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View Full Version : So far, in this year, Khaled Mashud is 2nd best wicket-keeper in ODIs in terms of dismissals


Mohiul
August 15, 2006, 05:03 PM
Let's give our Pilot a big hand for his achievment so far in this year. The following is statistics from cricinfo:

2006 Calendar Year ODI Most Fielding Dismissals


Based on all matches up to and including
ODI # 2404: Kenya v Bangladesh at Nairobi (Gym), 3rd ODI, 15/08/2006


Name Mat Runs Ave W Ave Ct St Dis Team
KC Sangakkara (http://uk.cricinfo.com/srilanka/content/player/50710.html) 26 1020 44.34 - - 22 9 31 SL
Khaled Mashud (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/55954.html) 18 241 26.77 - - 19 7 26 BDESH
BRM Taylor (http://uk.cricinfo.com/zimbabwe/content/player/55814.html) 18 641 45.78 - - 19 6 25 ZIM
AC Gilchrist (http://uk.cricinfo.com/australia/content/player/5390.html) 17 680 42.50 - - 20 3 23 AUS
MS Dhoni (http://uk.cricinfo.com/india/content/player/28081.html) 17 553 55.30 - - 21 1 22 IND
MV Boucher (http://uk.cricinfo.com/southafrica/content/player/44111.html) 13 380 42.22 - - 15 1 16 RSA
KO Otieno (http://uk.cricinfo.com/kenya/content/player/24714.html) 13 238 19.83 - - 14 - 14 KENYA






</PRE>

Sovik
August 15, 2006, 06:18 PM
he showed good performance behind the stump, he is still the best wicket keeper of bd but it seems he almost forgotten how to bat

fjahan
August 15, 2006, 06:41 PM
I hope people who say pilot should make way for rahim realise how important pilot is to BD at this very time. In my opinion he is the second best in sub-continent behind sangakara.

SMHasan
August 15, 2006, 06:55 PM
he showed good performance behind the stump, he is still the best wicket keeper of bd but it seems he almost forgotten how to bat

Exactly

Spitfire_x86
August 15, 2006, 07:22 PM
I hope people who say pilot should make way for rahim realise how important pilot is to BD at this very time. In my opinion he is the second best in sub-continent behind sangakara.
If you look at the 3rd name in the list, then you will understand why many of us want to see Mushfiq Rahim instead of Pilot in the ODIs.

Brendan Taylor has just one less dismissal than Pilot in equal number of ODIs. He is probably not a specialist keeper, and even if he is, he was never Zimbabwe's first choice wicketkeeper in the days of Andy Flower/Taibu. Yet he is doing the job fairly well.

In ODIs, batting capability is equally important for a keeper (if not more). Except Otieno, all of these keepers are far better batsman than Pilot. And when Pilot started playing for the national team, he had less international exposure (at any level) compared to Mushfiq Rahim.

oporajeyo_bangla
August 15, 2006, 10:09 PM
If you look at the 3rd name in the list, then you will understand why many of us want to see Mushfiq Rahim instead of Pilot in the ODIs.

Brendan Taylor has just one less dismissal than Pilot in equal number of ODIs. He is probably not a specialist keeper, and even if he is, he was never Zimbabwe's first choice wicketkeeper in the days of Andy Flower/Taibu. Yet he is doing the job fairly well.



Good point!

I wonder if the BD think tank will consider playing Mushfiq in the Champion's Trophy or even the World Cup. It seems highly unlikely.

jabbar
August 15, 2006, 10:25 PM
if only his batting was better...

Tigers_eye
August 16, 2006, 04:31 PM
SL has recently stoped letting Sangakkara keep the wicket. He is strickly concentrating on batting. They have used http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/keeper.gifHAPW Jayawardene (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/srilanka/content/current/player/49236.html), as the wicket keeper against SA (test). He had 18 test victims in 7 matches. His batting average is only 16.2. How come they (SL) can keep a guy like him? I have not seen the ODI lineup. But it looks like he (Sangakkara) will not be keeping the ODIs also. In that case, it will be matter of time When KM and BT both cross Sangakkara on ODI victims sometime this year.

I'd like to see where Akmal, and NZ and WI keepers stand.

Just by looking at the stats we all can see KM is no way near the other WK on Batting (Otieno- I don't consider him). The question is who in BD team is? Compare openers with other openers, down by down, mano to mano, everyone will be way below the standard. If you guys want to kick him out for batting (secondary job), then BD don't need to send any team to play international cricket. Cause none in the BD lineup match with others to their similar position players. Their averages will certainly be off by more than 15. If you are ready to do that then I have nothing to say.

Anyways Congrates to Pilot. The stats of most losing captain in ODI history will no longer haunt him.

Miraz
August 16, 2006, 04:49 PM
If you look at the 3rd name in the list, then you will understand why many of us want to see Mushfiq Rahim instead of Pilot in the ODIs.

Brendan Taylor has just one less dismissal than Pilot in equal number of ODIs. He is probably not a specialist keeper, and even if he is, he was never Zimbabwe's first choice wicketkeeper in the days of Andy Flower/Taibu. Yet he is doing the job fairly well.

In ODIs, batting capability is equally important for a keeper (if not more). Except Otieno, all of these keepers are far better batsman than Pilot. And when Pilot started playing for the national team, he had less international exposure (at any level) compared to Mushfiq Rahim.

That's what we all need to understand, the reality without emotion.

Miraz
August 16, 2006, 04:54 PM
SL has recently stoped letting Sangakkara keep the wicket. He is strickly concentrating on batting. They have used http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/keeper.gifHAPW Jayawardene (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/srilanka/content/current/player/49236.html), as the wicket keeper against SA (test). He had 18 test victims in 7 matches. His batting average is only 16.2. How come they (SL) can keep a guy like him? I have not seen the ODI lineup. But it looks like he (Sangakkara) will not be keeping the ODIs also. In that case, it will be matter of time When KM and BT both cross Sangakkara on ODI victims sometime this year.



Dear, he has just started his career, its too early to compare his betting record with Piot. I am sure he will have much better average in both forms of the game after playing 41 tests and 120 ODI's (so, far Pilot has played).

Fazal
August 16, 2006, 05:09 PM
SL has recently stoped letting Sangakkara keep the wicket. He is strickly concentrating on batting. They have used http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/keeper.gifHAPW Jayawardene (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/srilanka/content/current/player/49236.html), as the wicket keeper against SA (test). He had 18 test victims in 7 matches.

Exactly! They are trying to figure out who is their standby wicket keeper and grooming him with some opportunity to play. Thats what some of us are saying. Bangladesh should exactly do the same. Should explore viable alternatives for standby wicketkeeper and give him a chance once in a while against teams like Zim and Kenya not teamls like Aus or England. But the only problem is unlike Sangakkara, Pilot is no longer a good batsman, and therefore he should take a rest when substitute wicketkeeper is playing.

fjahan
August 16, 2006, 08:10 PM
If you look at the 3rd name in the list, then you will understand why many of us want to see Mushfiq Rahim instead of Pilot in the ODIs.

