) his poor arrangement of batting order. aftab likes balls coming to bat and was completely wasted at number 6. again i think i can guess what he was trying. he was trying to protect aftab by using tushar as sacrifical goat. problem is it didnt help tushar or aftab. the wicket was playing easy when ODI tournament started, but bashar was still thinking of test series batting debacle.

3)his poor fielding placement. even when bd won against australia, his captaincy was criticised by commentators for poor fielding placements. not to mention the other games against england when collingwood/strauss was batting, he had absolutely no clue.

4) his poor handling of bowlers. he is scared to innovate. he never tries to do something different. even when bowlers get slaughtered he just keeps on his formula. the most glaring fault is he never tries the 6th bowler. i think he always tries to calculate how many overs going to who and it becomes too hard for him to take 6th or 7th bowler into equation.:D he used asharful once. last ball of the tournament, did it benefit ash or the team?

it is high time he should be relived from captaincy. pilot can be reinstated, rafiq may also be given a thought. but i think it will be a wrong message if bcb keeps bashar still as captain, because he will think he can get away with whatever he does.

[cricman]

Originally posted by cracky
I know there is currently no alternative as a Captain other than Bashar. But seriously whats the problem with him? Why he does not learn from mistake and experience?

1. Chacha issue: Taking Chacha was a greate mistake, as I said earlier. Bashar gave a great reward to Rana for playing well in last game. Chacha is about to retire, he has nothing to give more. Why we are making him more ashamed?


Mahmoud did well in his first spell going 6 overs and giving up 22 runs with a Wicket. He also got an 22 with the bat with an SR of 100.

I agree with you about aftab, moving up to 3.

[cricman]

MOD'S should merge the threads

[gravitY]

i think we should stop talking this crap. we've had enuf discussion over it.. now it's time to Stop. no one else would be a better choice for captain over Basher at this moment, and i think he's not doing as bad. he's has to work in his limitation and teams limitation. we don't have a team like England or AU, we've to keep that in mind before we say anything.

[cracky]

[i]
Mahmoud did well in his first spell going 6 overs and giving up 22 runs with a Wicket. He also got an 22 with the bat with an SR of 100.


In the end you have to count how much runs he gave in total. ODI is not about a single spell.

Rana would have been much better both in bat and ball.

[Bat-PadTogether]

Yes Mashud the captain again.Today when Ponting was out the whole world except the Aussies wanted to bring in some close in fielders to put some more pressure,but our dull captain Bashar has other ideas!They took so many singles!What the hell Bashar was expecting?We needed wickets! Just worst field placings!Sack Bashar!Iam sure he will bat well.:down::down::down:

[reyme]

Bashar's captaincy is hurting the team. Experiencing his repeated mistakes are just unbearable. Too many examples are out there for his silly mistakes. Just give him a cell phone and SMS him what to do when. I cant take this anymore.

[Bat-PadTogether]

Originally posted by gravitY
i think we should stop talking this crap. we've had enuf discussion over it.. now it's time to Stop. no one else would be a better choice for captain over Basher at this moment, and i think he's not doing as bad. he's has to work in his limitation and teams limitation. we don't have a team like England or AU, we've to keep that in mind before we say anything.

Have you ever played cricket?I know it hurts you because you are his supporter! Didnt you heard any thing what the Skysports and BBC Commentators said!Enough is Enough!We need a captain you has got fighting spirits!

[Bat-PadTogether]

Has anybody got Bashars cell phone number??:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[BangladeshFan]

shanto was quite a good player 6-7 years ago. most people would have remember him as "one ball one run" from that kenya game. so he was very much remembered as a winner not a loser. but taking him all on a sudden after a layoff was not a good decision.

[Bat-PadTogether]

Bashar is a dull captain!Chacha never deserve to be in the playing eleven ahead of Rana! Did you heard what Mike Gatting was saying while Chacha was bowling??? Just Disgusting and Embracing when he was bowling no ball and wide! It was horrible at the end when Chacha mis field which cost us 3 runs!

