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truetruetiger
June 1, 2007, 08:14 PM
Wow is he reaaly that bad at wicket keeping? I thought he had a good world cup and kept the team goin with "bowliiiing aaah yees moina ooooh lala". lol. we all know that his batting is way better than that of pilot's, but can he be considered as a specialist batsemen? it is a well known fact that a team must field their best wicket keeper in test matches, and pilot is certainly the best keeper in bd. soo, is there any chance the selectors wil take a gamble and choose mushfiq's batting capabilities as a factor for dropping pilot. also, what are the chances of another keeper other than pilor and mushfiq playing? i hav heard names such as saghir hossain but i dont really know much about them. can anyone please suggest any other quality wicket keepers bd have, and what are the chances of them replacing pilot, or would mushfoq be wicket keeping against sri lanka?

Zobair
June 1, 2007, 08:25 PM
Well! on the strength of Pilot's showing in the recent test series, Rahim can hardly be much worse at keeping. If I was one of the selectors I would go with Rahim and ask Pilot to go back to the domestic arena, and prove himself, or retire.

Farhad
June 1, 2007, 08:52 PM
Well, if the recent series against India is any indication, Mushfiq seems to better than Pilot in keeping nowadays as well...I have a feeling that Pilots end is coming soon, that is, assuming it hasnt already come.

kaisermatin
June 1, 2007, 10:36 PM
rahim should come and play in tests. he has good body language.

layperson
June 1, 2007, 11:38 PM
I was always for Rahim to be playing test matches after the WC cup rather than bringing back Pilot. Pilot is a "has been" for us and would only hold the team back if he is included again for the next series.

tiger_omar
June 1, 2007, 11:48 PM
Musfiq is a pretty good player under pressure and I think he can make a real positive contribution in tests with his bat but also his gloves. It's correct that his technique isn't great, but I'm sure he's been working on that.

He has a very good batting technique specially against spinners and I think he would be a good adition to the test team as a wicketkeeper for now and hopefully for a long time to come.

Sohel
June 1, 2007, 11:50 PM
pilot's the better keeper, mushy's the better batsman in a batting-challanged team. pilot's the past and mushy's the future. mushy... easy choice.

Protic
June 2, 2007, 04:40 AM
Sohel : bro.. i woudnt agree.. PILOT was a better keeper.. but his recent India tour didnt helped much in that case.. Mushfiqur is a better test player than ODI..i mean common in LORD's test he was picked as a genuine batsman! and he was praised.. He handled english bowlers in england when he was 16!! how come he gets ignored when he is more matured..and against Indian medicore attack..Anyway Im reliefed now the selectors now Pilot isnt good enough..anymore. Mushfiqur should be given chances..and should start from SL tour.

truetruetiger
June 2, 2007, 05:04 AM
yeh but what about other keepers such as saghir hossain and others, who else can handle the gloves? can anyine shed some light on this please

Sohel
June 2, 2007, 05:09 AM
Sohel : bro.. i woudnt agree.. PILOT was a better keeper.. but his recent India tour didnt helped much in that case.. Mushfiqur is a better test player than ODI..i mean common in LORD's test he was picked as a genuine batsman! and he was praised.. He handled english bowlers in england when he was 16!! how come he gets ignored when he is more matured..and against Indian medicore attack..Anyway Im reliefed now the selectors now Pilot isnt good enough..anymore. Mushfiqur should be given chances..and should start from SL tour.

i'm relieved myself bro... i think mushy will learn to keep better faster than anyone anticipates. the boy's ALL cricket.

Sohel
June 2, 2007, 05:12 AM
yeh but what about other keepers such as saghir hossain and others, who else can handle the gloves? can anyine shed some light on this please

dhiman's keeping is better than saghir's. so's his batting, but not as technically sound as mushy's. besides, mushy has too many other important qualities bangladesh could use more.

Protic
June 2, 2007, 05:20 AM
Dhimans batting is aweful.. ive seen him bat. And he is very .. mmm weak.. looks weak.
Saghir.. donno much about him.. but Mushy is the best we have now.

Miraz
June 2, 2007, 05:41 AM
dhiman's keeping is better than saghir's. so's his batting, but not as technically sound as mushy's. besides, mushy has too many other important qualities bangladesh could use more.

Have to disagree here,

Saghir is a better keeper and obviously better batsman.

I don't know the rationale of your statement, whether you've seen them on field or anything else. But record will not speak for your observation.

sar2005
June 2, 2007, 05:45 AM
Mushy has definitely a very good crecketing brain which he already proved at under 19 level. But I guess he should work hard on his batting, specially I want to see some very long good innings from him. He should work on getting centuries in domestic games.

Pilot is off as far as performance is concern, Mushy is on and Sagir is definitely on Mushy's neck.

Aritro
June 2, 2007, 06:10 AM
i'm relieved myself bro... i think mushy will learn to keep better faster than anyone anticipates. the boy's ALL cricket.

Absolutely no doubt about that in my mind.

And for all the mistakes he makes, and there are certainly are a few, he's also managed to pull off several top class stumpings in his brief career. Clearly he has the basic material to be a fine wicketkeeper.

cricketlvr
June 2, 2007, 09:28 AM
well mushfiq was chosen over pilot for world cup...so i think selectors may choose him again for the upcoming series...and i believe they should! he is a decent wicket keeper, a good batsman...not to mention a very good "cheerleader" who is fun to watch/listen to and provides inspiration to the bowlers.

jinglenuts
June 2, 2007, 10:28 AM
i think mush is better in both wicketkeeping n batting. he should b in d tests frm now.

Sohel
June 2, 2007, 12:43 PM
Dhimans batting is aweful.. ive seen him bat. And he is very .. mmm weak.. looks weak.
Saghir.. donno much about him.. but Mushy is the best we have now.

Have to disagree here,

Saghir is a better keeper and obviously better batsman.

I don't know the rationale of your statement, whether you've seen them on field or anything else. But record will not speak for your observation.

mushy's my first choice keeper, just want to be clear on that.

my high opinion of dhiman's based on personal observations from: 1) what i've seen of him during the last nationals; 2) from what i've read in the papers; and 3) cricinfo stats. i don't care much about how weak or unglamorous he looks.

as a keeper, he converts dismissal opportunities to dismissals well. his keen sense of positioning and the ability to recover quickly from unsound positions, similar to a good ice-hockey goalie like patrick roy if that makes any sense to anybody else here, makes his a pretty safe pair of hands behind the stumps.

as a batsman, he's sensible and has the ability to change his game. he bats more comfortably lower down the order and converts 50s to 100s well. he's also a good fielder and a decent enough bowler. he's an important, automatic choice for chittagong.

my rationale: stats from the nationals, look at the runs and the dismissals. unfortunately, dismissal opprtunities are not a catagory yet, but perhaps should be. anyway, judge for yourselves: -

dhiman's 4-day matches at the nationals: -

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267233.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267236.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/269232.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267239.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267242.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/280721.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/280725.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/280728.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/280986.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/280988.html

dhiman's limited over matches at the nationals: -

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267249.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267252.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267254.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267256.html
http://ind.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2006-07/BDESH_LOCAL/NCLOD/SCORECARDS/BARISAL_CHTGNG_NCLOD_04APR2007

dhiman's career stats: http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/56208.html

saghir's a good keeper too, but better positioning gives dhiman the edge in my book. i'm not impressed by his batting. his conversion ratio from 50s to 100s does not impress me either. slogs little too often for my taste.

saghir's 4-day matches at the nationals: -

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267232.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267235.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/269231.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267242.html

saghir was replaced by salim from this point on, and didn't play any limited over matches from what i know.

saghir's career stats: http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/56158.html

for the record, and looking at the recent FC stats, i don't think saghir's better.

Aritro
June 3, 2007, 06:19 AM
mushy's my first choice keeper, just want to be clear on that.

my high opinion of dhiman's based on personal observations from: 1) what i've seen of him during the last nationals; 2) from what i've read in the papers; and 3) cricinfo stats. i don't care much about how weak or unglamorous he looks.

as a keeper, he converts dismissal opportunities to dismissals well. his keen sense of positioning and the ability to recover quickly from unsound positions, similar to a good ice-hockey goalie like patrick roy if that makes any sense to anybody else here, makes his a pretty safe pair of hands behind the stumps.

as a batsman, he's sensible and has the ability to change his game. he bats more comfortably lower down the order and converts 50s to 100s well. he's also a good fielder and a decent enough bowler. he's an important, automatic choice for chittagong.

my rationale: stats from the nationals, look at the runs and the dismissals. unfortunately, dismissal opprtunities are not a catagory yet, but perhaps should be. anyway, judge for yourselves: -

dhiman's 4-day matches at the nationals: -

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267233.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267236.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/269232.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267239.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267242.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/280721.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/280725.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/280728.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/280986.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/280988.html

dhiman's limited over matches at the nationals: -

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267249.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267252.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267254.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267256.html
http://ind.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2006-07/BDESH_LOCAL/NCLOD/SCORECARDS/BARISAL_CHTGNG_NCLOD_04APR2007

dhiman's career stats: http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/56208.html

saghir's a good keeper too, but better positioning gives dhiman the edge in my book. i'm not impressed by his batting. his conversion ratio from 50s to 100s does not impress me either. slogs little too often for my taste.

saghir's 4-day matches at the nationals: -

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267232.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267235.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/269231.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bangladesh/engine/match/267242.html

saghir was replaced by salim from this point on, and didn't play any limited over matches from what i know.

saghir's career stats: http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/56158.html

for the record, and looking at the recent FC stats, i don't think saghir's better.

Bloody hell, you really do know Bangladeshi cricket inside out don't you?

Great post.

truetruetiger
June 3, 2007, 08:20 AM
haha lol i second that

Miraz
June 3, 2007, 08:34 AM
Sohel NR, you have digged up some scorecards of Dhiman and Saghir but ignored (probably you missed those matches) some batting of Saghir which places him well ahead of Dhiman, and those are very recent matches.

Here's Saghir's match saving 70 against England A in February 2007 (http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/114/114645.html)
Here's Saghir's 86 against England A in Feb 2007 (http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/114/114643.html)

Career stat between Saghir and Dhiman does not make much difference, apart from domestic first class matches, Saghir always proved a better option in Bangladesh A team matches.

And 2 centuries never judge a players ability to convert 50's into 100's, way to go. I think Saghir's one century and 9 half-centuries compared to Dhiman's 2 centuries and 5 half centuries prompted you to the conclusion. It's way too early to comment bro.

SideWinder
June 3, 2007, 08:55 AM
I was always for Rahim to be playing test matches after the WC cup rather than bringing back Pilot. Pilot is a "has been" for us and would only hold the team back if he is included again for the next series.

A Hasbeen who made it possible for Bangladesh to even play test cricket? :-/

truetruetiger
June 3, 2007, 09:05 AM
A Hasbeen who made it possible for Bangladesh to even play test cricket? :-/

yeh its true that pilot has been great for us over the years and is one factors of why we are actually playing test cricket. But this is international crikcet at the highest standard for you, you have to make bold decisions and axe your big players at one stage of their career and pilot's time has now come. thank you and goodbye

rah
June 3, 2007, 09:47 AM
seein mashuds keeping this test series,no one can realli say dat pilot is a better keeper than mushy

Sohel
June 3, 2007, 09:27 PM
Sohel NR, you have digged up some scorecards of Dhiman and Saghir but ignored (probably you missed those matches) some batting of Saghir which places him well ahead of Dhiman, and those are very recent matches.

Here's Saghir's match saving 70 against England A in February 2007 (http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/114/114645.html)
Here's Saghir's 86 against England A in Feb 2007 (http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/114/114643.html)

Career stat between Saghir and Dhiman does not make much difference, apart from domestic first class matches, Saghir always proved a better option in Bangladesh A team matches.

And 2 centuries never judge a players ability to convert 50's into 100's, way to go. I think Saghir's one century and 9 half-centuries compared to Dhiman's 2 centuries and 5 half centuries prompted you to the conclusion. It's way too early to comment bro.

thanks for the stats Miraz bhai. good performances with the bat. i have always been more interested in the keeping skills possessed by a keeper, as his core competency... that's just me and that's what a lot of the focus has been about in my posts here. obviously batting's important also. i mean let's not kid ourselves, we won't have mushy where he is in our thoughts today without that bat. i for one am really glad that he's there.

the presumptive tone as to my narcissistic intent to put up an argument with available stats just for the sake it, if that's what it was, is a bit uncalled for. on the other hand, if it is coming from nothing other than good faith extrapolations, i apologize in advance for my own presumptions. we obviously have a difference of opinion here and i don't have a problem with that. neither do you, i'm sure.

i did attend quite a few of the national league matches in and around dhaka, and my opinion of the two is based on what i've seen of them. what i've seen obviously influence the way i look at the available stats. frankly, i think dhiman continues to get the shaft beyond a certain level simply because saghir's a bit flashier, and not because of any performance standards at the domestic first class level. those standards and measures do not exist as tangible elements of BCB's selection policy to my knowledge. come to think of it, i don't think there is a somewhat objective selection policy based on predetermined criteria and measures that define and assess talent, and thoroughly analyze individual performances on the field beyond the half-baked.

your last two paragraphs, especially the bit about it being too early to comment. i agree bro. it may also be too early to comment on dhiman's batting for BD-A. but then again, we have to work with what we have at hand. comparative stats are always a good place to start, keeping in mind that they are no more than the oversimplified abstractions from a series of significanlty more complex and heterogeneous processes, abstractions that can serve as the better strategic toolkit we can use to make more reasonable choices by the end of the day. the net worth of the early analysis, both in your case and mine, has value only when duly contextualized in terms of all the perceived realities connected to the process.

dhiman's conversion ratio, according to the stats at hand, is better at this point in time, just as saghir's batting performance for BD-A maybe better in comparison. i mean what else is there at this juncture?

(BTW- i say maybe because i don't know as i haven't seen dhiman's BD-A batting stats. but you'll get the benefit of my doubt any day of the week, month, year or decade for that matter. based on what i've seen so far, like some of dhiman and saghir's performances behind the stumps as well as with the bat, cricinfo and even wisden is missing-out on your erudition. i'm not just saying that because i'm a Miraz fan, but because that's what i think despite my intellectual limitations.)

Sohel
June 3, 2007, 09:33 PM
Bloody hell, you really do know Bangladeshi cricket inside out don't you?

Great post.

thanks for the warm words bro. i don't know bangladeshi cricket inside out at all... i just tend to think about what i see and read, and explore those thoughts the best i can, just like you... and like you and countless others, i love my cricket, now more than ever because we, for once, are not just mere spectators at the world stage, but feisty young cubs trying to grow into the predators we can be.

Murad
June 4, 2007, 12:06 AM
i dont wanna see mushfique in ODI.. i wanna see sagir there.. sagir is better batsman than him... and think keeping wise hes good too..

Mushfique would be better for Test.. hes too slow batsman for one day.. he seems like another pilot with a bit better batting techniques

mac
June 4, 2007, 12:27 AM
After seeing Pilot's recent perfomence....i would definitely like to go with Mushy....and thats from the SL series.

cricman
June 4, 2007, 12:32 AM
i dont wanna see mushfique in ODI.. i wanna see sagir there.. sagir is better batsman than him... and think keeping wise hes good too..

Mushfique would be better for Test.. hes too slow batsman for one day.. he seems like another pilot with a bit better batting techniques

You seem to forget 2005 Khaled Mashud Averaged 40+ for the entire Calender Year and in one 10 match stretch averaged 70!

And if Pilot < Rahim in terms of Batting, then I don't need another lemme hit a 4 on every ball batsmen. We Have Ash, Aftab, Mashrafe who all can put it on to 5th gear it's nice to see and have some balance in a batting line up.

And Rahim is a fantastic keeper the way he encourages our bowlers can't be matched.

Sohel
June 4, 2007, 12:32 AM
i dont wanna see mushfique in ODI.. i wanna see sagir there.. sagir is better batsman than him... and think keeping wise hes good too..

Mushfique would be better for Test.. hes too slow batsman for one day.. he seems like another pilot with a bit better batting techniques

why do you think saghir's a better ODI batsman than musy? and what makes him the better keeper?

Sohel
June 4, 2007, 12:35 AM
seein mashuds keeping this test series,no one can realli say dat pilot is a better keeper than mushy

anything specific in mind? i can understand if he just rubs you the wrong way... or someone else rubs you the right way.

Sohel
June 4, 2007, 12:37 AM
... And Rahim is a fantastic keeper the way he encourages our bowlers can't be matched.

that's the ticket. mushy's. the batting helps too.

Sohel
June 4, 2007, 12:41 AM
Absolutely no doubt about that in my mind.

And for all the mistakes he makes, and there are certainly are a few, he's also managed to pull off several top class stumpings in his brief career. Clearly he has the basic material to be a fine wicketkeeper.

the superior hand-eye coordination, the low center of gravity, and natural, graceful balance will come in handy once he learns to play the angles better with his whole body.

cricketboy
June 4, 2007, 01:12 AM
I would have preferred Masud to be around for test matches but he look in bad form both with the bat and gloves. So, Rahim should be selected for both tests and ODI.

sandpiper
July 5, 2007, 01:31 PM
Everyone is busy applausing captain's knock and the probable change(s) of the third test squad overshadowing the gritty performance of that little genius in our middle order. Yes, I thought it was the best attainment of the day for Bangladesh.

The contribution of Rahim was even more exciting for Bangladesh cricket. Despite being just 18 years-old, he appeared the calm old hand in the middle, keeping Ashraful in check and guiding to him his century. It was a travesty that he himself did not notch up a maiden century because he certainly deserved one, handling all the bowlers, even Muttiah Muralitharan and his doosra, with aplomb. One thing is for sure though: a maiden Test hundred is not long off. He clearly showed that he now needs to bat higher up the order.

courtesy: Charlie Austin (cricinfo)

Rifat
July 5, 2007, 01:34 PM
i love rahim he's my buoy the bangladeshi gangsta

WarWolf
July 5, 2007, 01:41 PM
He has shown that he has a long way to go.

rafiq
July 5, 2007, 02:28 PM
why is this thread consumed with dhiman vs saghir? both of them have about as much chance of playing as I do....anyway, don't we have our hands full with pilot vs rahim?

Rumz_01
July 5, 2007, 02:33 PM
i think rahim shud play in tests...jus bcuz his perforamces have never been as bad as 8 off 80..n his wicket keeping is improving...
but pilot i luv ya really...!

brishti
July 5, 2007, 05:42 PM
well mushfiq was chosen over pilot for world cup...so i think selectors may choose him again for the upcoming series...and i believe they should! he is a decent wicket keeper, a good batsman...not to mention a very good "cheerleader" who is fun to watch/listen to and provides inspiration to the bowlers.

True, true, true 100% True:D

brishti
July 5, 2007, 05:50 PM
Nobody can have team spirit like musfiq
besides he has a good temper too



:heart:Mushfiq:flag:

Sillypoint
July 5, 2007, 06:01 PM
Mushi is now needed in the team - Pilot or no Pilot.
After Pilot officially retires we can find another wk if needed.

Rabz
July 5, 2007, 07:08 PM
Mushfiq's innings brought the demise of Pilot's international career for sure.
I fail to see how he (Pilot) will ever get a chance again, unless there is a slump in Mushy's form.

mali007
July 5, 2007, 07:33 PM
Cricinfo reports reflects our feelings about Mushfi. He is an asset for BD cricket-----our LITTLE MASTER. According to cricinfo analyst if I suggest to bat him in upper order, some of you will scream that HE IS NOT READY !!!!!

MohammedC
July 5, 2007, 08:01 PM
An wonderful innings. Magnificent Mushfiq with elegant style when he bats.

Foozy
July 5, 2007, 08:28 PM
well mushfiq was chosen over pilot for world cup...so i think selectors may choose him again for the upcoming series...and i believe they should! he is a decent wicket keeper, a good batsman...not to mention a very good "cheerleader" who is fun to watch/listen to and provides inspiration to the bowlers.

absolutely rite!!... and his "cheerleading" as u call it... it makes sense... pilots is just random words :S.... he cant really get the batsmen annoyed or even beef things up... rahim can!!..
and mushfiq DEFINATELY is one of the BEST batsmen that bd has... and his keeping is very good too.. i personaly think its better than wat pilot is now... so y waste another spot??... bring in more batsmen as thats our prob!!! we dont score enough!!

Timtim
July 5, 2007, 08:49 PM
Right now, Pilot is better at keeping, but mushi is good too.

But, Mushi is way better with the bad, but Pilot just sucks

So it should be an easy choice

Nafis_BD
July 5, 2007, 11:09 PM
I think Mushfiq can improve with his keeping if he stays with the BD team but Masud's time is just over!!

scoilaheez
July 6, 2007, 01:08 AM
Mushi's natural game will be more suited to Tests as he is not a slogger but more composed in his innings and shows the right temperament and patience. Sakib will also become a fantastic test match player in the future.

Sohel
July 8, 2007, 04:04 AM
This is just the beginning from Mushy ... just wait, watch and be amazed by this particular pichchi.

WarWolf
July 8, 2007, 04:27 AM
This is just the beginning from Mushy ... just wait, watch and be amazed by this particular pichchi.
I am happy with his fearless attitude in the ground. We have only one more player with this attitude in this series, Rajib.

jahidus200
July 8, 2007, 04:39 AM
he have good body language thats help our team lot and bring lots of confidence for our team