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babubangla
February 15, 2007, 04:41 PM
There was a time when we used to consider it a success to play out the 50-over quota and score 170 to 180 runs. Khaled Masud Pilot was a critical batsman for those days: He kept his wicket intact, played enormous number of balls and took Bangladesh to 180’s on numerous occasions. Still these days, he plays the same role by taking the score to a “not so horrible” level. But the problem is: we are no longer happy with “not so horrible” scores. We do not see any difference between 150 all out and 180/9. We do not want our players to achieve an honorable defeat. Instead we want players to take charge and change match situation even under crisis and pressure.

Let’s have a look at Pilot’s batting in last 8 months. When we needed Pilot to do big hitting, his service was not available even against the minnows. When we needed him to stay in wicket and keep the score moving- he did so by taking the team to the same old honorable defeat zone. His slogging skill is no longer available. His defensive game is made of just blocking balls.

Here is a match diary of Pilot’s batting performance during 6 to 8 months:

December 5, 2006. Bangladesh was batting first in the day-night match against Zimbabwe. Pilot came to bat when the score is 138 at the loss of 5 wickets. 17 more over to go. He needed to stay in the wicket without slowing down the score board and rotate the strike until it’s was time to slog. He stayed in the wicket alright: for 29 minutes, played 28 balls and was bowled out for 11 at the 42nd over. The scored slowed down and his strike rate was only 39%.

October 11, 2006. Bangladesh was struggling against West Indies. The score was 107/5 at 24th over. Lot more overs to go. Typical situation for Pilot. Mission is the same. Keep the wicket intact and rotate strike. But he does it in his own fashion: keep the wicket, waste the balls and take score to typical 160s or 180s. Pilot was 22 not out playing 59 balls and strike rate was 37%.

October 7, 2006. Bangladesh was chasing 302 against Sri Lanka. Pilot came to bat when the score was 141 for 5 in 28th over. Run rate was alright. Mission was to stay in the wicket and maintain the run rate until it’s time to slog. Pilot failed: he was out within 8 balls.

August 13, 2006. Bangladesh was chasing only 184 against Kenya. Batting collapsed and score was 85/5 in 20th over when Pilot came to bat. Team needed only 100 runs in 30 over. Ideal situation for Pilot to keep his wicket intact without worrying about run rate. Pilot failed: played 45 balls and was out for 13 in 37th over when Bangladesh was still struggling for 134/8. At last Mashrafee played the role that Pilot needed to play to take Bangladesh home.

August 4, 2006. Bangladesh was batting against Zimbabwe. Pilot came to bat in 34th over when the team score was 137/5. Pilot needed to stay in wicket, keep rotating the strike and take the team in a position to slog. But Pilot went with the flow and lost his wicket for 20 runs in 38 balls. He took the team to the slogging stage, but failed to maintain an acceptable run rate. His strike rate was around 50% and did not include even a single boundary.

August 2, 2006. Bangladesh was batting against Zimbabwe. When Pilot came to bat, Bangladesh was 179/5 in 34 over and the score moving along nice with more than 5 runs an over. Pilot needed to keep his wicket intact, maintain the scoring rate and take the team into the slogging stage. Pilot failed: he lost his wicket for 11 and wasted 33 balls for that. Strike rate was 33%.

July 30, 2006. Bangladesh was batting against Zimbabwe. Team score was 76/5 in 20 over. Pilot needed to stay in the wicket and keep the scoreboard moving. He did a good job this time: scored 48 not out in 77 balls. Strike rate was 62%.

All we talked about is Pilot’s batting. What about his wicket-keeping?
We got to remember, a bowler faces the opponent’s batsman. A batsman faces the opponent’s bowler. But a wicket-keeper always faces the bowlers of his own team. So, quality of the opponent team is not that important for a wicket-keeper as it is for a bowler or batsman. Therefore, if Mushfiqur Rahim performs well behind the stumps against Zimbabwe, there is no reason for him to perform the same against bigger opponents. So, all comes down to question of batting skills where Pilot leaves us a lot more to desire.

Miraz
February 15, 2007, 04:49 PM
Good post, babu bhai. From your analysis it's clear Pilot has lost his touch in batting since July 2006. I am quite sure if you go back, you will find more instances where he failed to deliver.

Even if we agree it's July 2006. It's 7 months time, long time considering the fact that Bangladesh is going into the world cup and need at least two win to make it to the second round. A more capable batsman as wicketkeeper is always better choice in such situation.

sadi
February 15, 2007, 04:50 PM
Great work BB Bhai.

cricket_pagol
February 15, 2007, 04:58 PM
As usual... great post by babubangla bhai!!!

Rubu
February 15, 2007, 05:21 PM
I just hope selectors does not bring him in from the pressure of different people.

akabir77
February 15, 2007, 05:52 PM
Ki kon bhai apnara prothom-alo porley to money hoy bangladesh worldcup jitto kintu pilot key doley na noya sheta hochey na
1. Three selectors r OBHANCHITO in ranjshahi
2. Daily star posted some letters where most of them where angry and unhappy and thinks he is the best keeper in the world.
3. People r saying no pilot no worldcup.

I am confused should i believe my brain or to their CHillachilli...

Mohiul
February 15, 2007, 06:01 PM
Thanks for your presentation. I think it will rightly serve the demand of recent times & will help calming down the environment.

Murad
February 15, 2007, 06:03 PM
Look at the scores of K Mashud Against Australia in April 2006 in Bangladesh

MATCH 1:::: HE SCORED 27 (35 BALLS) SR: 77.14
MATCH 2:::: HE SCORED 36 (62 BALLS) SR: 58.06
MATCH 3:::: HE SCORED 11 (30 BALLS) SR: 36.66 EVERYONE DID BAD THAT DAY..

HE AVERAGED: 24.66 IN THAT SERIES WITH AVEVERAGE STRIKE RATE OF 58.27

LINKS

MATCH 1: http://www.******.com/scorecard_odi.php?odi=2365

MATCH 2: http://www.******.com/scorecard_odi.php?odi=2366

MATCH 3: http://www.******.com/scorecard_odi.php?odi=2367

billah
February 15, 2007, 06:05 PM
Good post, babu bhai. From your analysis it's clear Pilot has lost his touch in batting since July 2006. I am quite sure if you go back, you will find more instances where he failed to deliver.

Even if we agree it's July 2006. It's 7 months time, long time considering the fact that Bangladesh is going into the world cup and need at least two win to make it to the second round. A more capable batsman as wicketkeeper is always better choice in such situation.

Hmmm.. Miraz, the mystery deepens. "A more capable batsman"...

How does Mushfiqur Rahim fit that category in the instance? He simply does not have the credentials of " A more capable batsman". So, possibilties:

1. You have someone else in mind. Who is it?

Or,

2. You want Mushfiq to turn into your specialist batsman during Bangladesh teams World Cup matches.

Well, I don't think World Cup matches are the right event for batting practice. Overall, all the other teams are picking players that have already done their batting practice in other matches. This could really put your logic in a pickle.

Ajfar
February 15, 2007, 06:27 PM
bhai era hogol lee..hunen..jaa hobar too hoia geche..aie sob loia torko koira kono kaj hoibo naa..karon ami koimu...pilot er dorkar nai..arekjon koibo dorkar ace...kew to ar kew er kotha manbo naa... er chaitee chup chap boia jikir koren..ar dekhen amader rajsahi bhaira ki bebosta koren...

Miraz
February 15, 2007, 07:15 PM
Hmmm.. Miraz, the mystery deepens. "A more capable batsman"...

How does Mushfiqur Rahim fit that category in the instance?

Whatever he offered so far is way better than our current Pilot.

