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View Full Version : Why do people rate Asraful again?


islam
April 27, 2006, 08:47 PM
Bd lost without him, yes!

But would we not have had a loss without him? According to his average of 19.50 and his tendency to be one of the #1 contributors to collaspes the chances of him being the fourth in 4/8 were much greater than him making a score of >20.

Asraful has done well in tests so far this year, has an average of around 60 this year. He should become a test match player, and concentrate on that facet of the game. He needs to go back to domestic cricket or even try get into the county team in england (seconds/firsts) where he plays in a club side-and hope to make some runs there.

People think Asraful is a 'rare talent', but what is the differnece between him and the early Afridi?
Nothing. There is a reason why he has missed so much cricket for pakistan. Eaither Asraful improves his ODI game, he should not be allowed into the ODI squad.

Any one else can get/better his gaurented score of 0.:D

Mr-Cricket
April 27, 2006, 09:47 PM
Asraful has done well in tests so far this year, has an average of around 60 this year. He should become a test match player, and concentrate on that facet of the game. He needs to go back to domestic cricket or even try get into the county team in england (seconds/firsts) where he plays in a club side-and hope to make some runs there.

People think Asraful is a 'rare talent', but what is the differnece between him and the early Afridi?
Nothing. There is a reason why he has missed so much cricket for pakistan. Eaither Asraful improves his ODI game, he should not be allowed into the ODI squad.

Your points may have been valid in the first 2 years of Ashraful's Test career (2001/02 to 2003/04), but it is not now. Please check your facts before making such bold & sweeping statements.

While I'm certainly not arguing against your point that Ashraful needs to seriously work on his game over the next couple of months, the fact remains, Ashraful has failed to reach double figures in 13 out of last 28 Innings Test Innings. The fact is, Ashraful's Test Career average has been 'suger-coated' by a small number of Test centuries, that have been produced at the most random times. The fact is, his statistics will speak louder than my arguments here (by quoting Career averages, without bothering to look into them in more depth, you have shot yourself in the foot), so here in fact is a more definitive list:

Test Matches

NZ in BD 2004/05
first. 67, 26
second. 0, 0

Ind in BD 2004/05
first.60*, 0
second. 158*, 3

Zim in BD 2004/05
first. 19, 22
second. 5, 3

BD in Eng 2005
first. 6, 2
second. 3, 12

BD in SL 2005/06
first. 17, 0
second. 42, 26

SL in BD 2005/06
first. 136, 1
second. 24, 13

AUS in BD 2005/06

first. 29, 4
second. 6, 29


Suffice to say, I think his 'record' speaks for itself. The brutal truth appears to be that Ashraful, in Test cricket anyway, has actually become less consistent with age, so this cannot be used as an excuse. Between 2001/02 and 2003/04, Ashraful had scores of 114, 75, 77, 98, 81 (1 x 100, 4 x 50). Between 2004 and 2005/06, Ashraful has scored 67, 60*, 158* (all in 2004/05 vs NZ/Ind), and 138 (some 14 innings after his remarkable 158* vs Ind). In fact, between 2003 & 2004/05, he accumulated those scores of 77, 98, 81, 67, 60*, 158* (in 19 Innings). However, in the 21 innings following his 158*, he has just scored one hundred (138 vs SL last year). Enough said.

Dhurr
April 27, 2006, 09:58 PM
End of discussion. End of thread.

Good job, Mr-Cricket.

islam
April 27, 2006, 11:21 PM
unfortunatly you are incorrect mr. cricket.

