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View Full Version : "Talent without temperament is nothing, just nothing..." Sunny Gavaskar


KaaL-PurusH
April 16, 2006, 10:52 AM
“Talent without temperament is nothing, just nothing. It’s simply useless.” Sunil Gavaskar said it during this series.

I think, the selectors and players should understand everything from dis.

We've seen enuf. We've taken huge patience 4 last couple of years. Now the time has come to change the scene. Time has come to change the outlook and strategy of selectors. The selectors and supporters has depends enough on so-called talent. The selectors should change their mind and take some strict decision.

The selectors should stop their automatic selection of some so-called talented (and gutless) players in team. They should make competitive condition for players to get selected in team. Don’t make the NATIONAL JERSEY cheap to players. Let them understand that NATIONAL JERSEY isn’t his father’s asset. They can’t get it easily. They have to fight for that and participate in competition with others. They have to set their mind in this way.

The selectors should arrange some trial match before team selection for any series. In those matches who will perform, only he will get selected in team. No matter he is JO, TAMIM IQBAL, AZAM IQBAL or HALIM SHAH. We need some performers, damn it!!!

We have seen enough SHOW of talented players. We are bored now. Dear selectors, please change the scene. We don’t have more patience to see our talented batting collapse. Give us a break!

Please apply the TRIAL MATCH strategy before team selection. Even India applies it often. So why don’t we? Let our talented players learn some lesson.

Rubu
April 16, 2006, 11:08 AM
What does gavaskar know? :o

form is temporary talent is permanent - always remember that.

Shaan
April 16, 2006, 11:12 AM
Thats a big problem now a days evidently catching peoples eyes. Our selectors must pay attention on the sake of national interests then our so called talented which of them are really not helping but becoming hardle for other probable match winning or emerging players. Those useless talented people are not leading the bd team from the front instead ruingning the reputation of the bd cricket.:mad:

Shaan
April 16, 2006, 11:14 AM
What does gavaskar know? :o

form is temporary talent is permanent - always remember that.

EXCUSE me what do u know?
Gavaskar the man leading the indian team from behind, in that team world's some most solid batsman are playing and Gavaskar himself a legend:mad::E

KaaL-PurusH
April 16, 2006, 11:25 AM
What does gavaskar know? :o

form is temporary talent is permanent - always remember that.

r u sleeping???...wat r u talkin about???...does Sunny mention anything about form??...

ur logic isnt appropriate here...coz...im not talkin about FORM...im talkin about temperment of our players...

BonBon
April 16, 2006, 11:33 AM
What does gavaskar know? :o

form is temporary talent is permanent - always remember that.

You better check your IQ. Gavasakar isnt talking about form - he is talking about temperament, something working in the mind that tells stupid bums like bashar or ashraful what shots not to play even after hundreds of failures.

I am just fed up. When will these bumpkins wake up and play sensibly?

amra_korbo_joy
April 16, 2006, 11:33 AM
Gavaskar is anti Bangladeshi guy. He is against our test status. Do not trust him.

cricket_pagla
April 16, 2006, 11:35 AM
temperment.. talent... ishtyle.. solid defence.. not test match material.. or wat eva!...
1 thing we need frm our batsman... datz.. consistency & score runs... there'll be bad ball... there'll be bad decision.... but wat i wanna c iz.. try our batsmen 4 runs.. did u guyz c... wat Gillespie's expression.. whn S.Nafees out?!....

Zobair
April 16, 2006, 11:40 AM
I think Ash realised straight after what a horrible shot he played! Anyways, my solution to players who play too many shots early on would be to make them play with a handicap e.g. until one reaches 30 no flick across the stumps through mid-wicket...no guiding down thirdman till 50...if anyone flaunts the rules...regardless of the result of the shot, runs or otherwise, the player should be handed down some form of punishment.

Zunaid
April 16, 2006, 11:48 AM
Before y'all go ballistic on Rubu, do remember that little linguistic artifice called sarcasm. Let me spell it out. S-A-R-C-A-S-M.

Rubu and Sham has a nice little "feud" going on about "Alok" and "Rana".

Hence his little riposte about talent vs form.

Go read that other thread. Amusing reading.

cricketboy
April 16, 2006, 01:26 PM
Ash should perform every series in order to get selected for next series. :mad:

AsifTheManRahman
April 16, 2006, 02:02 PM
looks like we're gonna have full enrollement in Sarcasm 101 this fall...boy are the freshmen dumb or what.

mildwind
April 16, 2006, 02:39 PM
I dont know who is our friend or foe. But Sunil has made a good point. I mean it is true in every aspect of life. Talent without skill is useless. To be successful, skill only matters the most, regardless of talent. If you have talent you may succeed. But if you have necessary skills you will certainly succeed. Do not rely on talents.

Also it is good point that national jersy should not be made cheap or even permanent. It wont bring competeness among players.

Saleh has been showing his temperment, not the talent. He has been successful. I hope our selectors will understand what sunil has been trying to say.

real123
April 16, 2006, 02:50 PM
I never liked Gavaskar- the guy had been always biased in his comments. And he ( along with other commentators) were always BD's fault finders. They were just waiting for a situation like this to start complaining. Who gave these guys the rights to talk about our selections, don't they have enough materials in their own team? Even in the first test, these guys did not give enough kudos to BD perfromance.

As for selection process, I think we are almost in the right track. We should have a pool of players and fresh blood should be given chances based on domestic, A-team's consistent perfromance. There is a huge difference between playing in national level vs domestic level. Believe me, I also had similar feeling but later saw the perfromances of some the players in international level and decided may be this is not the right way. (example, Faisal Hussein(?) Dickens, Shaheen Hossain (WK) etc. Even see, Murtoza had century in domestic league and see how he is performing in batting.

Long post but could not help myslef as I am as much frustrated as others in this forum with so called talented player's shot selection !!

Flipper
April 16, 2006, 03:51 PM
Gavaskar is the kind of guy, who will comment on every single match of BD with pre-conceived ideas. Nothing will please him. I am sorry to say, but it doesn't take a rocket scientiest to figure out how bogot he is.

He has a valid point here, and he has valid points when comments, no doubt. But, the manner in which he addressES BD team with the "I have no respect" attitude, it's no surprise his listeners also have a "I have no respect for you" attitude. As he said it last night " Bangladesh needs to wake up", as if we were slepping since we beat India in the boxing day match, all I have to say to Mr. GavI is, YOU NEED TO WAKE UP, SIR!

BonBon
April 16, 2006, 03:52 PM
It was not about Gavaskar - It was about the statement. What talent is talent when a talent gets a second class in exam because the talent was unmindmindful in the exam?

I dont like Gav Manjrekar and especially Rameej Raja who looks like an asian dracula in black suit. But dont you think they have some truth - our player are blind idiots who never ever ever learn from their mistakes. Why would you call a person a talent when he takes 50 matches to score a century? We dont need talent, we need hardworking boys who can stay out there at the crease.

ammark
April 16, 2006, 04:22 PM
Whether Gavaskar is friend or fiend doesnt matter. He has more experience and success in world cricket than our cricket team combined. If he criticises us, then we only have ourselves to blame for not improving. Plus, it didnt take a rocket scientist to understand what he said. We all saw it coming from much before. We have endlessly been talking about Ashraful's talent, Aftab's talent, Nafees Iqbal's talent, Tushar Imran's talent! Have ANY of them delivered consistently? Not even Rajin did that before the Kenya tour! Please dont be picky, we have only ourselves to blame.

Flipper
April 16, 2006, 04:48 PM
I have no respect for any bigot. I will never try to promote such people or their comments in a forum. We all know what this phrase means, our players knows it too, but it appears that some of the forum members are finding its importance now because it came out of Mr. Gav's mouth.

Look, our players know this game better than us, and that's why they are there. We just have to be patient before we get the basics in order. Until then, we can enjoy our progress, or believe what Mr. Gav believes - we are a bunch of losers.

howzatt!
April 16, 2006, 06:35 PM
Gavaskar is anti Bangladeshi guy. He is against our test status. Do not trust him.

i can't really agree with this. i've heard gavaskar highly praising nafees, habibul bashar, rafique... in the first test and rajin saleh in the both tests. he also didnt refrain from trashing BD when they collapsed in the second innings of the first test and first innings of the second test. although at times his words seemed harsh, but what he said were true and i think he was pretty neutral. same goes for ravi shastri. the one who really gets on my nerves is harsha bhogle. it seems like he's always waiting for BD to perform bad.

mshakir56
April 16, 2006, 07:22 PM
We should drop Ashraful, Aftab, and Javed just to teach them a lesson about playing for the national team. These guys think the national jersey is cheap, so they don't give a damn.

AsifTheManRahman
April 17, 2006, 12:36 AM
hmm...now ownder this comment comes from a guy like gavaskar...remember that 60 - over 34* in the first world cup? :p

on a more serious note, he does make a valid point here. i'd rather have, say, 5 saleh's, or even bashars, as opposed to 5 slashers who come as an Eid blessing twice a year.

anyways, let's see how the batsmen do in the second inning.

zakirc
April 17, 2006, 12:39 AM
Talent without temperment may become handy in ODI, but in test matches there is no alternative for temperment and this applies to each and every player. Despite me being a big fan of Ash's talent, I too agree we need to keep him out of a few test matches just to send the message that his talent alone does not win him a position in the National Test Squad.

As for msshakir56 including JO in his thread .. all I can say is yet again, the one innings that he went out cheaply (Without seeing off the new ball) ... Bangladesh tumbled to a below 200 score.

PoorFan
April 17, 2006, 01:15 AM
Why care what Gavasker says? Isn't it so obvious?

Don't you think our selectors would have replaced Ash, Aftab or Iqbal IF they had other options in hand? Even in this forum every body know about "talent" and "temperament" which Gavasker meant. Who else we can bring in? Tushar? Alok? Rokon? Rahim? Sakib? Tamim? who else? Any body will love to see any one in the team who perform consistent, but is there any? except those so called "talented" bunch who perform once in a while?

Having said that, Gavasker or who ever it is, had a valid point, our management must have to do something! I am not telling to drop or shuffle the team here, our players BADLY need a batting and bowling coach. I certainly believe this will help BD team a lot, and BD will certainly become a good force in test.

Sovik
April 17, 2006, 04:12 AM
i never liked gavaskar but what he said is true.

AussieFan
April 17, 2006, 07:09 AM
What does gavaskar know? :o

form is temporary talent is permanent - always remember that.

Excuse me !!! What do Y O U know ???

Form may be temporary but is required during a match. When form ends, the player gets dropped and another talented in-form player comes in.

AussieFan
April 17, 2006, 07:11 AM
This is not about Gavaskar, friends. This is about talented players not performing !

Hatebreed
April 17, 2006, 07:30 AM
Nothing wrong with what Gavaskar said. True, he says a lot of harsh things, sometimes unnecessarily but it's no worse than some of the things we say right here. The actual topic of this thread is "talent without temperment is nothing, just nothing..", which is stating obvious.. not so important in ODI. Aftab is a perfect example. On the contrary Rajin Saleh is starting to prove he has both talent and temperment, on top of that he is in form!

Rubu
April 17, 2006, 07:31 AM
We desparately need a box like quote to say sarcasm :wow: ;)

AsifTheManRahman
April 17, 2006, 08:22 AM
i don't see why people would start bashing gavaskar for no reason. he makes a valid point here, whereas people go on to bash him for being anti-bangladeshi and stuff. do we HAVE to smell conspiracy everywhere? distasteful.

sadi
April 17, 2006, 08:30 AM
what he said was true... don't kill the messenger.... I am sick of seeing talented ash underperform when someone like rajin who gives out 100 percent everytime eventhough he is not as talented as ash.... test cricket is not easy my friend... one needs to work hard to make it... talent alone don't cut it

Tigers_eye
April 17, 2006, 08:42 AM
If I have said the same comment I am sure flipper and others would have supported me wholeheartedly, knowing that I am a Bangladeshi and I want the best for Bangladesh. Just because the comment is coming from Gavaskar people with a preconceived notion is opposing to it, knowing very well it is the truth.

Try to look at the message and see if there is any flaw and then argue. If you concentrate on the messenger you also become biased just like him.

Miraz
April 17, 2006, 08:54 AM
Gavaskar made a very valid point. Remember he is the man with 10,122 test runs, 34 centuries with a career avg. of 51 and he is chairman of ICC cricket committee. Please don't challenge his cricketing knowledge.
Talent can make success easy but one need temperament to achieve that success. One may have little talent but great temperament and determination will ensure success for him. This is true like anything.

Tigers_eye
April 17, 2006, 08:56 AM
lets start a poll who is better.

Ash or Gavaskar?

