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View Full Version : Did Ashraful's omission cause BDs loss of fighting spirit?


shimraj
April 26, 2006, 11:05 AM
Anyone who saw this match has undoubtedly thought that BD never played for a win rather they wanted to play the full 50 overs. I know the big flop of the top order batsmen put tremendous pressure on the team but still I was thinking they will go for big shots right after 30 overs. But they disappointed me.
What do the Ash sympathisers think?
Did BD loose the fighting spirit due to Ash dropping?
Personally I don't think so. My analysis is, so far in this series BD has always batted first (test and ODI). So they had settled themselves with the tune that they would not have to chase. And not chasing a game for a long time has caught them off guard and they just messed up.

Sauron
April 26, 2006, 11:08 AM
If you are an Ashraful worshipper, the answer is YES
If you are a true supporter of BD Cricket, the answer is NO

sadi
April 26, 2006, 11:10 AM
8/3 in 4 over, game is almost over... specially when javed omar is the one who needs to rescue the team... sorry couldn't resist

shimraj
April 26, 2006, 11:21 AM
8/3 in 4 over, game is almost over... specially when javed omar is the one who needs to rescue the team... sorry couldn't resist

I agree. But what did restrict our team to show fighting spirit? After 8/3 in 4 what did they have to loose after they (Bashar and JO) successfully settled themselves in the crease? They didn't have to play test cricket when they were not supposed to. Not to mention they did just the oposite in the test series. :E
As I said in a different thread, on pen and paper this is the best team BD can have. At least I expected a fighting spirit from the team.

shimraj
April 26, 2006, 11:22 AM
If you are an Ashraful worshipper, the answer is YES
If you are a true supporter of BD Cricket, the answer is NO

You should have known by now where I belong ;)

ialbd
April 26, 2006, 11:33 AM
now that BD lost badly all these questions will come up (why did we leave out the only match winner for BD, isnt Ahsraful better than Tushar Imran etc etc) but the fact is Ashraful badly needed a break and even if he is included in the 3rd ODI team he is more likely to score less than 10 runs.

But this loss wasnt because of Ashraful-Aftab's absense but its our top order, that crumbles, putting excessive pressure on the middle order. Expected a lot more from Shahriar Nafees.

And also the all famous Bangladeshi tail enders (who use to score more than the top order) are out of form for longgggggggg time....
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Tigers_eye
April 26, 2006, 11:37 AM
Seems like you didn't watch the first part of the game. How did Australia bat after losing 4 wickets and why? Wasn't Bd trying to do the same? At 30 overs, we had Bashar, Mashud on the crease. With Alok, Rafique, Mash, Razzak to come. Bd did exactly did what they were suppose to do. Unfortunately our players are still not at the Aussie standard. With wickets inhand and a strong tail in the last ten overs team can take chances. We didn't have either.

sadi
April 26, 2006, 11:45 AM
We cant expect our tailenders to win the match for us.... our top-order has to do their job and they failed miserably today... javed and sumon did some damage control but it wasn't good enough... when you are 8/3, nine out of ten times you are out of the game

shimraj
April 26, 2006, 12:50 PM
Seems like you didn't watch the first part of the game. How did Australia bat after losing 4 wickets and why? Wasn't Bd trying to do the same? At 30 overs, we had Bashar, Mashud on the crease. With Alok, Rafique, Mash, Razzak to come. Bd did exactly did what they were suppose to do. Unfortunately our players are still not at the Aussie standard. With wickets inhand and a strong tail in the last ten overs team can take chances. We didn't have either.
I did watch the first part.
You didn't read my posting. I am saying the same thing as you are. What did restrict BD to go for big hit after 30?

shimraj
April 26, 2006, 12:53 PM
We cant expect our tailenders to win the match for us.... our top-order has to do their job and they failed miserably today... javed and sumon did some damage control but it wasn't good enough... when you are 8/3, nine out of ten times you are out of the game

Agree. But the problem is our players don't want to think about that odd one out of ten. We have to have the winning spirit no matter who the opponent is.
Braves die once, cowards die thousand times.

Tigers_eye
April 26, 2006, 12:58 PM
Yes sir, I did read your post. If BD had gone for the shots right after 30 overs the last five wickets would have fallen within 35 overs. At least they tried to apply what they witnessed aussies do. Playing safe till 40 overs is not conceding the match when the top order crumbled within 20 overs. We still had a chance at least to go closer.Few sixes by Rafique or Mash and we would see ponting starting to bite his nails again.

shimraj
April 26, 2006, 12:59 PM
now that BD lost badly all these questions will come up (why did we leave out the only match winner for BD, isnt Ahsraful better than Tushar Imran etc etc) but the fact is Ashraful badly needed a break and even if he is included in the 3rd ODI team he is more likely to score less than 10 runs.

But this loss wasnt because of Ashraful-Aftab's absense but its our top order, that crumbles, putting excessive pressure on the middle order. Expected a lot more from Shahriar Nafees.

And also the all famous Bangladeshi tail enders (who use to score more than the top order) are out of form for longgggggggg time....
I don't know why people are thinking I am blaming the loss on Ash dropping :rolleyes:

shimraj
April 26, 2006, 01:07 PM
Yes sir, I did read your post. If BD had gone for the shots right after 30 overs the last five wickets would have fallen within 35 overs. At least they tried to apply what they witnessed aussies do. Playing safe till 40 overs is not conceding the match when the top order crumbled within 20 overs. We still had a chance at least to go closer.Few sixes by Rafique or Mash and we would see ponting starting to bite his nails again.

