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View Full Version : Match winning stat of Ashraful and Aftab; pls have a look


Miraz
April 26, 2006, 06:18 PM
Bangladesh have won 15 ODI till date. Ashraful played in 12 of those matches and contributed to the win. His career average is only 19.5 while in those 12 matches he averages 35.22.

Aftab was a part of the team in 10 matches and amazingly he averages 72.83 in those matches while his career average is 26.11.

Bangladesh is now considered as a better ODI team and that's because of this two young gun. We cannot afford to rest them if we want to win matches.

Please keep in mind we have won just three matches in ODI without them and those wins were before we got the test status (in fact before they started to play for Bangladesh).


Source from cricinfo>> (http://stats.cricinfo.com/guru?sdb=team;team=BDESH;class=oditeam;filter=basi c;opposition=0;notopposition=0;decade=0;homeaway=0 ;continent=0;country=0;notcountry=0;groundid=0;sea son=0;startdefault=1986-03-31;start=1986-03-31;enddefault=2006-04-26;end=2006-04-26;tourneyid=0;finals=0;daynight=0;toss=0;schedule dovers=0;scheduleddays=0;innings=0;followon=0;resu lt=won;seriesresult=0;captainid=0;recent=;viewtype =list;runslow=;runshigh=;wicketslow=;wicketshigh=; ballslow=;ballshigh=;overslow=;overshigh=;bpo=0;ba tevent=;conclow=;conchigh=;takenlow=;takenhigh=;ba llsbowledlow=;ballsbowledhigh=;oversbowledlow=;ove rsbowledhigh=;bpobowled=0;bowlevent=;submit=1;.cgi fields=viewtype)

Sauron
April 26, 2006, 06:29 PM
I agree with you 99%. :)

We do depend heavily on Aftab and Ash to play well for BD to have a shot at winning matches against major teams.

In 2nd ODI, Aftab was suffering from sinus problems, so he was rested, not dropped.

But Ash was dropped. Since staying on and playing each match only worsened his game, hopefully this little break would only help to bring his form back.

Aftab and Ash both are essential for BD team. But that essential status should not allow anyone to develop such primadonna attitude that they stop valueing his wicket. Because when that happens, that essential player stops being essential.

Btw, this applies to Ash, not Aftab, coz Aftab still appears to put a price on his wicket. Granted, Aftab's wicket is not as pricey as Rajin's, but it surely is not free like Ash's wicket.

al Furqaan
April 26, 2006, 06:39 PM
miraz bhai,

i agree with you 100%.

but as sauron bhai said, ash needs to learn a valuable lesson. he was dropped once before, and his stats improved markedly since that time (england series 2003). however, those improvements are not enough that he or we should be satisfied with. thus, he has been dropped again.

a couple of years ago, i would have been vehemently opposed to such action because if would deprive us of seeing ash potentially explode or him from experience. but it really wouldn't have mattered much. we would lose with him or without.

nowadays, bangladesh will win ODIs fairly frequently. we have proved that, and as we continue to improve our wins will be more commonplace. so by leaving ash out, we do hurt our chances of winning, but lets face it, a win even against Australia is not that valuable anymore. we are used to winning.

so this treatment for ash will benefit him, the fans, his supporters, and most importantly the team/nation.

ashraful is great, but that means that his responsibility is all the greater than MOST of his teammates.

layperson
April 26, 2006, 06:39 PM
Bangladesh have won 15 ODI till date. Ashraful played in 12 of those matches and contributed to the win. His career average is only 19.5 while in those 12 matches he averages 35.22.

Aftab was a part of the team in 10 matches and amazingly he averages 72.83 in those matches while his career average is 26.11.

Bangladesh is now considered as a better ODI team and that's because of this two young gun. We cannot afford to rest them if we want to win matches.

Please keep in mind we have won just three matches in ODI without them and those wins were before we got the test status (in fact before they started to play for Bangladesh).


