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Slysaint
June 12, 2007, 07:50 AM
I would recommend him as the president of BCB, afterall he is fiercely loyal bengali, he was instrumental in Bangladesh getting test status and never has he failed to defend bangladesh's test status.

Apart from that, he has been a great cricket administrator, took BCCI when it was not sound financially or professionally, turned it around to a great financial powerhouse. He once again repeated the same trick with ICC. He is a shrewd business man and I am sure he can do the same for Bangladesh




(I am 100% certain this wont happen, the purpose of this thread if anyone is wondering, is to foster a healthy decent debate about qualified administrator and should foreigners be included into BCB )

Miraz
June 12, 2007, 07:57 AM
And Peter Chingoka (current president of ZC) for the President of BCCI.

He will be very effective in cutting down the player endorsments and will run BCCI strongly.

Slysaint
June 12, 2007, 08:02 AM
And Peter Chingoka (current president of ZC) for the President of BCCI.

He will be very effective in cutting down the player endorsments and will run BCCI strongly.

hahaha i am pretty sure he will be well suited for BCCI afterall their board culture is autocratic and as it seems now in shambles.

:lol:

Carte Blanche
June 12, 2007, 08:09 AM
And Peter Chingoka (current president of ZC) for the President of BCCI.

He will be very effective in cutting down the player endorsments and will run BCCI strongly.

That will be an upgrade from what they have.

Shafin
June 12, 2007, 08:27 AM
Slysaint,I'd recommend you visit this site (maps.google.com)
If you cant pick something there,then consult sorry,he is an eye specialist.

This thread should be in International Cricket.
And Being Banglali Does not Mean anything,Tony Blair is a Caucasian,and hugely loyal to America,will them make him president?

Shafin
June 12, 2007, 08:30 AM
hahaha i am pretty sure he will be well suited for BCCI afterall their board culture is autocratic and as it seems now in shambles.

:lol:
Dalmia was also an autocrat.

Slysaint
June 12, 2007, 08:52 AM
Slysaint,I'd recommend you visit this site (maps.google.com)
If you cant pick something there,then consult sorry,he is an eye specialist.

This thread should be in International Cricket.
And Being Banglali Does not Mean anything,Tony Blair is a Caucasian,and hugely loyal to America,will them make him president?

I am guessing you didnt read the whole thread? pity really perhaps dear sir its high time you see a specialist regarding ADS.

as for tony blair being president of united states since he is caucasian, might i suggest barak obama is black and is seen by many to be a front runner for 2008 presidential elections? that surely does suggest skin colour is not a requirement. Furthermore Tony Blair cant be president of US since the laws prohibit anyone who wasnt a born citizen, but that doesnt mean, if he takes US citizenship he cant run for congress or the senate.

Having said that, what does running a country and running cricket board have in common? sports is above political fray (atleast how it should be) and lastly if we can have coaches from other countries why not president and administrators? surely you dont suggest only coaches can help and administrators cant?

WarWolf
June 12, 2007, 09:08 AM
I think the thread should be in international cricket.

betaar
June 12, 2007, 10:53 AM
Having said that, what does running a country and running cricket board have in common? sports is above political fray (atleast how it should be) and lastly if we can have coaches from other countries why not president and administrators? surely you dont suggest only coaches can help and administrators cant?

I don’t believe someone who is not Bangaldeshi should be or even can be, per constitution, the president of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/ /><st1:place w:st=<st1:country-region w:st="on">Bangladesh</st1:country-region></st1:place> cricket board. But if you think he’s all that good then he can be a CEO at best but still I would not prefer having any CEO or members associated with BCB from the subcontinent speacially him. People like Dalmiya have too much baggage with them and are not professional enough to make any significant change to our cricket board. We need CEO’s from countries such as <st1:country-region w:st="on">Australia</st1:country-region>, <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">England</st1:place></st1:country-region> to run a very professional management away from politics

gatekeeper
June 12, 2007, 12:58 PM
I don’t believe someone who is not Bangaldeshi should be or even can be, per constitution, the president of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/ /><st1:place w:st=<st1:country-region w:st="on">Bangladesh</st1:country-region></st1:place> cricket board. But if you think he’s all that good then he can be a CEO at best but still I would not prefer having any CEO or members associated with BCB from the subcontinent speacially him. People like Dalmiya have too much baggage with them and are not professional enough to make any significant change to our cricket board. We need CEO’s from countries such as <st1:country-region w:st="on">Australia</st1:country-region>, <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">England</st1:place></st1:country-region> to run a very professional management away from politics

No country has a monopoly od professionalism.

Fazal
June 12, 2007, 01:04 PM
Kintu Dal Miya jodi ChaCha-ke Captain Banayee Feeriyee Aney?

Nafi
June 12, 2007, 01:07 PM
lets make the the founder of youtube president of BCB, I heard he is ha;f-bangladeshi ;)

Shafin
June 12, 2007, 01:17 PM
lets make the the founder of youtube president of BCB, I heard he is ha;f-bangladeshi ;)
Zawad Karim?
He'd be much better for the job than some dal-torkari mia

Disclaimer: I have no disrespect for Jogmohan Dalmiah,he was a great cricket visionary and one of the pilers of our test status.I'm just plain pissed by the idea that we should install someone as shrewd and politics oriented in our country.He was also the man who started the money game in India,and attracted current mothballs.Also he,during his tenure,did not invite us.

Shafin
June 12, 2007, 01:44 PM
I would recommend him as the president of BCB, afterall he is fiercely loyal bengali, he was instrumental in Bangladesh getting test status and never has he failed to defend bangladesh's test status.


as for tony blair being president of united states since he is caucasian, might i suggest barak obama is black and is seen by many to be a front runner for 2008 presidential elections? that surely does suggest skin colour is not a requirement. Furthermore Tony Blair cant be president of US since the laws prohibit anyone who wasnt a born citizen, but that doesnt mean, if he takes US citizenship he cant run for congress or the senate.

You got me wrong here,I was merely trying to point out that being ethnically bangali does not automatically make someone eligible for anything related to Bangladesh,as being Caucasian does not make someone eligible for a post in a Caucasian majority country.
Of course someone not ethnically bangali but with Bangladeshi Nation has the right to contend for our nations leadership,and if I find him better than others,believe me,I'll support him.