Let's have a look,

<table><tbody><tr><td colspan="8">Mushfiqur Rahim
First-Class Career Batting and Fielding (2004/05-2006/07)</td></tr> <tr><td>
</td><td>M</td><td>I</td><td>NO</td><td>Runs</td><td>HS</td><td>Ave</td><td>100</td><td>50</td><td>SRate</td><td>Ct</td><td>St</td></tr> <tr><td>Overall</td><td>14</td><td>24</td><td>4</td><td>599</td><td>115*</td><td>29.95 </td><td>2</td><td>3</td><td>41.48 </td><td>24</td><td>1</td></tr> </tbody></table> <hr> <table> <colgroup> <col width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> </colgroup> <tbody><tr><td colspan="8">One-Day International Career Batting and Fielding (2006-2006/07)</td></tr> <tr><td>
</td><td>M</td><td>I</td><td>NO</td><td>Runs</td><td>HS</td><td>Ave</td><td>100</td><td>50</td><td>SRate</td><td>Ct</td><td>St</td></tr> <tr><td>Bangladesh</td><td>9</td><td>6</td><td>1</td><td>151</td><td>57</td><td>30.20 </td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>55.92 </td><td>7</td><td>3</td></tr> </tbody></table> <hr> <table> <colgroup> <col width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> </colgroup> <tbody><tr><td colspan="8">One-Day Career Batting and Fielding (2004/05-2006/07)</td></tr> <tr><td>
</td><td>M</td><td>I</td><td>NO</td><td>Runs</td><td>HS</td><td>Ave</td><td>100</td><td>50</td><td>Ct</td><td>St</td></tr> <tr><td>Overall</td><td>20</td><td>15</td><td>3</td><td>346</td><td>58</td><td>28.83 </td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>15</td><td>8</td></tr> </tbody></table> <hr>
<hr>
<hr> <table> <colgroup> <col width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> </colgroup> <tbody><tr><td colspan="8">Youth Test Career Batting and Fielding (2004)</td></tr> <tr><td>
</td><td>M</td><td>I</td><td>NO</td><td>Runs</td><td>HS</td><td>Ave</td><td>100</td><td>50</td><td>SRate</td><td>Ct</td></tr> <tr><td>Bangladesh Under-19s</td><td>3</td><td>5</td><td>1</td><td>127</td><td>88</td><td>31.75 </td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>42.05 </td><td>3</td><td>
</td></tr> </tbody></table> <hr> <table><colgroup> <col width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> <col align="right" width="80"> </colgroup> <tbody><tr><td colspan="8">Youth One-Day International Career Batting and Fielding (2005/06)</td></tr> <tr><td>
</td><td>M</td><td>I</td><td>NO</td><td>Runs</td><td>HS</td><td>Ave</td><td>100</td><td>50</td><td>SRate</td><td>Ct</td><td>St</td></tr> <tr><td>Bangladesh Under-19s</td><td>18</td><td>16</td><td>4</td><td>432</td><td>78*</td><td>36.00 </td><td>0</td><td>3</td><td>71.28 </td><td>20</td><td>13</td></tr></tbody></table>

PoorFan
February 15, 2007, 07:36 PM
Babubangla, nice post & analysis, please send it to Daily Star.

layperson
February 15, 2007, 07:52 PM
BB Bhai may I suggest you email this to DS sports editor. The DS is publishing "novels" about Pilot's importance and the ex players are sucking upto him like he is Tareque Zia and BNP is in power.The general people some of whom are tooo dumb to figure this out needs to read this and I suggest you send it to DS as a letter to the sports editor. If they dont put this up in the letters section at least then we all will start sending emails to DS to be more neutral. The way the papers and journalists are behaving seems like they are very biased in their reporting about the pilot incident or maybe creating a sensation out of this will enable them to sell themselves more than just lauding the selectors which is why they are doing what they are doing now.
Three cheers to BB for his hard work in digging up the dirt.

layperson
February 15, 2007, 07:52 PM
Ohh man Poor fan ami apnar post nah dekhei amar post likhlam. I guess great minds think alike. :)

billah
February 15, 2007, 08:08 PM
Whatever he offered so far is way better than our current Pilot.

So, now I see where your confusion is. Clearly, your thought process has reached a limit when you decided:

Having better average than Pilot's is proof positive of a "Capable Batsman". Wow! Really?

Let's expand that logic:

Rana should be included instead of Ashraful
Mehrab Jr. Should replace Tamim, and, and...
Javed Omar should replace Habibul !

Brilliant ! Boy them numbers ! They never lie...using that argument, heck, we can easily put Nannu back in the team. And, and.. oh our Shahriar Nafees is actually better than both Tendulkar and Inzamam !

Why this would be like, sitting in the selection commitee room in Navana Tower, looking at 30 pieces of papers with numbers on them. The team would look very peculiar, man !

cricketboy
February 15, 2007, 08:14 PM
So, now I see where your confusion is. Clearly, your thought process has reached a limit when you decided:

Having better average than Pilot's is proof positive of a "Capable Batsman". Wow! Really?

Let's expand that logic:

Rana should be included instead of Ashraful
Mehrab Jr. Should replace Tamim, and, and...
Javed Omar should replace Habibul !

Brilliant ! Boy them numbers ! They never lie...using that argument, heck, we can easily put Nannu back in the team. And, and.. oh our Shahriar Nafees is actually better than both Tendulkar and Inzamam !

Why this would be like, sitting in the selection commitee room in Navana Tower, looking at 30 pieces of papers with numbers on them. The team would look very peculiar, man !

I agree with you 100%. Mushfique has never EVER PLAYED AGAINST ANY TEAM EXCEPT SCOTLAND AND ZIMBABWE.

RazabQ
February 15, 2007, 08:26 PM
Billah, forget the numbers. Do your eyes tell you, based on watching matches for the last year or so that Pilot will do a better job of batting than Mushy in the WC? Yes or No?

Nice post BB.

layperson
February 15, 2007, 08:36 PM
So, now I see where your confusion is. Clearly, your thought process has reached a limit when you decided:

Having better average than Pilot's is proof positive of a "Capable Batsman". Wow! Really?

Let's expand that logic:

Rana should be included instead of Ashraful
Mehrab Jr. Should replace Tamim, and, and...
Javed Omar should replace Habibul !

Brilliant ! Boy them numbers ! They never lie...using that argument, heck, we can easily put Nannu back in the team. And, and.. oh our Shahriar Nafees is actually better than both Tendulkar and Inzamam !

Why this would be like, sitting in the selection commitee room in Navana Tower, looking at 30 pieces of papers with numbers on them. The team would look very peculiar, man !

Billah bhai, forget numbers for a second. I am assuming you have seen Mushfique bat. Just from what you have seen of Mushfique and Pilot's batting, do you honestly think that Pilot is a better batsman than Mushfique? If your answer is a yes then I will be extremely disappointed. Pilot is only good for eating up balls and keeping one end blocked without losing his wicket when he is in form. At other times when he is out of form like now there is nothing his batting has to offer. Earlier when Bangladesh were starting out PIlots's batting suited us because we were looking for respectable losses and a respectable score when we went out to bat first. As the team is evolving, we need to move on with it and realize that Pilot just does not fit in this team anymore. There is no point is basking in old glory that Pilot was this and that. The situations back then were different and most importantly he is a complete non performer with the bat currently. We cannot afford to have a burden in the team who just keeps wicket and virtually has no contribution with the bat.

I dont think you would be one of those who would want both keepers to go to the world cup since that is a recipe for disaster. So I will not go into why that is not a choice like some other members are trying to say.

The selectors are doing a fabulous job I think and they at least had the guts to make these changes which were very required in addition to making a few blunders like JO but I can overlook that because dropping PIlot was the single most important decision that they have taken so far in 2007. This will take our team forward for sure and believe me we all will see it. I will still be here after the world cup inshAllah and I would love to see the comments people have for Mushfique then.

layperson
February 15, 2007, 08:38 PM
RazabQ, we seem to have said the same thing in our post. My post being lengthy took time to write. Yet again great minds think alike I guess. :)

pagol-chagol
February 15, 2007, 08:47 PM
Would you please email this to Daily Star?

kalpurush
February 15, 2007, 09:09 PM
billah bhai: It's time for all of us to support the team what we have now. Please help our players to boost morale high and hope for the best. Upner proti aamer ehaie binito anurudh!:)

billah
February 15, 2007, 09:23 PM
Billah bhai, forget numbers for a second. I am assuming you have seen Mushfique bat. Just from what you have seen of Mushfique and Pilot's batting, do you honestly think that Pilot is a better batsman than Mushfique? If your answer is a yes then I will be extremely disappointed. Pilot is only good for eating up balls and keeping one end blocked without losing his wicket when he is in form. At other times when he is out of form like now there is nothing his batting has to offer. Earlier when Bangladesh were starting out PIlots's batting suited us because we were looking for respectable losses and a respectable score when we ....

