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pagol-chagol
December 8, 2006, 12:42 PM
Zim sucks. Period. Our players are missing valuable match practice not playing in the Premier League. The games between Khulna division and Sylhet division would help them prepare for the World cup better. Wake up. I mean, go to sleep. This is a pointless series.

Rihaad The Man
December 8, 2006, 12:52 PM
Just wondering , how come you are a "cricket-legend" ?

Any international team is good for us as long as they are official caz it effects our ranking all the way too .....

rupantor
December 8, 2006, 01:01 PM
P-C's argument was based on the point of World Cup Preparation.
R-T-M tried to hit back at P-C, but based his reasoning on ICC Ranking.

So I conclude: Higher ODI ranking helps World Cup Preparation.
Therefore, we should avoid playing stronger teams before Wolrd cup.

al Furqaan
December 8, 2006, 01:05 PM
well we have proved that we aren't on the level of zimbabwe, with this white washed series. we proved finally, what we all knew last summer: our series loss in zimbabwe was a fluke.

this was an important series for this reason...now we will have to come out and wait for the NZ game right before we take on India in the WC

akabir77
December 8, 2006, 01:05 PM
People who say playing zimbo pointless want to point something to you. please watch the ashes. over there australia is playing with england just like we r doing with zimbo. if you r dominating in all dipartment doesn't matter how good the other team is it will be boaring and usless etc etc. to me zimbo's r not that bad. if they had two thre batsmen in form they would give us hard time like the last series. I am not sure what people wants? if they had lose to zimbo would that make them happy since every one would get a chance to practice!!! wake up and smell the cofee.

Spitfire_x86
December 8, 2006, 01:07 PM
I get your sarcasm.

In reality, a strong domestic team would be very competitive against this Zimbo team. And if our players play domestic league, they always remain aware of the standard. Domestic league runs and wickets wouldn't generate the sense of complacency in our players that this series potentially can.

(edit: Now it doesn't seem that you were being sarcastic. I thought the smiley meant something :( )

pagol-chagol
December 8, 2006, 01:10 PM
P-C's argument was based on the point of World Cup Preparation.
R-T-M tried to hit back at P-C, but based his reasoning on ICC Ranking.

So I conclude: Higher ODI ranking helps World Cup Preparation.
Therefore, we should avoid playing stronger teams before Wolrd cup.

Brilliant argument. I got to go back read all your posts.

skhondoker
December 8, 2006, 01:10 PM
Zim sucks. Period. Our players are missing valuable match practice not playing in the Premier League. The games between Khulna division and Sylhet division would help them prepare for the World cup better. Wake up. I mean, go to sleep. This is a pointless series.


No....Bangladesh is doing good. I think we are getting match practices out of this series. Zim sucks is as much as true to Ban is doing good. We are gaining confidence. This series should let the world know that Zim really are the minnows now in the world and not to compare Ban to Zim anymore. Ban deserves a little more respect. This series was a point to make as well as some match practices.

pagol-chagol
December 8, 2006, 01:14 PM
No....Bangladesh is doing good. I think we are getting match practices out of this series. Zim sucks is as much as true to Ban is doing good. We are gaining confidence. This series should let the world know that Zim really are the minnows now in the world and not to compare Ban to Zim anymore. Ban deserves a little more respect. This series was a point to make as well as some match practices.

I recommend our next series to be against Scotland. And if we improve our confidence further, I suggest playing Maldives next.

pagol-chagol
December 8, 2006, 01:18 PM
People who say playing zimbo pointless want to point something to you. please watch the ashes. over there australia is playing with england just like we r doing with zimbo. if you r dominating in all dipartment doesn't matter how good the other team is it will be boaring and usless etc etc. to me zimbo's r not that bad. if they had two thre batsmen in form they would give us hard time like the last series. I am not sure what people wants? if they had lose to zimbo would that make them happy since every one would get a chance to practice!!! wake up and smell the cofee.

When Australia is playing England, they are competing against a team that is at the same level as their competition in the world cup. We're preparing to beat Barmuda, not India and/or Srilanka.