[Bat-PadTogether]

Khaled Mahmud 10 0 54 1 (1nb)

[Ahmed_B]

OK threads merged!
cracky.... please avoid creating different threads on same topic.
Thanks

-Mod

Edited on, June 30, 2005, 6:20 PM GMT, by Ahmed_B.

[deshpremi]

As a player, Basher is great to watch when he is on song, but as a captain, Basher is not the finished article.
When Australia were 3 wickets down and the field restrictions were lifted, Basher took the easy route and opted for defensive field placements hoping that the batsmen would make mistakes and get out.
Unfortunately this does not always happens and the result was a very comfortable win for the Aussies.
Had Basher been a little brave and persisted with more agressive field placings, the one's and two's would have dried up and surely the batsmen would have become more and more frustrated and definately would have tried to go over the top to keep up the run rate and in doing so, would probably have lost more wickets.
Also, what was the thinking behind giving Ashraful a bowl when they needed just ONE more run.
Why didn't he try him earlier?
Eighther Basher should re-assess and change his tactics as a captain or should give the reigns to some one else and concentrate on what he does better.

[RazabQ]

Originally posted by BangladeshFan
rafiq may also be given a thought.
With this one simple statement you have illustrated your cricket nous - or lack thereof!

As for those who want Pilot - see my % breakdown post above. Pilot might have nous, but his ppl skills are lacking compared to Bashar's. Generally speaking keepers don't make good captains - focusing on their glovework is too draining. That's why Gilly has declined and why asides from Taibu, there are no international skippers who are keepers. Simply put - there is NO one else who warrants a regular place in the BD side and who's captaincy material until the younger generation matures.

Team Selection: Some of you apparently don't read the excellent articles and literature out there. Bashar himself said that selecting Rana for the Englang game was the _first_ time he'd read a pitch and chosen a player - so on all this selection issues, your beef is with Dav, Faruk & Co as much as with Bashar. Chacha actually bowled alright today and on today's pitch with the rain expected, dibbly dobblers offered more wicket taking potential. We all know Bashar captains by the numbers - there are worser sins!

Some claim, and rightly so, Bashar is a reactive captain - have you followed Chanderpaul's captaincy recently? Or Nasser "you should have a plan" Hussain's leadership when he actually _was_ skipper? Gee - having Giles bowl outside Tendu's leg-stump... how Jardinesque! You try going to game after game knowing that 99% of the time you are going to get hammered and then come back and tell me how aggressive a skipper you'll be after the umpteenth loss. TVr shamney boshe to onek montobboi kora jay!

I swear to god, even Rana lovers are more rational than these Bashar haters.

[abu_akif]

Bashar could not have gotten us a win, unless we have quality bowlers. Do you think, Vaughan, or Graeme Smith, or Gangu Dada could have won such a match with bowlers like what we have?

Complaining about Bashar is becoming a fashion in this forum, please stop it. Unless we have more quality bowlers like Masree and Rafiq, our captain will never be able to become aggressive..

[AsifTheManRahman]

we lost because our bowling sucks. 250 was pretty defendable actually.

[BangladeshFan]

whats a nous? have u seen rafiq as a captain, i guess not, so u r merely assuming things. thats why i said he should be given a thought, the core reason is that it should pass a should pass a message to bashar that his captaincy is pathetic.

as for glovework being too draining, have you ever played cricket? there were many good keeper captains around the world. a keeper usually is in a good position because he sees the field from same positon as batsman , also knows quite well how someone is bowling. pilot is probably the only one who warrants a regular place not bashar.

as for team selection, captain always has a strong say deciding the final 11. so bashar cant just avoid his responsibility by saying he doesnt have a say. for your "expected rain" and chachas devastating medium pace,:lol: bashar already made up the reason a day before the game by saying there is grass on wicket. bottom line is he already made up the mind to play chacha in his farewell game.

