Peshawari Cheat

[chinaman]

Latif, as a seasoned player, knew he dropped that catch, yet, was bold in claiming it inplay and afterwards. Why was he so confident? Had he gotten away with something else earlier?

Let's take a look at the peshawar test. In the first innings, BD came down to 320/8 at 126th over from 310/2 at 121st over. The chains of events that led to the premature demise of the BD innings may raise some eyebrows and even lead to some answers.

85 Over: New ball taken by Latif.
102 Over: Swing was seen on this ball for the last time before lunch.
108, 110 & 112 overs: Bowling by Shoaib Akhtar but no sign of swing at all.
104 & 106 overs: Bowling by Sabbir but no sign of swing at all.
116 & 118 overs: Bowling by Gul but no sign of swing at all.

Lunch was taken after 119 over.
The ball was just 35 overs old.
Bangladesh 302/2
Javed Omar 118* (351b 17x4) Mohammad Ashraful 70* (186b 7x4)

120 over: Dangerous swings were produced 4 times by Shoaib Akhtar
122, 124, 126 over: 4 batsmen were out from Shoaib's swings. (rajin by spin and Ash by pull)

120-126: Ball is not new enough to produce serious traditional swing and also not old enough to produce dangerous reverse swing. Reverse swing is known to occur after 40 overs of play (usually after 45 overs)

Now, the question is how come all on a sudden an apperently innocent ball became so violent? What happened to the ball at the lunch time?


The Daily Stars already questioned the possibility of reconditioning the Multan pitch on the final day.

All these are just mere coincidence? Or just another cause to inspire Latif to go for yet another big one and remain confident on a high note only to be caught unfortunately?

Raising eyebrows and questions are not merely a quest to find refuge for the tiger's loss. Indeed, for a nation, not naive in scaldals by it's national figures, if any of the doubts hold some thruth, the tigers must include yet another menu to their already overfilled net sessions if they even wish for a remote hope to win matches against such nations.


Qoutes from Wisden archive:


84.1 Shabbir Ahmed to Mohammad Ashraful, no run, angling away outside off, left alone
New ball has been taken by Rashid Latif
101.1 Shabbir Ahmed to Javed Omar, no run, good outswinger, with some bounce, tries to defend it, beaten outside off stump


End of over 119 (maiden) Bangladesh 302/2
Danish Kaneria 33-9-85-0 - College End
Javed Omar 118* (351b 17x4) Mohammad Ashraful 70* (186b 7x4)
Please join us again in 40 mins at 7:40GMT

Match State: Lunch - Day 2


Hello and welcome back to Arbab Niaz Stadium, Peshawar. The after lunch session about to start
Shoaib Akhtar to bowl to Javed Omar

119.1 Shoaib Akhtar to Javed Omar, no run, short ball, defended to leg
119.2 Shoaib Akhtar to Javed Omar, one run, pitches up, swings in, off
the edge to third man region
119.3 Shoaib Akhtar to Mohammad Ashraful, no run, bit of in swing in the
air, pitches on legs, tries to play on the on side, misses hit on
pads to short leg
119.4 Shoaib Akhtar to Mohammad Ashraful, one run, on target, swings in,
tries to play across the line, inner edge onto pads, hudge appeal
for lbw, declined by Tiffen
119.5 Shoaib Akhtar to Javed Omar, no run, good length ball outside off,
left alone
119.6 Shoaib Akhtar to Javed Omar, no run, again good ball, pitches just
outside off, came in sharply, hit on pads, just outside off, appel
for lbw, declined again by Tiffen


121.4 Shoaib Akhtar to Javed Omar, OUT: Gone! good fast swinging full toss, Javed Omar tries to drive it, beaten between bat and pad, ball hit the legstump, a great innings

comes to an end

Bangladesh 310/3, Partnership of 130
Javed Omar b Shoaib Akhtar 119 (357b 17x4 0x6)
Mohammad Ashraful 77* (196b 7x4) Shoaib Akhtar 18.4-2-40-1 (3nb)
Rajin Saleh is the new batsman