Source from cricinfo>> (http://stats.cricinfo.com/guru?sdb=team;team=BDESH;class=oditeam;filter=basi c;opposition=0;notopposition=0;decade=0;homeaway=0 ;continent=0;country=0;notcountry=0;groundid=0;sea son=0;startdefault=1986-03-31;start=1986-03-31;enddefault=2006-04-26;end=2006-04-26;tourneyid=0;finals=0;daynight=0;toss=0;schedule dovers=0;scheduleddays=0;innings=0;followon=0;resu lt=won;seriesresult=0;captainid=0;recent=;viewtype =list;runslow=;runshigh=;wicketslow=;wicketshigh=; ballslow=;ballshigh=;overslow=;overshigh=;bpo=0;ba tevent=;conclow=;conchigh=;takenlow=;takenhigh=;ba llsbowledlow=;ballsbowledhigh=;oversbowledlow=;ove rsbowledhigh=;bpobowled=0;bowlevent=;submit=1;.cgi fields=viewtype)

Source from Ajkerkagoj>> (http://www.ajkerkagoj.com/2006/April27/sports.html)

thanks miraz for the stats... i m too lazy to dig these up but i hv been shouting the same thing over nd over again.... great post ..... :up:

layperson
April 26, 2006, 06:44 PM
one more thing tht ppl forget th ashraful had only one bad ODI series against the kenyans..... he performed against sri lanka b4 tht .... nd he failed in the first one day matchagainst aus... if u keep dropping players after one bad series then we need to keep making whoelsale changes to the BD squad every series !!!!!!! ridiculous !!!! how ezly sm members here choose to forget the recent past ..... they just look at ashraful's failure in the last series..... what abt the other batters ? if this is the way u want then the rule shud be fair for all ... drop or "rest" ne batsman who fails in one series ....

Sauron
April 26, 2006, 06:47 PM
thanks miraz for the stats... i m too lazy to dig these up but i hv been shouting the same thing over nd over again.... great post ..... :up:


এখন বুঝছেন পাবলিকে আপনের কথায় কান দেয় না ক্যান? এতোদিন ধইরা শুধু শুধু চিল্লাইছেন, মানে শাঊট করছেন। মিরাজের মতো একটু কষ্ট করে যুক্তি প্রমান নিয়ে কথা বললে পাবলিকে আপনের কথা আগেই শুনতো।

tutul
April 26, 2006, 06:57 PM
Wonderful analysis. Its not that we hate any of our players or selector dont want to pick them for best 11. In fact, we love them all including JO, Chacha, HS and others. We love them when they perform well…and become mad when they don’t. No doubt Ashraful, Aftab, Mash are the best bullets we have on our 11-Gage. All we hope they fire up more often and kill the target like the way they have done before. And we all know they are capable to do so.

layperson
April 26, 2006, 07:17 PM
এখন বুঝছেন পাবলিকে আপনের কথায় কান দেয় না ক্যান? এতোদিন ধইরা শুধু শুধু চিল্লাইছেন, মানে শাঊট করছেন। মিরাজের মতো একটু কষ্ট করে যুক্তি প্রমান নিয়ে কথা বললে পাবলিকে আপনের কথা আগেই শুনতো।


bhaijan i did provide my logic.... i just dint hv the averages like miraz has presented ....neways what matters if ppl understand the thing .... all i want to see is the selectors taking the right decisions for BD cricket so tht BD cricket moves forward not backwards....nd i believe all fans of BD want the same thing ...:flag:

metallian
April 26, 2006, 07:28 PM
agreed....

jabbar
April 26, 2006, 08:45 PM
I don't think dropping Ash and/or Aftab is a reflection on the selection committee's disapproval of these two young players. Rather, it is an indication that they want them to correct deficencies in their techniques and let them reassess themselves away from teh pressures of match play. I am 100% sure of this, and the selectors will not want these two guys out of the team for long. Like someone els ementioned in another thread, every player gets dropped at some time - even players liek ponting have been 'rested', and the rest period in many cases is upwards of a year!

Fortunately for players like Ponting, Clarke, when they get dropped and "reassess" themselves in domestic comps, they have a very strong competition in which to sharpen their games. In BD's case, there is no such strong domestic comp, so BD must persisit with underperforming players because the ODIs and Tests are the only places where they can get the proper learning environment. Of course, once the domestic comp improves in quality (perhaps after the cricket academy and other infrastructures are established), we will see a different selection policy.

Hasib
April 26, 2006, 08:53 PM
If you go through the scorecards you will find that Ash hardly contributed to any of those. Aftab on the other hand has. Though a correction... Aftab didn't play in 5 of our wins not 3. Oh and its not like they dropped Aftab....he was sick.

cricman
April 26, 2006, 09:14 PM
If you go through the scorecards you will find that Ash hardly contributed to any of those. Aftab on the other hand has. Though a correction... Aftab didn't play in 5 of our wins not 3. Oh and its not like they dropped Aftab....he was sick.

Ashraful: Top Scoring 50 vs SriLanka, Match Winning Fireball 50* vs the Real Zimbabwae, Chipped in with 28 vs Ind and of course the 100 vs Australia.

Aftab: To Scored 69 vs Ind, Fireball 32* vs Sri Lanka and 21* vs Australia

So Ash didn't contribute in a big way vs Kenya and the weakened Zimbabwe, I could hardly care. Were supposed to beat them with/without Ashraful in form or not.

BonBon
April 26, 2006, 09:31 PM
Yes, Shirajouddoula is still the best patriot and mir zafar is still the worst betrayer..

Guys..wake up. If someone doesnt score in a string of matches..dont keep him for stats's sake.

Bangladesh have won 15 ODI till date. Ashraful played in 12 of those matches and contributed to the win. His career average is only 19.5 while in those 12 matches he averages 35.22.

Aftab was a part of the team in 10 matches and amazingly he averages 72.83 in those matches while his career average is 26.11.

Bangladesh is now considered as a better ODI team and that's because of this two young gun. We cannot afford to rest them if we want to win matches.

Please keep in mind we have won just three matches in ODI without them and those wins were before we got the test status (in fact before they started to play for Bangladesh).


Source from cricinfo>> (http://stats.cricinfo.com/guru?sdb=team;team=BDESH;class=oditeam;filter=basi c;opposition=0;notopposition=0;decade=0;homeaway=0 ;continent=0;country=0;notcountry=0;groundid=0;sea son=0;startdefault=1986-03-31;start=1986-03-31;enddefault=2006-04-26;end=2006-04-26;tourneyid=0;finals=0;daynight=0;toss=0;schedule dovers=0;scheduleddays=0;innings=0;followon=0;resu lt=won;seriesresult=0;captainid=0;recent=;viewtype =list;runslow=;runshigh=;wicketslow=;wicketshigh=; ballslow=;ballshigh=;overslow=;overshigh=;bpo=0;ba tevent=;conclow=;conchigh=;takenlow=;takenhigh=;ba llsbowledlow=;ballsbowledhigh=;oversbowledlow=;ove rsbowledhigh=;bpobowled=0;bowlevent=;submit=1;.cgi fields=viewtype)

Source from Ajkerkagoj>> (http://www.ajkerkagoj.com/2006/April27/sports.html)

Thunder
April 26, 2006, 10:26 PM
Thinking about Ashraful reminds me a story. It’s about a farmer and his infertile hen which is obviously not gonna give egg unless it goes through a certain period of time. The farmer tries his best to help it and at last he choked it to death.

In this case the farmer is our cricket management and the hen is our Ashraful. He wont play an innings of quality unless he goes through a certain period of time or only if he likes to. Now our management can choke him to death but he is not gonna play a good innings.

Most of ashrafuls best innings came in the second innings, such as his 1st test century, his 1st odi century or his 55 ball 94 also came in the second innings. So, the 2nd odi was a very good platform for him to play a very good innings. This argument further strengthens by the fact that, he only plays a good innings when he is at his back. In the 1st odi he was at his back. He was desperate to play a good innings when he played 23 balls for his 5. So, this was surely a huge opportunity!