FaridpurChicago
December 8, 2006, 01:29 PM
We got real problem here. If we play good and win easily then "we shouldn't play against them as the opponents are too low comparing to us". If we lose a match then "we are not still up to standard and don't deserve match against them"

Hey, come on guys, don't you want cricket?

Watch 'Ha-du-du' then.

FaridpurChicago
December 8, 2006, 01:43 PM
This series is a clear indication to the world that we are no more at the basement with Zim and Ken. The world shouldn't compare us with them. We are closer to top ranked teams than the distance between Zim and us.

Most of the series are one sided now a days. SA played a one sided ODI against Ind. Aus is playing a one sided game against Eng. NZ preferred SL to BD so that they avoid one sided game and unfortunately it is again one sided. Only there's competition between Pak and WI. Out of 5 current/recent series, only one is competitive, i.e., 80% is one sided.

No one is calling there games meaningless except us.

pagol-chagol
December 8, 2006, 01:43 PM
We got real problem here. If we play good and win easily then "we shouldn't play against them as the opponents are too low comparing to us". If we lose a match then "we are not still up to standard and don't deserve match against them"

Hey, come on guys, don't you want cricket?

Watch 'Ha-du-du' then.

Please read Rupantor's post. What you are doing is called "straw man argument", a time tested technique that politicians love to use and its effective on mass people. Look it up in google.

pagol-chagol
December 8, 2006, 01:45 PM
This series is a clear indication to the world that we are no more at the basement with Zim and Ken. The world shouldn't compare us with them. We are closer to top ranked teams than the distance between Zim and us.

Most of the series are one sided now a days. SA played a one sided ODI against Ind. Aus is playing a one sided game against Eng. NZ preferred SL to BD so that they avoid one sided game and unfortunately it is again one sided. Only there's competition between Pak and WI. Out of 5 current/recent series, only one is competitive, i.e., 80% is one sided.

No one is calling there games meaningless except us.

This argument of yours has been answered in a previous post. Look at post #10.

Miraz
December 8, 2006, 01:48 PM
IMO. this series was important to prove that we are no longer in the same bracket with Zimbabwe.

But, I am really disappointed to see the next teams we are playing ahead of World Cup. Those matches will not help us in any way for WC preparation.

I agree with P-C, playing competetive premier league matches would be better compared to playing Scots, Bermuda/Namibia.

israr
December 8, 2006, 01:50 PM
This series is a clear indication to the world that we are no more at the basement with Zim and Ken. The world shouldn't compare us with them. We are closer to top ranked teams than the distance between Zim and us.

Most of the series are one sided now a days. SA played a one sided ODI against Ind. Aus is playing a one sided game against Eng. NZ preferred SL to BD so that they avoid one sided game and unfortunately it is again one sided. Only there's competition between Pak and WI. Out of 5 current/recent series, only one is competitive, i.e., 80% is one sided.

No one is calling there games meaningless except us.

Spot on.

akabir77
December 8, 2006, 01:51 PM
When Australia is playing England, they are competing against a team that is at the same level as their competition in the world cup. We're preparing to beat Barmuda, not India and/or Srilanka.

believ it or not we are in the same level as zimbo's may be a little high but not anywhere near to the top 8. chk the ranking score. let me know when your high hopes on bd crashes...

Fazal
December 8, 2006, 01:52 PM
Unless they can find a stronger team to play with (which is very unlikely), the best thing they can do before WC2007 is create team-a and team-b and let them play 7 ODI series.

FaridpurChicago
December 8, 2006, 01:55 PM
Hello P_C,

I'm not against playing big guys. If BCB can arrange then I'm as happy as you are. But at the same time I'm against taking BCCI like approach 'No point against playing BD'.
BCB can arrange domestic practice at any time and that's solely depending on their wish list.

SS
December 8, 2006, 01:56 PM
I would request to modify the title of the post as it sounds rude to other visitors of this site. We are all great fan of BD cricket, but there are also visitors from other countries that come often to this site. They should not get a wrong impression about our cricket values, our friendliness. Thank you for understanding.
But I agree with OP that we need to play more 'competitive' cricket before worldcup.
Thanks.

pagol-chagol
December 8, 2006, 01:59 PM
believ it or not we are in the same level as zimbo's may be a little high but not anywhere near to the top 8. chk the ranking score. let me know when your high hopes on bd crashes...

The argument is not about what level we are at compared to Zimbo. The argument is that, it doesn't prepare us to beat India/SriLanka. The top 8 teams playing against each other help them prepare for the world cup. It doesn't matter who loses and (how badly) among them.

pagol-chagol
December 8, 2006, 02:07 PM
Hello P_C,

I'm not against playing big guys. If BCB can arrange then I'm as happy as you are. But at the same time I'm against taking BCCI like approach 'No point against playing BD'.
BCB can arrange domestic practice at any time and that's solely depending on their wish list.

Good point about the BCCI approach. I'd agree with you 100% if we didn't have the World Cup coming up soon. I am all for playing them occasionally. Playing good teams rarely makes us primed for a fall in the world cup. For starters we can't even tell which of our new players are minnow bashers and which are for real. We don't even know the real current form of our players. We can only guess by doing a straight line projection which we shouldn't.

FaridpurChicago
December 8, 2006, 02:10 PM
Preparation of world cup is a relative issue. Our preparation is going towards beating WC participants like Zim.
You wanted to mean only Eng is preparing for world cup title as they are playing against the current champion and rank 1 holder.
So, everyone is playing there warm up against Aussies, where's the link for that schedule?

pagol-chagol
December 8, 2006, 02:15 PM
I think we should go to West Indies one month earlier than most teams and spend time playing their Busta Cup teams. It'll be expansive, but they can get sponsors easily. That will be an invaluable experience.

cricketboy
December 8, 2006, 02:31 PM
The probelm is this series is our batsman have donr almost nothing. They didnt or didnt have the chance to score something like 275-300 in an innings. I would recommend Bd to bat first if they win the toss and bat as if they have a 275 target atleast. Our series loss to Zims also shows we are not so good in bouncy wickets as we are in home. SO we need to improve that too.

Murad
December 8, 2006, 02:34 PM
guys.. austuralia jokhon amader sathe khele.. tokhon ora to kono complain korena.. odher sathe to amra... kichui na.. tobu o to ora amader sathe khele....tobu odher desher manush ra khela ta upobog kore...........

ar amra.. khali complain kori.. shob kichuteii.. ashole eta bangali jaatir..mudra dosh...

ei je.. ekhon bd te politics niye ja hocche.. khali complain r complain.. shob jaigaii complain....

complain chara ki thaka jai na??? our team playing good.. we shud appreciate that...

playing againts any team.. make us prepared.... this series will boost our confidence a level higher..

Spitfire_x86
December 8, 2006, 02:41 PM
guys.. austuralia jokhon amader sathe khele.. tokhon ora to kono complain korena.. odher sathe to amra... kichui na.. tobu o to ora amader sathe khele....tobu odher desher manush ra khela ta upobog kore...........
They don't play 17 matches out of 25 matches against us in a year!!

akabir77
December 8, 2006, 03:39 PM
The argument is not about what level we are at compared to Zimbo. The argument is that, it doesn't prepare us to beat India/SriLanka. The top 8 teams playing against each other help them prepare for the world cup. It doesn't matter who loses and (how badly) among them.
I agree that its not the best preparations for us. but what else you could do? no one is interested to play with us. every one else is thinking just like you. why play bottom team like bd? that won't help us prepare for the WC. So baggers shouldn't demand anything unless they r in a position. got my point?

TheWatcher
December 8, 2006, 03:43 PM
Zim sucks. Period. Our players are missing valuable match practice not playing in the Premier League. The games between Khulna division and Sylhet division would help them prepare for the World cup better. Wake up. I mean, go to sleep. This is a pointless series.
Chill out P-C, there will be two months in between the Scotlanad series and the time the team leave for the Caribbean, it is less likely that our players will miss any "valuable" premier league match (you know that Dhaka premier league has not started yet, right ?).

Have not Zimbabwe beaten a strong A-team beginning of the tour ? How their standard suddenly fell even below that of our NCL teams ?

TheWatcher
December 8, 2006, 03:45 PM
I agree that its not the best preparations for us. but what else you could do? no one is interested to play with us. every one else is thinking just like you. why play bottom team like bd? that won't help us prepare for the WC. So baggers shouldn't demand anything unless they r in a position. got my point?
I think I got it :joy:

reyme
December 8, 2006, 03:54 PM
IMHO this is a great series for BD. Until the series win against ZIM last year the team did not even know what a win taste like. The team was just dying for a single ODI win. Since the win against IND and AUS, our players now believe that they can now compete against big teams. But still this team has such a long way to go to compete agianst elite 6 teams, that it is actually insane to think this series is useless. Dont forget BD got humiliated against #8 team WI in the Challenge cup just 2 months ago!

reyme
December 8, 2006, 04:01 PM
They don't play 17 matches out of 25 matches against us in a year!!

Is BD playing 17/25 matches aganist Nepal or something?
Will BD stand any real chance against ENG? Really?
Look everbody wants to play better teams, because they will gain something out of it.
Soon BD will play elite teams in the WC. But to prepare for the WC this is the best series BD can have.

Did BD gain something amazing by 10 wickets loss to WI just few weeks ago?
Those matches will destroy their confidence. At least from this series the team is gaining confidence and players are learing how to win from easy/tough situations. The win by 26 runs against ZIM was far more superior learning experience than that of the 10 wicket loss against WI.

reyme
December 8, 2006, 04:08 PM
I think we should go to West Indies one month earlier than most teams and spend time playing their Busta Cup teams. It'll be expansive, but they can get sponsors easily. That will be an invaluable experience.

I think this is a good solution to prepare in the bouncy wicket, considering we have a tight management to keep players under control. West Indies is a lucrative island place with lots of real temptation for the guys.

I would say open up foreign players quota in the premier league, simulate or prepare bouncy pitches like WI, and let the national players compete at the highest level. Clubs will have quality 3-5 foreign players in each team testing the national players to the extreme.

Thunder
December 8, 2006, 04:18 PM
Playing against Zimbabwe or Scotland isn't helping us at all.. Our batting is still a big problem. Our batsmans were exposed when they were send to bat first in the 3rd odi. We're allout against the weakest bowling attack available.

Besides playing against a weaker team gives us a wrong idea about our weaknesses. In the past, i've examined one thing closely that, whatever team plays against us does well but when they move onto next series and plays a stronger opposition they always falter and it takes sometime to recover. The same thing goes with us as it seems to me that more tough times ahead of us.. :timeout:

reyme
December 8, 2006, 04:35 PM
Whats the point playing against the toughest bowling then if you cant even survive the weakest one? Dont you think people make progress one step at a time? I really think after this series when BD play against SL or IND, the players will be much more confident.

Spitfire_x86
December 8, 2006, 05:00 PM
Look everbody wants to play better teams, because they will gain something out of it. Soon BD will play elite teams in the WC. But to prepare for the WC this is the best series BD can have.
This time there's no World Cup for us. The new schedule has reduced it to a 1 round quadrangular tournament for minnows.

Did BD gain something amazing by 10 wickets loss to WI just few weeks ago?
Those matches will destroy their confidence. At least from this series the team is gaining confidence and players are learing how to win from easy/tough situations. The win by 26 runs against ZIM was far more superior learning experience than that of the 10 wicket loss against WI.
Yes, we did. We learned that we are not going anywhere with playing these meaningless ODIs against Zimbabwe/Kenya. How can big matches destroy our confidence when we doesn't have any to begin with? Winning against Zim/Ken isn't sharpening our players neither in terms of ability nor mindset. In ICCCT, they went straight back to the age process of fighting for "honorable defeat". So far whatever progress we had since getting test status has come through playing against tough teams. Rembmber the ICC Trophy 97 to Test status days, when we used to play very few matches against big teams. Our progress was basically zero.

Pundit
December 8, 2006, 05:13 PM
Considering the outcome of the series against Zimbabwe, I am really getting concerned with things to come. :)

I sincrely hope we can sneek in a 5 match one-day series against some other team by February. Can we not promise Shoaib Akhtar some free Nandoline and have him hang out with us? Ofcourse, as long as he does not distribute it to our players.

Murad
December 8, 2006, 05:53 PM
well we are not a top team yet..so amra amader moto jara..tader satheii khelte hobe.. and then we can learn something.. top team er sathe khele khele sudhu haar ar haar.. then ja ektu confidence ache ta o chole jabe..

Omio
December 8, 2006, 06:10 PM
not 100% true,

reyme
December 8, 2006, 06:18 PM
Spitty, so matches against ZIM is not BIG? Didn't this team just lost the away series 2-3 in a condition which will be similar to West Indies pitches in WC? The way I see is, given a neutral place and pitch BD-ZIM will be fairly close, with BD of course going as favourites.

I remember clearly there were few situations against elite teams when BD got a chance to win, but lack of experience was the reason for their loss even from a winning positions (think test against Pakistan). Cricket pundits says, BD does not know how to WIN as a team, hard or easy situations. Well now after this series at least they know a little. Playing against big teams are always important, I dont disagree on that. But there is more to that to become a complete team.

Bashar himself explained, for the first time he is observing an extereme desire for kill among players to beat the opponents, as how the players are indeed shaping up as a team, as how they are making progress in every dept, as how the top order/opening slots are settling down. Goodness, before this series we did not even have a stable opening pair. This is the best series BD has ever had to get the basics straight!

Dont worry, BD will play many games in the next few months against all elite teams. And this time with more confidence. Unfortunately many of us have failed to see the true value of this series. 2 years down the road players will look back and be thankful that they played this series.

Going back to the topic, As far as the WC is concerned, accept it or not, BD posses hardly any chance against IND or SL, even if would have played a series against one of the elite teams. BD will be eliminated just like they did in the Champions Trophy 2 months ago. But IMHO, they will deliver better results.

sunniath
December 8, 2006, 09:03 PM
winning always gives confidence.new comers are getting the chance to settle down,which will definitely help them playing their natural games in wc

Murad
December 8, 2006, 09:14 PM
exactly!

cleazer
December 9, 2006, 12:03 AM
Most of the series are one sided now a days.
Right, and don't complain when you're on the right side of a one-sided series.

It's important for Bangladesh to establish their team as clearly better than Zimbabwe. Knowing that they're better than Zimbabwe will give them an extra bit of confidence against the likes of India and Sri Lanka.

sunny747
December 9, 2006, 12:47 AM
i party agree with pagol-chagol........if we hadn't not played against zim then we would have never known our ability at the first place....now we know there is a vast difference....but no match against the tough team b4 the world cup i think it's pathetic...BCB has to take the fault....they couldn't manage any..whereas other teams are contantly playing cricket.....

Spitfire_x86
December 9, 2006, 08:46 AM
I remember clearly there were few situations against elite teams when BD got a chance to win, but lack of experience was the reason for their loss even from a winning positions (think test against Pakistan). Cricket pundits says, BD does not know how to WIN as a team, hard or easy situations. Well now after this series at least they know a little. Playing against big teams are always important, I dont disagree on that. But there is more to that to become a complete team.
We can't win mainly because of our poor skill level. And there's huge difference between winning against big teams, and winning against minnows. Against Zim/Ken they know that they're playing against a weaker/on par team. When they go back to playing against big teams, the negative attitude comes back. If we're more confident against minnows than before, it's due to our upset victories/few good performances against big teams.

When we have players with necessary skill, they'll eventually find out how to win regularly against big teams. 3rd and 5th ODI of this series showed that these matches aren't doing anything to increase skill. Today a bowler who was semi-regular in the former full-strength Zimbabwe ODI side triggered a batting collapse.

Cricket Crazy
December 9, 2006, 10:26 AM
i think playing against ZIM boosts our confidence. right?