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DJ Sahastra
April 27, 2006, 01:27 PM
You are a frustrated BD Fan/Follower and you want to just bash your heart's content to one of the current BD players (including ones rested/dropped).

Who would that be, and why?

In Indian analogy, i would've liked to bash Kaif but feel sympathetic to his plight - he has served the team well and is only struggling to regain his touch. I'll go ahead and bash Shewag!

Spitfire_x86
April 27, 2006, 01:31 PM
Javed Omar.

Search my posts and all anti-JO threads for answer of "why"

Fazal
April 27, 2006, 01:37 PM
I think we the BD cricket fans just loved to bash ChaCha (khaled mahmood). But now that he have retired, there is a vaccum created and none of the players were able to fill up the gap. There is no more common enemy #1 in the team. Now fans are confused and divided. Therefore now you see so many threads bashing so many players.

At present the currents leaders are: Gullu, Bashar, Ash, Alok and Rana. Lets see at the end of the day, who will be the clear winner.

My guess is, it will be Gullu. But then again after his retirement (which will happen pretty soon) we will be back to square one, without a clearcut leader again.

Tigers_eye
April 27, 2006, 01:41 PM
for the next 10 years we will continue to bash the one and only ash.

Rubu
April 27, 2006, 02:10 PM
I'll keep bashing Alok and Tushar until they either starts to perform or leave the team for ever.

shimraj
April 27, 2006, 02:14 PM
for the next 10 years we will continue to bash the one and only ash.
Amen.:lol:

sadi
April 27, 2006, 02:15 PM
I'll keep bashing Alok and Tushar until they either starts to perform or leave the team for ever.

Rana.....:D

ammark
April 27, 2006, 02:28 PM
for the next 10 years we will continue to bash the one and only ash.

Agreed. Since he gets our hopes up all the time and then makes them crash most of the time, I'd bash him too. Plus there are too many balls to juggle. Some people have already started bashing Pilot, Rajin, Aftab, Tushar, NI, Rajib as well! I'll stick to Ashraful who's "bashed" my faith, hopes, dreams and aspirations in/on/from him lots of times with his most awfully-silly shots and pathetic contributions!

sar2005
April 27, 2006, 02:43 PM
The situation is that almost all players in BD are now bashed somewhere in the forum. Between 'whom to Bash' and 'who should not be bashed', I would rather like to dicuss who should not be bashed. It would be better to see the name of the persons whom we don't want to bash and why.

Probably the option is not much and that's why it can't be asked. In many other threads, I noticed the most popular player in BD is Rafiq. I am sure none want to bash him but who is next should not be bashed?

I would say, Bashar, He should not be bashed.
Probably he has some weakness in this captaincy but he leads from the front by performance. Also he is maintaining the team decipline for a long (which is normaly not common for bd).

So, whom else you don't want to Bash??

Rubu
April 27, 2006, 03:04 PM
Bashar is bashed a lot, and sometimes should be. Remember those days he was called habipull bashar and happy hooker? He sometimes really need to be bashed for too defensive captaining and too agressive batting.

I think beside rafique the other player who should not be bashed is mashrafee.

Bancan
April 27, 2006, 03:21 PM
ashraful man.

Imtiazk
April 27, 2006, 03:31 PM
The situation is that almost all players in BD are now bashed somewhere in the forum. Between 'whom to Bash' and 'who should not be bashed', I would rather like to dicuss who should not be bashed. It would be better to see the name of the persons whom we don't want to bash and why.

Probably the option is not much and that's why it can't be asked. In many other threads, I noticed the most popular player in BD is Rafiq. I am sure none want to bash him but who is next should not be bashed?

I would say, Bashar, He should not be bashed.
Probably he has some weakness in this captaincy but he leads from the front by performance. Also he is maintaining the team decipline for a long (which is normaly not common for bd).

So, whom else you don't want to Bash??

Difficult to put it here.. but I will give a hint:

Steve Waugh was dropped from the one-day side not because he became a bad player as he continued to be the test captain with great success [ with an average of over 50 ]. Sadly, in one day cricket, it is not enough to know how many runs someone scored but how those runs were scored.

In tests, consolidation, means accumulation - nothing else - since ultimately, a "draw" is an available option.

That option is taken away in one day cricket. To use a football analogy - the penalty shoot-out is within the 90 minutes. You can save your side only by winning.

In one day cricket, consolidation means accumulation at a reasonable pace - since ultimately, a "draw" is not an available option. If runs are scored and as a result of those runs the pressure on your side actually increases... there is something to think about !

I remember Pakistan scored 220 for 2, in a World Cup match, with Ramiz scoring a consolidating hundred and Miandad 50. At the break , Miandad justified the run rate saying that on that pitch no-one could score 200. West Indies won and did not lose a wicket with overs to spare. Surely, 240 for 7 would have been better !

It is alright to talk about consolidation: but it must have an ultimate purpose which is to win. Symonds and Clarke also consolidated but kept the scoreboard ticking along. It surprises me that such beautifully well-crafted innings is actually not played in a test match when it should be played !

DJ Sahastra
April 27, 2006, 03:43 PM
Difficult to put it here.. but I will give a hint:

Steve Waugh was dropped from the one-day side not because he became a bad player as he continued to be the test captain [ with an average of over 50 ]. Sadly, in one day cricket, it is not enough to know how many runs someone scored but how
those runs were scored.

In tests, consolidation, means accumulation - nothing else - since ultimately, a "draw" is an option available.

That option is taken away in one day cricket. To use a football analogy - the penalty shoot-out is within the 90 minutes. You can save your side only by winning.

In one day cricket, consolidation means accumulation at a reasonable pace - since ultimately, a "draw" is not an available option. If a lot of runs are scored and as a result the pressure on your side actually increases... there is something to think about !

I remember Pakistan scored 220 for 2, in a World Cup match, with Ramiz scoring a consolidating hundred and Miandad 50. At the break , Miandad justified the run rate saying that on that pitch no-one could score 200. West Indies won and did not lose a wicket with overs to spare. Surely, 240/7 would have been better !

It is alright to talk about consolidation: but it must have an ultimate purpose which is to win. Symonds and Clarke also consolidated but kept the scoreboard ticking along. It surprises me that such beautifully well-crafted innings is actually not played in a test match when it should be played !

Well Said.

Beamer
April 27, 2006, 03:47 PM
Imtiazk - beautifully put. I am not sure most of the people will understand you. Our cricket fanbase is also in infancy very much like the cricket team itself. It will take time for both to grow. I have seen some fantastic ideas from some forum members over the years about what our line up should be in one dayers. I have seen people who want to play Rajin at no.5 or Rana in no.6 etc..We have to approach the game correctly first,putting aside wins and losses for a while. You give yourself virtually zero chance by putting players in spots where they won't certainly win a game.

Rubu
April 27, 2006, 04:02 PM
I agree with imtiazk, but fail to see the conclusion driven by beamer from it. u know, sometimes its not about growing up, but throughing out the old shagy towel and get a new one. 30 years old ideas is not how ODI is played today.

I fail to see what is wrong with playing someone who can score runs with good strick rate and at the same time can stop collaspe. unless of course, you wanna watch cricket for 10 minutes. 10 minutes of heroic batting and then back to pavilion. its win that should be the untimate goal not eye pleasure of spectators. and this is the real notion that need to be changed.

DJ Sahastra
April 27, 2006, 04:10 PM
"I think we the BD cricket fans just loved to bash ChaCha (khaled mahmood). "

I like Chacha. He was my favourite. Especially since he was the Chacha.

How wonder how anyone can be so cruel as to bash Chacha? :)

Chacha-bashers, be ready for some GonoDhulai. :E

Beamer
April 27, 2006, 04:15 PM
The very idea of a no.6 stopping a collapse is defeatist ! If you have Rana in mind for that position, its even more ridiculous( he is an insult to that no.6 spot ) and something even a 50 yr old fan would find strange.

Tigers_eye
April 27, 2006, 04:27 PM
I agree with Rubu 100%.

Imtiazk,
Nice post; however, I can't agree with your last sentence.
"It surprises me that such beautifully well-crafted innings is actually not played in a test match when it should be played !"
The well-crafted innings only came to live when Symond started hoisting over the ropes after 35 overs. The window of opportunity was getting small (15 overs left) and they started to take chances. On the other hand, test cricket is 5 days long. A batsman can almost face unlimited overs, so taking chances one too many only works for the bowling team. Examples: Gillespie's innings. If one of our batsman even faced half the balls he faced and not score any runs. the 2nd test would have been a draw. My point is no matter what, test cricket is different than ODIs and one can not expect these two forms of game play in the same pace.

