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pilot fan
July 30, 2006, 11:07 AM
i am pleased to be writting todays post mortum on a much happeiar note that yesterday, after watching all todays game i felt that compared to yesterdays the key thing that we had today was urgency and commitment in the field.

Negatives

* JO- needs to go as not scored runs for a long time, why is ragin not playing
* nefees- not going to moan about him but i would like to see him trying to rotate the stike a bit more
* Aftab- Please work on shot selection you have all the talent in the world
* Ash - nice to se him fight but needs to put away bad balls
* BAsher- did not seem himself today stugels against of stump bowling
* basher captaincy- needs to be more agreesive to new batsman



Positives

* Aftab - showed what he can do when he gets going, he has all the shots in the book and todays dismissal hopefull encourges him to make better shot selection
* Raza's batting- he looked very very good, composed and the best thing was that he looked for the singles and rotated the stike which is what we have lacked in the past peole compare him to chacha but his batting is in a diffrent class to him
* Pilot- has come in for a lot of critisim but today he was fantastic his innings was well paced and he held us together when we could of crumbeled and he also keeped very well
* Rafique batted and bowled well, was very responsable with the bat did not slog to early, bowled a much better line and his atitude with the ball was much more agressive
* Rajib - he has come on so much since his first match against england and he is proving that he will be a big star
* mash - he line is brillinat and he frustrated there oponers wich ment that there middle order had to go for there shots, did well with the bat
* Rassak- good line very hard to score of contributed at the end ith the bat
* basher- feild placing was much better today
* Raza's bowling- i think he can be quicker than he is and needs to develop a slower ball but looked promising.

Imtiaz
July 30, 2006, 11:25 AM
What does Reza bowl ?

Imtiaz
July 30, 2006, 11:27 AM
Today's match had an uncanny relationship to yesterday's. Only the Chigumbura / Matsikinyeri partnership was not allowed to spoil the party from BD point of view.

The 5th bowler fiasco contributed to our pathetic display yesterday. Aftab was taken off too early ! The Ashraful bowling experiment was a disaster.

Today, after the usual batting debacle, we made our expected recovery. Young Reza deserves a lot of credit. Rafique , both for a restrained innings from his point of view [ please note: Ashraful and Aftab ] as well as tight bowling. Mashud for magnificently shepharding the batting to the end of 50 overs and setting up the victory.

Clearly, Shahadat has become the main strike bowler. He leaks runs but, importantly, takes wickets. However, I would like to see Rasel play. If the wicket is pace friendly, then Razzak can make way for Rasel. Reza, at least for the time being is here to stay.

Fazal
July 30, 2006, 11:40 AM
[onlys based on score card and reading from tigercricket and cricinfo]

Batting:

The good: Forhad Reza, Rafique
The In-between: Pilot, Aftab, Mashrafee. Pilot could be moved to "the good", but I expect better from him as a senior player of ODI. Staying in the wicket is great, but maintaining a good SR is a must. If Forhat in his first ODI can do it, why its so hard for Pilot? Mashrafe played well in his limited role.

Aftab would move to "The Good" if he could cutail his rush shots and stayed 7-10 more overs or 20-30 more runs.

Not graded: Razzak and Shahadat. Shahadat didn't bat. Razzak played too little to grade, plus he was n.o.

The suckers: The rest of them

Fielding/wicketkeeping:

The good: Pilot, Aftab, Reza, Bashar
The suckers: Gullu and Rafique (just guessing as they are usually bad fielders)
The In-between: the rest (hard to tell without watching the game)


Bowling
The good: Shahadat, Rafique and Razzak
The In-between: Mushrafee and Forhad
The suckers: none this time and thanks that there was no need for Aftab, Ashraful to bowl. And special thanks that we didn't have to go through the pain of watching Alok bowl again.

The team selector:
Falls under the In-between. There is some progress. But still they are acting like a chicken, too afraid to make bold decicions

The Captain:
Falls under the In-between. Better than last ODI.

ZunaidH
July 30, 2006, 11:51 AM
Looking at the two matches, Bangladesh should defintely drop one of the two or both for the 3rd ODI: Javed Omar and Ashraful.

Interestingly, Sakib and Mushfiq, I feel have better goods to offer and should be tried.

Fazal
July 30, 2006, 11:57 AM
Welcome back ZunaidH. Long time no see.

ZunaidH
July 30, 2006, 12:11 PM
Welcome back ZunaidH. Long time no see.

Thanks Fazal. I was just below the radar. I did visit BC regularly though. Just did not post much.

tutul
July 30, 2006, 12:20 PM
[quote=pilot fan]Negatives
* Ash - nice to se him fight but needs to put away bad balls

where did you see him fight! :confused: :confused: :confused:

outside the field? as Fazal bhai said somewhere he only plays eid game for BD and i dont think a player like that is good for any team. this kid will never learn. when will people realize a enough is enough and let him go?

Miraz
July 30, 2006, 12:23 PM
Cricinfo is saying Ashraful was out in a gem of delivery & he tried to occupy the crease.

In my opinion we should do only one change for the 3rd ODI.

Replace Golla with Rajin/Sakib.

Ashraful should open with Nafees. He is not getting runs as a number 4 batsman.

Rubu
July 30, 2006, 12:38 PM
Like it or not, the main difference between the games was having a seamer in reza who was also the top scorer. hopefully, this will be the farewell for alok. now, take off jo and send in rajin. if the pitch goes on like this helping seamers, bring in rassel instead of rajjak, and we are all set to go.

Fazal
July 30, 2006, 12:40 PM
Cricinfo is saying Ashraful was out in a gem of delivery & he tried to occupy the crease.


Looks like a good case for Ash's favor. Poor fellow was a victime of real good ball. But wait a minute. Lest re-read cicinfo's quote again:

"Every Bangladeshi was aerial, and three - Javed Omar, Shahriar Nafees, and Aftab Ahmed - perished to shots that just weren't on. Ashraful tried his best to emulate his team-mates with a top-edge and a slog that landed safely between three fielders, but had to depart in a more unconventional way - to a gem of a delivery from Blessing Mahwire." - cricinfo

Looks likes he was playing like his usual care free style without any concern for the team. Only that he was just lucky enough not loose his wicket for his reckless style... but only that luck deserted him in the wrong ball.

What a pity... poor fellow ... we should all cry for him for his mis-fortune...

Now let us now start inventing new exculses for this pathetic fellow for his future failures... It must be some one else's fault.... it cannot be him who is at fault.

Spitfire_x86
July 30, 2006, 12:41 PM
Ashraful should open with Nafees. He is not getting runs as a number 4 batsman.
I second you. He can't do worse than what he is doing now in any batting position.

Playing Sakib will give us another spin option and we then we can play Rasel in place of Razzak

Hatebreed
July 30, 2006, 01:57 PM
Good god we didn't lose! I almost gave up hope after we lost the 5th wicket but thanks to Farhad and Pilot for taking us into safety. I had a feeling Farhad would do well (at least better than Kapali), even though I was tentative of his debut performance under such pressure. Now that he's proven what he can do I hope he will continue to improve his performance and strengthen his place in the team. What can I say about Shahadat! Please keep up the good work!

We are still not done, the team has many flaws and it's time we take out the trash. Rajin has to replace JO.. If Bashar wasn't captain he'd also go for his poor batting and weak captaincy. Ashar fool is still a failure, but I'll give him one more chance.. Hopefully the Dav will make the right decisions this time.

shamster
July 30, 2006, 02:03 PM
Javed has got to go - Rajin should come in. Its a real shame Rasel aint playing cant see him replacing any one at present ?

LateCut
July 30, 2006, 02:39 PM
I just have this to say.

Send back Ash to the Liverpools
He does not have the big league tools
God knows why is chosen by the fools
May I say he is not the rough in the jewels?
Leggies he balls and the batsman drools
Him with the bat and my hope cools

Ahmed_B
July 30, 2006, 03:03 PM
the main difference between the games was having a seamer in reza who was also the top scorer.
Good point! Farhad made big contribution in today match with both bat and ball.

But I would also mention some other vital factors. First it was superb bowling from Mashree, Shahadat... second woulb be Rafiq getting more life from the pitch... and the third surely is the much improved BD concentration in fielding and creating pressure.

To be honest... BD took Zim's too lightly in the first game and expected it to be a cakewalk. BD players were not at all giving their full efforts in first match and were expecting that ZIM's will collapse automatically. Today the tigers were much more commited.

Imtiaz
July 30, 2006, 03:45 PM
Ashraful has played 70 matches and after all that has an average of 19.24. To put it simply, if he goes in to bat the next time he has a 50/50 chance of scoring 19. All other top batsmen [ JO, SN, AA, HB, even RS ] have averages higher than Ash. Mashud batting at No.7 averages over 22.

Ash does play brilliantly sometime but he lacks the vital cricketing antenna. You might say he is psychologically scarred. That is why he gravitates between hitting every ball to defending every ball.

Did you know he has scored zero 10 times [ i.e. 1 in 7 innings he scores 0.] ? Sadly, I am begining to get similar vibes about Aftab as well. What was he trying to prove today ?

sadi
July 30, 2006, 04:37 PM
good performance... ash and golla was disappointing... good for nothing golla must go...

SS
July 30, 2006, 04:49 PM
Ashraful has played 70 matches and after all that has an average of 19.24. To put it simply, if he goes in to bat the next time he has a 50/50 chance of scoring 19. All other top batsmen [ JO, SN, AA, HB, even RS ] have averages higher than Ash. Mashud batting at No.7 averages over 22.[quote]
That shows superstars of BD team only performs in ages.


Did you know he has scored zero 10 times [ i.e. 1 in 7 innings he scores 0.] ? Sadly, I am begining to get similar vibes about Aftab as well. What was he trying to prove today ?
I hope not Aftab turns out like him. But they have probs choosing shots.

Albanycrew
July 30, 2006, 05:04 PM
We should replace Javed, Ash and Razzaq with Rajin, Sakib and Rasel respectively. Replacing Razzaq could be a decision made after looking at the pitch.

CricFanBD
July 30, 2006, 06:31 PM
I know Ashraful is passing now very hard time, most of the cricket fan wants to kick him out of the team. But please see the video of his Innings against Aus and Eng in the Natwest series, and then you also agree that he is the most talented player in BD still. He only needs 1 big score; it may come on the coming match, who knows? Please be patient and leave Ash to play some more matches.

Just a Note: When Attapattu was called in the Sri Lankan Test Squad, he scored 3 Ducks in the first 3 innings successively. But the selectors keep faith on him and now he is the captain of Sri Lanka.

AsifTheManRahman
July 30, 2006, 06:43 PM
But please see the video of his Innings against Aus and Eng in the Natwest series, and then you also agree that he is the most talented player in BD still.


That is probably exactly the problem with him and the fans - both like living in the past a tad too much.


Just a Note: When Attapattu was called in the Sri Lankan Test Squad, he scored 3 Ducks in the first 3 innings successively. But the selectors keep faith on him and now he is the captain of Sri Lanka.

that was just three innings, whereas ash scores every ten innings. i think the selectors have actually put their faith on him a lot of times - he's just failed to make use of his chances.

nevertheless, i do agree that he's a gem and capable of doing wonders for the team. if i were the selector, i would drop him (for his own good as much as the team's) in the next game and probably play sakib, who must be fancying his chances after he came back with that quick fifty against the A team, and now that ash has shown us that he refuses to use his head.

another replacement that i would make for the next game is rajin, in place of JO. i do understand the importance of JO in the team, but I don't think there is anything that he can do that rajin can't.

This is a series that we must win to crawl up the rankings, and there's no time to fool around by including people who have a low probability of scoring.

Fazal
July 30, 2006, 06:45 PM
Just a Note: When Attapattu was called in the Sri Lankan Test Squad, he scored 3 Ducks in the first 3 innings successively. But the selectors keep faith on him and now he is the captain of Sri Lanka.

Its one thing to give chances to a debutant but talented player in his early career... but its completerly different to continue giving chances after chances to a talented but under achieving player who is inconsistent through out his whole career.

Now if Farhad Reza, Shahadat, Razzak, Rahim or Sakib fails in their early try, I can under stand the comparison ans ask for patience. But comapring Attapattu's early strugle with Ash's current struggle? Sorry I don't see the connection.

AsifTheManRahman
July 30, 2006, 06:48 PM
Now if Farhad Reza, Shahadat, Razzak, Rahim or Sakib fails in their early try, I can under stand the comparison ans ask for patience.

exactly my point. ash was given the same when he started playing, but couldn't live up to the expectations.

dropping him isn't equivalent to shutting the door to the national team on him. it's all about the team, and if you can't produce results you ought to be out, but you can always come back if/once you've proved that you're worthy of that cap.

sadi
July 30, 2006, 07:04 PM
please don't compare him with attapattu.... this guy has some problem in the head which is not fixable... he kinda reminds me of A-Rod...

SMHasan
July 30, 2006, 07:09 PM
Everyone is concerned about Ash which is not surprising. I dont know why he is not getting runs against this side. After playing in the UK he must has learned lots of things no matter which league he played at. But unfortunately we are not etting his service.

Rajin must come instead of Golla (really his name goes with his performence in the ODIs :)) and Forhad Reza should be given chance more frequently. Looks like he is much matured than we thought. 50 in a debue match is a very good one from bd perspective.

Our overall batting should have been much better. It is unacceptable not to score below 280 against this weakened side. Where no bowler is threatening at all. But our top order lacking in motivation and temperment i think. They need to wake up and get their averages up a bit. They need to learn how to build up an innings.

Aftab did start nicely but why he went to play that wide one? He tried to bring that one from outside the off stump which was ridiculous. He needs to be more careful. Top order provided another disappointment where the tail saved us again. But the question is how long it will go on? Only God knows but we hope we will see much better cricket in the third match.

CricFanBD
July 30, 2006, 07:41 PM
Yeah, may be my comparison is not so accurate. But it will be really painful to me if Ash does not get chance to play against Zimbabwe any more. Zimbabwe is now more or less a weak team in the Cricket World. So it is a great opportunity for Ash to make couple of good scores and bury the bad form. If I were the Selectors, I should give him this opportunity for considering the future just not only for him, for BD also. I want to repeat: Still he is the best talented player that we have.

SMHasan
July 30, 2006, 07:45 PM
Yeah, may be my comparison is not so accurate. But it will be really painful to me if Ash does not get chance to play against Zimbabwe any more. Zimbabwe is now more or less a weak team in the Cricket World. So it is a great opportunity for Ash to make couple of good scores and bury the bad form. If I were the Selectors, I should give him this opportunity for considering the future just only not for him, for BD also. I want to repeat: Still he is the best talented player that we have.

Truly Ash is a raw material, naturally borne talented player. But he needs to make runs.

Fazal
July 30, 2006, 07:56 PM
Zimbabwe is now more or less a weak team in the Cricket World. So it is a great opportunity for Ash to make couple of good scores and bury the bad form. If I were the Selectors, I should give him this opportunity for considering the future just not only for him, for BD also. I want to repeat: Still he is the best talented player that we have.
If I understand correctly... are you saying the team should play for Ash (and his future) rather than Ash playing for the team?

Sorry mate, I really don't care who is playing for Bangladesh, whether its Rahim, Karim, Ashraful or Ashfaqul... when they play I expect them to perform consitently... not once in a while.... as long as a player is contributing in the team I have no problem... but when a player become a life-long member of dead-woods in the team... I don't care for him/ There are some exceptions. And they are.....

a) A talented player strugling in his earlier stage of his career to be set in national team (example Forhad, Shahadat, Aftab in borderline, Rahim, etc), or
b) A good consistent player who contributed a lot to the team and just having a lean time temporarily. (e.g. players like Pilot, Bashar, Rafique, etc)

And at current stage, Ashraful falls none of those category.

For me, talented but consistently inconsistent players have no place in the national team, may be in team-a or development team, but not national team. They should correct they problem elsewhere and then come back to the team.

Beacause National team is not a baby-sitter daycare center for any under-achiving player, even his name is Ashraful.

CricFanBD
July 30, 2006, 08:39 PM
If I understand correctly... are you saying the team should play for Ash (and his future) rather than Ash playing for the team?

Beacause National team is not a baby-sitter daycare center for any under-achiving player, even his name is Ashraful.
No I don't mean that.

I am saying: To play more against Zim will help Ash to build up his confidence as well as it will help BD Cricket in Future....thats all.

I am not willing to make any other posts about this matter. Thanks.

LateCut
July 30, 2006, 09:43 PM
Simple truth is on the average Asraful does not perform. Consequent;y, he has no business taking a valuable slot from a more deserving cricketer. He is uniquely suited to play club cricket. Let him do that. We do not want to spend anymore of our emotional energy on him. Had he be playing for NBA or NFL and performing like this, he would have been 'released' a longtime ego. My apeal to the selectors. In the name of God, please let him go.

LateCut
July 30, 2006, 10:19 PM
By the way, the developmental team that will toor Pakistan has been anounced. There is a missed opportunity. The selector could have named Ash on that team.

thebest
July 30, 2006, 10:22 PM
People are talking of droping Rajjak and bring Sakib. Why not drop Ash and bring Sakib? If he do worse than Ash on batting it means a shortage of 10-15 runs (which I have doubt). I think he is much intelligent batsman than Ash. I was never a fan of Ash but after his performance in 2004-5, I was converting to an Ash fan. But he is the biggest disappointment of bangladesh cricket. To me he upstages Rokon in underachieving in terms of talent. Sakib is a far better bowler. So we have more option in fact 6 frontline bowlers.

bapzmania
July 31, 2006, 12:05 AM
being a huge fan of Ashraful im really dissapointed......i think he shud drop....but Ashraful ke team drop korle Bangladesher khela dekhte ektu kharap lage......but no doubt about Javed ....pls kick out javed and give a chance to mushfiq...

PoorFan
July 31, 2006, 01:54 AM
The problem with players like Ash, Aftab, Nafis, Nafees and old days Rokon, Alok seems in their simple / selfish / foolish strategy or approach in a game. It is like either they get out very 'cheap and early' or 'after a quick 40'! Very rare we see a well paced innings, a good partnership from them, for whatever reason ... say lack of technique, concentration, bad shot selection etc. Once they fail in a game, they try to make up in the next game, by playing a quick 40 innings before getting out, and try to secure their place in the team for coming games. They don't even care 'early loss of wicket' or 'building a partnership' in a crucial situation of the team, especially when their position in the team is in question. I am not sure but I strongly feel like that after following their play for a long time.

For example in this Africa series ...

Ex1.
Ash played very bad in practice match, and in the next match he played a cameo innings of 20+ ( 1st ODI ), but failed in 2nd ODI trying to play sensible. So I am pretty much sure he will play another quick 40 innings in 3rd ODI, if he get another chance to play.

Ex2.
Aftab played a quick 60 in practice, 0 in 1st ODI and then a quick 40 in 2nd ODI. Now his place in team is secured and he may play a sensible innings in 3rd ODI or another dashing innings since there is nothing to lose for him at this moment.

Ex3.
Nafees scored very low in practice, but played a quick ( though slowed down later ) and very useful innings in 1st ODI. He will play another dashing innings in 3rd ODI before putting his name in the team in pressure.

Sometime Javed, Bashar even Rajin play like this and we often wonder why they are in such hurry ( even playing in test sometime ). Once in a blue moon they can get away with it, no question about that ( like Ash perhaps ), but their average score suggest that it's not helping them at all. Our ex U-19 seems more sensible and playing for the team, and that's the reason we see hard hitter Sakib playing slow innings, when slow hitter Mehrab or Mushfique playing with 100% strike rate, depends on team situation.

My concern is our top order players are not able to play 'well paced innings' and 'building a good partnership' after every wicket fall ( like Mashud did yesterday ), which is the main fault of our batting. Because of our inconsistent top order, they more tend to play quick innings to secure place in the team for coming game, regardless of team situation. As a result we almost NEVER EVER see them performing altogether, very few 50+ innings in a game ( for a long time ), hence very few 250+ scores as a team in ODI too, no matter who is the opponent. This is pretty alarming in my opinion. How can one dream of a 60 if he cant score a 50 often, even in local league or a practice match? Mind you 'quick 40 innings' from a batsman never should be called as a 'set batsman', not in BD perspective at least. They fail even if they try to be set after quick fire, because simply they are not enough used to 'building an innings', 'building a partnership'.

Hope our ex U-19 team rescue us from this bad tradition.

Rabz
July 31, 2006, 04:03 AM
i remember reading once, the great Late Eddy Barlow, former coach of Bangladesh beautifully said,
"the probleme with BD players are they are watching too many cricket matches of india and pakistan on tele. they r tryin to hit the ball like tendulkar and inzy. and thats not a good thing to do"
i think that sums it all quite perfectly. they all wanna be the showman, playin all the strokes they got under their belt, and they do hv them all. but the problem is neither tendulkar nor inzy was created in one day. it takes time, patience, perseverance, and lots and lots of hard work to be the top in your game.
aftab's innings last match was utterly dissapointing. when would he realise that after scoring a quick fire 40, he was well set and had a great chance to make his maiden ton, or atleast play sensible and carefull innings to make a big score.
no, what he does, he goes for another shot and gets out, putting the whole team into trouble.when u r asked to bat at no3, u should be proud of urself and take it an extra responsibility upon urself knowing only the best batsman in the team bats at that position. a little cameo is what expect of rafiq or mashree, not frm aftab or ashraful. they the backbone of the battin order.
after playing like a gizillion matches between themselves, these boys r no way a new comer to the game. its only upto them to realise that they r not boys anymore, its time to grow up and act like a man.
the earlier they do it, the better it is for the team and for themselves as well.

and about last night's performance..id say way below par, only got away cuz the opponent was Zimbabwe. full credit to the zims about the way they r playing thier game with such an inexperienced side.

thebest
July 31, 2006, 05:19 AM
It was supposed to be a post mortem of 2nd one day for the entire team. But become a post mortem of Ash's career. So I m going back to the topic. I have not seen Bangladesh bowling. So bowlers performance is on scorecard.
SN 1 (Scored too many runs in 1st one day; so started to think his place is secured for the tour)
JO ** ( As mentioned in post mortem of 1st one day, I will not grade him; He is above everything
Aftab 5 ( A good example of how to throw a start)
Ash 0 (Is this guy a gambler?)
HB 2 ( Poor batting but good captaincy at last; I want to excuse him as this may be the first ODI innings in this year when he is out in single digit)
Farhad 8 (I was for Alok because I thought tht he was perfect no 6. But this guy proved tht he is better than Alok in no 6. Also bowled reasonbly well)
Pilot 7 ( Another performance without any fuss. But if he was little bit attacking in the last 3 overs we might cross 250)
Rafiq 8 ( A superlative performance with ball and matured innings with bat)
Razzak 5 ( He did what he supposed to do with ball yesterday, but for a spinner 6 wides are unexcuseable)
Mash 7 ( Again good performance with ball but disappointed with his batting)
Rajib 7 (A little bit expensive; He was the most expensive bowler yesterday for BD but compensated by the wickets; Still problem with line and length)
Selectors 0 ( Why they are persisting with JO? Why Russsel is not there?)

rafiq
July 31, 2006, 06:27 AM
this is the BD team that probably goes to the World Cup. The full squad should all get 1-2 games, meaning the players who haven't played yet (Rassel, Saquib, Rajin and Mushfiq) will all get games at some point. They should rotate players to 1) get wins and 2) give everyone a go. No matter how many words and "emotional energy" you want to spend on Ashraful, he will continue to play for Bangladesh not only in the 3rd ODI, not only in the next world cup, but for many many years. JO I am not so sure but even with him I think he will go to the WC. But all these words advocating what should/would/could happen with Ashraful are not going to change the reality that he is an integral part of the BD team at the moment, no matter what his form is.

israr
July 31, 2006, 06:54 AM
Hey guys, on paper, Zimbabwe might be very weak, but in reality, I can tell you they can scare off the Indians(or any other test nation) on any good day. So we should not neglect our victory against Zim in the 2nd odi, believe me, they can be a threat against any team in an ODI, after observing them of late. Bvute's statements were right, their players are immensely talented, but are still novices.
Whereas about our Ash, Iam just waiting for one more commendable knock from him, and then look at how opinions of human mind change in no time!!!!!!!

mzia
July 31, 2006, 08:45 AM
Top 5 batsmen’s total run is 66 and Aftab made 40, i.e. other 4 top made 16 runs in the 2<SUP>nd</SUP> ODI.

This is not new for Bangladesh. Several times lower order batsmen and sometimes, young newcomer did some job like this time Reza did. Bangladesh should fix an alternative opening pair for considering poor performance of Javed.
<O:p</O:p
Zimbabwean 3<SUP>rd</SUP> highest score was 21, from extra; out of which wide were 12; Rajjak alone made 6 and Sahadat made 4. This time it did not create much hiccup but it could be a vital in any low scoring close match. Bangladesh won but not that much comprehensively. As our 1<SUP>st</SUP> match performance was so poor this look like better but still not at per. Wish a good easy win in 3<SUP>rd</SUP> match.

sadi
July 31, 2006, 08:57 AM
Very good post Sydney and Poorfan. I was really disappointed with Aftab also. He has so much talent in the world and can do so well only if he learns how to build an innings. Team should come first and I was really surprised by how Zimbabwe batted in the first ODI... they have less experience than us but the way they chased down our total was really professional and we can definately learn something from that...

Ahmed_B
July 31, 2006, 10:35 AM
The problem with players like Ash, Aftab, Nafis, Nafees and old days Rokon, Alok seems in their simple / selfish / foolish strategy or approach in a game. It is like either they get out very 'cheap and early' or 'after a quick 40'! Very rare we see a well paced innings, a good partnership from them, for whatever reason ... say lack of technique, concentration, bad shot selection etc. Once they fail in a game, they try to make up in the next game, by playing a quick 40 innings before getting out, and try to secure their place in the team for coming games. They don't even care 'early loss of wicket' or 'building a partnership' in a crucial situation of the team, especially when their position in the team is in question. I am not sure but I strongly feel like that after following their play for a long time.
True.

Our young 'Talents' get carried away so easily and enjoy becoming a 'quick-hero' rather than becoming a foundation-stone for the team. But the reasons may not be as hursh as u r saying. These players have the tendency to 'play-to-the-crowd' to cheer them up mostly because they are quite young and also... we give them 'celibrity status' too early even if they play 2/3 good innings in 10 games. We name them our 'next-superstar' and what not.

One player who is distinctly exceptional in this lot is Rajin Saleh. I do like this guy's approaches very much.

PoorFan
July 31, 2006, 10:52 AM
True.

Our young 'Talents' get carried away so easily and enjoy becoming a 'quick-hero' rather than becoming a foundation-stone for the team. But the reasons may not be as hursh as u r saying. These players have the tendency to 'play-to-the-crowd' to cheer them up mostly because they are quite young and also... we give them 'celibrity status' too early even if they play 2/3 good innings in 10 games. We name them our 'next-superstar' and what not.

One player who is distinctly exceptional in this lot is Rajin Saleh. I do like this guy's approaches very much.
Yes, I also agree with you, 'celibrity status' and 'next-superstar' also a big factor.

Tigers_eye
July 31, 2006, 11:40 AM
Grades: F. Failed.
Golla: 0 (Why? Why do the selectors and coach torture us? What did rajin do in the off season to lose his ODI place? Wasn't he the starter?)
SN: -2 (what about the strick rate?)
Aftab: 5
Ash: -10 (Next year BCB or CB should not offer a contract extention. Remember bashar's article on how he changed when he didn't got called for the national team? There are thousands of example of getting the cut and coming back strong. MJ for one. Money Talk, that would sort all problems Ash is having. He will definitely bring some wins for the A and development squad.)
bashar: 0 (What captaincy and fielding placement? he was out of the game with an injury. Masud only used 5 bowlers no experiments.)
Reza: as a debutdant 9
K mashud: 9 (If he had gotten out trying to take unnecessary risk we would have folded within 30 overs with 180 runs on board and lose the match)
Rafique: 9
Mash 8
Razzak: 8
Shahadat: the look did it for me. 9

As always the tail gets higher marks than the top order.

al Furqaan
July 31, 2006, 01:42 PM
Shahadat: the look did it for me.

i have to save that video just for the look...shahadat is gonna be GREAAAAT man.

shovon13
July 31, 2006, 03:29 PM
ash is a rare talent and you have to agree with me on that. he isn't consistent, and he needs to fix that to be in our team. the likes of ash and aftab, once consistent, are the ones that will turn our team around from a giant killer to a giant. which is why its important for the team to groom these kids right. thats why some fans react in such a way when others call for ash's exclusion from the team. dropping ash isn't a bad idea to knock some sense into him, but we need him to get as much playing time against zimbabwe and kenya. we should be able to beat these teams regardless of what ash scores. but nothing would be better than to have an in form ash for the coming world cup.

akabir77
July 31, 2006, 03:39 PM
ash is a rare talent and you have to agree with me on that. he isn't consistent, and he needs to fix that to be in our team. the likes of ash and aftab, once consistent, are the ones that will turn our team around from a giant killer to a giant. which is why its important for the team to groom these kids right. thats why some fans react in such a way when others call for ash's exclusion from the team. dropping ash isn't a bad idea to knock some sense into him, but we need him to get as much playing time against zimbabwe and kenya. we should be able to beat these teams regardless of what ash scores. but nothing would be better than to have an in form ash for the coming world cup.
Agree

An onsong Aftab and ash can be deadly for any team any time...:flag:

CricFanBD
July 31, 2006, 05:44 PM
ash is a rare talent and you have to agree with me on that. he isn't consistent, and he needs to fix that to be in our team. the likes of ash and aftab, once consistent, are the ones that will turn our team around from a giant killer to a giant. which is why its important for the team to groom these kids right. thats why some fans react in such a way when others call for ash's exclusion from the team. dropping ash isn't a bad idea to knock some sense into him, but we need him to get as much playing time against zimbabwe and kenya. we should be able to beat these teams regardless of what ash scores. but nothing would be better than to have an in form ash for the coming world cup.
This comment touches my feelings exactly. I just wanted to say this into this thread before. But anyway my comment was misjudged by others.:(

Fazal
July 31, 2006, 07:26 PM
Whats the point of letting Ash play against weak team like Zim and Kenya? He will further go down. Don't trust my words? Ok fine.... but atleast you should trust your talented wonder boy's own word. Just do some research and check out what he said in the last series agains Zim in Bangladesh. Basically what he said is he doesn't feel motivated/challenged enough against weak team like Zim. And the result against Zim pretty much supports his own claim. His perfomance was pretty much pathetic.

Now do the maths.... if your own wonder boy doesn't believ what you are saying, what makes you think that the rest of the BD fans will believe that playing against Zim and Kenya will do any good to him? What he needs is take a break and check his head with a shrink. And when he gets a green signal again, he should wait at the bottom of the waiting queue for his next chance in national team.

shovon13
July 31, 2006, 07:48 PM
yeah i do remember him saying that. to me thats a 20 year old kid talking who has been pampered way too much. and indeed, ash has been praised so much since his debut century against lanka that his head got way too big for his body. his maturity will come with age, and he probably is a little behind his peer. none of this takes away from the kid's batting ability. there are a good number of bangladeshi batsmen that are far more composed, matured, consistent than ash. but no one is more talented. i understand that the word "talent" does not have a lot of value on this board. thats too bad.

shovon13
July 31, 2006, 08:03 PM
because talent is something that lets batsmen score 94 off 52 against a ridiculous pace attack on a pacey pitch in a pacey environment. not slogging (oh god no), not great patience (yeah right, i think patience was the only thing missing from that inning), not grit, not good shot selection (you cant score 94 off 52 against the likes of harmy with great shot selection), not luck (i dont need to explain that). i'm using that inning to point out the fact that ash has talent, and there are only a couple of other batsmen in bangladesh capable of playing that inning (i can only think of aftab, but i hope there are more). I, for one, know by heart that he isn't consistent. i've cursed at the computer way too many times for that.

you can ask me why do we need such a flashy batsman. we dont. we were chasing a monster total of 390+ that day. while ash was batting (with gullu, mind you), that target seemed gettable. not a lot of batsmen can do that. this inning was played by a little kid, in the context of both age and maturity. we need ash to grow up, for our team's sake.

thebest
July 31, 2006, 10:15 PM
because talent is something that lets batsmen score 94 off 52 against a ridiculous pace attack on a pacey pitch in a pacey environment. Then Afridi Shehwag and Jayasuria are the most talented batsman of the world. They are doing these more consistently than Ash. Do you believe this?
In case you forgot in that innings he got the most miraculas live in the cricketing memory.
I have enough of Ash. As I mentioned before, he should become a talk show host than playing cricket. Basit Ali was considered as the most talented Pakistani batsman after Miandad retirement. He almost single handenly defied WI pace attack in WI. But where is he now? National team is not day care center. Go to rainhill; they would do the baby sitting for you. Ash should be ashamed the way Farhad played; Or Mushfiq played in Lords or Mehrab played in U19. Can you show me one example where he played sensibly. All his famous innings are actually his miss and hit gamble ripped off. Numbers does not lie. 19 avearge after 70 ODI proved that.

sadi
August 1, 2006, 08:47 AM
turning out to be another ash thread... well I think he can have all the talent in the world but he should only play for the national team when he will be able to contribute regularly... not one innings after every twenty innings... I saw those innings and the way he played... I felt like he could have got out any seconds... most of them were slogs... atleast thats how it looked to me... I guess our best option is to play him at number 6 if we have to play him... he can play his shots there... obviously he doesn't know how to build an innings so there is no point making him do that

Fazal
August 1, 2006, 09:21 AM
turning out to be another ash thread...

Well ...looks like Little Idol fans are feeling the heat. After Gullu will be gone from the team, all attention will be on the Little Idol. And his fans have no confidence that he will do anything positive in the 3rd ODI or 4th ODI also. Thats why they are building a case so that his legacy continues beyond that based on shear potential and talent. Beacuse these terms are always relative and cannot be compared in absolute term.

Tigers_eye
August 1, 2006, 12:28 PM
I really don't get this. The BD players have faced McGrath, Harmisson under worse conditions and fared well. Almost every individual players did better (batting) then than what they are showing now. How come they can't cope with these medium pacers???? :mad: They can't swing a lick, yet BD players wants to get back to the pavillion in a hurry? Can't take singles or doubles??

Why do we self-distruct??? We should be winning by 100+ against this team. This is not acceptable to me even if we win 4-1 now. I know these boys had a long lay off but that does not explain the sorry outs they displayed. Look at the players averages in this series? There should be a good soul searching by the team management after this series. Otherwise there will be no soothing result in the World Cup. We are in a group where two other teams can score 400 on us with the blink of and eye. Alok'er ei shob bowling Zim jodi 7+ run korey ta holey Jaya ki korbey? Ah!! Shewag are dhoni? If the management can't get the lineup correct we should not send a team to the world cup, just to see an embarrassing performance.

LateCut
August 1, 2006, 12:37 PM
But all these words advocating what should/would/could happen with Ashraful are not going to change the reality that he is an integral part of the BD team at the moment, no matter what his form is.

Oh really? Are you by any chance a member of the selection committee? You seem to have the same mindset as those fools.

shovon13
August 1, 2006, 06:13 PM
nevermind. i was putting out my perspective on the issue. i am not about to blow my brains out if ash is dropped from the team. in fact, i suggested that is not a bad idea at all. i was merely proposing we wait on that until this tour is over, for a reason i already explained.

Sam
August 1, 2006, 07:17 PM
After the third ODI and based on their performances the Team management should rethink about the position of few players like Ash, JO and anybody who will not be performing well and TI should fly immediately to Harare, if necessary, .