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Arnab
September 27, 2003, 10:57 PM
Can you calculate the percentage of team total scored by Tendul and Lara in the second innings only?

Tintin
September 27, 2003, 11:56 PM
Okay. Let me try. Give me some time.

Tintin
September 28, 2003, 12:46 AM
India played 108 test matches in SRT's time. Tendulkar played in 105.
India had a second innings in 72 of them, SRT batted in 66 with 13 notouts.

Tendulkar's figures are 2568 176 155* 136 48.45 9x100 10x50 4x0
India made 15986 runs for 512 at 31.22 in these innings.
Tendulkar scored 16.06% of the runs


WI played 114 test matches in Lara's time.
Lara played in 96 tests, of which 79 had a West Indian second innings and he batted in 73 and (only) 5 notouts.

Lara's figures are 2975 153* 145 130 43.75 7x100 14x50 5x0
WI made 15494 runs for 615 wkts at 25.19 in these innings
Lara scored 19.20% of the runs

The standard warning that a lot of this was done manually and there may be errors apply !

[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Tintin]

Tintin
September 28, 2003, 12:50 AM
India made 15986 runs for 512 at 31.22 in these innings


This includes all the 72 in which India had a second innings, not just the 66 in which SRT batted. Similarly for WI.

Do you want to exclude those second innings ?



[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Tintin]

Arnab
September 28, 2003, 02:44 PM
Yes. Consider only the 2nd innings they played.


BTW, you're awesome.

[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Arnab]

Ehsan
September 28, 2003, 02:53 PM
Tintin bhai Welcome to the group of Club Cricketers.:)

Tintin
September 28, 2003, 04:19 PM
Thanks, Ehsan. I appreciate it, coming from a test cricketer :)

After adjusting these innings :

India 15187 505 30.37 and SRT scored 16.90% of the runs.

The innings which have disappeared are India's 303/3 in his first test, 149/0 in NZ in 1989/0, 29/1 in SAF 1992/3, 249/2 in NZ 1998/9, 64/1 against Bangladesh, and 5/0 v England in 2001/2.

WI 15328 615 24.92. Lara scored 19.40 %

The ones missing now are 29/0 v Pak in Bridgetown 92/3, 43/0 v Eng, St John's 93/4, 29/0 v NZ, Bridgetown 95.6, 57/0 v Aus Perth 96/7, 3/0 v Aus, Kingston 98/9, 5/0 v Ind, Bridgetown, 01/02.

[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Tintin]

Ehsan
September 28, 2003, 04:37 PM
O gosh, I thought the rank "Club Cricketer" starts from 100 posts.

I guess I was late to wish you.

Tintin
September 28, 2003, 04:37 PM
This is a way to do this with the tools that we have. Hopefully someone will find this useful :

Getting the second innings stats for batsmen is easy. Statsguru has an 'advanced filter' option which can be used to filter out just the second innings. Do that to list all SRT's innings with the 'include missed matches' set to 'yes'.

But if we do the same thing for 'India' for SRT's era, Statsguru provides the second innings for both the teams. So copy and paste this in a text file. Delete all the non-Indian innings, delete all the tests in which SRT did not play (shown as DNP is SRT's lists). Also delete the innings in which SRT did not bat.

Save this text file and open it in Excel. When we try to open a text file, Excel will trigger its 'text import wizard'. Select 'delimited' option with space and backslash as delimiters. Now innings scores will appear in one column and and the wickets/no of overs in the next. Replace the number of overs to 10 (all out innings). Add up the columns for runs and wickets. That's about it.

It took me something like 40 minutes yesterday, but I guess this can be done in less than 10 minutes once you know how to do it.



[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Tintin]

Arnab
September 28, 2003, 05:02 PM
Some more interesting facts on Sachin and Lara.

a. In the fourth innings of a match, which is also team second innings(regardless of results):

Sachin has scored 785 runs in 29 innings at an average of 35.68 with 2 centuries and 2 half-centuries.

Lara has scored 1181 runs in 34 innings of 40.72 with 2 centuries and 6 fifties.

b. In the fourth innings of a match, in which WI or India won:

Sachin has scored 203 runs in 9 innings at an average of 50.75 with 0 centuries, 0 half-centuries and 5 notouts.

Lara has scored 406 runs in 10 innings at 81.20 with 1 century, 2 fifties, 4 notouts.

c. In the team 2nd innings (which is also either the third or fourth match innings) , regardless of results:

Sachin has scored 2568 runs in 66 innings at an average of 48.45 with 9 centuries, 10 fifties.

Lara has scored 2975 runs in 73 innings at 43.75 with 7 centuries and 14 fifties.

d. In the team 2nd innings (which is also either the third or fourth match innings), where WI/India won the match:

Sachin has scored 629 runs in 17 innings at an average of 62.90 with 2 centuries, 1 fifty and 7 notouts.

Lara has scored 800 runs in 18 innings at 57.14 with 1 century, 5 fifties, 4 notouts.

[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Arnab]

Tintin
September 28, 2003, 05:04 PM
So Lara is not as better in the second innings as he is made out to be, is he ?


Edit : I'll qualify that statement. But if you take out the 153*, Lara's figures would become much more ordinary.





[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Tintin]

Arnab
September 28, 2003, 05:17 PM
Hehe...but it is the 153* (quite possibly the greatest test innings ever) that makes Lara so extraordinary. :)

Tintin
September 28, 2003, 05:21 PM
:)

If only Tendulkar's 136 against Pakistan was 150* :mad:

Arnab
September 28, 2003, 05:47 PM
Lara against the minnows:

against Srilanka: 14 innings, 1125 runs, ave. 86.53, 5 centuries, 2 fifty, 0 notout.

against NewZealand: 8 innings, 614 runs, ave. 51.16, 1 century, 4 fifties, 0 notout.

against Zimbabwe: has not played yet.

So against the minnows (sans the weakest ZIM), with their weak bowling attacks and all, Lara has scored 1739 runs in 22 innings at an average of 79.04.

Tendulkar against the minnows:

against Srilanka: 16 innings, 1124 runs, ave. 80.28, 6 centuries, 3 fifties, 2 notouts.

against NewZealand: 23 innings, 991 runs, ave. 55.05, 3 centuries, 4 fifties, 5 notouts.

against Zimbabwe: 14 innings, 918 runs, ave. 76.50, 3 centuries, 3 fifties, 2 notouts.

against Bangladesh: 1 inning, 18 run.

So against the minnows, with their weak bowling attacks and all, Sachin has scored 3051 runs in 54 innings at an average of 67.80.

-----------------

Observations:

1. Lara has played only 22 innings compared to Sachin's whopping 54.

2. Lara hasn't even played zimbabwe, the weakest of test teams.

3. Sachin has amassed 3051 runs against the minnows at an average of 67. 50, almost ten points greater than his overall average. Lara's stats are even more skewed. His average of 79 against the minnows is almost 28 points higher than his current ave.

3051 is 34.68% of 8811, Sachin's total runs. So Sachin scored 1/3 rd of his runs against the minnows.

Lara's 1739 is 20.69%(about 1/5th) of his total of 8404 runs.

4. Lara has scored 6 centuries in 22 innings against the minnows, as opposed to Sachin's 12 in 54.

Gross speculation: Had Lara played in 54 innings against the minnows like Sachin has, he would have scored 14 or 15 centuries and 4268 runs in those matches.

[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Arnab]

Arnab
September 28, 2003, 06:26 PM
Let's say, both had to play only 1 inning (or an equal number of innings) against each test team. We will use their average to predict how many runs they will score in each of those innings. If we calculate the sum of those innings, what happens?

Lara:

Aus: 51.45
SA: 35.95
Eng: 65.26
Pak: 30.30
Ind: 37.66
NZ: 51. 66
Sri: 86.53
----------

Total: 358.81 runs in 7 innings at an average of 51.25.

Sachin:

Aus: 54.07
SA: 37.92
Eng: 76.50
WI: 57.73
NZ: 55.05
Pak: 32.91
Sri: 80.28
Zim: 76.50
--------------
Total 470.96 runs in 8 innings at an average of 58.87

PS: All those averages are also skewed by the notout factor. If we take out the not out factor, what happens? Tintin?

Edit: edited ST's figures.

[Edited on 30-9-2003 by Arnab]

Tintin
September 28, 2003, 10:00 PM
Without notouts

Tendulkar :

Aus : 50.21
Eng : 70.13
NZ : 43.09
Pak : 32.91
SAF : 36.46
SL : 70.25
WI : 53.12
Zim : 65.57


421.74/8 = 52.71

Lara :
Aus : 49.40
Eng : 61.63
NZ : 51.16
Pak : 30.30
SAF : 35.95
SL : 80.36
Ind : 37.36

346.16/7 = 49.45


I guess it is not fair to Tendulkar to consider the notouts because he comes slightly lower down the order and has more opportunities for notouts.

Still, the picture remains the same. With notouts, SRT has better averages against every country except SL. Without it, he trails only in SL and NZ.

I guess the reason why 'minnows' table reflected something else was because we considered too few matches, and Lara happened to have one outstanding series among them.



[Edited on 1-10-2003 by Tintin]

Tehsin
September 29, 2003, 09:10 AM
So many numbers. :)
In this stat war (working together) to see who is better - did you guys come up with any conclusions ?

By the way, Lara hasn't played bangladesh also. What if he did play us when WI was in BD ? We had a weak team with low morale.

Tintin
September 29, 2003, 09:59 AM
In this stat war (working together) to see who is better


This is not a war, a mere exchange of numbers :)

Arnab, save this page before it disappears again !

Tehsin
September 29, 2003, 12:18 PM
Stat war between Lara and Tendulkar.

Arnab and Tintin working together.

How about that ?

Arnab
September 29, 2003, 01:34 PM
Looks like I just lost another post to the black hole

Tehsin
September 29, 2003, 01:42 PM
My aologies to both of you. This is a great thread. Hopefully, you were able to save it.

Tintin
September 29, 2003, 02:10 PM
Arnab, are the lost ones the 'recent form' messages. Hopefully, I'll have it in the cache in the pc at home.

Arnab
September 29, 2003, 10:25 PM
That would be great.

Tintin
September 30, 2003, 06:38 AM
No luck. It tries to retrieve it from the site and fails :(

Kalbaisakhi
September 30, 2003, 08:11 AM
Well calculation tintin bro.How u collect this information?:-/:-/:-/

Kalbaisakhi
September 30, 2003, 08:13 AM
Well calculation tintin bro.How u collect this information?:-/:-/:-/

Tintin
September 30, 2003, 08:24 AM
Kalbaisakhi,

It is done with the help of Statsguru in Cricinfo. This one : http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/sdb/sdb_find.pl

Kalbaisakhi
September 30, 2003, 09:17 AM
Hey dont see this web before tintin.thxz for the information.It is easy to see the statistics of any player.I search for tendulker against bd.He scored just 18.What a surprize.:-/:-/

asifr
October 1, 2003, 12:02 PM
Tendulkar might have played more games against the minnows but he still is ahead of Lara if we calculate their performances against all the other test teams expect Zim,BD.

Brian Lara 8314 runs Average 51.32 21 100's
Sachin Tendulkar 7875 runs Agverage 56.25 28 100's

and if we look at only AWAY FROM HOME records:

Brian Lara 3795runs Avergae 46.28 11 100's

S.Tendulkar 4359runs 53.81 16 100's

Tendulkar is still ahead there.

[Edited on 1-10-2003 by asifr]

Arnab
October 1, 2003, 12:40 PM
These AWAY stats are all nice. Let's see what happens after Lara tours Zimbabwe in a few months. :)

asifr
October 1, 2003, 01:02 PM
Lets first wait for Lara to score his first 100 against SAF, something he has failed to do in 11 tests. Hasnt scored a 100 against Pak too but thats another matter. :)

Arnab
October 1, 2003, 01:18 PM
I think he will score a century against SA this time around. The last time he was going for a cenury in SA, he was stopped by probably the most stunning catch I have ever seen in my life, by Herschelle Gibbs. Lara made a full-blooded pull shot going horizontally probably 1-2 feet above the ground. Herschelle in square-leg made a full length dive to his left and caught the ball with his left hand. When on TV replay they froze the moment of the catch being made, his body was seen to be floating in the air, absolutely parallel to the ground, fully stretched left arm plucking the ball from the air.

It takes freak catches like this to stop Lara from getting a hundred. He was in top form that day. He smashed Donald for 4 consecutive fours a few overs before. :)

asifr
October 1, 2003, 01:25 PM
And what about the other 10 tests? :P

Arnab
October 1, 2003, 01:26 PM
Dude, I don't have time for this. You either get it or you don't. :)