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ammark
June 15, 2007, 03:26 AM
I'm quite surprised that this Bangladesh Cricket Subforum in BanglaCricket has not had this following article from today's daily star up for discussion. I would have thought at least it might be in Miraz Bhai's "Cricket at Crossroads" thread, but it wasnt there either. Times like these, I miss The Watcher bhai. But I digress....

I'm very disappointed that BCB and Bangladeshi Cricket fans have suddenly become so self-absorbed and distracted with Shaun Williams coaching the National Team at Mirpur Stadium. Apparently now everyone is blind to the fact that Bangladesh's game development is facing an obstacle riddled path.

If I'm not wrong Shaun Williams was Game Development Manager, in charge of the National Cricket Academy, being involved with raising the standard of coaching. And yet, now that the Cricket Australia team of coaches to facilitate our local coaches in Level Two coaching is here... why are we disregarding the difficulties this infrastructure development is facing partly because of the national team's training??!!!

Does no one care that some privileged, coaches of Bangladesh who were selected are opting out of this Level Two training - services that our cricket infrastructure could desperately use?? No one cares that we're paying US$500,000+ for these services from CA, and we're not utilising what we're getting to the maximum??

And NO, this isnt about just reading on daily star whats happening, I'm surprised no one has criticised the BCB and at the tremendous apathy all us BC fans have been showing to such causes, while instead chasing mirages like "meditating", "Watching BD v SL", "Sidhuisms", "ESPN acquiring Cricinfo"! Here's the article, you lot... read and if you really know whats good for bangladesh cricket, WEEP!

Course not on right course
Mohammad Isam

Putting a system in place could be harder if the right atmosphere can't be created because lack of logistic support.

Cricket Australia has sent four coaches as part of their deal with Bangladesh Cricket Board (BCB) to educate local coaches through the Level Two Coaching Course but it seemed that their presence is forcing an adjustment for the rest.

With the Bangladesh team practising at the Sher-e-Bangla National Stadium in Mirpur, the coaches were not given the surroundings for neither learning nor teaching. They were given makeshift spaces to cramp in their programme. That was seemingly tough on the foreign experts.

Led by CA's international development programme manager Ross Turner, the crew from Australia are trying their level best to give Bangladesh a coaching structure the country badly needs.

Former Australian fast bowler turned coach Andrew Zesers, Ashleigh 'Toot' Byron and Graham House are here to instruct the local coaches along with Turner.

"We are here to help layout the strategy and structure for the courses, resources that will help create the coaching system that will become self-styled at some point," said Turner.

"The target for this course is to create Masters, or for that matter Mentors, who can then in turn educate the Level Two coaches."

There is a strong correlation between coaching and playing but at the same time Turner mentioned that it is quite different as well. It actually depends on where you come from.

He however stressed on the fact that there are more cricketers in Bangladesh than say, in Australia and that creates the big problem: few coaches, more players.

"In Australia, there are 500,000 people who play cricket but only around 500 who are living on it -- that is professionally. Here, it is quite diverse in this regard as there are more professional players. It is pretty much a community effort in my country but here it is club-based, divisional, etc," said the top CA official.

Among the current group of coaches who are participating in Level Two, former national player Manjurul Islam has caught the Australians' eye.

"He is quite enthusiastic and looks to have a penchant for learning as well as giving it back," said Turner about the left-arm paceman who is active in domestic cricket.

But it was quite baffling to see some of the coaches missing because, it was learned, they opted out. But all of the current and former players, who were called up, were in attendance. The mentors' programme will begin on June 17.

Turner said that it would be difficult to coach the young players if one doesn't have a playing background. But at the same time, he drew the example of Australia's John Buchanan who was highly successful even though he had little game experience.

Turner acknowledged that educating the schools is the key to develop cricket but he feels that to facilitate this system, it will take some time because Bangladesh are competing against countries who have 150 years of cricket history.

http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/06/15/d70615040231.htm

Sohel
June 15, 2007, 03:45 AM
excellent thread to open ammark ... thanks bro. to be fair, many of us, including you, DO post threads and comments about our cricket infrastructure.

anyway, we definitely need more trained local coaches and state of the art facilities. i think with the traditional scopes of corruption and brigandage severely mitigated at the moment within the currently "non-political" BCB management, firmly under the scrutiny of perhaps more righteous men and women higher up in the CTG, we'll see some positive steps taken sooner rather than later. maybe it's time to be realistic about the highly dubious "future" of bangladeshi football, and give the BNS back to cricket. reallocating some of the funds from the somewhat aptly called "b-league" would help too.

as for myself, the Tigers training camp should not impact the development of our infrastructure the way it has, and i hope that steps are taken so that it cannot again happen in the future.

ammark
June 15, 2007, 04:03 AM
excellent thread to open ammark ... thanks bro. to be fair, many of us, including you, DO post threads and comments about our cricket infrastructure.

We do, but just surprised no one took the initiative to post and discuss this earlier... its been 15 hours since it was published... and when I checked the first page of the sub-forum, the only infrastructure related thread was Miraz Bhai's "Cricket at Crossroads thread". The rest of the threads were essentially dealing with the national team or irrelevant news more apt in International Cricket or Forget Cricket. Secondly, not to sound elitist but, I noticed that at this moment all visible members online right now are the ones who are serious posters with an argument or two to raise.

Thus thanks for the comment (which is quite becoming of you): as for myself, the Tigers training camp should not impact the development of our infrastructure the way it has, and i hope that steps are taken so that it cannot again happen in the future.

Miraz
June 15, 2007, 04:10 AM
Good thread.

ammark, first clarification.

Shaun Willimas was in charge of the Bangladesh A team and not in charge of Academy. Alister de Winter was the Academy head coach (he resigned recently) and BCB is yet to fill the vacancy.Shaun never conducted any coaching program but assisted in one previous program conducted by Cricket Australia.

I don't understand why BCB is conducting the program at Mirpur, it should be in Fatullah. To me, national camp should be given the highest priority and BCB is right in this case but they messed around by choosing the same venue for coaches training program.

According to recent deal with CA, they will conduct a number of level 2 coaches program and a couple of courses to develop umpiring standard.

IMO, the lack space is due to poor planning which could have been avoided. There is nothing wrong in involving Shaun in the national duty as there is no A team schedule in coming months and FC players have just finished a season.

observer
June 15, 2007, 04:33 AM
Gents,

It might be worth checking the source of those figures quoting US$440000 or US$500000+ for running this course or courses. The arrangement with Cricket Australia has been ongoing for a number of years now, I would estimate around 7 years and is continuing for a while yet.

ammark
June 15, 2007, 04:35 AM
Thanks Miraz bhai for correcting me.

And.. Welcome back Observer!! We're curious to know something from you, would you please let us know???? Or is it still confidential? :D

About the $500,000 figure.... afaik the whole contract is worth that much, not just the coaching development. I think some other members here may be able to enlighten us/me about the true figures here.

Sohel
June 15, 2007, 04:40 AM
Gents,

It might be worth checking the source of those figures quoting US$440000 or US$500000+ for running this course or courses. The arrangement with Cricket Australia has been ongoing for a number of years now, I would estimate around 7 years and is continuing for a while yet.

WE.WANT.YOU.

Miraz
June 15, 2007, 04:44 AM
Gents,

It might be worth checking the source of those figures quoting US$440000 or US$500000+ for running this course or courses. The arrangement with Cricket Australia has been ongoing for a number of years now, I would estimate around 7 years and is continuing for a while yet.

Yap, you are spot on.

The arrangement with CA was a goodwill gesture from Cricket Australia for the last six years.

It's now a more professional deal with some money involved, probably one of the best way to spend some money to raise the standard of the game.

And yes, we want you back, in whatever capacity possible. :)

WarWolf
June 15, 2007, 05:22 AM
Gents,

It might be worth checking the source of those figures quoting US$440000 or US$500000+ for running this course or courses. The arrangement with Cricket Australia has been ongoing for a number of years now, I would estimate around 7 years and is continuing for a while yet.

It's nice to see you again my friend. When will we see you in BD again?

observer
June 15, 2007, 05:48 AM
The BCB are still working through the process of appointing a coach as you are well aware. I am still interested in working with the team and so i cant really comment any further at this point in time. It is a time consuming process but obviously they wish to ensure they get the right person.

Miraz
June 15, 2007, 05:52 AM
The BCB are still working through the process of appointing a coach as you are well aware. I am still interested in working with the team and so i cant really comment any further at this point in time. It is a time consuming process but obviously they wish to ensure they get the right person.

Richard, good to know that you are still interested.

Any comment on the current change of scenarios in Bangladesh cricket?

Ashraful as captain, Bashar and Sharira Nafess sacked. Match fee for the FC matches and finally the prospect of Bangladesh in Sri Lanka. :)

MohammedC
June 15, 2007, 06:58 AM
The BCB are still working through the process of appointing a coach as you are well aware. I am still interested in working with the team and so i cant really comment any further at this point in time. It is a time consuming process but obviously they wish to ensure they get the right person.

Thanks Coach

Tigers_eye
June 15, 2007, 09:12 AM
Miraz bhai,
May be a PM would be better instead of putting him on the spot on the touchy issues. Just my thought.

We had nothing. We are having something. In the future it will be much better. As long as transparency exist.

israr
June 15, 2007, 09:33 AM
A personal thanks to you Richards, for all the commendable endeavours you've put in with our under-19 players:applause: . Once again, a very cordial welcome to you in banglacricket.:)

Shafin
June 15, 2007, 09:39 AM
Gents,

It might be worth checking the source of those figures quoting US$440000 or US$500000+ for running this course or courses. The arrangement with Cricket Australia has been ongoing for a number of years now, I would estimate around 7 years and is continuing for a while yet.
We are waiting to welcome you back.:)

Hatebreed
June 15, 2007, 09:46 AM
Richard, it's always nice to have your input and know that you are interested in the prospect of national coach. I certainly think you are a capable man for the job, and hope that BCB can also come to the same conclusion.

Kabir
June 15, 2007, 09:47 AM
The BCB are still working through the process of appointing a coach as you are well aware. I am still interested in working with the team and so i cant really comment any further at this point in time. It is a time consuming process but obviously they wish to ensure they get the right person.

Coach,

I think you just gave a few thousand people a sigh of relief here.

Keep visiting. We miss your presence here :)

Ahmed_B
June 15, 2007, 09:53 AM
Good thread Ammark. Just to let you know... atleast some of us share the same frustration like you expressed in the thread-opener post. I have to admit that most of us BD fans are more interested in the glamour of cricket rather than the hard and painstaking work that takes to build a stable performing team. We are often more interested in instant results than pateint approaches. Maybe its because of the average age of our cricket fans... or maybe because of BD being a very new Test Cricket Nation.. I am not sure.

But the truth is... most of us BD fans are more focussed on 'outcome' than the 'process'. Cricketers in our country are still treated as Ducks who are supposed to lay golden eggs. Sometimes we even demand that a 'potential duck' (an underaged potential cricketer) be slaughtered (by bringing him into international circuit pre-maturely) to obtain the golden eggs way before time. So many of our fans will still suggest that they will prefer Ash's 68 of 42 balls over his possible 300 ball double-ton any day! That, in the end, merely shows how far we still got to go as Fans ... not just as a Cricket nation.

All I know is.. there is a proverb in Bangla [বাংলা]"তাল গাছের আড়াই হাত"[/বাংলা]...which is used to indicate the last few steps towards any sort of excellence. This rural saying means that it is far easier to climb up almost to the top of a "Tal Gachh" but it is far more tougher to climb up the last [বাংলা]আড়াই হাত[/বাংলা] and get to the top because that particular part of the [বাংলা]তাল গাছ[/বাংলা] is actually very slippery. Bangladesh team will soon realize how this last Arai Hat actually tastes like... and I think so will the fans.... unless we take a very good look at out basic cricket structure and start working very very hard on it.

Hatebreed
June 15, 2007, 10:09 AM
Going back the original topic, it seems the infrastructure for these coach trainings are inadequate or below-par. I'm not aware of the details as to what is specifically required. This might be a clear case of ignorance rather than negligence, because BCB simply might not be fully informed. So it's imperative that they address the requirements with Cricket Australia prior to making arrangements for any long-term training programmes to properly take place.

Tigers_eye
June 15, 2007, 10:15 AM
Ahmed_B's post need to be framed and permanently put on the front page. As one of the top posters of this site I demand this. This is a threat, a humble request. Which ever way you choose to see it.

One World
June 15, 2007, 10:16 AM
Good thread Ammark. Just to let you know... atleast some of us share the same frustration like you expressed in the thread-opener post. I have to admit that most of us BD fans are more interested in the glamour of cricket rather than the hard and painstaking work that takes to build a stable performing team. We are often more interested in instant results than pateint approaches. Maybe its because of the average age of our cricket fans... or maybe because of BD being a very new Test Cricket Nation.. I am not sure.

But the truth is... most of us BD fans are more focussed on 'outcome' than the 'process'. Cricketers in our country are still treated as Ducks who are supposed to lay golden eggs. Sometimes we even demand that a 'potential duck' (an underaged potential cricketer) be slaughtered (by bringing him into international circuit pre-maturely) to obtain the golden eggs way before time. So many of our fans will still suggest that they will prefer Ash's 68 of 42 balls over his possible 300 ball double-ton any day! That, in the end, merely shows how far we still got to go as Fans ... not just as a Cricket nation.

All I know is.. there is a proverb in Bangla [বাংলা]"তাল গাছের আড়াই হাত"[/বাংলা]...which is used to indicate the last few steps towards any sort of excellence. This rural saying means that it is far easier to climb up almost to the top of a "Tal Gachh" but it is far more tougher to climb up the last [বাংলা]আড়াই হাত[/বাংলা] and get to the top because that particular part of the [বাংলা]তাল গাছ[/বাংলা] is actually very slippery. Bangladesh team will soon realize how this last Arai Hat actually tastes like... and I think so will the fans.... unless we take a very good look at out basic cricket structure and start working very very hard on it.

Points to ponder. Best write up ever. I contribute my 1000th post to thee.

Miraz
June 15, 2007, 11:50 AM
Miraz bhai,
May be a PM would be better instead of putting him on the spot on the touchy issues. Just my thought.

We had nothing. We are having something. In the future it will be much better. As long as transparency exist.

Well, I'm already in touch through PM. Just wanted to hear something for the forum members.

FagunerAgun
June 15, 2007, 12:39 PM
Nice thread, good posts. Thanks.

Hopefully BCB will wake up with some good planning and strategies for the future of our cricket development and not waste our cricket money.

gatekeeper
June 15, 2007, 12:42 PM
The BCB are still working through the process of appointing a coach as you are well aware. I am still interested in working with the team and so i cant really comment any further at this point in time. It is a time consuming process but obviously they wish to ensure they get the right person.

What can we do to make them realize who right person is? There are plenty here who'll beat'em over the head for you.:waiting:

IanW
June 15, 2007, 01:02 PM
Miraz bhai,
May be a PM would be better instead of putting him on the spot on the touchy issues. Just my thought.

We had nothing. We are having something. In the future it will be much better. As long as transparency exist.

He's a professional, and gave a very professional non-answer.

Ahmed_B
June 15, 2007, 01:15 PM
I contribute my 1000th post to thee.
Flattered! :)

BTW... its nice to see MacInnes back and posting again.

Rubu
June 15, 2007, 04:20 PM
Hi Rechard, good to see you posting again.

We wish to see you here when you are in charge of our team (I really wish that will happen soon).

AsifTheManRahman
June 15, 2007, 06:19 PM
hey, thanks for the heads up, coach! :)

The BCB are still working through the process of appointing a coach as you are well aware. I am still interested in working with the team and so i cant really comment any further at this point in time. It is a time consuming process but obviously they wish to ensure they get the right person.

Ahmed_B
June 17, 2007, 01:23 PM
Just felt like quoting this posrt of OZGOD from this thread (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=20872) since we are talking about our cricket structure and this post says a lot about Aussi cricket chains:

The reason for Australia's long term success is because we have a system in place which ensures that the best cricketers get the best preparation, both in first class cricket and even earlier, to ensure that they are physically, mentally and technically ready to compete in international matches.

It's not just about talent - it's about identifying talent early, nurturing it, training it both mentally and physically, then picking the best of these into the OZ XI. It's about being really professional in how you manage the sport.

We only have a small population (20million) and many sports - cricket has to fight for its share of young kids, who get split up between cricket, rugby, league, Aussie Rules, tennis, swimming, football, etc. We don't have a huge pool to choose from like India or Pakistan, so we have to make sure that the ones we do choose are well-prepared.

The thing about the OZ success is that it is not purely down to talent or skill - it's down to attitude, professionalism and a lot of hard work to try to keep improving. Look at the u-19 and u-21 competitions - the OZ don't dominate there to the extent that we do in full-fledged Tests or ODIs. At u-19 and u-21 level we're about even with India, Pakistan, SA or any of the other teams. But when our players move from the ages of 19 to about 23 or 24, they improve at a much faster rate than their counterparts, because they play in a cut-throat district, grade and domestic competition which weeds out the also-rans from the really-good prospects. Then this "cream of the crop" usually has to mark time in the Pura Cup (our FC competition) to make sure that they are mentally and physically prepared to play in high-pressure matches. Then the best of these are cherry-picked to play in the Test side. That's why OZ can pick players out of domestic cricket that nobody else has heard of (e.g. Bracken, Hussey, Clark, Tait, etc) and they slot into the OZ side fully prepared and able to cope with the pressure of international cricket. As an example, before he made his OZ debut, Hussey had scored over 15000 runs and had 35 first class centuries - so by the time he played for the Baggy Greens had already had heaps of experience.