End of over 122 (6 runs) Bangladesh 315/3
Shoaib Akhtar 19-2-45-1 (5nb) - Pavilion End
Rajin Saleh 3* (1b) Mohammad Ashraful 77* (199b 7x4)

122.3 Danish Kaneria to Rajin Saleh, OUT: tosses up on middle stump, tries to defend it on the front foot, gets a faint outer edge in the hands of Rashid, huge appeal for

catch behind, Bucknor thinks and raises his finger up

Bangladesh 315/4, Partnership of 5
Rajin Saleh c Rashid Latif b Danish Kaneria 3 (4b 0x4 0x6)
Mohammad Ashraful 77* (199b 7x4) Danish Kaneria 34.3-9-90-1
Kapali comes in

End of over 123 (maiden) Bangladesh 315/4
Danish Kaneria 35-10-90-1 - College End
Mohammad Ashraful 77* (199b 7x4) Alok Kapali 0* (3b)

123.2 Shoaib Akhtar to Mohammad Ashraful, OUT: short ball again, tries to pull it from outside off stump, top edge and an easy catch in the hand of Rashid

Bangladesh 315/5, Partnership of 0
Mohammad Ashraful c Rashid Latif b Shoaib Akhtar 77 (201b 7x4 0x6)
Alok Kapali 0* (3b) Shoaib Akhtar 19.2-2-45-2 (5nb)
Khaled Mashud in

123.5 Shoaib Akhtar to Khaled Mashud, OUT: Gone! good inswinging delivery, Khaled missread that one, offers on stroke, rapped on pads in front of middle stump, huge

appeal for lbw, umpire raises his finger in a flash

Bangladesh 315/6, Partnership of 0
Khaled Mashud lbw b Shoaib Akhtar 0 (3b 0x4 0x6)
Alok Kapali 0* (3b) Shoaib Akhtar 19.5-2-45-3 (5nb)
Skipper comes into bat

End of over 124 (maiden) Bangladesh 315/6
Shoaib Akhtar 20-3-45-3 (5nb) - Pavilion End
Alok Kapali 0* (3b) Khaled Mahmud 0* (1b)


125.3 Shoaib Akhtar to Alok Kapali, OUT: good inswinger, Kapali tries to defend it, got the inner edge of the bat, Rashid dives towards his left and takes a very good catch

Bangladesh 320/7, Partnership of 5
Alok Kapali c Rashid Latif b Shoaib Akhtar 4 (10b 1x4 0x6)
Khaled Mahmud 0* (3b) Shoaib Akhtar 20.3-3-45-4 (5nb)
Match State: Drinks
Mohammad Rafique in

125.6 Shoaib Akhtar to Mohammad Rafique, OUT: swinging yorker, batsman tries to defend it, beaten by pace and swing, ball hit the off stump, Shoaib got his 5th wicket

Bangladesh 320/8, Partnership of 0
Mohammad Rafique b Shoaib Akhtar 0 (3b 0x4 0x6)

[paco]

Throw in the fact that Russell Tiffin got sick after lunch, Aleem Dar took over, and the ball started swinging prodigiously about the same time ;)

[Mahmood]

Very good article. Front page matrial. May I post it there?

I do have some reservations about what happened to the pich on the 4th day? It totally changed from batting deadly to flat. There is a huge possibility, the pitch was altered, which is also a serious crime. But none seemed interested to take that path of investigation.

If you look realisticly, altering balls, match fixing, cheating catch, these all shows a pattern which surely can include altering pitch.

[pagol-chagol]

This needs to be published. The change is too mind-boggling. I was talking to someone about whether Shoaib had taken steroid or something else during lunch. I remember that he was so tired in the heat that he was wearing ice-jacket earlier. I wondered what suddenly made him a superman. :mad:

[chinaman]

Tiffen went off and Asad Rauf comes in after 131 overs.

Source: Wisden (http://www.cricket.org/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2003/BDESH_IN_PAK/SCORECARDS/BDESH_PAK_T2_27-31AUG2003_BBB-COMMS.html)

Sure, you may post. The article is not well written. Anyone like to be co-author?