Brendan Taylor has just one less dismissal than Pilot in equal number of ODIs. He is probably not a specialist keeper, and even if he is, he was never Zimbabwe's first choice wicketkeeper in the days of Andy Flower/Taibu. Yet he is doing the job fairly well.

In ODIs, batting capability is equally important for a keeper (if not more). Except Otieno, all of these keepers are far better batsman than Pilot. And when Pilot started playing for the national team, he had less international exposure (at any level) compared to Mushfiq Rahim. Do you genuingly believe that rahim can do a better job than pilot AT THIS VERY MOMENT? all of us know that rahim is a bright prospect for BD, but thats all in the near future, not now. The problem with BD fans is that we want changes too soon knowing when there is no need. u gotta understand that pilot has experiance of different conditions and able to motivate this young BD team, mushfiq hasn;t got that ability. keeping wise, pilot is by far a better keeper without a doubt. As for batting, mushfiq is avereging 20-30 in domestic leauge and pilot has a test hundred with 7 ODI fifties. THIS is not the rite time to bring in musfiq, he is a product of the future, not now.

bengaltiger
August 16, 2006, 09:26 PM
keeping pilot for his experience is a different argument. although we all love pilot, it is a reality that pilot lacks batting talent, natural stroke playing ability, etc.-- he probably couldn't improve his batting even through a lot of practise.

Rabz
August 17, 2006, 02:53 AM
even though Pilot's keeping is as reliable as ever, i think his age is also catching up with him in regards to batting.
but im still in favour of keeping Pilot in the team as the WK, at least till the next WC.

cricket_dorshok
August 17, 2006, 05:18 AM
we all love pilot

Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cricket_dorshok
August 17, 2006, 05:22 AM
Just by looking at the stats we all can see KM is no way near the other WK on Batting (Otieno- I don't consider him). The question is who in BD team is? Compare openers with other openers, down by down, mano to mano, everyone will be way below the standard. If you guys want to kick him out for batting (secondary job), then BD don't need to send any team to play international cricket. Cause none in the BD lineup match with others to their similar position players. Their averages will certainly be off by more than 15. If you are ready to do that then I have nothing to say.

The same argument I put in another thread. :up:

cricket_dorshok
August 17, 2006, 05:24 AM
even though Pilot's keeping is as reliable as ever, i think his age is also catching up with him in regards to batting.
but im still in favour of keeping Pilot in the team as the WK, at least till the next WC.

you told my words!!!!!!

thebest
August 17, 2006, 05:24 AM
SL has recently stoped letting Sangakkara keep the wicket. He is strickly concentrating on batting. They have used http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/keeper.gifHAPW Jayawardene (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/srilanka/content/current/player/49236.html), as the wicket keeper against SA (test). He had 18 test victims in 7 matches. His batting average is only 16.2. How come they (SL) can keep a guy like him? I have not seen the ODI lineup. But it looks like he (Sangakkara) will not be keeping the ODIs also. In that case, it will be matter of time When KM and BT both cross Sangakkara on ODI victims sometime this year.

I'd like to see where Akmal, and NZ and WI keepers stand.

Just by looking at the stats we all can see KM is no way near the other WK on Batting (Otieno- I don't consider him). The question is who in BD team is? Compare openers with other openers, down by down, mano to mano, everyone will be way below the standard. If you guys want to kick him out for batting (secondary job), then BD don't need to send any team to play international cricket. Cause none in the BD lineup match with others to their similar position players. Their averages will certainly be off by more than 15. If you are ready to do that then I have nothing to say.

Anyways Congrates to Pilot. The stats of most losing captain in ODI history will no longer haunt him.

The new SL w/k actually played a vital role in winning the second test. He was the second highest scorer in both the match. As spitty already mention we r not comparing with Gili. Just look at Taylor. Our players are comparable with Zimbos. The other thing which I would emphasis, we miss the opportunity to test how good Mushy is. Even a fierciest Pilot critic, I do not want to experiment with Musy in Champions trophy. So next chance for Mushy may be the home series. If that is not, then we would throw Musy againest stronger opposition when Pilot retire. I think none of the board member want this.
Another thing, Pak or england can afford their w/k make no contribution in batting. Because their batsmen would deliver 9 out of 10 times. But we can not, because 9 out of 10 our batsmen would suck. so we need a batsman - w/k not a w/k - batsman.

battye
August 17, 2006, 05:26 AM
Good to see both the Bangladeshi and Zimbabwean wicket keepers ranking highly.

Thunder
August 17, 2006, 06:03 AM
he showed good performance behind the stump, he is still the best wicket keeper of bd but it seems he almost forgotten how to bat

Its no wonder that his wicket keeping is world class but his batting is just opposite to his wicket keeping. I know we cant have a Gilchrist in our team but BD officials should take some steps to teach him how to bat. Give him some tips for how to bat, how to rotate the strikes even when you are in pressure. I know if he practices more and more his batting must be improved and thats possible only if he is willing to do so..:D

The idea is this.. Mashrafe and Razzaq will bowl him 10 overs each in Mirpur or Fatuallah stadium with 15 fielders. In every 20 overs his target will be to score around 85+. If he can't score BD official will cut down a quater of his ODI match fee. But if he scores, he will get double the amount of that!

Rabz
August 17, 2006, 06:20 AM
The idea is this.. Mashrafe and Razzaq will bowl him 10 overs each in Mirpur or Fatuallah stadium with 15 fielders. In every 20 overs his target will be to score around 85+. If he can't score BD official will cut down a quater of his ODI match fee. But if he scores, he will get double the amount of that!

any more of this weird suggestions???
plz keep them coming

Tigers_eye
August 17, 2006, 09:00 AM
.....Another thing, Pak or england can afford their w/k make no contribution in batting. Because their batsmen would deliver 9 out of 10 times. But we can not, because 9 out of 10 our batsmen would suck. so we need a batsman - w/k not a w/k - batsman.
So Pilot or the Wicket Keeper is our savior of our horrendous batting performance? Why have six guys infront of him then? No wonder we are 10th out 10 positions. When a team must rely on the #7 batsman for batting what more do you expect? I fail to understand why we put more blame on a #7 batsman than the other 6 infront of him when no one is contributing significantly.

What is the ideal situation? Ok, lets go with what all of you are saying. Mushy replaces KM parmanently in ODIs. Guess a batting average for him. Our best batsman is SN averaging 35+. Say Mushy is equal to him (lol) so he is averaging 35 (wishful thinking where Ash, Bashar and Aftab averages 20+). Where would that take us? 10-12 runs more what KM was contributing (pure speculation here), no garantee. How much we would sacrifice on the fielding? What is the net gain? Would that allow us to win against the big teams? We would still face (if we are lucky) 5/70 or 5/90. That does not solve the batting problems BD have. The only way to solve the problem is somehow to get the top order perform somewhat decent consistantly.

Comparing a 17 year old to a 34 year old. Simply unbelievable. Compare yourself with someone half of your age. Does that boy have anyway near of your experience?

As for testing Mushy, home series should be fine. Hopefully Bashar will be there and the series will be one sided.

