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DJ Sahastra
April 26, 2006, 08:49 AM
Is it just me or do others feel the same way - that BD team looks like even more mess than before.

What were the management thinking while excluding both Asraful and Aftab? For god sake, JO maybe a good test player but a complete misfit in ODIs. He did play well in this match and i am not taking anything away from him. But this is as far as he is capable of going. And i'll be glad to be wrong. Resting Ashraful for a couple of ODIs, Ok. But Aftab too? And that too - to be replaced by Golla? Hell, how about picking up some teenage prodigy from the local league who can strike the ball cleanly? How bad would that be than to keep going back to the players who have limited capabilities?

And how about starting to accelarate before the RRR has hit the 8+ mark. You cannot let RRR to go to around 10 and expect late-order batsman to fill in. I would've loved to criticize Kapali, Rafiq, Razzak - but the match seemed over much before that. Mr Whatmore, do you have any plans and any suggesstions for the team in such situations? What do you draw your fat pay-cheque from?

And what about the catches? Mashud dropped a crucial Clarke catch. Kapali it seems had a caught and bowled chance from Symonds. I mean these are supposed to be the best catchers in the BD team.

Mashrafe's bowling and Bashar's batting have been the only silver lining in this match. But nothing to call as "improvement". The same old failings and the same old story.

And the same old mess!

istiak
April 26, 2006, 09:19 AM
When you don't know the reality then its better to keep quite!! Aftab was sick and unable to participate in this match...

sadi
April 26, 2006, 09:19 AM
Aftab wasn't dropped... he got sick in the morning and couldn't play.... yeah true I was also surprised to see javed's name in the lineup but ash really needed a lesson and I am hoping both aftab and ash will be back for 3rd odi

Miraz
April 26, 2006, 09:28 AM
DJ, I agree with you. The team management was very casual in approach. If Aftab has to be rested for sickness they should have taken Ashraful in place not Gullu. I am posting the same post here as it is very relevant..

We fielded a mediocre team today without any real match winner. Javed Omar, Tushar Imran, Alok Kapali, Khaled Masud, these players can hardly reduce the margins of our defeat and they did so on a number of times in the past, same thing happened today. We have a performer in Bashar but he is never a finisher. Absence of Aftab and Ashraful is key for todays failure. Basically in the recent matches we won, these two players have significant contribution either with bat or mentally. Ashraful was dropped for his own good but absence of Aftab was the main blow.

We should not dream of winning or even competing with world no.1 team with such a mediocre team. Bowlers did a splendid job to restrict aussies for 250. When Our 3 top batsmen failed we were reduced to 8/3, virtually the match was over. In absence of Aftab the only player who could have challeneged aussies was Shahriar Nafees. So, at the end of the day I have to admit its not a bad performance by the mediocre Bangladesh team.

Unfortunately we have taken a backward step.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Rabz
April 26, 2006, 09:33 AM
i thought the mistake was in the batting line up...
if the selectors opted for JO, when not send him in the opening slot ??

i guess it would have been a far more better option to play rajin at no 3, when we all know that he struggles against the lefti pacers....

and what was bashar doing sending tushar imran before himself...
and sending pilot before kapali..??

Kapali is by far a better batsman than pilot and whats the point of including him in the team if he bowls only 4-5 overs and bats at no 7 ??
what was his role ?? a bowler who can bat OR a batsman who can bowl ?

imo, the battin line up for today's match should have bn:

Nafees
JO
habib
rajin
tushar
kapali
rafiq
pilot
and the rest....

i guess our think-tank is making some strategic mistakes here....
hope they figure that out in the next match...

sadi
April 26, 2006, 09:36 AM
Good point sydney.... Kapali should've come up the order before Pilot and also Bashar should've bat at number 4..... I guess we have to let this game go because of ash drama and aftab's sickness but we should see a much better performance in the next game

Mr-Cricket
April 26, 2006, 09:50 AM
I totally agree with your batting order, Sydney, provided that JO is in the squad. Otherwise, Rajin is our only other rational option (Nafees is a given) as an opening batsman. I too would prefer Bashar batting at 3 (although he has said on many occasions that he is uncomfortable in this slot in ODI), and Kapali should definately come in before Mashud.