>>I swear to god, even Rana lovers are more rational than these Bashar haters. << thats quite rational of you :saint: who do u think are "rana lover" or "bashar hater". rana merits his place in one dayers by his performance alone. i like bashar batting as well. but bottom line is that doesnt make me support his captaincy.

[Bat-PadTogether]

We need some more Mashrafees!Tapash,Nazmul all are just club level bowlers!Rafique hasnt the control in his bowling?Maybe needs little bit more loop or some more flights to trouble any batsmen! If we checked the runs yesterday in the begining we should have a win.A real chance missed!:up:

[cricman]

when they were 83/3 we should of gotten them to 100/5

[AsifTheManRahman]

rafiquerey captain banaile bd teamer ekta playerero matha mathar jaygay thakbe na...kharap khellei hoise...bat diye pitay matha fatay dibe...erokom manusher captain howar konoi dorkar nai...

and if u guys hate bashar so much why don't you just go to the stadium and shoot him with a gun? like they did to escobar?

u think giving the captaincy to someone else will make things better? dol bhalo korleo shojjo hoy na...kharap korleo shojjo hoy na...why change something that works? do you expect us to win/ do good in every match? well if you do, then find some quality bowlers first. ball korte na parle steve waughrey anleo kono kaam hobe na.

[Mav]

Originally posted by deshpremi

Had Basher been a little brave and persisted with more agressive field placings, the one's and two's would have dried up and surely the batsmen would have become more and more frustrated and definately would have tried to go over the top to keep up the run rate and in doing so, would probably have lost more wickets.


Exactly what i was thinking dirung the match.

Not only in this match, but Bashar did the same in other games which created no pressure on the batsmen.

For example, did u see how Australia set a strong fielding for Symonds around Bangladeshi batsmen in the match where we lost by ten wickets? That`s pressure, which often helps, or atleast lowers the run rate ----> making batsmen play risky shots.

Deshpremi, I completely agree with you. And this is also true that we dont have much quality bowler.

Today -

* What was the point of giving masrafee the ball in the 46th over, when Australia need 11 runs and have been scoring 7-8 runs for last 9-10 overs.

* These 7-8 runs a over (from over 35 to 44 i believe) were played ONLY by rafique and mahmud, again and agaiiiiiin. WHY????

*Masrafee and Tapash had 4 overs in pocket. Use them when 11 runs to win ?????

Why not give some variation? Batsmen , who stayed at the crease for hours, SIMPLY GOT USED TO Rafique and Mahmud.

Anyways, just my thoughts. It felt like Bashar always making some mistakes in field.

[BD Tigers]

another useless thread on Bashar...

[James90]

What changed the game was Mahmud's fulltoss which Clarke hit for six, but 250 was always going to be difficult to defend on that pitch with short boundaries.

[IanW]

Ya know, I think there was less whining when the team was losing.

Whine whine JO doesnt get out whine whine Bashar isnt aggressive enough whine whine JO gets out cheap whine whine too many runs given up whine whine whine

Ian Whitchurch

[RazabQ]

Originally posted by BangladeshFan
whats a nous?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nous
nous
n 1: common sense; "she has great social nous" 2: that which is responsible for one's thoughts and feelings; the seat of the faculty of reason;
Originally posted by BangladeshFan
have u seen rafiq as a captain, i guess not, so u r merely assuming things.
more important, has anyone? This is a guy who runs with the bat at the coach, risks injury while trying to catch a spiky fish while swimming in the Caribbean. A man whose answer to any question on bowling gameplan is "ami amr moto koira line n length e bowl koira jamu". A guy who speaks in Khash dhakaiya and nothing but. Has anyone ever seen him part of the BD think tank on the field ala Pilot, Rajin, Chacha and even Belim? As RI said, he wouldn't even know the names of the bowler he is smacking. I've met Rafique bhai - he's a shohoj shorol manush (with a wicked temper) who happens to be a natural athlete. No one - except someone who lacks an iota of cricketing nous - would even think of him as a captain.
thats why i said he should be given a thought, the core reason is that it should pass a should pass a message to bashar that his captaincy is pathetic.
So let me get this straight. My management knows that _I_ know I am the default best person for my role. My management wants to give me a motivational kick in the pants. So they come to me and tell me that they are thinking of replacing me with someone who is highly unsuitable for the position and has a patchy disciplinary record to boot. That's what you are essentially suggesting right? Brilliant tacti this. The only message I or any normal person would get is that my particular mgmt is the ultimate illustration of the Peter Principle.