I am guessing you didnt read the whole thread? pity really perhaps dear sir its high time you see a specialist regarding ADS.


Dear sir,
may I suggest that you take some time to read the forum rules,in fact this particular rule (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/faq.php?faq=new_faq_item#zzzz1) No. A.1.2 and stop analyzing other people's mental capabilities.

Slysaint
June 12, 2007, 01:55 PM
Zawad Karim?
He'd be much better for the job than some dal-torkari mia

Disclaimer: I have no disrespect for Jogmohan Dalmiah,he was a great cricket visionary and one of the pilers of our test status.I'm just plain pissed by the idea that we should install someone as shrewd and politics oriented in our country.He was also the man who started the money game in India,and attracted current mothballs.Also he,during his tenure,did not invite us.


thats very true, that is indeed part of his record, but if we look at the same thing from another angle we get to see that BCCI became a financial powerhouse, he was able to fine revenue streams that was unheard of before. Unfortunately, BCCI mis managed such funds, or maybe that India is such a huge country, with so many levels of cricket involved, billion dollars just might not be enough. I am not saying Bangladesh cricket will be able to achieve such heights but even 20% or so of that would be great for BCB.

But the wider question which i am trying to deal with here, Management (not team, but office) is quite essential and lets face it, Bangladesh is not known for superb management skills, and not just that running a huge enterprise such as BCB require true business professionals, there is a thread on BC forum as we speak were they are looking to hire a lot of ppl, unfortunately they havent even set the qualification standards yet. would BCB be served much better atleast for the developmental stages (sorta like 3rd wheel on a bicycle) by someone from outside?

betaar
June 12, 2007, 01:57 PM
No country has a monopoly od professionalism.

Exactly....but some countries (not necessarily it is limited to England and Australia only and that's why I said "such as") are better than others.

Slysaint
June 12, 2007, 01:58 PM
Dear sir,
may I suggest that you take some time to read the forum rules,in fact this particular rule (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/faq.php?faq=new_faq_item#zzzz1) No. A.1.2 and stop analyzing other people's mental capabilities.[/QUOTE]


All fair, but do understand if you do not wish to spanked then dont go around hitting right? if you hit its only fair expectation that would might be hit back. so keep your unwitty beligerence to yourself if possible contribute postively, if not its best not to be part of it, dont you agree?

tigerpain
June 12, 2007, 02:10 PM
I would like to nominate my self for BCCI president:big_hug: . i am very dedicate BD cricket fan:flag: ...if i get this position i will let my american dream to go away and purse my career in BD forever:smug: lol , i am seems to be very confident to do job well done! i will make current captured BD politicians:lol: to be a ground men, may Khaleda or/and Hasina (making lunch for our valued players!! they seems to better in kicthen rather in Political field:wave: ) after all they owe lots to BD people:flag: .

Shafin
June 12, 2007, 02:10 PM
agreed.Truce offered.

Bengaliprince176
June 12, 2007, 02:10 PM
LMAO, this thread wud be a good one, IF DALMIYA WAS ACTUALLY BENGALI?!?!??!!?

He belongs to the marwari business region of kolkata!! but i agree he helped out Bangladesh and he has lived in kolkata a long time

Slysaint
June 12, 2007, 02:17 PM
agreed.Truce offered.
gladly accepted

:wave: :big_hug:

Shafin
June 12, 2007, 02:21 PM
LMAO, this thread wud be a good one, IF DALMIYA WAS ACTUALLY BENGALI?!?!??!!?

He belongs to the marwari business region of kolkata!! but i agree he helped out Bangladesh and he has lived in kolkata a long time
That'd explain his financial brilliance in Indian cricket.

Slysaint
June 12, 2007, 02:25 PM
LMAO, this thread wud be a good one, IF DALMIYA WAS ACTUALLY BENGALI?!?!??!!?

He belongs to the marwari business region of kolkata!! but i agree he helped out Bangladesh and he has lived in kolkata a long time

that part is inconsequential to the wider question.

2ndly a question, in bangladesh we have lots of ppl who we call bhiraris, if they speak only bengali, are we not allowed to say they are bengali too? how many generation of assimilation does it take for one to become part of a culture? just cause someones ancestors came from somewhere else doesnt make them anyless part of the culture. most bengalis are either hindus or muslims, but if we go way back we will find bengal was bastion of buddism, are bengalis not hindus? not muslims? how about the christians? what happens to them? 2ndly, gupta empire stretched far into present day afghanistan, so by that measure do we call afghanistanis long lost bengalis? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:IndiaGuptaEmpire.jpg

how about the palas? which stretched into iran? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Devapala.jpg
just a question pls dont be offended ..

uss01
June 12, 2007, 02:25 PM
That is the stupidest reason to hire someone for that position, even if he was Bengali. Big deal. That's like asking a Sri Lankan Tamil to be CEO of Tamil Nadu Cricket Association or whatever association they might have over there just because he is Tamil.

It's the qualifications and experience that count. Your second paragraph summarizes those and I agree. Basically I like your post except for the first paragraph.




I would recommend him as the president of BCB, afterall he is fiercely loyal bengali, he was instrumental in Bangladesh getting test status and never has he failed to defend bangladesh's test status.

Apart from that, he has been a great cricket administrator, took BCCI when it was not sound financially or professionally, turned it around to a great financial powerhouse. He once again repeated the same trick with ICC. He is a shrewd business man and I am sure he can do the same for Bangladesh




(I am 100% certain this wont happen, the purpose of this thread if anyone is wondering, is to foster a healthy decent debate about qualified administrator and should foreigners be included into BCB )

Bengaliprince176
June 12, 2007, 04:01 PM
that part is inconsequential to the wider question.

2ndly a question, in bangladesh we have lots of ppl who we call bhiraris, if they speak only bengali, are we not allowed to say they are bengali too? how many generation of assimilation does it take for one to become part of a culture? just cause someones ancestors came from somewhere else doesnt make them anyless part of the culture. most bengalis are either hindus or muslims, but if we go way back we will find bengal was bastion of buddism, are bengalis not hindus? not muslims? how about the christians? what happens to them? 2ndly, gupta empire stretched far into present day afghanistan, so by that measure do we call afghanistanis long lost bengalis? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:IndiaGuptaEmpire.jpg

how about the palas? which stretched into iran? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Devapala.jpg
just a question pls dont be offended ..


woah woah woah slysaint i was just makin a point to an earlier point to someone who said Dalmiya is a Bengali he isnt, and i knw many marwaris in kolkata in, who are proud of marwari descendecy. so they should be! and from what i have heard their are biharis in Bangladesh who are Biharis but are Bangladeshis (nationality), i dont want to go into this discussion coz its bin discussed many times. bengalis is an ethnicity and a definition for people from the region of bengal. for the people in west bengal this is what they believe, as for language barriers, everyone in india are told to learn hindi, does that mean they arent bengali, the ones that only know hindi? Bangladeshi, from what i have seen from this forum, correct me if im wrong, is a nationality, you get Bengali Bangladeshis, Bihari Bangladeshis etc. ur comment is like sayin, because im writin in english does that make me English??

lastly, dalmiya is a Marwari, they are proud people so they should be, I can proudly say Kolkata is a liberal city with many different people (majority Bong) if their are Marwaris who say they are Bengali than Marwari then i take back my entire statement and apologise.

User Name
June 12, 2007, 04:09 PM
Dalmia Bengali?

FagunerAgun
June 12, 2007, 04:29 PM
And Peter Chingoka (current president of ZC) for the President of BCCI.

He will be very effective in cutting down the player endorsments and will run BCCI strongly.

:floor: :floor: :floor: :floor:

Electrequiem
June 12, 2007, 09:06 PM
And Peter Chingoka (current president of ZC) for the President of BCCI.

He will be very effective in cutting down the player endorsments and will run BCCI strongly.

LOL Good one

Sumon77
June 12, 2007, 09:33 PM
I would like to nominate my self for BCCI president:big_hug: . i am very dedicate BD cricket fan:flag: ...if i get this position i will let my american dream to go away and purse my career in BD forever:smug: lol , i am seems to be very confident to do job well done! i will make current captured BD politicians:lol: to be a ground men, may Khaleda or/and Hasina (making lunch for our valued players!! they seems to better in kicthen rather in Political field:wave: ) after all they owe lots to BD people:flag: .
hahaaa...confused with BCCI and BCB?

tigerpain
June 12, 2007, 10:12 PM
was actually typo....:-D

yaseer
June 12, 2007, 11:02 PM
I would recommend him as the president of BCB, afterall he is fiercely loyal bengali

He speaks bengali, so what? Don't mix up with Bangladeshi and bengali speaking Indians.

Ganguly da
June 12, 2007, 11:31 PM
ANYONE but Sharad pawar for BCCI chief position.... seriously...anyone...

Sohel
June 13, 2007, 02:49 AM
And Peter Chingoka (current president of ZC) for the President of BCCI.

He will be very effective in cutting down the player endorsments and will run BCCI strongly.

beautiful straight drive Miraz bhai ... any chase is futile.

dalmiyar dail ? ... thanks but no thanks. saber bhai will do just fine.

Rabz
June 13, 2007, 05:27 AM
I would recommend him as the president of BCB, afterall he is fiercely loyal bengali, he was instrumental in Bangladesh getting test status and never has he failed to defend bangladesh's test status.

Apart from that, he has been a great cricket administrator, took BCCI when it was not sound financially or professionally, turned it around to a great financial powerhouse. He once again repeated the same trick with ICC. He is a shrewd business man and I am sure he can do the same for Bangladesh

(I am 100% certain this wont happen, the purpose of this thread if anyone is wondering, is to foster a healthy decent debate about qualified administrator and should foreigners be included into BCB )

:floor: :floor: :floor:

man u r funny...
i propose to move this section to "forget cricket" forum...
this is more of a "joke of the day" material...

sheikh
June 13, 2007, 06:15 AM
There should be a marking system for thread opening. Negative marking for unwanted threads.
Scale +10 to -10
Sorry, I can't be so offensive to rate this thread.

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 07:48 AM
woah woah woah slysaint i was just makin a point to an earlier point to someone who said Dalmiya is a Bengali he isnt, and i knw many marwaris in kolkata in, who are proud of marwari descendecy. so they should be! and from what i have heard their are biharis in Bangladesh who are Biharis but are Bangladeshis (nationality), i dont want to go into this discussion coz its bin discussed many times. bengalis is an ethnicity and a definition for people from the region of bengal. for the people in west bengal this is what they believe, as for language barriers, everyone in india are told to learn hindi, does that mean they arent bengali, the ones that only know hindi? Bangladeshi, from what i have seen from this forum, correct me if im wrong, is a nationality, you get Bengali Bangladeshis, Bihari Bangladeshis etc. ur comment is like sayin, because im writin in english does that make me English??

lastly, dalmiya is a Marwari, they are proud people so they should be, I can proudly say Kolkata is a liberal city with many different people (majority Bong) if their are Marwaris who say they are Bengali than Marwari then i take back my entire statement and apologise.

well having read your statement, there are a few points where i would like to respectfully disagree, bengali is not an ethnicity, it is a language, just like french is a language, out in canada there are french ppl from irish background, ask them if they are not french? (there has been premiers from that background) you will be surprised to hear the answer, how about in france from algeria etc? how about spanish ppl from latin america? someone can be proud of their background, it is very commendable, but doesnt mean they arent also something else, aka the tongue they use.

