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jabbar
August 16, 2006, 12:55 AM
These players are the most inconsistent in the team, and I believe we are talking baout and pinning our hopes too much on them - in the hope that one day they will become consistent, class players. They have been given ample opportunity, and they have only a year or 2 left before Dav and BCC run out of patience. Let's look forward to the rising stars of the team.

Ahmed_B
August 16, 2006, 01:18 AM
So early? How long it will take you to start asking for the 'Rising starts' to be axed from the team? The average age of BD national team is around 22-23.. which is itself an exception in internaional cricket. You want it to be even lower?!

This tendency is actually like wanting to slaughter the duck which gives golden eggs for gettig all the eggs at a time... rather than waiting for getting one golden egg every day. Can you guess what the result is?

Take a look at this tread and you will know what I mean: http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=17252

tutul
August 16, 2006, 04:15 AM
I believe if I could train a monkey for few years how to hold a cricket bat, that monkey would become a good batsman. But these kids will never learn anything no matter who train them, how long you train them, and how many chances you give them. I am so sick and tired of seeing same mistake they are doing over and over. I am ready to trade them with anyone, Jo, Alok, Babu, Tushar, Bulbul, Atahar, oldster, youngster, doesn’t matter.

Ejaj
August 16, 2006, 05:16 AM
If anyone ever played any quality cricket at any level, would simply know that, this kind of thoughts are pretty immature stuff. Yes, the newer generation are better than older and its totally a normal thing. Ppl learn what they see and the newer players are playing / watching a much better batsman/bowlers than previous generation. Offcoarse, they will be oneday playing for the national flag. But, asking to axe present crop of players... are just too much of dreadful thinking. Technically, Ash. Aftab, Bashar arent that bad , may not be the best. Consistancy is the thing, only Aussies know what is that. So, we just need to be patient with them. I believe in them. Give them some more years. Too much changing.. not good at all and sincerely.. never improves anyting. Its always better that news players get introduced in more systematic form than by sudden rush.

Offocarse, I do agree on few. JO, Rajin Alok are must change for the team. I would be glad to see these places get filled by Mehrab, Sakib, Reza.

sadi
August 16, 2006, 09:04 AM
Give them some time and everything should be okay. These boys have talent. In five years, players like Ash and Aftab will have 200 odi behind their names and will be in their peak. They are still quite young. Have faith and be patient.

Mahmood
August 16, 2006, 09:14 AM
Instead of keeping them idle through the off season like last 4 monthes before the Zimbabwe series, and the next 2 months, keep them busy, arrage mini tournamnets like the indian challenge cup, try Twenty20, OD and 4 day tournaments. Keep them in game.

Thats the only solution.

sensible
August 16, 2006, 09:25 AM
These boys have talent. In five years, players like Ash and Aftab will have 200 odi behind their names and .....

And will have a batting average of 8!

If I could, I would get inside the brains of these idiots and change the genetic structure. How many times can you make the same mistake and don't learn from it? These idiots think they're the biggest stars and that's what blocking the porthole in their brains! Somebody should teach them humility........I can never forget the way Aftab or Ash was giving catch practice in the third oneday to Kenyan players. With a target like 118 and with so many overs left in the game, how could you play a shot like that? Specially when you saw a Guy like Odoyo play an innings right in the same field, in front of your own eyes?

The members of BC are too forgiving.....to the extent, I have to ponder..."were they......?"

sadi
August 16, 2006, 10:27 AM
The members of BC are too forgiving.....to the extent, I have to ponder..."were they......?"

lol... I guess we are forgiving because we don't have any other option... we don't have player pool like Australia or England... so we have to go with what we have and hope for the best... WE have lots of young talents... but if we bring them too early, they will give us the same results... really, these boys have talents but don't know why they don't learn... you need to use your talent the right way and thats where they fail everytime...

Tigers_eye
August 16, 2006, 10:50 AM
Instead of keeping them idle through the off season like last 4 monthes before the Zimbabwe series, and the next 2 months, keep them busy, arrage mini tournamnets like the indian challenge cup, try Twenty20, OD and 4 day tournaments. Keep them in game.

Thats the only solution.
I can't agree more. One more thing. I share the blame. We the fans, media hype them up so much that we forget they are still kids. We want them to perform like men. When Ash scored the first century (the youngest one) we were like yeah, we have a tendulkar or better. We fail to understand that tendulkar like player desends to this earth once in every century. Then beating the Australians at Cardiff. Yeah, BD can beat anyone in a given day. Eventhough we (players) lack basic knowledge of the game, we start comparing ourselves with the current WI team. Our domestic structure is a joke. All the division teams have no control on their players, budget etc.