It's very rare for the OZ to pick a young bloke to play for our team if he hasn't played first class cricket in OZ yet - Clarke had to wait, Tait had to wait, and even now there are a lot of exciting young blokes in OZ (Cullen Bailey, Adam Voges, Chris Rogers, Ben Hilfenhaus) who just have to bide their time and continue to hone their skills in the Pura Cup.

Because we have a well-organised structure, it turns into a competitive advantage for us - we don't have to rely on finding the "one-in-a-million" players, the Shane Warnes or the Adam Gilchrists. They're the icing on the cake - but the fundamental base is built from the likes of the Pontings, Haydens, Martyns, McGraths, Brackens, Husseys, etc.

The good news is that it's not impossible to adopt this system - all you need is a visionary leader who can mobilise different elements of your cricket infrastructure and work towards improving it and making it more cohesive:

For the infrastructure
1. get the right set of administrators in place
2. work on improving coaching standards at FC, district and schoolboy level
3. set up a talent identification and management process
4. work to improve the first class domestic competition - make it more competitive and try to make sure that there are pressure matches so that players can get used to playing under pressure
5. make sure you have a succession plan in place. Players are like inventory - they age and need to be replaced. There should always be at least one or two players being "groomed" for each position, should a player retire or lose form.

For the team:
1. get the right coaching staff in place to support the team
2. have a strong leader who can "own" the team and leave his stamp on it
3. ensure that when deficiencies in players are noticed (either mental or technical) that someone works with them to eliminate these. No point dropping a player because he keeps walking across his stumps but then not working with him to fix it, because he will never improve.
4. Work hard on things like athleticism and fitness, so that things like fielding and running between the wickets improve. This is unglamourous but often is the difference between winning and losing.

I guess to summarise, what I'm saying is that all the above can be replicated, as long as someone has the critical mass and vision to implement it. The catalyst for OZ cricket to restructure itself was when we had the mass retirements of Lillee, Chappell and Marsh in the 1980s and our team basically ended up getting hammered by the WI for years. Cricket Australia recognised that we couldn't be in a situation where we were relying on "blind luck" of having talented players coming through - we had to work to make sure that whatever talent we had, that we improved it and made sure it was as prepared as possible. Look at the WI - no system in place, so when the talent dried up they've plummeted from No1 to No8 or 9 in the world.

Talent always helps - and we're lucky to have such a strong cricket culture that we're always unearthing talented players like Tait, Clarke, Symonds, etc - but having a system in place will help build competitiveness when the talent's not always there, and will build on existing talent as well. :)

My 2c (geez that was a bit long).

tas
June 21, 2007, 06:19 AM
Its all well and good to say "duplicate the Aussie system", but what we have to realise is that Bangladesh does not have the resources, nor in the infrastructure to support such a blooming system.

E.g. The Sydney grade comp (level below 1st class cricket) has 50 matches around Sydney spanning 5 grades every Saturday during the season. There aren't even 50 grounds up to Sydney grade standard in the whole of Bangladesh. Ofcourse in
Sydney there hundreds more grounds (for Shires cricket, community cricket, local cricket, social cricket, school cricket etc.)

You simply can't "duplicate" the Aussie system as they are trying to do now. The key for Bangladesh is to implement a strategy that works for them. If it is based on the Aussie system, then so be it, if it is based on the Sri Lankan or English systems then fine.

Whilst the Aussie FC system is clearly the best and most efficient system in the world, it is allowed to be by the resources (most importantly thousands of cricket grounds) and the economy that supports it. Bangladesh simply can't match those facets of the Aussie FC system. And money is no substitute for these factors on the BCBs part.

FWIW, IMO Bangladesh is doing the right thing by using Australian influences and resources, such as skills coaches and umpire coaches etc. And the Aussie FC system is the best system to use as a model, but we can not simply copy it, we have to mould it to fit Bangladesh, or the system will struggle.

It Layman's Terms, we dont have the space!!!