For the 10 min highlight cricket here comes 20-20.<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

Beamer
April 27, 2006, 04:30 PM
I agree with imtiazk, but fail to see the conclusion driven by beamer from it. u know, sometimes its not about growing up, but throughing out the old shagy towel and get a new one. 30 years old ideas is not how ODI is played today.

I fail to see what is wrong with playing someone who can score runs with good strick rate and at the same time can stop collaspe. unless of course, you wanna watch cricket for 10 minutes. 10 minutes of heroic batting and then back to pavilion. its win that should be the untimate goal not eye pleasure of spectators. and this is the real notion that need to be changed.

How is the ODI being played then these days? I give you a hint : Look at some no.5/6 these days ..Flintoff/Petersen, Symonds, Kemp, Dilshan, Afridi/Razzak/ Inzy, Yuvraj..pretty consistent in what thsoe individuals are capable off. Its true we don't have anyone of that calibre but we have players that can do it better than your posterchild Rana. That is not some 30yr olds ideas. That is the way the game is played. Playing Rana at no.6 can please only two category of people : 60 somethings who watched 74 World Cup ( 60 overs ) or Kindergaretn kids who happpen to like Rana for their own childlike reasons. Pick one..

layperson
April 27, 2006, 04:49 PM
I'll keep bashing Alok and Tushar until they either starts to perform or leave the team for ever.
my sentiments exactly:up:

ammark
April 27, 2006, 05:01 PM
I'm so glad this thread has transpired to this. I cant help but put my thumbs up to all that has been posted here. I agree with what Beamer said

Our cricket fanbase is also in infancy very much like the cricket team itself. It will take time for both to grow...We have to approach the game correctly first,putting aside wins and losses for a while. You give yourself virtually zero chance by putting players in spots where they won't certainly win a game.

In light of that, its heart-wrenching to read from many posters an attitude of impatience. We're quick to criticise and call for heads, sometimes lauding brash strokeplay for the sake of entertainment. Thats all well and good, but leads us nowhere if we want to improve the quality of our cricket, mentally and on the field. We have to help our players develop the temperament and consistency to play consolidating innings, and then expect them to play masterfully well in difficult circumstances. Our current players have the potential for this no doubt, but more often than not they fail us with their inability to "think straight, and play straight", and instead throw their wickets away.

Imtiazk
April 27, 2006, 05:22 PM
I agree with Rubu 100%.

Imtiazk,
Nice post; however, I can't agree with your last sentence.
"It surprises me that such beautifully well-crafted innings is actually not played in a test match when it should be played !"
The well-crafted innings only came to live when Symond started hoisting over the ropes after 35 overs. The window of opportunity was getting small (15 overs left) and they started to take chances. On the other hand, test cricket is 5 days long. A batsman can almost face unlimited overs, so taking chances one too many only works for the bowling team. Examples: Gillespie's innings. If one of our batsman even faced half the balls he faced and not score any runs. the 2nd test would have been a draw. My point is no matter what, test cricket is different than ODIs and one can not expect these two forms of game play in the same pace.

For the 10 min highlight cricket here comes 20-20.<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

Cat's eye, thanks for your comments. I did not have in mind Symonds when using the expression "well crafted innings ". My comments almost always refer to Bangladeshi batsman [en] as that is what interests us most here, understandably. So, I will not reply to the rest of your post as I agree with your comments.

If just to go back to our innings, a score of 161/4 at 40 overs would have been significantly different from 141/4. Not by taking any further risks in shots but by running better. I do not dispute the end result probably would have been the same but would have given Alok, Rafique etc. a fairer chance.I know fans [?] would barrack them when they were given an impossible hand to play with. The sad thing is that [ in the partnership ] they played extremely well in so far as shot selection was concerned, particularly from 69/4 and even more precariously 8/3. However, the seeds of the inevitable defeat were also sowed at the same time. Batting is just not about playing shots ! Think how many of Gilchrists's runs came from in his 32. It is a common misconception that all he does is hit boundaries ! He is an intelligent batsman who uses all available opportunities to keep the scoreboard ticking.

ammark
April 27, 2006, 05:32 PM
If just to go back to our innings, a score of 161/4 at 40 overs would have been significantly different from 141/4. Not by taking any further risks in shots but by running better.
I think it was for that run out chance that Bashar faced. Lucky him got benefit of the doubt, and stayed on. But I can imagine that shattering their nerves for a while. Plus Bashar isnt the most "responsible" runner between the wickets either, as demonstrated in our test match. These definitely add to it. As for Pilot, you gotta hand it to the guy: he tries to do exactly what you suggested more often than not.