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 07:59 AM
There should be a marking system for thread opening. Negative marking for unwanted threads.
Scale +10 to -10
Sorry, I can't be so offensive to rate this thread.
perhaps this is whats wrong with bengali mentality, will all due respect, we are quick to criticize any new ideas, however controversial they maybe, but never give any new idea to replace it, let alone bringing fresh ideas, just as your post suggest, you dont even back up ur statement with reasons why you do such. such is terribly wrong with that sorta thinking.

we are whining about state of bangladesh cricket, but we are also hopeful because a country of 150 million ppl, surely we have scope to improve, not just that dominate also. We often speak of the fresh talent that is coming in and how they are wasted because of domestic league system. in order to improve present bangladesh system so it can have sustainable growth, money is needed. money is needed for better facilities, money is needed for scouting, money is needed to setup a proper feeder system from schools etc. money is needed for development of the game. I recommended someone, who has proven track record to getting financial house in order, irrespective of all his flaws. but i didnt close the book and say he should be the only, I left open for proper constructive debate to the topic of professional admistrators, and yes from other countries. the board spit into three, one handling finances and one handling game development, one handling player selection etc. Not just that the idea of give me money (hence playing as many internationals if possible 365 a year) and we will be able to do improve the game is pretty arrogant, I humbly suggest, managing finances is big part of growing any institution. Bangladesh in every field has shown it is unable to do such, hence its wise to learn from others atleast for the short run.

I do not see you suggesting any ideas to improve the present situation, at best what u are doing is leaving it to divine will ..

Sohel
June 13, 2007, 08:14 AM
well having read your statement, there are a few points where i would like to respectfully disagree, bengali is not an ethnicity, it is a language, just like french is a language, out in canada there are french ppl from irish background, ask them if they are not french? (there has been premiers from that background) you will be surprised to hear the answer, how about in france from algeria etc? how about spanish ppl from latin america? someone can be proud of their background, it is very commendable, but doesnt mean they arent also something else, aka the tongue they use.

i agree for the most part ... but FYI: the metis amongst the quebequois - early french trappers who have close ties to the native algonquin nations, especially the huron - distinguish themselves from other quebequois AND the french. as do the french algerians, as well as the "pied noirs", the french who settled in algeria, like albert camus, and got thrown out after algerian independence. i think bengalipri was making a similar distinction between bengalis and bengali-speaking marwaries.

i'm a huge fan of manoj tiwary BTW, and would be proud to have him in my pan-bengal team alongside dada and 9 bangladeshis. dlamyia's dail is just a bit too offensive for some of us bangladeshis not because of dalmiya or dail, but because most of us still do not look to india for every little light. also, if you explore BC a bit more mah brotha, you'll see many of us manage to rise above our "bangal musholman" mentality, and actually suggest constructive alternatives to the current status quo. we will solve our own problems thank you.

sheikh
June 13, 2007, 08:15 AM
You want me to back my ideas for not to like Dalmia as BCB boss? Joking? BAD joke man. Very bad joke.

Rabz
June 13, 2007, 08:21 AM
:hairpull: :hairpull:

:confused: :confused:

:timeout: :timeout:

:doh: :doh:

:mad: :mad:

:eek: :eek:

------------------------- :waiting: :waiting: ---------------------

:floor: :floor: :floor: :floor: :floor:

make your own story.

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 08:23 AM
You want me to back my ideas for not to like Dalmia as BCB boss? Joking? BAD joke man. Very bad joke.

well i see so far just petulence of a simpleton child, nothing constructive of any regard, why dont you suggest something constructive? critique showing intelligence? so far after having read a lot of your post, i am sorry to say, all shows not just total disrespect to others and disregarding decency, but also total lack of any sign of intelligence.

i do welcome you to suggest fresh ideas, critique using intelligence, which can be contructive to the debate, jagmohan in particular and foreign adminstrators in general, why such is a bad idea etc etc

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 08:26 AM
i agree ... but FYI: the metis amongst the quebequois - early french trappers who have close ties to the native angolquin nations, especially the huron - distinguish themselves from other quebequois AND the french. as do the french algerians, as well as the "pied noirs", the french who settled in algeria, like albert camus, and got thrown out after algerian independence. i think bengalipri was making a similar distinction between bengalis and bengali-speaking marwaries.

i'm a huge fan of manoj tiwary BTW, and would be proud to have him in my pan-bengal team.


marwari is a background, bengali is a language, thats the point i am making and having been trying to make, as for first nations example, such is true for almost every canadian and americans, all are from different background, but its the language that binds

Bengaliprince176
June 13, 2007, 09:49 AM
slysaint, i disagree with u, if u think bengali is a language, then what background are the 100 million indian bengalis then??? what a ridicoulous statement, without meaning to be rude, so punjabis can speak punjabi and have punjabi background, as can gujaratis, tamils, maratis etc, but Indian bengalis cant!!! maybe this is a confusion of a BAngldeshi/West Bengal issue in difference, could u please explain??

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 10:11 AM
slysaint, i disagree with u, if u think bengali is a language, then what background are the 100 million indian bengalis then??? what a ridicoulous statement, without meaning to be rude, so punjabis can speak punjabi and have punjabi background, as can gujaratis, tamils, maratis etc, but Indian bengalis cant!!! maybe this is a confusion of a BAngldeshi/West Bengal issue in difference, could u please explain??

so you are saying bengali is not a language? btw if you go back through history, you will see what you today term as "ethnically bengali" are mixed of various races. like i have said and have given examples, are you trying to say those speaking french in canada of irish background, metis background, etc shouldnt be allowed to term selves as french ? there are those in canada of french background and do not speak a word of french, are they still french? how about germans, etc cmon now, its simple if you speak the language as ur 1st language you are bengali, if you dont, you arent bengali. My mothers tongue is bengali, but i wouldnt say thats my 1st language, hence i am not fully bengali.

Surfer
June 13, 2007, 10:27 AM
Dalmiya? lol......one thing he can definitely give BCB is a funds-rich balance sheet.:D

He is a businessman of top order. Even ICC used to have depleted bank accounts before Dalmiya joined them ad taught them how to make mony.

Bengaliprince176
June 13, 2007, 10:37 AM
so you are saying bengali is not a language? btw if you go back through history, you will see what you today term as "ethnically bengali" are mixed of various races. like i have said and have given examples, are you trying to say those speaking french in canada of irish background, metis background, etc shouldnt be allowed to term selves as french ? there are those in canada of french background and do not speak a word of french, are they still french? how about germans, etc cmon now, its simple if you speak the language as ur 1st language you are bengali, if you dont, you arent bengali. My mothers tongue is bengali, but i wouldnt say thats my 1st language, hence i am not bengali.


lol, slysaint, i reli dont understand what u r talkin about??? but i think i know what ur tryin to get at, i think its just a difference of opinion and belief. i dont think a language chnages who u are, i speak english as my first language but still speak bangla, but maybe coz im an immigrant in UK, im not keen to accept this fact. i never said bengali isnt a language, but im sayin dalmiya is marwari, he may speak bengali, but that doesnt change his background. ur canadian french thing doesnt make sense. ur sayin they are irish/metish background, SO THAT MEANS THEY ARE THAT BACKGROUND, ur even sayin this urself. if u were sayin they are all white, caucasian background then i wud agree wiv u. Btw cuan u please tell me the difference between mother tongue and 1st language, coz wudnt that be the same thing? just curious

btw, if i am appearing agressive or stubborn please dont think that, im just putting forward my views and i respect ur views im just confused whats ur exact point. thanks

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 10:51 AM
lol, slysaint, i reli dont understand what u r talkin about??? but i think i know what ur tryin to get at, i think its just a difference of opinion and belief. i dont think a language chnages who u are, i speak english as my first language but still speak bangla, but maybe coz im an immigrant in UK, im not keen to accept this fact. i never said bengali isnt a language, but im sayin dalmiya is marwari, he may speak bengali, but that doesnt change his background. ur canadian french thing doesnt make sense. ur sayin they are irish/metish background, SO THAT MEANS THEY ARE THAT BACKGROUND, ur even sayin this urself. if u were sayin they are all white, caucasian background then i wud agree wiv u. Btw cuan u please tell me the difference between mother tongue and 1st language, coz wudnt that be the same thing? just curious

btw, if i am appearing agressive or stubborn please dont think that, im just putting forward my views and i respect ur views im just confused whats ur exact point. thanks

a forceful dialogue as such we are having is pretty healthy, its all for understanding and learning, hence i appreciate your "aggressive/stubborn" ways, you are giving your opinions in a very intelligent manner and do understand i totally respect that. It is also giving me the opportunity to broaden my views and hopefully i am able to do the same with yours.

now having said that, what i trying to do is seperate language from ethnicity, cultural traits that seperates us from another, marwaris have certain cultural traits, religious traits, same can be said of west bengal and bangladesh and for that matter, tripura, assam bihar, orrissa, myanmar even british, canadian american etc .. but its the language that unites. so since jagmohan speaks bengali as his 1st language he can be called bengali, at the same token mittal (i have spoken to him personally) he speaks bengali, grew up in bengal, but uses hindi as his 1st language cant be termed bengali.

do u see the point i am making?>

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 10:54 AM
Dalmiya? lol......one thing he can definitely give BCB is a funds-rich balance sheet.:D

He is a businessman of top order. Even ICC used to have depleted bank accounts before Dalmiya joined them ad taught them how to make mony.

my point exactly, funds rich BCB is good for bangladesh cricket ..

Bengaliprince176
June 13, 2007, 11:05 AM
a forceful dialogue as such we are having is pretty healthy, its all for understanding and learning, hence i appreciate your "aggressive/stubborn" ways, you are giving your opinions in a very intelligent manner and do understand i totally respect that. It is also giving me the opportunity to broaden my views and hopefully i am able to do the same with yours.

now having said that, what i trying to do is seperate language from ethnicity, cultural traits that seperates us from another, marwaris have certain cultural traits, religious traits, same can be said of west bengal and bangladesh and for that matter, tripura, assam bihar, orrissa, myanmar even british, canadian american etc .. but its the language that unites. so since jagmohan speaks bengali as his 1st language he can be called bengali, at the same token mittal (i have spoken to him personally) he speaks bengali, grew up in bengal, but uses hindi as his 1st language cant be termed bengali.

do u see the point i am making?>


kk mate, i see ur point, i dont fully agree, but i can see what u r trying to say. i think that its not a case of right and wrong, but different views on things because of perhaps upbringing. i personally think language and ethnicity can be different, but ur point is understandable. but can i ask somehting,

take our friend ganguly da (sorry to get u involved bro) i was tkn to him, and he said he is a third bengali, a third iranian and a third sumthing else( soz gangu). I knw the third seems strange (it did to me) thats his apperent ethnicity to him. what u wud be sayin is that he is wrong and that he is bengali (depending on language spoken to him). thats what im gettin confused about, ur sayin a mixture of culture is hence impossible with ur view, i persoannly am 7/8 bengali and 1/8 marati, which i am proudly strong of. but i speak english first hand with a crude mixture of kolkatan bengali, what does that make me English?? i hope not, coz im fiercely proud of being from South Asia. but i see ur point of view and i can understand what ur relating to as technically we are all humans and we originate from apes!!

Baundule
June 13, 2007, 11:08 AM
I would recommend him as the president of BCB, afterall he is fiercely loyal bengali, he was instrumental in Bangladesh getting test status and never has he failed to defend bangladesh's test status.

Apart from that, he has been a great cricket administrator, took BCCI when it was not sound financially or professionally, turned it around to a great financial powerhouse. He once again repeated the same trick with ICC. He is a shrewd business man and I am sure he can do the same for Bangladesh




(I am 100% certain this wont happen, the purpose of this thread if anyone is wondering, is to foster a healthy decent debate about qualified administrator and should foreigners be included into BCB )

Good thread to start with and get attention :-D

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 11:14 AM
kk mate, i see ur point, i dont fully agree, but i can see what u r trying to say. i think that its not a case of right and wrong, but different views on things because of perhaps upbringing. i personally think language and ethnicity can be different, but ur point is understandable. but can i ask somehting,

take our friend ganguly da (sorry to get u involved bro) i was tkn to him, and he said he is a third bengali, a third iranian and a third sumthing else( soz gangu). I knw the third seems strange (it did to me) thats his apperent ethnicity to him. what u wud be sayin is that he is wrong and that he is bengali (depending on language spoken to him). thats what im gettin confused about, ur sayin a mixture of culture is hence impossible with ur view, i persoannly am 7/8 bengali and 1/8 marati, which i am proudly strong of. but i speak english first hand with a crude mixture of kolkatan bengali, what does that make me English?? i hope not, coz im fiercely proud of being from South Asia. but i see ur point of view and i can understand what ur relating to as technically we are all humans and we originate from apes!!

well the situation is the same as me, I am half french half bengali, i speak french english and bengali, but i am much more comfortable with english. so language wise I am english, ethnically I am french and bangladeshi, does that make sense?

Bengaliprince176
June 13, 2007, 11:18 AM
so if i said language wise dalmiya is bengali, but ethnically he is marwari, which is what i should have said at the beginning of this thread, wud that be correct in your opinion?

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 11:20 AM
so if i said language wise dalmiya is bengali, but ethnically he is marwari, which is what i should have said at the beginning of this thread, wud that be correct in your opinion?

I would agree with that, cause normally, i seperate language cultural traits, eventhough language is a big part of a culture, but in this world of mixing and moving, its much wiser according to many sociologist.

Bengaliprince176
June 13, 2007, 11:25 AM
ok perhaps ur rite, i mean its no coincidence that sub continent ethnicities are named after languages, as the examples i gave, from now on i will use those 2 different things when refering. its bin a good discussion, u made some interesting points

Beamer
June 13, 2007, 12:56 PM
We have a very capable guy in Syed Ashraful Huq who has been running the Asian Cricket Council admirably for a while. We should for sure give him a serious look. He will rise to the top of ICC chain in coming years.

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 01:01 PM
We have a very capable guy in Syed Ashraful Huq who has been running the Asian Cricket Council admirably for a while. We should for sure give him a serious look. He will rise to the top of ICC chain in coming years.

he indeed should be given serious consideration, i wonder why he hasnt been invited yet :(

Fortuner
June 13, 2007, 01:45 PM
no way..he is after all an indian..........we need a Bangladeshi by heart in the post of bcb presidnet.

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 01:58 PM
no way..he is after all an indian..........we need a Bangladeshi by heart in the post of bcb presidnet.

even if it means someone substandard? as we have now?

uss01
June 13, 2007, 03:44 PM
Slysaint, Bengali is not just a language. It's also an ethnicity. You're embarassing Bengalis in India and Bangladesh by saying it's a language only. Oh yes, the Canadian French are of French background / ethnicity. I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of ethnicity and language. Perhaps you should look into it's use and definitions in books.

BTW, on another level, I dont' like the tone some people in this forum use the word Bengali and Bangladeshi irreplacably. Yes, most people in Bangladesh are bengali. But there are many who are not bengali. They are of mixed decent and many whose ancestors are from other parts of the sub continent like people whose ancestors are from Pakistan and some from UP / Bihar in India, but those people are settled in Bangladesh now. Not to mention people of Chakma descent. Plus it's politically correct to use Bangladeshi as you're not being precise enough since Bengali could imply Bengalis in India too.

So, all in all you're not recognizing that Bengali is not just a language. Second you're also thinking being Bengali is a major criteria to recruit the next CEO of BCB.


so you are saying bengali is not a language? btw if you go back through history, you will see what you today term as "ethnically bengali" are mixed of various races. like i have said and have given examples, are you trying to say those speaking french in canada of irish background, metis background, etc shouldnt be allowed to term selves as french ? there are those in canada of french background and do not speak a word of french, are they still french? how about germans, etc cmon now, its simple if you speak the language as ur 1st language you are bengali, if you dont, you arent bengali. My mothers tongue is bengali, but i wouldnt say thats my 1st language, hence i am not fully bengali.

uss01
June 13, 2007, 03:47 PM
Doesn't make any sense, I speak English, doesn't mean language wise i am English. You can't use that word as a noun. You can only use it as a noun if you are actually of that ethnic background. I believe you need to look up ethnicity in the dictionary.

Bengali is a language and ethnicity. Same with English, Punjabi, French, etc. It just depends on the context which you use it. I am sure other people in the forum will agree with me.

I would agree with that, cause normally, i seperate language cultural traits, eventhough language is a big part of a culture, but in this world of mixing and moving, its much wiser according to many sociologist.

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 04:01 PM
Slysaint, Bengali is not just a language. It's also an ethnicity. You're embarassing Bengalis in India and Bangladesh by saying it's a language only. Oh yes, the Canadian French are of French background / ethnicity. I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of ethnicity and language. Perhaps you should look into it's use and definitions in books.

BTW, on another level, I dont' like the tone some people in this forum use the word Bengali and Bangladeshi irreplacably. Yes, most people in Bangladesh are bengali. But there are many who are not bengali. They are of mixed decent and many whose ancestors are from other parts of the sub continent like people whose ancestors are from Pakistan and some from UP / Bihar in India, but those people are settled in Bangladesh now. Not to mention people of Chakma descent. Plus it's politically correct to use Bangladeshi as you're not being precise enough since Bengali could imply Bengalis in India too.

So, all in all you're not recognizing that Bengali is not just a language. Second you're also thinking being Bengali is a major criteria to recruit the next CEO of BCB.


perhaps grade school education can lead one only so far as you have come. why dont u work in restaurants while others can disucuss such things ..

Bengali is a language, plain and simple as that. like i have stated west bengal and bangladesh has many cultural differences, starting from religion to food and in many instances clothing too ..whatever. same can be said about the differences between bengali speakers from bihar, orrissa, tripura, assam etc .. there is a huge gap between the cultures, only thing that unites is the language. just like austria and germany, when was the last time you heard someone from austria calling themselves "german" eventhough they speak the same language, even when austrian were ruling over germany it was called "austro hungarian empire" so when was the last time you heard someone from germany calling themselves austrian? how about german speakers in Italy? do tell me , afterall they have been living there since odoacer's time atleast if not from the time of alaric, when he sacked rome? since all german stock is ethnically goths, when was the last time you heard collective german speaking groups call themselves Goths? do answer me

chinese is a culture, eventhough there are many languages involved, such as mandarin, cantonese, hakka, wu etc ... so do tell me .. what the heck is a chinese language, since its a family of languages.

bengali has ceased to be an ethnic identity as soon as the 1905 partition took place in many aspect. eventhough it is still used, which i did admit, inspite of all the differences that exists, which is wrong.

2ndly learn before you speak, not all french canadian are french ethenicities, even in france most muslim french are ethnic backgrounds of other countries, such as algeria etc. heck even the new president is hungarian, so does that not make him french aka from france, how about french speakers from belgium? swiss, germany? how about those in france from haiti, cameroon, cote d'ivoire etc, would term those ppl to be "ethnically french" their mother has always been french .. so do feel free to answer

spanish people from latin america, am sure working as bus boy u will come across a lot of them and ask if they see themselves as latino or spanish?

you may speak english, but defining aspect would be if you see such to be ur prime language, one u use in your thoughts, speak to a sociologist for more elaboration (just walk into any university),

language is often used as prime cultural indicator for previous markings, and these days with ppl moving across regions, settlements happening around the world, it is slowly turning into more geographical base or using common traits. for intermixing that is happening rapidly is giving way to new definitions. its a gradual process but is giving way to such.

for example me, french father, bangladeshi mother, 100% english, what am i hybrid? or the age old term that doesnt make sense of true identity .. "mixed" or canadian? if you say i am french, i have no contact with which one can term as "common experience" with french, other than the language, same goes for bengali .. what does that make me ? if i speak all 3 languages fluently?

so seriously mr know it all .. use beligerence with someone else ..am pretty sure you get beaten up often in real life, hence u are trying to be all macho in here

2ndly check the thread fully i did open it with such, but it deals with wider question of someone outsider as ceo/president


P.s just travel to india and u will see the differences how they term themselves as, in bangladesh .. its bangali, in west bengali they use "bengoli"when speaking about themselves .. subtle difference, but its still a difference


as for speaking english, and being english, it is accepted someone from england is english, not someone from america or canada, same goes for french, it is geographically defined, it also includes anyone and everyone who doesnt speak a word of english, or french, they are from the region, have the shared experiences etc .. they are english or french anyone living in spain is spanish. bengali speakers in assam are assamese still .. (go ask them, they will tell you) anyone living in china is chinese, doesnt matter if they speak mandarin cantonese etc .. do u understand ..heck, the queen of england herself is saxe coburg gotha, when was the last time you heard her say she is german or bavarian?

not just that, would u like to ask irish, the scots, if they see themselves as ethnically english? they do speak english, try it and wear a helmet when you do ask the irish, cause you would be beaten up

Slysaint
June 13, 2007, 07:09 PM
Slysaint, Bengali is not just a language. It's also an ethnicity. You're embarassing Bengalis in India and Bangladesh by saying it's a language only. Oh yes, the Canadian French are of French background / ethnicity. I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of ethnicity and language. Perhaps you should look into it's use and definitions in books.




ohh yeah i forgot to add, why dont u go asking around brown ppl outside the country, and ask them what are they, you will find out, they will align themselves as bangladeshi or indian or srilankan or pakistani. they wont say if they are bengali and certainly wont say punjabi if they are from pakistan, only after much prodding like what kinda indian or pakistani would they say "bengal" and even then would have to ask "do u speak bengali.

cricket_king
June 14, 2007, 01:18 AM
I would recommend him as the president of BCB, afterall he is fiercely loyal bengali, he was instrumental in Bangladesh getting test status and never has he failed to defend bangladesh's test status.

Apart from that, he has been a great cricket administrator, took BCCI when it was not sound financially or professionally, turned it around to a great financial powerhouse. He once again repeated the same trick with ICC. He is a shrewd business man and I am sure he can do the same for Bangladesh




(I am 100% certain this wont happen, the purpose of this thread if anyone is wondering, is to foster a healthy decent debate about qualified administrator and should foreigners be included into BCB )

Uh.....are you serious? :waiting:

Tintin
June 14, 2007, 01:31 AM
Slysaint and USS01 : Please keep the insults out.

Slysaint
June 14, 2007, 06:10 AM
Uh.....are you serious? :waiting:

not really .. as i mentioned in the last paragraph

Slysaint
June 14, 2007, 06:13 AM
Doesn't make any sense, I speak English, doesn't mean language wise i am English. You can't use that word as a noun. You can only use it as a noun if you are actually of that ethnic background. I believe you need to look up ethnicity in the dictionary.

Bengali is a language and ethnicity. Same with English, Punjabi, French, etc. It just depends on the context which you use it. I am sure other people in the forum will agree with me.


tell me something since punjabi is an ethnicity, why do pakistani and indian punjabi use different scripts? pakistani punjabi uses shahmukhi script, indian punjabi uses gurumukhi. what else other than language do those two have in common, lets start with dress, music, religion? do answer, just cause in indian movies you get to see punjabis doing balley balley, and glorification of the punjab region, travel to pakistan side and see the difference. if they really do anything in common ..

Ahmed_B
June 14, 2007, 07:12 AM
I guess I had to step in here...
2ndly learn before you speak

so seriously mr know it all .. use beligerence with someone else ..am pretty sure you get beaten up often in real life, hence u are trying to be all macho in here

To Slysaint,
Some of your posts are already edited... still I could spot these two quotes in your countless posts. There may be even more. You are requested to immediately tone down your argument style. If you feel you can't agree with someone... you are free to write whatever you want... except for forum-violations like personally attacking remarks etc!

Bengali is a language, plain and simple as that.
bengali has ceased to be an ethnic identity as soon as the 1905 partition took place in many aspect.
And I can see you are having some difficulties understanding why 'Bengali' is referred to as a Culture and not just a language. In that case... I suggest you rather try a more pateint approach and try to get into the real logics and cultural values and emotions instead of getting offended by someone who is speaking for it.

Keep the fight out.
-Moderator

Slysaint
June 14, 2007, 07:39 AM
I guess I had to step in here...

To Slysaint,
And I can see you are having some difficulties understanding why 'Bengali' is referred to as a Culture and not just a language. In that case... I suggest you rather try a more pateint approach and try to get into the real logics and cultural values and emotions instead of getting offended by someone who is speaking for it.

Keep the fight out.
-Moderator

In that case you didnt read what he wrote, as i have previously stated, a proper discourse, in any subject is good for growth and learning, which you will find in my discourse with bengalpri. the other guy walked in with rude insults, just cause he didnt agree with what i had to say, I have never said in the arrogance of self knowledge that i am always right, I merely posted dissenting arguments as to why bengali is no longer ethnicity, but just a language. Bengali is not a way of life. its no longer a common culture.


case and point, in bangladesh "khala, khalu, mama, mami" is used, in west bengal "mashi, pishi" etc are used. language been the same, the the regions has grown apart from. the "common experience" that can be used to define ethnicity no longer is available to be used as a bond, since almost everything is different now between the regions, only the language is the same. west bengal and bangladesh are two distinct cultures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group




If i am to be warned, it is only fair expectation, that he has to be warned too, dont you agree? afterall he swung 1st with vicious insults.

Ahmed_B
June 14, 2007, 07:53 AM
Slysaint...
Please check your PM. Thanks

uss01
June 15, 2007, 06:23 PM
Your last paragraph exactly proves my point. Just because Dalmiya might speak Bengali does not make him Bengali because he is Marwari. And just because I speak English does not make me English. That was my original point.

Any I would reiterate, Bengali can be used as two types of words, one as a language, the other as someone's identity / ethnicity or cultural background. And same with Punjabi, even if they use different scripts in different geographical locations.

[..edit..]


perhaps grade school education can lead one only so far as you have come. why dont u work in restaurants while others can disucuss such things ..

Bengali is a language, plain and simple as that. like i have stated west bengal and bangladesh has many cultural differences, starting from religion to food and in many instances clothing too ..whatever. same can be said about the differences between bengali speakers from bihar, orrissa, tripura, assam etc .. there is a huge gap between the cultures, only thing that unites is the language. just like austria and germany, when was the last time you heard someone from austria calling themselves "german" eventhough they speak the same language, even when austrian were ruling over germany it was called "austro hungarian empire" so when was the last time you heard someone from germany calling themselves austrian? how about german speakers in Italy? do tell me , afterall they have been living there since odoacer's time atleast if not from the time of alaric, when he sacked rome? since all german stock is ethnically goths, when was the last time you heard collective german speaking groups call themselves Goths? do answer me

chinese is a culture, eventhough there are many languages involved, such as mandarin, cantonese, hakka, wu etc ... so do tell me .. what the heck is a chinese language, since its a family of languages.

bengali has ceased to be an ethnic identity as soon as the 1905 partition took place in many aspect. eventhough it is still used, which i did admit, inspite of all the differences that exists, which is wrong.

2ndly learn before you speak, not all french canadian are french ethenicities, even in france most muslim french are ethnic backgrounds of other countries, such as algeria etc. heck even the new president is hungarian, so does that not make him french aka from france, how about french speakers from belgium? swiss, germany? how about those in france from haiti, cameroon, cote d'ivoire etc, would term those ppl to be "ethnically french" their mother has always been french .. so do feel free to answer

spanish people from latin america, am sure working as bus boy u will come across a lot of them and ask if they see themselves as latino or spanish?

you may speak english, but defining aspect would be if you see such to be ur prime language, one u use in your thoughts, speak to a sociologist for more elaboration (just walk into any university),

language is often used as prime cultural indicator for previous markings, and these days with ppl moving across regions, settlements happening around the world, it is slowly turning into more geographical base or using common traits. for intermixing that is happening rapidly is giving way to new definitions. its a gradual process but is giving way to such.

for example me, french father, bangladeshi mother, 100% english, what am i hybrid? or the age old term that doesnt make sense of true identity .. "mixed" or canadian? if you say i am french, i have no contact with which one can term as "common experience" with french, other than the language, same goes for bengali .. what does that make me ? if i speak all 3 languages fluently?

so seriously mr know it all .. use beligerence with someone else ..am pretty sure you get beaten up often in real life, hence u are trying to be all macho in here

2ndly check the thread fully i did open it with such, but it deals with wider question of someone outsider as ceo/president


P.s just travel to india and u will see the differences how they term themselves as, in bangladesh .. its bangali, in west bengali they use "bengoli"when speaking about themselves .. subtle difference, but its still a difference


as for speaking english, and being english, it is accepted someone from england is english, not someone from america or canada, same goes for french, it is geographically defined, it also includes anyone and everyone who doesnt speak a word of english, or french, they are from the region, have the shared experiences etc .. they are english or french anyone living in spain is spanish. bengali speakers in assam are assamese still .. (go ask them, they will tell you) anyone living in china is chinese, doesnt matter if they speak mandarin cantonese etc .. do u understand ..heck, the queen of england herself is saxe coburg gotha, when was the last time you heard her say she is german or bavarian?

not just that, would u like to ask irish, the scots, if they see themselves as ethnically english? they do speak english, try it and wear a helmet when you do ask the irish, cause you would be beaten up

cricket_king
June 16, 2007, 06:33 AM
It's amazing how many posts slysaint posted and how long each of them are. I just wouldn't be bothered with something that is totally pointless since it ain't gonna happen. Plus everyone seems to against the idea. I say we just don't bother with this thread anymore.

roi
June 16, 2007, 09:50 AM
I dont understand the point of this looooooooooooong thread:hairpull: :hairpull:

:confused: :confused:

:timeout: :timeout:

:doh: :doh:

betaar
June 16, 2007, 09:49 PM
I dont understand the point of this looooooooooooong thread:hairpull: :hairpull:

:confused: :confused:

:timeout: :timeout:

:doh: :doh:

The point of this thread is that we all participating in this thread are Bengali (ethnically), who may or may not speak Bengali (also termed as Bangla), who may or may not be from Bangladesh or West Bengal (which is a part of India), with lot of time on our hands. Gosh....I hope I don't start another argument. :timeout:

Surfer
June 17, 2007, 03:12 AM
The point of this thread is that we all participating in this thread are Bengali (ethnically), who may or may not speak Bengali (also termed as Bangla), who may or may not be from Bangladesh or West Bengal (which is a part of India), with lot of time on our hands. Gosh....I hope I don't start another argument. :timeout:

Is that a riddle or something?:D

WarWolf
June 17, 2007, 05:21 AM
May be i became numb these day, I really didn't understand what are the points of the arguments in this thread. Gone over my head. I don't think this thread involves cricket at all.