Sovik
August 17, 2006, 09:15 AM
he needs to work on his batting and ash, aftab and others need to do so. we have only few weeks before champions trophy and we don't want to thrashed by west indies and sri lanka

Miraz
August 17, 2006, 09:35 AM
Let's give our Pilot a big hand for his achievment so far in this year. The following is statistics from cricinfo:

2006 Calendar Year ODI Most Fielding Dismissals


Based on all matches up to and including
ODI # 2404: Kenya v Bangladesh at Nairobi (Gym), 3rd ODI, 15/08/2006


Name Mat Runs Ave W Ave Ct St Dis Team
KC Sangakkara (http://uk.cricinfo.com/srilanka/content/player/50710.html) 26 1020 44.34 - - 22 9 31 SL
Khaled Mashud (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/55954.html) 18 241 26.77 - - 19 7 26 BDESH
BRM Taylor (http://uk.cricinfo.com/zimbabwe/content/player/55814.html) 18 641 45.78 - - 19 6 25 ZIM
AC Gilchrist (http://uk.cricinfo.com/australia/content/player/5390.html) 17 680 42.50 - - 20 3 23 AUS
MS Dhoni (http://uk.cricinfo.com/india/content/player/28081.html) 17 553 55.30 - - 21 1 22 IND
MV Boucher (http://uk.cricinfo.com/southafrica/content/player/44111.html) 13 380 42.22 - - 15 1 16 RSA
KO Otieno (http://uk.cricinfo.com/kenya/content/player/24714.html) 13 238 19.83 - - 14 - 14 KENYA








</PRE>
Don't look at only one side of the coin, look at the other side too.

In last 10 matches Pilot averages 19.1 (You know the S/R - 48.25), Sangakkara averages 35.5, Gilly 41.1, Dhoni 39.6 and even Brendan Taylor 60.25. I think you all know their strike rate will be in the range of 75-90.

If BRM Taylor is just behind Pilot with the batting average of 60.25, I think it's enough to understand the scenario. He is not even considered as a specialist wicketkeeper. So, don't be complacent with Pillot's performance. I have seen all the matches he played in 2006, nothing really spectacular except one or two.

Tigers_eye
August 17, 2006, 10:30 AM
...In last 10 matches Pilot averages 19.1 (You know the S/R - 48.25),...
Where are you getting your stats from?

Last 10 matches he bat:
10. 2nd ODI Ken: 13
9. 4th ODI ZIm: 20
8. 3rd ODI Zim: 11
7. 2nd ODI Zim: 48*
6. 1st ODI Zim: 14*
5. 3rd ODI Aus: 11
4. 2nd ODI Aus: 37
3.1st ODI Aus: 27
2. 3rd ODI SL: 19*
1. 2nd ODISL: 2*
Total: 202. 4 notouts averaging: 33.6. Even with his forgotten batting skills (that some of you are suggesting) there is no single digit scores. Shall we look in to how many single digit scores Ash, Aftab, SN, Rajin, Bashar, Alok, JO had in the last 10 innings they played?

Miraz
August 17, 2006, 10:59 AM
Where are you getting your stats from?

?

From statsguru of cricinfo, probably they are not up to date.

Doesn't matter really because those 33.6 average is skewed by his 4 not outs and you will find his strike rate is well within 40-50. Completely unacceptable by any standard.

sadi
August 17, 2006, 11:06 AM
What is the ideal situation? Ok, lets go with what all of you are saying. Mushy replaces KM parmanently in ODIs. Guess a batting average for him. Our best batsman is SN averaging 35+. Say Mushy is equal to him (lol) so he is averaging 35 (wishful thinking where Ash, Bashar and Aftab averages 20+). Where would that take us? 10-12 runs more what KM was contributing (pure speculation here), no garantee. How much we would sacrifice on the fielding? What is the net gain? Would that allow us to win against the big teams? We would still face (if we are lucky) 5/70 or 5/90. That does not solve the batting problems BD have. The only way to solve the problem is somehow to get the top order perform somewhat decent consistantly.



Great point. Well said Bagh bhai.

cricket_dorshok
August 17, 2006, 01:45 PM
In last 10 matches Pilot averages 19.1 (You know the S/R - 48.25), Sangakkara averages 35.5, Gilly 41.1, Dhoni 39.6 and even Brendan Taylor 60.25. I think you all know their strike rate will be in the range of 75-90.

it is better to compare Pilot's average with our top order, isn't it? coz our whole team is in around 20 average.

Fazal
August 17, 2006, 01:47 PM
it is better to compare Pilot's average with our top order, isn't it? coz our whole team is in around 20 average.

Oh... ok.... fair enough.... now lets compare Pilot's average with our top order:

Our top order sucks... so does Pilot's batting.

Now Happy?

cricket_dorshok
August 17, 2006, 01:48 PM
So Pilot or the Wicket Keeper is our savior of our horrendous batting performance? Why have six guys infront of him then? No wonder we are 10th out 10 positions. When a team must rely on the #7 batsman for batting what more do you expect? I fail to understand why we put more blame on a #7 batsman than the other 6 infront of him when no one is contributing significantly.

What is the ideal situation? Ok, lets go with what all of you are saying. Mushy replaces KM parmanently in ODIs. Guess a batting average for him. Our best batsman is SN averaging 35+. Say Mushy is equal to him (lol) so he is averaging 35 (wishful thinking where Ash, Bashar and Aftab averages 20+). Where would that take us? 10-12 runs more what KM was contributing (pure speculation here), no garantee. How much we would sacrifice on the fielding? What is the net gain? Would that allow us to win against the big teams? We would still face (if we are lucky) 5/70 or 5/90. That does not solve the batting problems BD have. The only way to solve the problem is somehow to get the top order perform somewhat decent consistantly.

Comparing a 17 year old to a 34 year old. Simply unbelievable. Compare yourself with someone half of your age. Does that boy have anyway near of your experience?

As for testing Mushy, home series should be fine. Hopefully Bashar will be there and the series will be one sided.

ditto :up:

cricket_dorshok
August 17, 2006, 01:54 PM
Oh... ok.... fair enough.... now lets compare Pilot's average with our top order:

Our top order sucks... so does Pilot's batting.

Now Happy?

No, I'll be happy after Mushfiq inclusion (subsequently Pilot's exclusion), coz after Mushfiq inclusion BD will be better than Australia despite coninuous sucking of top order!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fazal
August 17, 2006, 01:58 PM
No, I'll be happy after Mushfiq inclusion (subsequently Pilot's exclusion), coz after Mushfiq inclusion BD will be better than Australia despite coninuous sucking of top order!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

besides you, can you please tell me how many people are requesing Mushfiq inclusion (subsequently Pilot's exclusion) for good? For the record, please be specific with names and reference.

thebest
August 17, 2006, 09:36 PM
The new SL w/k actually played a vital role in winning the second test. He was the second highest scorer in both the match. As spitty already mention we r not comparing with Gili. Just look at Taylor. Our players are comparable with Zimbos. The other thing which I would emphasis, we miss the opportunity to test how good Mushy is. Even a fierciest Pilot critic, I do not want to experiment with Musy in Champions trophy. So next chance for Mushy may be the home series. If that is not, then we would throw Musy againest stronger opposition when Pilot retire. I think none of the board member want this.
Another thing, Pak or england can afford their w/k make no contribution in batting. Because their batsmen would deliver 9 out of 10 times. But we can not, because 9 out of 10 our batsmen would suck. so we need a batsman - w/k not a w/k - batsman.
Tiger_eye I am giving up. Please re-read the bolded one. I never once, compare Pilot or for that matter any bangladeshi player with the players of established nation.
And never once claim that Pilot or for that matter any other W/K would be the saviour of our absymal performance. But a specialist batsman working as W/K help better for fragile batting line up. I think u could remember Dravid as W/K because india was not finding an allrounder to strenghten its batting. So if India arguably with the best batting line up in the world go for a non-specialist w/k then why not us. Any way, we miss the boat, till the Zimbo's return in Dec.