Furthermore, the commentators always keep pointing to our deficiencies in running between the wickets. Sunny G was very critical of how the two of them were watching the fielder instead of the other batsman after completing one run. Understandably, our batsmen had a very defensive attitude out there when coming back on top from 8/3.

Dhurr
April 27, 2006, 05:36 PM
No point in bashing any one. They're all trying their best. They're the reason us fans have hopes.

When so-and-so isn't performing well, and you say so, it isn't bashing. It's bashing when you're letting your emotions get in the way of your judgment and want a certain player out of the team just because you don't like him, not because he hasn't performed or done what he's expected to do.

Sauron
April 27, 2006, 05:47 PM
Anyone's a fair target, except for Rafique.

Imtiazk
April 27, 2006, 05:52 PM
Anyone's a fair target, except for Rafique..

I would agree but would insert the word "objectively". Having said that, I would not know what to say about Rafique. He is in an exalted position and rightly so.

PoorFan
April 27, 2006, 09:26 PM
for the next 10 years we will continue to bash the one and only ash.
Haha ... if he stays that longer in the team.;)

thebest
April 27, 2006, 09:45 PM
Haha ... if he stays that longer in the team.;)

good point. The way Sakib, Mehrab performing there is a big IF.

PoorFan
April 27, 2006, 09:47 PM
All the young so called talented bunch but oldies.:)

ammark
April 27, 2006, 11:46 PM
Ashraful failed yet again. HA HA HA! [Sad!]

cricket_pagla
April 28, 2006, 02:06 AM
xcept Rafiq.. every-1.... :D

Miraz
April 28, 2006, 02:15 AM
If bashing results in some good comeback, I am ready to Bash everyone except Rafiq.

reyme
April 28, 2006, 02:46 AM
The very idea of a no.6 stopping a collapse is defeatist ! If you have Rana in mind for that position, its even more ridiculous( he is an insult to that no.6 spot ) and something even a 50 yr old fan would find strange.

Have someone else in mind other than Aftab? Whom do you want? Alok Kapali? The guy cant even cross 13 in an ODI and you want him no matter what? Put Rana in and he will deliver and history/stat says it all. I persoanally think Rana can easily come at 7/8 and wil do just fine.

Putting some talent label guy who does not deliver, never wins any matches (or MoM in that regard) is real strange. No matter what you say, when it comes down to just Rana and Alok, Rana is a better option, that is not ridiculous thats a fact. If Alok's style or look is something you prefer for your pleasure, thats a different story.

PoorFan
April 28, 2006, 03:02 AM
The very idea of a no.6 stopping a collapse is defeatist ! If you have Rana in mind for that position, its even more ridiculous( he is an insult to that no.6 spot ) and something even a 50 yr old fan would find strange.
<!--StartFragment -->Logically right but wrong in fact when Kapali is the man we dream.

Sovik
April 28, 2006, 06:37 AM
ashraful.... he is an idiot. has some shots but only 1 thing this guy doesn't have is the cricket sense.

nannu
April 28, 2006, 06:49 AM
I think we the BD cricket fans just loved to bash ChaCha (khaled mahmood). But now that he have retired, there is a vaccum created and none of the players were able to fill up the gap. There is no more common enemy #1 in the team. Now fans are confused and divided. Therefore now you see so many threads bashing so many players.

At present the currents leaders are: Gullu, Bashar, Ash, Alok and Rana. Lets see at the end of the day, who will be the clear winner.

My guess is, it will be Gullu. But then again after his retirement (which will happen pretty soon) we will be back to square one, without a clearcut leader again.

really one of the best post i have read

zahid
April 28, 2006, 07:19 AM
Fazal bhaiyer postgulu portey moja lagey :)

Whom to bash - Ashraful
Why? - U all know!!! Duh!

Fazal
April 28, 2006, 09:07 AM
<!--StartFragment -->Logically right but wrong in fact when Kapali is the man we dream.

Ya you are right... but who cares about facts specially if they don't back up with your dream. Facts are for people who don't know anything about cricket and cannot appriciate or identifies the talent.....