Shahriyar: I NEVER claimed that Pilot is better or worse than Mushfiq. Reason: There is not substantial amount of data to make the comparison. Some other bc members also are making similar assumption by mistake.

Battingwise, comparing Pilot with Mushfiq is very much like comparing an apple with a three-quarter wingnut. To describe:

Appple:
http://www.wpclipart.com/food/fruit/apple/apple_7.png

three-quarter wingnut:
http://www.cbliss.com/inventor/Parts/Fasteners/ForgedWingNut.jpg

As you can see, they are two different things.

Humor aside, when you want to talk about Masud's batting, his performance, his unorthodox behavior, you must also show me that, you have a sound sense of our cricket's turbulant history.

Another example to illustrate my point: Miraz, in another thread, wrote a paragraph about Pilot's performance in the last world cup. Well, y'know, you can easily dig out news and numbers about our last world cup and write in detail about it. The only thing that tells me is Miraz probably recently has grown a passing interest in cricket. It's obvious he is unaware of the deep quagmire we were already in, before sending in our team to the WC. We were trained by the Paki tweedle dee and tweedle dumb. We went in with our shoulders already hung low. Heck, it was so depressing, that, when our team landed at the airport, a mysterious dark cloud appeared in the sky over their heads, hovering over them, following them everywhere...

Point is, it is easy to get lost in numbers. It is easy to paint a picture with data, even data without relevancy. It is easy to forget about the value of the abstract. That is why God has given us a wonderful thing:

Commonsense.

People are born with this innate capability. If they see something odd, for example...say.... Ajit Agarkar is flying in the air just by flapping his enormous ears;
an alarm goes off in their heads: "Hey ! That ain't right ! Just because Agarkar has large, flappy ears, that doesn't make him a bird !"

Again, Agarkar:
http://in.rediff.com/cricket/2001/oct/29agar.jpg

Bird:
http://www.myfavoritethings.tv/gifts/graphics/furniture/breezy_singers/yellow%20warbler%20bird.jpg


Same thing with this selection: people are saying, "Hey, that's odd... how do you come to this conclusion? Mushfiq, heck, he doesn't even have big, flappy ears !"

Anyways. Hope you understand. Thanks. :)

ottawaGuy
February 15, 2007, 10:06 PM
I agree with the bangladeshi selectors on the rahim deillema(would've fancied having a backup keeper in the side as well). But mind you, I am with pilot too! this guy's had too many significant contributions to have been treated the way he's been. There are a lot of "maybes" and "could've been"s i could argue about the topic right now- but there's no use in that now!

I don't know if pilot (in his current form) is an asset or a setback to the bangladesh team, but I would request anyone and everyone (pilot fan or not) to click on the link below as a means of venerating this great figure in bangladesh cricket who has been with us ever since that day when we all had our ears glued up against the radio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFVbc5Cxaog

I really hope mushfiq shines this WC. If thats so then it might even be the end of the "unreplaceable". At the same time I expect devout youngsters such as myself to look back to these crucial figures of bangladesh cricket and- well- Appreciate! Amen..

layperson
February 15, 2007, 10:37 PM
Billah Bhai I cannot agree with your statement that it is not possible to compare Mushfique with Pilot in terms of batting. If this was the case then you could not compare any batsman with one another. But the main thing I wanted to show you was that even by looking at their batting any person who knows about batting would be able to say that Mushfique is a much better batter than Pilot and that is the answer I expected from you as well. Agreed that Mushfique has not played against top teams but for sure he will be more successful against them than Pilot. You can just wait for the WC matches and find out. If this is not the case then I will think that I do not understand cricket at all. However "success" is a very tricky term and it all boils down to perspective. If mushfique does not waste balls like PIlot does and scores a decent 30 in the world cup I would call him more successful than Pilot.( thats how bad Pilot is)

cricket_king
February 15, 2007, 11:37 PM
Look at the scores of K Mashud Against Australia in April 2006 in Bangladesh

MATCH 1:::: HE SCORED 27 (35 BALLS) SR: 77.14
MATCH 2:::: HE SCORED 36 (62 BALLS) SR: 58.06
MATCH 3:::: HE SCORED 11 (30 BALLS) SR: 36.66 EVERYONE DID BAD THAT DAY..

HE AVERAGED: 24.66 IN THAT SERIES WITH AVEVERAGE STRIKE RATE OF 58.27

LINKS

MATCH 1: http://www.******.com/scorecard_odi.php?odi=2365

MATCH 2: http://www.******.com/scorecard_odi.php?odi=2366

MATCH 3: http://www.******.com/scorecard_odi.php?odi=2367

Are u suggesting that an average of 24.66 with a strike rate of 58.27 shows sign of a good player? :confused:

Beamer
February 15, 2007, 11:49 PM
Great stuff babubangla !

Daily Star has dissapointed me massively since Pilot's non-inclusion. They have never backed up their position with any written arguements for the non-inclusion. If they had done so, I would have at least put forth some counter arguements simmilar to what babubangla has aptly shown. You can't reason with someone who doesn't know what it is !Instead, they have taken a cheap populist position and now have resorted to publishing garbage, tired, old opinions of bonehead fans. I understand they like Pilot very much. So, do we, for what he has done over the years. But, there comes a time when the writing is all over the wall, and if you don't see, then I guess nothing would matter. I have completely lost respect for the sports editor of Daily Star and Prothom-alo. Never thought that would happen.

Shahriyar...saw your post on DS today. Good plug for BC..yeh??

al Furqaan
February 15, 2007, 11:49 PM
billah bhai,

mushfiq is a better batsman than mashud. and even now, with all the pressures of WC on an 18 year old, young mushy can give us at least what pilot can. thats not to say that we are guranteed that mushy will have success. but the only thing we are losing with mushy in, pilot out is experience. and frankly pilot's experience, however vast, is not going to make a world of difference to our team.

pilot is not a captain, top order batsman, key bowler, or star performer...he has virtually no experience that would drastically alter a game.

and mushy's keeping is much better than people think. he may be a better keeper and a better batsman than pilot right now.

it was a good decision to let pilot go.

layperson
February 16, 2007, 12:16 AM
Great stuff babubangla !

Daily Star has dissapointed me massively since Pilot's non-inclusion. They have never backed up their position with any written arguements for the non-inclusion. If they had done so, I would have at least put forth some counter arguements simmilar to what babubangla has aptly shown. You can't reason with someone who doesn't know what it is !Instead, they have taken a cheap populist position and now have resorted to publishing garbage, tired, old opinions of bonehead fans. I understand they like Pilot very much. So, do we, for what he has done over the years. But, there comes a time when the writing is all over the wall, and if you don't see, then I guess nothing would matter. I have completely lost respect for the sports editor of Daily Star and Prothom-alo. Never thought that would happen.

Shahriyar...saw your post on DS today. Good plug for BC..yeh??


Well I just wanted them to know that there are fans all over the world who support and welcome the selector's decision in case they havent seen it already in BC. The way they have been writing about this incident is disappointing to say the least. It was all one sided which is why I encouraged BB to send this to DS. BB if you dont have the time then I have a friend who works for DS. I can email this to him with your permission offcourse and taking all the credits for the writing myself. :p

billah
February 16, 2007, 01:15 AM
Billah Bhai I cannot agree with your statement that it is not possible to compare Mushfique with Pilot in terms of batting.

Pilot: 126 matches, 3315 balls faced. Runs scored: 1818
Rahim: 9 matches, 269 balls faced. Runs scored: 151

Please refere to the picture of the apple and the three-quarter wingnut in my previous post. Case closed.

If this was the case then you could not compare any batsman with one another.

Not so. I can compare Tendulkar and Inzamam. Both scored 10,000 runs in ODI in the same era. Very comparable.

But the main thing I wanted to show you was that even by looking at their batting any person who knows about batting would be able to say that Mushfique is a much better batter than Pilot and that is the answer I expected from you as well. Agreed that Mushfique has not played against top teams but for sure he will be more successful against them than Pilot. You can just wait for the WC matches and find out. If this is not the case then I will think that I do not understand cricket at all.

If I were to compare Rahim and Pilot as batsmen, I would be taking the same risk you are taking on your reputation :)

However "success" is a very tricky term and it all boils down to perspective. If mushfique does not waste balls like PIlot does and scores a decent 30 in the world cup I would call him more successful than Pilot.( thats how bad Pilot is)

I wish Mushfiq every success. But, for the heck of it, let's save this moment and these comments. It would backfire on our face if he flops. Under pressure, Mushfiq flopped badly. Not once, several times. For a young cricketer his age, it's natural he would fumble under pressure. In time, he will adjust well. He will probably be one of our best middle order bat.

But, letting him use our world cup matches to practice for that, while our real wicketkeeper sits home? It's just bad judgement. Regardless of what kind of consensus the number-crunchers build in favor of it.

billah
February 16, 2007, 01:28 AM
Billah, forget the numbers. Do your eyes tell you, based on watching matches for the last year or so that Pilot will do a better job of batting than Mushy in the WC? Yes or No?

Nice post BB.

100%
Freakin
Abso-freakin-lutely
no-freakin-doubt-in-my-mind
Yeeeeeeeeeeeesss.

Aside from that, I see you are finally steppin away from those ever-slippery number analysis in Rahim's defense. There is light.... For me, that's one nut down, several more to go..haha...

layperson
February 16, 2007, 01:29 AM
Well if I were to reply to your post then I presume you would do too and it would carry on for sometime. I will come back to this thread after the first round matches of Bangladesh and yes I am willing to put my reputation on the line in terms of my cricketing knowledge as far as Rahim being better than Pilot.

JUst could not resist one thing though. I think you might have misunderstood my post. When I asked you to compare Rahim with Pilot I meant purely from a "watching them bat" point of view, ie looking at their techniques and the ease with which they play shots, the types of shots they have in their arsenal and overall the quality of batting that each has to offer. By showing their stats you have relied on numbers and bought in the experience factor for Pilot. I was only asking for comparison from a purely "batting talent" point of view and the probability of Rahim being better based on his batting abilities which I think is better than PIlot's. In that sense you can compare a Habibul Bashar with Tendulkar even though both dont have the same amount of matches. I hope that made some sense.:)

billah
February 16, 2007, 01:35 AM
I liked that one innings Rahim played in England. I think he needs some muscle on his bones. I saw him in a few other instances. He has the right height. Sorry I missed the Zimbabwe innings but, saw him batting in Bogra. Nothing impressive. I can't just make it up and. In his whole illustrious "career" he hit only nine 4s. Never hit a sixer.

Hmm... the more I think, the more I get that sinking feeling about this poor young chap. If you folks are not careful, you're gonna make a Hannan out of him. He isn't a force of nature that some of us are making him to be.....

Kabir
February 16, 2007, 01:58 AM
Billah bhai: That's playing really safe. Just because there's no info on Pilot's number of 4s and 6s in ODi, you're comparing him with Mushfiq. But here's something you may want to see.

class mat inns no runs hs ave bf sr 100 50 4s 6s ct st
Tests 41 79 9 1361 103* 19.44 3970 34.28 1 3 145 1 75 8

Just one six???? Ouch...that hurt!

Anyway, you can argue all that you want to. But here's the deal. He has made sufficient contributions to the team, but now it's time for new players to take over. He has played 126 ODIs, and scored 1818 valuable runs for us, with a highest of 71*. Thank you for the greatest contribution any cricketer has made for Bangladesh...we can give him a BC medal (gold) and honor him. But please, bringing someone in just based on the merit of his contribution more than a year ago is unacceptable.

By the way, in this case you may want to argue with Ashraful's inclusion, as he hasn't proved anything. I'll tell you this...Ashraful's inclusion isn't something to be excited about in recent year or two. But he at least performed in domestic level. Pilot failed to do even that. Jokes.

RazabQ
February 16, 2007, 02:14 AM
100%
Freakin
Abso-freakin-lutely
no-freakin-doubt-in-my-mind
Yeeeeeeeeeeeesss.guess we'll have to agree to disagree then100%Aside from that, I see you are finally steppin away from those ever-slippery number analysis in Rahim's defense.Go back and check my posts. I never used stats for my justification though they _do_ provide one datapoint. I merely went with what I saw and what I saw jives well with what a WC winning cricket coach and some other smart ppl seem to be seeing (I dare you to call BB a knucklehead - I double dare you :) ) And what I saw was a great player who has lost his physical ability to play the kind of gritty but effective knocks, leaving merely the grit. And in that context, the kid deserves the shot.

billah
February 16, 2007, 03:16 AM
Billah bhai: That's playing really safe. Just because there's no info on Pilot's number of 4s and 6s in ODi, you're comparing him with Mushfiq. But here's something you may want to see.

class mat inns no runs hs ave bf sr 100 50 4s 6s ct st
Tests 41 79 9 1361 103* 19.44 3970 34.28 1 3 145 1 75 8Just one six???? Ouch...that hurt!

Kabir: so, how are you justifying comparing test data with ODI data? I was not putting up data to maliciously distort facts, man.

Anyway, you can argue all that you want to. But here's the deal. He has made sufficient contributions to the team, but now it's time for new players to take over.

Exactly my feeling also. In case you missed it, please read this. Better yet, just go to the front page of your site. :)

http://banglacricket.com/html/article.php?item=438

He has played 126 ODIs, and scored 1818 valuable runs for us, with a highest of 71*. Thank you for the greatest contribution any cricketer has made for Bangladesh...we can give him a BC medal (gold) and honor him. But please, bringing someone in just based on the merit of his contribution more than a year ago is unacceptable.

So, replacing an experienced ODI player with someone that has played 9 matches and scored a total of 151 runs, for the WORLD CUP is acceptable? I suggest you say this out loud several times to yourself. I bet it would sound quite odd.

By the way, in this case you may want to argue with Ashraful's inclusion, as he hasn't proved anything. I'll tell you this...Ashraful's inclusion isn't something to be excited about in recent year or two. But he at least performed in domestic level. Pilot failed to do even that. Jokes.

I'm sure, you missed my point on bringing Ashraful in this. Ash's numbers look bad also. Should we dump him also? After all, we are using the numbers arguments to justify replacing Pilot with Mushfiq? Oh, here's another important fact you forgot here:

Ashraful's job description - Middle Order batsman
Pilot's job description - Wicket keeper

Pilot's club team is not expecting a double century from him every match. He has batted reasonably in the domestic league. Ash needed a double century to get back in the national team. If you wanted Pilot to do the same, you should have told him that about 20 years ago. That way he could also have prepared himself to be a middle order bat, instead of WK.

Cheers. I just hope, sincerely hope and pray that Mushfiq does well both in wicketkeeping and batting.

Miraz
February 16, 2007, 05:24 AM
So, now I see where your confusion is. Clearly, your thought process has reached a limit when you decided:

Having better average than Pilot's is proof positive of a "Capable Batsman". Wow! Really?

Let's expand that logic:

Rana should be included instead of Ashraful
Mehrab Jr. Should replace Tamim, and, and...
Javed Omar should replace Habibul !

Brilliant ! Boy them numbers ! They never lie...using that argument, heck, we can easily put Nannu back in the team. And, and.. oh our Shahriar Nafees is actually better than both Tendulkar and Inzamam !

Why this would be like, sitting in the selection commitee room in Navana Tower, looking at 30 pieces of papers with numbers on them. The team would look very peculiar, man !

Billah bhai, understanding is the most important part of any discussion which you are clearly lacking at least in this case.

You can twist posts, make your own conclusions and try to find some bizarre correlation.

Look at the mirror and I hope you will find the answer.

I don't want to engage in any further debate with you in this matter.

Thank you.

Rabz
February 16, 2007, 07:23 AM
As always... great work BB bhai.

guess we cant get enough of our current fav time pass...
Pilot and his omission from the national team.

But in this one, i think the selectors has done a good job.

Here is my two cents,
To reach the next stage, we have to take our chances..
and im ready to take those chances with Tamim and Mushfiq.

Only time can tell us if we were right or wrong...

Sumon77
February 16, 2007, 07:52 AM
Ashraful's job description - Middle Order batsman
Pilot's job description - Wicket keeper



Sorry to disagree that Pilot's job is only wicket keeping rather than a handy batsman for ODI atleast.


Pilot's club team is not expecting a double century from him every match. He has batted reasonably in the domestic league. Ash needed a double century to get back in the national team. If you wanted Pilot to do the same, you should have told him that about 20 years ago. That way he could also have prepared himself to be a middle order bat, instead of WK.


so, he didnt know that he should be prepared as a good middle order batsman as well? then he definitely missed the changing attitute in the team..

bapzmania
February 16, 2007, 09:28 AM
BB thx for ur wonderful post...

zahid
February 16, 2007, 09:31 AM
MUSHFIQUR RAHIM

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc" height="17"><td class="profiles-stats-data" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">class</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> mat</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> inns</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> no</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> runs</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> hs</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> ave</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> bf</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> sr</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 100</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 50</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 4s</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 6s</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> ct</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> st</td></tr> <tr align="right" valign="top"><td class="profiles-stats-data" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Tests</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 2</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 4</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 0</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 24</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 19</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 6.00</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 85</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 28.23</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 0</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 0</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 3</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 0</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 1</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 0</td></tr> <tr align="right" valign="top"><td class="profiles-stats-data" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">ODIs</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 9</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 6</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 1</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 151</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 57</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 30.20</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 269</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 56.13</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 0</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 1</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 9</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 0</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 7</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 3</td></tr></tbody></table>

PILOT

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc" height="17"><td class="profiles-stats-data" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">class</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> mat</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> inns</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> no</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> runs</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> hs</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> ave</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> bf</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> sr</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 100</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 50</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 4s</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 6s</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> ct</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> st</td></tr> <tr align="right" valign="top"><td class="profiles-stats-data" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Tests</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 41</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 79</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 9</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 1361</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 103*</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 19.44</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 3970</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 34.28</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 1</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 3</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 145</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 1</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 75</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 8</td></tr> <tr align="right" valign="top"><td class="profiles-stats-data" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">ODIs</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 126</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 110</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 27</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 1818</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 71*</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 21.90</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 3315</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 54.84</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 0</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 7</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> </td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> </td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 91</td><td class="profiles-stats-data" nowrap="nowrap"> 35</td></tr></tbody></table>

AVERAGE STRIKE RATE 50's predictability Experience in w.keeping TOTAL
RAHIM 1 1 1 0 3
PILOT 0 1 0 1 2


Rahim wins !


[ 1 = WIN, 0 = LOSS , 1&1 = DRAW ]

arafath79
February 16, 2007, 10:20 AM
Ki kon bhai apnara prothom-alo porley to money hoy bangladesh worldcup jitto kintu pilot key doley na noya sheta hochey na
1. Three selectors r OBHANCHITO in ranjshahi
2. Daily star posted some letters where most of them where angry and unhappy and thinks he is the best keeper in the world.
3. People r saying no pilot no worldcup.

I am confused should i believe my brain or to their CHillachilli...

Kichu lok ache srinkhola bhongokari. Tader mejaj gorm r olpotei uttejito ha pore. Laathi maira thik kora dorkar shalader.

Kabir
February 16, 2007, 10:35 AM
Kabir: so, how are you justifying comparing test data with ODI data? I was not putting up data to maliciously distort facts, man.

I've put that only because Pilot doesn't have any ODI stats on 4s and 6s. But as I expected, you don't seem happy about this. My aplogies.

So, replacing an experienced ODI player with someone that has played 9 matches and scored a total of 151 runs, for the WORLD CUP is acceptable? I suggest you say this out loud several times to yourself. I bet it would sound quite odd.


I wonder why Viv Richards stopped playing cricket. He was more experienced, had more runs, and much older than many of his team-mates. Oh well, too bad...we can't make the same mistake by letting Pilot go. No way.

Ashraful's job description - Middle Order batsman
Pilot's job description - Wicket keeper


And Mushfiq's suggested job description is a wicket-keepter batsman. In case you forgot. Yes, he couldn't prove it yet...but he hasn't played sufficient number of games to prove it yet. And you're comparing his ODI numbers with Pilot's. Why not compare his national level stats with Pilot's. Oh btw...before you do that, do keep in mind that when Pilot started playing at national level, Mushfiq was just a doodher shishu.

And in case you don't know, when numbers aren't comparable in absolute values, they're compared relatively. Mushfiq's experience hasn't reached that level yet to have a relative value...and you seem to be taking advantage of that for proving your numbers.

Pilot's club team is not expecting a double century from him every match. He has batted reasonably in the domestic league. Ash needed a double century to get back in the national team. If you wanted Pilot to do the same, you should have told him that about 20 years ago. That way he could also have prepared himself to be a middle order bat, instead of WK.


Bhaijan, please, you didn't understand what I was saying (possibly deliberately). All I was saying is, taking Pilot's under-performance reason, you could also argue about Ashraful's inclusion...but where did I say they're trying for the same role in the team? But since you brought it up, Mushfiq's inclusion is because of just that...he seems to fit well as a middle-order batsman based on his domestic experience, and U-19 WC experience. If that's not enough, I wonder how can new players come into the team. You're probably bringing that into a "chicken and egg" situation...who came out first, domestic level player? Or International level player? Jokes.

Cheers. I just hope, sincerely hope and pray that Mushfiq does well both in wicketkeeping and batting.


This is the only place where we agree. I'm sure every Bangladeshi supporter should agree on this :)

babubangla
February 16, 2007, 10:51 AM
Pilot is a great wicketkeeper, but his batting was not good enough for an ODI slot.
We will certainly miss his service behind the stumps, but it’s not like that we do not have any wicketkeeper at all. With all that chaos…I seems like we are going to the World Cup without even a single wicketkeeper!!

sar2005
February 16, 2007, 10:52 AM
Super Stuff!! I wonder how did you collect all those records!! I don't see many pro-pilot post in this thread. Pilot-fans are completely stunned, aren't they?

Kabir
February 16, 2007, 10:57 AM
Pilot is a great wicketkeeper, but his batting was not good enough for an ODI slot.
We will certainly miss his service behind the stumps, but it’s not like that we do not have any wicketkeeper at all. With all that chaos…I seems like we are going to the World Cup without even a single wicketkeeper!!

Shukh nai re bhai...shukh nai kisutei. Pilot er support dekhe mone hoche he's more famous and powerful than our Bangabondhu. On crap, we now have to rename Banglabondhu stadium into Pilot Stadium, Bongobondhu Bridge into Pilot Bridge...and what not.

sar2005
February 16, 2007, 10:57 AM
I wonder why Viv Richards stopped playing cricket. He was more experienced, had more runs, and much older than many of his team-mates. Oh well, too bad...we can't make the same mistake by letting Pilot go. No way.


............:p

Tigers_eye
February 16, 2007, 11:00 AM
With what i have seen I can compare the maturity level in batting sense of Mushfiq is better than Bashar. When to take a single; When to go for a four? How to rotate strike. Almost in the same level of Sakib.

LateCut
February 16, 2007, 11:28 AM
I remeber Pilot in tears when he stepped down as the captain. This time he had a little less emotional response. However, he could have been more diplomatic in reacting to his fall from the grace. I am sure there is substance in his public statements. Let me remind you that the team was not selected based on performance alone. If there were so, Ashrafool will have been warming a chair or at best carrying towels and drinks. Nevertheless, Pilot could have said something about is current batting form and a break would give him ths opportunity to straighten things up.

roaring tigerz
February 16, 2007, 12:06 PM
And the Pilot debate runs on and on and on...
I suggest a truce! Everything that could have been said, has been said. Lets start looking for some other scapegoats now. we have 14 other guys, make your pick!

akabir77
February 16, 2007, 12:15 PM
BOTTOM LINE

Pilot is the best batsman and keeper we had but Faruk did politics not to take him just like he did not to take goola and akram last time.

SO I say to the pilot supporters

NA NANA NA NA

Winter doesn't leave in month.... (bangla koira nen)
ATo khothar ki dorker. Hazar chillachilli korleo ora nawa jabey na.. Hi HI..

billah
February 16, 2007, 01:33 PM
I've put that only because Pilot doesn't have any ODI stats on 4s and 6s. But as I expected, you don't seem happy about this. My aplogies.

Your previous post accused me for using information for manipulation purposes. Same here. Not true. Noting will change the fact that Rahim is an inexperienced batsman with very little to his name yet.

I wonder why Viv Richards stopped playing cricket. He was more experienced, had more runs, and much older than many of his team-mates. Oh well, too bad...we can't make the same mistake by letting Pilot go. No way.[/qoute]

Funny, I was using the same argument, when someone else was trying to justify Rahim's inclusion based on averages. The fact is, World Cup matches is not the place for trying out newbies. All the other cricket teams of the world, that may, just by chance, have a little more cricketing knowledge that you and I do, seem to think so.

[quote]And Mushfiq's suggested job description is a wicket-keepter batsman. In case you forgot. Yes, he couldn't prove it yet...but he hasn't played sufficient number of games to prove it yet. And you're comparing his ODI numbers with Pilot's. Why not compare his national level stats with Pilot's. Oh btw...before you do that, do keep in mind that when Pilot started playing at national level, Mushfiq was just a doodher shishu.

Sorry, Kabir. I can see that reading post with an over-excited brain is not your thing. I DO NOT want to compare Pilot's ODI data with Mushfiq. That is what I have been saying here. To make it easy for some to understand, I even used some pictures here. Comparing the ODI data for these two is not a smart thing to do. Please refer to the picture of the red fruit and the metal object above.

And in case you don't know, when numbers aren't comparable in absolute values, they're compared relatively. Mushfiq's experience hasn't reached that level yet to have a relative value...and you seem to be taking advantage of that for proving your numbers.

One very important thing you have said here. "Mushfiq's experience hasn't reached that level yet to have a relative value". Right on the money. While I made myself clear (by even using pictures) that comparing his numbers with that of Pilot is a misdirection, I also say, Mushfiq will gain relative value in time. However, gambling with him in the World Cup is a STUPID decesion by the selectors.

Bhaijan, please, you didn't understand what I was saying (possibly deliberately). All I was saying is, taking Pilot's under-performance reason, you could also argue about Ashraful's inclusion...but where did I say they're trying for the same role in the team? But since you brought it up, Mushfiq's inclusion is because of just that...he seems to fit well as a middle-order batsman based on his domestic experience, and U-19 WC experience. If that's not enough, I wonder how can new players come into the team. You're probably bringing that into a "chicken and egg" situation...who came out first, domestic level player? Or International level player? Jokes.

In the first part here, (right after you called me "bhaijan") you and I are saying the same thing. Please check my other posts. The rest however, is misinformation. Mushfiq isssue is not about coming into the team. You are mixing things up here a bit. I really want Mushfiq in our team. Like you said, how else would a new player come into the team. I also, really want Pilot to be gone from our team.

The problem is about sending a half-boiled Mushfiq in to the world cup(since we're using the egg metaphor :)). It's bad for Mushfiq's career, and definitely a bad decision by the selectors.

So, to summarize:

I support Mushfiq as our national wicket keeper.
I believe in time he may become a very good batsman.
I think it is time for Pilot to go.
I think Mushfiq has not done anything yet to legitimize himself as a batsman.
I think the selectors were grossly wrong to drop Pilot for the world cup matches
I think the world cup matches are not the right place for a newbie to practice.
I think it is bad for Mushfiq. Definitely bad for the team.

I hope you can see where I am coming from. No point arguing when we both agree on so much. Thanks.

reyme
February 16, 2007, 01:33 PM
Apart from the cricketing reasons, everyone knows Pilot is a trouble maker. Last world cup debacle, spent late night in bars outside of the hotels, bringing girl in the hotel rooms, messing up team chemistry by constant argument, poor captaincy resulting team defeats.....the list goes on and on. The only reason the management did not say much since he was not replaceable. Even calls himeself an automatic choice!
Well guess what? It was a payback time, and his door is closed. hopefully forever. BD just proved in ZIM that without Pilot team can move on without problems. If pilot was in that team, he would have messed it up again.

reyme
February 16, 2007, 01:54 PM
So after all this number games, what was the net gain of pilot being in the last world cup, who is the best WK and a better batsman than Mushfiq? A big GOLLA wasn't it?

*+Khaled Mashud c sub (AM Samad) b Davison 1 8 8 0 0 (CAN)
*+Khaled Mashud lbw b Muralitharan 20 88 67 2 0 (SL)
*+Khaled Mashud c Boucher b Ntini 29 77 67 3 0
*+Khaled Mashud c Shah b Obuya 14 61 41 1 0
DNB: Against West Indies

Better batsman than Mushfiq: Think again.
More experience than Mushfiq: more of a nightmarish!
Better keer than Mushfiq: KM just broke his thumb in the league.

billah
February 16, 2007, 02:10 PM
Apart from the cricketing reasons, everyone knows Pilot is a trouble maker

Overly generalized assumption.

Last world cup debacle, spent late night in bars outside of the hotelsGujob

bringing girl in the hotel roomsTotal gujob

messing up team chemistry by constant argumentMore gujob

poor captaincy resulting team defeatsMisinformation.

The only reason the management did not say much since he was not
replaceable

Simply not true.

Even calls himeself an automatic choice!Should have been, for the WC07.

If pilot was in that team, he would have messed it up again.Another grossly generized assumption.

sadi
February 16, 2007, 02:38 PM
Have anyone heard the song "It wasn't me" by Shaggy? Nice song. :)

billah
February 16, 2007, 02:45 PM
So after all this number games, what was the net gain of pilot being in the last world cup, who is the best WK and a better batsman than Mushfiq? A big GOLLA wasn't it?

*+Khaled Mashud c sub (AM Samad) b Davison 1 8 8 0 0 (CAN)
Actually, Pilot contributed in 2 runouts and had 1 stumping. Our batsmen failed there. Obviously you did not watch that match, did you?

*+Khaled Mashud lbw b Muralitharan 20 88 67 2 0 (SL)Bangladesh was all out for 124. A large chunk of the runs came from his bat under pressure. He was one of 3 batsmen that reached 20. Didn't watch that one either?

*+Khaled Mashud c Boucher b Ntini 29 77 67 3 0Once again, Pilot was the top scorer for Bangladesh. Team total was 108. You should have seen him. He hit several fantastic boundaries. The others batsmen were just falling around him.

Pilot's score against New Zealand, which you skipped here, was 35 not out. Again, among the top 3 scores of our team.

*+Khaled Mashud c Shah b Obuya 14 61 41 1 0Saw that one also. Pilot was moved up the order to stabilize the collapse. He did a good job with that. We were in the run almot until the end, hopes vanished with Akram's out.

Masud had the third highest team average in that world cup. He did well, under very bad circumstances.

Better batsman than Mushfiq: Think again. Mushfiq is not a batsman, at least not yet.

More experience than Mushfiq: more of a nightmarish!Start following Bangladesh cricket, we'll talk again in 10 years or so...

Better keer than Mushfiq: KM just broke his thumb in the league. Adam Gilchrist injured himself multiple times, does that make Gilly a bad stumper?

Spitfire_x86
February 16, 2007, 03:43 PM
So, to summarize:

I support Mushfiq as our national wicket keeper.
I believe in time he may become a very good batsman.
I think it is time for Pilot to go.
I think Mushfiq has not done anything yet to legitimize himself as a batsman.
I think the selectors were grossly wrong to drop Pilot for the world cup matches
I think the world cup matches are not the right place for a newbie to practice.
I think it is bad for Mushfiq. Definitely bad for the team.

I hope you can see where I am coming from. No point arguing when we both agree on so much. Thanks.
Just forget that it's "World Cup". This World Cup is not like previous World Cups. With or without Mushfiq/Pilot, it's a 3 match affair for us. Why should it be any different than a 3 match ODI series or a single round quadrangular tournament?

Cricket isn't a World Cup centric game anyway.

reyme
February 16, 2007, 06:39 PM
Billah, if you would have followed the BCB investigation report after the WC, which got leaked through daily star, then you know source as how Pilot was classified as a huge trouble maker. This is not some made up stories, these came out after a 3 month long investigation led by some army personnel and published partially in DS. Just 2 days ago, Prothom-alo itself reported pilot was not punished years ago since BCB did not have alternatives. How come KM got fined just few weeks ago? A true gentleman I see. Everyone knows after last ZIM away series loss created some fuss about KM's poor captaincy. In fact after the WC 2003 have you ever seen KM as a captain or even as a vice captain? If he is so much reliable according to you then why management always wanted to avoid them for a captains post? I will let you justify.
WC2003 was a such a huge nightmare that nobody needs to watch cricket for 10 years to realize that and nobody even wants to bring this up specially if someone was involved in it. Annoucing "Mushfiq as NOT a batsman" is so silly and childish that it takes a total lack of knowledge about the cricketing sense! Mushfiq had a debut as a batsman in Lords, England, not even as a Wicketkeeper, how about KM? Yes he failed to live upto the huge expecattion, but that does not make him a non batsman.

About your reasons trying to show that KM was one of the best performers in the WC2003, one may see KM was not a failure. But hey, have you looked at the team, I mean have you even seen the batsmen who played then? If you put KM in the BD C, D or E team, of course he will be a lead scorer (which I still doubt, KM is not a top 50 batsmen in the country based on his current form and stats), but does it really matter?
Bottom no matter how much useless comparison (applle vs. screw) you bring up, it wont change anything. KM dont deserevd a place in the current team based on his recent form and stats, thus did not get a place in the team. KM knows that very well and hope you will realize that too. People gave you lots of hint.

Niceman70
February 16, 2007, 08:01 PM
thanks..awesome..this thread is an answer to the recently published article by Bishwajit Roy.

here is the link
http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/02/17/d70217040135.htm

pellu
February 16, 2007, 08:19 PM
Apart from the cricketing reasons, everyone knows Pilot is a trouble maker. Last world cup debacle, spent late night in bars outside of the hotels, bringing girl in the hotel rooms, messing up team chemistry by constant argument, poor captaincy resulting team defeats.....the list goes on and on. The only reason the management did not say much since he was not replaceable. Even calls himeself an automatic choice!
Well guess what? It was a payback time, and his door is closed. hopefully forever. BD just proved in ZIM that without Pilot team can move on without problems. If pilot was in that team, he would have messed it up again.
Reyme,
You seem to have a personal vendetta against Pilot. Even people who are arguring supporting his exclusion are showing enough respect for Pilot. Are you a shill for one of our corrupt selectors or are you one of the selectors?

Many of us are very quiet on the forum even though we follow Bangladesh cricket very closely. I remember the days when we used to pray for Bangladesh to cross 100 against teams like India when we got to play them once in a blue moon. I remember how bad our fielding was. I remember one of the matches where one of the bowlers (probably it was Prince, not relevant anyway) threw the ball about 1 foot away from the stamps and it missed the stamps by about 10 feet. That's how bad we have been. People like Pilot, Akram, Chacha and many other have brought us where we are. Hearing kinds of things you had to say about Pilot (even if those are true) made me very sad and I don't think I am the only one to feel that way.

Dhakablues
February 16, 2007, 09:36 PM
Gone are those days when you dont need 180/150.. Why? Because we are playing against Kenya/Zimbabwe/Scottland.
Gone are those days when you dont need anyone to hold the fort? Why? Because you now have one opener who is consistent and 2 better middle order who can score.
So you think having 4 openers which also includes discard like Javed Omar made more sense to a cricket fan?
Do you think that all the ex captains are just dumbos? And some online mag readers are genius in cricket sense?
Do you think that all rest of the world's due process is just stupid and our selectors are super talented that we have one of the best wicketkeeper in the world sitting home?
A batting average difference ( not strike rate, btw) of 8 runs, one being against super minnow who doesnt play test cricket and other being against all giants are comparable?


Once I saw a signature from someone here which read, " Never argue with idiots, As they will bring you down to their level and beat you with their experiece".. I take that advise and refrain from analyzing on this ridiculously pathetic post.

akabir77
February 16, 2007, 10:30 PM
According to inqalab or janakantha pilot reject the offer to play for A team. He sms the selectors saying he had his mind setup for w and now he needs some days of vacation to set his mind straight also he might resign from all sorts of cricket...

I can guarantee he will not resign cause he needs the money and way his character is he wants the other stuff too. so he will play as long as he can...

Farhad
February 16, 2007, 11:13 PM
I just cant believe this....This thread (and a whole lot of others) seems to have become a flat-out bashing of Pilot. I agree he shouldnt be in the team anymore, but give the guy some respect! Just 6 months back, there were no insults to Pilots character, but now, it seems like everybodys jumping on the bandwagon. His career is officially over (unless Mushfiq fails miserably) let him bow out with honour instead of just kicking him when he's down.

I can guarantee he will not resign cause he needs the money and way his character is he wants the other stuff too. so he will play as long as he can...

Murad
February 17, 2007, 01:31 AM
I just cant believe this....This thread (and a whole lot of others) seems to have become a flat-out bashing of Pilot. I agree he shouldnt be in the team anymore, but give the guy some respect! Just 6 months back, there were no insults to Pilots character, but now, it seems like everybodys jumping on the bandwagon. His career is officially over (unless Mushfiq fails miserably) let him bow out with honour instead of just kicking him when he's down.

well said..

akabir77
February 17, 2007, 11:35 AM
I just cant believe this....This thread (and a whole lot of others) seems to have become a flat-out bashing of Pilot. I agree he shouldnt be in the team anymore, but give the guy some respect! Just 6 months back, there were no insults to Pilots character, but now, it seems like everybodys jumping on the bandwagon. His career is officially over (unless Mushfiq fails miserably) let him bow out with honour instead of just kicking him when he's down.


If you go one year you will see my post agianst him. So this is nothing new.. And I didn't invented all this about him. Main thing is the way he is creating presussre with his media and fans on the team its not right. Why r no one is picking on sharif or tusher?
He sold us out in WC03 to KNEYA so don't come here and take his side like he is a dudeh shishu..

In 6 months i will again support him becuse he has done many things for BD but every time WC come the Lojja of WC03 will hunt me for ever.

Any player with a chotak of manshoman should have resigned after that...

Farhad
February 17, 2007, 12:19 PM
So....Let me get this straight:shh: You want to kick him when hes down? If you bothered to read my post, you would have found that I was not supporting Mashud, or his batting ability. I was asking people to show him some respect
becuse he has done many things for BD

by not attacking his personal character. If you cant refrain from doing that, all it will prove is your personal hatred towards Mashud.

zia
February 17, 2007, 02:00 PM
To sum up I don't mind Pilot out of WC team. But simply cannot accept Golla in the team. I really don't know what Faruk Ahmed was thinking when he got Golla in.

akabir77
February 17, 2007, 07:40 PM
So....Let me get this straight:shh: You want to kick him when hes down? If you bothered to read my post, you would have found that I was not supporting Mashud, or his batting ability. I was asking people to show him some respect

by not attacking his personal character. If you cant refrain from doing that, all it will prove is your personal hatred towards Mashud.