But Aussies didn't have a target to chase, we had. I don't think playing like a test in an ODI and piling up RR is a good idea. To me playing like a test and loosing by 70 runs is more disgraceful than playing like ODI and loosing by the same margin. Why are you so sure about last 5 wickets falling within 35 overs if they had gone for big shots? In ODI if you let the bowlers climb on your shoulder, you are dead man.

sadi
April 26, 2006, 01:22 PM
Well I am not sure what was the asking rate after 30 overs but going for big hits only after 30 overs oftentime is suicidal when you already lost your top order.... instead what they should've done is take 5-6 runs every over.... hit the occational fours and keep teh asking rate in control.... obviously team management made a mistake by sending pilot ahead of alok...

al Furqaan
April 26, 2006, 02:52 PM
they did the right thing, given they were 8-3. i doubt the aussies could chase 250 on any wicket if they started 8-3.

shimraj
April 26, 2006, 03:07 PM
they did the right thing, given they were 8-3. i doubt the aussies could chase 250 on any wicket if they started 8-3.

Do not put Aussies and BD on the same temperament level. It's all temperament that matters. Even with such bad start there is a good chance aussies would have pulled it out.

shimraj
April 26, 2006, 04:12 PM
Well I am not sure what was the asking rate after 30 overs but going for big hits only after 30 overs oftentime is suicidal when you already lost your top order.... instead what they should've done is take 5-6 runs every over.... hit the occational fours and keep teh asking rate in control.... obviously team management made a mistake by sending pilot ahead of alok...

Anyway, I beg to differ with all due respect. Have BD followed what you are saying? 5/6 runs per over and occassional boundaries? NO. So what's the point you are trying to make. it was 8/3 in 4th. By the 30th over, only 1 more wicket fell and score was above 100. So for more than 26 overs we let the bowlers dominate our batsmen. If you do not punish the bowlers for so long, you are bound to create pressure on yourself. Note when I said, big hit, I definitely didn't mean 36 or 24 per over. I meant a 4 or a 6 at least in every other over and 4/5 single/double runs every over. I am differing with you on the fact that this punishment should start after 30, not after 40.
I agree with you that the batting order was not correct.
One other thing our players need to improve upon is running between the wickets. A lot of doubles were missed because our players start running with a predetermined mind set of taking single.
Modda kotha, temperament again played a big role in this ODI series as it did in the test series.

Frost
April 26, 2006, 04:49 PM
I don't know if Ash's exclusion caused lack of fighting spirit or not. If the players lost the spirit then we are in bad shape. We should be used to the fact that no one is indispensable. On a given day for whatever reason someone cannot play (could be for illness, could be for injury, could be for out of form,...), that should not cause others to stop fighting. Loss of spirit can come from lack of detemination, mistreatment from team management or team, lack of motivation or psychological problem, too much difference in technical strength with the opponent, etc. May be we can argue that Ash has been mistreated by the team management and everyone else is worried about his position in the team. But I don't think no one in the team that played in 2nd ODI had that problem either. So I don't see any reason for them to be spiritless.

Sovik
April 26, 2006, 05:14 PM
what a die hard fan of ashraful. what makes you think some thing like that. if the team had affected by such incident then we might have wait long to get satisfactory results. cause this wouldn't be proffesional attitude

ammark
April 26, 2006, 05:22 PM
This is actually a slightly more refreshing thread than all the other ones. Maybe because most people agree that BD could do all that was possible in Damage control. Shimraj, you may prefer to see two sixes and then the opponent bowler getting a hattrick, but some of us dont. And the cricketing world that keeps criticising over and over always points out to this attitude of yours. Statistics at the end of the day will show miserable figures for the batsmen, a low total for our team, and all the wickets gone in 35 overs! Our batsmen did quite well given the circumstances, and I think they earned more respect taking the score to 180 and playing out the overs instead of collapsing after an eyewash, like you'd prefer to see!

Regarding the style of play you described from 30th over: Remember, we are playing against aus. They fielded well and kept the boundaries contained. Full credit to them. Bashar tried for boundaries, and he was out caught trying to hit over the top! And whatever singles and doubles they took saved our skin more than the risky doubles that almost had Bashar run out.

shimraj
April 27, 2006, 03:16 AM
what a die hard fan of ashraful. what makes you think some thing like that. if the team had affected by such incident then we might have wait long to get satisfactory results. cause this wouldn't be proffesional attitude

Excuse me, who is a die hard fan of Ashraful?:eek:

aosaif
April 27, 2006, 03:23 AM
After restricting the aussies to 250.....I looked at the batting card.....and alas! No Aftab, coupled with the resting the Ash (much-needed), I couldn't find a match-winner. I have thus learned that in order to win matches, one must sacrifice a few dismal losses.

And really, how much better did we do with these more "watchful" replacements for Aftab and Ashraful? Hope we have our match-winners back for the 3rd ODI.

shimraj
April 27, 2006, 03:33 AM
Shimraj, you may prefer to see two sixes and then the opponent bowler getting a hattrick,
Show me some statistics where a hattrick happened after two sixes.

Statistics at the end of the day will show miserable figures for the batsmen,
It's not any better than miserable right now. is it?

Our batsmen did quite well given the circumstances, and I think they earned more respect taking the score to 180 and playing out the overs instead of collapsing after an eyewash, like you'd prefer to see!
Again give me a statistics where a team played test cricket in an ODI with 8+ RRR, 6 wickets in hand.

And whatever singles and doubles they took saved our skin more than the risky doubles that almost had Bashar run out.
And why did Bashar almost get run out? Poor running between the wicket. Nothing else.

PoorFan
April 27, 2006, 03:43 AM
Loss of early wicket caused BDs loss of fighting spirit I think, and Mashud is simply not the guy who can accelerate the runs rate, when Bashar and Mashud tried they just failed, that's the end of the story.

Like it or not, we can not expect a win in that match situation ( 8/3 in 4 overs ) unless we have someone like Ash or Aftab in middle / down order.