Just as a thought, I want to know what you guys think about this: My mate and I were discussing the other day whether or not it is time to include someone like Mushifiqur Rahim into the ODI squad (replacing Mashud/another middle order batsman). Clearly, Rahim features heavily in our future plans, and so this seems like the logical progression into the Test squad for the lad (he didn't have the greatest Test series against SL recently). Apparently he is somewhat of a strokemaker, and some say that he has the potential to make it as a #3 batsman in future, which is very positive for the team, considering Bashar won't be around in another 2-3 years. Personally, I want him to be a part of our World Cup campaign next year - so considering its probably too late now to draft him into the squad for the last ODI vs Australia (I don't want them to either), I'm thinking we should give him a shot at the Champions Trophy later on in the year?

Your thoughts? :confused:

Spitfire_x86
April 26, 2006, 09:51 AM
i thought the mistake was in the batting line up...
if the selectors opted for JO, when not send him in the opening slot ??
That's the only sensible thing they did in this match. SN/RS is a promising opening partnership and they should continue with it. Failure of one or two matches is nothing. They should keep the same opening partnership for the 3rd match and for next 3 match away ODI series vs Kenya before thinking about alternatives.

Spitfire_x86
April 26, 2006, 09:58 AM
What were the management thinking while excluding both Asraful and Aftab? For god sake, JO maybe a good test player but a complete misfit in ODIs. He did play well in this match and i am not taking anything away from him. But this is as far as he is capable of going. And i'll be glad to be wrong. Resting Ashraful for a couple of ODIs, Ok. But Aftab too? And that too - to be replaced by Golla? Hell, how about picking up some teenage prodigy from the local league who can strike the ball cleanly? How bad would that be than to keep going back to the players who have limited capabilities?
DJ, you probably didn't know that Aftab was pulled out at last moment due to cold. In that case, selectors should've changed their decision of resting Ashraful instead. Balance of the team is more important than "teching certain player a lesson". With Ashraful at #4 and Bashar at #3, we would have little more chance of making a meaningful chase.

Tigers_eye
April 26, 2006, 10:11 AM
We fielded a mediocre team today without any real match winner. Javed Omar, Tushar Imran, Alok Kapali, Khaled Masud, these players can hardly reduce the margins of our defeat and they did so on a number of times in the past, same thing happened today. We have a performer in Bashar but he is never a finisher. Absence of Aftab and Ashraful is key for todays failure. Basically in the recent matches we won, these two players have significant contribution either with bat or mentally. Ashraful was dropped for his own good but absence of Aftab was the main blow.

We should not dream of winning or even competing with world no.1 team with such a mediocre team. Bowlers did a splendid job to restrict aussies for 250. When Our 3 top batsmen failed we were reduced to 8/3, virtually the match was over. In absence of Aftab the only player who could have challeneged aussies was Shahriar Nafees. So, at the end of the day I have to admit its not a bad performance by the mediocre Bangladesh team.

Unfortunately we have taken a backward step.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
The answer of mediocre performance is in your reply.
"top batsmen failed we were reduced to 8/3" With the circumstances in hand, we fielded our best team. Noone is to be blamed for Aftab's sickness. For ash's absense the only one can be blamed is Ash himself not the selectors. I guess you have forgot the ICC trophy boundary by K Mashud.

DJ Sahastra
April 26, 2006, 10:12 AM
DJ, you probably didn't know that Aftab was pulled out at last moment due to cold. In that case, selectors should've changed their decision of resting Ashraful instead. Balance of the team is more important than "teching certain player a lesson". With Ashraful at #4 and Bashar at #3, we would have little more chance of making a meaningful chase.

No, i didn't. My mistake.

Aftab hadn't done too well in the previous game and i assumed he got dropped.

