PDA

View Full Version : some serious thoughts on our ODI squad


al Furqaan
August 13, 2006, 06:03 PM
guys...i've been thinking and i wanna see what you guys say. i think the topic of dropping bashar from our ODI side altogether has come up just once recently and no one paid it much heed.

i just want to bring this to our collective attention: should bashar be sacked from the ODI side? obviously this means he would be sacked from ODI captaincy. he would still be the captain of the Test team tho.

the reason i am even entertaining this possibility is because, we have a world cup on our hands in 7 to 8 months, and i really want to see our team advance out of the 1st round. but to do that we have to beat either india or sri lanka. and both teams have superb batting abilities.

i know we have a home series against zimbabe, a tri series with bermuda and canada, and the champs trophy, but i would lose all those matches if it meant we could advance to the 2nd round of the WC. its just really important to me (and for the team, i feel).

now bashar is a decent batsman in ODIs who has averaged around 30 over the past 20 odd games. now a couple of weeks ago, i would have said that dropping bashar is ridiculous. but now that we have at least 4 players who can give you 30 at least every other innings (aftab, saqib, reza, and SN) and add to that rajin and ash and the tail, you have a team that is much stronger than with bashar in.

the reason is that if bashar is to play, either saqib or reza must sit. i find that difficult to accept for the following reasons:

- saqib is too good to drop plus he is a legit all-rounder
- reza can give us a good score and quick too
- bashar can neither bowl like sakib or bat with the purpose of reza
- bashar is a poor fielder and is old
- bashar's captaincy is nothing spectacular
- perhaps most important, saqib and reza are both very matured unlike aftab, ash, and even bashar himself

the only thing bashar has going for him is experience, but when the youth is that strong, do you really need that experience?

the only potential problem is that we may have a poorer captaincy. but i am willing to at least take that risk for the good of the team.

further, i do not think that bashar will be absolutely absent. many members have been questioning whether aftab should open or not. in the event that he does open with SN, rajin would either drop to the MO or be replaced by bashar in the MO. i favor the 2nd option. tho rajin is one of my favorite players, he bats slowly. now i think that we can endure one such "tortoise" batsman. and when it comes to him and javed, a player with no bowling abilities and relative poor fielding, rajin wins hands down as our designated "tortoise." in fact, i think our team needs 1 tortoise and 5 batsman who can score at an average SR of 75.

it becomes doubly important to have a better 6th batsman than bashar, because we already are playing with a wicket keeper and not a keeper-batsman as most other teams. pilot is great behind the stumps, but his batting is fast declining with age. since bringing in mushfiq might hurt us as much as it helps, i would rather axe bashar situationally, at least, to make up for the batting deficiency.

Spitfire_x86
August 13, 2006, 06:22 PM
The soultion is simple. Rajin sits and Bashar plays. Either Aftab or Ash opens with SN.

al Furqaan
August 13, 2006, 06:30 PM
here are what the squads would look like (note: i am not advocating wholesale bashar exclusion)

base XI (turning tracks)

1 - rajin
2 - SN
3 - aftab
4 - saqib
5 - ash
6 - reza
7 - pilot*
8 - rafique
9 - razzak/rana
10 - mash
11 - rajib

base XI (green tops/bouncy tracks)

1 - rajin
2 - SN
3 - aftab
4 - saqib
5 - ash
6 - reza
7 - pilot*
8 - razzak
9 - mash
10 - rasel
11 - rajib

case 1 (rajin out of form + turning tracks)

1 - SN
2 - aftab
3 - saqib
4 - ashraful
5 - reza
6 - bashar*
7 - pilot
8 - rafique
9 - razzak/rana
10 - mash
11 - rajib

12 - rajin

case 2 (rajin out of form + green top)

1 - SN
2 - aftab
3 - saqib
4 - ash
5 - reza
6 - bashar*
7 - pilot
8 - razzak
9 - mash
10 - rasel
11 - rajib

12 - rajin

notes:

- rajin should be retained as 12th man, even when out of form for his fielding abilities
- when bashar plays, he can be captain. in this case we would have 2 situational ODI captains
- razzak should be our 1st spinner...he's economical and takes wickets
- on slow wickets, rajib should be the 2nd pacer since he has extra pace over rasel
- rotation of quicks is essential to prevent any of our big 3 getting hurt/burned out. mash should sit out every 3rd match, rajib every 4th. so that our base pace attack would like this over 4 games: mash-rajib, mash-rajib, rasel-rajib, rasel-mash. this way out of 4 games, mash and rajib each play 3, and rasel plays 2...and all are fresh.

al Furqaan
August 13, 2006, 06:32 PM
The soultion is simple. Rajin sits and Bashar plays. Either Aftab or Ash opens with SN.

do you mean to say that rajin should sit all the time? if so i disagree, and have proposed plans above adressing a number of situations. both aftab opening, as well as pacer rotation

Spitfire_x86
August 13, 2006, 06:47 PM
There is no point of playing Bashar at #6. Till we get a permanent replacement of captain Bashar (which is not in near future), we will always need him as captain unless he is injured.

For stabilizing the batting line-up, Bashar isn't really worse than Rajin. He recently improved somewhat as ODI batsman, and in terms of balls played per innings, I think Bashar and Rajin's average will be nearly same.

Rajin can come in the playing XI, depending on gameplan/condition/Reza & Sakib's form (batting form mainly).

HawkEye000
August 13, 2006, 06:51 PM
Whatever they do after Bashar comes back, they shouldn't drop Saqib.

This lad could be as good a ODI bowler as Rafique, and it was encouraging to see him outperform Rafique with the ball today. He really seemed an intelligent and thinking bolwer and tries to read the batsman's mind. Though because of his round arm action, he gives less air but still he gets more turn than Rafique. The other good aspect about his bowling was he rarely gives a bad delivery. So overall he is more than capable to be one of our main spinner in the ODI team. As for his batting, I have never seen a Bangladeshi batsman with better footwork. His feet movement was immaculate. Also unlike Ash and Aftab he doesn't prefer the aerial route and has the ability to be quite fluent without taking unnecassary risk. He really could be our first genuine allrounder and i hope the selectors does not mess with this lad.

As for Farhad, he was quite impressive with the bat but his bowling has let him down. I dont think his bowling is good enough for international cricket. Maybe if they dont bring him during the first 20 overs (i.e. during power play), he could be a more economical bolwer. He seems to lack control and at the pace he bowls the margin of error is really less. They should think of using him in the middle overs when the batsmen are not in an aggressive mood and he can chip in 5-6 overs during that time. But using him as opening bowler or during the power play won't work.

The only player we should think of dropping is Rajin. The only thing he seem to be good at is leaving and defending. He really isn't comfortable playing shots and we should seriously think about droppimg him. Anyone of Mehrab jnr and Nazmus Sadat should be way better than Rajin in ODI cricket. we may even think of drafting Aftab as opener.

The selectors should also think of resting (or dropping) Ash for a series or so. The way he got out was really disgraceful. Our younger crop of batsmen seems a lot more responsible. If Ash doesn't get his acts together, it wont be long long before he would turn himself into another Rokon.

Spitfire_x86
August 13, 2006, 06:57 PM
Here's balls/innings and career SR stats

SN: 50 BPI - 66 SR
Rajin: 44 BPI - 55 SR
Bashar: 35 BPI - 60 SR
Aftab: 31 BPI - 81 SR
Ashraful: 27 BPI - 72 SR

From the stats, Bashar is a perfectly viable replacement of Rajin in terms of only batting merits.

HawkEye000
August 13, 2006, 07:00 PM
do you mean to say that rajin should sit all the time? if so i disagree, and have proposed plans above adressing a number of situations. both aftab opening, as well as pacer rotation

Rajin shouldn't be playing in the ODi team. Fitsly his SR is 55. Does he make that up by giving us more stability at the top? The answer is no. So he is neither flluent nor solid. Why do we need a player like that. As for now either Ash or Aftab can partner Nafees.

Spitfire_x86
August 13, 2006, 07:01 PM
The selectors should also think of resting (or dropping) Ash for a series or so. The way he got out was really disgraceful. Our younger crop of batsmen seems a lot more responsible. If Ash doesn't get his acts together, it wont be long long before he would turn himself into another Rokon.
In U-19 World Cup, our top order was very fragile. So don't have too much faith on them.

al Furqaan
August 13, 2006, 07:02 PM
spitty...you are working with the assumption that reza and saqib be dropped due to bad form. but i would put if not both, then at least saqib, in the "do not drop" list along with SN, ash, aftab, and mashrafee. the players who in their day can change a game singlehandedly. rafiq and rajib are DND in tests, and perhaps rajib can deserve that tag as well. but in ODIs i would say, rafiq, bashar, and even razzak and rasel are dropable if they don't perform.

so i see a bit of difficulty. however, reza may be droppable. in that case it would work.

cricket_pagol
August 13, 2006, 07:05 PM
Bashar is simply our best and most consistent batsmen. His experience is irreplaceable. If anybody needs to sit out to make room for Saquib and Reza, then it should be Rajin. I would also like to see Mehrab jnr getting som opportunity. I think he is just as good as reza and saquib. If ashraful keeps on playing like a loser... then he should be the one sitting it out.

al Furqaan
August 13, 2006, 07:05 PM
In U-19 World Cup, our top order was very fragile. So don't have too much faith on them.

they still won games...and remember they are exceedinly young and talented.

of course, we have no shortage on that. but they have something which ash and aftab don't at the moment: maturity beyond their years.

they played responsibly so far in the 3-4 games they've played. scoring at a high SR without playing dangerous slog shots

al Furqaan
August 13, 2006, 07:06 PM
Bashar is simply our best and most consistent batsmen.

not in one dayers, hes not.

HawkEye000
August 13, 2006, 07:11 PM
In U-19 World Cup, our top order was very fragile. So don't have too much faith on them.

Mehrab and Mushfiqur seems to have a lot of responsibility. The way Saqib batted in his first 3 ODis, I have no doublt we could always have faith in this guy.

Atleast these guys are lot more responsible than Ash and Aftab.

sadi
August 13, 2006, 10:55 PM
Here are couple of reasons why bashar can be preferred ahead of Rajin

- Better strikerate
- More experienced
- We don't have to risk playing under a captain who has no idea what he is doing, atleast bashar is experienced in this field

If I have to choose between Rajin and Bashar, I would pick Bashar any day of the week. Bashar has seemed to find his form in odis and its not a good idea at all to drop him. So here will be my first six for now:

SN
Aftab
Sakib
Ashraful
Bashar
Forhad

HereWeGo
August 13, 2006, 10:57 PM
Include mushfique in place of pilot(plssss). and include bashar for rajin. Problem solved and we have a very good batting line up. As for openers SN and AA.

Tendulkar_Mcgrath
August 13, 2006, 11:53 PM
i think forhad and saqib should be there all time....specially forhad.. i wont want him dropped out of team even in nightmare.........aftab as an opener is very bad thinking....to my concern...bashar/rajin is the question....but bashar knows a lil bit captancy...i think...rajin should stand as in a poistion where slow track is there....but we have to think about mushfiq! we r not making a substitude keeper...huh...if pilot broke his thumbs suddenly before a vital match like agiast NZ or India....then what we will do?

rafiq
August 14, 2006, 12:12 AM
Once again, learned BC board member's enthusiasm at adopting the latest U-19 graduate as the savior of Bangladeshi cricket, at the expense of all those who have come before them, continues to amaze me. Rajin, Bashar, mashud, ashraful, they are all replaceable the minute a new player shows some composure. Taking nothing away from Saquib and Farhad, a couple of innings against the likes of Zimbabwe and Kenya doesn't warrant dropping your best batsman and captain to make room!

There is also an eagerness to judge players simply on scorecards and statistics, and often without the benefit of actually seeing them play. How come no one is calling for Rafique to be dropped? He has scored a grand total of zero runs against Kenya, and i can't remember the last tiime he took a wicket! Now if we simply picked the team based on series avergaes, Rafique would be gone for the 3rd ODI. And by the reasoning shown in this thread, he should be dropped for the WC as well.

PoorFan
August 14, 2006, 01:19 AM
Nothing will change until Aftab and Ash even Nafees settle down and play consistent! We can replace Javed with Rajin or Rajin with Bashar or Bashar with Saqib / Reza, but NONE of these combination means anything! since rest of 50% of our top order remain inconsistent ( Aftab, Ash, Nafees even Rajin ). Pushing up Aftab or Ash to open is not a solution, and obviously they will fail, since Ash had been tried couple of time but failed in SAME consistency ( as far I know ). Most importantly they are not specialist openers, I doubt whether they opened even in local match anytime. So ONLY Bashar is not the problem, the problem is Aftab, Ash, Rajin too ( some time Nafees also, but I still can live with him ), and their consistency in my opinion.

On the other hand our tail lost their famous batting resistance significantly now a days, especially Mashud, Rafique, Mashree ( I know about yesterday ). There was a time when our tail saved us ( from humiliation ) so many times, but recently it's very hard to count on them too.

Having said that, I actually don't see any easy solution to our problem, except giving the chance to young here and there and wait until WC. We cant just replace Bashar, Aftab, Ash, Mashud, Rafique with young yet, because they are too young ( physically and mentally ) and not yet tested enough before Champions Cup and WC. So by that time those young should get some chance to play and get them ready. I am sure we will hit the BOTTOM ( pathetic display ) in WC again, and will be easy to make a drastic change in the team, dropping all of them ( Bashar, Aftab, Ash, Rajin, Mashud, Rafique ) who doesn't perform up to the level. Finally bring ex U-19 coach in the team and make the mission complete.

sunny747
August 14, 2006, 01:40 AM
droppin basher..thats ridiculous.....if it is soo important to drop, then drop pilot and rajin.
we should learn from the mashrafee incident..how could he bat so well under this pressure? coz he has the experience under his belt. ........we need experience player in highest level. SAkib and farhad reza well, did they play against any big country yet? how come u guys come to soo quick solution about them ? Let them play for a while. Remember Mark Talor of Australia, he was captaining his team for about year without scoring a single fifty.

Rabz
August 14, 2006, 02:00 AM
Dropping Bashar... that idea should not be even dreamt of, not even in nightmares.
Its simply out of this world ridiculous.

Sorry mate, Al-Furqaan, but id hv to say im dissapointed that u came up with such idea.

if it was your way.. u prefer to basically send an u-25 team to the world cup.
ONLY 2 players, Pilot and Rafiq ages over 30 and has played a significant number of games, ie, over 100 odi, are there to represent in the most anticipated, scrutinized, jaw dropping, nail biting tournament out there for cricket??

U need experience mate, experience.
Bashar's captaincy might not hv been anything specticular, but his presence within the team is still highly significant. All the youngsters respect him and look up to him, he has worked really hard over the last few years to create some degree of harmony and unity within the team and top of that, our BEST batsmen.

he has, more often than not, been a consistent batsmen in either forms of the game. 2 captains for 2 version of the game might work for Australia, but i dont think that would work for a battler team like Bangladesh.

I know how much i hv missed Bashar over the last few games. Had he been there, im saying, we MIGHT,yes we MIGHT have won the series against Zims.

and not only Bashar needs to come back in the team ASAP, he really really needs to bat at NO 3 for good. he is the only around whom our other "talented" batsmen could built an innings.

Thank you.

sunny747
August 14, 2006, 02:12 AM
I'm completely with Sydney.....just consider this Al-Furqaan.....in BC website, we tend to give more value to those posters who has the highest posts or joining date. Which shows they are thinking about cricket for long time and has better understanding about the games than others. They are die-hard followers of the game who comes and posts here often.
But a new poster may have the better idea's but it is always the old posters who gets the more replies..............so u see.. experience is really something. Ppl really obeys you when u are senior. SAkib and farhad sort of crickets won't comply properly with the captains who are of their age. But they would definitely listen to that person who is senior to them and playing under such an idol who probably they brought up thinking to be like him.

Tokyobreeze
August 14, 2006, 03:54 AM
Though the talking is going on mostly about Bahsar, I personally think we gotta think about a possible replacement (if not permanent) of Ash..We all have seen Ash hibernates for long long time and if world cup falls within that hibernation stage we are in trouble..My personal thought is to give Ash a rest for a while and try Mehrab Jr.

thebest
August 14, 2006, 04:46 AM
I could not agree with idea of dropping basher from ODI. Not because I am Basher fan but because only recently Basher start to act how to play in middle overs of ODI. He is in perfect position to play at no 5. To accomodate him the easier solution would be take out one of the opener (obviously Rajin) and give tht place to Aftab. But may be the drastic idea would be drop Ash (for foreseeable future) play Sakib there and bring Mehrab in Rajin's place. I am actually more impress with Mehrab than Sakib and Farhad when all three play together. that boy is a thinking cricketer what I have understood from his approach of the game in U19 and A team

Miraz
August 14, 2006, 05:07 AM
First of all, I am quite surprised to see the idea of keeping Bashar out of ODI team when he is performing much better in ODI in recent years and is the only person whi can lead the team right at the moment. al Furqaan, you are keeping Pilot in the squad after such a dismal performance in recent series. He is simpy crap with Captaincy and equally pathetic with batting.

Now, first of all why we need to keep playing Bashar

As a batsman - He has scored 1708 runs in ODI with career average of 21.62 (SR - 60.09) and in in last 15 ODI, he averages 35.00 (SR - 72.45). Now he is batting with lot more maturity and has got excellent strike rate and you are asking him to axe?? Please explain.

As a fielder : I don't buy, he is old and getting worse in fielding. He is not as fast as Aftab or Rajin that's true, still he is one of the most reliable fielder in the BD side. In fact, he is the only reliable slip fielder we have. He has taken 16 catches in ODI, second highest as a non wicketkeeper. In last 10 matches he was involved in 3 run outs. IMO, enough service to retain his position.

As a Captain : He is defnitely the sole option of Bangladesh team. He is getting better as a captain in every matches. I am a stron critic of Bashar's captaincy, still he is better than Pilot by a long distance. He has started the winning habit for Bangladesh team and as a Captain he performed much better with bat. He averages 25.42 (SR - 67.5) as a captain, much higher than his career stats. He is leader who leads from fronts with performance. We need a person like him to be captain.

Last of all he is experienced and a proven performer, we need some experienced performer in the team.

Now, when he comes back who has to sit out?? I don't mind to exclude anyone from the top or middle order for Bashar. To be rational it should be Rajin, he is not fit for ODI.

Got your answer?

Shakalaka
August 14, 2006, 05:44 AM
Why is that we are not ready to drop ASH? he dispayed nothing for long long time. And we are thinking of dropping our most consistent batsman Bashar? Also, Rajin Saleh is the only batsman who showed some consistency atleast for some period. And we are thinking "if he is out of form"!! Give me a break! Only players that needs to sit out is ASH. Flat out. If he can proves himself back again, then good and dandy. Else too bad. But for God's sake, we dont have any experience batsman and captain like Basahat, Especially when the WC is only few months away.

Suicidal thought indeed!

Miraz
August 14, 2006, 06:12 AM
Why is that we are not ready to drop ASH? he dispayed nothing for long long time. And we are thinking of dropping our most consistent batsman Bashar? Also, Rajin Saleh is the only batsman who showed some consistency atleast for some period. And we are thinking "if he is out of form"!! Give me a break! Only players that needs to sit out is ASH. Flat out. If he can proves himself back again, then good and dandy. Else too bad. But for God's sake, we dont have any experience batsman and captain like Basahat, Especially when the WC is only few months away.

Suicidal thought indeed!

Dropping Ash to keep Rajin in place makes no sense. Look at the stat of Rajin and Asraful. Ashraful averages 26.58 whule Rajin 29.58 (his average is skewed by his century, without that he averages 21.5). Look at the strike rate Rajin's strike rate is 54.50 completely unacceptable in ODI, while Ashraful has got excellent Strike rate of 82.5. Now what makes you think Rajin is consistent?? In last 15 innings on 8 occasions he scored less than 10. He is equally inconsistent like Ashraful. But considering strike rate Ashraful is much better choice to win matches as their average is pretty same.

Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St S/R
Ashraful 15 319 67* 26.58 0 3 2 2/9 17.00 0 7 0 82.5
Rajin 15 414 108* 29.57 1 2 8 4/16 25.75 0 2 0 54.50

nasifkhan
August 14, 2006, 06:32 AM
Once again, learned BC board member's enthusiasm at adopting the latest U-19 graduate as the savior of Bangladeshi cricket, at the expense of all those who have come before them, continues to amaze me. Rajin, Bashar, mashud, ashraful, they are all replaceable the minute a new player shows some composure. Taking nothing away from Saquib and Farhad, a couple of innings against the likes of Zimbabwe and Kenya doesn't warrant dropping your best batsman and captain to make room!

There is also an eagerness to judge players simply on scorecards and statistics, and often without the benefit of actually seeing them play. How come no one is calling for Rafique to be dropped? He has scored a grand total of zero runs against Kenya, and i can't remember the last tiime he took a wicket! Now if we simply picked the team based on series avergaes, Rafique would be gone for the 3rd ODI. And by the reasoning shown in this thread, he should be dropped for the WC as well.

rafiq bhai..... well said.....ekdom shotti kotha bolsen...

thebest
August 14, 2006, 07:30 AM
...
There is also an eagerness to judge players simply on scorecards and statistics, and often without the benefit of actually seeing them play. How come no one is calling for Rafique to be dropped? He has scored a grand total of zero runs against Kenya, and i can't remember the last tiime he took a wicket! Now if we simply picked the team based on series avergaes, Rafique would be gone for the 3rd ODI. And by the reasoning shown in this thread, he should be dropped for the WC as well.

Players always judge by scorecard and statistics. If you look at players how he play Stan McCabe is much better player than Bradman. I m not saying McCabe is a bad player but surely not a Bradman. Aesthicly what I have read Bradman was not great but McCabe was. why to go that far? We have Alok and Basher to compare. If I want to see the game for pleasure on any given day I would choose Alok over Basher. But to deliver the match Alok is no go area.

Regarding composure and other of u19. Did you saw the game yesterday? At any time Farhad or Saqib did look timid and uncomposed? They just play their natural game. And compare that with Masud. There was no glimpse that he has played he have played over 100 ODI. I was feeling that the fear of lose is overwhelemed him. The better example may be the 2nd one dayer when Farhad and Pilot played together. So when we go for U19, we go looking at this kids attitude and approach to the game. They at this tender age, has more understanding of the game then most of our senior and experienced players. With the exception of Basher (For the last 2yrs) and Rafiq, none of the senior player have applied any experience in their game.

I do not agree with the logic of the thread opener. But his logic is make more sensel than your logic of keeping player just for experience and age sake. In the same logic I would ask why not bring back Atahar and Sujon? Atahar obviously the best player missed out the opportunity of playing test and Sujon a proven match winner with his dibly dobly and grit.

Tigers_eye
August 14, 2006, 09:55 AM
Bashar stays for one reason only which is the most important reason by far.
Captaincy. No viable alternative yet.

Facing Odoyo and likes we repeatedly succumb to 5 down when just the fielding restriction is over. Pathetic. Did we not see how Jaya bat on the 3rd ODI (2006) openning spell? Dot ball after dot ball on Mash and rasel's openning spell (runrate was 2 or below) and yet they score 300+ and took the game out of our hands when the wicket dried up cause we couldn't break the partnership. That is real experience. Our boys have zero of that. They want to win the game by one ball. 4 or 6 that's it. Ash knows he can hit any ball for six (even Gilchrist would dare to think like that). So does Aftab and Shariar Nafees. Too much of confidence and not enough of real knowledge of the game shows us how immature we are. The chase for 184 should have been over with only 1 or 2 wickets down. The run rate was no factor. All they (top order) had to do is stick around. By the 30 over the Kenyans would give up then. Rajin is too slow. He needs to be in the test team only. For Forhad and Sakib this is not the big leagues yet. This is still the associate level or lower (I think scotts and dutch are far better than Kenya). i still think they are bringing these kids too early. Send them to australia or England to play with 2nd division teams and gain experience.

kalpurush
August 14, 2006, 10:17 AM
The soultion is simple. Rajin sits and Bashar plays. Either Aftab or Ash opens with SN.

A good idea...

kalpurush
August 14, 2006, 10:20 AM
Why is that we are not ready to drop ASH? he dispayed nothing for long long time. And we are thinking of dropping our most consistent batsman Bashar? Also, Rajin Saleh is the only batsman who showed some consistency atleast for some period. And we are thinking "if he is out of form"!! Give me a break! Only players that needs to sit out is ASH. Flat out. If he can proves himself back again, then good and dandy. Else too bad. But for God's sake, we dont have any experience batsman and captain like Basahat, Especially when the WC is only few months away.

Suicidal thought indeed!

Droping Rajin for ODI isn't a better idea?

al Furqaan
August 14, 2006, 11:34 AM
ok...so most of you are dead against the idea of dropping bashar.

in that case, we might as well drop rajin.

what i am trying to say here, is that like it or not, forhad and saqib are here to stay.

they have performed well, and the guys they replaced (alok, javed, tushar) are nowhere near they ability and skill.

yes, it is bad to throw young guys in at the deep end...but for us its a must, because we are even more against JO, alok, and tushar being in the side.

but i'll admit the idea of dropping bashar is pretty ridiculous but only because he has performed the last 1.5 years.

it was just a suggestion...i didn't entertain the the idea 100%...wanted to get some feedback. my thinking was perhaps a slight bit clouded :)

Tokyobreeze
August 14, 2006, 12:35 PM
Bashar stays for one reason only which is the most important reason by far.
Captaincy. No viable alternative yet.


Well..talking about Bashar's replacement, the term Captaincy is coming commonly.Now, dropping the thought of replacing Bashar for a while, can we think who is going to be our next captain?Are we taking any initiative for preparing someone for the task??Even if Bashar stays for a while, he is not going to be there always!Our selectors are not even making a vice-captain these days!I am more concerned about the issue of someone replacing Bashar then preparing someone to replace him as Captain when the time comes.

TheWatcher
August 14, 2006, 12:40 PM
I am a big fan of our U/19 boys (I mean the boys who used to play for the U/19 team few months back), but the idea of replacing Bashar with any of them (even in the ODI team) is simply ridiculous.

A reminder Al Furqaan- Rajin, Tushar, Alok, all had very promising starts in their international careers and everybody was pretty much ready to take each one of them as our saviour after their first few games (against lot tougher oppositions than current Zimbos or Kenyans). Unfortunately, none of them has yet cemented a place in the national team.

Tigers_eye
August 14, 2006, 01:15 PM
Well..talking about Bashar's replacement, the term Captaincy is coming commonly.Now, dropping the thought of replacing Bashar for a while, can we think who is going to be our next captain?Are we taking any initiative for preparing someone for the task??Even if Bashar stays for a while, he is not going to be there always!Our selectors are not even making a vice-captain these days!I am more concerned about the issue of someone replacing Bashar then preparing someone to replace him as Captain when the time comes.
Captaincy is someone who should want it. You can't forcefully impose on a player. Otherwise he will not enjoy it.

After the WC like all the teams we will have a overhaul also. Then may be we will see SN, Tushar (I am hoping he has matured now) to take the reign. Rafiq, KM should retire from ODI, so should Bashar. But they need to be in test squad for sure. Our management must think of 2 different lineups for ODI and Tests. ODI should start to make plans for 2011 and build a team accordingly.

al Furqaan
August 14, 2006, 01:39 PM
Captaincy is someone who should want it. You can't forcefully impose on a player. Otherwise he will not enjoy it.

After the WC like all the teams we will have a overhaul also. Then may be we will see SN, Tushar (I am hoping he has matured now) to take the reign. Rafiq, KM should retire from ODI, so should Bashar. But they need to be in test squad for sure. Our management must think of 2 different lineups for ODI and Tests. ODI should start to make plans for 2011 and build a team accordingly.

well said...rafiq should most defintely retire from ODIs...hopefully that will increase his test life (where we absolutely need him). also that opens the door for us to play 3 pacers almost every game. players like rasel and rajib need matches to pick up wickets. if you just play them once or twice in a series, they won't do anything.

razzak and saqib can handle the full time spin duties of 20 overs. if out of form, we have rana and enam.

SS
August 14, 2006, 03:44 PM
Facing Odoyo and likes we repeatedly succumb to 5 down when just the fielding restriction is over. Pathetic. Did we not see how Jaya bat on the 3rd ODI (2006) openning spell? Dot ball after dot ball on Mash and rasel's openning spell (runrate was 2 or below) and yet they score 300+ and took the game out of our hands when the wicket dried up cause we couldn't break the partnership. That is real experience. Our boys have zero of that. They want to win the game by one ball. 4 or 6 that's it. Ash knows he can hit any ball for six (even Gilchrist would dare to think like that). So does Aftab and Shariar Nafees. Too much of confidence and not enough of real knowledge of the game shows us how immature we are. The chase for 184 should have been over with only 1 or 2 wickets down. The run rate was no factor. All they (top order) had to do is stick around. By the 30 over the Kenyans would give up then. Rajin is too slow. He needs to be in the test team only. For Forhad and Sakib this is not the big leagues yet. This is still the associate level or lower (I think scotts and dutch are far better than Kenya). i still think they are bringing these kids too early. Send them to australia or England to play with 2nd division teams and gain experience.

I agree with both Mr. Rafique and Cats Eye about few things.
Though he said scorecard and stat don't tell us everything about a game and player.
But nowadays, so much cricket going on that those factors matter too. on the other hand, with experience our captain or Rafique can guide them. But, do you think that their mind set will match with the youngsters? No doubt, it worked day before yesterday with Mashrafee, the one with more experience, telling Raz to hang on there. But can Rafique, with his bully attitude do it like that. What about Bashar's timid nature, can he be really aggresive in a good way instead of playing pull or hook or even just taking two slips for Russel. There is few problems among seniors that is the senority of the seniors. Bashar might give that up for team, but what about Rafique or Pilot. They won't listen to seniors or even a sensible junior whose cricketing knowledge and mindset are different. What he did last ODI, we all saw?

CatsEye mentioned a good thing that I liked. Why rushing U-19 players so early. I know it's experiment but let me tell you guys they will be like Ash or Aftab if not taken care of properly. For that they need to be sent to professional leagues in Aus or Eng. Because professionalism of cricket is practised properly in those countries.
(As long as, he return lol). I believe after this series BCB should take immediate attempt to send Saqib, forhad, Mehrab and other U-19 to different leagues. I don't know if they will take them but they gota do the marketing and negotiating part.
Creating an impressive profile and gota go out there. Our selecters even don't know when Bashar left, how stupid a management and board can be not knowing a captain of a team leaving for injury??

Our 50%-60% of the team is consiste of mid experienced players like Ash,Aftab, SN, Mash, Rusel, Rajib. And the contribution of these 60%, can change the whole game.
Are they doing their job right. I know their could be ups and downs. Not all day are same. But they need to perform no matter what, if not individually, then as teams. If not total effort, then individually. They got the talent, but no mentality. They are so fragile in mind, I don't blame them I am also like them. But it could be change, and they are young enough to change that. Ash, Aftab knows how to play but they don't have brains. Mash got so nervous and it haunted him down. Rajib with short pitched bounces, didn't know what to do last ODI he played. Russel won't be able to utilize his skills if the pitch is dead and offers no swing. SN will go after all balls going away from him to hit over the top without good footwork.

If we can't fix these majority of our mid experienced players, we won't be able to do any significant progress in few months ahead of WC. We need to CHANGE THE WAY THEY THINK. The old ones are there to hold the anchor and give support, new ones might show encouraging promises, but the middle ones are the main nuclues of the team. And they need to start thinking and get their acts together to make our team, a dream team.

Tigers_eye
August 14, 2006, 04:00 PM
That's why at this stage (big leagues) cricket is more of a mental game than a physical game. And we are not there yet. I don't want the recent U-19 gradutes have a fragile mental condition once they face Pieterson, Dhoni, Jones, Nitni or Murali. Sorry off topic but couldn't help it.