Therefore trust what the experts says in this board... say the following three times
"Rana is an embarassment at #6"
"Ash, Aftab and Alok are the man....they would take us to the dream land becuase they have talent, others dont? Why I? Beacuse I said so"
"Get rid of gullu, he is no good any more"

And then go to bed.... trust me every thing will be fine... you will see a good dream... but after that when you wake up.... well lets think about that later.

rudro
April 28, 2006, 09:19 AM
If Alok's style or look is something you prefer for your pleasure, thats a different story.
I was thinking the same! What do you see in Alok? How did he perform after the recall? The truth is he hasn't performed for a long time - neither in domestic nor in IC. You guys still support him.

So when reyme makes that comment, it doesn't surprise me at all.

rudro
April 28, 2006, 09:20 AM
Fazal,

Just curious, where have you been for so long?

Tigers_eye
April 28, 2006, 09:20 AM
Therefore trust what the experts says in this board... say the following three times
"Rana is an embarassment at #6"
"Ash, Aftab and Alok are the man....they would take us to the dream land becuase they have talent, others dont? Why I? Beacuse I said so"
"Get rid of gullu, he is no good any more"

And then go to bed.... trust me every thing will be fine... you will see a good dream... but after that when you wake up.... well lets think about that later.
Allow me to finish what happens after you wake up.

124 all out. The man (3 wise men) scored a total of 19 against an attack best described as debudant.

One World
April 28, 2006, 02:41 PM
It was very pleasant to read this thread. But after all these analysis for poisition number and job definition there is one/two or three person(s) who actually been ruling matches when BD played a stronger opponent. The umpires! If the Hariharan's hang around, if a batsmen is given out when after losing 4 wickets he becomes steadied for a long partnership to save the test match when world's number one captain dares to defy a decision to make the change and gets it, the huge mind game is played. When you come up with determination to do something for your nation and get out in both innings by controversial Leg Before's before even playing twenty balls the question remains. If Shahriar's are given out like they were given in the third ball of a game that can easily break the backbone of the inspiration in your heart. You cannot capitalize over a greater opponent when they play with 12 to 15 players. There will be hundred years gone BD will never be able to win a test match against a formidable opponent. I wonder what is left for ICC after givng LBW the most prominent batsman of BD at the third ball of an ODI with a loud thick clear INSIDE EDGE. This is the inside edges of cricket.

Shakalaka
April 28, 2006, 04:12 PM
Everyone besides Bashar.

And ASH will top the list any given day.

DotBall
April 28, 2006, 06:51 PM
It was very pleasant to read this thread. But after all these analysis for poisition number and job definition there is one/two or three person(s) who actually been ruling matches when BD played a stronger opponent. The umpires! If the Hariharan's hang around, if a batsmen is given out when after losing 4 wickets he becomes steadied for a long partnership to save the test match when world's number one captain dares to defy a decision to make the change and gets it, the huge mind game is played. When you come up with determination to do something for your nation and get out in both innings by controversial Leg Before's before even playing twenty balls the question remains. If Shahriar's are given out like they were given in the third ball of a game that can easily break the backbone of the inspiration in your heart. You cannot capitalize over a greater opponent when they play with 12 to 15 players. There will be hundred years gone BD will never be able to win a test match against a formidable opponent. I wonder what is left for ICC after givng LBW the most prominent batsman of BD at the third ball of an ODI with a loud thick clear INSIDE EDGE. This is the inside edges of cricket.

Now, there is a good excuse.
SN got a bad decision and 10 other guys are demoralized and gave up. If that's the metality then we just need play 1 guy for every game and by that account Ash will be playing most of the games for BD.
Since you are so eager to put it all on the umpire, how about the LBW of Gilchrist on the 2nd ODI? The ball pitched mostly outside the wicket to wicket zone and he was still given out.
The fact is there will be bad decision and stronger teams will get the benefit of the doubt more than weaker teams. That's not going to change whether it is AUS on top or BD on top.

Hasib
April 28, 2006, 11:26 PM
Javed Omar.

Search my posts and all anti-JO threads for answer of "why"
Non of them make sense but :floor:

Anyway back on topic... I think I would have Ash out for not 1 but several ODIs

DJ Sahastra
April 29, 2006, 11:20 AM
I want to bash Dav Whatmore.

E Shalar Baba - Ekta Lathi Maara Dorkar. :lol: