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View Full Version : We need two separate teams for ODI and TEST


Fazal
April 20, 2006, 02:20 PM
I think its time for us to think about having two sepperate teams for ODI and TEST. I think most of our players are overwelmed by the requred high demand to perform constanly against quality opponents and environment for both form of games. Therefore they fail to adjust when we move from ODI to TEST and vice versa. I think we can enhance their change to perform better, if we simplify their task by assigning them to only one type of games (either ODI or TEST).
Each players should be individually evaluated and should be dropped into one of the two buckets (ODI or TEST) but not both. The only exception is for the exceptional players, who proved consistently that they have mastered one kind of game (ODI or TEST) with constant good performance, shown ability to adjust their playing style based on team's need and ready for new challenge. And only then they can fall into the 3rd category which is both (ODI & TEST).
I think that is the only way we can perform better. So based on their current performance I see the current pools of national players falls in the following buckets:


Bucket I: Only TEST
---------------------------------
Bashar (Test Captain)
Gullu
Shahadat
Enamul
Pilot
Nafis Iqbal
Tushar

Bucket II: Only ODI
--------------------------------
Mushfique
Ashraful
Aftab
Alok
Razzak
Rasel
Rana

Bucket III: Both ODI and TEST
------------------------------------------------
Shariar Nafees
Rafique
Mashrafee
Rajin

Notes:
1) Of-course this quick grading subject to further detailed and continuous evaluation.
2) Currently we may not have enough experienced players to fill up the two teams. Therefore some compromise needs to be done in short term. But the long term goal should be to create two separate teams. Only exceptional players with constant performance in both mode of game should only be in the 3rd bucket

Tigers_eye
April 20, 2006, 02:25 PM
I would have pilot in the 3rd bucket. Rest looks alright.

Who would be ODI captain? Rajin? He captained in scotland.

sar2005
April 20, 2006, 02:43 PM
Good idea. But do we really have that much talent (I should say performer) in our hand? Until we have 18 good performers, we can't imagine dropping Bashar,Pilot from ODI or Aftab,Ashraful from test.

By the way, why did you already lebel Tushar as a test player? I know he has temparment (at least better than Ashraful) for longer version. But he also has strokes to cope with ODI requirement, doesn't he?

Sovik
April 20, 2006, 02:49 PM
Its a good idea. in 2 or 3 years but not now.

Fazal
April 20, 2006, 02:51 PM
By the way, why did you already lebel Tushar as a test player? I know he has temparment (at least better than Ashraful) for longer version. But he also has strokes to cope with ODI requirement, doesn't he?

I added Tushar, Mushfiq, Razzak and Rana in the list because they were in final 14 in recent selection. Doesn't mean they deserve/established their postion in the final 11.

About Tusar you can put him in ODI instead of TEST, but not both at this time. He need to concentrate on one kind of form first to establish himself. Recent performance of Tushar in 4 day games with Sri Lanka-A promt me to think, if he can concentrate in TEST form, he may solve our crisis of TEST batsman. Bottom line: he needs to concentrate on one form of game not both (at this moment) to establish himself in the national team.

sadi
April 20, 2006, 03:01 PM
Not bad... who is the odi captain? I wouldn't bother Musfiq for another year or two with any international games... seems like he is not quite ready yet.... so here it goes:

Odi:

S Nafees
R Saleh
Aftab
M Ashraful
T Imran
Alok
K Masud
M Rafique
M Mortaza
A Razzak
S Rasel

Test:

S Nafees
N Iqbal
H Bashar
R Saleh
Mehrab jr (looks like he is the only one ready from under-19)
_____ missing someone here (Probably gonna use ash/aftab/tushar for now)
K Masud
M Rafique
M Mortaza
Enamul jr
Shahadat

cricman
April 20, 2006, 03:04 PM
You can't even put tushar in the same breath with Ashraful and Aftab. thats silly!

Fazal
April 20, 2006, 03:12 PM
You can't even put tushar in the same breath with Ashraful and Aftab. thats silly!

I don't think any one is trying to put Tushar in the same breath with Ashraful and Aftab.

The main goal of this thread is: To get better result from our players, we may need two seperate teams for ODI and TEST.

All the players that was selected recently in the Team of 14 (against Sri Lanka, Australia, Kenya) was slotted into three buckets which includes players like Tushar, Mushfiq, Razzak, Rana and Alok.

esteban_loaiza
April 20, 2006, 03:29 PM
There is no need for two different teams. Although it will keep selectors and fans like us busy to select teams, but it does not do any good to our cricketers. According to the lists given there have to be two captains which is, by the way, a bullshit idea for a growing cricket country like us. We just need to pick the best team under the specific circumstances. If we brand a certain players as test or ODI crickters we will just block the minds of present and future cricketers. By the way, what is the chance that we are going to pick right players? In the past, we branded Rafique as an ODI player, Golla and Rajin as a test players and etc. etc. Absolute bullshit.

esteban_loaiza
April 20, 2006, 03:29 PM
There is no need for two different teams. Although it will keep selectors and fans like us busy to select teams, but it does not do any good to our cricketers. According to the lists given there have to be two captains which is, by the way, a bullshit idea for a growing cricket country like us. We just need to pick the best team under the specific circumstances. If we brand a certain players as test or ODI crickters we will just block the minds of present and future cricketers. By the way, what is the chance that we are going to pick right players? In the past, we branded Rafique as an ODI player, Golla and Rajin as a test players and etc. etc. Absolute bullshit.

Fazal
April 20, 2006, 03:38 PM
Rajin and Rafique is a perfect exmaples why this may work. We need to assign (or as you said brand) a player in one form of game in their earlier career and slowly bring them to two forms (of game) if they are successful and not overwelmed.

Aftab, Ashraful, Gullu, Bashar are the other examples why over loading players from the begining (selecting them both form of game) may not work for our players. Most of them play ODI style in test matches or vice versa.

TheWatcher
April 20, 2006, 03:45 PM
This thread seems pointless to me- we are not playing Test matches for next one year. It is very likely that the scenario with our national team will be a very different one when India comes to tour us May next year. Until then, we need to utilize all our potential players in ODI format.

Beamer
April 20, 2006, 03:46 PM
Here is my best 20/20 XI...1. Tamim 2. S.Nafees 3 Aftab 4 Ash 5 Alok 6 Sakib 7 Rahim 8 Rafiq 9 Mashrafee 10 Razzak 11 Rasel

Miraz
April 20, 2006, 03:47 PM
Rajin and Rafique is a perfect exmaples why this may work. We need to assign (or as you said brand) a player in one form of game in their earlier career and slowly bring them to two forms (of game) if they are successful and not overwelmed.

Aftab, Ashraful, Gullu, Bashar are the other examples why over loading players from the begining (selecting them both form of game) may not work for our players. Most of them play ODI style in test matches or vice versa.

Man you are joking!! Gullu plays test in ODI style??? With a strike rate below 40!! Bashar's test average is almost 35 and strike rate 58. He is attacking but plays tests like tests not ODI. He takes the chances provided. Thats really required in tests.

Anyway it will take further 5-10 year to strat with different team in tests and ODI with diffrent captain, even India cannot afford that right at the moment. Don't be impatient, we have at best 15 players who can fit in international level. We have to reduce the number of mistakes and if we can do that we should be able to play test & ODI with almost same team with one or two changes.

Spitfire_x86
April 20, 2006, 03:49 PM
Good idea. It would be certainly necessary after WC2007, if not now. But why Golla is in the test bucket? He should stay 100 miles away from any kind of playing XI, if not from the team.

If I had to make two separate teams for ODI and Test team right now, my selections would look like this.

Bucket I: Only TEST
Bashar (Test captain)
Pilot
Nafees Iqbal

Bucket II: Only ODI
Mushfique Rahim
Alok
Razzak
Rana

Bucket III: Both ODI and TEST
Shahriar Nafees (ODI captain??)
Ashraful (ODI captain??)
Rajin (ODI captain??)
Aftab
Rafique
Mashrafee

Bucket IV: Experimental (will be tried in both forms)
Shahadat (Test permanent, ODI experimental)
Enamul (Test permanent, ODI experimental)
Rasel (ODI permanent, Test experimental)
Tushar (experimental in both forms)

Musfique Rahim: He should gain experience from playing ODIs. This will help him to become a worthy replacement for Pilot after a couple of years.

Enamul: It's always nice to have a complete bowler in the ODI team instead of Rana/Razzak. Sooner or later we will need him in the ODI team anyway. If he gets settled in the ODI side, then Rana/Razzak will be permanent bench warmers. Rana or Razzak will never be able to change the result of a match with their batting ability.

Tushar/Alok: One should play in the ODIs, depending on team strategy. With his possibly regained form, and handy bowling capability Alok should remain a strong contender for this place. If Tushar performs significantly better than Alok, and Aftab/Ashraful/Rajin can prove themselves worthy of bowling 10 decent overs regularly then he can totally replace Alok.

Aftab/Tushar/Ashraful: Depending on ODI & Test combined performance, two of them should be picked for tests. Personally I would very much like to do an opening experiment with Aftab in tests.

ODI team captaincy
Shahriar Nafees would be my choice. The possible future BD captain in Richard McInnes's eye. He has been also performing more or less consistently since his debut. Rajin was once given captaincy on a temporarily basis during ICC Champions Trophy, and he certainly didn't enjoy it. Ashraful, with his long experience in the national team and recent success in the domestic cricket as captain would be another possible candidate.

nsd3
April 20, 2006, 03:51 PM
We could also have separate teams for different conditions.
1. Team for Aus-NZ-Eng
2. Team for SA
3. Team for Ind-Pak-SL
4. Team for Zim-WI
!4 Million People and 4 teams do get along same way, don't they?

LOL!

Fazal
April 20, 2006, 03:58 PM
Man you are joking!! Gullu plays test in ODI style??? With a strike rate below 40!! Bashar's test average is almost 35 and strike rate 58. He is attacking but plays tests like tests not ODI. He takes the chances provided. Thats really required in tests.


Unfortunately I am not. If you read my quote
Most of them play ODI style in test matches or vice versa.., Gullu in general fallsunder or vice versa. However to fix that problem he is now a days trying to play TEST like ODI, check his TEST innings for 2006.

Regarding Bashar, he may have low SR, but I feel he suddenly forget that he is playing TEST not ODI, and that is creating all of his foolish outs (runout, trying to play same risky shot twice in the same place, getting out just before the session break, etc.

Regarding we don't have enough players and there will be no test for next 9 months, I agree. Thats why I said there should be some kind of compromise while transisioning into the two team format and I didn't set any timeframe when we should start the transformation.

Its just a conception (even though its nothing new or original that I can claim) that we can prepare for the future.

TheWatcher
April 20, 2006, 07:28 PM
Top scorers in the English twenty20 league are also the top scorers in their FC leagues. Generally speaking, a cricketer, who is good in the longer version of the game, should be also good in the shorter versions. Without good temperament, you can’t be a reliable player in any version of the game, and Test cricket is a good area to develop your temperament. Depriving some of our young players from chances to play in this format (provided they will try their best to make use of every opportunity given) will only hinder their maturation.

Also, Fazal, your claim that our players are overwhelmed with constant pressure to do well against other Test teams does not make sense to me- we have the least busy Test playing team after Zimbabwe has. The problem I see with them is the general lack of professionalism in any version of the game.

PoorFan
April 20, 2006, 09:10 PM
Good analysis and a good post Spitfire, you deserve some point.

Though I agree with Fazal on Tushar case, we have lot of middle order ODI player but lack in test, and Tushar seems to have that potential to fill middle order area in test. So, I think Tushar should concentrate on test playing first, and build up himself as a test player. If he become consistent with reasonable strike rate, then could be considered for ODI too. Besides, he may always get chance for ODI in case of existing ( Ash, Aftab, Alok ) middle order injury.

<!--StartFragment -->Welcome back Fazal, nice to see you around.:)

cricket_pagla
April 20, 2006, 09:50 PM
i think.. itz more likely..

Bucket I: Only TEST
---------------------------------
Shahadat
Enamul Jr.
Nafis Iqbal
Tushar

Bucket II: Only ODI
--------------------------------
Ashraful
Aftab
Razzak
Rasel
Rana

Bucket III: Both ODI and TEST
------------------------------------------------
Shariar Nafees
Rafique
Mashrafee
Rajin
Pilot
Basher
Kapali

Shakalaka
April 20, 2006, 11:01 PM
You can't even put tushar in the same breath with Ashraful and Aftab. thats silly!

Doesnt seem much silly anymore! We can keep sing one song about ASH as much we want. But reality is that they are not matured enough. The way he got out in the 2nd test, it felt like i am watching Nirman Cricket all over again.