[Tehsin]

Quite interesting. Should send it to Dailystar. If nothing else, just have your friends read the article.

[Arnab]

The swing balls that got Shoaib the wickets after lunch were all swinging through the air, the pitch had little to do with it.

[Edited on 19-9-2003 by Arnab]

[Tehsin]

Arnab is a spoiler. :)

[Mahmood]

No, Chainaman indicated two cheats. One with the ball on Day 3 which gave the swings and the other with the pitch for the final day.

[Edited on 19-9-2003 by Rajputro]

[Piranha]

Guys, I hate to pour cold water on such consipracy theories, but creating swinging condistions when none exists is a very complicated business. Swing bepends on moisture in air, wind, texture of ball in addition to the soil quiality.

If there is any doubts, its about ball tampering. Its not difficult to do something with the ball that will produce prodigious swing. Even then, I think its going a bit far to make conspiracy charges when we face something that we cannot handle.

I think it is highly unlikley that anyone could have done something to the pitch to produce such prodigious swing.

Dont forget that the biggest factor in swing bowling is the bowler himself. His action can make the difference between a tiny amount of swing and a huge amount.

Since he is a natural inswinger, it seems likley that he became very excited and that caused part of his success.

[Piranha]

Rashif Latif has already been proven a cheat and has been punished for it. I dont see the point in dragging on this discussion much further.

[Mahmood]

You guys missed the point Chainaman made. The umpire acted suspitous, pakistani umpire came in, all off a sudden ball started to swing, the question he asked is, "what happened to the ball at lunch".

Pitch issue is the final day of the match. It totally changed on the fouth day going flat.

[acbizz]

These are old problems with pakistan cricket.

match fixing,cheating, ball tempering,umpiring drugs,girls,etc. I won't be surprise if something illegal happen in that test. Oh well nobody gets unpunished in the world.

[muddaser]

why dont you just take the defeat acbizz.

are you trying to say pakistan couldnt bowl BD out without cheating.

[Sami]

I would say thats the direction where this discussion is headed...

[Tintin]

My few cents.

Re. Shoaib, I'll go with Piranha here. The Pakistani umpire was not standing at the time. The ball would have been in posession of the neutral umpires during the lunch break. So any ball tampering done during the lunch break can be ruled out. Though the theory sounds interesting, we need more evidence. Innocent until proven otherwise.

As for the pitch issue, is the Daily Star report a result of just some guess work or do they have anything to back it up with ? Going by some of the recent reports from DS posted here, its credibility does not seem all that high.

[Tintin]

Just for the sake of curiousity, checked out last three of Shoaib's great bowling feats in tests - the 5/43 in Sharjah against WI, 6/11 in NZ, and the 5/21 in Colombo against Australia - to see whether there was anything common or suspicious.

5/43 in Sharjah : Ganga was bowled by a sharp incoming delivery in the first over a drinks break. 24th over of the innings, Shoaib's 7th. But Shoaib had been bowling well before the break too, and his first five overs were maidens. Got Gayle and Hinds in consecutive overs just after lunch, bowled Dillon and Cuffy in consecutive balls in the first over of a new spell.

6/11 v NZ : Pakistan had just been allout for 629. Akhtar yorked Horne, Richardson Fleming in his second over and 5th overs - and bowled Harris in his 6th. The one that got Fleming was travelling at 157 kmph.

5/21 v Aus : His greatest spell : It was nowhere near a drinks or other break, but again it was the beginning of a spell. In the first over of the spell, he bowled Ponting, M Waugh, and got S Waugh lbw in four balls. In the next, he yorked Gilchrist with an unplayable yorker and bowled Warne in his next.

The only common thing between the three is that they all came at the beginning of a spell. Not all came immediately after a break, the ball was very new in one case, around 20 overs in most cases, and very old in one.

I don't mind the least being contradicted, but the evidence of the past is in favour of Shoaib being innocent (unless he was cheating every time !)

[oracle]

During the heat of the test match i would have easily been enamoured by the ball tampering and other theories and gone along with this point. However, guys, look at it this way- what's really the point of all this? To prove that we should have won; That the Pakistanis are cheats.
The sentiment of the whole world that "day after" was that BD should have won that match.
As far as I am concerned we won morally and that is far superior to me than clamoring about this and that incident. In 20 years time when we have won our fair share of victories this game would,nt matter.

