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james007
May 28, 2007, 03:20 AM
What will be results. Predict. I think its India's next series/
Will they lose 4-0
3-0
2-0
1-0

Tintin
May 28, 2007, 06:37 AM
What will be results. Predict. I think its India's next series/
Will they lose 4-0
3-0
2-0
1-0

I want India to lose 4-0.

Mainly because it is a 3 Test series.

sunny747
May 28, 2007, 06:53 AM
India willl stand no where againts england.....

rah
May 28, 2007, 07:11 AM
england at home is a very dangerous side

khalek
May 28, 2007, 07:31 AM
its 7 ODIS and 3 Tests.... india will lose 7-0 in ODI... and 3-0 in tests

Ganguly da
May 29, 2007, 03:02 AM
What will be results. Predict. I think its India's next series/
Will they lose 4-0
3-0
2-0
1-0



don't worry about India's results, why don't you worry about when Shoaib akhtar will get banned again? or if Pak will be able to beat Scotland in 20/20 WC

nzfan
May 29, 2007, 05:45 AM
India cant win outside the subcontinent Dravids the only batsman i the team with a higher average outside India

psj
May 29, 2007, 09:25 AM
India cant win outside the subcontinent Dravids the only batsman i the team with a higher average outside India

Have u started watching Cricket only after BD's win in the World Cup..
Plz check the results of India's last tour of Australia.

Miraz
May 29, 2007, 09:35 AM
IMO, India will dominate England as the tour in the later part of the summer and wickets in England usually offer less assistance in the later parts.

Any team touring Early summer is bound to lose as balls move laterally as well as gets good bounce.

England is a pretty ordinary team, Sidebottom will not get those wickets in July or against India. I really doubt whether England has the ability to bowl India out twice with this bowling line up.

Indian bowling is also lacking a quality bowler.

Zaheer, RP Singh/Sreesanth and Kumble, India need another bowler. I hope Irfan can get his form back.

Kabir
May 29, 2007, 12:45 PM
don't worry about India's results, why don't you worry about when Shoaib akhtar will get banned again? or if Pak will be able to beat Scotland in 20/20 WC

Come on Gangu. That was unnecessary :)

Hatebreed
May 29, 2007, 12:49 PM
England finally gained some confidence by beating WI, plus they have the home advantage. I hope they whitewash India.

Yameen
May 29, 2007, 03:40 PM
england to take the test series 2-1 and india to take odi series 5-2..

Ganguly da
May 29, 2007, 03:50 PM
Come on Gangu. That was unnecessary :)

ok ok ..... i take that back.....


my prediction: Monty panesar would be the key to Eng's limited success.... India has a very good chance in beating them both in ODIs and Tests

Tigers_eye
May 29, 2007, 04:00 PM
With both sides poor bowling ability it comes down which batting lineup are more patient. I see out of 3 test, 2 of them being a draw. England has slight advantage at home. So I would say England would win 1-0.

7 ODIs??? why? England 4-2 one game postponed.

Kabir
May 29, 2007, 09:59 PM
ok ok ..... i take that back.....


my prediction: Monty panesar would be the key to Eng's limited success.... India has a very good chance in beating them both in ODIs and Tests

That sounds much better bro.

Actually, I don't know about England team. They're really like the senior and better version of Bangladesh. Today they'll be the hero of the day, and tomm they'll do so horribly bad that there's no place for them to hide their face.

But if you read between the lines, you'll know who I'm supporting here. The analogy is quite clear I hope? ;)

israr
May 30, 2007, 04:09 AM
It's going to be a hard-fought loss for the Indians.

Sohel
May 30, 2007, 06:30 AM
Tests: England 2-0 (1 draw)... MOMs & MOS: Kevin Pietersen, Kevin Pietersen, Rahul Dravid & Kevin Peter Pietersen.

ODIs (if Manoj Tiwary and Piyush Chawla play together): England 4-3, England 6-1 if they don't.... MOS: Kevin Pietersen.

Xavier
May 30, 2007, 07:50 AM
Test: 1-0 for England or maybe India could even make 1-1.

ODI: 3-2 for England (+2 NR... english rain!).

rah
May 30, 2007, 07:58 AM
odi series i fink will be good thought series but in the test matches im woth england. but a lot will depend on harmisons bowling

Ganguly da
May 30, 2007, 05:23 PM
That sounds much better bro.

Actually, I don't know about England team. They're really like the senior and better version of Bangladesh. Today they'll be the hero of the day, and tomm they'll do so horribly bad that there's no place for them to hide their face.

But if you read between the lines, you'll know who I'm supporting here. The analogy is quite clear I hope? ;)

haha you're sleek aren't you!!!

bd_fan_from_india
May 30, 2007, 10:10 PM
guys, india is not that bad as some of u people r predicting. zaheer khan is going to blow england away in tests

prediction:

tests: ind 2-0 with 1 test drawn due to bad-light/rain
odis: ind 6-1 with too much experimentation causing that loss

gatekeeper
May 31, 2007, 12:54 AM
Have u started watching Cricket only after BD's win in the World Cup..
Plz check the results of India's last tour of Australia.

History will bare nzfan's assumptions out. But I think it'll be a much closer contest and I'd give England the edge. Indian batsmen may find it difficult in English conditions.

Bearman
May 31, 2007, 01:35 PM
Both teams have a lot to prove, should be an interesting series. Englands bowling can be lethal AT HOME. If India underestimate that they could go 2-0 down quite quickly.

Nocturnal
May 31, 2007, 02:29 PM
Test series 1-1.
ODI Ind 5 - 2 Eng .

sandpiper
May 31, 2007, 03:32 PM
test series : England 1-0
ODI: England 4-2

syzygy
May 31, 2007, 04:00 PM
India cant win outside the subcontinent Dravids the only batsman i the team with a higher average outside India

nzfan i never knew u were so ignorant. FYI

1. India has drawn the test series 1-1 against Australia last time they played away frm home (only team who has drawn against aussies in this decade).could have been 2-1, steve waugh saved them in sydney.

2. India won the test series against windies last yr.

3. india won a test match against SA this yr.

I guess neither of australia, windies or SA is within the subcontinent.

sandpiper
May 31, 2007, 05:53 PM
you are right that India won three matches outside subcontinent recently

in Adelaide, Jamaica and Johannesburgh
but I am watching this team for a long time and can tell you with conviction that only Freddie, Pietersen, and Harmison are enuogh to beat India in an english condition. Dravid may come with a couple of hundreds, but India is India. time will say everything.
nzfan i never knew u were so ignorant. FYI

1. India has drawn the test series 1-1 against Australia last time they played away frm home (only team who has drawn against aussies in this decade).could have been 2-1, steve waugh saved them in sydney.

