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jabbar
April 20, 2006, 01:33 AM
Everyone always describes Ashraful as "talented" or "gifted", and players such as Rajin Saleh as players with "temprament" and who perform well.

Well, I want to set a proper definition for the word talent. A teleneted pleyer is someone who performs. And to perform well, you need temprament and application - none of which players such as Ashraful possess. Talent is something which should be associated to someone who actually achieves something. True, Ashraful's magnificant century against the Aussies in cardiff achieved a great thing, but Ash just doesn't achieve regularly enough to suggest he is talented. I'm sure a player like Rajin could decide one day: "right, I will play every shot in the book today and hopefully they will pull off, I will score a big hundred and win my team the match". Perhaps someone like Rajin could think like that and resemble a player such as Ashraful. But the point is, he doesn't. He makes a conscious effort not to play haphazardly, and play consistently - WHICH IS WHAT THE TEAM NEEDS.

There's my 2 cents.

Mr-Cricket
April 20, 2006, 01:51 AM
Sorry mate (I don't want to sound anal), but I can't agree with you. We hear all the time of players that never "lived up to their potential". Talent has less to do with 'performance' and more to do with 'potential'. I mean look no further than Sachin Tendulker and Vinod Kambli. Both were extremely 'talented', but only one of them actually lived up to his promise.

>As for Rajin, even at 24, the guy has loads of potential and I wish him all the best. He (along with S.Nafees) could really give us what we've been missing all these years - 'consistency'.

DotBall
April 20, 2006, 01:57 AM
Can't agree with you there "jabbar". Your definition of Talent sounds more like an established professional. Mr. Cricket on the other hand has it about right.

We have enough talented palyers within our squad but not enough brain to go with.

jabbar
April 20, 2006, 02:06 AM
I think this issue is a matter of interpretation and mentality.

In terms of interpretation, "talent" for me is runs on the board: a true and tangible indication of talent are results and results alone. Talent for the above posters (whose opinions I respect) is seen as "potential talent", all a bunch of [edit] if you ask me. "I'll believe it if I see it" is the motto I am pushing here.

In terms of mentality, the use of the word "talent" seems to be bandied around on this forum willy-nilly. Any "up and coming" player is labelled talented if he plays some audacious stroke, or miraculously scores a hundred in a crucial situation (*hint hint*, Mr. Ashraful). Everyone seems to be looking for potential rather than performances on the board. Take Bashar for instance. He is undeniably the most successful BD batsman, yet we never once say he is "taleneted". True, Ash gets a lot of stick, but even in his stupidest performances, we cling on to the promise of his "talent". The mentality bit I refer to is this - we give less creedance to "runs on the board" stuff than we ought to.

Jabbar

Fazal
April 20, 2006, 08:15 AM
To me Talent is like cheap talcom powder used by people to cover their obvious deficiencies that they are ashamed of

Sorry
April 20, 2006, 08:32 AM
welcome back Fazal bhai. we missed you.

SS
April 20, 2006, 08:32 AM
:confused: talent could be defined so man yways. You gota be specific.

Talent of BD players, I believe that what you meant. Talents like smiling even you loosing, standing like a moron in the field looking at the watch when lunch will come, it could be also posing for a modeling pose with a smile. Also talent could be scoring two copy book shots make the crowd crazy and next ball you loose your middle stick. Talent could be playing in league and scoring tons and then getting called for once but scoring zero. Talent could be the power of mesmarizing and getting "hooked" up with big Uncles to get a position in the team and stay there doing same thing and getting "cash" and "fortunes". Talent could be the producing great performance and getting reported by media as the worst team. Hey ppl know us what else we need to do. Talent could be hooking,pulling, sweeping for few fours that are not done successfully against test arena bowlers, hey we pull and hooked jodhu for six fours on a row, why not pulling, sweeping Warne, lee. Comn, we are tigers they are kangaroos. Talent could be bowling straight two days and not letting Gillepsie leave the field playing 425 balls.
There are plenty of talented work by talented individuals that are presented in talented team. But the best of all these talents and talentive work is the most talented batsman who can talentively reverse sweep the most talented leggie of another most talented but effective team of the world.

Ato talent shob "allaui" gelo :confused:

sadi
April 20, 2006, 08:35 AM
Talent holo jeita bangladesh dole oneka ase and usually amra sheta duiya pani khai...

Rubu
April 20, 2006, 09:05 AM
Talent is to score 89*

Tigers_eye
April 20, 2006, 09:07 AM
Classic reply Fazal, SS, Sadi, and Rubu. Rudro ki ei thread dhekey nai ekhono?

Spitfire_x86
April 20, 2006, 10:11 AM
Talent is something that Bangladesh seriously lacks. Ability of doing something is a talent, and the ability to do it consistently is another talent.

Many people show Kambli as an example of talented underperformer. Ashraful's interntaional performance has been nowhere near Kambli's performance.

Sorry
April 20, 2006, 11:34 AM
According to "BD Cricket dictionary'"Bd players can only understand the following words in specific interpretation:
tiger=pussey cat
talented= capable of playing a few fluke innings
consistent= capable of playing a few fluke innings in regular intervals.
motivation= win the match if there is 'car' to be won for man of the match
temperment= expert in secretion of excessive adrenalin hormones (3 times more than any other species).
skills= we are test playing country but we do not need to play bouncer. if you face in swinger, or straight ball use your pads. if you get out of lbw, its all umpire's fault.

(i posted this last year in one of my thread but could not resist posting it again.apology to the people who already had read it. it should be noted that my view is little bit more optimistic than last year)
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Mr-Cricket
April 20, 2006, 11:39 AM
talented= capable of playing a few fluke innings
consistent= capable of playing a few fluke innings in regular intervals.
motivation= win the match if there is 'car' to be won for man of the match

If you face in swinger, or straight ball use your pads. if you get out of lbw, its all umpire's fault.
Ahhhhh, that's hilarious! :D

sar2005
April 20, 2006, 03:11 PM
Brilliances + Temperaments + Applications = Talent (when you talk about cricket).

Do we really have any then? If we do, then what is Tendulkar, Dravid, Inzam, Younus, Ponting or Flintof or Kallis?? If they are talents, we can not call our guys talents, unless we classified talent types as Talent A, Talent B, Talent C etc. If we don't want to classify talent, then let's call BD stars as potential talents. They are naturally gifted but have not yet been established talents.

sadi
April 20, 2006, 03:13 PM
talent is something not everyone has... so either you have it or you don't... on the other hand, brain is something everyone has.... some choose to use it... while others like you know who.... they just ignore it

layperson
April 20, 2006, 03:42 PM
talent is the ease with which you can handle bowlers of all calibre.... the ease with which u can play all the shots in your repertoire......ppl call ashraful nd aftab talented mora then rajin bcoz they can play bowlers with more ease than rajin .... when they play shots they make it look easy .....a sign of talent .....however talent without temperament is no use to ne tteam as SG said .... but no one can argue tht ashraful nd aftab has talent ..... they can play all the shots against all the bowlers with maximum ease in the BD team ..... however them not performing is another issue altogether ... since the thread says what is talent i just gave my definition of it nd y ppl consider ashraful more talented than rajin..

Ishtylish cricketer
April 20, 2006, 08:36 PM
Talent to me also means potential and with the ease you can play bowlers but it also means that you can deliver some runs period. But playing great shots is a talent of one type and accumulating runs by playing safe is another type of talent as well. If you talk about only playing shots that no doubt Aftab and Ashraful are the most talented in our team but potential wise Rajin and Alok are right up there with the Aftabs and Ashrafuls. Being able to grind it out and making runs by working hard in the middle is a talent of another kind and by no means should be considered inferior.

layperson
April 20, 2006, 09:00 PM
Talent to me also means potential and with the ease you can play bowlers but it also means that you can deliver some runs period. But playing great shots is a talent of one type and accumulating runs by playing safe is another type of talent as well. If you talk about only playing shots that no doubt Aftab and Ashraful are the most talented in our team but potential wise Rajin and Alok are right up there with the Aftabs and Ashrafuls. Being able to grind it out and making runs by working hard in the middle is a talent of another kind and by no means should be considered inferior.

u said it urself being able to grind it out nd making runs in the middle by working hard ppl of this type r assets for the team bcoz they hv limitations nd work hard to grind out the runs .... tht is not talent but falls more in gritty nd determined... rajin falls in tht category but alok !!!!!!! :eek: ..... i m not sure ... but ppl who r talented nd perform make runs in the middle with relative ease ... look at ne innings of tendulkar or ponting ....... very talented nd consistent performers....they make runs which makes them consistent nd they make them with ease against ne opposition which makes them talented.... on the other hand if u take smone like langer in the aussie team ... he is all abt hard work nd determination .... not as talented as ponting but he is also a performer .... however playing lots of shots doesnt make smone a talented batter then rafique wud be the most talented batsman of BD .... it is the ease with which u score .... ex... ne of ashraful's big knocks .... even the hundred against aussies in cardiff was an effortless innings ... aftabs 82* against england was also similar ...... the problem with them is their brilliance comes to fore once in a blue moon ... i m not undermining rajin or other batsmen by saying they r not as talented as ashraful nd aftab ... infact it is more a compliment bcoz even being less talented he has a better average than those two which shows his determination nd hard work ....but i wud leave out alok frm ne conversation of mine ....but yes alok is also a talented batsman bcoz his runs when he did make them "once upon a time" came effortlessly .... however i dont want to consider him for the BD national team yet alhtough he is in the squad .....he had way too many chances nd not proven himself enough .... ashraful has played at least one match winnings knock in cardiff ....nd aftabs contributions down the order in tht match cannot be overlooked either ...

bop
April 20, 2006, 09:06 PM
I don’t know what the right definition of talent. But this is what I know. When our top order batsmen fail and Ash comes to bat, most of us don’t count him as dependable batsman who will save his wicket and play sensibly, instate most of us look for “ luck”. It is like tossing coin on the air and wait on our fate. On the other hand when Rajin comes to play, even though we know he may not be able to score a centur,y we know he can at least save his wicket for few overs more then others. That is what I call some one who is dependable. Rijin is some one who is dependable, Ash , on the other hand, he rides on his luck every time. If opposition drop catches, miss-filed Ash can go for a big score, if the opposition play well, Ahs became another history.

babubangla
April 20, 2006, 09:34 PM
Talent is a rearranged expression for something Latent.
For example, we say Ashraful has talent because he has some batting skills which are latent most of the time. In other words, when you bring good results- we call you a performer. When you can not bring the results you are supposed to bring- we call you a talented man!!

Zunaid
April 20, 2006, 09:57 PM
Mohammad Ashraful = Hmmm, Alas! Oh a fraud!

(for those inclined towards anagrams)

Orpheus
April 20, 2006, 10:10 PM
Mohammad Ashraful = Hmmm, Alas! Oh a fraud!

(for those inclined towards anagrams)

Zunaid Kazi = Z, u a nazi, a dik

LateCut
April 20, 2006, 10:33 PM
Talent is a fiction of collective imagination and wishful thinking of BD cricket fans regarding a brain-dead adolescence with a cricket bat who gets lucky once in a full moon.

Hatebreed
April 20, 2006, 10:51 PM
In MY opinion, talent is a natural ability, or quality. For a batsmen it can mean his ability to play a range of shots with confidence, timing and perfection, especially in different conditions, against different types of bowling, and ability to adapt to the situation with ease.

For bowling it means the ability to vary the pace, line and length, ability to deliver reverse swing/inswinger, yorkers, bouncers, etc 'effectively'.

PoorFan
April 20, 2006, 11:39 PM
In my definition a talent is, who apply his resource ( skill, knowledge, chance, etc. ) and produce possible maximum RESULT. In that sense all of our talented players are PART TIMER at best.

aosaif
April 21, 2006, 01:24 AM
The word "talent" has been so screwed up with its association with the bangladesh team that i just wanna spit out the word from my vocabulary. What's talent? Rajin spending 6 hours at the batting crease, that's talent! Is Ashraful a "talent?" Yes! But he's a talent we can do without right now because as sunil gavaskar said, "talent is nothing without temperment." I don't want talented players in our team, I want talented players WITH temperment.

Frost
April 22, 2006, 06:50 PM
Bangladeshi version of talent:

1/2 bouncer, 1 muth pace, and 1 chimti swing - tarpor Ashraful tar bat diya ekta ghuta dilei apni "Bangladeshi talent" peye jaben.

Omio
April 22, 2006, 08:20 PM
consistensy+ability= Tallent

jabbar
May 10, 2006, 12:33 AM
Talent = ability to get yourself in the tabloids every two months

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,5119588,00.jpg

Zaheed Mahmood
May 10, 2006, 03:50 AM
According to "BD Cricket dictionary'"Bd players can only understand the following words in specific interpretation:
tiger=pussey cat
talented= capable of playing a few fluke innings
consistent= capable of playing a few fluke innings in regular intervals.
motivation= win the match if there is 'car' to be won for man of the match
temperment= expert in secretion of excessive adrenalin hormones (3 times more than any other species).
skills= we are test playing country but we do not need to play bouncer. if you face in swinger, or straight ball use your pads. if you get out of lbw, its all umpire's fault.

(i posted this last year in one of my thread but could not resist posting it again.apology to the people who already had read it. it should be noted that my view is little bit more optimistic than last year)
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Mine is not really a reply to Sorry's posting but I am quoting it only because I loved the thorny sarcasm and I am glad that he decided to re-post it here again since I didn't have the pleasure of coming across it when he posted the first time!
Now as for my opinion on talent, I believe, it is about the gifted ability inherited by a person naturally. Though in rare occasion, Ash did show that he had the ability to handle well a variety of bowling from Murali to Harmison with great ease when he had only but a very few years into cricket and that’s what indicates the fact that he had the talent to be a good batsman! Certainly Aftab has the ability to do the same and so does Bashar (to different extent though), and I don't want to talk or compare here about who doesn't! However, the talent is wasted if someone doesn't groom it in the right direction! There is also another thing, a talent is acknowledged only in some early young ages, with some 7/8 years into cricket or the player exceeding 30 years of age, no one talks about the talent anymore but judges a player(batsman ) only by looking at what he has delivered (his record of runs)!!
Zaheed