[Arnab]

All I can say is I love Tintin and Thundercats. My two favorites.

[Tintin]

Who are Thundercats ? :)

[Ehsan]

You mean that cartoon (Thundercats)? :lol:

[Arnab]

Yes the thudercats logo in radicalsalami's avatar.

[chinaman]

I think I need to clear few points as some of our members apparently missed some points.

I did not question the ability of Shoab Akthar as a bowler. He is one of the best bowlers of our time. I merely presented few facts to seek some answers which might alert or benefit our team in the future.

There was no swing from 103 to 119 th overs. Lunch was taken after the 119th over. Suddenly from the 120th over the ball started swinging seriously. 120th over was the 35th over of the new ball and as I mentioned earlier it is not suppose to make serious swing at that time. Of course the humidity, dryness etc etc play some part in producing swing but
there was no notable change in these conditions that might offer some explation to the cause at that time. So how could you explain the sudden appearance of swing when the ball is 35 overs old?

Someone put examples of Shoaib's spells. Did he produced drastic swings with a ball 35 overs old in any of the examples and the ball didn't swing at all in the previous 17 overs?

My point revolves arround the fact that a 35 overs old ball is not that suitable for normal or reverse swing. If you need more info on swing, please read "Reverse Swing" in the front page or elswhere on the net.

The pitch I mentioned is not from Peshawar but from Multan. Remember Inji?

[Ockey]

Going by Chinaman has said, in almost every game the opposition cheats in some way or another...because there is always a batting debacle just when BD seems to be settling down. If what you say did happen I would expect the BD team, who had first account of what the wicket and the ball looked like during the game, to raise the issue and make more noise. They did take on Rashid Latif, who happens to be the captain of the opposing team, which leads me to believe they certainly would brought it up with match officials.

May I request that, for the sake of maintaining professtionalism, we not have any conspiricy theories or speculation articles on the home page.

[Pundit]

A bunch of cry babies, some of you are !

Whether its because you support the WI or you are still running the ekatturer andolon, some of you guys are just too caustic.

Having said that though, if I were to mark the most likely to cheat in Int Cricket, then it would be like this-

1. Pakistan (not because the English think so)
2. Australia
3. Sri Lanka
4. England
5. No one else so far

[Wasim]

acbiz:These are old problems with pakistan cricket. match fixing,cheating, ball tempering,umpiring drugs,girls,etc. I won't be surprise if something illegal happen in that test. Oh well nobody gets unpunished in the world

I know it's really hard to accept the defeat and especially a close one like Multan, but why people r still crying over that????It's so stupid to think that ball can be tempered during the lunch break, how many of u watch cricket regularly?? the umpires check the condition of the ball after every over, and u will be surprised to know that UMPIRES DON'T LEAVE BALL IN SHAOIB AKHTAR'S HANDS DURING ANY BREAKS :D:D:D(i know it's hard to believe but they take the ball with them), so unless u claim that umpires cheated as well, then u have a solid point.

And Mr Acbizz, matchfixing was a worldwide issue and at that time lots of players from ALL OVER THE WORLD WERE INVOLVED IN THAT and yeah u r right there was no Bangladeshi, bookmakers offer money often for underperforming and losing the match, does anyone need to offer money to Bangladeshi players to lose a match?????And did u know that Bangladeshi players were also reported for late night come backs to hotels and clubbing during this WC?????

And Mr Pundit, u forgot to mention one country in your list of cheats which is actually the HOME of all this match fixing shlt.

[Zobair]

India shouldnot escape mention. The main book-making centre. Azhar and Jadeja getting banned for it. The fountain head

[Edited on 20-9-2003 by pompous]

[Tehsin]

Let's not forget South Africa. Was there any official investigation launched on the hansie accident ?

[Tintin]

I think pundit was talking about teams which use unfair means to win, not those which conspire to lose :)

[chinaman]

Guys, I'm considering to forward the following letter to the Anti Corruption Unit of the ICC. Please give your opinion on the following points:

1. Should this letter be sent to Anti Corruption Unit of the ICC or BCB first. Anywhere else?
2. Should this letter be sent by me or from banglacricket.com?
3. Should this letter be sent at all?
4. Any change in the writing?
5. Any other suggestion?


Event:
Bangladesh vs Pakistan
2nd Test, 2003
Peshawar, Aug 27 - Aug 31

Day 2, Ist Innings, Fielding Side: Pakistan

Sub: Possible Corruption With The Ball

The fielding side opted for a new ball at the conclusion of 84th over. Bowlers produced swing with that ball until the 102nd over. The ball exibited no further swing from any of the three fast bowlers for the next 17 overs which spanned from 103rd over to 119th over. 120th over started after the scheduled 40 min lunch break and the ball, now 35 overs old, immediately started to exibit drastic swing from the fast bowler Shoaib Akthar's delivery. In the next three overs of his spell, this bowler was able to produce some prodegious inswing to claim four wickets. Two more wickets were also claimed by short and spin deliveries.

There is no doubt that Mr. Akthar is capable of producing traditional and reverse swing alike. But a 35 overs old ball is known to be too old for traditional swing and too new for reverse swing to be produced. So it is not entirely unjustified to question the sudden appearance of dramatic swing and whereabouts of the ball during the lunch time specially when the host nation employs a number of stuff on the premises and the sheer presense of motivation steming from the tourist, better known as test minnows, enjoying their lunch at 302/2.

I believe the Anti Corruption Unit of the ICC will take heart of the issue for further consideration.

Sincerely

[Arnab]

Let me remind you again what Akhtar is capable of:

Asian Test Championship, 1998/99, 1st Match
India v Pakistan
Eden Gardens, Calcutta
16,17,18,19,20 February 1999 (5-day match)

FoW: ... 3-147 (Dravid, 50.1 ov), 4-147 (Tendulkar, 50.2 ov), ....

The first over after drinks, however, proved to be one of the most outstanding exhibitions of pure pace bowling seen in a long while.

Shoaib Akthar produced, out of nowhere, a superb inswinging yorker, the ball holding a line around off, swinging in very very late, Dravid completely beaten for pace and movement as the ball went through his defenses to take out his leg peg.

That brought Tendulkar to the crease, to a roar from the crowd. And Akthar outdid himself with what, from a batsman's point of view, was nothing less than a ball out of hell. This one started outside off, swung in very very late, and Tendulkar, who seemed to expect a short pitched delivery, was completely beaten for both the sheer pace, and the very late inswing, the ball landing in the blockhole and going on to send the middle stump cartwheeling.

That made the first time in his career that Tendulkar was out off the first ball he faced in a Test innings, and it took a dream delivery to do it.

I think this is how Shoaib operates.

Now about your comment:

"But a 35 overs old ball is known to be too old for traditional swing "

If by traditional swing you mean swinging through the air, then Shoaib is definitely capable of producing them even after 50 overs, as evidenced above.


[Edited on 20-9-2003 by Arnab]

[chinaman]

How old was the ball?

[acbizz]

Wasim I thought you were different than some of the other members. just go over my 'posting again. I didn't mention match fixing is a problem with only pakistani cricket team. Of course I did mention there are some old problems with them. And you will know better than me how many times the pakistani team or pakistani players have been accused than any other cricket team. My point was that it might be possible in the 2nd test that something illegal happened. You guys have past records, thats not my fault. I didnt say for sure something happened. I didnt disrespect your team. If you want to discuss (logically) further, find me online. And I didnt get you what you said about Bangladesh and match fixing . Because I didnt mention anything about that. Also you said about us not accepting the losing. You should ask Rashid Latif this question. The guy who was known be a voice against anything dishonest is now himself a cheater. And as far as I know not the team but one BD player reported about the clubing in WC (I might be wrong). Clubbing is not that bad :). And please don't waste my time and your time again by incorrectly analyzing my post.

[tnb]

I do have suspicion about the pitch on the fifth day in the third test. But as far as Akhtar's reverse swing, we should give him the credit. Most of the cases he does it all of a sudden. Now, if Wasim and Waqar were playing and they were unable to produce swing for 34 overs and Akhtar came for 35th over and started swinging the ball then there was reason to raise eyebrows. But Gul and Shabbir's failure to produce swing did not mean that the condition for swing was not prevailing. Now why Akhtar was unable to get swing earlier? He is like that, lackluster most of the times and then suddenly redeems himself. Against Australia he got 5 wickets with in-swinging yorkers and the ball was more than 20 overs old, too old for traditional swing and too early for reverse swing, but he did get the swing. I will rather believe that he took some steroid during the launch than that the ball was tampered.

I hope our players will start learning to deal with the late swings.

[tnb]

Forgot to post this from Crcikinfo


1st Test: Pakistan v Australia at Colombo (PSS), 3-7 Oct 2002

End of over 24 (3 runs) Australia 88/6 (lead by 276 runs)
Saqlain Mushtaq 8-0-30-2 - Air Force Flats End
DR Martyn 3* (5b) SK Warne 0* (2b)

24.1 Shoaib Akhtar to Martyn, no run, reverse swings in and he gets it
away to the covers

[Pundit]

Yes, Tintin, you are correct. I was referring to underhand/contemptuous tactics employed to win a game.

Chinaman, you kind of remind me of the BD parliament of the 1990s and their attempt to censure Argentina for beating Brazil in the wc.

Don't make a jack *** out of BD please.

[fwullah]

Chinaman, just send the letter to Daily Star. They'll better understand of what to do with the letter - either to throw it down or to publish it, after all, media has the power what a single person do not have.

[Mahmood]

The after effect continues...

[Zobair]

At first when cm bhai said that the ball was tampered with, I was dead against it thinking that is not possible...and that we were getting carried away. Well now a former Pakistani great, Abdul Qadir the "magician", has made the same allegations!

Read below:

Pak pacers are cheats: Qadir

Ace former leg-spinner Abdul Qadir was axed from its show overnight by PTV for claiming that Pakistan's fast bowlers, past and present, succeeded because they tampered with the ball.

But the man who was called 'Magician' for his unique skills is not taking this dismissal lying down. He has threatened to take the state-run channel to court for stifling "the truth".

Qadir's response was to a query by moderator Hasan Jalil on the lack of success of Shoaib Akhtar and Mohammed Sami against India during a two-hour nightly cricket special programme that enjoys mass viewership.

"We all know the ball has always been made up (sic) by Pakistani fast bowlers, but with so much scrutiny on this series, this has not been possible," said Qadir. "Even against Bangladesh in the Peshawar Test last year, the fast bowlers were unsuccessful till after a break wickets fell in a heap."

Allegations of ball tampering have dogged Pakistan cricket for a couple of decades now. The ability of fast bowlers down the years (Sarfraz Nawaz, Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis to Shoaib Akhtar and Mohammed Sami) to get the old ball to reverse swing has bewildered many experts. In recent years, more bowlers across the world have acquired this ability, but Pakistan cricket has always been the subject scrutiny.

Source: The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/605326.cms)

-------------------------------------------

Chinaman Bhai! hats off to you. :)

[Edited on 7-4-2004 by pompous]

[billah]

The Smoking Gun at last! Good detective work by Chinaman. Have you ever thought of a career change? This is a big WOW! Imagine! We suspected it!

[AsifTheManRahman]

I dont think there was a conspiracy...

[AsifTheManRahman]

Well Mr. Wasim, a few BD cricketers were indeed reported during the WC, but we all know that women are a big problem in Pak cricket, waaaaayyyyyyyy bigger than they are in BD cricket...

Thank You

[James90]

Very good work Chinaman! Did you ever get to send your report?

[Zobair]

This is a very old thread...in fact it dates back to the pakistan tour. Waseem doesn't even come here any more. I just dug it up to post the article in Times of India about Abdul Qadir's "explanation". The posts before my last one are really old.

[chinaman]

Thank you all. [Pompous, pompous, pompous ...]

