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sar2005
August 4, 2006, 10:03 AM
Enough is Enough! We have nothing in these current bunch of BD players for futures. We must need a re-shaffling. I can't express how heart breaking this searries lost against ZIM is. There is definitely something going wrong. We MUST need change. If these bunch of people can't win a game against ZIM which is such a poor team in terms of world standard, what do you expect from them going forward?

I would strongly propose my 12 players for rest of the safari. By this, at least we can find out our future -

S.Nafees
R.Saleh
A.Ahmed
M.Ashraful
Saqib
Reza
Mushfiq
Rafiq
Razzak
Murtuza
Russel/Shahadat

Selectors should consider it deeply and give us this eleven for rest of the tour.

sadi
August 4, 2006, 10:05 AM
And who is your captain??

Orpheus
August 4, 2006, 10:06 AM
I would put pilot instead of Mushfiq and give captaincy to Shahriar Nafees ... and you got your team

Miraz
August 4, 2006, 10:08 AM
I would put pilot instead of Mushfiq and give captaincy to Shahriar Nafees ... and you got your team

Again Pilot???

In that case we should end our innings after 9 wicket as he should bat at no 11 and he has lost even his slogging ability.

sadi
August 4, 2006, 10:08 AM
definately our young generation has to take over from here... let those young kids play odi... and keep some buras for test matches... bring mehrab jr

sar2005
August 4, 2006, 10:12 AM
And who is your captain??

Choose one whom you like from my team to lead the team. There are many better Captain than Pilot in this list.

Sovik
August 4, 2006, 10:12 AM
My battinng order would be
Nafees & Rajin as opener
Reza 3rd,
Sakib 4th
Aftab 5
Mushfiq 6th
ashraful 7th
Razzak
Rafiq
Russel/Mash
Shahadat
Rafiq

akabir77
August 4, 2006, 12:07 PM
I would make one chg in the team bring tusher as a captain and put him in place of rafiq. rafiq also lost it. he doesn't bowl in odi in africa at all....check the stats in africa for him. if we bring in tusher for him and send him #3 We will get a batsman, a captain and a 5/6/7 bowler.

sadi
August 4, 2006, 12:37 PM
If I had to pick the team for kenya, thats how my team would look like:

Shahriar Nafees (C)
Rajin Saleh
Aftab Ahmed
Sakib Al Hasan
Mehrab JR
Mohammad Ashraful
Forhad Reza
Mushfiqur Rahim
Abdur Razzak
Mashrafee Mortaza
Shahadat Hussain

Yeah, I rested Rafique and Pilot. We can go with these young kids and see what they can do against Kenya. They will still be in my test team though.

Tigers_eye
August 4, 2006, 12:39 PM
individual average for this series:
ARazzaq infinite
KMasud 46.5
SNafis 32.5
RSaleh 32.5
FReza 31.67
AAftab 30
HBashar 22.5
MAshraful 20.25

And you guys want to kick KM out of the team. nice. BD would fold within 175 then. #7 batsmen/WK leading the team on average tells you the sorry state of the other 6 batsmen ahead of him.

sadi
August 4, 2006, 12:46 PM
I am not kicking him out... I want to see what Mushfiq has to offer... Maybe we need a major shakeup... I just feel like the attitude is not there... something must be done...

tutul
August 4, 2006, 01:31 PM
no ash pls. he wont do any good. mark my word.

Ahmed_B
August 4, 2006, 01:54 PM
S.Nafees
R.Saleh
A.Ahmed
M.Ashraful
Saqib
Reza
Mushfiq
Rafiq
Razzak
Murtuza
Russel/Shahadat

It's quite interesting that you kicked Pilot out.. yet managed to keep Ashrafool in this squad.

What was the criteria of selection in this case?
Age? (could be..)
Performance? (surely not!)
Or is it the anger of losing the series and putting the whole blame on Pilot alone? (very likely!)
Is that any different than the selection process of our 'talented' management??

sadi
August 4, 2006, 02:09 PM
It's quite interesting that you kicked Pilot out.. yet managed to keep Ashrafool in this squad.

What was the criteria of selection in this case?
Age? (could be..)
Performance? (surely not!)
Or is it the anger of losing the series and putting the whole blame on Pilot alone? (very likely!)
Is that any different than the selection process of our 'talented' management??

maybe strikerate :)

Fazal
August 4, 2006, 02:15 PM
...... or all those runs outs....or bowling rotation.... or batting first after winning toss .... or (himself) batting at #7 ahead of Razzak, Rafique or mashrafee.... or all of them

Spitfire_x86
August 4, 2006, 02:29 PM
It's quite interesting that you kicked Pilot out.. yet managed to keep Ashrafool in this squad.

What was the criteria of selection in this case?
Age? (could be..)
Performance? (surely not!)
Or is it the anger of losing the series and putting the whole blame on Pilot alone? (very likely!)
Is that any different than the selection process of our 'talented' management??
Scapegoats = Good.

Post WC2003 cleanup was good for the team, although not 100% logical. Pick out the worst offenders, give them maximum punishment. Forgive the minor offenders, and let these examples be an warning for them.

HawkEye000
August 4, 2006, 02:33 PM
In the 4 matches Mashud made 93 runs of 163 balls coming in the death overs and was always running his partners out, and this clearly shows how busy this guy is securing his own place in the team

Farhad Reza batted in the same situation as Mashud and made 95 runs from 133 balls. Atleast this guy tried to take some risks to help Bangladesh post up a decent total.

HawkEye000
August 4, 2006, 02:58 PM
individual average for this series:
ARazzaq infinite
KMasud 46.5
SNafis 32.5
RSaleh 32.5
FReza 31.67
AAftab 30
HBashar 22.5
MAshraful 20.25

And you guys want to kick KM out of the team. nice. BD would fold within 175 then. #7 batsmen/WK leading the team on average tells you the sorry state of the other 6 batsmen ahead of him.

That 48 not out of 77 deliveries is skewing that average up. In that same match Farhad made 50 of only 57 balls and Rafique 33 of 44 delieveries.

Even in the 3rd match he made a mere 11 but wasting 33 delieveries when Razzaq could make 20 of 22 balls.

In the 4th ODI that guy made 20 of 36 delieveries when Mash made 23 of 28 balls.

These little contributions can be helpful to the team but not at the rate he scored which infact puts added pressure on the other batsmen batting in the slog overs.

Don't forget all those runouts for which he was the totally responsible.

Tigers_eye
August 4, 2006, 03:35 PM
.... but not at the rate he scored which infact puts added pressure on the other batsmen batting in the slog overs...
Do you have any idea what builds pressure? Allow me to explain what pressure is.

1st ODI: since the top order played decently that allowed KM to play his game. Hence 48 out 77. 62% strike rate.

2nd ODI: 5/76 (30.4 overs left). Now that is pressure. Building partnership was the only way he could go. Reza going after and he anchoring.

3rd ODI: 5 down with 16 overs left. If he goes, the tail would fold. Knowing all he could do is at least make sure BD plays the 50 overs. yet BD finished 5 balls remaining.

4th ODI: 5/137 with 17 overs left. Worse situation than 3rd ODI.

We have a partnership average of 14.25 and 19.75 for the 1st and 2nd down. That undoubtedly put pressure on the rest of the team whether you admit it or not. That is the clear fact. And that 19.75 was skewed by the last partnership of SN and AA of 52. So we were 2 down with the score 35. When you are putting up a score (batting first) you must have a solid start.

Lets look at Zim's innings. 1st Down partnership 25, 2nd Down partnership 36.75. They were two down with 50 on board. With a somewhat solid starts, with shear determination they beat us. Pure and simple.

Stop blaming Pilot for the losses.

HawkEye000
August 4, 2006, 03:45 PM
You are not getting what I am saying. Farhad never was taking any extra risk when he made that 50 of 57 balls. He was just playing his natural game. Just look at how Matsi, Chigumbura and Taylor played when there was a collapse, they just made 70 or 80 odd runs at run a ball. What we need is players of that mould who can score at a decent rate even when there has been a collapse or things get tough. Mashud is just gonna slow things up whatever the situation of the game is. Make him bat at a situation like 200 for 4 after 40 overs, he would still make Bangladesh end with a total below 250 score.

Tigers_eye
August 4, 2006, 03:50 PM
I know what you are saying but mashud can hit sixes. Go back to ICC trophy game last ball. The situation he was in these matches didnot allow him to do so knowing he is the last line of defense. Actually he is the only one beside rajin who can play as the situation demands. But as Sadi said we need a drastic shakeup and need to see what Mushfiq can do, in that sense I can agree. But then with one game can you judge the boy?

Fazal
August 4, 2006, 03:52 PM
All I know is that when we have player like Gullu, Rajin and Pilot playing together... he have no hope of winning. With their current form we will never reach a respectable total (like 270+) when they play long enough. They may save us once in a while from collupse. But at this point I don't care .... beacuse by this time our target should not be a respectable loss but big wins against teams like ZIM and Kenya. Fordat proved that there are plenty of players from U-19 who are capable of doing both in the middle order i.e. hold the wicket, score some 1s and 2s to keep the RR decent and then know how to finish the innings with 4s and 6s.

If any one still thinks Pilot deserve no blame.... then thats their problem.... but as far as my concern .... amoung the players I blame Pilot the most after Gullu.

sadi
August 4, 2006, 03:55 PM
ofcourse not, you can't judge the boy in one game... thats why he should play the remaining four games... we know what Pilot is capable of and if Mushfiq experiment doesn't work out for now, we can go back to him in champions trophy...

sadi
August 4, 2006, 03:58 PM
I don't even regard Forhad that highly... I think Sakib, Mehrab jr or Nazmus Sadat are better batsmen than him and if he can play the way he did, I am sure the one I mentioned should play better....

Pilot is a wicketkeeper first though... so if we are blaming Pilot for our batting, we have some serious problem in the toporder... he should come down the order if he needs to play... but we should see if Mushfiq can do well

Tigers_eye
August 4, 2006, 04:00 PM
.... but as far as my concern .... amoung the players I blame Pilot the most after Gullu.
Even Ash, Bashar are spared, lol. We are still living under the "potential" word and not performance. Pilot comes as a seven down. By that time against Zim, Kenya we should already reach 200+ if we want to get to 270+. What do you expect from a 7 down batsman? Play as a top order? I guess your expectation on Pilot is alot higher, hense the proportionate of the blame is higher.

Fazal
August 4, 2006, 04:01 PM
Pilot is a wicketkeeper first though... so if we are blaming Pilot for our batting, we have some serious problem in the toporder... he should come down the order if he needs to play...

But the problem is Pilot himself thinks that he is still a good batsman.... it doesn't matter what I or you think.... thats why he comes at #7 ahead of Razzak, Rafiq and Mashrafee.

sadi
August 4, 2006, 04:04 PM
thats why he shouldn't do the thinking part... the captain should and he is not doing the captaincy again... atleast in my world

HawkEye000
August 4, 2006, 04:05 PM
I know what you are saying but mashud can hit sixes. Go back to ICC trophy game last ball. The situation he was in these matches didnot allow him to do so knowing he is the last line of defense. Actually he is the only one beside rajin who can play as the situation demands.

I think you are wrong about this. The only way Mashud and Rajin knows to play is in an utra defensive manner. They dont have the ability to score at decent rates even when the situation demands so. A batsman at position 6-8 should have the ability to get things going and score at run a ball even when things are tough. If Zimbabwe have players like Matsi and Chig coming at 6 and 7 who can score at run a ball whatever the situation is, then it's really sad that we still have to rely on that slow old Mashud.

HawkEye000
August 4, 2006, 04:07 PM
I don't even regard Forhad that highly... I think Sakib, Mehrab jr or Nazmus Sadat are better batsmen than him and if he can play the way he did, I am sure the one I mentioned should play better....


That's what i was thinking too. If Farhad can outperform Mashud and co; Mehrab,Saqib, Mushfiq and Nazmus are even better batsmen than Farhad.

Fazal
August 4, 2006, 04:07 PM
Even Ash, Bashar are spared, lol. We are still living under the "potential" word and not performance. Pilot comes as a seven down. By that time against Zim, Kenya we should already reach 200+ if we want to get to 270+. What do you expect from a 7 down batsman? Play as a top order? I guess your expectation on Pilot is alot higher, hense the proportionate of the blame is higher.

I gave up on Ash. There is no point of mentiong his name. You know my position about Ash. About Bashar, I think the result would have been different if he were playing regardless how less he would contribute....

I don't want Pilot ot come at #7. He should play in #10. He shouldn't be playing anywhere near Forhad, Sakib or Rahim. I don't trust him with these young kids' career in hand.


And don't bring Pilot's old stat about whether he hit a 6 or not. I appreciate his past performance, he was vital in the past, but now with his current form and maybe age he cannot do it any more. He proved that in this series. In future he may gain back... who knows..... but not in current form.

Tigers_eye
August 4, 2006, 04:08 PM
Thank you Hawkeye.
Could also please explain what 1-5 batsmen should be able to do? That should put the light where we should focus on be cause we can't score 250 against a side that has no fast bowlers, no swing bowlers, all medium pacers and just one quality spinner.

HawkEye000
August 4, 2006, 04:11 PM
Pilot is a wicketkeeper first though... so if we are blaming Pilot for our batting

England just dropped Gerant Jones for his batting nothing to do with his keeping. These days wicket keepers need to be a specialist batsman too.

Tigers_eye
August 4, 2006, 04:21 PM
England just dropped Gerant Jones for his batting nothing to do with his keeping. These days wicket keepers need to be a specialist batsman too.
Please donot compare English team with ours. They have a stable lineup even with half of their main players out. Whereas we have the most inconsistant top order in the whole wide world. When we would get a batsmen who can keep a little, then we would leak byes, miss catches like the united states or hongkong team. One life all that the world's best batsmen needs to put us into submission. Not worth gambling.

Folks, its friday, and all these loses is taking a toll on me. I hope you guys a have a great week end.

HawkEye000
August 4, 2006, 04:25 PM
Thank you Hawkeye.
Could also please explain what 1-5 batsmen should be able to do? That should put the light where we should focus on be cause we can't score 250 against a side that has no fast bowlers, no swing bowlers, all medium pacers and just one quality spinner.

I was never saying we have the perfect 1-5 batsmen. But we do have Nafees and Aftab who have the potential and had performed resonably well in the series. Then Bashar would be coming back. And if Saqib, Mehrab and Nazmus can make a smooth transition then things would be better for us. I haven't given up on Ash yet, even De Silva had a similar start in his career.

My pov is that players like Mashud, Rajin and Javed would never give us any wins. They would just make those slow 30s or 40s which would make those defeats look a bit better. What we need is players who are aggresive enough who can give us the odd win here and there. That is type of mentality Sri lanka relied on in their early days, and see where they are now. We need match-winners even if they win us a match once in every 5 matches.

kalpurush
August 4, 2006, 05:22 PM
My battinng order would be
Nafees & Rajin as opener
Reza 3rd,
Sakib 4th
Aftab 5
Mushfiq 6th
ashraful 7th
Razzak
Rafiq
Russel/Mash
Shahadat
Rafiq

Rafiq is twice in the team! Is he Rafiq jr? I like it though.

Miraz
August 5, 2006, 05:32 AM
I know what you are saying but mashud can hit sixes. Go back to ICC trophy game last ball.

We should send Mashud back to the ICC trophy level. He is a batsman of that level. No way he belongs to test level or full members level.

He is a demoralising, selfish and carp batsman.

Miraz
August 5, 2006, 05:36 AM
I was never saying we have the perfect 1-5 batsmen. But we do have Nafees and Aftab who have the potential and had performed resonably well in the series. Then Bashar would be coming back. And if Saqib, Mehrab and Nazmus can make a smooth transition then things would be better for us. I haven't given up on Ash yet, even De Silva had a similar start in his career.

My pov is that players like Mashud, Rajin and Javed would never give us any wins. They would just make those slow 30s or 40s which would make those defeats look a bit better. What we need is players who are aggresive enough who can give us the odd win here and there. That is type of mentality Sri lanka relied on in their early days, and see where they are now. We need match-winners even if they win us a match once in every 5 matches.

I second you, HawkEye000.

This is the reality and we should act accordingly.

sar2005
August 5, 2006, 05:52 AM
It's quite interesting that you kicked Pilot out.. yet managed to keep Ashrafool in this squad.

What was the criteria of selection in this case?
Age? (could be..)
Performance? (surely not!)
Or is it the anger of losing the series and putting the whole blame on Pilot alone? (very likely!)
Is that any different than the selection process of our 'talented' management??

Ture I made the team from complete anger but don't agree it's in line with our so called talented team management. They never make the eleven rationally. Otherwise can you answer why Sakib is sitting beside after so many failure within the team? Can you tell why alok is back and back after so much of terrible performance? Can you tell why Golla is continiously still holding opening slot of ODI instead of test only?

You are right, I mostly focused on the age who can deliver in future at least. 10/15 failure by Sakib, Mushfiq, Mehrab (jr) exactly like their seniors will not make much differences to our team. Only difference will be in future when Sakib/Mushfiq can still play where Golla/Pilot can not.

akabir77
August 5, 2006, 01:52 PM
cats_eye

DO u honestly believe that pilot should be in the team and ash, shumon should be dropped?????

Pilot is the cancer in the team he does what its needed to keep him in the team not for the team... the way he didn't sacrifice his wkt for reza was unthinkable.....

Mongia of india was dropped (even though he was in good form at that time) just becuase he didn't let azahar stay and sacrifice his as azhar was with 20+ score at that time so why not pilot???

We shouldn't keep a selfish player like him in the team no matter what his form is???

Just go and seee what happen to TO in NFL. such a good player but no team wants his cause he is not a team player

sar2005
August 5, 2006, 03:22 PM
BANGLADESH TEAM 5th ODI
Khaled Mashud (captain)
Shahriar Nafees
Rajin Saleh
Aftab Ahmed
Mohammad Ashraful
Forhad Reza
Sakib Al Hasan
Mushfiqur Rahim
Mohammad Rafique
Abdur Razzak
Syed Rasel

Era amar kotha ta shunlo na! Shob e thik chilo kintu pilot keno. Probably Mashrafee should be still there instead of Pilot as I said in my first post of this thread. We don't need 2 WKeeper, moreover we are needing one more medium pacer in the team.

Looks like Sadi was right. Pilot is still there just for captency and Pilot's captency? He sucks......

sar2005
August 5, 2006, 03:28 PM
It's quite interesting that you kicked Pilot out.. yet managed to keep Ashrafool in this squad.



Ashraful is one of those players who can win a match for us on his day........that of course you also know. Anyway, Pilot is still there with the cost of Mashrafee which may not do good for us. Otherwise my emotional team is what you are hopefully getting tomorrow :)

sar2005
August 6, 2006, 11:56 AM
Trust me guys, these young kids can give us more than the oldies today and take us to a bright future. They are by born cricketers whereas many of our oldies came into cricket by hobby.

Let's keep these young kids in the side for Kenya tour as well.

Miraz
August 6, 2006, 04:13 PM
I would prefer to keep the same playing XI with Mashrafee in for Pilot and Shahadat in for Rasel for the first ODI.

So for the first ODI my team

S Nafees
Rajin
Aftab
Sakib
Ashraful
Farhad
Mushfiq (wk)
Rafiq
Razzaq
Mashrafee
Shahadat

This is the best possible XI in absence of Bashar. I would pick anyone from Ashraful, S Nafees or Aftab as captain.

I know Pilot is going to stay as captain to add furthe misery. In that case Shahadat have to sit out:E

Spitfire_x86
August 6, 2006, 04:33 PM
I know Pilot is going to stay as captain to add furthe misery. In that case Shahadat have to sit out
No, we can't do the gamble of going with only 1 specialist pacer in every match. Farhad Reza is not an opening bowler.

We should drop Ashraful for the Kenya series. Lack of pace in Kenyan bowlers "irritate him". Without Ashraful, Pilot's normal batting position would be #7. And if our 5th wicket falls in the last 10 overs, then team management will surely send Rafique before Pilot. So hopefully he won't be able to do too much damage.

Rabz
August 7, 2006, 01:54 AM
i think Ash deserves to be left out of the team in the Kenya series..
to teach him a lesson. plus he also cant seem to perform against the other minnow !! let him carry the water for Sakib's and Reza. but with Bashar's absence, i guess dont hv any choice but to give him a go..

i saw somebody earlier suggested DaFool at No7. sorrry cant agree with it. with a player like him, either he plays at No 4,5 or doenst at all. No 7 is usually for allrounder or keeper.not a place for him.

I dont get the fuss about Pilot. yes, he is probably the worst captain, but he is still irreplacable in the team, when it comes to keeping. i dont think Rahim is ready yet to play the games. Pilot is not a beautiful dasher, he is a worker of a ball, a fighter and thats how he plays his game. plus u dont expect him to play aftab-esque coming at NO 7.

also remember how Rahim dropped a sitter in the last game, just at the beginning.. that goes to show also that u cant take him as a specialist batsmen in the team, cuz he is not also a ready-fielder. its very hard for a Wk to go out and field when he is so used to with the feelings of his gloves. plus his battin hasnt bn any great yet to consider him solely as a batsmen...not just yet...

My team for Kenya series would be:

Shahriar Nafees
Rajin Saleh
Aftab Ahmad
AshDaFool
Sakib Hassan
Farhad Reza
Khaled Mashud (c) Wk
Mohammad Rafique
Abdur Razzak
Mashrafee
Shahadat

Batting:
4 specialist batsmen (SN RS AA MA)
2 Allrounders good with bat ( SH FR)
1 Keeper decent with bat (KM)
2 Pinch Hitters ( MR MM)

Bowling:
2 Strike bowler ( MM SH)
1 third seamer ( FR)
2 specialist spinner ( MR AR)
1 third spinner ( SH)
1 back up spinner ( RS)

IMHO, that is a very well balanced team

Tokyobreeze
August 7, 2006, 04:08 AM
How about considering Rajin for captaincy (he was vice-captain) once.That helps us to put Musfique Rahim in the squad.I don't have any hope on Ash-Fool.I would rather try my luck with Mehrab Jr.

My Team is -

1. Shahriar Nafess
2. Rajin Saleh (Captain)
3. Mehrab Jr.
4. Farhad
5. Aftab
6. Sakib
7. Mushfique Rahim
8. Rafique
9. Razzaque
10. Shahadat
11. Mash / Rasel

thebest
August 7, 2006, 04:36 AM
After the heart breaking lose, I have not logged in let alone posted. I would drop Ash and Pilot and bring back Rajib and Mash. So here is my XI. Some would say, I make already weak batting weaker. But of the lot only SN and Aftab are gambler. Rest take calculative risk. So they are less prone of throwing wicket. Just like Gullu I do not want Pilot within 100 m of Bangladesh One Day team.
Nafees (C)
Rajin
Aftab
Sakib
Mushfiq
Farhad
Rafiq
Rajjak
Mash
Rasel
Rajib

ononto
August 7, 2006, 04:44 AM
i think Ash deserves to be left out of the team in the Kenya series..
to teach him a lesson. plus he also cant seem to perform against the other minnow !! let him carry the water for Sakib's and Reza. but with Bashar's absence, i guess dont hv any choice but to give him a go..

i saw somebody earlier suggested DaFool at No7. sorrry cant agree with it. with a player like him, either he plays at No 4,5 or doenst at all. No 7 is usually for allrounder or keeper.not a place for him.

I dont get the fuss about Pilot. yes, he is probably the worst captain, but he is still irreplacable in the team, when it comes to keeping. i dont think Rahim is ready yet to play the games. Pilot is not a beautiful dasher, he is a worker of a ball, a fighter and thats how he plays his game. plus u dont expect him to play aftab-esque coming at NO 7.

also remember how Rahim dropped a sitter in the last game, just at the beginning.. that goes to show also that u cant take him as a specialist batsmen in the team, cuz he is not also a ready-fielder. its very hard for a Wk to go out and field when he is so used to with the feelings of his gloves. plus his battin hasnt bn any great yet to consider him solely as a batsmen...not just yet...

My team for Kenya series would be:

Shahriar Nafees
Rajin Saleh
Aftab Ahmad
AshDaFool
Sakib Hassan
Farhad Reza
Khaled Mashud (c) Wk
Mohammad Rafique
Abdur Razzak
Mashrafee
Shahadat

Batting:
4 specialist batsmen (SN RS AA MA)
2 Allrounders good with bat ( SH FR)
1 Keeper decent with bat (KM)
2 Pinch Hitters ( MR MM)

Bowling:
2 Strike bowler ( MM SH)
1 third seamer ( FR)
2 specialist spinner ( MR AR)
1 third spinner ( SH)
1 back up spinner ( RS)

IMHO, that is a very well balanced team

This seems logical and I support your team. We obviously need couple of seniors to lead the team regardless who they are and at this moment as the choices are limited we have to have Pilot and Rafique on the team. Musfique has a bright future obviously and could be exposed only in the last matches of any series and that way he could slowly make his step to replace Pilot.

PoorFan
August 7, 2006, 05:09 AM
Let Ash play the Kenya series and let the loser eat up his own words ( for the last time perhaps ).

Welcome back thebest, we all had a hard time.

thebest
August 7, 2006, 05:10 AM
you know I m actually happy tht Ash is not scoring. He would bring the 'eid' in WC 2007

Rabz
August 7, 2006, 07:19 AM
welcome back thebest... lolz to what u said...
yes..if he keeps his bad form.... hope he can shine during the world cup...
then we'll certainly hv a "eid er upor lal shukru bar"

Miraz
August 7, 2006, 07:31 AM
you know I m actually happy tht Ash is not scoring. He would bring the 'eid' in WC 2007

If he continues to fail in this way, I doubt whether he will be able to play in WC 2007.

mac
August 7, 2006, 11:17 AM
1)S Nafees
2)Rajin
3)Aftab
4)Saqib
5)Ashrafool( The greatest gadha)
6)Reja
7)Raffique
8)Razzaq
9)Pilot
10)Rassel
11)Sahadat
And my all time favourite 12th man is golla. love to see him doing this job.

HawkEye000
August 8, 2006, 02:32 AM
1. Shahriar Nafees
2. Rajin Saleh
3. Aftab Ahmed
4. Sakib Hassan
5. Ashraful
6. Farhad Reza
7. Khaled Mashud (c) Wk
8. Mohammad Rafique
9. Abdur Razzak
10. Mashrafee
11. Shahadat


This seems like everone's choice for the first eleven for the Kenya tour, but I dont see any logic behind playing with 6 frontline bowlers (Mashrafe, Shahadat, Razzaq, Rafique, Sakib, Farhad) and two part-time bowlers (Rajin and Aftab). What's the use of having allrounders like Sakib if we cannot have an extra batsman. With Farhad batting at 6, our batting looks quite vulnerable. I know he was quite impressive with the bat but he is more of a number 7 batsman, he even batted at 7 or 8 for the 'A' team. Sakib is quite capable of bowling 10 overs and Rajin and Aftab can also chip in with some overs if necessary. So dropping one of Farhad, Shahadat, Mashrafe, Razzaq or Rafique and taking an extra batsman would make more sense.

~ Razzaq has been our best bowler in the Zimb series

~ Mash and Shahadat needs to be the new ball operators as Farhad hasn't been quite impressive with the new ball

~ Of these 5, Farhad is the most competent with the bat

~ Rafique had a somewhat average series comsidering his high standards, but still was better than most

*** The other thing ofcourse is whether we have a capable enough batsman. Kapali & Javed are worthless, playing Mushfiq as a specialist batsman just puts some extra pressure on the young man's shoulder, and Tushar always seems to keep his worst for the Bangladesh national team.

So it would be pretty interesting to see who the selectors (or team mangement or whoever actually selects the eleven) decide on taking in the eleven.

captain_thinking_tank
August 8, 2006, 04:11 AM
My team:

Nafees
Rajin
Reza
Aftab
Tushar
Sakib
Mushfiq
Razzak
Rafiq
Mortoza/Rassel
Shahadat

dont care who is the captain. Mashud, Ashraful, Alok, and Golla can go to zoo, or watch movie or eat peanuts. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

bapzmania
August 8, 2006, 06:51 AM
also remember how Rahim dropped a sitter in the last game, just at the beginning.. that goes to show also that u cant take him as a specialist batsmen in the team, cuz he is not also a ready-fielder. its very hard for a Wk to go out and field when he is so used to with the feelings of his gloves. plus his battin hasnt bn any great yet to consider him solely as a batsmen...not just yet...


I want to ask u did u see the earlier stage of Mashud's career when he is also used to miss some easy chances and you also said about Musfiq that he didn't do anything great so that why we will pick him as a batsman by the way how many opportunities you give Mushfiq so when he is getting a single chance then it's almost do or die position for him cause he have to done well or people will start talking what the **** he is

Fazal
August 8, 2006, 09:53 AM
With Farhad batting at 6, our batting looks quite vulnerable. I know he was quite impressive with the bat but he is more of a number 7 batsman, he even batted at 7 or 8 for the 'A' team. Sakib is quite capable of bowling 10 overs and Rajin and Aftab can also chip in with some overs if necessary. So dropping one of Farhad, Shahadat, Mashrafe, Razzaq or Rafique and taking an extra batsman would make more sense.


Good analysis.

However there are some points that I kind of disagree a lit-bit. We know that Farhad played in #6 in national team and even lower in team-a. And he did pretty good so far. Plus his natural batting position is #3 for domestic leagues. Actually at #6 in this series, he played more like a #4/#5 batsman, built his innings with 1s and 2s with decent RR and then opened his hand when the team reguired.

Sakib also showed in u-19 and team-a he a capable batsman. His problem may be too agressive for a #4. Based on past history we know that our #4 batman comes to bat when our team is in mini crisis mode.

These two players are young and unproven, and thats the risk we are taking against Kenya. But capabilty wise (to build a innings) I have more confidence in them than Ash or even Aftab at this moment.


About dropping one and adding another batsman? I would rather do the following (once in a while one at a time but not all at the same time) to bolster the batting:

1. Give Rest to Pilot in one game and bring Rahim
2. Give Rest to Rafique one game and bring back Tushar/Rahim
3. Give mashrafee/Shahadat a break and bring back Tushar/Rahim/Alok

I will also do the following:

4. If he continue to fail in one more innings, give Ash a break in one of these games to send a clear signal.

5. Keep playing these players for all three games:
- Sakib,
- Farhad, and even
- Razzak.
Also I would include Rahim as much as I can either as a pure batsman or as a wicketkeeper batsman. These are all unknown comodity in our national team. This is the opportunity for all of us (including the selectors) to see how much they are ready for next challenge... is any one of them is ready for the next challenge against better team or not.

Rabz
August 8, 2006, 10:16 AM
I want to ask u did u see the earlier stage of Mashud's career when he is also used to miss some easy chances and you also said about Musfiq that he didn't do anything great so that why we will pick him as a batsman by the way how many opportunities you give Mushfiq so when he is getting a single chance then it's almost do or die position for him cause he have to done well or people will start talking what the **** he is

at no point i indicated that he is sh**... or any other 4 letter words...

i just said he is not ready yet.. to play as a specialist batsmen in the team, cuz we could use an allrounder in that position. had he batted in the last odi against Zims, he would hv come at either 6 or 7. now thats not a position for a specialist batsmen in an odi, that is meant for a allrounder. plus his feilding would also be a disadvantage working on his behalf. dropping catches, mis fieldings would be expected from someone who is more used to keeping. and hence, it puts more pressure on him and as a result, he fails to perform.

and about chances and limelight?? c'mon man..he probably got most chances among those u-19 boys so far... he toured England with the National team, even played in the Lord's test, played in a test match against SL at Bogra, been the captain of the u-19 team.

u hv to justify ur decision based on the place he is going to occupy in the team, and for this moment, i just dont see him doing that. he can be tried out as replacement of Pilot, once in while but not regularly. may be that match, 5th odi of a lost series, was a perfect opportunity to play him and they did, and i dont hv any complains about that. but too much of an early exposure can lead to his ruins, and i purely just dont want that. i really want good for this kid and believe he has something to offer. thats all.

take it easy.

Miraz
August 8, 2006, 10:20 AM
Good analysis.

However there are some points that I kind of disagree a lit-bit. We know that Farhad played in #6 in national team and even lower in team-a. And he did pretty good so far. Plus his natural batting position is #3 for domestic leagues. Actually at #6 in this series, he played more like a #4/#5 batsman, built his innings with 1s and 2s with decent RR and then opened his hand when the team reguired.

Sakib also showed in u-19 and team-a he a capable batsman. His problem may be too agressive for a #4. Based on past history we know that our #4 batman comes to bat when our team is in mini crisis mode.

These two players are young and unproven, and thats the risk we are taking against Kenya. But capabilty wise (to build a innings) I have more confidence in them than Ash or even Aftab at this moment.


About dropping one and adding another batsman? I would rather do the following (once in a while one at a time but not all at the same time) to bolster the batting:

1. Give Rest to Pilot in one game and bring Rahim
2. Give Rest to Rafique one game and bring back Tushar/Rahim
3. Give mashrafee/Shahadat a break and bring back Tushar/Rahim/Alok

I will also do the following:

4. If he continue to fail in one more innings, give Ash a break in one of these games to send a clear signal.

5. Keep playing these players for all three games:
- Sakib,
- Farhad, and even
- Razzak.
Also I would include Rahim as much as I can either as a pure batsman or as a wicketkeeper batsman. These are all unknown comodity in our national team. This is the opportunity for all of us (including the selectors) to see how much they are ready for next challenge... is any one of them is ready for the next challenge against better team or not.

Good post. I agree with you for the most part except Alok. It would be nice to try Sakib, Farhad, Mushfiq and Tushar. Alok should be dropped for his own good.

Fazal
August 8, 2006, 10:27 AM
Good post. I agree with you for the most part except Alok. It would be nice to try Sakib, Farhad, Mushfiq and Tushar. Alok should be dropped for his own good.

:lol: I was just trying to be neutral here. As Alok is already in the the team, why not raise the issue further. If he fails again ( which I suspect he will), there will be more pressure to the selectors.:D

cricket_dorshok
August 8, 2006, 10:30 AM
you know I m actually happy tht Ash is not scoring. He would bring the 'eid' in WC 2007

Then its better to drop him now, send him Rainhill to play parar cricket (Faruk will also earn some moneys!!!!) and pick him in WC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tigers_eye
August 8, 2006, 10:33 AM
We must think of the team first before trying out any new or semi new players. Would the combination help or hurt? Or we just want to see because we like the player? Or nodir apar kohey chariya nishchash... type of deal (desperate for something, anything than what we got). We are not a stable team yet. The performance they showed against Zimbabwe is almost as pathetic as the WC 2003. Bringing in inexperienced players in a bulk can hurt the team and the players confidence if they fail in the first few times. Too many talents has been wasted just because we wanted to taste what the unseen had to offer.

SL, Aus brings in one or two new players and allow them to grow within the team. They have senior players who performs in a consistant basis so then can see and learn. We have none like that. None. May be one in near future. So we have to be causious before making bold moves like sweeping changes in the line up.

Fazal
August 8, 2006, 11:09 AM
I think nobody is saying bringing any new players (not in the team yet) to try out. We are talking here the new players in this team (team of 14/15) that are already selected by the selectors for this series. And the selectors did it because even they are accused to be too conservative, they believe they are ready to be tried out in this series. Now lets see one by one who the new players that we are talking about?

1. Razzak. Played 19 ODI so far. Batting: ave=12.66, SR=79, Bowling EconR=3.96, SR=41.62)

2. Farhad Reza. Played 4 ODI so far. Batting: ave=31.66 (as #6 batsman), SR= 71, Bowling: EconR=4.65, SR=78.

3. Sakib. Played 1 ODI so far. Batting: ave=30* (as #4 batsman)m SR=61.22, Bowling: EconR=3.9, SR=60

4. Rahim. Played 1 ODI. Didn't bat.


Razzak already played 19 ODI and in this series, except for 1st ODI, his perfomance pretty much progressed game by game. Therefore, to me, Adding Razzak in the team is a no brainer (for now). I don't see any added risk here.

Farhad Reza played 4 games. He played very well with the bat at #6 like a solid pro, bowled well enough for the 1st three match he played. he kind of struggled when they used him as a opening bowler. At this level in his career he is no opening bowler for our national team... even a novice fan like me knows that. By continue to select Reza in al-rounder slot, I don't know where we are taking the risk here? Who do we have now to play at #6 all-rounder player that you feel more comfortable?


Sakib played just one game. He played well, very composed game both with the bat and the ball. He was one of the three spinners (along along with Rafiq and Razzak) who created enourmous pressrure (in 5th ODI) with tight bowling... that created the opportunity for other BD bowlers (like Rajin) to finish it off. Sakib is a natural hard hitting batsman. But look how he batted at #4? He batted exactly how the team required him to bat at that time, keep the wicket and let nafees finish it off. Now true there is no quarantee he will play good and not collupse. But to me we are taking more risk when we select Ash and Afatb in the team. So adding Sakik at #4 in this series, I don't see any added risk here.

Rahim. True how he will perform is still not clear to us. But see the team makeup. With the inclusion of allrounders Sakib, Farhad, Rafiq/Razzak (part time batsman), emergence of Rajin (part time bowler), now we can affort to add another batsman once in awhile. This will bring minimum pressure and therefore less risk in the team even Rahim fails.Plus we can bring Rahim as a wicket keeper in one of those games. We will loose some quality in the wicket keeping side. Plus Rahim has the most experience amoungf these young kids mentioned above (except for Razzak).

So sorry... I don't know.. what massive risk you are talking about? To me, players like Gullu, Ash, Alok, Afatb (to some extent) bring more risk in the team than trying out these young lads (mentioned above). To me it looks there is minimum 'risks' we are taking about, even some of them fails.

HawkEye000
August 8, 2006, 11:24 AM
We know that Farhad played in #6 in national team and even lower in team-a. And he did pretty good so far. Plus his natural batting position is #3 for domestic leagues. Actually at #6 in this series, he played more like a #4/#5 batsman, built his innings with 1s and 2s with decent RR and then opened his hand when the team reguired.


Farhad seems to have the quality of rebuilding in case of a collapse plus he has the ability to go for the shots if he comes in the slog over overs unlike Bd's current number 7 who seems to get tied up whatever the situation is. I have no doubt that he can be a good #4/#5 batsman too. The only thing I want from him now is improving his bowling a bit. He tends to give too many loose deliveries.

But ya my point was that Sakib, Farhad and the two part-time bowlers in Aftab and Rajin are quite capable of bowling 20 overs in a match. So with all 4 of them in our team, we do now have the luxury of having an extra batsman at number 7 and then a wk and 3 specialist bowlers to follow.

So with current squad we have, I thought Farhad seemed the best one for that number 7 position. The team can be something like that.

1. Nafees
2. Rajin
3. Aftab
4. Sakib
5. Ashraful
6. Mushfiq/Tushar
7. Farhad
8. Wk
9. Bowler 1
10. Bowler 2
11. Bowler 3

sadi
August 8, 2006, 11:49 AM
here is the problem... we need both masri and shahadat and rafique and razzak can't be dropped right now... who do you drop??

Tigers_eye
August 8, 2006, 12:02 PM
here is the problem... we need both masri and shahadat and rafique and razzak can't be dropped right now... who do you drop??
Drop rafiq, and add the three bowlers to hawkeye's 11. We have a under 24 team representing BD again. Back to sqaure one. Ah! "They are too young and inexperinced" excuse again. We need five more years for these boys and then we will beat the world to pulp. Bangladesh has potential.

Miraz
August 8, 2006, 12:09 PM
Drop rafiq, and add the three bowlers to hawkeye's 11. We have a under 24 team representing BD again. Back to sqaure one. Ah! "They are too young and inexperinced" excuse again. We need five more years for these boys and then we will beat the world to pulp. Bangladesh has potential.

A good soothing post :) :lol:

HawkEye000
August 8, 2006, 12:14 PM
Drop rafiq, and add the three bowlers to hawkeye's 11. We have a under 24 team representing BD again. Back to sqaure one. Ah! "They are too young and inexperinced" excuse again. We need five more years for these boys and then we will beat the world to pulp. Bangladesh has potential.

You are mising the wk's slot. Your favourite 'over 30' KM will be there I guess. And we were talking about the upcoming Kenya series and surely Bahsar would come and take one of the middle order position after he recovers from that injury.

thebest
August 8, 2006, 11:33 PM
here is the problem... we need both masri and shahadat and rafique and razzak can't be dropped right now... who do you drop??
If we give the W/k to mushi we could accomodate all.