as for glovework being too draining, have you ever played cricket? there were many good keeper captains around the world. a keeper usually is in a good position because he sees the field from same positon as batsman , also knows quite well how someone is bowling.
I've played a fair amount of competitive cricket as many of the regular members here know, so I am not talking out of my pacha. Give me examples besided Taibu. I agree with you that wicket keepers have a great read on the game. In the Paki team; Selim Yousouf and then Moin Khan; in Windies, Dujon; in Australia, Marshy, Healy, Gilly; In South Africa Boucher; in NZ Parore; all of these are examples of keepers who were respected by their peers and the media and fans as well as mgmt for their shrewd cricketing brains. Yet mgmt also understood that those brains are best utilized as a Vice captain or snr player. That's why a Grame Smith or Polly goes over Boucher. Why Fleming, even tho Parore was sr. to him, got the captaincy. The examples abound. The few instances such as Rashid Latif or Moin Khan or Lee Germon or Alec Stewart as skipper were not very succesful or had other factors. (e.g. Rashid was made captain cuz he was thought to be unbribable, Stewart was always a batsman who happened to keep and even then he had to give up his opening role quite begrudgingly to take on the captaincy, and that too when Athers buggered out) The instances of highly succesful wicket keeper captains at the highest (Test) level are rare, despite the natural tendency of keepers to be good readers of the game - this is not an accident.


pilot is probably the only one who warrants a regular place not bashar.

http://www.banglacricket.com/History/worldcupprobereport.php
Go read section 2.3 and then come and tell me what you feel Pilot has over Bashar.


as for team selection, captain always has a strong say deciding the final 11. so bashar cant just avoid his responsibility by saying he doesnt have a say. for your "expected rain" and chachas devastating medium pace,:lol: bashar already made up the reason a day before the game by saying there is grass on wicket. bottom line is he already made up the mind to play chacha in his farewell game.
Since I don't claim to have a bat-line to the Bangladeshi team meetings, I'm not going to comment on when minds were made up or not. I can only go by what is publicly available and as someone who devours pretty much everything written or said on the team, I'm fairly comfortable in my hypothesis that when Dav is around he's the big Kahuna when it comes to gameday decisions.

by RazabQ
I swear to god, even Rana lovers are more rational than these Bashar haters. thats quite rational of you :saint: who do u think are "rana lover" or "bashar hater". rana merits his place in one dayers by his performance alone. i like bashar batting as well. but bottom line is that doesnt make me support his captaincy.
I confess that last para was me venting so yes I'm not going to claim any rationalization behind it. :) You got me fair and square :) Rana merits a place when the pitch and conditions suit it. Even India plays with 3 seamers in England - even back when their seamers were crap! I'd refer you to my article on spinners in England but that would be self-serving. As to Bashar's captaincy, you fail to present any credible alternative; there is none at present.

[RazabQ]

Ian, we have so many wannabe captains who think they can do better here. This is fast approaching Ganguli-bashing proportions!

[wasim_admirer]

Bashar as a batmen is still probably the best in our team. Obviously when Ashraful pulls, he is a class act.

But Bashar will need to play for BD team for long time to come but to change captain now would be naive because we really don't have players in the same bracket as Bashar.

[RazabQ]

As myself:
Since threads have been merged, I figured I'd flog the dead horse once more :)

http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/viewthread.php?tid=13020#pid212368

[James90]

Originally posted by Bat&PadTogether

Have you ever played cricket?I know it hurts you because you are his supporter! Didnt you heard any thing what the Skysports and BBC Commentators said!Enough is Enough!We need a captain you has got fighting spirits!
Bashar has easily the best captaincy record out of any Bangladeshi ever and quite a few of those wins have been close finishes so don't tell me he has no fighting spirit.

[James90]

Generally speaking keepers don't make good captains - focusing on their glovework is too draining. That's why Gilly has declined and why asides from Taibu, there are no international skippers who are keepers.
Gilchrist wanted to be captain and puts his hand up everytime Ponting is unavailable, he never declined.

Mashud is a contstant performer, a fighter and is always talking encouraging the bowlers. That makes you a good team player, not a good captain. Mashud was found lacking big time when he was captain. His field settings weren't much better and he had no concept of bowling your best bowlers in the death overs.

[RazabQ]

The ideal Bangladesh Captain attibutes:

1) Has fighting spirits. Be able to take on 11 ppl simultatenously, Bruce Lee style. Actual tiger claws and stripes on the back are a bonus.

2) Shrewd tactical brain - kinda Mike Brearly, Mark Taylor and Imran Khan's brain combined. Must be able to reduce the opposition team to blathering idiots. MENSA membership a plus.

3) Must be very aggressive - preferably some Steve Waugh DNA. Alos must attack at all times. Will banish positions such as long off, long on, sweeper/cover etc from his vocabulary. Only think in terms of slip, gully silly midon and what not.

4) Must be full of gala-gali to the opposition players. His glare must be able to make Mathew Hayden crap in his pants.

5) Must be a fabulous Batsman. Bradman's average, Gilly's bat speed, Shewag's power and Tendu's shot selection.

More requirements to be mentioned later. If you meet the first 5 conditions please contact a HB and tell him he's fired.

[RazabQ]

Originally posted by James90
Generally speaking keepers don't make good captains - focusing on their glovework is too draining. That's why Gilly has declined and why asides from Taibu, there are no international skippers who are keepers.
Gilchrist wanted to be captain and puts his hand up everytime Ponting is unavailable, he never declined.
Oops meant to say Gilchris'ts candidacy was declined - by CA. They want him to focus on keeping and batting.

[shaoun]

the fact is bashar will remain captain. bcb wouldnt dare change him with another captain anytime soon. we cannot afford a captain like saurov ganguly(good captain sucks as a player) we just simply cant afford that. we need a captain who can perform and has enough experience to lead the team. beside bashar only two people can become the captain and one is rafique. rafique has enough experience as a player and his place in the team is stable. but i dont think rafique is captain material which is why he was never considered for the job. and other is khaled mashud. he is the most underated player in the team and played great innins for our team many many times. when he was the captain he also lead from the front. but the team didnt perform well at all. he was also faced with disciplinery problems. beside them two non of the young guys should be tried to lead the team any time soon. rajin was tried well we all know how that turned out to be. now he doesnt even make it to top 11. nafees masrafee shariar nafees has chance to be the captain but they are just too young.so for now bashar is the best choice that we have. and unless something dramatic happens i dont think he will lose captaincy position until 2007 world cup.

[rafiq]

from the DS today:

"I'm going to meet my brother in the US after eight years. This is also the first time I will not go home straight after a series. But I'm sure the 14 hour flight back will not be as boring as they usually have been for the most of my teammates," said Bashar.


where does his brother live - some of you can drive to his house and personally ask habibul to quit....

[Up_From_The_Underground]

Whether we like it or not, he is our BD captain. He can't make everyone happy every time. I don't see any other player in the team to be a captain any time soon. He is not doing a bad job. Nobody wants to do bad on the filed. Considering a young team, there will be a long learning curve. So be patient... Tigers will roar again and agian....

[Ahmed_B]

Bashar is not a very aggressive captain.... that's true. But at times our bowling is letting us down too very much! And Bashar or any other captain can't solve that. In this way.... Bashar is having to take more blame then what he actually deserves (like... bad fielding placement or bad bowling rotation in some matches).

[oracle]

Habibul Bashar needs to look closely at the slip fielding and the matter of who gets to stand where. Too many times fielders at the wrong spot or at the wrong time. This is a an aspect of his captaincy that can be corrected without too much fuss.
However, as a captain he is the best choice for the time being as the others are simply not up to it, even some of the young guns. I just feel that Nafis Iqbal will be a cap someday for sure - don´t know when?

But nevertheless another worrying issue.:(

[BangladeshFan]

even though, cricket is not played in research papers, i will try to answer to some of your so called points. u r probably the one who tries to use lots of references and statistics to his own advantage. but one should know stats can be used in the way that one presents it.

if u have read my post carefully, i didnt present rafiq case strongly, but pilot more. the reason is bashar should not be able to get away simply because "there is no alternative". it will give out a wrong message. i tend to think u have figured that out as well, but well who wants to give up his stand??:P

u may have played lot of "competitive" cricket but when u speak out of your "sense" u tend not to show it. gloves work is too draining to be a captain<< a wk is 1 in 11 in a team, but there are lot more instances of wk captain than it should be(>8%) do u think all those wk were bad as captain? what do u think is the difference between captain and vicecaptain?:lol: anyone can go the captain and suggest, doesnt have to a vc to do it.

at the moment i think pilot is the best alternative for bashar. what is the use of reading so called probe reports? bd did terribly in WC because the whole team played poorly(lost to canada) not because of pilot only.
we tend to find scapegoats, bashar is certainly not a scapegoat because the tournament was some sort of success. against him the complaints are well thought oout and came from best heads of the game(botham, holding and co).

as i said he cant avoid responsibilty by saying he doesnt have the say. >>rana should be selected when conditions suit him<< well u preety much figured it out there like your dibbly dobbler shujon in "expected rain". :lol: who will doubt that rana is a better bowler than chacha or nazmul except some dreadful "rana haters"?:umm: india did try 3 pacers in england but the only test they won there was when they tried 2 spinners and 2 pacers. but surely indian pacers are lot better and experienced than bd pacers.

i think your bottom line is bashar should be there as there is no alternative and as i said at the start of the thread, that wont be the right decison. bd should go for pilot as captain. but i doubt it, bcb doesnt have the guts to make strong decisions just like bashar.

[RazabQ]

Originally posted by BangladeshFan
even though, cricket is not played in research papers,Buck (Aus coach) would beg to differ.
u r probably the one who tries to use lots of references and statistics to his own advantage. but one should know stats can be used in the way that one presents it.Well than why don't you dig some up and show me?
if u have read my post carefully, i didnt present rafiq case stronglyThe very fact you present it shows you know not what you speak of :)
, but pilot more. the reason is bashar should not be able to get away simply because "there is no alternative". it will give out a wrong message. i tend to think u have figured that out as well, but well who wants to give up his stand??:PAnd I've already pointed out the fallacy of your argument from a management pov

u may have played lot of "competitive" cricket but when u speak out of your "sense" u tend not to show it. gloves work is too draining to be a captain<< a wk is 1 in 11 in a team, but there are lot more instances of wk captain than it should be(>8%) do u think all those wk were bad as captain? what do u think is the difference between captain and vicecaptain?:lol: anyone can go the captain and suggest, doesnt have to a vc to do it.Again, show me the data. Or give instances of your playing days. I can.

at the moment i think pilot is the best alternative for bashar. what is the use of reading so called probe reports? bd did terribly in WC because the whole team played poorly(lost to canada) not because of pilot only.we tend to find scapegoats, This tells me you are unwilling to put in the hard work to back up your assertions. If you had read the report you would have known that Pilot was NOT being made the scapegoat. Again, go read the report and then come and talk to me about Pilot as a skipper.
best heads of the game(botham, holding and co). And none of these gentleman were succesful captains. They are talking heads. I've already given an example of Mr. expert, Hussain's captaincy fallacy. You so far have failed to give any specific exampls or data. FYI, you don't notice any of Bangladesh's retired players calling for Bashar's head or complaining. Perhaps they know something that you and I don't.

[BangladeshFan]

Originally posted by RazabQ
Buck (Aus coach) would beg to differ.
u r talking about someone who is coach of the no.1 side in the world. even though he doesnt write research papers but his ideas are sometimes laughed at "Ambidextrous players".
Well than why don't you dig some up and show me?
the mere fact of the number of wk captains (>8%) show they usually are good readers of the game and thus make good captains.

And I've already pointed out the fallacy of your argument from a management pov

i havent seen any argument in your post so far .

Again, show me the data. Or give instances of your playing days. I can.
show you data of what? how many test innings u need to play to know u dont have to be a vc to suggest to captain on the field?:P


And none of these gentleman were succesful captains. They are talking heads. I've already given an example of Mr. expert, Hussain's captaincy fallacy. You so far have failed to give any specific exampls or data. FYI, you don't notice any of Bangladesh's retired players calling for Bashar's head or complaining. Perhaps they know something that you and I don't.

well if botham, holding or hussain are just talking heads and u think ex bangladeshi players are more credible than them(u r assuming their silence as positive) i have nothing more to say:lol:


Edited on, July 2, 2005, 1:34 AM GMT, by reverse_swing.
Reason: Deleted last paragraph. There are ways to express yourself without insulting people. Please be respectul to the differing opinion

[deshpremi]

Just because some of us want our captain to be more agressive in the field when there is a chance of winning a match do not make us "Basher haters"
Some people in this forum are too emotional and sometimes appear very immature in their responses .
If you do not agree with some one's perception of the appropriate tactics that should have been used in the middle, according to the circumstances of the match at a crucial juncture, then just say you disagree.
There is no need to start ranting and raving like a lunatic to convey a simple or valid point.

[Zunaid]

Originally posted by deshpremi
Just because some of us want our captain to be more agressive in the field when there is a chance of winning a match do not make us "Basher haters"
Some people in this forum are too emotional and sometimes appear very immature in their responses .
If you do not agree with some one's perception of the appropriate tactics that should have been used in the middle, according to the circumstances of the match at a crucial juncture, then just say you disagree.
There is no need to start ranting and raving like a lunatic to convey a simple or valid point.

Good point. The post above yours is a good example.

- as myself

Edited on, July 1, 2005, 11:31 PM GMT, by Zunaid.

[left-hander]

Originally posted by RazabQ
it never ceases to amaze me, the amount of vitriol directed at Bashar. Seriously, you guys should read between the lines of interviews of Dav and other players as well as Bashar. HB has tactical limitations - he was never groomed to be a captain, never skippered at any level before the nats - but that's only 30% of the job. 40% is ppl management and the other 30% on self performance. Bashar scores highly on these last two. The other 30% he's growing into. We always berate him for not being agressive or dynamic on the field - to that I say look at Hussain and his recent statement re Dav. Hussain with his conservative, nay -ve captaincy (e.g. Giles to Tendu's leg stump), built up this English squad, made them hard to beat, and allowed his matchwinners grow up. Now Vaughn is reaping the rewards. Bashar in that sense is a caretaker as well; he's there while the Ash, Aftab, Enam, Masree mature. As for the tactical stuff, he's growing onto it - perhaps his deference for Dav is actually a hindrance here; I can't believe him claiming that the last ODI was the 1st time he had to read the pitch and decide on strategy.

well said!! you really understand bangladeshi politics in cricket.

[Duck]

Originally posted by left-hander
[quote]Originally posted by RazabQ
................................. I can't believe him claiming that the last ODI was the 1st time he had to read the pitch and decide on strategy.

Oh my goodness............then for the next pitch to read we have to wait for another bad news from Dav's family so that he leaves the team at Bashar's hand!!!? Is it a good practice to groom our captain!!!?

:duck:_pion

[BangladeshFan]

well said deshpremi. hard to grasp what is the meaning of "bashar hater" or "rana lover". i like bashar's batting(sometimes) but critical of his captaincy. instead we may very well coin out phrases like "bashar lover" or "rana hater". dropping the best performing bowler for the least performing one, what else can you say?