James:

No, I did not. How could I with all those encouragements? :lol:

Billah:

Thank you for the suggestions. Well, my career does involve some investigative works, sort of. :embaressed:

[billah]

Like they say in Baseball here: "Good Eye", "Good Eye".:)

[fwullah]

All of you have been talking about the Bangladesh tour of Pakistan? About what happened there LAST YEAR?

You must be crazy (no hard feelings, guys) to go into a debate over what happened LAST YEAR and posting over 20 threads!

[Nasif]

Thanks pomp for bringing this up. I just have to say WOW! Chinaman bhai was dead on spot!

Seriously, I have lost all respect for pak fast bowlers now.

[chinaman]

Just for the record, a link from cricinfo:

'Pakistan bowlers have always tampered with the ball' (http://plus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2004/APR/119344_PAKIND2003-04_08APR2004.html)

[Pundit]

Nasif,

All that needs to happen is you playing Shoaib Akhtar just once. I'm sure the respect will come back faster then the delivery itself.

Chinaman,

I guess the ability of Shoaib to produce the abnormal is what makes him so special. And afterall, it was the BD team he was bowling to. We are well know to capitulate around the lunch time. And while the Pakistanis are probably the most well known cheaters in the game, it is difficult to think that SA would need to actually cheat.

But still, what you are saying are facts - I mean the proceedings. My thoughts are that you may send it as a personal letter to the ICC, and see how they respond.

[billah]

Go for it, Chinaman. You've got Abdul Kadir to back you up. By the way, I love the title of this thread. :P

[chinaman]

Originally posted by Pundit
.. it is difficult to think that SA would need to actually cheat.Dear Pundit

I respecfully disagree with you here. With 310/2, a dire need for a breakthrough could easily be justified and that wasn't coming his way at the time. SA's ability was mentioned in my earlier posts. Anyway, good to see some change of heart. Thanks.

Dear Billah,

Personally, I'm not motivated enough right now to go for it. But if you or any one else like to go for it, feel absolutely free to take my posts. Cheers.

[James90]

Originally posted by fwullah
All of you have been talking about the Bangladesh tour of Pakistan? About what happened there LAST YEAR?

You must be crazy (no hard feelings, guys) to go into a debate over what happened LAST YEAR and posting over 20 threads!

Fahmida, if you had checked before you posted you would have noted that most of this thread was posted LAST YEAR when Pakistan was fresh on our minds

[Pundit]

"Change in heart."

Chinaman - lets learn to stick to the point, shall we ?

[chinaman]

Moderation off --->
Chinaman, you kind of remind me of the BD parliament of the 1990s and their attempt to censure Argentina for beating Brazil in the wc.

Don't make a jack bottom out of BD please.vsMy thoughts are that you may send it ..I just appreciated the change.

Sure, we can stick to the point.
Moderation on --->

[capslock]

So when former Pakistani greats claim that the Bangladesh vs. Pakistan match in the 99 World Cup was fixed they're wrong but when they say that Pakistan tampered with the ball in the Peshawar test against Bangladesh they're right?


Ohkaaaay......

[chinaman]

Under attack for his controversial remarks, former leg-spinner Abdul Qadir on Friday clarified that what he meant was the ability of Pakistan bowlers to reverse swing the old ball and not tampering.

In a programme on state-run PTV earlier this week, Qadir had said the Pakistan bowlers were finding it difficult to work on the ball because of increased scrutiny by TV cameras.

"I have never said Pakistani bowlers tamper with the ball, in fact the television footage is there as evidence," said Qadir, who took 236 wickets for Pakistan and was regarded as one of the best leg-spinners of all time.

"What I said on the show was that Pakistani bowlers excel only after they make the ball and by that I meant that they shine the one side and the other side is rough," he said. "Pakistani bowlers are famous for reverse swing with the old ball and there is nothing sinister in it.

With me on the show was former fast bowler Aqib Javed and he seconded my opinion and I never used the word tampering," said Qadir.

Pakistan 's interior minister Sheikh Rasheed took note of Qadir's comments on Pakistan television and immediately ordered his suspension from future television programmes.

Times of India >> (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/609043.cms)