I am sure even gavaskar would say ash is more talented than me. :)

HereWeGo
April 17, 2006, 12:51 PM
Gavaskar is anti Bangladeshi guy. He is against our test status. Do not trust him.

Ur suggestion is completely outrageous. He always supported Bangladesh cricket and always looked for positives in our game even when we were struggling. I am sorry for not backing my statement with an example but i am sure if u have watched enough Bangladesh matches in the past u'll notice that Gavaskar always praised us. He is one man who is definately not Anti Bangladesh.

Thirdman
April 17, 2006, 01:22 PM
“Talent without temperament is nothing, just nothing. It’s simply useless.” Sunil Gavaskar said it during this series.


Looks like we are getting distracted from the core point of discussion here. Whether Gavaskar says it or someone else does, and whether it is said to hurt Bangladesh's Cricket or not, what he said is quite valid. You can always open another thread - if you like - for Gavaskar bashing.

Going back to "the point", Ashraful is such a talent that even Indian cricket journalists are comparing him with Sachin in some cases. But what good he is doing to us (none of his test centuries produced win for us)? He is making us "dare to dream" for sure, but he HIMSELF is shattering that dream almost every match! He never has the temperment to stay and finish the job!

There are countless examples lfrom Ash and other players in the team when they failed for the lack of temperment.

One thing that frustrates me is, how do you train for temperment? May be the one year break from test will help - if we can get them to play 4 day matches domestically, against our A-team and also may be against Zimbabwe.

shimraj
April 17, 2006, 05:00 PM
I fully agree with Gavaskar's comment. I don't care whether he is anti-BD or whatever. In test matches you must have temperament, period. No matter how brilliant a batsman or bowler you are. Here are 3 fields where BD is lacking seriously.

1. Temperament: I think no one will doubt about this. If you play excellent in 1st innings and think your job is done, then you are history. If you play badly in the 1st innings and then think it's over, then you are history. if your opponent pass any comment towards you and you get upset and start playing wreckless, then you are history. These are few examples of temperament. In addition to this you have to be analytical and tactical in your game. If you fail to analyse the situation at hand, then you are history. A very good example is Bashar's out in the 1st innings. He played two successive boudaries off Gillespie. If you noticed carefully, Gillespie's two deliveries were exactly identical and Bashar played exactly identical shot. Now here comes the analysis part. Gillespie delivered an exactly identical ball on the 3rd delivery but this time he put a fielder where Bashar played the previous 2 shots. Here comes where BD lacks the analytical part. Bashar instead of playing a different shot played exactly the same shot to the amusement of AUS players and got caught. Have you ever seen Ponting or Gilchrist going couple of feet off the off-stump to play any shot? You haven't because they have good temperament.

2. Respect: I don't know whether anyone has noticed it or not. One of the 'talented' players of our side play as if we are the no. 1 and AUS is the no. 10 team. If you want to be a good player, in whatever sports, you have to respect your opponent however strong or weak they are. Have you seen any Aussie player taking off their helmets when spinners were introduced? You haven't because they respect their opponent. One may argue, but it's either arrogancy or disrespect. It's simply not courteous.

3. Accountability: The top most batsman of the Sri Lankan team once asked about the secret of his success. Do you know what he said? He said, I always play as if I might be dropped from the next match. So that gives me the drive to play my best. So, when one of the 'talented' players in our side think that his place in the team has been set in stone and no one's father can get him out of the team, then you loose the very essence of accountability. If there is no accountability players are bound to play loose shots, unnecessary shots. I can guarantee, if Whatmore says tomorrow that I have a big pool of players waiting for a chance to be in the team, so if any batsman plays any loose shots, bad shots and jeopardise the team's position, he will be dropped from the next match, you will see 100% efforts from 100% players and the status of the team will go through the roof.

Flipper
April 18, 2006, 08:23 AM
If I have said the same comment I am sure flipper and others would have supported me wholeheartedly, knowing that I am a Bangladeshi and I want the best for Bangladesh. Just because the comment is coming from Gavaskar people with a preconceived notion is opposing to it, knowing very well it is the truth.

Try to look at the message and see if there is any flaw and then argue. If you concentrate on the messenger you also become biased just like him.

Cats_eye,

You didn't get what I said! Please read my posts above one more time. As I said it, there is truth to what Mr. Gav said, but what I didn't understand is the fact that why our fans are going so nuts over what he said as if our players and fans never realized the meaning of such sayings.

Trust me, had Ravi Shastri said something like this, I would have posted it myself.

Tigers_eye
April 18, 2006, 08:50 AM
Flip,
I may not have gotten your point the first time, but reading your post again compelled me to write the following.

In two post you have called Gavaskar a Bigot. Don't call him a bigot. You are setting examples for others in this forum. He has done world cricket a favor by playing the game the right way. In the first post you talked about beating india. (that is in ODI) Gavaskar is not talking about ODIs. He is talking about Test. No one in this forum is going nuts just because the comments came Gavaskar. With the test performance BD is displaying (unnecessary outs when Gillespie scores a century in 300 balls) everyone has the right to lash out.

Flipper
April 18, 2006, 09:01 AM
Look, Shane Warne has done a lot to the game of cricket, and I don't know how many would care what he says!

Yes, that was an ODI, but I clearly see the progress from that moment on. You can say our first test win was against lowly Zimbabwe, but what about the first test against Sri Lanka, what about the first test against Australia this year? We are on a learnig curve, and the curve is never linear, you will see zig-zags. You can't say Bangladesh are sleeping right after the test where BD dominated for the most part.

Flipper
April 18, 2006, 09:18 AM
By the way, I mentioned the boxing day match because I watched part of that game last sat just to feel good after the disappointing day. What I found is that Mr. Gavs demenor towards BD remained the same while commenting in both of the games. I was really wondering what would BD have to do to change it.

rudro
April 18, 2006, 09:53 AM
আমার একখান কথা শুনবেন আপনেরা? এটা অবশ্য আমার কথা না। বড় কোন হোমরা চোমরার কথাও না। এই ফোরামে অনেক গুনীজন এই কথা অনেকবার বলেছেন।
"আমার ট্যালেন্ট দরকার নাই। আমার দরকার রান আর উইকেট। রান আর উইকেট না আনতে পারলে আপনি আপনার ট্যালেন্ট নিয়া বাসায় চইলা যান। সেইটা প্লেটে রাইখা প্লেট ধুইয়া পানি খান। এই কেরামতিতে যদি আপনার ব্যাটিং-এর বা বোলিং-এর কোন উন্নতি হয়, তাইলে আবার আইসেন।"

sadi
April 18, 2006, 09:59 AM
good one rudro

rudro
April 18, 2006, 11:05 AM
good one rudro Thanks, Sadi. Amar kintu kon talent nai bhai. gayer jore shob korte hoi.

Locutus
April 18, 2006, 11:11 PM
Don't listen to Gavaskar. I respect him because he was a great cricket player, but this guy has terrible personality on air. Yes, he might be right. But I think he is a racist ba$tard. I don't think he wants to see Bangladesh beating any nation in cricket.
The other day I was watching day 2 of 2nd test. One of the commentator mentiond that the pitch looks good for batting it is better then the Dhaka test match pitch. He started talking about how much better Pakistani and Indian pitch were.

SMHasan
April 19, 2006, 07:21 PM
যেই কথাটা বলে থাকুক না কেনো ঠিকই বলেছে। সবচেয়ে বড় কথা হচ্ছে চোয়ালে চোয়াল রাখা।গিলেস্পি যদি সেঞ্চুরি করতে পারে তবে কেনো আমরা পারিনা? তা ও সেঞ্চুরি নয় একেবারে ডাবল সেঞ্চুরি!কতটুকু আন্তরিকতা থাকলে এটা করা যায় ভাবতে পারেন? হারার আগেই হারাটা ঠিক নয়।৪/৫ উইকেট পরে গেলে যে সব-ই হারিয়ে ফেলতে হবে এমন কোনো কথা আছে নাকি? কিন্তু আমাদের ৪/৫ উইকেট গেলেই শেষ।এর কারণ হল আমরা লড়াই করতে চাই না বা কিভাবে করতে হয় তা জানিনা।

AsifTheManRahman
April 19, 2006, 07:29 PM
He started talking about how much better Pakistani and Indian pitch were.


so what's wrong with that?

Bancan
April 19, 2006, 07:37 PM
so what's wrong with that?
exactly wats wrong with that.
and i fully agree with gavaskar's comment mentioned in the beginning of the thread.