PoorFan
August 17, 2006, 09:49 PM
This Mashud's 'poor batting' issue becoming annoying and ugly day by day. One moment people asking for 'giving chance' to Mushfique against team like Kenya and Zimbo, and the next moment talking 'ideology' of a 'batsman Wicket keeper' which doesn't exist or established yet in BD cricket or team. Sometime even clearly asking for Mashud's head based on 'pure wishful expectation'. This argument getting nasty and mixed up with multi dimensional fact.

Fact 1 : Our top order sucks
Fact 2 : Mushfique need couple of chance
Fact 3 : Mashud's batting getting worse

Fact 2 never means Mashud should be kicked out from team anyway, couple of rest here and there is all it's mean. Fact 3 also doesn't suggest kick out Mashud since there is no 'tested' alternative in the team yet. Fact 1 doesn't need any explanation and there is no way we can deny unless we are blind or biased.

If we think priority base, obviously fixing our top order problem ( opener, consistency ) comes first, like when you 'often have engine trouble' with your car, you must have to fix your 'engine' first. Top order of our team is the 'main engine', and most of the time we will 'get stuck' on highway unless we fix it, which is so obvious. One Mashud or Mushfique will do a little, as long as main problem remain to be fixed, following comment put it better than me I think.


<!--StartFragment -->What is the ideal situation? Ok, lets go with what all of you are saying. Mushy replaces KM parmanently in ODIs. Guess a batting average for him. Our best batsman is SN averaging 35+. Say Mushy is equal to him (lol) so he is averaging 35 (wishful thinking where Ash, Bashar and Aftab averages 20+). Where would that take us? 10-12 runs more what KM was contributing (pure speculation here), no garantee. How much we would sacrifice on the fielding? What is the net gain? Would that allow us to win against the big teams? We would still face (if we are lucky) 5/70 or 5/90. That does not solve the batting problems BD have. The only way to solve the problem is somehow to get the top order perform somewhat decent consistantly. Comparing a 17 year old to a 34 year old. Simply unbelievable. Compare yourself with someone half of your age. Does that boy have anyway near of your experience?


I tried to stay out of this 'never ending' argument, knowing it will lead us to an argument for the sake of argue, and it seems as I thought.

Spitfire_x86
August 18, 2006, 01:46 AM
If we think priority base, obviously fixing our top order problem ( opener, consistency ) comes first, like when you 'often have engine trouble' with your car, you must have to fix your 'engine' first. Top order of our team is the 'main engine', and most of the time we will 'get stuck' on highway unless we fix it, which is so obvious. One Mashud or Mushfique will do a little, as long as main problem remain to be fixed
You car may sometime go some distance if you have a car with defective engine, but good tires. But a car with good engine (or defective) and punctured tires will take you nowhere.

Tigers_eye said replacing Pilot with Mushfiq can result in only 10-15 runs difference. 10-15 runs may not sound a lot, but once in a while even our pathetic batting order works and 10-15 runs can make the difference between 250 and sub 250 score.

PoorFan
August 18, 2006, 03:25 AM
You car may sometime go some distance if you have a car with defective engine, but good tires. But a car with good engine (or defective) and punctured tires will take you nowhere.

Tigers_eye said replacing Pilot with Mushfiq can result in only 10-15 runs difference. 10-15 runs may not sound a lot, but once in a while even our pathetic batting order works and 10-15 runs can make the difference between 250 and sub 250 score.
<!--StartFragment -->
<!--StartFragment -->
Yeah, like a decade ago BD people where more than happy riding those cars on Dhaka street with 'defective engine', and as far I know since they were forced ( financially ) to ride those 'defective' cars, they didn't throw away those '<SMALL>punctured tires', rather was totally happy to ride on putting some 'potti' inside... And only it's OK in a country like BD, and you never go to ride 'highway' with a 'defective engine' in other country ( without fixing ), because you know the obvious outcome.</SMALL>
<SMALL></SMALL>
<SMALL>You may again call it as a 'good try' to a 'sake of argument', I dont mind.:)
</SMALL>
<SMALL>
Was there anything else in </SMALL>Tigers_eye's post <SMALL>other than '10 - 12 runs more from Mushfique</SMALL><SMALL>'? Was there anything like ...
</SMALL>
<SMALL>"... </SMALL>How much we would sacrifice on the fielding? What is the net gain? Would that allow us to win against the big teams? We would still face (if we are lucky) 5/70 or 5/90. That does not solve the batting problems BD have... "

I thought those means 'most of the time' we wont be able to score mere 200, let alone making difference in result against big team. This Africa series says all it loud on which one is our biggest problem, only if we care.

Spitfire_x86
August 18, 2006, 07:28 AM
Is Pilot's batting in any way related to our top order batting performance? If not, then the success/failure of our top order should not be a factor when we judge Pilot's place in ODI team.

We should try to improve our team in all possible departments in any possible way at the same time.

Fazal
August 18, 2006, 08:30 AM
This argument getting nasty and mixed up with multi dimensional fact.

Fact 1 : Our top order sucks
Fact 2 : Mushfique need couple of chance
Fact 3 : Mashud's batting getting worse



Good point PoorFan. Atleast a good starting point trying to un-bundle multi dimensional issues. Kudos to you....

But I guess in the later part of your argument, atleast in my mind, you fall into the same trap of again re-bundling up the issues as Splitfire_x86 pointed out in his last comment

"Is Pilot's batting in any way related to our top order batting performance? If not, then the success/failure of our top order should not be a factor when we judge Pilot's place in ODI team." -- Splitfire_x86

rudro
August 18, 2006, 08:53 AM
What was this thread about? Sorry, I forgot (:))

Tigers_eye
August 18, 2006, 09:43 AM
Is Pilot's batting in any way related to our top order batting performance? If not, then the success/failure of our top order should not be a factor when we judge Pilot's place in ODI team.

I answer your questions and you guys answer mine.

Yes, Pilot's batting in a very significant way related to the top order batting performance. You compare other WKs and bring in batting stats with Pilot's stats. Most of the WK are top order batsmen. Pilot is not. Comparing Apples and oranges. Those Wicket Keepers who plays at #7 in ODIs, on the average, what time (around what over - Batting) do they enter the game and what are their targets? For sure, it does not match what KM has to face day in day out or does it?.
1. Other WKs who bat at #7 has most of the time a solid score and 10 overs or less to go.
2. They are asked to make sure the run-rate excellerates on a faster pace than the others had done before him.
3. On the other hand, for BD's top order are already in the pavillion with half of the game still to be played. Even against the likes of Kenya. So because of the top orders faliure KM has to bat way early than any of the other #7 in the world. That changes everything. Thus yes top orders faliure significantly effects KM's batting performance.
4. Coming in to bat KM's goal becomes very different than his peers. He must hold on to his wicket other wise the team total can't cross 150. SR becomes lesser important because of the team. He does what is necessary for the team even to have a faint chance of success.

You still don't see the link.

We should try to improve our team in all possible departments in any possible way at the same time.
Really!! I think this statement is just for the sake of arguement. And you guys don't mean that. I don't see you or those who are calling KM's head going out of the limb to sack Ash, Aftab, Bashar. Even though that is our Major issue. top order failing 90% of the time. I don't see you guys calling for Mehrab Jr. or Nazmus Sadat to be included in the national team along with Mushy and replacing these useless, incompetents, hopeless top order.
You talk about performance. Sadat had an average of 61.75 against the Zim A while opening for BD-A in 5 matches that is not enough? How many series Mushy averaged 61. Heck did our top order manage to that ever? One century and a 90. Not enough? Performed 10 times better than the recalled TI. We all know what Mehrab Jr. can do. time and again he performed better than Mushy and rest of his teammates. I don't see you guys making a fuss about discarding or top order with these boys? They will perform better than Ash and I am certain we will have 5 eids a year from each of them.

Unless you think there is no problem in the top order or the problem of the top order is less valued than the KM strike rate.

My final question: You guys think the tail should bat as good as the top order? KM belongs to the tail not on the top order.

If you disagree with any of my points make sure put up a valid agruement.

Miraz
August 18, 2006, 10:05 AM
My final question: You guys think the tail should bat as good as the top order? KM belongs to the tail not on the top order.

If you disagree with any of my points make sure put up a valid agruement.

I almost gave up!! Wasn't posting anything on this issue for a while. Could not resist myself as you are justifying the reason behind KM's exclusion from our ODI team.

It's true very true that KM never belongs to top order and belongs to the tail. Please have a look at our current tailenders, evryone has strike rate above 75 and that is required from the tail. Even Zimbo tail has got similar strike rate. Now, KM has strike rate around 50!! in that case does he belong to the tail!!!:confused:

Secondly, In almost every team including Kenya and Zimbabwe Wicketkeeper is a top order batsman. In that case, what luxury allows us to keep a tail ender wicketkeeper with poor poor strike rate and batting average? :)

Tigers_eye
August 18, 2006, 10:56 AM
So strike rate is the main criteria for selecting a WK. Now I get it. Thanks for enligthening me.
added: Your question of Km having a less SR is answered in #3 and #4 of my previous post.

Bring in tamim iqbal please instead of KM. Make KM train him for two months. I heard he (Tamim) can field exceptional. How hard it will be for him to learn? I figure we can do well with a Batsman/WK and he would be our answer to the top order also. All problem solved with one move.

150 in 25 overs all out. Yep that would enable us to win all matches.

Miraz bhai,
Lets be sensible here. When we don't have any players with same average of the other international Wicket Keepers why only compare KM then. Even SN with 33 average is well below B Taylor's, Gilly, Sangakkara standard. What makes you think anyone replacing KM will be able to fill that void? Whoever batsmen/wicket keeper you want to replace KM with, may be as good as Bashar, Aftab or beloved Ash. That is the same average KM have. But we will be losing the service in WKing.

KM's Average is better or almost equal to our top order.

KM's career ave ODI 21.93
HB 21.62 opps!! my my his is lower than KM's. How can that be? A top order having a lower ave than a tail batsman?
Ash 20.15 hahaha!!! Do I need to say more?
Nafis Iqbal 19.31 and SR of 54.4 lol no comments.
AKapali 19.67 The stylish points boost his Kopal. We will still see him in the national team in the future.

Again, Realistic question how much would Mush ave and what would be his SR if he is included instead of KM? We can calculate which over BD will be all out that way. 30 to 35 for sure.

Miraz
August 18, 2006, 11:15 AM
So strike rate is the main criteria for selecting a WK. Now I get it. Thanks for enligthening me.


Bring in tamim iqbal please instead of KM. Make KM train him for two months. I heard he (Tamim) can field exceptional. How hard it will be for him to learn? I figure we can do well with a Batsman/WK and he would be our answer to the top order also. All problem solved with one move.

150 in 25 overs all out. Yep that would enable us to win all matches.

Again, Realistic question how much would Mush ave and what would be his SR if he is included instead of KM? We can calculate which over BD will be all out that way. 30 to 35 for sure.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->



Beloved Tigers_eye bhai,
So, in your opinion KM is the diffrence between our 25 overs all out and full 50 over play. Hmm.. makes sense why KM's strike rate is around 50. :)

Now let me enlighten you again about your myth..

Bangladesh won 20 ODI's so far in which KM was playing. Out of that 20 ODI in 8 ODI Khaled Mashud did not bat (ufff!!! still we managed to bat 50 overs and won matches, umm... very injustice to KM, we should have lost these matces), in 7 ODI innings he scored less than 15 (Ooops!! we all know drops of dew makes an ocean, without these contributions it was not possible to win those matches), in rest 5 matches he scored some decent runs (and those scores came against Hong Kong, Kenya and Zimbabwe).

Isn't it too much to say without KM we will be all out within 25-35 overs when we hardly received his service with bat in our wins.

Please, don't bring more myths.

Tigers_eye
August 18, 2006, 11:29 AM
There is no myth my friend. it is the absolute truth that 80% to 90% of the time our top order fails. that's why we only won 20 matches out of 160+ ODIs. You can't deny that. If you want a #7 batsman to win the matches for you single handedly, they you are asking for trouble. This is a team game i am sure you are aware of that. The contribution of the top order matters most to be able to put up a decent total to win a game. To me KM has proven his service for Bangladesh.

I wish KM reties from ODIs tomorrow. Then, only then, you guys would appreciate what he was for the team. Anyone who replaces KM, will not average average Ash and Aftab combined which you guys are hoping for.

On one thread you argue KM's notouts has inflated his average yet, in another you use the same reasoning to potray Ash's extra ordinary performance against Kenya. But we all really know who is more consistant in their respective positions.

sadi
August 18, 2006, 11:34 AM
Mirazbhai, the stats you gave about Pilot shows one thing. The day top order performs, we will win our share of games. We don't need KM to bat for us. So if we can make our top-order be more consistent, thats going to win us the game. Just like tiger_eye said, if you want a wk to win you the game, thats a problem. Ofcourse we expect runs from our wk but when your top order averages around 20, you cant blame your wk for not scoring enough runs or having a slow SR.

Miraz
August 18, 2006, 11:39 AM
Mirazbhai, the stats you gave about Pilot shows one thing. The day top order performs, we will win our share of games. We don't need KM to bat for us. So if we can make our top-order be more consistent, thats going to win us the game. Just like tiger_eye said, if you want a wk to win you the game, thats a problem. Ofcourse we expect runs from our wk but when your top order averages around 20, you cant blame your wk for not scoring enough runs or having a slow SR.