I agree, that if Aftab wasn't fit for the match, Ashraful is the logical choice.

Miraz
April 26, 2006, 10:16 AM
The answer of mediocre performance is in your reply.
"top batsmen failed we were reduced to 8/3" With the circumstances in hand, we fielded our best team. Noone is to be blamed for Aftab's sickness. For ash's absense the only one can be blamed is Ash himself not the selectors. I guess you have forgot the ICC trophy boundary by K Mashud.

Without Ash, Aftab and S Nafees the best possible Bangladesh team is a mediocre team indeed considering international standard of cricket. Please remember that was ICC trophy and Pilot is fit for ICC trophy as a batsman & we are talking about match with world champion. Pilot is a very good keeper & thats it.

Spitfire_x86
April 26, 2006, 10:24 AM
Without Ash, Aftab and S Nafees the best possible Bangladesh team is a mediocre team indeed considering international standard of cricket. Please remember that was ICC trophy and Pilot is fit for ICC trophy as a batsman & we are talking about match with world champion. Pilot is a very good keeper & thats it.
At international standard, Pilot is a very good keeper but not so good batsman. His only potential matchwinning batting performance in ODI was the 71* against Australia

We should give Mushfiq Rahim some chance in upcoming ODI serieses against Kenya and Zimbabwe. He can learn only by playing, and at this moment it's much more logical to make him play ODIs against weaker opposition than throwing him against the top class teams in Test cricket.

Tigers_eye
April 26, 2006, 10:27 AM
what was his role ?? a bowler who can bat OR a batsman who can bowl ?

I guess Alok's role changed as the match started. He was not having a good day out there. He was bowling wides on the Onside to clark where he was coming out and hitting it to the fielders. Thats the reason Bashar stopped after 4 overs when Tushar and Rajin was doing ok.

Coach has an influence on batting order. Alok is definitely a better stylish batsman. But the situation was 70/4 at the end of 20 overs. We needed someone to hold one side up. K mashud did his job fine. stayed there 20 more overs to steady the ship. So getting Mashud before Alok was the right decision at that time.

Tigers_eye
April 26, 2006, 10:41 AM
Without Ash, Aftab and S Nafees the best possible Bangladesh team is a mediocre team indeed considering international standard of cricket. Please remember that was ICC trophy and Pilot is fit for ICC trophy as a batsman & we are talking about match with world champion. Pilot is a very good keeper & thats it.
I see you are talking about international standard. Then I am afraid our players individually is mediocre at best. Cause averaging 18 to 25 is mediocre in the international standard. 30+ is what is considered ok.

Another thing, the 3 you mentioned: Did selectors drop Aftab from 2nd ODI? Wasn't S Nafees playing? So basically getting ash out of the lineup makes our team mediocre. In your mind this is a one man team.

Miraz
April 26, 2006, 10:47 AM
I see you are talking about international standard. Then I am afraid our players individually is mediocre at best. Cause averaging 18 to 25 is mediocre in the international standard. 30+ is what is considered ok.

Another thing, the 3 you mentioned: Did selectors drop Aftab from 2nd ODI? Wasn't S Nafees playing? So basically getting ash out of the lineup makes our team mediocre. In your mind this is a one man team.

Not really, you haven't got my message. As an ODI team we are no way near Aussies. To win ODI against them you need match winner and those three are the match winner. Aftab was out for illness, then selectors should have played Ashraful to keep a chance of winning. I mentioned SN as he was out second ball, so after his departure we had no real match winner or finisher left.

Shaan
April 26, 2006, 11:20 AM
Guys whatever you say bring Jo in the opening.. otherwise there is no one(no doubt anymore)to defend from the first ten over our wickets. Already seen all the mess, don't wanna see any mess!

Spitfire_x86
April 26, 2006, 11:30 AM
Guys whatever you say bring Jo in the opening.. otherwise there is no one(no doubt anymore)to defend from the first ten over our wickets. Already seen all the mess, don't wanna see any mess!
Today the difference between Javed and Tushar was luck. Javed could've been dismissed in the same fashion in the 2nd over of the innings (his 6th ball).

Tigers_eye
April 26, 2006, 11:52 AM
Today the difference between Javed and Tushar was luck. Javed could've been dismissed in the same fashion in the 2nd over of the innings (his 6th ball).

Admit it spitty, luck is part of the game.
Simple questions for you. Just a "Yes" or "No" would be do.

Was Gilchrist lucky in the 1st ODI to score 76?
Was Ash lucky to score 100 against Aus or 90+ against England?

Spitfire_x86
April 26, 2006, 12:04 PM
Admit it spitty, luck is part of the game.
Simple questions for you. Just a "Yes" or "No" would be do.

Was Gilchrist lucky in the 1st ODI to score 76?
Was Ash lucky to score 100 against Aus or 90+ against England?
Yes, it is. What matters more is the ability to make it count.

In Ashraful's lucky day we may have a realistic chance of winning the match. With JO, it doesn't matter.

Gilchrist + Luck > Ashraful + Luck > Javed + Luck

ammark
April 26, 2006, 04:59 PM
Coming out of the blue, here are my opinions:

Ash deserved to be rested. Now in light of Aftab's absence, they couldve stuck to him, but they didnt. Either way it doesnt matter. Given the average, we probably did as badly as we would've done WITH Ashraful.

The main problem was with batting line up. rajin is waayyyy more responsible in 1 down and middle order. JO and SN shouldve opened the Innings, then Bashar, Rajin and Tushar. Its pointless having two of your in form batsmen opening, and losing them in quick succession. It was once again upto Pilot and Kapali to steady the innings later on. The batting order should have been more spread out over our recent performers, thats what!

We can all argue about how Ashraful on his lucky day is brilliant, but the fact remains: He looks like a blithering idiot when he doesnt! Thats a risk our team took, and they didnt come out any worse! Their main fault lay in the line up they made!

IanW
April 26, 2006, 06:18 PM
Nahh, it's just the usual psychotic fans over-reacting.

Bangladesh are forcing Australia to play quality cricket in order to win.

Go read that again.

At the end of the day. each match has been won by Australia, not lost by Bangladesh - yes, there have been the usual mini-collapses and so on, but there has also been good, tight bowling, decent partnerships and good cricket.

Thats improvement. Real, tangible improvement.

Ian Whitchurch

Sauron
April 26, 2006, 06:36 PM
Nahh, it's just the usual psychotic fans over-reacting.

Bangladesh are forcing Australia to play quality cricket in order to win.

Go read that again.

At the end of the day. each match has been won by Australia, not lost by Bangladesh - yes, there have been the usual mini-collapses and so on, but there has also been good, tight bowling, decent partnerships and good cricket.

Thats improvement. Real, tangible improvement.

Ian Whitchurch

First of all - why did you already say what I was going to say? I am fuming!! ;)

Second - You put some make up on this pig, but the pig is indeed pretty :)


Bangladesh IS making Aussies work at it. The sad part for me is that only if BD won that first Test, I'd even forgive any subsequent loss against the likes of Kenya (okay, only one loss, no more:D ).

thebest
April 26, 2006, 10:37 PM
spitty I have one piece of advice for you,
read Sham's signature on issues of JO. during matchthread I did that after sometime. As I mentioned earlier JO fans are like JO - they never try to learn in fact like JO they never admit mistake. So it is better to take the advice from Sham's signature

rafiq
April 26, 2006, 10:51 PM
have to agree with ian that BD shows improvement in being able to put any sort of pressure on australia. we are a few implosions away from being consistent, that's not good enough, i know, but it is not as bad as losing to canada (which is pretty much how my yardstick for measurement when it comes to bangladesh cricket)

one improvement i am looking for is bashar and whatmore showing some evidence that they think on their feet. yoU have to be able to adjust to the game situation. it seems that bashar can't do that on the field, and whatmore can't do that in the dressing room.

Rabz
April 26, 2006, 11:52 PM
improvement ?? yeah..thats all right Ian...
but after 6 years in international cricket, i guess we fans wants to see just a bit "more" than improvement....
those days r over when we were satisfied with a respectable loss, its about either win or loose this days...

i know im askin too much fm the BD teams if i want them to win every match, esp against Australia, but what really hurts is still the lack of maturity and responsibility from certain players at a very crucial moment of the game...
eg, bashar's run out in the 2nd innings of the 1st test
bashar's near run out in the last game (2nd odi)
rajin's rash shot in the 1st odi
JO's out in 2nd odi
aftab's out in both innings of 1st test
N.Iqbal's out in the test against SL..
BD poor running btw the wicket in both odi

these r the things that have to come fm within... after all these guys have played around and over 50 odi's and a good no of tests to realise these mistakes... there is only much u can teach....the rest is self-realisation...
problem is , our players arent having that...

Dont mind loosing to team like Australia, its quite natural, but the way we loose it hurting....if we show a more vigilant and perform to our abilities, learning from past mistakes and applyin sense, thats improvement towards the right path...

vv_sunil
April 27, 2006, 12:00 AM
Aftab wasn't dropped... he got sick in the morning and couldn't play.... yeah true I was also surprised to see javed's name in the lineup but ash really needed a lesson and I am hoping both aftab and ash will be back for 3rd odi

I agree with you... but Ashraful need break for some more matches

vv_sunil
April 27, 2006, 12:07 AM
We should not dream of winning or even competing with world no.1 team with such a mediocre team. Bowlers did a splendid job to restrict aussies for 250. When Our 3 top batsmen failed we were reduced to 8/3, virtually the match was over. In absence of Aftab the only player who could have challeneged aussies was Shahriar Nafees. So, at the end of the day I have to admit its not a bad performance by the mediocre Bangladesh team.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

It is a real analysis. After a loss of 3 wickets just for 8 runs, there were two 50 partnership in the innings. Nobody giving credit to that and I feel it is also a sliver lining of the innings. But. they were too defensive, may be they were fearing a collapse under 100 runs.

Spitfire_x86
April 27, 2006, 08:08 AM
It is a real analysis. After a loss of 3 wickets just for 8 runs, there were two 50 partnership in the innings. Nobody giving credit to that and I feel it is also a sliver lining of the innings. But. they were too defensive, may be they were fearing a collapse under 100 runs.
They were never playing for victory, and after all these years most of us believe that it's not the way to do things.

If this match took place 2-3 years ago, then everybody would applaud them.

Dhurr
April 27, 2006, 05:46 PM
Nahh, it's just the usual psychotic fans over-reacting.

Bangladesh are forcing Australia to play quality cricket in order to win.

Go read that again.

At the end of the day. each match has been won by Australia, not lost by Bangladesh - yes, there have been the usual mini-collapses and so on, but there has also been good, tight bowling, decent partnerships and good cricket.

Thats improvement. Real, tangible improvement.

Ian Whitchurch

This man knows what he's talking about.

ammark
April 27, 2006, 05:50 PM
Four weeks ago, we at bc were all apprehensive and hoping that BD would give Aus a run for their money. And I'm VERY proud of our team that they did. :flag:

But unfortunately, emotions have distracted us. Especially because we saw our team miss a few opportunities to win themselves. Other than that, its high time we all reflected and realised that on the whole, we have done a satisfactory job. :)

Dhurr
April 27, 2006, 05:58 PM
ammark, well said.

Hatebreed
April 27, 2006, 07:46 PM
Nahh, it's just the usual psychotic fans over-reacting.

Bangladesh are forcing Australia to play quality cricket in order to win.

Go read that again.

At the end of the day. each match has been won by Australia, not lost by Bangladesh - yes, there have been the usual mini-collapses and so on, but there has also been good, tight bowling, decent partnerships and good cricket.

Thats improvement. Real, tangible improvement.

Ian Whitchurch

Sometimes I wonder if you've been sent from heaven :flag: