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syzygy
June 18, 2007, 09:35 AM
well i just thought that bd should play more test matches against zim / ire / ken . i am not sure if ire / ken are allowed to play tests or not but there should be some special provision that allows these four countries to play with each other more often in tests and that will boost their confidence before they take on the top 8 (or 7?)*. i guess getting hammered in tests wont improve their confidence and demoralize the side and which is not good for the game.as a reward the winner of the four should play a test championship with the best in the world. i.e. aussies.

*P.S. I think windies should also be added to that list of 4, as they are really down in confidence and with lara's exit the team look in shambles (practically they are the worst in top 8 now).i think bd has good chance of overtaking windies in the near future - may be 2 yrs. what you all think?

sadi
June 18, 2007, 10:13 AM
And maybe we can also add India to that list after they lose badly against England and whoever they play next.

Tigers_eye
June 18, 2007, 10:17 AM
I wonder what an Aussie fan would say? We (aussie fan) don't want to play against anyone cause they are not up to our standards. We (Australia) will play against our B team and C team. Only they can resist us or throw a challenge to us. What logic!!

Trigger_Tiger
June 18, 2007, 10:18 AM
Zimbabwe (if they are given the tag back), after which they should invite South Africa to Bangladesh (oh the spin friendly tracks :-p) and then the West Indies, after which they can invite England over as well. After they are done with the above mentioned four teams, they should invite India.

A gradual step towards getting the winning habit going :up:.....:flag:!!!!!

Trigger_Tiger
June 18, 2007, 10:20 AM
I wonder what an Aussie fan would say? We don't want to play against anyone cause they are not up to our standards. We will play against our B team and C team. Only they can resist us or throw a challenge to us. What logic!!

I don't think so! Even though their A, C, or even their C team can easily qualify for the national level, their national team would still probably defeat the other 3 with some ease :).

Padosan
June 18, 2007, 10:26 AM
syzygy, you make a good point.

Actually playing more test matches with these teams will definitely give BD a lots of confidence and couple of big performances under the players belts will give them a lot to hope for.

when winning and scoring big becomes a habit, then BD will be much more confident in taking the bigger teams. I surely want to see BD beating a couple of teams in test matches and not getting humiliated by the bigger names in cricket.

and as for the other poster, may be a bad weekend of cricket i guess :). bashing India on every opportunity you get to bash is not going to take you anywhere. with all due respects, India is wayyyyy ahead of BD in test matches.

cheers !
Padosan

Miraz
June 18, 2007, 10:44 AM
One drawn Test (in which Bangladesh had the possibility to win and was definitely equal team if not better) and one win (with some good help from the dubious Toss decision) and Indian posters are flying high. Already started to suggest Bangladesh should play Tests more often to countries who do not even Test status.

Arrogance to say the least. I don't see any point of this thread and except some crude attempt to do a mockery about Bangladesh's Test status.

IMO, this type of thread should not be encouraged at BC.

sadi
June 18, 2007, 10:48 AM
and as for the other poster, may be a bad weekend of cricket i guess :). bashing India on every opportunity you get to bash is not going to take you anywhere. with all due respects, India is wayyyyy ahead of BD in test matches.


True. But I guess you missed the point. Just because a team is way ahead of another team doesn't mean the other team shouldn't be in the same league and play Kenya or Namibia in the test matches. So the point is if teams like Australia, South Africa or even Srilanka who are wayyyyyyy ahead of India in test matches right now say the same thing, will you listen to their argument? Most likely no.

SMHasan
June 18, 2007, 10:50 AM
I noticed that the quality of the threads have gone down in BC. This thread starter does not even know whether Kenya or Ireland play at the test level. Any comment necessary on his cricket knowledge?

We have not played that much test cricekt in last one year but the last time we played a test match we nearly beat Australia. Never forget that.

Padosan
June 18, 2007, 10:51 AM
Arrogance Miraz ? I thought syzygy was BD, also i just wanted to reply to sadi for his attitude towards India.

Well if any part of my post gave you that I am mocking BD's test status, you should go back and read my posts on BC. Eitherways, I am posting in a BD forum and shld know my limits, being a foreigner, esp a "Indian", one of the most hated "creatures"

cheers !

bd_fan_from_india
June 18, 2007, 10:51 AM
And maybe we can also add India to that list after they lose badly against England and whoever they play next.

that is not a very good thing to say. looks like u dont know anything about india and just want to bash ind at every opportunity. i am not going to get any more into this as it can lead into a fight

Miraz
June 18, 2007, 10:53 AM
Padosan
My post was about the thread and the thread opener. Not intended to you.
syzgy is from India.

SS
June 18, 2007, 10:53 AM
I see the lingering unforgettable frustration of the thread openner which started from the WC.

sadi
June 18, 2007, 10:59 AM
that is not a very good thing to say. looks like u dont know anything about india and just want to bash ind at every opportunity. i am not going to get any more into this as it can lead into a fight

I know its not a good thing to say. It doesn't even make sense from cricketing point of view but thats not the point. If a poster who doesn't even know whether Ireland and Kenya has the test status ask to demote us to the second tier, you would feel the same outrage. Specially when Bangladesh hasn't played test matches for more than a year and then come back and play well enough to make a good fight in the first test match.

Padosan
June 18, 2007, 11:03 AM
Sadi, hang on a sec. First of all, right now, Aus/SA and srilanka are not wayyyyyyyyy ahead of India in tests. well, can you buy that point, NO. what was the last series played against these countries and what are the results ??

And i am not against BD playing cricket at this level. I wouldnt even be posting here, if i dont follow BD cricket . not many were there to give a word back to me when i write up the positives and my likes of the BD team, when i criticized India on their performance. But when i write something on a +ve outlook, ppl pounce on me just b'coz i am an "Indian".

I am just here for my love of this game and love for the upcoming cricket team. Since i follow BD as my second fav team, i posted what i felt.

Ehsan
June 18, 2007, 11:04 AM
Rule of thumb for this thread: Do not turn this thread into a BD-India bashing thread.

Padosan
June 18, 2007, 11:04 AM
Padosan
My post was about the thread and the thread opener. Not intended to you.
syzgy is from India.

thanks Miraz, for the clarification.

bd_fan_from_india
June 18, 2007, 11:05 AM
I know its not a good thing to say. It doesn't even make sense from cricketing point of view but thats not the point. If a poster who doesn't even know whether Ireland and Kenya has the test status ask to demote us to the second tier, you would feel the same outrage. Specially when Bangladesh hasn't played test matches for more than a year and then come back and play well enough to make a good fight in the first test match.

looking at that comments, syzygy looks like being an indian. he could have atleast mentioned windies also. as of now, bangladeshs best chance of getting a test win is to play against windies in bd looking at the mess their cricket is in or maybe play against england in bd knowing their weakness against spin. however, bd can play against ireland/kenya if they get test status(which they should).

i know how painful it is for bd fans if 2nd-tier demotion is still talked about after the remarkable 2007 wc performance. maybe winning a test-match can shut that up

Beamer
June 18, 2007, 11:09 AM
Breaking News : ICC just announced West Bengal and Assam as the 13th and 14th test playing nation. Bangladesh Cricket Board has just invited the newly coronated entrants to play their inaugural test matches this winter prior to visiting New Zealand in a show of support.

Ehsan
June 18, 2007, 11:10 AM
Syzgy,

If you truly cared about our team then you could have put your words in different way to not make it sound a little offensive to the BD fans. I am not quite sure if your intention was to bash BD. I will give you the benefit of doubt this time, next time I see any similar thread from you then it will be deleted without notice.

If you care about BD team then you surely can learn a thing or two from Padosan and DJ.

Tigers_eye
June 18, 2007, 11:14 AM
Syzygy,
We can't play test against Kenya and Zimbabwe cause they don't play test. As for building confidence in test arena there is no other option but to play the stronger nations. We would get hammered (overseas) but there is no other option. That is the learning process. Instead of cutting off the opportunity to learn the longer version of the game stronger countries need to give us opportunity to play more not less.

At home it is a different story. The freshly Indian series result is not the indication of our standard. We all know that. Look at the one before that against Australia.

sadi
June 18, 2007, 11:36 AM
Sadi, hang on a sec. First of all, right now, Aus/SA and srilanka are not wayyyyyyyyy ahead of India in tests. well, can you buy that point, NO. what was the last series played against these countries and what are the results ??

And i am not against BD playing cricket at this level. I wouldnt even be posting here, if i dont follow BD cricket . not many were there to give a word back to me when i write up the positives and my likes of the BD team, when i criticized India on their performance. But when i write something on a +ve outlook, ppl pounce on me just b'coz i am an "Indian".

I am just here for my love of this game and love for the upcoming cricket team. Since i follow BD as my second fav team, i posted what i felt.

I know you have been a regular poster here and have written many positive things about our cricket. Nothing personal against you Padosan. However, just like you are not ready to accept the fact that India is way behind Australia or South Africa at this time, I am not ready to accept that Bangladesh needs to play teams like Kenya to build their confidence. Last time we played Australia, we almost won the game. Last time we played India, we could have won the game if we had gone for the win. I don't want to make it another Bangldesh-India thread, so lets just stop there. Thanks.

syzygy
June 18, 2007, 11:44 AM
well there was no arrogance here to start with.yea i know ken / zim /ire dont play tests, so it was just an indirect suggestion or wishful thinking so that perhaps icc include them as test playing nations. there is no harm in bd winning a few test matches, their batsmen scoring a few centuries and getting some confidence back bfr challenging stronger teams.btw i dont look at this is as second or third tier. i believe bd played an awful amount of odis against teams like zim / ken etc bfr wc and by winning them consistently it gave a boost to their confidence. this proposal was also on that same line, nothing offensive i could see here. i guess nobody complained then, now perhaps it is hurting ur egos. and btw i did nt mention india in my post, so no need to drag it here.anyway if it seemed offensive to most of u, i would request the mods to close/delete this thread as no point in continuing the conversation.

al Furqaan
June 18, 2007, 11:50 AM
ok skizzy gizzy,

bangladesh doesn't deserve tests, we should play with burkina faso and san marino so we can build up confidence rather than get thrashed by 7 innings and 500 runs to a 12th string hungarian team inside 15 minutes.

happy?

Murad
June 18, 2007, 11:59 AM
MODs..

i think this thread should be closed.. else it will be another india-bd fighting thread in few hours....

akabir77
June 18, 2007, 12:04 PM
funny part is the thread opener doesn't know whether these teams plays test or not but he is not bothered before putting his Big knowledge about test and what he thinks might help BD in TEST...
Please upgrade your knowledge on TEST cricket first before prescribing any medicine for it...ONE DAY games and TEST is not the same thing and will not improve the same way.

Fahmid
June 18, 2007, 12:27 PM
The only way BD can go forward is by playing teams like Zimbabwe, Westindies and A sides from stronger nations to be frank and at the moment none of these teams deserve to be with elite nations. There fore I back BD to play against weaker teams and they should be set a targets on a win/lose ratio for two years and based on the performance weaker teams like BD, Windies and Zimbabwe can be promoted to elite level. There are no solution other than this....

Trigger_Tiger
June 18, 2007, 12:36 PM
ok skizzy gizzy,

bangladesh doesn't deserve tests, we should play with burkina faso and san marino so we can build up confidence rather than get thrashed by 7 innings and 500 runs to a 12th string hungarian team inside 15 minutes.

happy?

:floor: :floor: :floor: :floor: :floor:
.
.
.
.
.
/:)

Okay let's stop the fighting here now E-).

akabir77
June 18, 2007, 01:02 PM
The only way BD can go forward is by playing teams like Zimbabwe, Westindies and A sides from stronger nations to be frank and at the moment none of these teams deserve to be with elite nations. There fore I back BD to play against weaker teams and they should be set a targets on a win/lose ratio for two years and based on the performance weaker teams like BD, Windies and Zimbabwe can be promoted to elite level. There are no solution other than this....

Thank god that ICC is not run by you...

Farhad
June 18, 2007, 01:13 PM
I think we should make Fahmid the new SS. SS has lost his touch :)

sandpiper
June 18, 2007, 01:14 PM
:lol:
I think we should make Fahmid the new SS. SS has lost his touch :)

syzygy
June 18, 2007, 01:47 PM
The only way BD can go forward is by playing teams like Zimbabwe, Westindies and A sides from stronger nations to be frank and at the moment none of these teams deserve to be with elite nations. There fore I back BD to play against weaker teams and they should be set a targets on a win/lose ratio for two years and based on the performance weaker teams like BD, Windies and Zimbabwe can be promoted to elite level. There are no solution other than this....

well nice to see u have the guts to come out of ur self ego, knowing that u would be ridiculed for ur statements. and those of u asking to stop fighting, may i ask who is fighting here? at least i m not.

ammark
June 18, 2007, 01:55 PM
In reply to syzygy:

No, Bangladesh should not devote all its time to playing Ireland and Kenya to look good on paper. If we hadnt played India after 13 months, then we wouldnt have seen how blatantly players like Khaled Masud Pilot, Javed Omar Golla and Habibul Bashar's time is about to come to an end.

Test cricket for us is still a learning process, they would not have been able to see the way Tendulkar scored his century. Test cricket should above all be about quality. Only playing against quality players and teams allows our team to improve little by little on its weaknesses. Bangladesh cricket internally still lacks a domestic league that can compete with Ranji Teams consistently. The players do not play games of a higher level except when they play the established 8 teams now.

You have to take this reason into consideration... winning isnt everything for us. The stats dont show the way players like Ashraful, Mashrafe, Enam, Sakib, Rajin and Rajib approach the game. If we stayed on playing the teams at a level closer to ours, then chances are we'd dominate them at a point, stay at that level, and not be competitive at a level higher than us (ie. Ind, Pak, NZ, WI)

mali007
June 18, 2007, 02:03 PM
This is the right time to against the struggling West Indies. Even we can beat Pakistan
right now.

syzygy
June 18, 2007, 02:06 PM
atlast one reasonable post ammark. anyway i did nt say that all its time they should be playing against weaker teams but if u take the precedent of ur limited success in wc, it was due to the fact that u played against weaker teams prior to wc and were consistently winning which helped to build up ur morale and confidence. agreed , u can learn from playing stonger nations but a negative result is not always good as it can demoralize them to a great extent. at least 75% of the time they should concentrate on the weaker teams and the remaining 25% of time play against stronger nations to judge their improvement. also when playing against stronger teams they should invite them at home rather than playing away series. winning is not everything, but unless u win u will never know what it takes to win.

akabir77
June 18, 2007, 02:21 PM
atlast one reasonable post ammark. anyway i did nt say that all its time they should be playing against weaker teams but if u take the precedent of ur limited success in wc, it was due to the fact that u played against weaker teams prior to wc and were consistently winning which helped to build up ur morale and confidence. agreed , u can learn from playing stonger nations but a negative result is not always good as it can demoralize them to a great extent. at least 75% of the time they should concentrate on the weaker teams and the remaining 25% of time play against stronger nations to judge their improvement. also when playing against stronger teams they should invite them at home rather than playing away series. winning is not everything, but unless u win u will never know what it takes to win.

Listen bro what makes you think that playing those weaker team made us good for WC? may be we were ready any how and we and that's why most bd fans were ready for the India win. Well you might think other wise but i am just giving you my point of view. so regardless who BD played it didn't matter bd was ready for the big guns.
now about TEST like i said before TEST and ODI is not the same and team INDIA and NZ took 20+ years to even one test so patience, we r only into 6th years and were already very close to win twice (against pakistan which we lost because of the ump and against Australia because they r too good)...

