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Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 10:41 AM
why not have mortaza for captian? no one plays with as much heart and dedication has he does, he is one player that cant be said is not consistent performer, he rises above his skill level, uses his brains to bowl and lately has started to bat also. not just that he is always looking to improve his skill ..

so why not keep ashraf as vice captain, send nafees to play domestic cricket along with basher omar rasel even rafique? domestic cricket is in pitiful state quality wise from what i read so far in here, what better way to help out such than to send players who have played in international test cricket to raise the standards even a bit?

in the mean time lets select players who are performing well in domestic cricket, between the ages of 22-29 give them a shot?

Nafi
May 28, 2007, 10:42 AM
Mortaza is going to be vice captain.

Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 10:46 AM
Mortaza is going to be vice captain.

well who is going to be captain? asfraf? i seriously hope he is not made captain yet, yes he has played many games and has a lot of experience, but he is just not ready for such a decisive role, he has to be kept as vice captain. and flash in the pan against zimbawae . nafees should be sent down to domestic level for some serious thinking ..making him vice captain was seriously harmful to him and bangladesh cricket, he didnt have the experience to be put in such position.

bharat
May 28, 2007, 10:56 AM
Overlooking Ash would be the biggest mistake BD would do ...he has the attitude and looked a natural capitan...remember Mash is a fast bowler prone to injuries, what BD needs is a captain who leads from the front ..ASH foe mr

irteja
May 28, 2007, 10:58 AM
আবস্যই মাশরাফি। একজন ভালো অধিনায়ক হওয়া উচিত যে বিশ্বমানের ক্রিকেটার , যার ভালো উপস্থিত বুদ্ধি আছে। মাসরি অনেক দিন ধরে আমাদের ধারাবাহিক ভালো খেলে আসছে, অনেক পরিশ্রমি ফিল্ডার, খুব প্রয়োজনি নিচের দিকের ব্যাটস্ম্যান। দলের তার আবস্থান স্থায়ি, আগামি ৫ বছরের জন্য, দলের অনেক খেলোয়ারের থেকে অভিজ্ঞ। মাঠে সব সময় ১০০ ভাগ বিলিয়ে দেয়, অনেক আক্রমনাত্তক, দলের সহ খেলোয়ারদের সব সময় উৎসাহ দেন।

pilot fan
May 28, 2007, 11:11 AM
no way never never never

BanCricFan
May 28, 2007, 11:27 AM
Overlooking Ash would be the biggest mistake BD would do ...he has the attitude and looked a natural capitan...remember Mash is a fast bowler prone to injuries, what BD needs is a captain who leads from the front ..ASH foe mr

Word for word, I could not have put it better! We have a true Indian well wisher of BD cricket here!

rah
May 28, 2007, 11:32 AM
for the forthcoming sereis i think masri will be the one day vice captain

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 11:32 AM
Oh, the most intelligent thing I heard since Bashar electing to field. Mortaza for captain? Ever heard of a certain Andrew Flintoff, or a certain Wasim Akram? Both of them were wonderful cricketers (except Flintoff..overrated...) before being handed the captaincy, for example, Flintoff took 18 wickets in the Ashes and averaged 33, but, after being handed the captaincy, he sank to even lower levels...he barely took a wicket against Sri Lanka in the home series etc. The point I am trying to put across is that Flintoff dipped in performance, we certainly do not want that happening to Mortaza, who is our best crickter; perhaps ever. He is scoring at a good rate and his bowling has become much better; let him expand his potential, then, let us test his leadership skills. He is too young. Give it to a pro.

Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 11:36 AM
Oh, the most intelligent thing I heard since Bashar electing to field. Mortaza for captain? Ever heard of a certain Andrew Flintoff, or a certain Wasim Akram? Both of them were wonderful cricketers (except Flintoff..overrated...) before being handed the captaincy, for example, Flintoff took 18 wickets in the Ashes and averaged 33, but, after being handed the captaincy, he sank to even lower levels...he barely took a wicket against Sri Lanka in the home series etc. The point I am trying to put across is that Flintoff dipped in performance, we certainly do not want that happening to Mortaza, who is our best crickter; perhaps ever. He is scoring at a good rate and his bowling has become much better; let him expand his potential, then, let us test his leadership skills. He is too young. Give it to a pro.

so i suppose in your infinite wisdom and truly smart ways, give it to ashraf, who at best is inconsistent and i highly doubt is ready for captaincy .. and have him lose his form altogether like so many batmen who turned captain? afterall bangladesh batsmen are so good we can afford to lose ashraf by your logic right?

btw mortaza can indeed become likr imran khan, who was medicore from what i read so far before he was entrusted with captaincy, ever thought about that?

zahid
May 28, 2007, 11:44 AM
Anon, are u aware that Ash and Rahim captains in the League ?

Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 11:49 AM
Anon, are u aware that Ash and Rahim captains in the League ?

wasnt aware, but lets look at what you just wrote rahim is the captain of his team.. surely then once cant take domestic captaincy seriously.. now can we?

its time for imagination, thinking outside the box.
how many times have we seen mortaza pissed off at the field placing? how many times have we seen mortaza leading from the front? how many times have we seen him excel? how many times have we seen him being our last hope?

yes you can say he had been injured way too many times before, but if you look at professional baseball or hockey out here in north america, its littered with great players being injury prone while growing, even gerrard of liverpool was injury prone since his body was growing as its also the case with mortaza, but look how each turned out to be?

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 11:49 AM
so i suppose in your infinite wisdom and truly smart ways, give it to ashraf, who at best is inconsistent and i highly doubt is ready for captaincy .. and have him lose his form altogether like so many batmen who turned captain? afterall bangladesh batsmen are so good we can afford to lose ashraf by your logic right?

btw mortaza can indeed become likr imran khan, who was medicore from what i read so far before he was entrusted with captaincy, ever thought about that?

The fact that Mortaza is consistent is what we want to preserve. Vaughan is inconsistent, yet, he is tactically a brilliant captain; Ashraful has some brains; he can do ok, but, Ashraful is even younger than Mortaza, so logically, I don't see where you're coming from, as I didn't suggest to pick someone young, but a pro, yeah he played a 100 games but so what.

What BD needs is a captain that can tame the youth. Tame Tamim Iqbal. Can you do that? Bashar couldn't; hence our inconsistently. This oscillates perfectly well with weak leadership. I say give to Rafiq, and, see how it goes.

You cannot nurture or turn someone into a captain, you can only have captains who were born captains. Do you honestly think Mortaza even knows what a slip or a gully is? Or even mid-on? No. He doesn't have a brilliant tactical cricketing brain; just a good standardised cricketing prowess which he is currently understanding. Let him understand. Remember; he still averages below 20, way below 20 with the bat and nearly 40 with the ball in Tests ,he is by no means there yet to be captain.

* YOU JUST DID NOT PUT MORTAZA IN THE SAME LINE AS IMRAN KHAN............Mortaza is good, but there's Imran, then there is daylight, then there is night ,then there is dawn and THEN there is Mortaza. Imran wasn't mediocre; he was crap; its because he couldn't actualise himself. He was an in-and-out quickie; and reckless; but monstrously talented. The fact that he didn't have a good leader is what proved to be his shaky opening start. He didn't even have a mark up!!!!!

Mortaza has had a good coach etc. and still he is no way near what Imran was when he recieved coaching. Just ask England....

Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 11:59 AM
The fact that Mortaza is consistent is what we want to preserve. Vaughan is inconsistent, yet, he is tactically a brilliant captain; Ashraful has some brains; he can do ok, but, Ashraful is even younger than Mortaza, so logically, I don't see where you're coming from, as I didn't suggest to pick someone young, but a pro, yeah he played a 100 games but so what.

What BD needs is a captain that can tame the youth. Tame Tamim Iqbal. Can you do that? Bashar couldn't; hence our inconsistently. This oscillates perfectly well with weak leadership. I say give to Rafiq, and, see how it goes.

You cannot nurture or turn someone into a captain, you can only have captains who were born captains. Do you honestly think Mortaza even knows what a slip or a gully is? Or even mid-on? No. He doesn't have a brilliant tactical cricketing brain; just a good standardised cricketing prowess which he is currently understanding. Let him understand. Remember; he still averages below 20, way below 20 with the bat and nearly 40 with the ball in Tests ,he is by no means there yet to be captain.

* YOU JUST DID NOT PUT MORTAZA IN THE SAME LINE AS IMRAN KHAN............Mortaza is good, but there's Imran, then there is daylight, then there is night ,then there is dawn and THEN there is Mortaza. Imran wasn't mediocre; he was crap; its because he couldn't actualise himself. He was an in-and-out quickie; and reckless; but monstrously talented. The fact that he didn't have a good leader is what proved to be his shaky opening start. He didn't even have a mark up!!!!!

Mortaza has had a good coach etc. and still he is no way near what Imran was when he recieved coaching. Just ask England....

your cliches however unnecessary is truly boring and irrelevant, i suppose this is what is wrong with the bengali mentality, either laissez faire attitude or inferitority complex, no imagination always playing defense, what was imrans average before he became captain and hence great? why cant mortaze excel and become as great he is? he has youth on his side, he has dedication on his side he has from what i have seen best cricket smarts of anyone in bangladesh.

yes he is growing, why cant he grow along with the job? pakistan took the risk with malik, who wasnt even a regular, you actually think .. mortaza who is by most accounts a feet taller and atleast 20 - 40 lbs heavier than most other bangladeshi players cant intimidate the youngsters and get them fall in line?
he is playing professional cricket and you mean to tell me he doesnt know what gully is? you must be kidding yourself or living in a world where your thoughts reign supreme without much discussion ..

cmon .. now

Sohel
May 28, 2007, 12:19 PM
why not have mortaza for captian? no one plays with as much heart and dedication has he does, he is one player that cant be said is not consistent performer, he rises above his skill level, uses his brains to bowl and lately has started to bat also. not just that he is always looking to improve his skill ..

so why not keep ashraf as vice captain, send nafees to play domestic cricket along with basher omar rasel even rafique? domestic cricket is in pitiful state quality wise from what i read so far in here, what better way to help out such than to send players who have played in international test cricket to raise the standards even a bit?

in the mean time lets select players who are performing well in domestic cricket, between the ages of 22-29 give them a shot?

dude... what does captaincy mean to you? what's the job description of a captain? what are the skills, qualifications and atributes needed to do the job? think deep, hard, and all the way through... then post. :)

CricTiger
May 28, 2007, 12:23 PM
আবস্যই মাশরাফি। একজন ভালো অধিনায়ক হওয়া উচিত যে বিশ্বমানের ক্রিকেটার , যার ভালো উপস্থিত বুদ্ধি আছে। মাসরি অনেক দিন ধরে আমাদের ধারাবাহিক ভালো খেলে আসছে, অনেক পরিশ্রমি ফিল্ডার, খুব প্রয়োজনি নিচের দিকের ব্যাটস্ম্যান। দলের তার আবস্থান স্থায়ি, আগামি ৫ বছরের জন্য, দলের অনেক খেলোয়ারের থেকে অভিজ্ঞ। মাঠে সব সময় ১০০ ভাগ বিলিয়ে দেয়, অনেক আক্রমনাত্তক, দলের সহ খেলোয়ারদের সব সময় উৎসাহ দেন।
Let him enjoy the game for a while and then time will tell .As of now, either Ash or Aftab (may be).Mash will be the VC that's a good start for him.

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 12:24 PM
your cliches however unnecessary is truly boring and irrelevant, i suppose this is what is wrong with the bengali mentality, either laissez faire attitude or inferitority complex, no imagination always playing defense, what was imrans average before he became captain and hence great? why cant mortaze excel and become as great he is? he has youth on his side, he has dedication on his side he has from what i have seen best cricket smarts of anyone in bangladesh.

yes he is growing, why cant he grow along with the job? pakistan took the risk with malik, who wasnt even a regular, you actually think .. mortaza who is by most accounts a feet taller and atleast 20 - 40 lbs heavier than most other bangladeshi players cant intimidate the youngsters and get them fall in line?
he is playing professional cricket and you mean to tell me he doesnt know what gully is? you must be kidding yourself or living in a world where your thoughts reign supreme without much discussion ..

cmon .. now

Inferiority Complex? You're the one going on about height and weight and how thats going to dominate the youngsters. Malik isn't much of a regular yes, but he averages 35+ and is currently averaging 45; more than anyone at the moment at no.3. He is more pro than Mortaza. Mortaza is a bright prospect, but he's no Imran. You obviously have no consensus of the concept sarcasm when I said the word 'gully'.

We are inferior in everything save our massive hearts. Hearts won't win you medals; it'll boost your courage and make you more charismatic; which in turn is a portico to winning medals; if we can tame our hearts to the right path..then. Mortaza scored two half centuries against India. Most think of the Dravids and the Sachins and the Gangulies..but the Indian Bowling attack is extremely rubbish. I doubt Mortaza will do that against Australia...or Pakistan...

He will improve, but dumping captaincy on a strategically weak mind is not the right option. Malik is not talented; he is a workhorse, but he can tactically manipulate methods of winning matches. Mortaza has raw talent; but his cricketing mind is doubtable.

Imran is special.

Infact, Imran was dropped after one test, and, after that, he started improving. But one thing for sure, Mortaza will not end up with as many 5-fers and 10-fers as Imran, nor be as good a batsman. Mortaza can be compared with Afridi a bit.

Hatebreed
May 28, 2007, 12:31 PM
Mortaza was my original choice for captaincy, but Ashraful, since becoming VC has displayed spark of brilliance during his temporary role as captain. He also has prior experience in domestic league, so I think he's a good candidate for captaincy. Mashrafe is probably our most consistent performer, so I think VC would still be a good position for him without adding too much pressure on his role.

Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 12:39 PM
dude... what does captaincy mean to you? what's the job description of a captain? what are the skills, qualifications and atributes needed to do the job? think deep, hard, and all the way through... then post. :)

simple, leadership skills .. someone who can insprire and lead from the front, someone who has smarts to understand the situation who is active in field setting with pre emptive measures not take actions after the fact.
infact some like Steve yzerman, from hockey.

mortaza i believe has the right mix, he is still fresh and has growth potential more than anyone. I used imran khan as an example cause imran khan took an inconsistent pakistan team which was extremely talented but lacked coherency, he was able to form them into a collective group and look how well pakistan did under his captaincy and how they did before and after him.

a genuine leader is needed .. who can motivate and intimidate, i dont see anyone else in bangladesh team who has the built for that role .. either physically or mentally ..

Murad
May 28, 2007, 12:45 PM
jei valo kore.. taake captaincy diye dao...SIMPLE.. right Mr./Ms Anon kafka?

I dont think Mortaza will a good option for the captainy role. Hes a good player... He will be doing good the way hes now.. and don't try to destroy his bowling by giving captaincy.. besides, I never heard him doing captaincy in any team..

Ashraful has captained for many teams.. He's been doing captaincy for long time.. He has more experience than anyone else in the team.

Don't know what your thinking level is.. To you whoever does good, he should become the captain.. lets say Razzak made a century in the SL tour.. you will be bugging to him captain as well.. i don't blame you.. as theres millions of fans like you..

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 12:45 PM
simple, leadership skills .. someone who can insprire and lead from the front, someone who has smarts to understand the situation who is active in field setting with pre emptive measures not take actions after the fact.
infact some like Steve yzerman, from hockey.

mortaza i believe has the right mix, he is still fresh and has growth potential more than anyone. I used imran khan as an example cause imran khan took an inconsistent pakistan team which was extremely talented but lacked coherency, he was able to form them into a collective group and look how well pakistan did under his captaincy and how they did before and after him.

a genuine leader is needed .. who can motivate and intimidate, i dont see anyone else in bangladesh team who has the built for that role .. either physically or mentally ..

I agree with Sohel and Hatebreed; but you cannot erase memories of an Imran who was crap in the beginning of his career; but only due to his monstrous talent was he able to turn himself around and become so good, he was a better player older than he was younger, as he averaged 51 with the bat and 19 with the ball. That was when he was older and used to the pressure. Mashrafe will probably end up with figures like that if there were rotated vice versa if he is dumped with the pressure. Not everyone is Imran.

Mashrafe is not smart. Mashrafe isn't too charismatic and lively. He is quiet.

Intimidate? Who is Mashrafe trying to be? Conan the Barbarian. He won't be able to; there are players on the team that'll kick his but for that matter (Shahadat...cough...) if it comes to intimidating.

Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 01:05 PM
jei valo kore.. taake captaincy diye dao...SIMPLE.. right Mr./Ms Anon kafka?

I dont think Mortaza will a good option for the captainy role. Hes a good player... He will be doing good the way hes now.. and don't try to destroy his bowling by giving captaincy.. besides, I never heard him doing captaincy in any team..

Ashraful has captained for many teams.. He's been doing captaincy for long time.. He has more experience than anyone else in the team.

Don't know what your thinking level is.. To you whoever does good, he should become the captain.. lets say Razzak made a century in the SL tour.. you will be bugging to him captain as well.. i don't blame you.. as theres millions of fans like you..

no unfortunately i am not thinking like that, what i am surely thinking about is, bangladesh needs a single steady captain for the next 5 years around whom a team can be built, something like foundation, it is done in other sports and even in business when teams/ business is in turmoil, seek out the core and seek out the foundation, have the core for some time, while others are groomed, build the team around the foundation. such ways it will be a single contineous team. such is what bangladesh neeeds at this moment, forward thinking not holding on to the past, ashraf so what he has captained many teams, do u want the team built around ashraf? focus is needed, if that means discarding many players who just stands get on with the team program so be it, ruthless efficiency is needed at all levels.

so a question, in such scenerio, who all would u nominate as foundation around whom a team is to be built and who all would be core 3-4 players?

why cant bangladesh be ruthless like such?

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 01:08 PM
Bangladesh cannot be ruthless because there are no remains left after we collapse. We have nothing. Save a bunch of players who are with scattered mentality.

Mashrafe is at best Vice Captain.

Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 01:12 PM
I agree with Sohel and Hatebreed; but you cannot erase memories of an Imran who was crap in the beginning of his career; but only due to his monstrous talent was he able to turn himself around and become so good, he was a better player older than he was younger, as he averaged 51 with the bat and 19 with the ball. That was when he was older and used to the pressure. Mashrafe will probably end up with figures like that if there were rotated vice versa if he is dumped with the pressure. Not everyone is Imran.

Mashrafe is not smart. Mashrafe isn't too charismatic and lively. He is quiet.

Intimidate? Who is Mashrafe trying to be? Conan the Barbarian. He won't be able to; there are players on the team that'll kick his but for that matter (Shahadat...cough...) if it comes to intimidating.

charisma is a developed skill sometime and is highly overrated, once again to use north american teams as an example, derek jeter before he was given captaincy was thought of as such too, he was too quiet, not to lively, talented but not up2 par with greats, he isnt charismatic, now look what has happened? team was built around him, yes at great expense, but he was the foundation around which the team was built, even look at the colts of the NFL, they built a team around manning, look at dallas stars of past, they built a team around troy aikman, look at ottawa sens, they rebuilt the whole team after the yashin fiasco and was built it around alfredson same things you are saying now was said about him, and look where his team is now.

cut away from the pastm wholesale development needed .. cut away loose fat and have the mentality of perform or perish attitude, u dont perform once well get ready to dropped right away. welcome to the professional world

Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 01:14 PM
Bangladesh cannot be ruthless because there are no remains left after we collapse. We have nothing. Save a bunch of players who are with scattered mentality.

Mashrafe is at best Vice Captain.

hence foundation and core needed, core will be discarded as soon as the pipeline is up2 par. if such doesnt happen now, it never will, team should be run like a business, one line doesnt work, fire the bunch ..

BangladeshFan
May 28, 2007, 01:16 PM
how quick imran was? i heard from several accounts, at his best he was clocking 90 mph which is way slower than todays shoaib or lee. but he could generate good movement and thats why was difficult to play. batting wise, i think imran was nothing special. restricted in a few strokes, he used his power for big hitting. i hope mortaza will become better than that in future. but i dont think, there is daylight, dawnlight etc. whatever...... between imran and moratza.

Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 01:35 PM
how quick imran was? i heard from several accounts, at his best he was clocking 90 mph which is way slower than todays shoaib or lee. but he could generate good movement and thats why was difficult to play. batting wise, i think imran was nothing special. restricted in a few strokes, he used his power for big hitting. i hope mortaza will become better than that in future. but i dont think, there is daylight, dawnlight etc. whatever...... between imran and moratza.

exactly!!

2ndly we should also remember bangladesh has been playing test cricket for 7 years now and oneday/1st class cricket for 10 years now. name another professional team in the world in any league which will use "newborn", "building", "growing" team after such a long time, if it were any other professional league it would surely have been relegated long time ago and in north american context would have face ruin.

so bangladesh team should be run how a professional team is run, look at all successful teams, australia had their team built around ponting, south africa built around the bigot graeme smith, srilanka built around jaywardne after their recent turmoil, while they had a few core players in vass, murli, jaya. I am not saying any bangladeshi player is that good, but it would be atleast worthwhile to build around someone talented and has dedication.

such should be bangladesh's approach, not a bunch of rag tag incoherent group of semi professionals professing to be professional and not performing.

if pipeline is so bad, bangladesh should severely cut back from international cricket schedule and get the domestic league u2 par, instead of playing international teams playing so often, bangladesh should have a select group of bangladesh 11, which would play against MCC, other county teams, pura cup teams even participate in ranji, duleep tournament.

get regional school boards playing feeding the pipeline, , divional teams should have leagues within them from which it will take players from, , school coaches giving input to divisional teams on future players. build it up from ground level not top down as it has been done in bangladesh.

Sohel
May 28, 2007, 01:47 PM
simple, leadership skills .. someone who can insprire and lead from the front, someone who has smarts to understand the situation who is active in field setting with pre emptive measures not take actions after the fact.
infact some like Steve yzerman, from hockey.

mortaza i believe has the right mix, he is still fresh and has growth potential more than anyone. I used imran khan as an example cause imran khan took an inconsistent pakistan team which was extremely talented but lacked coherency, he was able to form them into a collective group and look how well pakistan did under his captaincy and how they did before and after him.

a genuine leader is needed .. who can motivate and intimidate, i dont see anyone else in bangladesh team who has the built for that role .. either physically or mentally ..

i'm afraid it's a bit more than that bro. it's all in the details and individual trees count more than the general idea of the forest here, you dig? cricket is not hockey, and mash is not stevie y, mark messier, or nick lidstrom for that matter... yet. first and foremost, mash is injury-prone and needs to focus on that. he's had TWO reconstructive knee surgeries, one more can end his career. that chronic, niggling, lower back pain can become a major issue if neglected. secondly, he is not interested in the extra responsibility, and wants to become a better bowler more than anything else. thirdly, he's evolving as a genuine all-rounder at his own pace, and should not be goaded into anything at this point. the name irfan pat'han, mash's good buddy BTW, ring a bell?

your observations about his leadership quality doesn't escape us mere mortals as much as you may think it might. do a little reaseach about ash and discover why he's the better man for the job. that's what mash thinks also BTW. he'll be made VC and will have the opportunity to cultivate those qualities and become a great captain someday. maybe like imran khan even. he'll spend a few years as vice captain, fill in when ash is missing. captancy is a lot of pressure and specific experience counts. vice captaincy can do just that for him. you're a smart and articulate cat, don't lose yourself in your strengths. do the reasearch and make yourself stronger bro.

BTW, ash captained his clubside from a losing position to the playoffs, and captained dhaka to national championships. he's captaincy during HaBa's little nap, and later toilet breaks during the last test series. his captaincy impressed cricket gurus from everywhere. those men played the game at the highest level and made cricket their life's work and passion. they're all tough nuts to crack. take a little heed. here's a link on the ash captaincy. hit it if you wanna.

http://snr1967.blogspot.com/2007/04/case-for-possible-ashraful-captaincy.html

dig the name BTW, anything to do with the amazing murakami novel? or is it just franz?

peace bro... :)

Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 01:53 PM
lol, its my real name .. lol .. my father is an avid reader of kafka as i am, as well anon is sorta bengali version of the word "anono" or something like that which i am told means unique .. given by my mom .. see what happens when two ppl come together grr .. lol


now a question for you, would you build a team around Ashraf? or have him as one of the core players? if you have him as one of the core player, he shouldnt be captain, if he is to be a foundation player, then by all means he is the captain. bangladesh i believe must act now, or it will never reach its true potential.

stevie Y had injury problems when was young, and now and forever he will be known as captain canada.

p.s i have been secretly reading your blog long before i even joined the forums, its well written and very insightful, even on rare times when i disagree i am unable to discard your reasons, which means respect, keep it up.

Sohel
May 28, 2007, 02:01 PM
lol, its my real name .. lol .. my father is an avid reader of kafka as i am, as well anon is sorta bengali version of the word "anono" or something like that which i am told means unique .. given by my mom .. see what happens when two ppl come together grr .. lol


now a question for you, would you build a team around Ashraf? or have him as one of the core players? if you have him as one of the core player, he shouldnt be captain, if he is to be a foundation player, then by all means he is the captain. bangladesh i believe must act now, or it will never reach its true potential.

stevie Y had injury problems when was young, and now and forever he will be known as captain canada.

p.s i have been secretly reading your blog long before i even joined the forums, its well written and very insightful, even on rare times when i disagree i am unable to discard your reasons, which means respect, keep it up.

he has shown that he can take it and then some. the players listen to him also. he's the type of rarity that thrives under pressure, kinda like stevie y ... he he he after all that jazz huh? maybe ponting's a better analogy. audacious but better nevertheless. brave new world ahead bro. welcome to cricket. glad you read bro. stay cool... :)

Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 02:08 PM
he has shown that he can take it and then some. the players listen to him also. he's the type of rarity that thrives under pressure, kinda like stevie y ... he he he after all that jazz huh? maybe ponting's a better analogy. audacious but better nevertheless. brave new world ahead bro. welcome to cricket. glad you read bro. stay cool... :)


okie, then let me ask you, name one person as foundation (which i understand is ashraf for you) around whom you will built the team ..

so who will u have for core 3-5 players who are overtime discardable... lets see it as a true business or how professional teams around the world is run,

i was thinking in the lines of .. mortaza as the foundation around whom the team is built, ashraf, tamim, nafis iqbal, saquib and maybe aftab/ masfiq as the core group at this moment.

Sohel
May 28, 2007, 02:13 PM
okie, then let me ask you, name one person as foundation (which i understand is ashraf for you) around whom you will built the team ..

so who will u have for core 3-5 players who are overtime discardable... lets see it as a true business or how professional teams around the world is run,

i was thinking in the lines of .. mortaza as the foundation around whom the team is built, ashraf, tamim, nafis iqbal, saquib and maybe aftab/ masfiq as the core group at this moment.

different players have different roles to play, sorta like different lines in hockey. there's no one player. my core group will consist of ash, mash, tamim, shakzie, and alok. stay tuned for dream team for the lanka tour in this very post. i'll edit that in.

here it is: -

here are my sides with respective batting orders: -

TEST

1. Tamim Iqbal Khan
2. Nafis Iqbal Khan
3. Mushfiqur Rahim (WK)
4. Md. Ashraful Matin (Captain)
5. Alok Kapali
6. Shakib Al Hasan
7. Aftab Ahmed
8. Mashrafee Bin Murtaza (Vice Captain)
9. Md. Rafiq
10. Shahadat Hossein
11. Dollar Mahmud

12th Man: Rajin Saleh

Reserves: Enamul Haq Jr, Talha Jubair, Nadif Chaudhury, Dhiman Ghosh (WK)

ODI

1. Tamim Iqbal Khan
2. Junaid Siddique
3. Nafis Iqbal Khan
4. Md. Ashraful Matin (Captain)
5. Alok Kapali
6. Shakib Al Hasan
7. Aftab Ahmed
8. Mashrafee Bin Murtaza (Vice Captain)
9. Mushfiqur Rahim (WK)
10. Shahadat Hossein
11. Abdur Razzak

12th Man: Forhad Reza (as batsman only... maybe an over or two of that gentle medium pace if we HAVE to)

Reserves: Shahriar Nafees Ahmed, Syed Rasel, Ziaur Rahman, Dhiman Ghosh (WK)

after rafiq retires i'll tuck enam in there.

GoldenAsif
May 28, 2007, 02:27 PM
I think Mashee has shown many times that when the going gets tough, the tough get going or in his case when Bangladesh starts getting mashed, Mashee starts mashing. :P

Certain people thrive on challenge and adversity. When we have needed Mashee he has always performed. I believe if entrusted with the noble duty of being the captain of our national team (I purposefully omit national "[B]cricket[/B"] team, since cricket is our national sport and our cricket team are in that context are our "national team"), of being the captain of a team supported by 140 million people then if we look at his track record, Mashee will come good.

Cometh the hour, cometh the man.

Also I sincerely believe from seeing his facial expression, the emotions written on his face, his performances when BD were in deep trouble that he does not have the passive inferiority complex others may have (this is no allusion to Bashar bhai, I don't think he has that) but he is a true tiger giving it his best.

I think he can be Imran Khan-like in the sense of inspiring his colleagues to do better and to lead from the front and by example.

;)

GO MASH!

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 03:36 PM
charisma is a developed skill sometime and is highly overrated, once again to use north american teams as an example, derek jeter before he was given captaincy was thought of as such too, he was too quiet, not to lively, talented but not up2 par with greats, he isnt charismatic, now look what has happened? team was built around him, yes at great expense, but he was the foundation around which the team was built, even look at the colts of the NFL, they built a team around manning, look at dallas stars of past, they built a team around troy aikman, look at ottawa sens, they rebuilt the whole team after the yashin fiasco and was built it around alfredson same things you are saying now was said about him, and look where his team is now.

cut away from the pastm wholesale development needed .. cut away loose fat and have the mentality of perform or perish attitude, u dont perform once well get ready to dropped right away. welcome to the professional world

Thanks for comparing NFL, a game which is laid by passing and teamwork with a very individual game like Cricket...great going...:waiting:

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 03:38 PM
I think Mashee has shown many times that when the going gets tough, the tough get going or in his case when Bangladesh starts getting mashed, Mashee starts mashing. :P

Certain people thrive on challenge and adversity. When we have needed Mashee he has always performed. I believe if entrusted with the noble duty of being the captain of our national team (I purposefully omit national "[B]cricket[/B"] team, since cricket is our national sport and our cricket team are in that context are our "national team"), of being the captain of a team supported by 140 million people then if we look at his track record, Mashee will come good.

Cometh the hour, cometh the man.

Also I sincerely believe from seeing his facial expression, the emotions written on his face, his performances when BD were in deep trouble that he does not have the passive inferiority complex others may have (this is no allusion to Bashar bhai, I don't think he has that) but he is a true tiger giving it his best.

I think he can be Imran Khan-like in the sense of inspiring his colleagues to do better and to lead from the front and by example.

;)

GO MASH!

You're getting mixed up with the Flintoff of 05. That's what Mashrafe is like now...what happened to Flintoff...and now what will happen to Mashrafe...WORSE...only this time, a population of 150 million are waiting to pounce.

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 03:42 PM
okie, then let me ask you, name one person as foundation (which i understand is ashraf for you) around whom you will built the team ..

so who will u have for core 3-5 players who are overtime discardable... lets see it as a true business or how professional teams around the world is run,

i was thinking in the lines of .. mortaza as the foundation around whom the team is built, ashraf, tamim, nafis iqbal, saquib and maybe aftab/ masfiq as the core group at this moment.

Dude, Bd is a team like this:

Seasoned Pros
Getting theres
No way near there
Useless piece of ****
Bright Prospects

Mashrafe the core for which the apple is enshrouded? No. Mashrafe is produce (i.e. the seed) of the core. He is what we aim to produce due to the captaincy and guidance of SENIORS; (I.E Waqar Younis at Mashrafe's age was Shahadatlike. Imran, then in his latish 20s to early 30s I think made him the man who he is...same with Wasim....and Wasim did that to Shoaib). A chain reaction. Mashrafe is by no way near to do such jobs for the young cricketers we have. Hence we need leaders who are seniorish.

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 03:47 PM
how quick imran was? i heard from several accounts, at his best he was clocking 90 mph which is way slower than todays shoaib or lee. but he could generate good movement and thats why was difficult to play. batting wise, i think imran was nothing special. restricted in a few strokes, he used his power for big hitting. i hope mortaza will become better than that in future. but i dont think, there is daylight, dawnlight etc. whatever...... between imran and moratza.


1. Imran was the worlds THIRD fastest bowler then (Jeff Thompson, Holding then Imran). That is like saying.....1. Akhtar 2. Tait. 3. Lee then. If Lee is super quick, Imran was so then.
Imran's bowling is immaterial with Mashrafe. HE WILL never reach such heights. You must be 10. Imran could bowl out a team full of the Gowers, Gooches, Gavaskars, Borders, Boons, The Vivs, the Clives the Haynes'...ring a bell???? IMRAN IS RANKED IN THE TOP 5 GREATEST BOWLERS EVER (ICC mind you)...and you are saying Mashrafe can catch up???

Imran was a good batsman who averaged 51 with the bat throughout the ending part of his career. Anyone who averages 50+ cannot have 'restricted' shots can they? But point taken, he's no Viv Richards....but he certainly is Marshall...

By the way, Mashrafes shots.........:doh:

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 03:49 PM
he has shown that he can take it and then some. the players listen to him also. he's the type of rarity that thrives under pressure, kinda like stevie y ... he he he after all that jazz huh? maybe ponting's a better analogy. audacious but better nevertheless. brave new world ahead bro. welcome to cricket. glad you read bro. stay cool... :)

Ponting isn't much of good captain; only a good fielding tactician...Ponting governs a team which operates kinetically; no hassle, just free flowing confident cricket. Bangladesh needs about 10 years or so to get to that level...

Anher
May 28, 2007, 03:56 PM
----------------------------------

thank you very much for the welcome, I am from Canada, just recently am getting into the game of cricket

Thats your post into another your starting thread. At this point i am really scared to digest any of your thoughts about Captaincy. Its true leaders born naturally but need experience to be a true leader

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 04:18 PM
Thats your post into another your starting thread. At this point i am really scared to digest any of your thoughts about Captaincy. Its true leaders born naturally but need experience to be a true leader

I started cricket since 99, and I when I was starting I used to say stuff like look at football...and attempt to analogise it into cricket. I used to you know, look at one player at one series and say make him captain, at times forgetting the SUBSISTING force behind that player that let him progress in the series.That is a good captain that makes a cricketer excel.

Watch Wasim Akram Pioneers of Cricket. He didn't have a clue where to bowl. Every ball he bowled was told to him by Imran. It was Wasims ability + Imrans tuition/guile that got him so much further than the rest. If Mashrafe is the captain...imagine the fate of our bowlers.....:sick:

BangladeshFan
May 28, 2007, 06:01 PM
1. Imran was the worlds THIRD fastest bowler then (Jeff Thompson, Holding then Imran). That is like saying.....1. Akhtar 2. Tait. 3. Lee then. If Lee is super quick, Imran was so then.
Imran's bowling is immaterial with Mashrafe. HE WILL never reach such heights. You must be 10. Imran could bowl out a team full of the Gowers, Gooches, Gavaskars, Borders, Boons, The Vivs, the Clives the Haynes'...ring a bell???? IMRAN IS RANKED IN THE TOP 5 GREATEST BOWLERS EVER (ICC mind you)...and you are saying Mashrafe can catch up???

Imran was a good batsman who averaged 51 with the bat throughout the ending part of his career. Anyone who averages 50+ cannot have 'restricted' shots can they? But point taken, he's no Viv Richards....but he certainly is Marshall...

By the way, Mashrafes shots.........:doh:

a batsman doesnt face 3rd fastest or 2nd fastest in the world, he faces the delivery. it was as difficult to face a 90 mph bowler then as it is now. speed wise mashrafi can be quick as imran, that was my point. and lee is about 10 mph quicker than your imran, so no comparison in terms of speed.

i dont know how many times imran has gone through a team full of "Gowers, Gooches, Gavaskars, Borders, Boons, The Vivs, the Clives the Haynes'". A team cant have that many good batsmen with fat averages, can it? i ve seen imran bowl against richards, kapil etc. and several times got spanked by them. top 5 greatest bowlers in which meausre? cricket is played for more than 100 yrs, i can name 5 who i think is better than imran any day and dont have go long past to do it.

imran test av. is 37. he may have become better in batting in later part of his career which he had to because his bowling was becoming non existant. in 92 WC he was bowling in 70 mph or something and a shagged old man. he was coming in no.3, scored 44 in 93 balls in the semi and 72 in 110 balls in the final (which were bashar like and slow enough to make pakistan lose either match), thanks to inzi and akram that imran could lift the trophy ending his career a great man........... This probably make him over rated than what he actually was.

cricketlvr
May 28, 2007, 06:01 PM
Oh, the most intelligent thing I heard since Bashar electing to field. Mortaza for captain? Ever heard of a certain Andrew Flintoff, or a certain Wasim Akram? Both of them were wonderful cricketers (except Flintoff..overrated...) before being handed the captaincy, for example, Flintoff took 18 wickets in the Ashes and averaged 33, but, after being handed the captaincy, he sank to even lower levels...he barely took a wicket against Sri Lanka in the home series etc. The point I am trying to put across is that Flintoff dipped in performance, we certainly do not want that happening to Mortaza, who is our best crickter; perhaps ever. He is scoring at a good rate and his bowling has become much better; let him expand his potential, then, let us test his leadership skills. He is too young. Give it to a pro.

I don't agree that Mortaza is too young and is not a pro. I think he may be a good captain. But, I agree that he shouldn't become captain right now. I don't want him to dip in performance like Flintoff as he is the best cricketer we have. Just let him play his "natural game" and improve his performance further as vice captain.

AsifTheManRahman
May 28, 2007, 06:01 PM
Word for word, I could not have put it better! We have a true Indian well wisher of BD cricket here!

yeah it's gotta be ash, for obvious reasons.

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 06:26 PM
a batsman doesnt face 3rd fastest or 2nd fastest in the world, he faces the delivery. it was as difficult to face a 90 mph bowler then as it is now. speed wise mashrafi can be quick as imran, that was my point. and lee is about 10 mph quicker than your imran, so no comparison in terms of speed.

i dont know how many times imran has gone through a team full of "Gowers, Gooches, Gavaskars, Borders, Boons, The Vivs, the Clives the Haynes'". A team cant have that many good batsmen with fat averages, can it? i ve seen imran bowl against richards, kapil etc. and several times got spanked by them. top 5 greatest bowlers in which meausre? cricket is played for more than 100 yrs, i can name 5 who i think is better than imran any day and dont have go long past to do it.

imran test av. is 37. he may have become better in batting in later part of his career which he had to because his bowling was becoming non existant. in 92 WC he was bowling in 70 mph or something and a shagged old man. he was coming in no.3, scored 44 in 93 balls in the semi and 72 in 110 balls in the final (which were bashar like and slow enough to make pakistan lose either match), thanks to inzi and akram that imran could lift the trophy ending his career a great man........... This probably make him over rated than what he actually was.

The deleviry is 90 mph max for Imran, but he hovered at 85+ most of the time. That plus his newfound ability to swing was what was instramental. Then in the world there were either Medium Fasts or Mediums, Imran and co brought in the Fast only into the equation; and for that; it was more difficult to face, as 90 mph was very rare then. Youtube Imran. He has gotten so many hauls.....
I didn't mean all those batsman in one team:doh: .. those were different Batsman from different teams...Imran got them out easy.

Imran got spanked yes, but his average is wonderful.

http://www.lgiccrankings.com/test/bowling/all-time-ranking.php
greatest ever bowler in my eyes. It takes time into account

Non-existent bowling?
Maybe in 92 , but in 87 he murdered all those Indians and Englishmen...he wasn't tip top young then..

Better he scored 72 at SUCH and old age than go for zero like Mashrafe most probably will go for next innings...
I DON' T HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE IN AN ARGUMENT about Mashrafe possibly being better than Imran...prepostrous.

Sohel
May 28, 2007, 06:32 PM
Ponting isn't much of good captain; only a good fielding tactician...Ponting governs a team which operates kinetically; no hassle, just free flowing confident cricket. Bangladesh needs about 10 years or so to get to that level...

interesting post doc. do you do birthdays also?

SideWinder
May 28, 2007, 07:30 PM
interesting post doc. do you do birthdays also?

Wa??:confused:

Anon Kafka
May 28, 2007, 09:10 PM
Thanks for comparing NFL, a game which is laid by passing and teamwork with a very individual game like Cricket...great going...:waiting:

in case you are unaware of cricket, it is still a team sport, every member still has to play within frame work of the team

rabeya
May 28, 2007, 10:35 PM
i agree that mortaza is a gud n ofcourse a consistent player but ashraful deserves to be a captain cuz mortaza is showing his actual skills in the bd vs. ind match not in the world cup so we cant judge
more over if ashraful is consistent he may shine our team

Nafis_BD
May 28, 2007, 10:51 PM
Overlooking Ash would be the biggest mistake BD would do ...he has the attitude and looked a natural capitan...remember Mash is a fast bowler prone to injuries, what BD needs is a captain who leads from the front ..ASH foe mr

Absolutely right Ash has the ability to be the captain ....he has everything the sttitude,game plan/strategy,good player/form and etc and he is probably one of the best if not the best person to be the captain of BD right now!!!

tanvir_nus
May 29, 2007, 01:13 AM
mortaza is definitely our most consistent performer, he has been injury prone but that's none of my concern, he is taken well care of now. he has been our strike bowler for long and will remain so till we find another rajib or a better one. but understand this, he is not captaincy material.

Mortaza has very good media handling skills, but at the same time he has very poor man management skills. I remember him yelling to Enamul and rafique for their misfielding, this reminded me of khaled mashud and his emotional approaches. i also remember him yelling to rasel for something very small. True that subcontinental coaches are emotional but even the ones that are put their emotions at bay when they are on field. the best ones are the ones that keep their cool. but guess what? he is already the vice captain, which i think is the best position of reward for him for all the consistency and he can guide the team from that position if he needs to.

on the other hand, ashraful has always dreamt of being the captain so i am sure he has the captaincy material ingrained in him for quite a long time. He has captained BCB XI, BCB A, Shonargaon. I am not saying his experience is overwhelming but if you look at the new Bangladeshi team with so many youngsters it is more than enough.

And btw, where were you when ashraful was captaining the two tests and giving those aggressive advices we need so much to Bashar right from the world cup?

ps: it also seems to me that ash and mash are best of mates on field, mash always points to ash when he gets a wicket suggesting something like hey this is for u or damn u were right, and ash always walks with mash to his run up reminding of days between imran and wasim akram. Damn i am excited for him being our next captain.

SideWinder
May 29, 2007, 05:46 AM
in case you are unaware of cricket, it is still a team sport, every member still has to play within frame work of the team

Yes, but primarily, in cricket it is more individual than NFL.
I'll give you a scenario;
Mgerski to Pitchel, Pitchel to Johnston, Johnston Back to Mgerski and Mgerski long balls it to Allen, Allen runs, is tackled, Michael takes over.
^ NFL. VERY 'FRAMEWORK'.

CRICKET:
Is this what you mean as framework?
Mortaza Bowling, oh just before he bowls he gives it to bashar, Bashar doing his weird run up and bowls it to Mortazas hands, just before point of release Rafique takes over and carries on.
That's framework...cricket doesn't work that way does it?;)

Btw, in the Field it is very framework.

SideWinder
May 29, 2007, 05:48 AM
The deleviry is 90 mph max for Imran, but he hovered at 85+ most of the time. That plus his newfound ability to swing was what was instramental. Then in the world there were either Medium Fasts or Mediums, Imran and co brought in the Fast only into the equation; and for that; it was more difficult to face, as 90 mph was very rare then. Youtube Imran. He has gotten so many hauls.....
I didn't mean all those batsman in one team:doh: .. those were different Batsman from different teams...Imran got them out easy.

Imran got spanked yes, but his average is wonderful.

http://www.lgiccrankings.com/test/bowling/all-time-ranking.php
greatest ever bowler in my eyes. It takes time into account

Non-existent bowling?
Maybe in 92 , but in 87 he murdered all those Indians and Englishmen...he wasn't tip top young then..

Better he scored 72 at SUCH and old age than go for zero like Mashrafe most probably will go for next innings...
I DON' T HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE IN AN ARGUMENT about Mashrafe possibly being better than Imran...prepostrous.

Btw, It's very hard for Mashrafe to be be a consistent 140+ kph (87 mph +) bowler thesedays. He's more suited to the 80-84 mph (128-134 kph) range

SideWinder
May 29, 2007, 05:50 AM
We are in no position to experiment. We have nothing. Talent but no control, pace without direction, spin without guile, slogging without thought, batting without contemplation, getting out with despair and chachas.

That's our team then. Make Mashrafe the captain? Of what???

Anon Kafka
May 29, 2007, 01:13 PM
Yes, but primarily, in cricket it is more individual than NFL.
I'll give you a scenario;
Mgerski to Pitchel, Pitchel to Johnston, Johnston Back to Mgerski and Mgerski long balls it to Allen, Allen runs, is tackled, Michael takes over.
^ NFL. VERY 'FRAMEWORK'.

CRICKET:
Is this what you mean as framework?
Mortaza Bowling, oh just before he bowls he gives it to bashar, Bashar doing his weird run up and bowls it to Mortazas hands, just before point of release Rafique takes over and carries on.
That's framework...cricket doesn't work that way does it?;)

Btw, in the Field it is very framework.

there u go .. like u just said .. in the field its very much like framework ..

and i think fielding and bowling is half the cricket match right?

SideWinder
May 29, 2007, 04:41 PM
there u go .. like u just said .. in the field its very much like framework ..

and i think fielding and bowling is half the cricket match right?

If cricket was framework then Pakistan would be the best team in the world and Australia the worst. I meant framework as in its subjective manner; a structure. Fielding is structure. But you have miscomprehensively understood the term framework with Mashrafe and revolving the players around him; no...that is called 'core'...