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Mahir
May 29, 2007, 02:19 PM
Obviously this thread comes in the light of a very crucial dropped catch in the slips in the recently concluded 2nd Test against India, and a few other dropped chances in the recent past. Yes, it was Sakib who dropped the catch inspite of his tremendous athletic abilities, but he is not a specialist in that position. Atleast he didnt look like one, yet.

Our ground fielding and throwing has definitely improved over time, and our overall fielding quality can be ranked 2nd to the Lankans in Asia. We are often taking some blinders in the squares (Aftab, Sakib, Rajin), have perfected the slide (JO, Ash, Tamim), and are showing brilliant hussle and commitment in chasing down leather down the ground. However, fielding at the slip cordon still remains an issue. Let's discuss on this with only our fielding abilities in mind, disregarding the field-placing factor :)

We've seen Bashar, Rafique, Manjar Rana, Mashrafee, Nafees, Sakib stand in the slips over the years. But none of them are specialists in that position. We're yet to develop a specialist slip fielder, and I am not sure if there are any such specialists in the U-19 / domestic league ranks. Please provide your thoughts about this, and some insights perhaps about our future in the fielding department.

Aritro
May 29, 2007, 02:28 PM
Aftab would make a great slip fieldsman. Excellent pair of hands as well as reflexes and hand-eye co-ordination.

His height'll be a problem though.

Rajin's another, but we don't want to waste our best ground fieldsmen either.

Tigers_eye
May 29, 2007, 02:39 PM
Slip fielding is not a specialized position. Anyone who can catch well can be there. However, that person has to be alert 100% time of his fielding. Just a minor lapse would undu all the countless hours of slip fielding practices that one may go through.

Captains usually puts himself and his most concentrated fielders in there. Speaking of our captain....

SS
May 29, 2007, 02:47 PM
Our fielders tend to like like 'taki mach' a lot.

WarWolf
May 29, 2007, 02:48 PM
Very good point. I think the problem of slip fielding and batting in consistency lies at the same place. It's not about fielding capabiltiy. It's about concentration. To be a good batsman, to need to keep concentrating on everyball. And same thing goes for slip fielding also. That's why you would see most good batsmen make fine slip fielders.

So we need to improve our concentration capability to be good slip fielders or good batsmen.

Mahir
May 29, 2007, 02:59 PM
A fielder's height will give him problem anywhere in the field, not just slip.

Can't agree with T_E here though... slip is infact a specialised position. Or else any good fielder of any team would be placed there, without feeling the necessity of someone 'special' to do the job. Like you have your preferred gully/point fielder, you also have your preferred slip fielder. Players like Graeme Hick, Mark Taylor are specially known for their expertise at the clip cordon.

Just look at it like a batting order of a team. There are special batsmen for special positions in the order. Or else, any good batsman would bat anywhere in the order.

mali007
May 29, 2007, 03:18 PM
Aftab is our best point fielder and Rajin in square leg, short forward leg positions.
I agree we are very weak in slip fielding and we need to improve that . Can we hire J. Rhodes as fielding coach?

Rubu
May 29, 2007, 03:23 PM
Lets call them 'sleep fielders'

Tigers_eye
May 29, 2007, 03:25 PM
Sobers was one of the best slip catchers ever to take the field. His height never was a problem. It is the concentration that we lack not the height. Most of the Australians are on the average taller than us. They don't have problem.

If you watched the game then you must have heard the commentators and then later on Mr. Cooley pointing out about the concentration level and its colleration with slip catching. Physically one can be in best condition. he can go through the highest number of hours of practicing slip catches yet in game time if he is not paying attention that fraction of a second would cause the person wobble or drop easiest of catches.

You and I both know Most of the MLB players are way taller than our cricket players and are also more flexible and faster than them. Reflex comes naturally with practice. But concentration is a must for the fielding unit. Nomar don't need any gloves.

Hatebreed
May 29, 2007, 03:29 PM
One of the problems is our slip fielders seem to stand too far away. Our pacers are not THAT fast and on many ocassions the edge doesn't carry.

mali007
May 29, 2007, 03:42 PM
You are right, our slip fielders stand too far near 3rd man !!!!! Commentators were upset about slip placement too. Dev. and Bashar both were ignorant about slip placement. I think Bashar was very much aware to save fours rather OUTING the batsman !!!!!

BonBon
May 29, 2007, 07:31 PM
Slip fielding is not a specialized position. ..

Very wrong. Very very wrong.

This is a very interesting thread. And Hatebreed is right. More than 5 times, I have seen the slip positioned too far..getting the ball just short..I have heard the commentators talk about it..in fact they surprisedwhy the slip would position that far. Same goes Mushfique's keeping distance..

BonBon
May 29, 2007, 07:32 PM
Our fielders tend to like like 'taki mach' a lot.

Is taki mach same as Goroi mach?:D

Sohel
May 29, 2007, 07:53 PM
aftab, alok, ash, shakzie, rajin and the iqbal bros are the best fielders in the country. specializing in slip is a just matter of practice for those. mash, maybe not the best at chasing down balls, catches very well also (let's not bring up the ponting drop from the aussie test).

SMHasan
May 29, 2007, 09:48 PM
I have seen few of our players put their hands on their knees at the time of the delivery.Hands should be in the air, not in the knees. In fact this does not give them a quick reflex and they act relatively slow. Saqib dropped one because he was slow to react. This is an area we need to work on. I think this is a basic mistake.

Nafis_BD
May 29, 2007, 10:26 PM
What I said on the get-together I will say it again all the big teams like Aus,SA,SRL and etc have players who are specialised to field their like for Aus: Ponting(barely ever misses a catch) for Ind: Sachin, Dravid(barely misses a catch) but Bangladesh doesn't have them and thats why we are struggling soo much in terms of slip fielding!!!Like the other bhaiya said (forgot his name) the only one I could think of is Manjurul Islam Rana(R.I.P)!!!

Trigger_Tiger
May 29, 2007, 10:37 PM
Far better than the current Pakistan or India teams slip fielding (Sachin took good catches in the first test but that's that!).

Still behind Sri Lanka by some bit of distance.

BD Tigers
May 29, 2007, 11:02 PM
a very good thread.

Slip fielders are also specialist. Mark Taylor, Mark Waugh, Freddi Flintoff are among the best in that area. In our team I dont see anybody but that doesnt mean we cant create one. I'd like suggest Shakib, Nafees, Tusher Imran, Razzak.

jawaherul
May 29, 2007, 11:09 PM
yeah , slip fielding over the years have been poor for bangladesh . we don't have any specialist there . need to grow some . however , I think aftab , rajin , sakib must not be placed in the slips . these 3 must be kept at point( aftab/sakib ) , midwicket( rajin ... while spinners are bowling ... straightish midwicket ) and cover/extracover( sakib ) . ash , being captain would constantly place himself in the mid off / mid on and i like this approach . javed and tamim ... I would prefer fielding in the deep ... they have very swift pair of legs ( yes , javed even with age ) and can dive very well ( along with aftab , ashraful , sakib , rajin ) . now who will be at slip ?

i think mashrafe can become a very good slip / gully fielder . ( hehehe , in the multan test , that we won ... oh no not us , ashoka and rashid and of course inzi won ... in that test mashrafe took some good catches at gully :D ) . mmm... who else ? I think tushar imran might be a good slip fielder . Shariar nafees should practise and concentrate a lot . and yes , our slip fielder very often are way too far placed for the ball to drop short of them specially in the subcontinents whre there is not enough bounce . i think musfiq should be aware of this and must place the slips perfectly .

hehehe , vai , apne slip fielding er kotha koilen ar ami pura fielding placement koira dilam shudhu slip khuija paitesi na :-p

jabbar
May 29, 2007, 11:16 PM
I have seen few of our players put their hands on their knees at the time of the delivery.Hands should be in the air, not in the knees. In fact this does not give them a quick reflex and they act relatively slow. Saqib dropped one because he was slow to react. This is an area we need to work on. I think this is a basic mistake.



Very good point. Preperation is the key, and many intl. players I see simply don't prepare. I once noticed in a slow no replay a while ago in a game between Oz and Pak, Wasim Akram was in slips and his hands were resting on his knees the whole time during the replay. On that occasion, the ball didn't fly in his direction, thankfully.

Wasim may be an experienced and skillful player, so *maybe* he knows what he's doing. But the BD players ought to follow a strict and flawless technique to ensure they snaffle slip catches. They cannot afford mistakes, especially in Test cricket.

cricket_pagol
May 29, 2007, 11:22 PM
I think slip fielding has been a weak area for bangladesh. Fielding coach Salauddin also acknowledged this before the start of this series. I have never bangladeshi fielder take good catches in the slip... it always seems that two many balls fall short of the slip fielders and tV commentators always complain about it.

Something has to be done in this area.

Mr-Cricket
May 29, 2007, 11:31 PM
Slip fielding is not a specialized position. Anyone who can catch well can be there. However, that person has to be alert 100% time of his fielding. Just a minor lapse would undu all the countless hours of slip fielding practices that one may go through.


Can't agree with T_E here though... slip is infact a specialised position. Or else any good fielder of any team would be placed there, without feeling the necessity of someone 'special' to do the job. Like you have your preferred gully/point fielder, you also have your preferred slip fielder. Players like Graeme Hick, Mark Taylor are specially known for their expertise at the clip cordon.

Yep. And Mark Waugh was another. A highly specialised position. Could even argue that it's a more specialised position than either Point or Gully. And yes, these positions are given to your best fielders (During the World Cup, Australia had Clarke at Gully/Point, Symonds at Cover & Ponting either in the Slips cordon, or at Mid-Off. Formidable, to say the least)! Can't understand why Mashrafee often finds himself placed in the corden when we are down to 1-2 slips. He is not a natural Slips Fielder. The Commentators have alluded to as much, in the past.

One of the problems is our slip fielders seem to stand too far away. Our pacers are not THAT fast and on many ocassions the edge doesn't carry.
I recall the Commentators blasting the players during the World Cup about this point specifically. I mean, it's common sense. My local Sub-District Cricket side can set a Slips cordon better than this lot!

Mr-Cricket
May 29, 2007, 11:33 PM
Oh, and great thread, Mahir!

Surfer
May 30, 2007, 12:50 AM
Good thred....great topic.

First of all, let me express disagreement with all those who assume that slip is not a spacialised position. May be the BD think tank also assumes the same:D I have been a slip fielder myself and I know what it takes to take the success rate upto 99.99% (no one can be perfect).

Slip poses various challenges that other positions dont. I have seen very good fielders who have dropped catches at slip. For India, Srinath, with fast legs and a very strong arm, was an excellent sweeper. But was a very bad slip fielder. On the contrary, Laxman had always been a bad fielder in all other positions. But did an excellent job at the slip.

The challenges at slip:
# (from what I recollect from a Jhonty Rhodes interview)- For all close-in positions includins slip, the fielder must expect the batsman to play a shot in his direction everytime. - it applies to slip as well. The fielder must pay full attention and expect an edge to fly in his direction each time.

# Be careful about the spin on the ball: An edge at times induces a heavy spin opn the ball that makes it very difficult to grip it. The ball tends to bounce out even from the softer part of the palms. Watch out for the spin and practice catching heavily spinning balls at a good pace.

#Be careful about the swing: This is rare but happerns. Sometimes the ball tends to swing on its way to the fielder. It tends to move away from the fielder creating a curve on his face. You must ensure that you cover the swing, time the dive right, dive the right distance and affect the right pull after the catch. Otherwise it will spill easily.

# Diving: Depends on how many fielders are there on each side and whats the distance between you and them. You have to judge whether a catch be suited better for the other slip fielder. On so many occassions we see two slip fielders diving for the same catch. For the first slip, its important to memeber that the wicket keeper can dive better, a longer way and has gloves.

#Style: The fielder gets a fraction of a second to take a catch. If the catch is coming at a awkward height, it becomes difficult to decide whether to take it in the australian style (fingers pointing upwards) or the traditional style (fingers pointing downwards). When the catch is at an awckward height, its advisable to adjust quickly to one of these two styles coz the style inbetween the Australian and the traditional styles will make the ball hit the hard part of the palms and in 5 out of 10 cases, the ball will pop out.

#Keep your hands free: Like SM Hasan pointed out earlier, dont rest the hands on knees. That does two things: one, it keeps your hands busy and two, you end up putting your weight on your knees....takes time to get up and dive.

#Stance: Make sure what stance suits you best. I have seen Sachin Tendulkar use different stances in different matches. Sometimes stands stretching his legs away from each other and some times upright. He probably does that depending on whether a side wise dive is more necessary or an upward jump will be more necessary (depending on whether the ball is swnging more or buoncing more and at what speed the bowler is bowling)

Sohel
May 30, 2007, 02:08 AM
awesome post Surferman... please apply ASAP for the position the temporary fielding coach BCB's trying to find for the upcoming lanka tour... i'm NOT being sarcastic bro.

cricket_pagol
May 30, 2007, 03:22 AM
Good review by Surfer... definitely learned a few things about slip fielding. I think Sakib has qualities needed to become a good slip fielder... he has good reflexes and solid temperament/concentration.

yaseer
May 30, 2007, 03:44 AM
Important issue raised by the writer here.

Tried to find some areas for poor slip fielding:

1. Slip fielders do not concentrate all time
2. They possition themselves far behind the wicket. Sometimes i question myself do they do it intentionally to keep themsleves safe? so that they can say the ball did not carry?
3. Because of Slow wickets in BD, not much catches travel to slips...to players do not have practice in domestic matches....and thats why BD is not able to produce specialist slip catchers.
4. Slip fielders dont expect catches to come their way...that hampers their concentration

Nocturnal
May 30, 2007, 03:49 AM
Good thread. Thanks Mahir.

Surfer
May 30, 2007, 04:29 AM
Good review by Surfer... definitely learned a few things about slip fielding. I think Sakib has qualities needed to become a good slip fielder... he has good reflexes and solid temperament/concentration.

awesome post Surferman... please apply ASAP for the position the temporary fielding coach BCB's trying to find for the upcoming lanka tour... i'm NOT being sarcastic bro.

Thanks for the appreciation and the encouragement:)

rah
May 30, 2007, 07:53 AM
aftab is a great feilder at point but ill like to rajin in slip

Mahir
May 30, 2007, 06:23 PM
Thanks for your acknowledgements and understanding the significance of the matter. :) Slip fielding is a critical part of Test cricket, and it is an area where a lot of improvement is necessary towards building a specialist or two.

Sakib can be (read: should be) trained for this position. To put it bluntly, this guy has by far the coolest mind in the team, and has the potential to master slip fielding. Mehrab jnr, Rajin, Ashraful, Enam could cover the sqaures, and Mashrafee has no business in standing at the slip cordon.

Any specialist slip fielder coming up from the U-19 / domestic ranks ?

BTW, a fine post by Surfer there :up:

Electrequiem
June 3, 2007, 10:29 PM
Hopefully Ash employs better fielding than Bashar.

Sohel
June 3, 2007, 11:52 PM
Hopefully Ash employs better fielding than Bashar.

no need to hope bro, it's impossible not to.

cricket_pagol
June 4, 2007, 12:03 AM
I don't blame bashar for our slip fielding deficiency... I would blame our coaching staff and domestic structure for not having more competitive 4 day games.

I think it will take some time for our slip fielding to improve, but all our players are very young it should not take too long.

Sohel
June 4, 2007, 12:48 AM
I don't blame bashar for our slip fielding deficiency... I would blame our coaching staff and domestic structure for not having more competitive 4 day games.

i'm trying my best not to bash the bash anymore... but i'd blame both. bashar's utter lack of athleticism as a fielder aptly aided by the all too familiar pack-a-day attitude, didn't help matters any. he never posted more than a single slip in most of his pathetic field settings anyway.

ammark
June 4, 2007, 01:12 AM
i'm trying my best not to bash the bash anymore... but i'd blame both. bashar's utter lack of athleticism as a fielder aptly aided by the all too familiar pack-a-day attitude, didn't help matters any. he never posted more than a single slip in most of his pathetic field settings anyway.

...or the slips were there, mash and rajib just found their rhythm, and he removed the slips that were standing too far back, to save runs at the boundary. Then there was the edge that went for 4 which third man failed to stop, and he brought back the slips only to find the batsmen had wisened up to the deliveries. Oh how this scenario repeated in the games we watched :(

Sohel
June 4, 2007, 01:28 AM
...or the slips were there, mash and rajib just found their rhythm, and he removed the slips that were standing too far back, to save runs at the boundary. Then there was the edge that went for 4 which third man failed to stop, and he brought back the slips only to find the batsmen had wisened up to the deliveries. Oh how this scenario repeated in the games we watched :(

perfectly put bro. i'm glad that we've just left those ugly times behind.

BANFAN
June 4, 2007, 07:21 AM
Obviously this thread comes in the light of a very crucial dropped catch in the slips in the recently concluded 2nd Test against India, ...........

In the recent times including worldcup, I don't question the ability of the fielders there rathar, their positions were always wrong, primarily too deep. Slips were positioned to sleep. It was a captaincy mistake.

I think because of his defensive attitude he did not think much on the slips, was positioning them somehow when the ball was new and was itching to remove them to cover over areas to go on the defense as soon as possible. He was more worried, to calculate when he can remove the slips rathar thinking about the pace, carry and movement of the ball, to place them in the right distance & loc

Bowlers, offcourse are also to share some of the blames for not thinking if the place is right for his bowling and suggest the captain.

Because of being too deep, even if the ball carried, it was always low and difficult catches. Mostly we have seen, ball not carrying to the slip fielders.

Ahmed_B
June 4, 2007, 09:35 AM
Mashrafee has probably been the biggest victim of poor slip feilding. Almost in every match he falls victim to dropped catches and many times it is dropped in the slips. His wicket counts actually would have been higher if he was playing with a better fielding side.

Tigers_eye
June 4, 2007, 09:42 AM
At the boundaries players have few seconds to adjust before the ball comes to them. At the slip that is not the case.

How many times I have to say it is the concentration /attention/ and keeping the head in to the game for 100% of the times is the key? Read Surfers post #24. It is screaming at you saying being alert is the key. That is the specialty of that position. One don't have to be a great catcher like Jhonty. But must pay attention or be mind full of the ball.

1. Attention.
2. No lapse in concentration.
3. Mindful.
4. Being Aware.
5. Noticing and anticipating (putting weight on the correct foot to move towards the ball) what is happening to the ball.

These are the key in slip fielding. It doesn't matter how many hours you have pracitced or how good you are in catching balls. I don't know how else to say this.

Mahir
June 4, 2007, 10:18 AM
At the boundaries players have few seconds to adjust before the ball comes to them. At the slip that is not the case.

How many times I have to say it is the concentration /attention/ and keeping the head in to the game for 100% of the times is the key? Read Surfers post #24. It is screaming at you saying being alert is the key. That is the specialty of that position. One don't have to be a great catcher like Jhonty. But must pay attention or be mind full of the ball.

1. Attention.
2. No lapse in concentration.
3. Mindful.
4. Being Aware.
5. Noticing and anticipating (putting weight on the correct foot to move towards the ball) what is happening to the ball.

These are the key in slip fielding. It doesn't matter how many hours you have pracitced or how good you are in catching balls. I don't know how else to say this.

And that is exactly why you have some specialist players to do the special job in your team. Not any good fielder can/will be placed in slips. And that's not how it happen anyways. Some fielders who usually cover the deep in the middle overs, are supposedly good at covering deep. Their ability to take catches (high catches especially), running, agility come into question then. In slips, you need to have quick reflexes and be attentive. One could go on to say that Sakib might master the slip fielding, while Tamim will be very good as a deep fielder. Anyway, enough with the theories on slip fielding. I think we all get the general essence of what's needed to be good in this position. Refer to Surfer's Post # 24, and a few tidbits that T_e gives here (except his claim that slip is not so specialised of a position :)).

How about comparing our current crop of players ? Who do you think could become regular "specialist(s)" to stand in the cordon ? Have you seen any such fielders in the U-19 / domestic ranks ?

And,

... why oh why does every thread has to turn into a Bashar-bashing one ? Not necessary anymore, guys. Let bygones be bygones. Given myself a warning in the first post :

Let's discuss on this with only our fielding abilities in mind, disregarding the field-placing factor.



:)So we could go on forever about some poor field settings in the recent past, since Sir Bashar had quite a few instances to show for. Cease the bashing, guys. Come to the point and look to the future.

Mahir
January 4, 2008, 07:14 PM
So is Junaed the answer ? That was a damn good catch to send Bell back. Also saw Tamim there for some time, although Mashrafee, as i reckon, is the usual preference of our captains to stand in slip in Tests, especially when a spinner is on.

P.S. Sorry for the dig out...

One World
January 4, 2008, 07:21 PM
It was an awesome job in the slip. Some improvement in the air.

scoilaheez
January 4, 2008, 08:45 PM
Finally, we got a good slips catch, i think Siddons should train up ashraful as a slip catcher, similar to what SRL did with Jayawardene.

AsifTheManRahman
January 4, 2008, 10:16 PM
What do people have to say about Mushy's keeping? Tsk tsk... ;)

tiger_army
January 5, 2008, 01:55 AM
Junayed took an excellent low diving catch today.....good concentration by this guy...we need more slip fielders like him

tiger_omar
January 5, 2008, 04:30 AM
That was a special slip catch, specially for a tall man like him.

A bit out of topic, Mushfiq's wicket keeping performance was really good today as well, and its great to see him start to silence his critics who never believed in his keeping abilities. Hope he can continue the good work.

tiger_army
January 5, 2008, 08:45 AM
A bit out of topic, Mushfiq's wicket keeping performance was really good today as well, and its great to see him start to silence his critics who never believed in his keeping abilities. Hope he can continue the good work.

yea this kid got some ribs, his last catch was the best one, so other ones.....

zainab
January 6, 2008, 07:07 PM
Mushy will improve with playing more matches. He has really improved since the World Cup. Boucher, Gilchrist and Sangakkara did not become good keepers overnight, it took them years,. Mushy is a dedicated cricketer. give him time and i am sure Bd will stick with him. IMO, there should be two specialist batsmen/keepers in a national team, alternationg for tests and ODIs.

Foozy
January 6, 2008, 11:27 PM
Siddons seemed to be giving slip fielding drills before the NZ tour. Now I dont know if he had anyone particular in mind or it was just a random drill.

zahid
January 7, 2008, 05:27 AM
Our bowlers can't swing the ball and you are talking about slip-fielding.