2. India won the test series against windies last yr.

3. india won a test match against SA this yr.

I guess neither of australia, windies or SA is within the subcontinent.

james007
May 31, 2007, 11:49 PM
I can't wait for India to lose 3-0 and 7-0. This will shut them up forever.

Sohel
June 1, 2007, 12:13 AM
KP's warning... read: -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/06/01/scpiet01.xml

i opened a thread about this. is KP talking to dravid and company?

Ganguly da
June 1, 2007, 12:29 AM
KP's warning... read: -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/06/01/scpiet01.xml

i opened a thread about this. is KP talking to dravid and company?


it's true, the sloppiness india showed playing against BD will not work in Eng, all those catches missed, all the fielding attempts, everything will be the difference between win or lose

Mahir
June 1, 2007, 01:18 AM
With both sides poor bowling ability it comes down which batting lineup are more patient. I see out of 3 test, 2 of them being a draw. England has slight advantage at home. So I would say England would win 1-0.


Yep, agreed totally.

I dont see how England stands a chance to win the ODI series. 7-0 whitewash for India would've been mighty possible if the series was being played in India. But local conditions won't allow India to commit any such crime in England. 5-2 for India.

Nafi
June 1, 2007, 06:48 AM
England would manage a test series win, but would get mauled in the ODI series.

Protic
June 1, 2007, 09:40 AM
England probably gonna get the test series 2-0..a draw or washout ..i think.
And ODI series.. mm .. India should win atleast 4-3...
KP will pwn Kumble,Zaheer,Powar,Vrv,Ishant and whatever there is.

bd_fan_from_india
June 1, 2007, 10:12 AM
looks like u people r severely underrating india:mad:

Puck
July 16, 2007, 08:19 PM
you might as well follow the bbc 606 forums for better coverage ;)

james007
July 17, 2007, 06:52 PM
3-0

Puck
July 17, 2007, 07:20 PM
England would manage a test series win, but would get mauled in the ODI series.

having spent two third of life in britain and after following the england team for twenty years i'd say that your estimation is the most likely outcome.

we will struggle against indian batting but shall probably end up winning the test series. however, we shall struggle, as even, in the limited overs, losing 80% of them.

Buddhika_s
July 17, 2007, 08:44 PM
I don't think india will win against England in tests. Period.

is dhoni phony playing? the guy's on freefall after that 183 eh?

anyways i dont' want india to win mainly because they can be the 3rd ranked team. which sucks because Sri Lanka is the 3rd ranked test team.

MohammedC
July 17, 2007, 09:05 PM
England will win the Test series by atleast 2 game.
But India will batter England in ODI because England never caught up with modern day ODI style of play. They still play the old way, save wicket til the 40th over then go after it whereas the recent successful team like Aus,SL will try to dominate from the begining. Yes there is times when the condition is favouring the opposing bowler you may see them batting sensibly for little while but most of the time they will go after the bowlers.

MysoreHuli
July 18, 2007, 02:08 AM
I can't wait for India to lose 3-0 and 7-0. This will shut them up forever.

Keep dreaming.. Lo....:floor: :floor: :floor:

MysoreHuli
July 18, 2007, 02:29 AM
India will rock!

Surfer
July 18, 2007, 02:48 AM
I hope India does well. Dravid, Tendulkar and Gangulya have performed well in England before and are capable of adapting to the English conditions. Sehwag of the past will be missed sorely. Dhoni's backfoot game will be tested....though he impressed in the last tour match. Laxman has a point to prove.....if he hits form, we are in for some great entertainment.

India's bowling will struggle. But its good to see Zaheer Khan in form. Sreesanth will find the conditions working in his favor. If these two can assist Kumble well enough, India might well take the twenty wickets in due time.

England is kicked right now and would love to maul India if they can. I do expect them to make mistakes.

India hasnt been doing bad of late barring the world cup. This competition should be interesting.

Tintin
July 18, 2007, 02:50 AM
Planning to merge this with the other thread about India-Eng series unless someone wants it otherwise.

Tintin
July 18, 2007, 02:51 AM
BTW why are there two threads on the same topic?

I just posted the same question in the other thread :)

Omio
July 18, 2007, 04:29 AM
I m supporting England,
S.H will miss the whole series that's the big blow for England.

Sohel
July 18, 2007, 10:30 AM
With Harmison and possibly Hoggard out of the first test, and Tendy along with Dada being acutely aware of this as their last tour of England, the contest has been suddenly cracked wide open.

Tigers_eye
July 18, 2007, 10:43 AM
I don't think india will win against England in tests. Period.

is dhoni phony playing? the guy's on freefall after that 183 eh?

anyways i dont' want india to win mainly because they can be the 3rd ranked team. which sucks because Sri Lanka is the 3rd ranked test team.
They can either be 2nd or even end up as 7th.

ellawilson
July 26, 2007, 05:19 AM
Your prediction is absolutely wrong. There is no chance of loose but possibility to gain. The absent of Flintof and Tescothif English has no possibility to win.:notworthy:

DJ Sahastra
July 26, 2007, 04:51 PM
In my opinion, this series is a last chance for Sachin, Ganguly & laxman to redeem themselves. Otherwise it will be obvious that we need to blood in youngsters as the veterans are past their prime and age is not on their side either.

I also feel that Sachin needs to stop worrying about making runs and should instead focussing on dominating the bowlers. He seems in "i need to make runs at all cost" mode these days. His technique is still far more superior than 90% of the batsman in the international arena today but his performance seems a distant cry over what it used to be.

More or less same applies to Laxman. Ganguly was never a quality Test player and i would want him to focus entirely on ODIs.

Buddhika,

Dhoni is for real as he proved it in and before this Test but the same can't be said of Sangakkara who seems to have turned into a minnow basher of late ;). Btw, i can understand your immense dislike of Dhoni ;).

Surfer
July 27, 2007, 12:03 AM
I don't think india will win against England in tests. Period.

is dhoni phony playing? the guy's on freefall after that 183 eh?

anyways i dont' want india to win mainly because they can be the 3rd ranked team. which sucks because Sri Lanka is the 3rd ranked test team.

Free fall? Lets see....

In the last 55 matches(starting from that 183), Dhoni has been scoring at an average of 51.14 with 2 centuries and 11 fifties(ODIs only). Given that he comes so low down the order, these figures show excellent batting. In that he has got three scores above 80 and one 139*. I think thats very good batting. You call that free fall? IF an average of 51 is free fall, I guess 70% of international batsmen are fallen?

BangladeshFan
July 31, 2007, 07:01 AM
india is ahead 1-0 with one test to go. I think india's batsmen actually gets better once they get used to the conditions. the bowling attack is not great but it is enough to push england over. england should have played india earlier in the summer, may/june period with lot of swing, their pace trio would fare better than india's.

now england will come guns blazing in the last test, they have to save the home series. But I would love to see england lose, even english weather wants them to lose :) . Comon tendu/dravid/zaheer, throw the knockout punch and dont let england get up from the canvas.

DJ Sahastra
July 31, 2007, 07:47 AM
guys, india is not that bad as some of u people r predicting. zaheer khan is going to blow england away in tests

prediction:

tests: ind 2-0 with 1 test drawn due to bad-light/rain
odis: ind 6-1 with too much experimentation causing that loss

Now, this posting needs to be quoted. Especially since it is from May.

So far, amazingly true.

Beamer
July 31, 2007, 11:12 AM
Now, shouldn't the Cricinfo types put an asterix beside this result ?

We are constantly reminded by them and their ilk on how our only victory in test, against Zim, came against a depleted side.

England bowling minus the services of Hoggard, Flintoff, Harmison essentially demotes them to 'B" category. Make no mistake about it, it is indeed a depleted side, though circumstances are different from the Zim side.

Before S Rajesh and his gang immortalizes this victory with their prose, let them be aware to insert an asterix with every article they write in the coming week. I know, I will...

DJ Sahastra
July 31, 2007, 12:21 PM
Now, shouldn't the Cricinfo types put an asterix beside this result ?

We are constantly reminded by them and their ilk on how our only victory in test, against Zim, came against a depleted side.

England bowling minus the services of Hoggard, Flintoff, Harmison essentially demotes them to 'B" category. Make no mistake about it, it is indeed a depleted side, though circumstances are different from the Zim side.

Before S Rajesh and his gang immortalizes this victory with their prose, let them be aware to insert an asterix with every article they write in the coming week. I know, I will...

If you look at the averages of Hoggard, Flintoff, harmison etc against India, you won't make that statement :).

The last time i checked, flintoff averaged in 70s against India in England. And i am not talking batting :)

On a side note, i had rather have Flintoff and Harmison and Hoggard bowl against Indian team than Tremlett, Anderson and Sidebottom.

Beamer
July 31, 2007, 01:18 PM
So, you would rather have the injured trio becasue they are worse vs India than the trio that bowled in this series? Incredible remark ! I don't know whats more laughable? This remark or the claims by some quarter that India would have avoided loss in Lords' with one wkt in hand and hundred to chase, only because Dhoni was still there? Its a toss up really. Regardless, this remains an asterix victory..

Cryin Out
July 31, 2007, 02:23 PM
There are no asterisk victories in international cricket, beamer. You play the side that's put up against you. You win, draw or lose. Finis.

Padosan
July 31, 2007, 02:42 PM
Now, shouldn't the Cricinfo types put an asterix beside this result ?

We are constantly reminded by them and their ilk on how our only victory in test, against Zim, came against a depleted side.

England bowling minus the services of Hoggard, Flintoff, Harmison essentially demotes them to 'B" category. Make no mistake about it, it is indeed a depleted side, though circumstances are different from the Zim side.

Before S Rajesh and his gang immortalizes this victory with their prose, let them be aware to insert an asterix with every article they write in the coming week. I know, I will...

You can put double or triple asterix before the victory if you want. But you cannot take away the Indian performance in that demanding conditions there. Sidebottom has been the dominating of the duo even when harmison was in the side.

Like every other country's fans, we Indian fans are hugely impressed with our sides performance and we will celebrate for sure.

Well what can i say about your attitude, your types cannot digest a Indian victory. L-)

cheers !
Padosan

DJ Sahastra
July 31, 2007, 02:55 PM
So, you would rather have the injured trio becasue they are worse vs India than the trio that bowled in this series? Incredible remark ! I don't know whats more laughable? This remark or the claims by some quarter that India would have avoided loss in Lords' with one wkt in hand and hundred to chase, only because Dhoni was still there? Its a toss up really. Regardless, this remains an asterix victory..

Beamer,

You need to lighten up. There were no claims by "some quarters". Rather there was a claim by me that India would've won the Lord's test because Dhoni was still there and less than 100 to get.

And since you didn't get it, it was in a lighter vein.

And i was not talking about injured trio. Rather my point was, there is no depleted England side since the so-called trio or quartet of English pace attack haven't really ruffled Indian batting. The current trio have been far more menacing.

It is more like someone claiming that with Warne retirement, India will face a depleted Australian attack when it visits Australia. The truth, as we all know, is much different.

Beamer
July 31, 2007, 03:19 PM
You can put double or triple asterix before the victory if you want. But you cannot take away the Indian performance in that demanding conditions there. Sidebottom has been the dominating of the duo even when harmison was in the side.

Like every other country's fans, we Indian fans are hugely impressed with our sides performance and we will celebrate for sure.

Well what can i say about your attitude, your types cannot digest a Indian victory. L-)

cheers !
Padosan

My post was clearly directed towards Cricinfo, some of their writers ( a certain stat guy ) and not India per se. Who would have thought that pointing your arrow at Cricinfo would automatiacly draw ire from Indian crowd! Surprise surprise ! It just rubber stamps what we suspect at BC anyway.

Full marks to India in this test match. It's not their fault that some of English great fast bowlers have been ruled ot of action. My point being, we are constantly reminded by Cricinfo types how our victory came against a depleted Zim side, and Yes, the asterisk hangs over like Damocles sword. I do see no such mention in Cricinfo. If India was in this match with players ( current players ) such as Zaheer, Kumble, RP ruled out, I am sure, we would have been reminded a hundred times if India lost.

Your last para/line : Well..I am too dignified for that. Doesn't matter what you think about me or my attitude. I will refrain from making personal comments about you as I don't know you personally.

Beamer
July 31, 2007, 03:23 PM
There are no asterisk victories in international cricket, beamer. You play the side that's put up against you. You win, draw or lose. Finis.

I agree 100%. Too bad some writers don't see it that way. As long as they are consistent, I have no problem, but, cherry picking must be pointed out.

syzygy
July 31, 2007, 06:47 PM
oic some fans are finding it really hard to digest an indian victory and putting chimeral reasons which are anyway baseless...let them suffer from indigestion or let them be happy in their own chimeral world. lets just look forward to more such impressive performance from team india and the fall of the brits in their own land..keep it up boys, u have made us all proud :)

Ahg984
July 31, 2007, 06:53 PM
This is a very good victory for India. The England team was strong, I just looked at the averages of their batsman, not a single one averages below 40. Their bowlers bowled exceptionally well and India would have faired better w/ Hoggard, Harmless one bowling rather than Tremlett and Sidebottom.

All in all a deserving victory for India.

Cryin Out
July 31, 2007, 11:04 PM
I agree 100%. Too bad some writers don't see it that way. As long as they are consistent, I have no problem, but, cherry picking must be pointed out.

That is a fair statement. Just so you know, I am not one who would critique Bangladesh's Test victories. The record shows Bangladesh won. That is all that matters. Cheers.

And yes, cherry picking is ridiculous.

Surfer
August 1, 2007, 02:50 AM
I am quite happy with India's overseas performance lately. We are improving and soon we will be winning some series. I would love to see India seal this one 2-0 and then win one against Australia in Australia. Last time we were so close....this time we will make it.

criccric
August 1, 2007, 03:26 PM
Now, shouldn't the Cricinfo types put an asterix beside this result ?

We are constantly reminded by them and their ilk on how our only victory in test, against Zim, came against a depleted side.

England bowling minus the services of Hoggard, Flintoff, Harmison essentially demotes them to 'B" category. Make no mistake about it, it is indeed a depleted side, though circumstances are different from the Zim side.

Before S Rajesh and his gang immortalizes this victory with their prose, let them be aware to insert an asterix with every article they write in the coming week. I know, I will...


Instead of S. Rajesh, suggest you check stats before commenting - Here are the stats of Flintoff against India

Statsguru - A Flintoff - Tests - Innings by innings list

Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St

unfiltered 67 3381 167 32.50 5 24 197 5/58 32.02 2 44 0
filtered 9 389 70 25.93 0 5 22 4/50 40.09 0 7 0

And here are Harmison's

unfiltered 54 632 42 11.49 0 0 205 7/12 30.82 8 7 0
filtered 3 55 39 13.75 0 0 10 3/57 31.30 0 0 0

Both fare worse against India than others. So i guess you can continue to put a * for your own amusement.

And Hoggard is only marginally better:

unfiltered 64 444 38 7.40 0 0 240 7/61 30.03 7 23 0
filtered 10 74 32 7.40 0 0 36 6/57 29.05 1 5 0

RazabQ
August 1, 2007, 06:12 PM
As myself:

Congrats to India for an outstanding win. They out-Englanded England in their own backyard (old formula of conventional swing and watchful, correct batting). Having said that, I think y'all are jumping on Beamer for no reason. He's specifically making a dig at S Rajesh and not at India's victory. And for those who want to dredge up Fred and Hoggy's stats, understand that you are going about it the wrong way. Instead of stats against India which would include away matches in India's drier, less-pace friendly pitches, focus on what they have done at the later part of summer in England (regardless of opponent). Surely one cannot, in a straight face suggest that an attack consisting of Tremlett, Anderson & Sidebottom would be preferred to an inform attack of Freddie, Harmy, Hoggy and I daresay S Jones? Bowling requires nous that you just can't buy. If one cannot, and one should not, then yes, the S Rajesh types could make and argument about the *.

Again, not saying that this win _should_ have an asterisk. Clearly India kicked *** and I rooted for them to pull it off - if for nothing else but so that gangu & tendu can ride off to a glorious sunset. But, if certain stats editors are going to start putting asterisks against any wins, then they _could_ do so in this case as well.

As Mod:
please don't attack the messenger, regardless of your position. This goes for both camps.

DJ Sahastra
August 1, 2007, 08:11 PM
"Instead of stats against India which would include away matches in India's drier, less-pace friendly pitches, focus on what they have done at the later part of summer in England (regardless of opponent)"

RazabQ,

Flintoff averages 70 against India in England, Hoggard close to 40 and Harmison in mid-20s - all in their home conditions. The performance of Flintoff, Hoggard, Harmison etc. against India in Tests in past has hardly been menacing or something that would make Indian supporters quake in their boots. They maybe much better than what their performance against India might suggest - i would give that - but having observed them and played them , i don't think Indian batsman are heaving a sigh of relief that they aren't facing them.

But that was not the point when i said i had have them instead of the current trio.

As someone who has observed a hell-lot of "unknown" entities torment Indian batsman, i am more comfortable with known and famed players against the Indian team than the unknown entities, howsoever harmless sounding. And i honestly was more worried of the Sidebottoms and Tremletts (and if Broad plays, then Broad) - the fear of the unknown and untried - than the famed trio.

I would be more worried about Flintoff's batting than what he can do with his bowling.

At this moment, i am more worried of Sidebottom and Tremlett (and Broad, if he plays), than if Flintoff and Harmison and Hoggard were suddenly deemed fit to play the final Test. And Sir, that is with a very straight face.

As for Beamer, his post and comment sounded as much irksome as the comment of someone would've sounded if he were to come and say "Oh, you only won because it was a depleted Zimbabwe side" when BD earned it's historic first win. Maybe his remarks were directed at something/someone else, but they were definitely out of place and at a wrong time. The travails of the Indian team post World-Cup and SA debacle has made quite a many Indian fans sensitive to jibes/remarks and who else would be expected to understand it better than a BD fan.

criccric
August 1, 2007, 09:08 PM
As myself:

Congrats to India for an outstanding win. They out-Englanded England in their own backyard (old formula of conventional swing and watchful, correct batting). Having said that, I think y'all are jumping on Beamer for no reason. He's specifically making a dig at S Rajesh and not at India's victory. And for those who want to dredge up Fred and Hoggy's stats, understand that you are going about it the wrong way. Instead of stats against India which would include away matches in India's drier, less-pace friendly pitches, focus on what they have done at the later part of summer in England (regardless of opponent). Surely one cannot, in a straight face suggest that an attack consisting of Tremlett, Anderson & Sidebottom would be preferred to an inform attack of Freddie, Harmy, Hoggy and I daresay S Jones? Bowling requires nous that you just can't buy. If one cannot, and one should not, then yes, the S Rajesh types could make and argument about the *.

Again, not saying that this win _should_ have an asterisk. Clearly India kicked *** and I rooted for them to pull it off - if for nothing else but so that gangu & tendu can ride off to a glorious sunset. But, if certain stats editors are going to start putting asterisks against any wins, then they _could_ do so in this case as well.

As Mod:
please don't attack the messenger, regardless of your position. This goes for both camps.

The operating word in your comment was "in form" the phrase "inform attack of Freddie, Harmy, Hoggy and I daresay S Jones". An in-form Harmison, Flintoff et. al are dangerous - but so are in-form Ashish Nehra, Balaji, Irfan Pathan, Munaf Patel all of whom didnt play. So I dare say it evens out. And do I need to add in-form Sachin is more dangerous than this shadow of Sachin. But not sure if Flintoff, Harmison would have beaten Sachin's bat more than Sidebottom did or would have troubled more than Tremlett did.

But thats beside the point. Finally, completely agree with other comments - you play against the team you are given.

Beamer
August 1, 2007, 11:06 PM
"Instead of stats against India which would include away matches in India's drier, less-pace friendly pitches, focus on what they have done at the later part of summer in England (regardless of opponent)"

RazabQ,

Flintoff averages 70 against India in England, Hoggard close to 40 and Harmison in mid-20s - all in their home conditions. The performance of Flintoff, Hoggard, Harmison etc. against India in Tests in past has hardly been menacing or something that would make Indian supporters quake in their boots. They maybe much better than what their performance against India might suggest - i would give that - but having observed them and played them , i don't think Indian batsman are heaving a sigh of relief that they aren't facing them.

But that was not the point when i said i had have them instead of the current trio.

As someone who has observed a hell-lot of "unknown" entities torment Indian batsman, i am more comfortable with known and famed players against the Indian team than the unknown entities, howsoever harmless sounding. And i honestly was more worried of the Sidebottoms and Tremletts (and if Broad plays, then Broad) - the fear of the unknown and untried - than the famed trio.

I would be more worried about Flintoff's batting than what he can do with his bowling.

At this moment, i am more worried of Sidebottom and Tremlett (and Broad, if he plays), than if Flintoff and Harmison and Hoggard were suddenly deemed fit to play the final Test. And Sir, that is with a very straight face.

As for Beamer, his post and comment sounded as much irksome as the comment of someone would've sounded if he were to come and say "Oh, you only won because it was a depleted Zimbabwe side" when BD earned it's historic first win. Maybe his remarks were directed at something/someone else, but they were definitely out of place and at a wrong time. The travails of the Indian team post World-Cup and SA debacle has made quite a many Indian fans sensitive to jibes/remarks and who else would be expected to understand it better than a BD fan.

RazabQ

I can hold my own. But, thanks anyway. What began as a dig or challenge at Cricinfo ( and some of their writers and that stat guy ) has been taken as an attack on India cricket team and her last deserved victory against England. I have mentioned it already and surely won't waste time repeating it again and again. If dyslexia is running amok, nothing I can do or say, to cure it. Many here will attest to when I say that certain vested elements at Cricinfo has a partciular disliking for Bangladesh playing test cricket. It's crystal clear really. They will even nit pick on seemingly irrelevant stats for the pleasure of painting us in a bad light. Asterisk on our victory against Zimbabwe remains to this day. Even on match previews, on the eve of matches, to be played between us and any other team, usually starts with a cursory mention of that victory and how depleted Zimbabwe was. My dig at Cricinfo was certainly not out of place or at the wrong time. When should I rain on the parade ? Sometime in December? No better time or place to say it than right after the match. My point being, if our victory has to live with an asterisk forever , why shouldn't there be an asterisk with this result as well? Don't bet your house on it.

As for DJ, his posts may sound as a voice of moderation, but, he remains an unabashed defender of certain Cricinfo characters. I have seen him making comments that are quite irksome in his defense of those characters, even going as far as scolding fellow posters in sarcastic manner. The evidence is there throughout this forum. One thing is clear now : Attacking Cricinfo in any way is akin to attacking India. Judging by the responses one cannot make any other conclusion. I am not least bothered by it. I will continue to point out double standards by that site when I want it and wish it and at any time of my choosing. Andrew Miller, Martin Wiliamson, Dileep P..need not worry! We know who they are.

Beamer
August 1, 2007, 11:25 PM
The operating word in your comment was "in form" the phrase "inform attack of Freddie, Harmy, Hoggy and I daresay S Jones". An in-form Harmison, Flintoff et. al are dangerous - but so are in-form Ashish Nehra, Balaji, Irfan Pathan, Munaf Patel all of whom didnt play. So I dare say it evens out. And do I need to add in-form Sachin is more dangerous than this shadow of Sachin. But not sure if Flintoff, Harmison would have beaten Sachin's bat more than Sidebottom did or would have troubled more than Tremlett did.

But thats beside the point. Finally, completely agree with other comments - you play against the team you are given.

Nehra, Balaji, Pathan - dropped players. Only Munaf is injured. On the other hand, Harmison, Flintoff, Hoggard, Jones - all are injured and not dropped. Your analogy is not correct and it doesn't even out. Maybe, RazabQ should have said "injured" and not "in form". Funnier is your comment about how equally dangerous are those Indian trio ( quartret ) compared to the English trio. You mean to say the trio of Irfan, Nehra, Balaji are as good as Freddie, Harmison and Hoggard? If you believe that, well, good for you, and maybe you believe in 'Tooth Fairy' too.

DJ Sahastra
August 2, 2007, 12:35 AM
As for DJ, his posts may sound as a voice of moderation, but, he remains an unabashed defender of certain Cricinfo characters. I have seen him making comments that are quite irksome in his defense of those characters, even going as far as scolding fellow posters in sarcastic manner.

I am an unabashed defender of many things that may run contrary with general opinion on this forum. I will continue to defend them till i believe in them.

It is true - i don't believe Rajesh produces any of his stats with any malicious intent or purpose nor is he any more vicious with his stats than what his numbers tell him. And i also believe that he is a very gifted statistician.

When he brings in his vicious numbers to belittle Sachin for his performance in last couple of years, we hate him and dislike him - it hits on our ego and esteem somewhere. But we also grudgingly admit that his numbers do indicate an issue somewhere. When he wants us to first feel good by telling that we have won atleast a Test match each in 10 of the last 12 series and then wants to belittle it by saying that we have only managed to win 2 of those series "when we exclude series against Bangladesh & Zimbabwe", he is playing a party-poop and is hitting on the nerves of his fellow countrymen who might have started to feel good a little too soon.

And number of such stats that he keeps coming up with to literally haunt us, is unending.

Those of us who follow him have all the reasons to label him as "anti-Indian" or with some kind of tirade against India or it's cricketing icons. Those of us who have followed him long enough only admit, albeit grudgingly, that he is a man gifted with numbers and will use them to paint pictures that may or may not go down well with us.

My worst fear is that he may start taking all this hatred from this and similar forums seriously and start being politically correct with his statistics. And that would be a sad day - i would take his inconvenient "asterisk" ridden stats that tell me or try to tell me something howsoever inconvenient (or maybe even incorrect) over a politically correct and heart-gladdening apologetic stats that tell me nothing that i already don't know. But then that's just me.

Finally, my apologies for comments that may have irked you or other members. I intend to bow out of this thread - this is my last post in here. Thank you for your time.

criccric
August 2, 2007, 06:17 AM
Nehra, Balaji, Pathan - dropped players. Only Munaf is injured. On the other hand, Harmison, Flintoff, Hoggard, Jones - all are injured and not dropped. Your analogy is not correct and it doesn't even out. Maybe, RazabQ should have said "injured" and not "in form". Funnier is your comment about how equally dangerous are those Indian trio ( quartret ) compared to the English trio. You mean to say the trio of Irfan, Nehra, Balaji are as good as Freddie, Harmison and Hoggard? If you believe that, well, good for you, and maybe you believe in 'Tooth Fairy' too.

Point is lost - but never mind. Play by numbers not by reputation. Case rested.

Beamer
August 2, 2007, 12:21 PM
I am an unabashed defender of many things that may run contrary with general opinion on this forum. I will continue to defend them till i believe in them.

It is true - i don't believe Rajesh produces any of his stats with any malicious intent or purpose nor is he any more vicious with his stats than what his numbers tell him. And i also believe that he is a very gifted statistician.

When he brings in his vicious numbers to belittle Sachin for his performance in last couple of years, we hate him and dislike him - it hits on our ego and esteem somewhere. But we also grudgingly admit that his numbers do indicate an issue somewhere. When he wants us to first feel good by telling that we have won atleast a Test match each in 10 of the last 12 series and then wants to belittle it by saying that we have only managed to win 2 of those series "when we exclude series against Bangladesh & Zimbabwe", he is playing a party-poop and is hitting on the nerves of his fellow countrymen who might have started to feel good a little too soon.

And number of such stats that he keeps coming up with to literally haunt us, is unending.

Those of us who follow him have all the reasons to label him as "anti-Indian" or with some kind of tirade against India or it's cricketing icons. Those of us who have followed him long enough only admit, albeit grudgingly, that he is a man gifted with numbers and will use them to paint pictures that may or may not go down well with us.

My worst fear is that he may start taking all this hatred from this and similar forums seriously and start being politically correct with his statistics. And that would be a sad day - i would take his inconvenient "asterisk" ridden stats that tell me or try to tell me something howsoever inconvenient (or maybe even incorrect) over a politically correct and heart-gladdening apologetic stats that tell me nothing that i already don't know. But then that's just me.

Finally, my apologies for comments that may have irked you or other members. I intend to bow out of this thread - this is my last post in here. Thank you for your time.

I think you are missing the bigger picture here by citing example of Sachin and his declining prowess over the last few years by his stats. He is dealing with the individual player and not the country. If he spends half the time dissecting the individual stats of BD players ( ex Bashar or someone else ), I would not complain, but, instead he focuses primarily on the nation as a whole and its right to play test cricket. As a starter, ICC gave us the right, not him, and thus, he can't take it away. Any attempt in that regard can be termed as intellectualy corrupted.

We may turn up as a good test outfit in ten years, or maybe, we will continue to stink for another twenty years. If ICC revokes our status, only then, he will be right to do what he has been doing. I give you an example : Immediately after Zaheer's nine wkt haul, as usual, he came up with stats and placed it among the fifth/sixth best wkt haul for an Indian pacer overseas. True to his nature, he also puts an asterisk on Irfans ten wkt haul against us in 2004, simply because it came against us, and thus Zaheer's accomplishment can be moved up as the third best ever effort, if one chooses to do so. Thats quite insulting to Irfan IMO, as that effort remains one of the best showing of pace bowling I have seen in Bangladesh to date. This is the sort of exclusiveness that he practices when it comes to us. You can debate the test ascension of Bangladesh, but as we are already there, sanctioned by ICC, he has no room to practice his style of 'Cricket Apartheid', especially in a site that is recognized as the leading cricket site of the World closely associated with ICC.

Cricket is the only sport where this type of elitism exists, despite having a small pool of nations playing it. FIFA will recognize a Kaka goal for Brazil against England or Costa Rica in the same breath. He won't have two tiers of stats recording his goals vs elite teams and not so elite teams.

Contrary to your belief, I am convinced that he has nothing but malicious intent when it comes to Bangladesh and cricket. This has been observed not overnight but after years of careful observation. And, Yes, he is a gifted statistician, and we care because Cricinfo is the bread and butter site for cricket lovers all across the board. I wouldn't care if he was working at the basement of Rediff cricket section since they have no credibilty, but Cricinfo does, and this practice of self imposed exclusion/inlcusion at his own whims must be protested.

Lastly, despite our disagreements, I consider you as a good contributor to this site. I expect you to protect the interests of your country. I should be afforded the same. Until and unless S Rajesh changes this childish attitude, I will continue to dig at him, here and via e-mail to Cricinfo. You needn't get emotional or defensive about his origin. I carefully avoid his ethnicity as it is unimportant. It is his individual deeds that I am more focused on. And..You do not need to apologize for anything.

Thanks for your time as well.

Nocturnal
August 2, 2007, 12:37 PM
good post Beamer.

aventis
August 2, 2007, 01:09 PM
good post DJ.

Puck
August 2, 2007, 07:53 PM
most neutral observer shall see that sahin is waning. he is still very pleasing to watch but does not feel as reassuring as he was in the late nineties. he is still a very good player though.

AsifTheManRahman
August 5, 2007, 02:54 PM
Pietersen shaken by beamer: http://usa.cricinfo.com/engvind/content/current/story/305604.html

AND

Atherton pours fuel on controversy: http://usa.cricinfo.com/engvind/content/current/story/305606.html

Interesting :)

Miraz
August 5, 2007, 03:04 PM
ATMR, your links end up in pages that cannot be found. :(

AsifTheManRahman
August 5, 2007, 03:10 PM
Hmm...for some reason the links were spacing out in between characters when I was posting them in html format. Anyways, fixed. Thanks.

BangladeshFan
August 7, 2007, 04:35 AM
most neutral observer shall see that sahin is waning. he is still very pleasing to watch but does not feel as reassuring as he was in the late nineties. he is still a very good player though.

yah his reflexes are slowing down, even though he still has the technique and temperament. Its sad though that Asians I think slow down quicker than say people of African origin. Lara still has better reflexes than Tendu even though he is a few years older.

but its not just reflexes or stroke making capability, there is a thing called GUTS, Tendu still has that in plenty. A gutsy batsman can make more damage to a bowler than a talented stroke player(if only our aftab/ashraful knew that).

aventis
August 9, 2007, 07:41 AM
In the 3rd and Final Test at Oval,India is in a strong position .

Scorecard:
India won the toss and elected to bat first
Lunch - Day 1 India
India 117/1 (28.0 ov) RR 4.17
Karthik (rhb) 50
R Dravid (rhb) 25

They cannot lose it from here,hopefully.

Tintin
August 11, 2007, 09:07 PM
Mike Atherton writes in Telegraph about the current version of SRT. Those who are frustrated by Ashraful & co can easily relate to some of this :


It is simply that Tendulkar is now a very fine player rather than a very great one. He can no longer play like the prince of his youth - few can or could - except in the kind of glorious snapshot that we witnessed so briefly on Friday afternoon. He can no longer dominate Test-class bowlers for long periods; can no longer break their will except by playing the long game and wearing them out.

In this series he has batted entirely without ego, which is an astonishing thing given that he, along with Shane Warne, is the greatest cricketer of his age. He has been prepared to show Paul Collingwood respect even in the nineties (it cost him his wicket at Nottingham), has taken a blow flush on the grille from the pup Anderson, and been happy to absorb punishment as Anderson and Chris Tremlett have targeted his ribs. Not many other players with his record would have so willingly ceded the high ground to such an inexperienced bowling attack.


Yet he has been happy to do so, because the needs of the team demanded that he did so. First-innings runs were the absolute key to victory at Trent Bridge, and the key to the series victory at the Oval, so Tendulkar has not been bothered how he has got the runs, merely that he has done so. And in doing so, he has shown that he is, above all else, a craftsman always prepared to give the art of batting the ultimate respect.


Look at how he has approached each innings and the minor adjustments he has made each time. Monty Panesar trapped him lbw at Lord's, and thereafter Tendulkar played him with his bat, not pad. At Trent Bridge, Vaughan set a successful trap at leg-gully; thereafter Tendulkar decided (with one exception) that he was not hooking nor was he fending, which meant taking blow upon blow on the body. Each innings has been carefully pre-planned and thought out which is a wonderful lesson to all those who haven't always given their talent or the demands of the game due care or attention.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/08/12/scaths212.xml

Puck
August 12, 2007, 06:56 PM
it is a fine article actually paying critical accolade to a great player.

MysoreHuli
August 13, 2007, 05:54 AM
I want India to lose 4-0.

Mainly because it is a 3 Test series.


TInTIN... :floor::floor::floor:

DJ Sahastra
August 14, 2007, 08:24 AM
I don't think india will win against England in tests. Period.

is dhoni phony playing? the guy's on freefall after that 183 eh?

anyways i dont' want india to win mainly because they can be the 3rd ranked team. which sucks because Sri Lanka is the 3rd ranked test team.

Buddhika,

You are our lucky mascot. :smug:

MysoreHuli
August 14, 2007, 08:33 AM
Buddhika,

You are our lucky mascot. :smug:

Buddhi illa Buddhikage..

:floor: :floor: :floor:

Puck
August 14, 2007, 09:25 AM
how silly it is to just play 3 test matches against a team like india when the second tier west indians got four matches.

Sohel
August 15, 2007, 12:18 AM
Not an Indo-Pak fan by any stretch of the imagination, but it was somewhat of a downer to have the 3rd test slip away like that. A valuable series win nevertheless.

Dada (best Bengali cricketer to date, arguably the best captain India has ever had), Tendy, and Dravid did their thing and made quite a difference. VVS could have done better … sigh. With Dhoni, Jaffer and Karthik consolidating their places, UV, Irfan and Kaif waiting for their chances to shine, and Manoj (Bengali) and Yusuf in the pipeline, India's batting will continue to be formidable in the future, perhaps more so than it has been to date in terms of victories abroad. With Zaheer at his peak and Kumble continuing his mastery of all conditions, guys like Sreesanth and RP are improving with every match and will give Irfan a run for his money at this level. With Ranadev (Bengali) and Chawla waiting in the wings, and Nehra set to return one of these days, India has a brighter future than any time in recent memory. If the over-commercialization is kept on a leash, and a Sri Lankan style professional approach is customized to fit BCCI realities, India will start to deliver on all those exciting promises.

Congrats on a well-deserved series victory.

Pundit
August 15, 2007, 02:23 PM
how silly it is to just play 3 test matches against a team like india when the second tier west indians got four matches.

Maybe there were scheduling issues that you are not aware of. I would conjecture that the ECB memo sent to you earlier was lost in mail.

Pundit
August 15, 2007, 02:26 PM
How famous was this Indian series win?

- The English were understrength
- India almost lost the first test
- They could not win the 3rd test from a position of great strength

But nevertheless, India now is so different from the India of the past - in a better sense. Hopefully BD will quickly overcome deficiencies that have plagued those Indian teams for over 5 decades.

Ganguly da
August 15, 2007, 05:22 PM
How famous was this Indian series win?

- The English were understrength
- India almost lost the first test
- They could not win the 3rd test from a position of great strength

But nevertheless, India now is so different from the India of the past - in a better sense. Hopefully BD will quickly overcome deficiencies that have plagued those Indian teams for over 5 decades.


Harmison never really had a good series before he was injured, nor did Flintoff. And Simon jones is out of question and so is Trescothick who was never in the equation in the 1st place, so what you talking about understrength?

infact, India's bowling dept was relatively weak, with sreesanth and rp singh, we didn't have Munaf patel, or Agarkar

Nocturnal
August 21, 2007, 04:36 PM
First ODI
England 288/2 (50 ov)
India 184 (50.0 ov)
England won by 104 runs

rubel_18
August 21, 2007, 05:32 PM
India got butchered today, they were so borin to watch batting 2day. I hope they bounce bak in next game

AsifTheManRahman
August 21, 2007, 07:16 PM
their bowlers weren't too impressive either. only two wickets?

tonoy
August 21, 2007, 07:29 PM
Oh man did you guys watch the English bowlers? I mean all three of em had pace to knock the indians out of the park. I mean did you notice Flintoff? India got roadkilled today.

Sohel
August 21, 2007, 10:10 PM
First ODI
England 288/2 (50 ov)
India 184 (50.0 ov)
England won by 104 runs

Reality check for Indians after the test series win.

Time to bring out their young guns and let them grow into the formidable side they can be. I don't think Manoj Tiwary and Yusuf Pathan could've batted any worse, or Mohammad Kaif fielded any worse, or Ranadev Bose and Irfan Pathan bowled any worse.

Lets see if Dada and Tendy can turn it around for India.

tonoy
August 21, 2007, 10:59 PM
you gatta give it for the england though. all credits to them. i predict a series win for them.

Sohel
August 22, 2007, 01:25 AM
you gatta give it for the england though. all credits to them. i predict a series win for them.

If they continue to play like the way they did, even a whitewash shouldn't be too difficult.

Ganguly da
August 22, 2007, 01:52 AM
batting, bowling, fielding.....india was outclassed in all 3 depts.... and yes it is a reality check... ODIs are lot diff from tests....I hope RD wakes up... and I have faith in top 4 plus yuvi..... they will definitely turn this around... I wish sehwag was playing....but we still have Dhoni... I miss the fielding trio of yuvi, kaif and raina..... also PC was not impressive at all, we need Ramesh powar and bhajji back...

India will win series 5-2

Hatebreed
August 22, 2007, 03:02 AM
Way to go England! Ah what a match. If they can maintain this quality of cricket, they deserve to win the series.

Sohel
August 22, 2007, 03:17 AM
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/889261166d.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

Bell and Cook show England the way
By Derek Pringle at the Rose Bowl

Maiden one-day hundreds by Alastair Cook and Ian Bell, followed by an incisive three-wicket burst from James Anderson, proved too much for India at the Rose Bowl, after England made 288 for two. Chasing such a big target is challenging whatever the conditions but under lights on a gloomy August evening it proved beyond even the visitors' stellar batting line-up.

It was a demolition, though the 104-run margin of victory will give England less cause to be happy than the manner, which oozed control. There was even a wicket for Andrew Flintoff, his first for England on home soil for more than 14 months after suffering a series of ankle injuries.

Big Freddie bowled fast and furious, his choirboy haircut at odds with the brutal energy he imparted on the ball, which, according to the speedgun, occasionally reached 92mph. It was certainly too much for Mahendra Dhoni, India's big hitter, taking 60 balls before gloving a short ball from Flintoff behind.

There was redemption too for Matt Prior. Pilloried for his dropped catches during the final Test at the Oval, Prior made some amends here, countering Rahul Dravid's fine sweep off Dimitri Mascarenhas with an even finer leg-side catch standing up. It was a crucial wicket and once the wall had been removed, for a solid 46, his team simply fell apart.

All of England's pace bowlers shone, though their task was made easier following Anderson's triple strike once, following Monty Panesar's nifty run-out of Sourav Ganguly, he had dismissed Gautam Gambhir, Sachin Tedulkar and Yuvraj Singh in his opening six overs. Of course Anderson's job was eased by Bell and Cook's hundreds, so the process began with them.

England's one-day cricket has suffered a paucity of hundreds, so to get two in the same match is riches indeed. But if you thought it might have rarity value, given England's recent poor record in one-day cricket, the feat was also achieved against Bangladesh in 2005 and West Indies in 2004.

Of the two here, Bell's was the more eye-catching, his 126 made at better than a run-a-ball, with 10 fours and a six. He played quite beautifully too, a man whose tactics, shot selection and execution were in perfect harmony.

The innings could prove a landmark, the one that floods the confidence part of his brain and places him on the threshold of greatness, though with Bell you just never know.

Leaning towards the cerebral end of the batting spectrum, yesterday's innings looked well thought through, a quality England's one-day teams have lacked in recent times. It was certainly more rounded than Cook's, but then this was his 48th one-day international to Cook's sixth.

Cook could be the new Strauss, sharing that batsman's mental plusses if not his off-side prowess. Taller than his fellow left-hander, Cook prefers to work the ball to leg which he does with great efficiency.

His other shots appear less convincing and one four off Chawla was little more than an ungainly heave.

With Owais Shah omitted here (he was the only batsman to make more than 100 runs in the recent one-day series against the West Indies), Cook's inclusion probably owed something to the overcast skies, which implied movement and therefore need for a proper opening batsman.

The conditions certainly seduced India into putting England in to bat, though the nip in the air was not followed by any off the pitch. The lack of movement did not induce a flurry of strokes and when the third powerplay had ended in the 20th over, only eight shots had reached or cleared the rope.

Despite the lack of boundaries, Cook and Bell gelled well in their 178-run partnership. One of their tactics was to run India ragged in the field. With the visitors containing three players older than 30 and two pace bowlers inclined to move like 40-year-olds, the pair pinched at least 25-30 runs a more athletic side would have prevented.

Their other ploy was to ensure that India's small army of part-time bowlers, Sachin Tedulkar, Sourav Ganguly and Yuvraj Singh, were treated like the lower ranks rather than top brass. With barely a slog played they ensured the trio's 13 overs cost 79 runs, expensive given their use in the middle part of the innings.

It was not the only shortcoming among India's bowlers. Without swing, Zaheer, Ajit Agarkar and Rudra Pratap Singh present a fairly tame bowling force, one made weaker by geriatric fielding. Dravid rang the changes, but they could not stem the heavy toll extracted by Bell's bat and Cook's clips and cuts.

Cook eventually went for 102, his stay ended when was bowled off the bottom-edge heaving at RP Singh in the 42nd over. It left Kevin Pietersen with precious little time to play himself in, though he still managed 33 off 27 balls.

But the lead role was shared by Bell and Cook, two young men whose progress in this form of the game will, you suspect, be closely linked to England's.

Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/08/22/scengl122.xml

Bengaliprince176
August 22, 2007, 03:35 AM
good win by england, shockin fielding by India.... and Dada :floor:!!! what was that running....typical Ganguly runing there, o well 6 more matches to go

MysoreHuli
August 22, 2007, 06:23 AM
Did Indian team really PLAY or the entire team just sleep walking on the ground?