IanW
June 18, 2007, 02:23 PM
Everybody. They will get something out of playig four- and five-day cricket against everybody.

Playing Associates will allow new young bowlers to be tested, and give batsmen the opportunity to bat for a long time (it will also allow the Associate countries to develop - and thats important, given the gulf between Associate and Test cricket).

Playing the best will allow players to test themselves against the best.

Playing the middle will give players more chances to spend time in the middle and learn Test cricket the only way it can be learned - by playing it.

Ian Whitchurch

Rifat
June 18, 2007, 02:32 PM
One drawn Test (in which Bangladesh had the possibility to win and was definitely equal team if not better) and one win (with some good help from the dubious Toss decision) and Indian posters are flying high. Already started to suggest Bangladesh should play Tests more often to countries who do not even Test status.

Arrogance to say the least. I don't see any point of this thread and except some crude attempt to do a mockery about Bangladesh's Test status.

IMO, this type of thread should not be encouraged at BC.

i agree with Miraz "bhai"(he is more of my uncle) becasue the more harder teams we play and if the same players keep playing the same game over a long period of time it will be natural to start having test victories.

syzygy
June 18, 2007, 02:35 PM
Everybody. They will get something out of playig four- and five-day cricket against everybody.

Playing Associates will allow new young bowlers to be tested, and give batsmen the opportunity to bat for a long time (it will also allow the Associate countries to develop - and thats important, given the gulf between Associate and Test cricket).

Playing the best will allow players to test themselves against the best.

Playing the middle will give players more chances to spend time in the middle and learn Test cricket the only way it can be learned - by playing it.

Ian Whitchurch

agreed they should play with everybody, i m never against that but they should play more with associates (75:25). playing against asoociates will build their confidence and test new players while playing against the elite would test their improvement.i could nt qite understand what was so arrogant or offensive abt it.

tonoy
June 18, 2007, 02:39 PM
I dont see what the big deal is. Is it me or are some of you really touchy and find almost everything offensive from outsiders? playing test cricket with associates isnt that bad of an idea(even though its not really possible). I mean look back at 2006 and pre world cup, where we only challenged nations relatively less skilled and experienced than us, and we won. The player's confidence grew so much from it, that they performed exceedingly well against good opposition also. We must also realize that we are one of the weaklings still( sad but true). I love Ian W's comment.

ANd I still cant figure out why is there always a debate about India vs bangladesh. For once, can we just leave it alone? I think we BD members must not be too sensitive about this. I now see more of Bd members who are over aggressive and start attacking(verbally of course) at any indian members who try to share their opinion. Learn to take criticism guys. Its a part of life, so lets quit it and leave them alone.

IanW
June 18, 2007, 02:48 PM
agreed they should play with everybody, i m never against that but they should play more with associates (75:25). playing against asoociates will build their confidence and test new players while playing against the elite would test their improvement.i could nt qite understand what was so arrogant or offensive abt it.

But I dont think the Tigers are a crap team that needs to spend all their time beating up minnows to get their self-esteem up(*). I think that they are in the big mess of teams that arent as good as Australia.

Yes, they should do tours against Associates. But most of their time should be spent playing teams like India, Sri Lanka and New Zealand.

Which is what they appear to be doing.

Ian Whitchurch

(*) And for the record, I think that getting in the practice of winning against Zimbabwe and Scotland certainly helped the World Cup preperation, as did turning up early and getting practice in the local conditions. India and Pakistan were both lazy, and they paid for it.

istiak
June 18, 2007, 03:00 PM
i am not sure if ire / ken are allowed to play tests

Either you need to learn more to join BC or these teams will qualify for test match after indian relegation from test status.......

:-D

ammark
June 18, 2007, 03:01 PM
atlast one reasonable post ammark. anyway i did nt say that all its time they should be playing against weaker teams but if u take the precedent of ur limited success in wc, it was due to the fact that u played against weaker teams prior to wc and were consistently winning which helped to build up ur morale and confidence. agreed , u can learn from playing stonger nations but a negative result is not always good as it can demoralize them to a great extent. at least 75% of the time they should concentrate on the weaker teams and the remaining 25% of time play against stronger nations to judge their improvement. also when playing against stronger teams they should invite them at home rather than playing away series. winning is not everything, but unless u win u will never know what it takes to win.

Even so, my approach is because I am particularly looking forward to the youngsters and the youth playing for Bangladesh. Players like Aftab, Tamim, Sakib, Mushi, Ashraful, SN, Mashrafe, Rajib, Raj and Enam are the future. They have a completely different attitude to JO, Bashar, Pilot who are the stalwarts of our test team since God knows when.

I'm going to digress a bit here, but it is extremely frustrating to see these 3 hog up valuable spots in a team of 11 sometimes, and deprive the youngsters from fighting it out versus the best and learning from it. These boys ARE confident and sure of themselves... or are more capable of changing their attitude, unlike the older 3. Even if BD loses, when these youngsters play, they dont lose out on learning opportunities and experience.

I know there are many Tamim-&-Aftab bashers, but they ARE the future, and just because of some people's pre-conceptions on their One-Day pinch-hitting roles they are not taken in test matches. Face it, these guys have the talent and athleticism to play in test matches and at least LEARN to play long innings in more demanding situations. Unleashing them to lesser opponents really doesnt help them take on responsibility or become versatile. (and btw, Aftab IS versatile).

Going back to your suggestion of relegating BD to teams that may be closer to our level, you have to understand that putting a ratio of 1:3 games vs the top teams is a very condescending and insulting idea. In practice thats what we did from April 2006-March 2007. Worse, we didnt even play any 5 day matches there. And yet, it was the new players... the youngsters lifted us up in the World Cup. It didnt make much of a difference that BD had been creaming Kenya and Zim prior to that. It was the attitude and versatility we saw in Tamim Sakib and Mushi that got us ahead.

What you are saying is that these kids should give up playing it out versus the best, and go back to playing "other minnows" ...like in 1996 when we played Associates to "Earn" the right to play 3 matches in the Asia Cup. This is hardly conducive to BD improving their level. We can pick up the deficiencies of Bashar, JO and Pilot when we play the teams better than us that much more easily and understand what needs to change. For example watch a Netherlands vs Scotland ODI... and even though the match may be close, you'll be able to pick out plenty of things that are wrong about the match; ie. the bowling - where the bowler is pitching, how he's varying the pace, what deliveries the batsmen are playing, quality of fielding, shot selection, rotation of strike. BD's player will generally be bullying this in their present form, and the people we'd be relying on to fight the better teams afterwards will be those who perform well vs these lesser teams... (likely to be Bashar, Golla and Pilot). This runs counter to identifying our deficiencies faster.

Bangladesh has full test status now, like it or not. And its a credit to the structure in BD producing players of much better talent and quality. According to the ICC, there is a Future Tours Program, and that has fixed BD to play each and every team for usually 2 test matches each. Maybe its a waste of time for Aus and SL, but it isnt for us. Our next generation of cricketers are capable of beating almost all of them, but for that they need to play the best and improve their weaknesses instead of bullying more-mediocre bowling and batting.

bharat
June 18, 2007, 03:17 PM
The only sucess that the ICC has had in years is the success story of BD cricket.

They have blossemed in double quick time and have no reason to play non-test cricketing test teams.They are as obliged as India or any other test country to play non-test teams.Yes, sending an A team to Ireland or such will help them to acclmatize to the conditions in there ...but it is true for any country.

BD are a whiff away from a Test victory, not long ago SL used to struggle to muster a test win and now they are arguable the defacto 2-3 rd best ODI and 3-4 best Test team.

betaar
June 18, 2007, 03:23 PM
I really don’t think the thread opener’s idea should’ve been bashed the way it has been by all of us BD <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/ /><st1:place w:st=<st1:City w:st=" /><st1:State w:st="on">BC</st1:State> members. Though I am against this notion, because it hurts my ego, yes we are all human and (even when justified) we don’t like to be demoted in any aspect of our lives, and it also rules out our chance of playing stronger test teams and learn to be competitive.

Bangladesh should play tests against the stronger teams as well as play 4 day matches against the weaker teams (the associates, especially when we don’t have any test series lined up). It’s not only gives us the taste of winning some games in the longer version but will also get us mentally ready on how to bat for longer periods without loosing patience. If we analyze the way our batters get out in tests, we will see almost all cases they get themselves out. Just look at the bowling attack that <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> had in the recent series; you would not find any mediocre pace bowling attack currently, but what was disgusting was the way our batsmen got them selves out. So replacing those mediocre Indian bowlers with bowlers from <st1:country-region w:st="on">Kenya</st1:country-region> or <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">Ireland</st1:country-region></st1:place> may not make any difference in the way our self destructive batsmen bat. So I would be really interested to see how well they cope with the bowling of the associates in the longer version of the game.

I am sure you guys know that many commentators (who are ex-players, some of them with enough cricketing knowledge) during the recently concluded world cup and our own Dav Whatmore pointed out that one of the reasons that may have helped us in building for the World Cup was the winning habit or momentum gained by beating the weaker teams in the one-dayers that we played over the last few months. Of course there’s no proven method or formula that it was the case, but when the trend is for everyone to see, we cannot just say the same would not happen in the longer version.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/ /><o:p></o:p>
<font face=" /><o:p></o:p>
<FONT face=Verdana><o:p></o:p>
<FONT face=Verdana><st1:country-region w:st="<st1:place" Arial?><o:p></o:p>
<FONT face=Verdana>So, I’d say this school of thought cannot be totally rejected on the basis of ego. Instead, we should try this approach paralleled to the other ongoing methods we are following to improve our test cricket skills. <FONT face=Arial><o:p></o:p>
</st1:country-region>

damalChele
June 18, 2007, 03:36 PM
I think India should play more Test matches wih BD till 2011 WC. Why? We kicked them where it hurts the most. (where sun never shines, well metaphorically). No doubt they are far better side than us on paper and we will probably lose most of the matches anyway. It's a chance for them to get some sort of closure if you like and obviously to boost their confidence.

Trigger_Tiger
June 18, 2007, 03:50 PM
The only sucess that the ICC has had in years is the success story of BD cricket.

They have blossemed in double quick time and have no reason to play non-test cricketing test teams.They are as obliged as India or any other test country to play non-test teams.Yes, sending an A team to Ireland or such will help them to acclmatize to the conditions in there ...but it is true for any country.

BD are a whiff away from a Test victory, not long ago SL used to struggle to muster a test win and now they are arguable the defacto 2-3 rd best ODI and 3-4 best Test team.

I couldn't agree any less with you!

Instead of having this team undergo a few tours with foriegn A sides, why not just have our A team play it out with the smaller of the BIG 10-11? 4 day games of course!
That way not only will it help us get acclimatized to the longer version of the game but also at the same time help Zim/Ken/Ire to grow in stature and inch closer to that Test status!

The national team rather practice playing 4 day matches at home and maybe before a tour, they can have a warm up 4 day match with the whoever XI of the hosting nation. This does not mean that they should not play tests :rolleyes:.....what it means is that they should ask for more four day warm ups from the hosting nation.

And Syzygy, from the way everyone was writing in the thread in the beginning, it was heating up and almost seemed like a fight was about to break out. Pardon me if I called the "fight" to stop even before it had begun, but yes certainly it was not friendly exchange of words from both sides all the time :). I never knew before that, asking for peace brought on more heat :-p!

israr
June 18, 2007, 03:56 PM
Don't want to discuss cricket in a thread where its author doesn't knows the 'basic outline of international cricket'.

uss01
June 18, 2007, 04:15 PM
I dont' think big performances against keynya and zim will give much more confidence to BD players. BD players already have big performances in the Domestic National Cricket League (the 4 day league). I believe the competition there would be and is better than playing against Kenya or Zim. But unfortunately that is not converting into good performances with bigger team. So, all in all I don't think playing against Ken or Zim will hurt or help BD. So it's pretty pointless to play against them.



syzygy, you make a good point.

Actually playing more test matches with these teams will definitely give BD a lots of confidence and couple of big performances under the players belts will give them a lot to hope for.

when winning and scoring big becomes a habit, then BD will be much more confident in taking the bigger teams. I surely want to see BD beating a couple of teams in test matches and not getting humiliated by the bigger names in cricket.

and as for the other poster, may be a bad weekend of cricket i guess :). bashing India on every opportunity you get to bash is not going to take you anywhere. with all due respects, India is wayyyyy ahead of BD in test matches.

cheers !
Padosan

uss01
June 18, 2007, 04:21 PM
The taste of winning can be developped at the National Cricket League when the national team players play for their own teams. I believe that is a better standard than playing against Keyna or Zim. So no need to waste time and energy in going to and bringing Kenya and Zim, unless they're A team level teams from BD.

I believe people in this forum people are forgetting the importance of the domestic league. It can be a far more important source of good performance in the test arena than playing against Kenya or Zim.

I really don’t think the thread opener’s idea should’ve been bashed the way it has been by all of us BD <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/ /><st1:place w:st=<st1:City w:st=" /><st1:State w:st="on">BC</st1:State> members. Though I am against this notion, because it hurts my ego, yes we are all human and (even when justified) we don’t like to be demoted in any aspect of our lives, and it also rules out our chance of playing stronger test teams and learn to be competitive.

Bangladesh should play tests against the stronger teams as well as play 4 day matches against the weaker teams (the associates, especially when we don’t have any test series lined up). It’s not only gives us the taste of winning some games in the longer version but will also get us mentally ready on how to bat for longer periods without loosing patience. If we analyze the way our batters get out in tests, we will see almost all cases they get themselves out. Just look at the bowling attack that <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> had in the recent series; you would not find any mediocre pace bowling attack currently, but what was disgusting was the way our batsmen got them selves out. So replacing those mediocre Indian bowlers with bowlers from <st1:country-region w:st="on">Kenya</st1:country-region> or <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">Ireland</st1:country-region></st1:place> may not make any difference in the way our self destructive batsmen bat. So I would be really interested to see how well they cope with the bowling of the associates in the longer version of the game.

I am sure you guys know that many commentators (who are ex-players, some of them with enough cricketing knowledge) during the recently concluded world cup and our own Dav Whatmore pointed out that one of the reasons that may have helped us in building for the World Cup was the winning habit or momentum gained by beating the weaker teams in the one-dayers that we played over the last few months. Of course there’s no proven method or formula that it was the case, but when the trend is for everyone to see, we cannot just say the same would not happen in the longer version.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/ /><o:p></o:p>
<font face=" /><o:p></o:p>
<FONT face=Verdana><o:p></o:p>
<FONT face=Verdana><st1:country-region w:st="<st1:place" Arial?><o:p></o:p>
<FONT face=Verdana>So, I’d say this school of thought cannot be totally rejected on the basis of ego. Instead, we should try this approach paralleled to the other ongoing methods we are following to improve our test cricket skills. <FONT face=Arial><o:p></o:p>
</st1:country-region>

uss01
June 18, 2007, 04:31 PM
Pardosan, Sadi's reply was very inappropriate and silly. Indians are not most hated creatures here and shouldn't be, even if some of the forum members act like that. The Indians that are hated are just the ones that are racist towards BD or like to make fun of us with an arrogant attitude, that's it. I don't think anything you said so far here make you a hated Indian.

I replied to your post without bashing India or Indians, even though I did not agree with your idea of BD team playing more against Kenya or Zim. But I used logic and practical reasoning, as opposed to India bashing which some people here use.








Arrogance Miraz ? I thought syzygy was BD, also i just wanted to reply to sadi for his attitude towards India.

Well if any part of my post gave you that I am mocking BD's test status, you should go back and read my posts on BC. Eitherways, I am posting in a BD forum and shld know my limits, being a foreigner, esp a "Indian", one of the most hated "creatures"

cheers !

Fahmid
June 18, 2007, 04:39 PM
Thank god that ICC is not run by you...Well there comes a time when u have to be tough and play hard on teams and getting players to work hard for their elite status. As for ICC....they are under constant pressure not to air their honest oppinion on BD test status and I can assure u that Most of them do not approve BD in test cricket. Just be a man to accept the reality and start to think what is really good for BD cricket...winning or losing?

Need I say more?

MohammedC
June 18, 2007, 04:49 PM
Bangladesh should only play agianst the best in all level of cricket thats the only way forward. We have played enough against the Minnows. But we should never reject if minnows wants to play us like some big country does sometime.

Fahmid
June 18, 2007, 04:59 PM
Bangladesh should only play agianst the best in all level of cricket thats the only way forward. We have played enough against the Minnows. But we should never reject if minnows wants to play us like some big country does sometime.Will you put a kid in deep waters thinking that only way to learn is by being in deep waters without knowing how to be afloat? Simalarly BD are in Deep waters and need to be takaen out soon to avoid further humiliation and what is so amazing is that we find it very difficult to think more openly....

Farhad
June 18, 2007, 05:20 PM
Will you put a kid in deep waters thinking that only way to learn is by being in deep waters without knowing how to be afloat? Simalarly BD are in Deep waters and need to be takaen out soon to avoid further humiliation and what is so amazing is that we find it very difficult to think more openly....

...Or would you pull the kid from the water just as he's about to reach the shore? If you wanted to take them out, it should have been done in 2003...

al Furqaan
June 18, 2007, 05:54 PM
The only way BD can go forward is by playing teams like Zimbabwe, Westindies and A sides from stronger nations to be frank and at the moment none of these teams deserve to be with elite nations. There fore I back BD to play against weaker teams and they should be set a targets on a win/lose ratio for two years and based on the performance weaker teams like BD, Windies and Zimbabwe can be promoted to elite level. There are no solution other than this....

what the [edit] kinda idea is that???

you'd be more justified to try and convince bush to drop one H bomb on dhaka and put us out of our misery

Electrequiem
June 18, 2007, 06:07 PM
Syzygy, mate, your idea is totally illogical. How can one learn to be better by not being challenged? BD should play more tests with top class teams like Australia, Sri Lanka, New Zealand. India should also follow suit ... beating a fledgling BD test team means nothing ... they should try and defeat teams like the Aussies and the Kiwis.

Ehsan
June 18, 2007, 06:10 PM
Reminder: Attack the message NOT the messenger.

- Mod

syzygy
June 18, 2007, 06:22 PM
Syzygy, mate, your idea is totally illogical. How can one learn to be better by not being challenged? BD should play more tests with top class teams like Australia, Sri Lanka, New Zealand. India should also follow suit ... beating a fledgling BD test team means nothing ... they should try and defeat teams like the Aussies and the Kiwis.

i am not asking not to be challenged by bigger nations but first build the confidence and then get challenged. loosing will never going to give u confidence. i am not even asking for demotion or something which a few posters have made out of my post. its just the right balance of teams bd should play is what i suggested. course we dont look at it with the same angle.

I dont see what the big deal is. Is it me or are some of you really touchy and find almost everything offensive from outsiders? playing test cricket with associates isnt that bad of an idea(even though its not really possible). I mean look back at 2006 and pre world cup, where we only challenged nations relatively less skilled and experienced than us, and we won. The player's confidence grew so much from it, that they performed exceedingly well against good opposition also. We must also realize that we are one of the weaklings still( sad but true). I love Ian W's comment.

ANd I still cant figure out why is there always a debate about India vs bangladesh. For once, can we just leave it alone? I think we BD members must not be too sensitive about this. I now see more of Bd members who are over aggressive and start attacking(verbally of course) at any indian members who try to share their opinion. Learn to take criticism guys. Its a part of life, so lets quit it and leave them alone.

well the big deal may be the big ego that comes in the way. will appreciate things to be looked in a more open debate (than open india bashing which was completely irrelevant to the topic) from mature posters. however the later half of this thread turned to more logical discussions. i will leave it here as i have said what i felt and others made some valid counter arguments too.

MohammedC
June 18, 2007, 06:24 PM
Will you put a kid in deep waters thinking that only way to learn is by being in deep waters without knowing how to be afloat? Simalarly BD are in Deep waters and need to be takaen out soon to avoid further humiliation and what is so amazing is that we find it very difficult to think more openly....


Dont forget we used to get beaten by Kenyan's back in the days when we were minnows. Before 2003 WC BD only won 1 game out of 7 against them. Now that we are playing against big team we have learnt a lot and have beaten the same team 7 in a trought....I am just using Kenya as an example. Yes I know Ireland did get us in this world cup.

No one likes to be humiliated but Bangladesh Cricket is in right path. They are getting all the help they need to become more respectable side. Check the thread below.

External: Aussie cricket pulls up trumps [Fear Bangladesh?] (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=22019)

kalpurush
June 18, 2007, 07:28 PM
syzygy, you make a good point.

Actually playing more test matches with these teams will definitely give BD a lots of confidence and couple of big performances under the players belts will give them a lot to hope for.

when winning and scoring big becomes a habit, then BD will be much more confident in taking the bigger teams. I surely want to see BD beating a couple of teams in test matches and not getting humiliated by the bigger names in cricket.

and as for the other poster, may be a bad weekend of cricket i guess :). bashing India on every opportunity you get to bash is not going to take you anywhere. with all due respects, India is wayyyyy ahead of BD in test matches.

cheers !
Padosan

I can see that. And you took back foot on ODI I see that too! And, rest of your post is a waste of space!!!:hairpull:

AsifTheManRahman
June 18, 2007, 08:17 PM
Well playing against weaker sides isn't a bad idea. I see it as a win-win situation: they get a taste of the longer version, and we get our confidence boosted. However, I don't think the split should be anywhere close to 75:25. We can sure pay the Scots or the Irish a visit, say, when we are traveling to England, or invite the Zimbabweans over during an off season and play a couple of four dayers. The team we play at home could be a mixture of national teamers and reserves.

What we need more importantly is to play tests, period. Do keep in mind that we came close to running the Aussies over the last time we played them at home. Sure, we didn't fare too well in the next game, but it was through playing tough opponents that we had reached a position where the Aussies had to strive to beat us in a test match. Take test matches away from us for a year and a half, and you really can't expect anything more than a couple of inning defeats.

Ehsan
June 18, 2007, 08:36 PM
Kalpurush bhai, chill. Padosan didn't mean to look down on us.

One World
June 18, 2007, 08:51 PM
Ammark and ATMR - both makes good point. Now I will think.

cricket_king
June 19, 2007, 01:43 AM
Well the whole "minnow bashing" thing helped improve our game in ODIs, so why not tests as well? Just wish teams like zimbabwe/kenya/ireland could play tests

Fahmid
June 19, 2007, 07:15 AM
Well playing against weaker sides isn't a bad idea. I see it as a win-win situation: they get a taste of the longer version, and we get our confidence boosted. However, I don't think the split should be anywhere close to 75:25. We can sure pay the Scots or the Irish a visit, say, when we are traveling to England, or invite the Zimbabweans over during an off season and play a couple of four dayers. The team we play at home could be a mixture of national teamers and reserves.

What we need more importantly is to play tests, period. Do keep in mind that we came close to running the Aussies over the last time we played them at home. Sure, we didn't fare too well in the next game, but it was through playing tough opponents that we had reached a position where the Aussies had to strive to beat us in a test match. Take test matches away from us for a year and a half, and you really can't expect anything more than a couple of inning defeats.Totally agree

Sohel
June 19, 2007, 07:32 AM
We sould play more test matches, and more FC matches, period.

akabir77
June 19, 2007, 09:19 AM
Even though many people have given logical explanation why we should continue play the big nation looks like some have made up there mind and still saying thing over and over again. so i don't see why we should even talk about this since those who raised this question with flawed logic and once shown their flaw r not excepting it...

Good bye and good luck with your agenda...

Ahg984
July 4, 2007, 10:20 AM
True. But I guess you missed the point. Just because a team is way ahead of another team doesn't mean the other team shouldn't be in the same league and play Kenya or Namibia in the test matches. So the point is if teams like Australia, South Africa or even Srilanka who are wayyyyyyy ahead of India in test matches right now say the same thing, will you listen to their argument? Most likely no.

bullshit .. here are the test rankings, India is ahead of Sri Lanka AND South Africa.

1
Australia 43 5807 135

2. England 52 5914 114

3
Pakistan 38 4092 108

4
India 41 4407 107

5
Sri Lanka 36 3686 102

6
South Africa 42 4274 102

7
New Zealand 28 2602 93

8
West Indies 38 2738 72

9
Zimbabwe 15 415 28

10
Bangladesh 25 24 1

al Furqaan
July 4, 2007, 10:29 AM
bullshit .. here are the test rankings, India is ahead of Sri Lanka AND South Africa.


the whole thread is BS...

syzygy
July 4, 2007, 03:27 PM
the whole thread is BS...

may be to u, but not more than ur lame comment!

Cryin Out
July 4, 2007, 10:18 PM
We sould play more test matches, and more FC matches, period.

At last, a voice of freakin sanity.

Think of it this way. Test cricket is a marathon race. No one in the world can run a successful marathon even if they are Olympic 100 metre (which is what an ODI is) champions. You can't. The difference between a 24 mile marathon and a 100 metre dash is also the difference between a Test match and an ODI.

The solution is to play longer games, anywhere, anyhow, as many times as possible and with almost anyone, at home or abroad.

In the absence of opportunities to play the longer game at home or abroad, if I were a Bangladesh selector, I would almost tell my batsmen when not on tour: " Today you practice all day in the nets sonny, all day, against 50 bowlers at 20 yards, and if I see you get out more than once today, you are gone. Tomorrow is going to be the same. And the day after that".



Never mind the 'insults' - real and perceived- about Bangladesh playing weak teams. Just play the longer game. In five years it will be a different ballgame.