Shafin
April 27, 2006, 12:42 AM
Miraj,ashraful has lost his winning touch,your stat says how many matches he won for us,but does not show on how many occations he had the chance to win a game for us and ruined it,i still believe he is our best talented batter,but i agree with his exclusion.

TAQATOO
April 27, 2006, 05:19 AM
What are the other batter done for BD in this 15 (or I should say 12 after status) games ?
Any statistics of that ?

Mohiul
April 27, 2006, 05:28 AM
Nice stuff Miraz bhai and my question is who dare to oppose this? Simply there is nobody.

Miraz
April 27, 2006, 05:38 AM
Miraj,ashraful has lost his winning touch,your stat says how many matches he won for us,but does not show on how many occations he had the chance to win a game for us and ruined it,i still believe he is our best talented batter,but i agree with his exclusion.

How can you say this?? Forget the Kenya series, Kenya is no longer our match. What are the other major win in recent times in ODI?? Definitely win against Australia in Cardiff and the win against Srilanka at Bogra. In both the occasions he was the highest scorer, man of the match in cardiff with 100 and a fine 51 against Srilanka. These are the two wins which counts much more than 10 wins against Kenya or current Zimbabwe.

Miraz
April 27, 2006, 05:58 AM
If you go through the scorecards you will find that Ash hardly contributed to any of those. Aftab on the other hand has. Though a correction... Aftab didn't play in 5 of our wins not 3. Oh and its not like they dropped Aftab....he was sick.

Have gone through the scorecards???? :E

Apart from Kenya series, he missed two scoring opportunities in eight game. 9 against Hong Kong and 11 against Zimbabwe in Chittagong. Did not bat in the 5th ODi against Zim (due to heroics of Aftab and Rafiq). Look at his contribution in other 5 innings

51* - - - 1 W 3rd ODI v Zim in Zim 2003/04 at Harare
28 - - - 1 W 2nd ODI v Ind in BD 2004/05 at Dhaka (d/n)
35 - - - 1 W 4th ODI v Zim in BD 2004/05 at Dhaka (d/n)
100 - - 1 W NW Series 2 v Aus in Eng 2005 at Cardiff
51 - 1 W 2nd ODI v SL in BD 2005/06 at Bogra

Please be cautious before any post

sar2005
April 27, 2006, 06:44 AM
Bangladesh is now considered as a better ODI team and that's because of this two young gun. We cannot afford to rest them if we want to win matches.


Miraz, while looking into all your pre-match post on ashraful's resting, I really don't understand what you are trying to say here. While I'm of course appreciating your work on those nice stats, didn't you supported this decision of resting ash for a match or two?

Regarding, aftab, he was definitely not rested willingly. He was sick.

I'm sure most of BD fans are very much aware how crucial these two guys for our team (though not by the statistics as drawn nicely by you). Most importantly, you will appreciate that a person can not be in team if he fails continiously. I'm just not talking about Kenya serries here. Even in test matches against AUS, you noticed that ash is in a bit out of touch. I have no doubt about the capability of these two guys and I'm sure same goes for our selectors as well. Only thing is questionable here, probably they could go with Ashraful once they knew that Aftab was out. Trust you are also refering to this point.

Miraz
April 27, 2006, 06:55 AM
Miraz, while looking into all your pre-match post on ashraful's resting, I really don't understand what you are trying to say here. While I'm of course appreciating your work on those nice stats, didn't you supported this decision of resting ash for a match or two?

Regarding, aftab, he was definitely not rested willingly. He was sick.

I'm sure most of BD fans are very much aware how crucial these two guys for our team (though not by the statistics as drawn nicely by you). Most importantly, you will appreciate that a person can not be in team if he fails continiously. I'm just not talking about Kenya serries here. Even in test matches against AUS, you noticed that ash is in a bit out of touch. I have no doubt about the capability of these two guys and I'm sure same goes for our selectors as well. Only thing is questionable here, probably they could go with Ashraful once they knew that Aftab was out. Trust you are also refering to this point.

Dear Sar, yes I supported Ash's rest fro the 2nd ODI but when Aftab was rested for the illness Ashraful should be in straightway (Ash got the message he required as he was not in playing XI, bringing him in in last moment could have helped him). We cannot dream of winning or even competing without both Ash & Aftab.