Man!! everyone is trying to say that our top order sucks!! still they managed 20 wins for us.

Now, If they click we will win otherwise not, then what's the use of having Middle order or lower order?? What else you will bring to prove that KM should stay? In your words KM is doodh bhath, no role in win but still need to be there. And again when top order fails as he is doodh bhath he can't win matches for us:)

Hmm.. I give up.

PoorFan
August 18, 2006, 11:44 AM
Is Pilot's batting in any way related to our top order batting performance? If not, then the success/failure of our top order should not be a factor when we judge Pilot's place in ODI team.

We should try to improve our team in all possible departments in any possible way at the same time.
Is Pilot's batting in any way related to batting failure of our team? If not, then the success/failure of Mashud should not be a factor when we judge our team performance.

May be you are right that we should try to improve 'in all possible departments in any possible way at the same time', but does it mean you are ready to replace those top order also with ex U19 players? I guess not. At least they ( ex 19 ) should be tested first in some real match, and should be judged for a certain period. Isnt it should be the 'possible way' we are talking about?

sadi
August 18, 2006, 11:45 AM
Don't give up bhaia. Just wondering, even though our top order sucks which I think you agree with, why not fix it first before coming to middle order or lower order. Isn't it the most important part of the batting lineup? Its like someone has Aids and Diarrhea and all you are trying to prescribe is something for diarrehea. Maybe if you take care of the important one first, the later one will take care of itself.

Miraz
August 18, 2006, 11:51 AM
Don't give up bhaia. Just wondering, even though our top order sucks which I think you agree with, why not fix it first before coming to middle order or lower order. Isn't it the most important part of the batting lineup? Its like someone has Aids and Diarrhea and all you are trying to prescribe is something for diarrehea. Maybe if you take care of the important one first, the later one will take care of itself.

Team management is continually trying to improve top order and you can see how many replacements are made.

Nafis Iqbal, JO, Hannan Sarkar, Al Shahriar, Faisal Hossain, Sanwar Hossain, Alok Kapali all got the boot!!

In case of bowlers Majurul Islam, Tapash Baisya, Talha Jubair, Nazmul Hossain, Mushfiqur Rahman are replaced by better bowlers.

Sakib, Farhad is included in the top order in recent tour. So, why we stop trying to improve ourselves in that WK position. Why you all are arguing against that. We need to improve in every departments and changes are necessary in every department. Don't deny the fact.

Tigers_eye
August 18, 2006, 11:57 AM
Team management is continually trying to improve top order and you can see how many replacements are made.

Nafis Iqbal, JO, Hannan Sarkar, Al Shahriar, Faisal Hossain, Sanwar Hossain, Alok Kapali all got the boot!!

In case of bowlers Majurul Islam, Tapash Baisya, Talha Jubair, Nazmul Hossain, Mushfiqur Rahman are replaced by better bowlers.

Sakib, Farhad is included in the top order in recent tour. So, why we stop trying to improve ourselves in that WK position. Why you all are arguing against that. We need to improve in every departments and changes are necessary in every department. Don't deny the fact.

Almost there. The top order consist of three permanent fixture who are not consistant with the ones who are brought in.
Ash
Aftab
Bashar
Fix their issues first before KM's. 20 match out of 160+ is not enough. we want to beat every team every time we take the field. At least compete. One big win every year is not enough improvement. If you try to replace KM with a better batsman/wk you open up a new can of worms in the fielding side.

Miraz
August 18, 2006, 12:02 PM
Almost there. The top order consist of three permanent fixture who are not consistant with the ones who are brought in.
Ash
Aftab
Bashar
Fix their issues first before KM's. 20 match out of 160+ is not enough. we want to beat every team every time we take the field. At least compete. One big win every year is not enough improvement. If you try to replace KM with a better batsman/wk you open up a new can of worms in the fielding side.

Combinedly Ash, Aftab and Bashar have won at least 10-15 matches for us and you want to axe them first and justify to retain the looser Pilot who never won a single match for us. And you say, you want to win every match or even compete??

cricket_dorshok
August 18, 2006, 12:03 PM
Man!! everyone is trying to say that our top order sucks!! still they managed 20 wins for us.

among all 20 matches BD won and KM played, atleast in four ocassions he had significant contribution.

Tigers_eye
August 18, 2006, 12:06 PM
Combinedly Ash, Aftab and Bashar have won at least 10-15 matches for us and you want to axe them first and justify to retain the looser Pilot who never won a single match for us. And you say, you want to win every match or even compete??

Its not possible to debate with you anymore. Sorry, mate!!
I do not want to axe them never said that, I want them perform better. Lets be clear on one thing. It is you who want to axe Pilot.

PoorFan
August 18, 2006, 12:11 PM
It's true very true that KM never belongs to top order and belongs to the tail. Please have a look at our current tailenders, evryone has strike rate above 75 and that is required from the tail. Even Zimbo tail has got similar strike rate. Now, KM has strike rate around 50!! in that case does he belong to the tail!!!:confused:

None of us blame Rafique, Mahree, Razzak, Shahadat or Rasel if they score a duck or single digit, or even get ALL out before 50 overs. But that's not the case go with Mashud, most of the time he has to bat through 50 overs! Even we fail to play 50 overs against MIGHTY Zimbo, so what's the point making big fuss on Mashud's strike rate? though I agree his strike rate is in decline these days, but isn't there bigger problem exist in our team? Besides how can you replace Mashud with a U19 player not even testing him in some real match?

cricket_dorshok
August 18, 2006, 12:14 PM
and those 17 matches BD won and Ashraful played, he had a significant contribution to six occasions only.

but yes those 15 matches BD won and Aftab played, he had a significant contribution to 12 occasions with an average 49.06.

Miraz
August 18, 2006, 12:17 PM
Besides how can you replace Mashud with a U19 player not even testing him in some real match?

So, if we don't allow Mushfiq to play instead of Pilot, how can he get the real match practice?? from virtual world??

We missed great opportunity in current Zim/Kenya tour. We have to replace KM in ODI, for that we need to play Mushfiq in some matches which will ensure a proper transition. We missed away tour and now we have home series against Zimbo's. Mushfiq should feature in the series right from the begining. Only then, you can find the difference.

PoorFan
August 18, 2006, 12:23 PM
Now let me enlighten you again about your myth..

Bangladesh won 20 ODI's so far in which KM was playing. Out of that 20 ODI in 8 ODI Khaled Mashud did not bat (ufff!!! still we managed to bat 50 overs and won matches, umm... very injustice to KM, we should have lost these matces), in 7 ODI innings he scored less than 15 (Ooops!! we all know drops of dew makes an ocean, without these contributions it was not possible to win those matches), in rest 5 matches he scored some decent runs (and those scores came against Hong Kong, Kenya and Zimbabwe).

Isn't it too much to say without KM we will be all out within 25-35 overs when we hardly received his service with bat in our wins.

Please, don't bring more myths.
BD won those match because top order scored well, why we should be asking Mashud to win those match? If our top continue to score like in Africa, we will be losing 120 match before wining that 20, and perhaps it has to be against Kenya or Zim. How much one Mushfique can do to change that?

Spitfire_x86
August 18, 2006, 12:25 PM
May be you are right that we should try to improve 'in all possible departments in any possible way at the same time', but does it mean you are ready to replace those top order also with ex U19 players? I guess not. At least they ( ex 19 ) should be tested first in some real match, and should be judged for a certain period. Isnt it should be the 'possible way' we are talking about?
You can't compare Mushfiq Rahim with other U-19 boys. He has been hanging around the national team for 1½ years. He was also captain of the U-19 team, so we can assume that he can deal with additional pressure.

Miraz
August 18, 2006, 12:26 PM
The top order consist of three permanent fixture who are not consistant with the ones who are brought in.
Ash
Aftab
Bashar
Fix their issues first before KM's.

I do not want to axe them never said that, I want them perform better. Lets be clear on one thing. It is you who want to axe Pilot.

Yes brother, I want to axe Pilot for good. I am very confident those days are sooner than later when Bangladesh team will be playing with a proper wicketkeeper batsman. I know, you'll be smiling in those days and will defnitely remember these arguments:)

mhferdaus
August 18, 2006, 12:28 PM
we can not give away all our senior players that soon, play pilot and Mushfiq togethere occassionally while making him regular at A team.

make KM Pilot bat at 8 down, believe he could bat very agressively but not anymore :(.

PoorFan
August 18, 2006, 12:30 PM
So, if we don't allow Mushfiq to play instead of Pilot, how can he get the real match practice?? from virtual world??

We missed great opportunity in current Zim/Kenya tour. We have to replace KM in ODI, for that we need to play Mushfiq in some matches which will ensure a proper transition. We missed away tour and now we have home series against Zimbo's. Mushfiq should feature in the series right from the begining. Only then, you can find the difference.
I said that in my previous post, that Mushfique should be given chance here and there so that he can adopt with the game. But that doesnt mean Mashud have to be dropped from ODI team.

cricket_dorshok
August 18, 2006, 12:36 PM
Yes brother, I want to axe Pilot for good. I am very confident those days are sooner than later when Bangladesh team will be playing with a proper wicketkeeper batsman. I know, you'll be smiling in those days and will defnitely remember these arguments:)

I don't think anyone expects someone will be playing over his whole life. everyone will have to go one day. But question is who and when. Well, I belive Pilot will be playing atleast till world cup!!!!!!!!!!!!

PoorFan
August 18, 2006, 12:56 PM
You can't compare Mushfiq Rahim with other U-19 boys. He has been hanging around the national team for 1½ years. He was also captain of the U-19 team, so we can assume that he can deal with additional pressure.
Spitty, I also have great hope on Mushi and other ex U19, he is hanging around with national team, but how many matches he played? Is that enough to replace Mashud? And why live on assume? what's wrong if we see Mushi little more giving chance here and there? To do that we dont need to axe Mashud from ODI team anyway.

We should try those ex U19 more, and slowly bring them in the team, otherwise same fragile batting line up we may face, like we had when Nafis, Nafees and Aftab joined. And we still have consistency problem with our top.

HawkEye000
August 18, 2006, 12:58 PM
Mashud shouldn't also be playing for Bangladesh in test matches too. Just look at his stats in his last 12 test matches.

Runs - 394
HS - 49
Avg - 17.90

This guy averages in the mid teens and haven't made a fifty in his last 24 test innings.

Just compare his stats with Rafique in his last 12 matches. Even Rafique outperforms him with the bat and that too by a big margin.

Rafique

Runs - 520
HS - 69
Avg - 23.63

Mushfiqur has a far superior record in FC cricket than Mashud. He has been travelling with this Bangladesh team for more than a year. I dont think he is learning much by just being in the dressing room. I am quite sure Mashud is in no mood to give him a helping hand too as he is direct competition with him. Giving Mushfiqur an odd game or two as a specialist batsman is just having detrimental effect on his career. As Mashud isn't doing any good to the team, I dont see any logic in making Mushfiqur wait in the wings for so long, which surely is affecting him in an adverse way.

sadi
August 18, 2006, 01:06 PM
In every country, wicket keepers wait in the wings for long before they get a chance... it only makes them hungrier... for example, Gillchrist... he had to wait a long time before they picked him over Healy... Another example is Boucher who had wait a while before Dav Richardson retired...

HawkEye000
August 18, 2006, 01:07 PM
play pilot and Mushfiq togethere occassionally while making him regular at A team.


Playing Mushfiqur as a specialist batsmen puts a whole lot of pressure on him. He is a wicket-batsman and when when you take one aspect of his game, he is under more pressure. When he knowst hat he is contributing as keeper too in any particular match he is playing, it eases the pressure on his batting. The other thing is giving an odd game or two, doesn't help any young cricketer. He wont be learning much by playing one game every series. He should be given a run of quite a few matches to settle down into international cricket. Infact playing a single match and failing and then getting dropped from the next match(not getting the chance to make ammends) is just leaving some mental scars on this young lad.

HawkEye000
August 18, 2006, 01:16 PM
In every country, wicket keepers wait in the wings for long before they get a chance... it only makes them hungrier... for example, Gillchrist... he had to wait a long time before they picked him over Healy...

Healy was playing in a winning team and was making making good contribution as a keeper and with the bat.

We need to improve in all the aspects of the game and when the selectors are looking for better batting and bowling options, there is no problem in looking for a better wicket-keeper batsman too. Plus Mahud has been faling with the bat for a long long time in both versions of cricket.

Spitfire_x86
August 18, 2006, 01:39 PM
Spitty, I also have great hope on Mushi and other ex U19, he is hanging around with national team, but how many matches he played? Is that enough to replace Mashud? And why live on assume? what's wrong if we see Mushi little more giving chance here and there? To do that we dont need to axe Mashud from ODI team anyway.
The selectors are responsible for this. There was no point of selecting him for the playing XI of 2nd test in the Srilanka series. The logical selection would be selecting him for the home ODI series aginst Kenya.

We need to give him few serieses here and there, not just one match in 6 months. If he played in all 3 ZIM/Ken series in this year and performed reasonably well, then you could find your answer.

I don't want to drop Pilot from ODI squad, we should keep him as reserve keeper for ODIs.

Tigers_eye
August 18, 2006, 03:06 PM
Playing Mushfiqur as a specialist batsmen puts a whole lot of pressure on him. He is a wicket-batsman and when when you take one aspect of his game, he is under more pressure. When he knowst hat he is contributing as keeper too in any particular match he is playing, it eases the pressure on his batting....

I can understand Miraz and Spitfire_s86's logic even though I don't agree with them on this issue. but i fail to understand where you are coming from. All this time what i gathered from experience is less workload, less responsibility = less pressure. That allows the person concentrate on every little task they have. The more work a person has to do the more pressure he is under. A captain is under more pressure than any other person in the team. Next comes the WK, then the strike bowler and the best batsmen, and then the rest. Because of the amout of their responsibility they have.

Under what logic you say Mushfiq would be under more pressure if he is only brought in under as a batsmen?

HawkEye000
August 18, 2006, 03:56 PM
Under what logic you say Mushfiq would be under more pressure if he is only brought in under as a batsmen?

When a person knows that he is giving service to the team through his keeping that would surely put less pressure on him as a batsman. It's like playing an allrounder in the team and restricting him to just bowling or batting. Don't you think that would put more pressure on him as one aspect of his game through which he can contribute to the team has been taken away. When Mushfiqur is played just as a specialist batsman, the only way he could contribute is through his batting as his keeping is taken away from him. Plus he is not even comfortable fileding. I hope you get it why I believe that.

Even the former cricketers like Wasim Akram were talking about Bnagladesh management ruining the career of Mushfiqur by just playing him as a batsman during the Sri Lanka series.

HawkEye000
August 18, 2006, 04:02 PM
My final question: You guys think the tail should bat as good as the top order? KM belongs to the tail not on the top order.


A wicket-keeper batsman who belongs to the tail should never play for Bangladesh. Especially in the shorter version of the game, batting is more important to a keeper than keeping.

Tigers_eye
August 18, 2006, 04:21 PM
When a person knows that he is giving service to the team through his keeping that would surely put less pressure on him as a batsman. It's like playing an allrounder in the team and restricting him to just bowling or batting. Don't you think that would put more pressure on him as one aspect of his game through which he can contribute to the team has been taken away. When Mushfiqur is played just as a specialist batsman, the only way he could contribute is through his batting as his keeping is taken away from him. Plus he is not even comfortable fileding. I hope you get it why I believe that.
I humbly disagree. If an alrounder is just asked to bat then he needs to concentrate on batting or if he is asked to give his service only through bowling then thats what he needs to do. It does not add any more pressure for sure rather than it lessens the pressure. Why I am right? SL recently brought in another wk to relieve some pressure from Sangakkara so that he can concentrate on batting only. Not to put more pressure on his broad shoulder. Not letting Aftab or Ash bowl gives them more time to practice concentrate more on their batting and rightly so. Again you will understand through your own experience less work responsibility equals to less pressure because it would allow you to concentrate more on the things that are being asked for you to do. Asking too many things all at one time would not be wise. Our selectors are doing the right thing.

roaring tigerz
August 18, 2006, 04:26 PM
Under what logic you say Mushfiq would be under more pressure if he is only brought in under as a batsmen?

The logic is simple. Mushfiq has represented Bangladesh at all levels only as a keeper. His natural role throughout all age group cricket has been a wicket-keeper and lower middle order batsman. When he was never picked in age group cricket as a pure batsman, selecting him to replace another top order batsman is not only irrational it is inviting failure for Mushfiq. Even if he does play as a top order batsman, he has to first be our keeper and then a batsman. Is Mushfiq among the best six batsmen in Bangladesh now? Maybe not. Is Mushfiq a better batsman than Pilot? His performances throughout age group cricket definitely points in that direction. The fact of the matter is, no matter how great a keeper pilot is, his inclusion weakens our already fragile and inconsistent batting. And no ODI team, let alone a struggling one like Bangladesh can afford a specialist ODI keeper.

HawkEye000
August 18, 2006, 04:30 PM
The logic is simple. Mushfiq has represented Bangladesh at all levels only as a keeper. His natural role throughout all age group cricket has been a wicket-keeper and lower middle order batsman. When he was never picked in age group cricket as a pure batsman, selecting him to replace another top order batsman is not only irrational it is inviting failure for Mushfiq. Even if he does play as a top order batsman, he has to first be our keeper and then a batsman. Is Mushfiq among the best six batsmen in Bangladesh now? Maybe not. Is Mushfiq a better batsman than Pilot? His performances throughout age group cricket definitely points in that direction. The fact of the matter is, no matter how great a keeper pilot is, his inclusion weakens our already fragile and inconsistent batting. And no ODI team, let alone a struggling one like Bangladesh can afford a specialist ODI keeper.


Totally agree with you

HawkEye000
August 18, 2006, 04:46 PM
Why I am right? SL recently brought in another wk to relieve some pressure from Sangakkara so that he can concentrate on batting only. Not to put more pressure on his broad shoulder. Not letting Aftab or Ash bowl gives them more time to practice concentrate more on their batting and rightly so. Again you will understand through your own experience less work responsibility equals to less pressure because it would allow you to concentrate more on the things that are being asked for you to do. Asking too many things all at one time would not be wise. Our selectors are doing the right thing.

You cannot compare Sangakkara and Mushfiqur. Sangakkara already proved that he is Sri Lanka's second best batsman so relieveing him of his keeping duties would allow him to concentrate on his batting. It didn't lessen any pressure but what it did was lessen the workload. As for Mushfiqur, may be he still is not the best 6 batsman we have. But as a wicket-keeper batsman, his batting is superior to Mashud. This guy has been playing all his cricket as a keeper who bats in the late middle order. So suddenly asking him to fill the role of a specialist batsman and barring him from keeping duties would surely put presure on his batting. Anyways no use arguing, if you dont get that playing Mushfiqur as a specialist batsman would just put some extra pressure on his yooung shoulders by now, i dont think you would get this ever.

Tigers_eye
August 18, 2006, 04:52 PM
I am as big a fan of Mushfiq as you guys. That's why I want to protect him. Not get wasted as so many of others had already faced. I know Mushfiq is better than KM in batting and may be in fielding/keeping too. Light years ahead of KM was at the age of 17. However, to get a short-term advantage I don't want him to lose his service when he is 23-25. You are all like US Companies. Always looking at the Short term answer instead focusing on the long term. Be like Japan. Think of Long-term effect. If history don't teach you anything then all the talents we wasted will have more names to be added there.

We all want what is best for our team. replacing players with teen agers is not the answer. let the teen agers mature to at least to their 20's. Otherwise when we face the bigger teams, the problems would get worse. Mean while we address the current problems of our team by having all the resources they need. Batting coaches, psychologists, scheduling more games, upgrading the domestic standard those should be the answers we all look for.

Have a great weekend.

Fazal
August 18, 2006, 05:00 PM
Bhaizan.... onek to hoilo... eibar Barit Zan. Bou polapan apner Jonno Apekhaa Kortase...

Have a nice weekend.

zia
August 18, 2006, 10:52 PM
Mushfiq is good but his performance in test cricket and ODIs for Bangladesh team was not at all encouraging. His performance for the junior BD team is definitely good. Under this premise I believe he needs to wait a bit. I was hoping that he will play against Kenya but due to Bashar's injury Pilot could not be spared. Bad luck, Mushfiq.

mhferdaus
August 18, 2006, 11:45 PM
Bhaizan.... onek to hoilo... eibar Barit Zan. Bou polapan apner Jonno Apekhaa Kortase...

Have a nice weekend.

was he here all day ???

Morpheous
August 19, 2006, 06:43 AM
and some expert BD cricket fans and selectors try to throw away from team..........

israr
August 19, 2006, 04:16 PM
Mashud's strike rate only goes low when Bangladesh faces a top order collapse, and I think thats fine if he's trying to re-build the innings. But I've seen him bat during the death overs in several matches, and he can still play those big shots very well. Unfortunately, he hasn't been given that opportunity by our top-order batsman. No wonder, his strike rate is very less, as almost in every case, he has to rescue us.
Overall, I am still with KM, and Mushfiq should still wait for a while to be completely matured before entering the international arena.