<TABLE borderColor=silver cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="90%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TD class=TableHeadingLeft>Year </TD><TD class=TableHeadingRight>M </TD><TD class=TableHeadingRight>Inns </TD><TD class=TableHeadingRight>NO </TD><TD class=TableHeadingRight>50s </TD><TD class=TableHeadingRight>100s </TD><TD class=TableHeadingRight>HS </TD><TD class=TableHeadingRight>Runs </TD><TD class=TableHeadingRight>Avg </TD><TD class=TableHeadingRight>Ca </TD><TD class=TableHeadingRight>St </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fff8dc><TD align=left>2001 (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat.asp?PlayerId=2964&Year=2001) </TD><TD align=right>5 </TD><TD align=right>10 </TD><TD align=right>1 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>1 </TD><TD align=right>114 </TD><TD align=right>211 </TD><TD align=right>23.44 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffdab9><TD align=left>2002 (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat.asp?PlayerId=2964&Year=2002) </TD><TD align=right>4 </TD><TD align=right>8 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>1 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>75 </TD><TD align=right>174 </TD><TD align=right>21.75 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fff8dc><TD align=left>2003 (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat.asp?PlayerId=2964&Year=2003) </TD><TD align=right>6 </TD><TD align=right>12 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>1 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>77 </TD><TD align=right>207 </TD><TD align=right>17.25 </TD><TD align=right>3 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffdab9><TD align=left>2004 (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat.asp?PlayerId=2964&Year=2004) </TD><TD align=right>8 </TD><TD align=right>15 </TD><TD align=right>2 </TD><TD align=right>4 </TD><TD align=right>1 </TD><TD align=right>*158 </TD><TD align=right>520 </TD><TD align=right>40.00 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fff8dc><TD align=left>2005 (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat.asp?PlayerId=2964&Year=2005) </TD><TD align=right>6 </TD><TD align=right>12 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>42 </TD><TD align=right>157 </TD><TD align=right>13.08 </TD><TD align=right>5 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffdab9><TD align=left>2006 (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat.asp?PlayerId=2964&Year=2006) </TD><TD align=right>4 </TD><TD align=right>8 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>1 </TD><TD align=right>136 </TD><TD align=right>242 </TD><TD align=right>30.25 </TD><TD align=right>2 </TD><TD align=right>0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Asrafuls test performances, year wise.
IN 2004 he had an avg of 40 and 2006 he has an avg of 30 (before australia came it was a fair bit larger)

where as in 01-03 he failed to crack 25.

His test performaces 04,05,06 are very solid (05 not as good) but these figures are good enough for bd team selection.

His ODI stats.
<TABLE borderColor=silver cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="90%" border=1><TBODY><TR bgColor=#fff8dc><TD align=left>2001 (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat_ODI.asp?PlayerId=2964&Year=2001) </TD><TD align=right>4 </TD><TD align=right>4 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>16 </TD><TD align=right>46 </TD><TD align=right>11.50 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffdab9><TD align=left>2002 (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat_ODI.asp?PlayerId=2964&Year=2002) </TD><TD align=right>7 </TD><TD align=right>7 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>44 </TD><TD align=right>125 </TD><TD align=right>17.86 </TD><TD align=right>1 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fff8dc><TD align=left>2003 (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat_ODI.asp?PlayerId=2964&Year=2003) </TD><TD align=right>13 </TD><TD align=right>13 </TD><TD align=right>1 </TD><TD align=right>2 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>56 </TD><TD align=right>155 </TD><TD align=right>12.92 </TD><TD align=right>3 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffdab9><TD align=left>2004 (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat_ODI.asp?PlayerId=2964&Year=2004) </TD><TD align=right>19 </TD><TD align=right>19 </TD><TD align=right>1 </TD><TD align=right>2 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>66 </TD><TD align=right>332 </TD><TD align=right>18.44 </TD><TD align=right>1 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fff8dc><TD align=left>2005 (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat_ODI.asp?PlayerId=2964&Year=2005) </TD><TD align=right>16 </TD><TD align=right>14 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>2 </TD><TD align=right>1 </TD><TD align=right>100 </TD><TD align=right>395 </TD><TD align=right>28.21 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffdab9><TD align=left>2006 (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBat_ODI.asp?PlayerId=2964&Year=2006) </TD><TD align=right>8 </TD><TD align=right>7 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>2 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD><TD align=right>64 </TD><TD align=right>156 </TD><TD align=right>22.29 </TD><TD align=right>3 </TD><TD align=right>0 </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fff8dc><TD class=BoldFace align=left>Overall (6) </TD><TD class=BoldFace align=right>67 </TD><TD class=BoldFace align=right>64 </TD><TD class=BoldFace align=right>2 </TD><TD class=BoldFace align=right>8 </TD><TD class=BoldFace align=right>1 </TD><TD class=BoldFace align=right>100 </TD><TD class=BoldFace align=right>1209 </TD><TD class=BoldFace align=right>19.50 </TD><TD class=BoldFace align=right>8 </TD><TD class=BoldFace align=right>0 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

He is improving but 06, 05 considering the oposition we have played (kenya, zim) these stats are not good enough to be playing for bd.

Focus on 06' 7 knocks 3 50's and onlt 156 runs total. So 4/7 of his knocoks ammounted to around 10 runs total....

YOU BE THE JUDGE.


Source: howstats.com (best stats website on the net)

islam
April 27, 2006, 11:43 PM
his 13 today reduces his year and career ODI average. Why was he in the team? No one knows..At least Hopes got a wicket...he never takes wickets.

Mr-Cricket
April 27, 2006, 11:49 PM
The brutal truth appears to be that Ashraful, in Test cricket anyway, has actually become less consistent with age, so this cannot be used as an excuse. Between 2001/02 and 2003/04, Ashraful had scores of 114, 75, 77, 98, 81 (1 x 100, 4 x 50). Between 2004 and 2005/06, Ashraful has scored 67, 60*, 158* (all in 2004/05 vs NZ/Ind), and 138 (some 14 innings after his remarkable 158* vs Ind). In fact, between 2003 & 2004/05, he accumulated those scores of 77, 98, 81, 67, 60*, 158* (in 19 Innings). However, in the 21 innings following his 158*, he has just scored one hundred (138 vs SL last year). Enough said.

I really do not think I need to back up my previous post. The statistics there clearly speak for themselves. What you do not seem to understand is that taking yearly averages will not do justice to a players actual form/performance. On the contrary. Without delving deeper, you will never get the true story (this is why alot of people say statistics, alone, do not give a clear indication of a players true worth - they are far too one-dimensional). The FACT is, in the last 2-3 years, "Ashraful has failed to reach double figures in 13 out of last 28 Innings Test Innings." Read this again.

The FACT is, in the last 2 years, Ashraful's yearly averages have been boosted, in 2004, by his 60* & 158* (Obviously two great Innings), and even more recently, his 138 vs SL late last year. Did you even bother to read my post in full, or did you intentionally choose to bypass the individual scores, and instead of coming to the rational conclusion that Ashraful has indeed been wildly inconsistent over the last 2 years in TEST cricket, choose to debate a FACT that no recognised Cricket observer dares to dispute? And notice that I intentionally made no argument over his ODI statistics on this thread - I was meerly debating your initial statement:

Asraful has done well in tests so far this year, has an average of around 60 this year. He should become a test match player, and concentrate on that facet of the game.

For more information on my views on Ashraful's ODI Career, visit the following link:
http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=16223

islam
April 27, 2006, 11:57 PM
Look @ One Brain C. Lara no one doubts he is not a great player. But he for the last 1/4 of his Test career makes 1 big score every 3-4 tests (he scores are MUCH biger than Asrafuls). In test cricket Big scores once in a while are good enough, where is in ODI cricket you need to be more consistent. Averages don't mean everything, but they do give an overview of the player. You may say 60* and 158* but on the occasions he becomes N.O it is because he runs out of partners, that is not his fault. EVERY other bd player has the similar opertunity, some like aftab, bashar (on occasions), mashud bat below him and have a greater chance of being N.O, but these players do not take these chances.

There is nothing wrong with his test game in terms of the quality that Bd have. He is not a test macth winner (no one in bd is), but every 2-3 test you are gaurented a decent score from him, thats more than good enough.

IN ODI's every 10 ODI games he has a chance to turn it on, 9 losses-1 possiable win is not good enough.

Mr-Cricket
April 28, 2006, 12:17 AM
Look @ One Brain C. Lara no one doubts he is not a great player. But he for the last 1/4 of his Test career makes 1 big score every 3-4 tests (he scores are MUCH biger than Asrafuls).
What on earth is your point? "One Brain C. Lara " has in fact made 11294 Test runs at a phenomenal average of 53.02 (here we have a case where one dimensional statistics DO tell the full story). How can you class Ashraful as a "great" player, or even dare to compare him to one of the games true "greats".

In test cricket Big scores once in a while are good enough, where is in ODI cricket you need to be more consistent.
The is trully the single most ludicras statement I've come across on this forum. You've just taken the cake there mate.

You may say 60* and 158* but on the occasions he becomes N.O it is because he runs out of partners, that is not his fault.
I recall calling those two innings "remarkable" acheivements. That 158* was in fact a trully GREAT innings (even Sachin Tendulker concurs), and it is safe to say that it will be remembered even in 10-20 years time.

but every 2-3 test you are gaurented a decent score from him, thats more than good enough.
Again, I don't think your paying any attention to anything I'm saying. The scores clearly suggest that this is infact NOT occuring. What do you class as a 'decent' score? Because a 20-30 is not 'decent' in my book - in fact, JO is irreperably chastised for this phenomenon alone.

Look, you really are making a complete arse of yourself here. I suggest you quit while your ahead (joke). Clearly you have not even bothered to read through either of my two posts in any detail. Nor are you considering a single point that I have made - and that is trully unforgiveable. This thread really should have died the moment Dhurr posted. Good-bye.

islam
April 28, 2006, 12:26 AM
ALl you are saying is asraful should not play Test cricket because he averages 30 (which is only b/c he obtains many Not outs). This is incorrect. Find me some one who can take his place in the bd team with better figures?

I was not compairing lara's career to asraful (lol). But look at the new study of cricinfo, Lara in the last 4 years is the 4th most inconsistent batter in cricket (over 2k runs), this doesn't mean hes a bad player, he does what he does. Asraful is in a similar mold.

He scores nothing every 4-6 innings then scores a 50 and on the odd ocasion he scores a 100. (look at the sri lankan serise)

I'm saying this is good enough TO play in bangladesh. Bangladesh is not Austarlia. Australia would not accept this, neither would india, pakistan, SA. But for BD this is more than enough.

You say JO is chatised for this (consistancy), he should not be....hes a great player for bd.

One mistake that many make. A score of 20 is a decent score for bd, if you avearge 20 in a test year or 25-30 you have done well. Basher our best player of all time (bd's bradman) has a career avg of 35. If you expect asraful to average 35 in his test career (you are in dream land). Asraful has an average of 30 this season, this is more than good enough to remain in the squad.

The selectors agree with me, whats you'r problem?

My argument is Asraful should stay in the tests team and not in the ODI team. You seam to think Asraful should be in the ODI team and not in the test. That is absurd, and you know it.

Mr-Cricket
April 28, 2006, 12:44 AM
ALl you are saying is asraful should not play Test cricket because he averages 30 (which is only b/c he obtains many Not outs). This is incorrect. Find me some one who can take his place in the bd team with better figures?

My argument is Asraful should stay in the tests team and not in the ODI team. You seam to think Asraful should be in the ODI team and not in the test. That is absurd, and you know it.

Your a pest, a real pest. I did not once say that Ashraful should not play Test Cricket, and if you had bothered to read ANY of my posts at all, you would have realised this. I also gave you the option of reading my post on another thread, clearly explaining my motivation behind my support of Ashraful's recent (and very short lived) axing in ODI's. Don't take words and put them in my mouth - especially when you are so careless as to blatently ignore any rational argument made(for gods sake, I even took the liberty to underline my most important points for your convenience). Here is THAT thread, one last time, again, for YOUR convenience (there are two posts).

http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=16223


One mistake that many make. A score of 20 is a decent score for bd, if you avearge 20 in a test year or 25-30 you have done well. Basher our best player of all time (bd's bradman) has a career avg of 35. If you expect asraful to average 35 in his test career (you are in dream land). Asraful has an average of 30 this season, this is more than good enough to remain in the squad.
10 years ago, maybe. But if you still hold this belief, then you really are living in the past. If our players cannot achieve a '35' Test Average by now, then they really need to take a good long hard look at themselves. (Both Bashar and Ashraful have in fact made it clear themselves - in the press - that they are each targeting career averages of 40).

The selectors agree with me, whats you'r problem?
I find that statement highly derogatory, and extremely insulting considering you have not even bothered to consider any points raised. On the other hand, I have clearly both considered, and treated all of your points with respect throughout this debate. I will say this once only, stop wasting my time.

ammark
April 28, 2006, 01:07 AM
My two cents worth: Even though we are "Bangladesh" and our batsmen's avg's show that they're all at par with each other, we're still a test playing country now. We are Expected to be competitive. We've been given room to improve, and we have room to improve. But criticism will always come towards us until we improve all facets of our game and reach a level at par with most other Test playing countries.

Regarding Ashraful, its high time we drop the subject. He is not playing his game with composure and good consistency as would be expected of ANY of our batsmen. He has essentially been overrated for his masterful strokeplay and once-in-a-blue-moon great innings. What good is that, especially when his body language, game style and attitude has not improved at all in all these innings. Instead, because of his exploits we continuallly have put more pressure on him to do his heroics instead of letting him take some time out, playing lower levels and getting some good innings and having him improve his self-confidence as well as improve on his gamestyle, temperament and responsibility. Instead he's trying all his (if any) self-improvement at the topmost level with uncertainty and unsurity.

reyme
April 28, 2006, 01:30 AM
He has essentially been overrated for his masterful strokeplay and once-in-a-blue-moon great innings. What good is that, especially when his body language, game style and attitude has not improved at all in all these innings. Instead he's trying all his (if any) self-improvement at the topmost level with uncertainty and unsurity.

Very well said. Sham will never see that and continue to argue on this topic thinking that people who think otherwise are idiots!

ammark
April 28, 2006, 01:47 AM
Very well said. Sham will never see that and continue to argue on this topic thinking that people who think otherwise are idiots!

I havent really read Shameran's arguments on Ashraful... I know theres one from around here somewhere, but my perspective is from seeing Ashraful's attitude on and off the field. I remember right during the NatWest series Harmison or Flintoff or someone saying that Ashraful will go nowhere with how he plays his game. And its very true, he hasnt tried to improve his composure and temperament in his games much since, except in these past 2 innings where doing so was inappropriate! In every innings, Ashraful has had lucky chances since the 100 vs Aus!

Sovik
April 28, 2006, 06:42 AM
he played 67 matches and scored 1 century and 8 fifties. this is very ordinary. our problem is that we make hero out of some one if he scores 50. he is a good pinch hitter not a reliable batsman

sunny747
April 28, 2006, 06:47 AM
Ashraful is nothing but a pinch hitter........

Miraz
April 28, 2006, 06:48 AM
he is a good pinch hitter not a reliable batsman

I understand your frustration friend but this is the funniest statement about Ashraful I have evr heard :lol:

Sovik
April 28, 2006, 06:59 AM
I understand your frustration friend but this is the funniest statement about Ashraful I have evr heard :lol:

glad you had some fun. but this is true. he never looked confident. and played another bad shot to get out