Test & ODI is two different ball game. Ashraful played two consecutive half century in last Sl series one of which was the key for our win. Yet, I supported Ash's exclusion for his own good but I am deadly against keeping both Aftab and Ashraful out of playing XI.

6alltheway
April 27, 2006, 10:08 AM
What are the other batter done for BD in this 15 (or I should say 12 after status) games ?
Any statistics of that ?

exactly, how about we look at the current form instead of dinosour times.

cricket_pagla
April 27, 2006, 11:04 AM
i agree wit Mr. Miraz.. we do heavliy rely on dis 2 guyz.. but.. dis is da way.. many teams work... couple of yrs earlier.. we kno.. if Tendulkar score.. indya wins.. or if Lara score.. den W.I win.. n so on... hope 4 da best 4 our dese 2 guyz.. Aftab N Ashraf00l....

Mr-Cricket
April 27, 2006, 11:06 AM
Miraz, good work on gathering those statistics on Ashraful & Ahmed. While no one here argues that both these players have contributed significantly during Bangladeshi wins (and at other times too), and that both of these players are indeed 'match-winners' (as you have correctly noted), the point some of us are making is that we cannot 'carry' these players during our off periods too.

As some have also correctly stated, other players have also no doubt underperformed during these times too (this is no big secret). But the reason I was all for Ashraful's axing following the Test series was because both me personally, and many others I'm sure, demanded more consistency from our best players. We all want our best players - Ashraful & Ahmed in particular, to do us proud more often. This is why I believe it is a good idea to give Ashraful a break from the squad at this time to contemplate how he will acheive this.

The World-Cup is little over 12 months away, and we all want our youngsters to be firing at this time. I think dropping Ashraful for the two final games vs Australia is a very, very small price to pay in this regard. It will give Ashraful a chance to go back, and hopefuly (I pray), take a good look at his game in both Test cricket (we do not play another Test for 12 months, as I'm sure you are aware, and he clearly needs to work on this aspect of his game) and in ODI's.

Ashraful needs to work on his temperament, consistency and the overall way he approaches each innings. Currently, he is looking very nervous early on in most innings. As Wasim Akram, Harsha Bogle, and many other commentators have correctly noted, Ashraful currently either plays in "1st Gear" (where all he will do is defend) and a "4th gear" (where he will go for unnecessarily risky strokes). I'm sure you would have noticed this.

Would it not be beneficial for our team to allow such a potentially great player to go back, and work on his deficiencies, and come back a much, much better player for it? We want our best players to play to the best of their abilities on a consistent basis (this is not too much to ask - but asking for a fifty/hundred in every innings obviously is).

At the same time, this will allow some of our more "medicore" players (as someone has so humorously stated in another thread), a chance to make a name for themselves in Ashraful's absense. We all know Ashraful will eventually filter back into our team's plans (whether that be today, or in a couple of months is in the selectors hands), but in the meantime, it gives us a chance to test out our teams depth, and ability without one of our best players in the side.

If we fail, it will tell us that we simply cannot live without Ashraful (which I hope does not happen). And if we succeed (as we all should hope for), it will tell everyone that Bangladesh indeed has a very good crop of players and this will put pressure on each of our players to perform on a more consistent basis - or otherwise face the consequences (the selectors axe). Because pressure indeed IS a good thing.

Finally, I have taken the liberty to track down Ashraful's ODI scores during/post the 2004/05 season for those interested. I think his inconsistency speaks for itself (I'm sure his Test statistics will tell an even more gory tail).