Men (Tendu, Ponting, Mcgrath)(30+) need rest. Boys (20+) don't. They need more practice. Sitting for one month is Ok. but not 4 to 6 months (except for Rafiq, Bashar, Mashud). Why can't our A team play at Ranji trophy? The cost should not be that much. Heck they can schedule games against the W bengal teams in Calcutta. keeping these boys occupied is the duty of the management. If they can send multiple cricket board members on away tours with the team just to hold on the big check boards on the presentation ceremony, surely they have enough money to do wonders in keeping these boys busy.

Warlock
August 16, 2006, 11:03 AM
Don't know about Aftab, but I have lost patience with Ashraful a long time ago. Flash in the pan.

SMHasan
August 16, 2006, 11:03 AM
I can't agree more. One more thing. I share the blame. We the fans, media hype them up so much that we forget they are still kids. We want them to perform like men. When Ash scored the first century (the youngest one) we were like yeah, we have a tendulkar or better. We fail to understand that tendulkar like player desends to this earth once in every century. Then beating the Australians at Cardiff. Yeah, BD can beat anyone in a given day. Eventhough we (players) lack basic knowledge of the game, we start comparing ourselves with the current WI team. Our domestic structure is a joke. All the division teams have no control on their players, budget etc.

Men (Tendu, Ponting, Mcgrath)(30+) need rest. Boys (20+) don't. They need more practice. Sitting for one month is Ok. but not 4 to 6 months (except for Rafiq, Bashar, Mashud). Why can't our A team play at Ranji trophy? The cost should not be that much. Heck they can schedule games against the W bengal teams in Calcutta. keeping these boys occupied is the duty of the management. If they can send multiple cricket board members on away tours with the team just to hold on the big check boards on the presentation ceremony, surely they have enough money to do wonders in keeping these boys busy.

You have said my words. Thanks a lot!

SS
August 16, 2006, 11:28 AM
It's not loosing faith, but it's about surviving our cricket team
if they get out cheap, if affects rest of the batsmen tremendously.
If you look at our neighbors, Ind,Pak, lanka they have players who are below 25. But they are not idiot like Ash or Aftab. How can you explain that?

arafath79
August 16, 2006, 12:19 PM
We need a pinch hitter batsman like Aftab. He did well in Zim series but notin Kenya. He is still in a good form. I have a big hope on him.

arafath79
August 16, 2006, 12:20 PM
Ashraful !!! Oh no !! He is just a stupid player. :(

kalpurush
August 16, 2006, 12:32 PM
Posted by: SS
"If you look at our neighbors, Ind,Pak, lanka they have players who are below 25. But they are not idiot like Ash or Aftab. How can you explain that?"

Like the example below? :confused:

Performance of two young Pakistani players in Test against England which is currently going on:

Player 1st Test 2nd Test 3rd Test
1st ins. 2nd ins. 1st ins. 2nd ins. 1st ins. 2nd ins.

Salman But: 10, 0; - - 20, 16
Faisal Iqbal: 0, 48; 3, 29; 0, 11

Two more idiots!?

LateCut
August 16, 2006, 12:34 PM
Give them some time and everything should be okay. These boys have talent. In five years, players like Ash and Aftab will have 200 odi behind their names and will be in their peak. They are still quite young. Have faith and be patient.

Yes! They will be at the peak of their burnout!

LateCut
August 16, 2006, 12:37 PM
Posted by: SS

If you look at our neighbors, Ind,Pak, lanka they have players who are below 25. But they are not idiot like Ash or Aftab. How can you explain that?

Like the example below? :confused:

Performance of two young Pakistani players in Test against England which is currently going on:

Player 1st Test 2nd Test 3rd Test
1st ins. 2nd ins. 1st ins. 2nd ins. 1st ins. 2nd ins.

Salman But: 10, 0 - - 20, 16
Faisal Iqbal: 0, 48 3, 29 0, 11

Two more idiots!?

Ok! Now show me one in BD team who is under 20 and performing wel like the ones in SL and India (or even in Pakistan).

Fazal
August 16, 2006, 12:41 PM
Posted by: SS

Performance of two young Pakistani players in Test against England which is currently going on:

Player 1st Test 2nd Test 3rd Test
1st ins. 2nd ins. 1st ins. 2nd ins. 1st ins. 2nd ins.

Salman But: 10, 0; - - 20, 16
Faisal Iqbal: 0, 48; 3, 29; 0, 11

Two more idiots!?

Just wait and see when they play against Bangladesh again. These two more idiots will be heros again.

kalpurush
August 16, 2006, 12:42 PM
Instead of keeping them idle through the off season like last 4 monthes before the Zimbabwe series, and the next 2 months, keep them busy, arrage mini tournamnets like the indian challenge cup, try Twenty20, OD and 4 day tournaments. Keep them in game.

Thats the only solution.

.....nothing but the truth...:up:

BagherBacha
August 16, 2006, 12:45 PM
aftab will survive..

kalpurush
August 16, 2006, 12:54 PM
Just wait and see when they play against Bangladesh again. These two more idiots will be heros again.

Fazal bhai (sobay bhai bole tai amio bollam!;) !) Like Ashraful?! He plays good against the giants too!! Just wait and see when he plays against Australia again.:D

Fazal
August 16, 2006, 12:57 PM
Like Ashraful?! He plays good against the giants too!! Just wait and see when he plays against Australia again.:D
lol :D

Tigers_eye
August 16, 2006, 12:57 PM
aftab will survive..
How? By averaging 22.88 against the like of Kenya and Zimbabwe he is putting his head on the chopping block. He should have had at least 3 or 4 50s out of the 8 outings he had. I reckon before the series, the media and the coaches were saying he is in form. How can an inform batsman average 22.88? And the way he got out is as similar as he got out against SL (test) and Australia. All silly outs. "Here take my wicket" type.

kalpurush
August 16, 2006, 12:57 PM
Ok! Now show me one in BD team who is under 20 and performing wel like the ones in SL and India (or even in Pakistan).

Mashrafe!:D

kalpurush
August 16, 2006, 12:59 PM
I have more in my pocket too!

Miraz
August 16, 2006, 01:15 PM
We are getting impatient, way too early. Aftab and Ashraful is inconsistent but proven performer against al top quality opponents. We are injecting new bloods into the team, and they started well. Now it is important to see how they feature against big guns (Australia, England, South Africa, Pakistan, India...).

We need Aftab and Ashraful for our success in BD cricket. They are improving defnitely. In 2006 Ash averages 28.16 and Aftab 26.58. Not bad.

Have patience, let's see the progress of young players and then comment.

cricket_dorshok
August 16, 2006, 01:16 PM
Ashraful !!! Oh no !! He is just a stupid player. :(
ditto :up:

cricket_dorshok
August 16, 2006, 01:21 PM
We are getting impatient, way too early. Aftab and Ashraful is inconsistent but proven performer against al top quality opponents.

Its already 5 years, Ash has been playing in international cricket. Still, we need to be patient!!! How long he needs to be resonable consistent performer and to learn not throw his wicket!!!!

Miraz
August 16, 2006, 01:25 PM
Its already 5 years, Ash has been playing in international cricket. Still, we need to be patient!!! How long he needs to be resonable consistent performer and to learn not throw his wicket!!!!

I understand your pain & most of us share the same. You got me wrong, we are getting impateint and trying to justify Ash and Aftabs exclusion due to some good performance of young guns against Kenya and Zimbo's.

We have to wait to see their performance against top teams and then can ask for the exclusion of Ash and Aftab.

kalpurush
August 16, 2006, 01:42 PM
Its already 5 years, Ash has been playing in international cricket. Still, we need to be patient!!! How long he needs to be resonable consistent performer and to learn not throw his wicket!!!!

The way new kids in the block are performing, Ashraful and Aftab will soon find out the challenge and realize the value of consistancy to perform. Kothay ache na "chalake shikhye dekhe er bokay shikhye theke!" Just give them year or two,
K I N D L Y.:lol:

Fazal
August 16, 2006, 02:07 PM
"chalake shikhye dekhe er bokay shikhye theke!"

"...ar gordhob kokhonoyee shikhye na"

al Furqaan
August 16, 2006, 02:18 PM
Its already 5 years, Ash has been playing in international cricket. Still, we need to be patient!!! How long he needs to be resonable consistent performer and to learn not throw his wicket!!!!

we will have to accept that he will throw his wicket once or twice in a series and get out under 20 runs...i have noticed that ash tends to play very responsibly after a couple dumb-*** dismissals. for example the way he got out to ongondo the last match was just a good delivery. he tried defending a ball he prolly should have left alone.

aftab, actually seems a bit less mature than ashraful...what makes him look better is that he is quite a bit luckier. otherwise his avg would be even lower than ash's. this is the mistake you fans are making. ash and aftab are 2 great talents. and they are only 22 and 20. we must give them some time.

all other teams have young players who struggle initially, the yuraj singhs the jayasuriyas. and young for them means 23-24...our ash and aftab aren't even that old yet.

at a certain point, no matter, how much experience you have, with that high level of youth, consistancy against ppl 5-10 years older than you, is not a wise expectation.

many who call ash the fool, are themselves fools.

now can i guarantee that ash and aftab are gonna be greats in 3-4 years? no. i can't and i admit that. but they have improved, little as it might be, but a series of small improvements makes a single big improvement.

al Furqaan
August 16, 2006, 02:20 PM
remember tendulkar an amazing player came at the same age as ash and after 4-5 years his ODI avg was 30 or so, 1.5 times that of ash's. after that point tendy avged about 50. if ash and aftab can be 2/3 of tendy, then we have great players at hand.

Fazal
August 16, 2006, 02:26 PM
many who call ash the fool, are themselves fools.

:D
... and all the scorecards are fools also... and what about all those team reports? Those reporters must be all fool.

Poor Ashrafool. He should change his business name back to Motin. Atleast no one can any longer make fun with name anymore.

Fazal
August 16, 2006, 02:29 PM
if ash and aftab can be 2/3 of tendy, then we have great players at hand.

Ya I also think about Gullu the same way...you know some players are just late boomers.... from now on if Gullu can be 2/3 of tendy, then we will have another great player at hand.

...all those iffs and butts.... anything is possible in my dream

kalpurush
August 16, 2006, 03:34 PM
"...ar gordhob kokhonoyee shikhye na"

http://www.imh.org/imh/bw/images/dnkintrz.jpg (http://www.imh.org/imh/bw/images/dnkintr.jpg)

Seo je cricket khele jantam na!:D

al Furqaan
August 16, 2006, 04:27 PM
Ya I also think about Gullu the same way...you know some players are just late boomers.... from now on if Gullu can be 2/3 of tendy, then we will have another great player at hand.

...all those iffs and butts.... anything is possible in my dream

fazal bhai...i'm afraid your arguing like a female, with emotionality rather than factual observations.

i am not justifying ashraful and aftab's retarded play for the vast majority of their careers. but we cannot throw them away. if we could...i would drop those 2 blunderers for 2 years and then see if they learned anything. since we cannot do that (unless you want gullu, who is 2/3 of a millionth of tendulkar, and kapali back) you name me one, just one viable alternative to keeping faith in ash and aftab.

its a bit clever to mention scorecards, and match reports, but why not mention their cricinfo profiles where it states their present ages? surely, you cannot just be looking at some of the facts, and ignore the others...which may actually explain why those first facts are occuring.

as a final question, how many pakistani, indian, south african, english, west indian, and australian cricketers had averages above 30 in ODIs, and/or above 40 in Tests while being 22 years old or younger.

Tendulkar might be the only one, and he didn't average much over 40 in Tests, and his average was just above 30 in ODIs.

if by the age of 25, ash and aftab don't accomplish much, then we can say with 90% confidence that they are worthless crickers. even 3 years from now, there is a chance for them to come good, but that is really rare.

Fazal
August 16, 2006, 04:53 PM
fazal bhai...i'm afraid your arguing like a female, with emotionality rather than factual observations.

Khaisee... I better keep my mouth shut then.:lol:

In other countries you don't see lot of successful 22 years old because they don't need to take risk. Its not the player's age you need to see, its how long they are playing for national team (5+ years for Ash) and how many games they have played so far. Plus do you really see any progress or are they learning from their experience? Are they taking advantage of the opportunity they are getting? if you add all those things... the prospect of Ash's future is not so great... forget about comparison with Tendu.

I can see more maturity in Farhad and Sakib's batting than Ash or Aftab's batting. I see players like Farhad, Sakib, Razzak and Shadat are taking advantage of every bit of opportunity that they are getting. Looks like they (Sakib, Farhad, Razzak) are not overwelmed, fast learner, under-stand the team's need (either protect the wicket and score some runs in 1s and 2s or excelerate the run-rate with a flurry of 4s and 6s).

Now can I guarantee that they will continue to be successful against the better teams? No I cannot. But do you know what? So far we have seen, I have more confidence in Farhad and Sakib's future success than Ash or even Aftab. I have still more hope in Aftab than in Ash.

Do I want both of them out of the team forever? No I don't. I want them as irregular
memebers of the team before they can prove that they can perform day in and day out like Farhad did so far.

So what are the alternatives for Ash or Aftab? With their current form I don't want both of them in the team at the same time. two of them in the same team plus no good 2nd opener: its too risky for the team, a guaranteed batting collapse at the begining of the innings. I want either one of them tried alternatively and let them figure out who is the lesser culprit. and in the mean time let these two kids (Reza and Sakib) play more and learn from their mistakes. Its a better invesment than wasting slots in players who refuse to learn from their mistakes. Plus the return of bashar will help them to be less dependent on Ash or Aftab.

Now we still have issue with the 2nd opener opening with Nafees. And I am hoping that, if given opportunity, Mehrab Jr. will prove that he is the better choice than any other players that we have now. Also I still have hope in Nafis. What they are doing with off-form Nafis is the better way dealing with off-form young players than what they did with Ash. And thats what they should do with Ash in the future.

israr
August 16, 2006, 05:08 PM
fazal bhai...i'm afraid your arguing like a female, with emotionality rather than factual observations.

i am not justifying ashraful and aftab's retarded play for the vast majority of their careers. but we cannot throw them away. if we could...i would drop those 2 blunderers for 2 years and then see if they learned anything. since we cannot do that (unless you want gullu, who is 2/3 of a millionth of tendulkar, and kapali back) you name me one, just one viable alternative to keeping faith in ash and aftab.

its a bit clever to mention scorecards, and match reports, but why not mention their cricinfo profiles where it states their present ages? surely, you cannot just be looking at some of the facts, and ignore the others...which may actually explain why those first facts are occuring.

as a final question, how many pakistani, indian, south african, english, west indian, and australian cricketers had averages above 30 in ODIs, and/or above 40 in Tests while being 22 years old or younger.

Tendulkar might be the only one, and he didn't average much over 40 in Tests, and his average was just above 30 in ODIs.

if by the age of 25, ash and aftab don't accomplish much, then we can say with 90% confidence that they are worthless crickers. even 3 years from now, there is a chance for them to come good, but that is really rare.

I dont think I've to explain it any further, al-Furqan bhai has just done it all for me. By the time Ash and Aftab turns 25, and if they dont bring in any kind of consistency by then, I will be the first one to voice my approval against them and I give you my word. You all be my witness.

Insha'ALLAH this will never happen...........

kaisermatin
August 16, 2006, 05:12 PM
I believe if I could train a monkey for few years how to hold a cricket bat, that monkey would become a good batsman....

Then you should be the next BD coach.

Fazal
August 16, 2006, 05:15 PM
Then you should be the next BD coach.

Are they going to pay the same salary and benefits?

kaisermatin
August 16, 2006, 05:20 PM
Question is: Is Ash or Aftab paying any cash to stay on the team? What are the selection performance criteria? Why didn't we see any statement from Dave Whatore. Looks like no body has to report to anyone in this team. That's why responsibility of these players are zero.

jabbar
August 16, 2006, 08:40 PM
I am not proposing to drop these players. We should not give them "star status" just for a century every 20-30 games. Rather, teh player who is consistent (ie. gets 50s every 3 games or so) should get this treatment. Not just from fans, but from the coaching staff and cricket board. *Consistency* should be rewarded.

DotBall
August 16, 2006, 11:43 PM
I tried to read all the posts in this thread but couldn't do all. So, if someone already said it then I support to that and if that's not the case here is what I think about all this.
Short-term fixes are not the answer to our problem. It has been 5 years already and we still do not have a solid plan to develop players. If we are to kick someone out of the national team then selectors needs to do it for the right purpose and not bring them back after few months with a hope that everybody might have forgotten about their bad performances.
The worst reason among all is the expectation of our selectors, fans, and people from these young players. We compared Ash and Aftab with some cricket legends without any thought. We are not going to become a great cricketing nation without the hard work and the history. So, buckle up and enjoy the bumpy ride. There is no shrot-cut and we are not going to have a legends like Bradman and Tendulkar this early in our cricket. We will have some very good players and they will need our support and more so our honest and constructive criticism not some baseless praises.

Tokyobreeze
August 17, 2006, 01:26 AM
The major harm Aftab and Ash is causing these days is they are getting out very quickly playing some irresponsible and unnecessary shots, which is putting the team in treamendous pressure.Often we are not recovering well from that pressure.

I don't think it's already time for exclusion of Aftab.I think, Aftab should be brought late in the order where he has to play with responsibility.You all remember the way he brought the victory against Australia and helped one against Srilanka playing late in the order.

For Ash, he has already been tried into different positions.Everywhere he has shown almost the same level of inconsistency and lack of responsibility.I think, in one/two games in a series other players like Mehrab Jr should be tried in place of Ash-Fool.If Mehrab performs, the place of Ash-Foool will become questionable and he will feel the heat.For now, I don't think he feels the heat or possibility of exclusion.That might be last thing which can teach him some responsibility.Though I reckon some people never learns.And, sadly after playing a good number of one-days(76 to be exact), Ash-Fool is becoming a proof of the old saying -

গাধার গায়ে কি লেখা থাকে এটা গাধা? থাকে না । তবে, কাজকর্মে ঠিকই বোঝা যায় ।

Zaheed Mahmood
August 17, 2006, 02:11 AM
There is absolutely no point in comparing Ash-Aftab (or any other BD player) to legendary Tendulkar, nor do I see any point in weeping over not having a Tendulkar, Sunny or Miandad (haven't mentioned Bradman, Sobers or Lara due to different physique and mentality) in this short stint since awarding of the status. We don't have pool of quality players (someone else also mentioned it, I just couldn't agree less) tested against the big teams and that's the reason we are at no liberty to shuffle the players moving them in and out in bunches after every 2 or 3 games! This constrained situation defends the inclusion of Ash and Aftab in the team, I agree Ash is irritably inconsistent (I believe, Aftab still needs a few more game to prove whether he is really constantly inconsistent), but both of them have shown to have the shots in their artillery against the quality bowling manifested in the likes of Harmison, Shoaib, Murali or Gillespie. It will not be wise to axe them in such young age (age is a big factor no matter what), they need to be groomed to deliver one in each 3 games instead of 5/6 games! However, I do agree that Ash-Aftab should be played along with the performing rookies Reza-Sakib in an alternate fashion if 4 of them simultaneously don't fit into a playing 11, the benefit will go both ways!!
Zaheed

Rabz
August 17, 2006, 02:23 AM
my patience is running thin too...
its been a while they hv bn playin the games and by now should understand the gravity of it... they should hv realised that they r the best batsmen in the team and act accordingly. but unfortunately, they havent.

i'd rather hv a less talented consistent performer than this so called superstars.

cricket_dorshok
August 17, 2006, 05:46 AM
Question is: Is Ash or Aftab paying any cash to stay on the team? What are the selection performance criteria? Why didn't we see any statement from Dave Whatore. Looks like no body has to report to anyone in this team. That's why responsibility of these players are zero.

from the management to the players, everyone has zero responsibility, accountability. all (specially management) are busy to earn some hefty amount anyhow. nobody cares about the performance of the team or the individuals. if management asks responsibility and accountability from the players, then they should show the same that they don't like to. coz if they need to show their responsibility and accountability, then how they will digest all the hefty earnings for which they became cricket organiser, cricket lovers, etc. etc. !!!!!!!!!

Miraz
August 17, 2006, 06:14 AM
Ash had a poor kenya series, still he is one of the better performer in top order have a look, don't forget to look at the average and more importantly the S/R of Pilot, and keep in mind he has already played 120 ODI's.

Bangladesh in Kenya, 2006 One-Day Series Averages
Bangladesh v Kenya



Bangladesh Batting and Fielding
Name Mat I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
Farhad Reza (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/55894.html) 3 3 2 90 41* 90.00 89.10 - - 2 -
Mohammad Ashraful (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/55988.html) 3 3 1 88 67* 44.00 115.78 - 1 1 -
Saqibul Hasan (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/56143.html) 3 3 1 58 25* 29.00 63.04 - - - -
Aftab Ahmed (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/56266.html) 3 3 0 57 38 19.00 64.04 - - - -
Shahriar Nafees (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/56153.html) 3 3 0 43 18 14.33 64.17 - - 1 -
Khaled Mashud (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/55954.html) 3 1 0 13 13 13.00 28.88 (S/R) - - 5 3
Rajin Saleh (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/56074.html) 2 2 0 22 19 11.00 30.13 - - 1 -
Tushar Imran (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/56186.html) 1 1 0 2 2 2.00 15.38 - - - -
Mohammad Rafique (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/55973.html) 3 1 0 0 0 0.00 0.00 - - - -
Mashrafe Mortaza (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/56007.html) 3 1 1 43 43* - 81.13 - - - -
Abdur Razzak (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/56283.html) 3 1 1 14 14* - 60.86 - - 1 -
Syed Rasel (http://uk.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/player/56160.html) 3 0 - - - - - - - - -


</PRE>

Ahmed_B
August 17, 2006, 06:56 AM
I can see more maturity in Farhad and Sakib's batting than Ash or Aftab's batting. I see players like Farhad, Sakib, Razzak and Shadat are taking advantage of every bit of opportunity that they are getting. Looks like they (Sakib, Farhad, Razzak) are not overwelmed, fast learner, under-stand the team's need (either protect the wicket and score some runs in 1s and 2s or excelerate the run-rate with a flurry of 4s and 6s).
I have the same observation as you on this matter.. but not the same perception or explanation. Just my two cents(about the batsmen only.. not the bowlers):

1) Firstly... players like Ash/Aftab/Rajin/Nafis Iqbal... all had the same kind of 'more maturity than the seniors' when they started their career...just like Farhad/Sakib are showing in their debut. Personally... I am bothered by the fact that those Ash group players are somewhat deterioriating in maturity with time. You can't really judge Farhad/Sakib's maturity at their debut.. let them stay there for a while and see if they improve/deteriorate.

2)Secondly.. its kind of an overstatement to call Farhad or Sakib or anyone to be 'quite matured' when they are playing against sides like ZIM/Kenya. The Aftab gang made their debut against much stronger teams and made even a more impressive start. Remember Rajin in pakinstan tour?.. he was like a national hero then. So please take some more time before making these newcomers our next 'superstars'.

As I said also in the 'Bermuda Triangle' thread... we probably should keep our expectations low from all the newcomers.. and I would prefer that from the experience the 'already youngstars' are giving us.

Fazal
August 17, 2006, 09:01 AM
1) Firstly... players like Ash/Aftab/Rajin/Nafis Iqbal... all had the same kind of 'more maturity than the seniors' when they started their career...just like Farhad/Sakib are showing in their debut. Personally... I am bothered by the fact that those Ash group players are somewhat deterioriating in maturity with time. You can't really judge Farhad/Sakib's maturity at their debut.. let them stay there for a while and see if they improve/deteriorate.

2)Secondly.. its kind of an overstatement to call Farhad or Sakib or anyone to be 'quite matured' when they are playing against sides like ZIM/Kenya. The Aftab gang made their debut against much stronger teams and made even a more impressive start. Remember Rajin in pakinstan tour?.. he was like a national hero then. So please take some more time before making these newcomers our next 'superstars'.


Good point. There is always a temptation to make newcomers our next 'superstars' after their first few success. Which is the other extreme. And I understand it. The exmaple of early success of Aftab and Rajin against better team is a good example. But there is a minor difference between them and these kids. And that is: due to better program for u-19 and team-a they are atleast better prepared interms of experience and preparation. Now does that make a big differnce? I don't know. Are they going to falter against better teams? I don't know.

What I know is playing against lowly rated teams like ZIM and Kenya, these new breed of players played better, looked more composed, knows what they are doing, playing with a plan... comapared to players like Gullu, Alok, Rajin, Ash, Aftab or even Pilot when batting.

For Sakib I have high hope. But for Razzak and Forhad I would be more than happy if they become servicable ODI players who contibute constantly. About Forhad I am not even sure how effective bowler he will be. I still have some hope on Aftab. But I pretty much gave up on Ash.

May be this kids will also fail pretty soon. But so far so good and if I have to bet my money about their future career I would rather bet on Sakib, Razzak, or Farhad than Ash or even Aftab.

Sovik
August 17, 2006, 09:07 AM
aftab is getting out quickly but after scoring some quick runs. but what's ash doing?

Tigers_eye
August 17, 2006, 09:13 AM
Fazal bhaijan,
All is fine except get Razzak out of the young players list. He is 24+. Where as Ash, Alok, Rajin are 22+, and Aftab is 20+. Putting Razzak in the ranks of Sakib and Farhar is a joke anyway you see it. specially when you are putting Ash-Aftab to an older generation. He wasn't silver spoon fed like Ash-Aftab. He had to earn his position.

Fazal
August 17, 2006, 09:23 AM
Fazal bhaijan,
All is fine except get Razzak out of the young players list. He is 24+. Where as Ash is 22+ and Aftab is 20+. Putting Razzak in the ranks of Sakib and Farhar is a joke anyway you see it. specially when you are putting Ash-Aftab to a older generation.

There are couple of things to consider:

#1: We don't know what these player's real age.

#2: When we talk about a player's potential, not only we need to see what is his physical age, but also how long he is playing professionally. Ash may be 22+ (official age), but he is representing the national team for 5+ years. If someone gets it they get it... if they don't they never do... and in my opinion Ash is in the 2nd category.. there is no point beating a dead horse. So yes... I have more hope for Razzak's contribution in our ODI team in near future than Ash.

Therefore to me 24+ is not a old age for a player to build their career, and when I mean new kids I mean the new member in the team not players like Ash who is playing for 5+ Years.

Now as for Aftab, I agree he is in between. He souldn't be bundles with Ash yet .Thats why I said I still have some hope about him. but on the other hand, there is every synmtop, he is another Ash in making interms of bad habbits. That disapoints me.

He wasn't silver spoon fed like Ash-Aftab. He had to earn his position
100% agree with you.

Tigers_eye
August 17, 2006, 09:36 AM
....But there is a minor difference between them and these kids. And that is: due to better program for u-19 and team-a they are atleast better prepared interms of experience and preparation. Now does that make a big differnce?

....
For Sakib I have high hope. But for Razzak and Forhad I would be more than happy if they become servicable ODI players who contibute constantly. About Forhad I am not even sure how effective bowler he will be. I still have some hope on Aftab. But I pretty much gave up on Ash.

May be this kids will also fail pretty soon. But so far so good and if I have to bet my money about their future career I would rather bet on Sakib, Razzak, or Farhad than Ash or even Aftab.
Sorry, my bad, I thought you were including Razzak under "these kids". Razzak came up just as Ash, Alok, Rajin and Aftab did. Not like Sakib, Farhad, Mushfiq, Mehrab Jr., Sadat etc.

Fazal
August 17, 2006, 09:40 AM
Razzak came up just as Ash, Alok, Rajin and Aftab did. Not like Sakib, Farhad, Mushfiq, Mehrab Jr., Sadat etc.

You are right .. I shouldn't have bundled up Razzak with , Farhad, Mushfiq, Mehrab Jr., Sadat etc. Razzak is another example how to take advantage of the opportunity given to him. I was never fan of Razzak. But now I don't mind him in the team as long as he continue to contribure one way or another.

TheWatcher
August 17, 2006, 09:57 AM
Fazal, I agree with you that Shakib and Farhad have shown lot more consistency in their forming years than Ash or Aftab had. But, have you seen Shakib batting ? Well, I have not, but what I heard is that his footwork is not sound at all. I also heard that his tendency of playing away from his body is worrisome. One other fact that makes me worry about Shakib is that, in his short FC career, Matsikenyeri got him five times (source (http://www.cricket-online.org/player.php?player_id=64966))- it may be a good indication that he is dodgy against offspin.

Anyway, as Ahmed bhai advised, I will reserve my judgement about new kids until the champions trophy is over.

Rabz
August 17, 2006, 10:02 AM
There are couple of things to consider:

#1: We don't know what these player's real age.

#2: When we talk about a player's potential, not only we need to see what is his physical age, but also how long he is playing professionally. Ash may be 22+ (official age), but he is representing the national team for 5+ years. If someone gets it they get it... if they don't they never do... and in my opinion Ash is in the 2nd category.. there is no point beating a dead horse. So yes... I have more hope for Razzak's contribution in our ODI team in near future than Ash.

Therefore to me 24+ is not a old age for a player to build their career, and when I mean new kids I mean the new member in the team not players like Ash who is playing for 5+ Years.

on #1, i completely agree with ya. most of these players ar atleast dui theke tin bochor er boro. one of my very best mates went to trail for u-17 national team quite a few years back (probably in 2000). one significant "person" on that trial was also our beloved Ashrafool. now they r of same age, ie, 25 ( so am i). but according to BCB Ash is 22. interestingly, according to the same BCB, my mate is now only 21!! the officials just put watever they feel like. every single player in the team ( probably except Bashar and senior et all) is a good 2-3 years older.

on #2, again couldnt say it better myself. some one like Ash is playing in the team for almost 5 years. if he still doesnt get it, may be he wont, ever. may be he is just a thick head we wont hv to live with. place in the national team is no charity spot and everyone should earn it.

if only potential could play for itself, we wud hv been world champions by now

think of Rokon, Hanna, Tushar, Alok, Mehrab Snr,Talha Jubair, Md Sharif. and think of their potentials and add up the sum !! i know its just too big to even start counting!!

im sick of hearing of what he can do on his given day. may be i can do it too. if a miracle lightning struck me on my head i might turn out to be the next Lara, but otherwise, it aint happening.

untill and unless he gets consistent, i cant see him serving in the team beyond the world cup next year.

Fazal
August 17, 2006, 10:12 AM
Fazal, I agree with you that Shakib and Farhad have shown lot more consistency in their forming years than Ash or Aftab had. But, have you seen Shakib batting ? Well, I have not, but what I heard is that his footwork is not sound at all. I also heard that his tendency of playing away from his body is worrisome. One other fact that makes me worry about Shakib is that, in his short FC career, Matsikenyeri got him five times (source (http://www.cricket-online.org/player.php?player_id=64966))- it may be a good indication that he is dodgy against offspin.

Anyway, as Ahmed bhai advised, I will reserve my judgement about new kids until the champions trophy is over.

Good info TheWatcher. Like you, I also haven't seen much of his batting against Kenya except for highlights which doesn't tell much about his batting weakness. So I cannot comment on his batting technique.

So yes ... there is no guarantee.... lets hope and pray for the best and I agree that IF they play in champions trophy, that will give us a better understanding how far they have progressed so far. There is a big IF here, as I doubt the selectors will let them play in champions trophy that much.

sadi
August 17, 2006, 10:52 AM
I have seen Sakib batting a little bit and I think he has better footwork than most of our stars... The way he drives through the cover is very elegent and this kid has class trust me

tutul
August 17, 2006, 10:54 AM
Then you should be the next BD coach. should i add those pics to my resume?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41403000/jpg/_41403578_bushgesture_ap220.jpghttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41403000/jpg/_41403582_bushstrikes_afp220.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41403000/jpg/_41403588_bushkhan_ap220.jpghttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41403000/jpg/_41403586_bushbowls_ap220.jpg

LateCut
August 18, 2006, 08:30 AM
Do really believe Ash wrot this? It smells like Rabid all the way!

http://www.tigercricket.com/viewNews.aspx?newsID=136

rudro
August 18, 2006, 09:04 AM
We are getting impatient, way too early.

Or, have we injected them into national team too early?

Consider players like SH or Shahadat or Syed Rasel or SN. Their transition to the national fold was not as straightforward as Ash or Aftab. These four players were part of under 19 and A team much longer than Ash and Aftab were. Ash and Aftab are frustrating us early because they entered straight into the NBA without playing enough college Basketball. Not everyone can be a Kobe Bryant or Lebron James!

So give me (and them, and our team) a break! list them into A side for a series or two.

bengal_tiger2006
August 18, 2006, 09:37 AM
:D
... and all the scorecards are fools also... and what about all those team reports? Those reporters must be all fool.

Poor Ashrafool. He should change his business name back to Motin. Atleast no one can any longer make fun with name anymore.
nice one:up: i agree with u... he shud be called ashrafool.Lol

cricket_er
August 18, 2006, 10:47 AM
Ashraful and Aftab should definitely be kicked out. Bangladesh is playing in the highest level. There is no room for chicken hearted people who can not control their desire to play shots. Go and check out the number 3, 4, 5 bats-man for any good team. You will see how relieble they are. These guys are nothing but Sloggers. Even Mashrafee can play nice looking shots (Batsman like). But you don't see him going up in the line up. You know what, he has more decipline that the above two put together. Here is my 2 cents.

LateCut
August 18, 2006, 12:12 PM
http://www.tigercricket.com/viewNews.aspx?newsID=136

He loves it at Rainhill. Let him play there.