No I wanted to kick him when he was up too...

sadi
February 17, 2007, 11:19 PM
I don't agree with the selector's decision to put him in A team. We all know what he can offer and he doesn't need anymore experience playing against England A. He is better off playing in the national league. Now, I am not sure how he declined the offer but I can tell you the selectors won't be happy to hear that. It's probably first time in a while when someone rejected to play for Bangladesh A.

kaisermatin
February 18, 2007, 01:39 AM
just saw the NZ and Aussie ODI. NZ did a good job chasing 336. We need batsmen capable of making 100s. I think we have not chased 300+ or made 300+ yet. Any records?

billah
February 18, 2007, 03:46 AM
just saw the NZ and Aussie ODI. NZ did a good job chasing 336. We need batsmen capable of making 100s. I think we have not chased 300+ or made 300+ yet. Any records?

301, against Kenya. 2006.

rupantor
February 18, 2007, 03:48 AM
Do you think that all the ex captains are just dumbos? And some online mag readers are genius in cricket sense?


It's not an opinion war between ex captains and online forum readers.
Those ex captains think Pilot shoud be in the team.
But a group of people consisting of an ex captain, 2 national cricketers and a world cup winning coach---all thought Pilot does not belong in the team any longer.
Cricketing sense of the selectors and the coach does not matter at all?
All those ex captains may not be dumbos...but a world cup winning coach is not a dumbo either. He and the selectors watch each player more closely than any of the excaptains and hundread other "letter to editor" writers do.

Who am I talking to? I am an idiot and I should not bring you down to my level.
Sorry!!

cricket_king
February 18, 2007, 04:04 AM
And the Pilot debate runs on and on and on...
I suggest a truce! Everything that could have been said, has been said. Lets start looking for some other scapegoats now. we have 14 other guys, make your pick!

Yeah......the point is mushfique was chosen and mashud wasnt. End of story.

Sam
February 18, 2007, 07:35 AM
Khaled Mashud has been called for BA Team for the 4-day series against Eng A Team.

Sam
February 18, 2007, 07:48 AM
KM has refused to play for BD A : reports BDKhela

Zobair
February 18, 2007, 09:10 AM
Why? Anything barring injury will be very disappointing.

KM has refused to play for BD A : reports BDKhela

Miraz
February 18, 2007, 09:23 AM
Why? Anything barring injury will be very disappointing.

He is not mentally ready to play. That's the official reason given. :)

TheWatcher
February 18, 2007, 09:39 AM
I think I understand KM's position declining to play for the A-team. According to some reports, selectors not only questioned his batting ability, they also described his presence in the team as a harmful factor. I understand selectors leacked those info so to defend themselves from the political pressure that was building on them, but, right or wrong, Masud should feel offended being dafamed as a cancer in a squad. So, it is no wonder that he is declining to go through the selection process (playing in NCL, playing for A-team) at this point undet the current selectors.

Anyway, I am happy that he is not playing, this gives us a chance to try out a younger keeper against a quality opponent.

Zobair
February 18, 2007, 10:01 AM
Selectors calling him a harmful influence? rumour or fact? Mashud talked about being inspired by Saurav Ganguly. Look at Ganguly. His exclusion from the team was even messier. Remember the leaked email from Chappel and very public humiliation that Ganguly suffered from the board, team management and selectors? There lies the difference in quality of those two individuals both as characters and cricketers. The reality is everyone appreciates performance, determination and persistence in the face of adversity, even your opponents. Mashud is a cricketer. He should let his cricketing skills do the talking and not look to manipulate emotional fans off the field with crafty messages.

I think I understand KM's position declining to play for the A-team. According to some reports, selectors not only questioned his batting ability, they also described his presence in the team as a harmful factor. I understand selectors leacked those info so to defend themselves from the political pressure that was building on them, but, right or wrong, Masud should feel offended being dafamed as a cancer in a squad. So, it is no wonder that he is declining to go through the selection process (playing in NCL, playing for A-team) at this point undet the current selectors.

Anyway, I am happy that he is not playing, this gives us a chance to try out a younger keeper against a quality opponent.

TheWatcher
February 18, 2007, 10:15 AM
Selectors calling him a harmful influence? rumour or fact?
A rumor, but one that is spread by Prothom-Alo (http://www.prothom-alo.org/mcat.news.details.php?nid=MjU3OTM=&mid=OA==). From tone of the article, it seems one of the selectors leacked the info what really went on during the selection meeting (it was supposed to be a closed door meeting, so I don't see how anyone else can know what happened there unless a selector talked).

esteban_loaiza
February 18, 2007, 12:13 PM
Did the selectors pick the right team? Difficult to say although some names are very surprising. The best way to know is the performance of the team. I think it is time for the selectors to step down if Bangladesh fail to qualify for the next round. Enough opportunities have given to Faruq & CO. How can they experiment with team team for World Cup? All other coutries have a stable team at least for last 6 months. Picking Tamim is much much worse than dropping Pilot in my thoughts. We have destroyed talented young players by exprimenting with them too early and too much (e.g Ashraful) and blamed them right away that they cant perform. So seems like we haven't learnt our lessons, so if we dont qualify 2nd round these selectors and coach should be gone.

TheWatcher
February 18, 2007, 12:32 PM
Funny thing about the whole Masud mess is that when the team was announced, Masud supporters started behaving like Masud's exclusion was a bolt from the blue, even though Bashar and Prince made clear indications just the day before that Masud had little chance to be selected.

rudro
February 18, 2007, 02:25 PM
To me Masud's exclusion was more than expected, Rajin deserved the spot with his recent form in premier cricket, but I was very much surprised to see Javed in the team. Why is he in the team? Isn't Mehrab a better opener than JO?

Murad
February 18, 2007, 02:39 PM
To me Masud's exclusion was more than expected, Rajin deserved the spot with his recent form in premier cricket, but I was very much surprised to see Javed in the team. Why is he in the team? Isn't Mehrab a better opener than JO?

JO is better than Mehrab Jr. jabed at least can hit the balls hard and make some quick runs and then become slow n slow..but mehrab cant.. he just stay on the wicket and play so depensive.. he makes 10 runs from around 30-40 balls.. i think jabed use less balls than him.....

Ejaj
February 20, 2007, 03:00 AM
Pilot saga is a very common story in the Subcontinent cricket. What I have seen, the present group of players and the comming group of players are way better than the previous generation. Its a normal thing. Older generation didnt have much help with the technique development, whereas, newer generation have all. So.. whats really wrong if u replace a veteran with a newbie?. Pilot served the team and the country well, but, we must realize that, if we have a better player, we must include him to represent. Otherwise, no new player will be created and we will need to use Pilot when he will be 40 years old. U may be a supporter of Pilot, but, most of the ppl supporting Mushy , purely on the basis of performance and with the prospect of watching someting better than what we had before. Just as a curosity, were u upset when the young Mashud was chosen as the WK for BD back in 1997 in place of veteran Nasu ( WK from last ICC trophy)? If not , then why? If yes, then, I have no comments further about ur argument.

Ejaj
February 20, 2007, 03:08 AM
Sorry, this above question was intended for Billah Vai. Billa Vai, please give me the answer if it is atleast true that were in active follower of cricket since 80's.

Were u upset when the young Mashud was chosen as the WK for BD back in 1997 in place of veteran Nasu ( WK from last ICC trophy)? If not , then why? If yes, then, I have no comments further about ur argument.

Thanks.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

thebest
February 20, 2007, 04:18 AM
Lets move forward and close this thread. The team almost reached WI. KM is history for this WC.

FaridpurChicago
February 20, 2007, 11:49 AM
Lets move forward and close this thread. The team almost reached WI. KM is history for this WC.


No more plotting of Pilot. He served the country well, time to say good bye. Not ready to say bye to our veterans? Then bring Bulbul, Akram ... as well and get thrashed by Bermuda as it happened before.