ODI's

NZ in BD 2004/05

first. 2
second. 17
third. 13

Ind in BD 2004/05
first. 2
second. 28
third. 32

Zim in BD 2004/05
first. 42
second. 11
third. 13
fourth. 35
fifth. DNB

NatWest Series 2005
first. 0
second. 100
third. 94
fourth. 58
fifth. 0
sixth. 7

Africa/Asia Cup 2005
first. 0
second. DNP

BD in SL 2005/06
first. 4
second. 31
third. 0

SL in BD 2005/06
first. 4
second. 51
third. 64

Kenya in BD 2005/06
first. 18
second. DNB
third. 3
fourth. 11

AUS in BD 2005/06
first. 5
second. DNP
third. -





I don't think dropping Ash and/or Aftab is a reflection on the selection committee's disapproval of these two young players. Rather, it is an indication that they want them to correct deficencies in their techniques and let them reassess themselves away from teh pressures of match play. I am 100% sure of this, and the selectors will not want these two guys out of the team for long. Like someone els ementioned in another thread, every player gets dropped at some time - even players liek ponting have been 'rested', and the rest period in many cases is upwards of a year!

Fortunately for players like Ponting, Clarke, when they get dropped and "reassess" themselves in domestic comps, they have a very strong competition in which to sharpen their games. In BD's case, there is no such strong domestic comp, so BD must persisit with underperforming players because the ODIs and Tests are the only places where they can get the proper learning environment. Of course, once the domestic comp improves in quality (perhaps after the cricket academy and other infrastructures are established), we will see a different selection policy.

Great post mate. :up:

Miraz
April 27, 2006, 11:21 AM
At the same time, this will allow some of our more "medicore" players (as someone has so humorously stated in another thread), a chance to make a name for themselves in Ashraful's absense. We all know Ashraful will eventually filter back into our team's plans (whether that be today, or in a couple of months is in the selectors hands), but in the meantime, it gives us a chance to test out our teams depth, and ability without one of our best players in the side.



Thank you Mr. Cricket for your nice post. I agree with your most points but could not agree with the above quoted paragraph.

We don't want to go backwards and allow mediocre players to make their name in international cricket and again brand Bangladesh as 'no hopers'. We need to play our talented inconsitent players and pick some wins among some defeats. We can expect these talented inconsitent players will become consistent or eventually replaced by talented consistent players.

I can still feel the pain when we have won 3 game out of 99 ODI with a good bunch of mediocre players. I don't want to see similar stats again even in my wildest dreams. Mind it, depth, ability only counts when you win.

Mr-Cricket
April 27, 2006, 11:35 AM
We don't want to go backwards and allow mediocre players to make their name in international cricket and again brand Bangladesh as 'no hopers'. We need to play our talented inconsitent players and pick some wins among some defeats. We can expect these talented inconsitent players will become consistent or eventually replaced by talented consistent players.

I can still feel the pain when we have won 3 game out of 99 ODI with a good bunch of mediocre players. I don't want to see similar stats again even in my wildest dreams. Mind it, depth, ability only counts when you win.
The point I was trying to get across I guess, was that it will give other players, in Ashraful's absense, the chance to mix it with the best in the International stage, and perhaps, just perhaps, make a name for themselves. Experience is priceless. When I quoted the word "mediocre", I was actually making a joke at someone's post from another thread (I think it was you!). Because obviously very few of the players in our current squad are in fact "mediocre" (just because you are not a match-winner does not mean that you are 'crap'!). I don't want crap players playing for us! :D

We need to take this time (if infact Ashraful, and others are given an extended spell) to trial our up-and-coming youngsters (as Australia is doing in this series with Dan Cullen, Mitchell Johnson & Mark Cosgrove) and also give our other talented and recognised players the final chance to shine. While we are on this topic, I suggest trialing Mushfiqur Rahim in the leadup to the Champions Trophy/World Cup. He is clearly a talented player and figures heavily in our future plans, and this could be the logical progession for him into our Test squad, in future.

That said, the last thing we need right now is wholesale changes. We need to take in a cohesive team into the major tournaments that are coming up, but that does not mean we cannot tinker slightly (e.g. batting order) with one or two positions in order to get the best out of our team and our individual players. The last thing we want, as you said, is to go back to times where our record read "won 3 game out of 99 ODI". Finally, the quote you referred to was in fact a point which I split into two parts. The second half immediatly follows the first. Keep in mind the word "mediocre" is not to be taken literally! :lol: