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View Full Version : Problematic mindset of Test selection


Beamer
June 4, 2007, 05:19 PM
The test squad to SL has just been announced, and suffice to say, it is once again a side that is filled with players with 'negative' mindset. Same miserable older players are persisted with for the sake of 'experience', even though their recent showing suggests that they are unable to dominate during any phase of batting. I won't blame those players chosen here as many words have written about them over the months/years. They are what they are, and won't ,or can't change their style or mindset . It is the selectors however who continue to choose this path of picking players that they think are suitable for tests. One might ask, what is the criteria for choosing a test player? The criteria to choose any player should be his ability to score runs. Its obviously preferable to have players with right technique and temparament who can accumulate runs session by session. The key word is accumulating 'runs'. Any player that has a midset of just 'surviving' or 'occupying' the crease will inevitably fail. Opposing capatins will quickly pounce on such players by sorrounding them with attacking field. It is impossible to score runs if you are not willing to take it to the opposition. Takin in to them doesn't mean slogging, but, playing cricket shots with aggression. In our case, the test selectors seem to have a preference for players that think scoring runs are secondary and duely, they are prefered over players that can dictate the bowlers. So, what is the end result? We still score an average of 240-250 runs per innings, usually in less than a days work, with those players that seem to fill the selectors criteria. At this time in our cricketing juncture, we can safely say that none of our players have the necessary temperament developed that can play mutiple sessions. So, what gives? Do we still want players that give you a max output of 240-250 runs per innings, or we want players that are looking to score or at least can set the field back thus releasing the pressure for other players to follow? If you ask me, I will go for the later, given the availabilty of players from the pool. Hopefully, with enough chances they will learn to convert the 30-40's to 70-80' s and on to 100's.

I think our present selectors have evovlved accordingly for the one day format of current game. They clearly have an understanding for the one day game and has been putting particular players in position, barring one or two mishaps here and there, which has been yielding positive results for the one day team. For example : They have succesfully identified that the top three must take advantage of initial power plays. So, Tamim was brought in, Aftab coming up the order, Bashar sliding down the order ( though cynics will say he is not fit to play anywhere in one day team with good arguements ), Good young busy players like Sakib & Rahim coming to the forefront, trying to identify the need for an all rounder batting at no.6/7 ( Reza was tried, now Riad coming up ) etc. Overall, for the one day game, this set of selectors has easily been the best we have ever had. They have kept pace with the need for one day game. Same accolades can't be showered upon them for the selection of test teams unfortunately. It could be that they never played tests, or first class games, to see the game from that vantage point. But, they never really played top tier one day games either, and the strategies involved from during their era has vastly changed. But, luckily, they have made the adjustment. Why cant they do so for the test team? Gone are the days of 200 runs a day when our selectors listened to the games in their radios. Now, 350 runs or close to 4 runs an over are the norm. Sure, we don't have players that can consistently play that type of game over days. But, we sure have players that can at least put up 300-320 per innings just by being a bit aggressive in nature. That type of score will not win you too many matches, but 240-250 score will not win you any matches. That is the dillema we are facing right now. Our test selectors are stuck in the 80's with their mindset. When it comes to picking test players, they will always prefer players that are perceived to have temperament over players that they think are too aggressive for test matches. Look at even our best test batsman ever, Bashar, who scored freely in many a matches just becasue of his positive intent. I am not arguing that we must fill our line up with all attack minded players. Surely, there is a need for a Rajin type player in the order, but to have the line up dominated by negative players is a receipe for disaster. JO, Bashar ( present day ), Rajin, Mehrab ( if he gets his debut - best case example of that mindset- survive first, score later ), Pilot - dominate our lineup, in between, sandwitched are Ashraful and an unkown test quantity Sakib ( X factor really ). I am not sure if I elaborated my views correctly here, but I feel, players like Aftab should not be ignored completely from the test scene. He brings character to the batting line up , so does an in form Tushar Imran, who was inexplicably ommitted form the test team, and the continued ignorance of another attacking talented player in Kapali compounds that notion. If you can tell me that the exclusion of those three will mean the addition of another hundred runs to the team total, I will gladly step back and accept it. But, that is not the case here. Selectors preference of 'test' players has been giving us 250 runs max in a innings while giving the illusion that they are really good players in tests with right technique, temperament, chutzpah etc..Reality says otherwise. I am yet to see anyone of them scoring a big hundred by surviving a whole day ( only exception being Nafis Iqbal who played the innings of BD test history ). But, players who has taken it to the opposition, or at least willing to do so, have scored majority of the big scores in our history. Bashar, Ash, SN, Rafiq and even an aggressive Pilot in WI!

So, change the mindset selectors. Have players in the team that will fight back with runs, and in the process if we are all out 150 , so be it, for that match. But do know that only those players who has 'it' in them will also give you 400+ scores. Its a matter of what I believe is the correct attitude to play modern test matches. Attitude changed our one day fortunes. It should apply for tests as well.

bangla786
June 4, 2007, 05:21 PM
1. Mohammad Ashraful (Captain)
2. Mashrafe Bin Mortaza (Vice Captain)
3. Habibul Bashar
4. Javed Omer
5. Mehrab Hossain (Jr.)
6. Shahriar Nafees Ahmed
7. Rajin Saleh
8. Shakib Al Hasan
9. Khaled Mashud
10. Shahadat Hossain Rajib
11. Syed Rasel
12. Mohammed Rafique
13. Abdur Razzak
14. Mohammad Sharif
15. Mushfiqur Rahim


--> so just like the selectors, you guyz think tamim is no better than these nine batsman that were selected for the test squad???? if so then i swear
u guyz are buncha old mentality peoples who only thinks for respectable loose or draw!
b4 tamimz inclusion into the odi team , i remember u guyz were whining about him being so young and all that but wht happend den? he proved his place and now u guyz are saying hes too young and nt experience! wt the hell happended to ashz case when he only played two domestic cricket match and seleted as a test player and become the youngest player to make debut century!

leaving him out of the test match will jus waste his time of the career which all of us will realise when he become 35+, " oh y didnt we promote him earlier''


and we have to remember we have nothing to loose (huh even saving innings defeat would be a miracle with players like golla, haba, piloto in the team) other than trying our young players so we can have better future with them in upcoming series rather than playing with jo and the future output is nothing:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

layperson
June 4, 2007, 05:26 PM
bangla786 is tamim iqbal's pseudo name in BC. :D

Seriously speaking I did not like the selection that much. I wanted both Tamim and Aftab to be in the team.

bangla786
June 4, 2007, 05:28 PM
thank u very much!!!! now if only somebody shot a bulet with this message to the selectors head! we as a fan would have been much more happier!

y dnt they understand that its not that we are playing for optimistic victory, The only think piss me off is even knowing we dnt have anything to looses but still we select players like golla, pilot in our squad where the present and most important the future output is nothing, instead of choosing promising players like tamim, alok kapali, aftab, tushar by which they can learn from here and bring us good future!


alll hail to our moron selectors,! i hope somebody shot dem!

Carte Blanche
June 4, 2007, 05:29 PM
--> so just like the selectors, you guyz think tamim is no better than these nine batsman that were selected for the test squad???? if so then i swear
u guyz are buncha old mentality peoples who only thinks for respectable loose or draw!


Not that you need any, that tone of yours will win you little credibility or friends here. Please calm it down a little. Like you, many of us are disappointed in the selection of this team and share the frustration; especially the selectors' persistence with the same bundle of players who have failed in the recent times despite being aware of an axe over their necks. Since Beamer's thread already addresses this issue, I'm merging this.

mod.content

WarWolf
June 4, 2007, 05:32 PM
I think Tamim and other young talented players got enough time left in their career. In test, we should follow a bit defensive way like now.

tonoy
June 4, 2007, 05:35 PM
oh god I hate reading long coulumns. especially in a forum. I mean come on...

bangla786
June 4, 2007, 05:35 PM
I think Tamim and other young talented players got enough time left in their career. In test, we should follow a bit defensive way like now.
so now ur telling me dis became a sharing concept, like for an example golla is having his time and afterwards tamim will have his????
if thats ur motive then a win is far from reachable my dear friend! the concept should be whoever has better skills will play , regardless of the age and apart from Ash, tamim certainly is our most skilled batsmen!

Spitfire_x86
June 4, 2007, 06:04 PM
I think Tamim and other young talented players got enough time left in their career. In test, we should follow a bit defensive way like now.
Play defensive to achieve what? If a team is playing for "draw" before a single delivery is bowled, then I'm afraid that team doesn't deserve to play at all.

Rubu
June 4, 2007, 08:01 PM
People who wants Tamim in test squad lacks some basic knowledge about test cricket. That kid can't keep his head cool for 20 overs, how is he supposed to bat for 2 and half days? Bang bang boom boom is not test cricket and until he learns how to control that rush of blood of his, we are better off keeping him in ODI squad.

In test you would have to keep your patience when good ball is bowled and have to keep in mind that if you do not lose 20 wickets you do not lose the test. Also, you would have to punish the bad ball. But, a player like tamim tries to score 10 runs a over. If that was possible, we would have 900 runs at the end of the day. That never happens and there is a reason. That is why Tamim is unfit for the test team, still.

Russell2k7
June 4, 2007, 08:03 PM
I think Tamim can play defensively as well. He is getting better. He isnt always looking to jump down the track as he used to in World Cup. I think I saw a tad bit different Tamim in 1st ODI against IND not much to say about the 2nd ODI.

Electrequiem
June 4, 2007, 08:11 PM
...I am apalled at this selection. Where is Tamim and Aftab?!!

Anyone know of a way we can ship some cerebral matter to the BCB office?

Electrequiem
June 4, 2007, 08:12 PM
I think Tamim can play defensively as well. He is getting better. He isnt always looking to jump down the track as he used to in World Cup. I think I saw a tad bit different Tamim in 1st ODI against IND not much to say about the 2nd ODI.

Ditto.

oracle
June 4, 2007, 09:13 PM
Surely, there is a need for a Rajin type player in the order, but to have the line up dominated by negative players is a receipe for disaster

I do not completely agree that Rajin is a negative player in the mould of JO. His debut was in the middle of a turbulent period in BD tests when the openeing pair and middle order was in disarray ( even to this day but in a milder form). So, I think he also suffered because of the selectors swapping him around and having wrong expectations about him. This upcoming series will be good chance for him to restablish a place in the team.

bangla786
June 4, 2007, 09:24 PM
People who wants Tamim in test squad lacks some basic knowledge about test cricket. That kid can't keep his head cool for 20 overs, how is he supposed to bat for 2 and half days? Bang bang boom boom is not test cricket and until he learns how to control that rush of blood of his, we are better off keeping him in ODI squad.

In test you would have to keep your patience when good ball is bowled and have to keep in mind that if you do not lose 20 wickets you do not lose the test. Also, you would have to punish the bad ball. But, a player like tamim tries to score 10 runs a over. If that was possible, we would have 900 runs at the end of the day. That never happens and there is a reason. That is why Tamim is unfit for the test team, still.

ya and guyz like u and the selectors knows so much that even anything less than innings defeat is miracle with dis team!:floor: :floor:

tamim myt be hot headed in odi, which is needed bcz its a limited over game, but who knows how he will act in test! n for dat answer u have to give him chance untill then keep ur hand off the keyboard and also dnt talk about his ability coz he certainly is our 2nd most talented batsman!

bangla786
June 4, 2007, 09:27 PM
editeddddddd

WarWolf
June 5, 2007, 03:48 AM
so now ur telling me dis became a sharing concept, like for an example golla is having his time and afterwards tamim will have his????
if thats ur motive then a win is far from reachable my dear friend! the concept should be whoever has better skills will play , regardless of the age and apart from Ash, tamim certainly is our most skilled batsmen!

I am being defensive for preserving these young talents. Did you hear the names of Alok Kapali, Nafis Iqbal, Hannan Sarkar etc? All are victims of early pushing into national side. So be patient brother.

For me, I would like to see Tamim in the test team. But my logic says it's too early for him. Let the kid play for 'A' team and academy team for a 1/2 years more to be matured.

WarWolf
June 5, 2007, 03:52 AM
Play defensive to achieve what? If a team is playing for "draw" before a single delivery is bowled, then I'm afraid that team doesn't deserve to play at all.

I probably failed to express myself. I don't wanna go for draw if that what's the word "defensive" means. I wanna be a bit patient and defensive about bringing new players in to test squad just in order to prevent them from early drying out; we have already seen some examples like Nafis Iqbal, Alok Kapali etc.

PoorFan
June 5, 2007, 04:22 AM
The selectors just ruined our first ever opportunity of playing 3 test series! By dropping oldies and selecting young,, few good innings we might experienced under new young leadership!! Instead selectors just picked up the NAMES, not 'players for the team'!!

<!--StartFragment -->What's the point of playing off form & goner Bashar, Golla, Pilot? Even an off form Nafees ( though I can live with this )?? I am very disappointed with this test team.:hairpull:

Miraz
June 5, 2007, 04:34 AM
The selectors just ruined our first ever opportunity of playing 3 test series! By dropping oldies and selecting young,, few good innings we might experienced under new young leadership!! Instead selectors just picked up the NAMES, not 'players for the team'!!

<!--StartFragment -->What's the point of playing off form & goner Bashar, Golla, Pilot? Even an off form Nafees ( though I can live with this )?? I am very disappointed with this test team.:hairpull:

PoorFan, we have played a 3 match Test series against Pakistan in 2003. Remember Multan Test? :)

PoorFan
June 5, 2007, 04:59 AM
PoorFan, we have played a 3 match Test series against Pakistan in 2003. Remember Multan Test? :)
Thanks for pointing it right, I almost forgot that.:)

Nafi
June 5, 2007, 05:39 AM
The only thing would vex me is having both pilot and mushfiq playing on the first XI or having Pilot as a 1st choice wicketkeeper instead of Mushfiq.

Baundule
June 5, 2007, 06:19 AM
--> so just like the selectors, you guyz think tamim is no better than these nine batsman that were selected for the test squad???? if so then i swear
u guyz are buncha old mentality peoples who only thinks for respectable loose or draw!
b4 tamimz inclusion into the odi team , i remember u guyz were whining about him being so young and all that but wht happend den? he proved his place and now u guyz are saying hes too young and nt experience! wt the hell happended to ashz case when he only played two domestic cricket match and seleted as a test player and become the youngest player to make debut century!

leaving him out of the test match will jus waste his time of the career which all of us will realise when he become 35+, " oh y didnt we promote him earlier''


and we have to remember we have nothing to loose (huh even saving innings defeat would be a miracle with players like golla, haba, piloto in the team) other than trying our young players so we can have better future with them in upcoming series rather than playing with jo and the future output is nothing:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Brother, I am also a supporter of Tamim and I am sure he has got a lot of potential. But the fact is, he has proved nothing so far to cement his place. He has serious problem in his approach towards a match. He never showed that he can play according to the situation. He never showed that he can play deliveries according to their merit. His attitude towards the partner, be it JO or whoever, when he ran ran himself out also shows, he is not mentally fit yet to play in the international level.

Just to add: Tamim's WC scores: 51, 6, 1, 3, 29, 38, 8, 29, 7; avg: 19.11 at 62.54%
I dont put much emphasis on it, because I believe he can do much better. But this stat shows that he has done nothing to ensure his place in the team. His big problem is his attitude: towards the match and also towards the partner.

Shafin
June 5, 2007, 06:55 AM
The selectors just ruined our first ever opportunity of playing 3 test series! By dropping oldies and selecting young,, few good innings we might experienced under new young leadership!! Instead selectors just picked up the NAMES, not 'players for the team'!!

<!--StartFragment -->What's the point of playing off form & goner Bashar, Golla, Pilot? Even an off form Nafees ( though I can live with this )?? I am very disappointed with this test team.:hairpull:
Please compare the Selected person's and your suggested replacement's international record,and recent domestic league records,you'll find reason behind the selectors.

taklima_naj
June 5, 2007, 06:59 PM
bangla786 is tamim iqbal's pseudo name in BC. :D

Seriously speaking I did not like the selection that much. I wanted both Tamim and Aftab to be in the team.

That would be great instead of so called experience nonperformers. But......... what can I say?

taklima_naj
June 5, 2007, 07:02 PM
At least Alok or Tushar could have been included instead of out of form players

taklima_naj
June 5, 2007, 07:07 PM
I probably failed to express myself. I don't wanna go for draw if that what's the word "defensive" means. I wanna be a bit patient and defensive about bringing new players in to test squad just in order to prevent them from early drying out; we have already seen some examples like Nafis Iqbal, Alok Kapali etc.

I think Alok Kapali got his form back, and could have been included instead of Pilot or nafis/Gullu.

BD Tigers
June 5, 2007, 08:27 PM
Tamim's time will come just not yet. He has to cement his place in ODI first and play some matured innings, then we can talk abt Test.

Rubu
June 5, 2007, 09:29 PM
People still dream about alok? Wow, I thought he was forgotten. But again, when people talk about Shanto, I am not surprised.

Aritro
June 5, 2007, 09:51 PM
People still dream about alok? Wow, I thought he was forgotten. But again, when people talk about Shanto, I am not surprised.

Talent-wise, Alok's on a different plane to Shanto.

He's also 23-24.

akabir77
June 6, 2007, 10:04 AM
The test squad to SL has just been announced...

Thank you Beamer Bhai you r right on the money. True what you mentioned there... Our Test team would have 100% better then this one if they selected those three at least two.

Anyway Also you should get another big thank you for not calling names and still wrote a wonderful article which should be in the front page.

SS
June 6, 2007, 12:28 PM
selectors have no options but to choose from a pull of players who do not even play national leagues or other leagues regularly. But those who play there are showing some improvement(!), Few players, who played previously in national leagues, are showing relatively consistent performance. Among them NI,Alok, are fews to mention. There are also few others who played in U19, Academy team who are performing well too (e.g. Rakibul,Zunaed,Imrul, and few others). If BCB can put these few batsmen in A teams and arrange some longer/ODI matches with local or if possible other teams and then from the results pick the appropriate ones, it will be really helpful for our future team and also for those promising players.
We are in desperate need for atleast two good batsmen, a seamer/non-SLA spinner nowadays in both test and ODIs.

BCB showing that they are selecting players based on the performance in matches but they are not even fixing their 'problematic'/'unsuccessful' cricketing structure to produce/or fix the same mistakes our crickters making regular basis.

They haven't brought any batting coaches, not to mention no bowling coaches either.
Not enough longer version of the games, and very few of our national players even playing longer version at home. There should be more games with the top league performers, A-teams, and our national team. Could be even a small tournament where they will play more than just two games. If we can arrange few games, and then determine the player's consistency,performance etc. from those few matches.
Scoring 30 runs in two matches does not give automatic ticket to play for national side.

SMHasan
June 6, 2007, 09:09 PM
People still dream about alok? Wow, I thought he was forgotten. But again, when people talk about Shanto, I am not surprised.

Not necessarily you have to forget the cricketers who lost their way. Rather we need to find out why they are disappearing and whether we are nurturing them at all. I am not calling any players name but if you look at closely then you will see we have already lost few of our best talents. They can be called 'the lost generation'.

The way they lost their way is a kind of disease. We need to invent a vaccine for it. Our problem is we tend to discard the players who can't perform but we need to understand that we got some problems of understanding our own problems. Thus we need a vaccine for ourselves too.

selina
June 6, 2007, 09:33 PM
Not necessarily you have to forget the cricketers who lost their way. Rather we need to find out why they are disappearing and whether we are nurturing them at all. I am not calling any players name but if you look at closely then you will see we have already lost few of our best talents. They can be called 'the lost generation'.

The way they lost their way is a kind of disease. We need to invent a vaccine for it. Our problem is we tend to discard the players who can't perform but we need to understand that we got some problems of understanding our own problems. Thus we need a vaccine for ourselves too.

Totally agree with you.
We do need to diagnose the disease and quickly create a vaccine before it spreads any further.

Beamer
June 6, 2007, 09:46 PM
I do not completely agree that Rajin is a negative player in the mould of JO. His debut was in the middle of a turbulent period in BD tests when the openeing pair and middle order was in disarray ( even to this day but in a milder form). So, I think he also suffered because of the selectors swapping him around and having wrong expectations about him. This upcoming series will be good chance for him to restablish a place in the team.

No..no..not even close to comparing Rajin with JO here. I firmly said that there is an overwhelming need for a player like Rajin in the test line up, someone who will not impulsively give his wkt away ( though I think he has more room for improvement specially against spin ) , but at the same time, my point is not to have a line up dominated by limited defensive players who allow the opposition to get on top. We achieve none in the process. We are not able to play sessions/days with preferred players since they are not that good anyway. Until we have a set of players who can, or learn, to combine their defensive temperament with mixed aggression when needed, we will comtinue to falter under choking pressure. In other words, we tend to pick players for tests who can play in one gear. I think the mindset of the selectors need to change on that front as they have done so for limited format games. Just look how much we average per innings with defense first tactics - 230? 240 runs? At this point of our test history, I think we need players who has the intent to score first. Will there be failures? probably. But, I am going to back players of superior quality first, so they can at least give us a chance to post good totals with their positive intent.

One World
June 6, 2007, 11:08 PM
and Mohammad Sharif again

cricket_king
June 7, 2007, 01:57 AM
1. Mohammad Ashraful (Captain)
2. Mashrafe Bin Mortaza (Vice Captain)
3. Habibul Bashar
4. Javed Omer
5. Mehrab Hossain (Jr.)
6. Shahriar Nafees Ahmed
7. Rajin Saleh
8. Shakib Al Hasan
9. Khaled Mashud
10. Shahadat Hossain Rajib
11. Syed Rasel
12. Mohammed Rafique
13. Abdur Razzak
14. Mohammad Sharif
15. Mushfiqur Rahim


--> so just like the selectors, you guyz think tamim is no better than these nine batsman that were selected for the test squad???? if so then i swear
u guyz are buncha old mentality peoples who only thinks for respectable loose or draw!
b4 tamimz inclusion into the odi team , i remember u guyz were whining about him being so young and all that but wht happend den? he proved his place and now u guyz are saying hes too young and nt experience! wt the hell happended to ashz case when he only played two domestic cricket match and seleted as a test player and become the youngest player to make debut century!

leaving him out of the test match will jus waste his time of the career which all of us will realise when he become 35+, " oh y didnt we promote him earlier''


and we have to remember we have nothing to loose (huh even saving innings defeat would be a miracle with players like golla, haba, piloto in the team) other than trying our young players so we can have better future with them in upcoming series rather than playing with jo and the future output is nothing:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

:great: :bravo: EXCELLENT MATE! I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE!! :applause:
Tamim Rocks!! :-D
Let's take this to the board :mad: