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Miraz
June 27, 2007, 09:14 AM
I am not a big JO fan at the same time I am not vehemently against him either. He is a senior player and sometimes he puts a lot of value to his wicket. Plays within his limitations and can offer some resistance at the Test level.

I am impressed by his efforts today. He was easily the best batsman of the day. Played shots and was solid in most occasions. Malinga produced a beauty to remove him.

Sometimes I feel we still need him in the Test side, he has still something to offer for Bangladesh Cricket. I hope his injury is not that bad and he can play in the remaining two Tests.

To be honest, he is one of the better player of spin in the Bangladesh side.

He has two 50's in last 3 Tests with a pair in between. Really a difficult call to keep him or look for someone who can fill the slot more effectively.

WarWolf
June 27, 2007, 09:22 AM
JO is a must in tests. We need to give value of experience. Well done JO.

The best way to have a good team is build it with a mixture of experience and youth just like the way Lankans doing right now.

Tigers_eye
June 27, 2007, 09:22 AM
I did not see his innings but definitely it was better than the single digit average some other out of form top order batsman is having.

If we judge by performance we have to replace few more star players before we can get to him. Congrats JO.

Warlock
June 27, 2007, 09:25 AM
JO did his job admirably. It is mainly his credit that we are still batting. Because he set the tone at the beginning.

Rubu
June 27, 2007, 09:25 AM
I would like to add my view about JO here. I have been saying this same things always and think it is a good time to make a statement.

As much as Spitty hate him, he is still a good test opener. His main inability is in rotating strike and find the gap to take singles. Also, he is not a natural stroke maker like Ash, Tamim or Aftab. What that boils down to is that he is unfit for the ODI team. However, test is a whole new game. patience is the biggest virtue here and most of the runs are supposed to come from putting away the bad balls. Given that, JO is still a good choice for the test team. I'd not consider anyone else beside JO-SN-MHjr for the opening slot in test for the next 10 matches. NO, Tamim is not fit for test. Boom, Boom, Bang, ouch is not test cricket.

sandpiper
June 27, 2007, 09:28 AM
ditto

[QUOTE=Miraz;492542

Sometimes I feel we still need him in the Test side, he has still something to offer for Bangladesh Cricket. I hope his injury is not that bad and he can play in the remaining two Tests.

To be honest, he is one of the better player of spin in the Bangladesh side. [/QUOTE]

gatekeeper
June 27, 2007, 09:28 AM
Sometimes I feel we still need him in the Test side, he has still something to offer for Bangladesh Cricket. I hope his injury is not that bad and he can play in the remaining two Tests.
.


Not just Tests, I reckon we need him in ODIs as well. Someone has to bat out the overs. We are still not a team that bats all 50 overs consistantly agaist big teams.

Electrequiem
June 27, 2007, 09:30 AM
Very well played JO.

sandpiper
June 27, 2007, 09:31 AM
aptly put
Not just Tests, I reckon we need him in ODIs as well. Someone has to bat out the overs. We are still not a team that bats all 50 overs consistantly agaist big teams.

WarWolf
June 27, 2007, 09:34 AM
NO, Tamim is not fit for test. Boom, Boom, Bang, ouch is not test cricket.
What about Jayasuriya, Haiden, Gayle, Gilchrist and Smith as test batsmen? think they are quiet aggressive players. Tamim is not bang bang type. Though he is a big stroke maker, you can check his strike rate in ODIs. it's around 65.65.

sandpiper
June 27, 2007, 09:38 AM
it IS premature (rather laughable) to compare this kid with Jayasuria, Hayden or Gillie. Test cricket is a completely different ball game, its all about temperament, stamina, ability, focus, footwork, composure .....
What about Jayasuriya, Haiden, Gayle, Gilchrist and Smith as test batsmen? think they are quiet aggressive players. Tamim is not bang bang type. Though he is a big stroke maker, you can check his strike rate in ODIs. it's around 65.65.

Rubu
June 27, 2007, 09:39 AM
What about Jayasuriya, Haiden, Gayle, Gilchrist and Smith as test batsmen? think they are quiet aggressive players. Tamim is not bang bang type. Though he is a big stroke maker, you can check his strike rate in ODIs. it's around 65.65.May be he will be ready in few years or months who knows, but he need to show the maturity that he knows which ball to pick and which one to leave. being aggressive has nothing to do with playing test (for or against). Its the judgment of selecting balls and how you react to it. I have not seen Tamim doing that, yet.

SS
June 27, 2007, 09:42 AM
JO played good innings with patience that we really need today we saw it even at the end.
But his replacements need to be tested first in leagues and then can be brought in to the squad. So far our longer version game, not sure who is performing consistently to be considered as replacement.

left-hander
June 27, 2007, 09:44 AM
Golla is the ugly duckling on Bangladesh cricket but he knows how to hang around which is great for test matches.

Tigers_eye
June 27, 2007, 09:45 AM
What about Jayasuriya, Haiden, Gayle, Gilchrist and Smith as test batsmen? think they are quiet aggressive players. Tamim is not bang bang type. Though he is a big stroke maker, you can check his strike rate in ODIs. it's around 65.65.
What about them? They are all good. What is their average age? How many balls they have faced before the set their foot as an opener? Who they have coming behind them once they get out? Who does Tamim would have coming behind him? Let Tamim play at least couple of years more. I want to see him as a performer. Not a flash in the pan jodi laigga jai Eid day player. This is for his and the teams own good.

Tamim is no Tendu (Patience). There is no room in charging down the wicket in test cricket.

WarWolf
June 27, 2007, 09:47 AM
May be he will be ready in few years or months who knows, but he need to show the maturity that he knows which ball to pick and which one to leave. being aggressive has nothing to do with playing test (for or against). Its the judgment of selecting balls and how you react to it. I have not seen Tamim doing that, yet.
Yet he has an average of 43.36 in 12 FC matches with 2 hundreds and 5 fifties. But I agree with you in the point of giving him atleast 2/3 years more before bringing into test cricket. I don't wanna see another player being destroyed.

Ishtylish cricketer
June 27, 2007, 09:48 AM
needed to go on and get a ton. That's the problem I have with JO. He can't get the big scores. Slowness or low strike rate is not an issue in tests but he needs a few shots in his armour for ODIs especially. JO in ODIs well due to inconsistencies of other openers he will be able to remain in the national team but ideally you would want a complete batsman opening for you.

WarWolf
June 27, 2007, 09:53 AM
What about them? They are all good. What is their average age? How many balls they have faced before the set their foot as an opener? Who they have coming behind them once they get out? Who does Tamim would have coming behind him? Let Tamim play at least couple of years more. I want to see him as a performer. Not a flash in the pan jodi laigga jai Eid day player. This is for his and the teams own good.

Tamim is no Tendu (Patience). There is no room in charging down the wicket in test cricket.
You probably got me wrong. I tried to mean that being attacking doesn't have any problem in test cricket if you are good enough. I agree with you, he must be matured enough in terms of age and experience before pushing into big test arena.

Rubu
June 27, 2007, 10:04 AM
WW, there is a vast difference between Bangladeshi 4 day matches and international arena. Anyway, i think we are reaching an agreement here: he can be an asset, so lets not hurry with him and make him lose the 'et' like we did to many players.

btw, I love your sig!

Spitfire_x86
June 27, 2007, 10:05 AM
JO is a specialist for caught behind/at slips and lbw. On top of that add his inablility to play more than 2 shots (square cut and straight drive).

That's why he is a terrible test batsman. If he had the basics right, then he could still be of some use in the test side. His 62 is the worst thing to happen to BD team in this test.

WarWolf
June 27, 2007, 10:07 AM
If he had the basics right, then he could still be of some use in the test side. His 62 is the worst thing to happen to BD team in this test.
You yourself dont believe it, i guess. Right?:waiting:

Miraz
June 27, 2007, 10:08 AM
JO is a specialist for caught behind/at slips and lbw. On top of that add his inablility to play more than 2 shots (square cut and straight drive).

That's why he is a terrible test batsman. If he had the basics right, then he could still be of some use in the test side. His 62 is the worst thing to happen to BD team in this test.

Spitty, have you watched his innings today?

None of his boundaries came from Cuts or Straight drive. He played a good amount of other shots (cover drive, extra cover drive, flick, leg glance etc..) to earn those nicely looking boundaries. He was well balanced in the shot making.

IMO, the second part of your post does not deserve a reply.

Spitfire_x86
June 27, 2007, 10:09 AM
NO, Tamim is not fit for test. Boom, Boom, Bang, ouch is not test cricket.
Afridi averages higher than any Bangladeshi batsman in test, and he also has more test centuries than any Bangladeshi batsman. His highest test score is higher than JO's best test score.

Farhad
June 27, 2007, 10:09 AM
Hes in pretty good form, no doubt about that. The question is, how long can he keep it up?

Omio
June 27, 2007, 10:13 AM
I am not a big JO fan at the same time I am not vehemently against him either. He is a senior player and sometimes he puts a lot of value to his wicket. Plays within his limitations and can offer some resistance at the Test level.



He has two 50's in last 3 Tests with a pair in between. Really a difficult call to keep him or look for someone who can fill the slot more effectively.
I didnt notice anything wrong his technique today,most of the ball he able to play middle of the bat.And also played some brilliant shot.His defence was perfect, shot selection was also better rather than any innings.And he passing his best time in his career.

Rubu
June 27, 2007, 10:14 AM
Afridi averages higher than any Bangladeshi batsman in test, and he also has more test centuries than any Bangladeshi batsman. His highest test score is higher than JO's best test score.Now, I give me one reason to believe Tamim = Afridi.

Afridi, Gilli and Shewag has been a distinct group of player, the exceptions, that does not fall into any specification. Trying to use them as an example of a group does not make any sense.

mali007
June 27, 2007, 10:17 AM
I would like to add my view about JO here. I have been saying this same things always and think it is a good time to make a statement.

As much as Spitty hate him, he is still a good test opener. His main inability is in rotating strike and find the gap to take singles. Also, he is not a natural stroke maker like Ash, Tamim or Aftab. What that boils down to is that he is unfit for the ODI team. However, test is a whole new game. patience is the biggest virtue here and most of the runs are supposed to come from putting away the bad balls. Given that, JO is still a good choice for the test team. I'd not consider anyone else beside JO-SN-MHjr for the opening slot in test for the next 10 matches. NO, Tamim is not fit for test. Boom, Boom, Bang, ouch is not test cricket.
About Tamim I do not agree with you. We have seen his boom, boom in ODI.s and twenty20. How do you sure he will do same shots in TEST. His average in longer version
domestic cricket is around 40 . He scored 200 for Chittagong div. in a national championship match------ you can not score double hundred with only boom, boom !! He is a very talented player who applies his shots according to merit and situation of the game. In modern test cricket you need some aggresion as shown by JO in the 2nd innings.

Fazal
June 27, 2007, 10:17 AM
Good job JO.

Nai mamar Cheye Kana Mama Bhalo.

I am not a JO fan. However I have to admit, I am not convinced that currently we have a better solution at opening than Gullu (for TEST), therefore I am happy with him for now.

We need to know when to praise and when to criticize a player and JO deserve my priase for this fighting innings. JO and Rajin was great in their effort.

I think he has solidified his slot for the rest of the TEST series.

Spitfire_x86
June 27, 2007, 10:20 AM
Spitty, have you watched his innings today?
None of his boundaries came from Cuts or Straight drive. He played a good amount of other shots (cover drive, extra cover drive, flick, leg glance etc..) to earn those nicely looking boundaries. He was well balanced in the shot making.
No, I haven't watched his innings today.

If he can maintain greater than 30 average in test for more than 1 year (counting from the India series), then I may re-evaluate my opinion about him. Till now, he's the luckiest player ever to play for Bangladesh. From Bulbul/Akram to Rokon/Hannan, everybody had to pay for not performing. But our legendary JO is always ever "reliable". One 50 here and there, and then years of non-performing is forgiven.

SS
June 27, 2007, 10:27 AM
I understand the sentiment of JO's slowness and shot limitations. But got to give credit today for what he did.
Do we have any better replacement yet, if so, we can start playing him in one down, but I still prefer the replacement to be tried to leagues for some time before bringing him to the national team in tests.

Spitfire_x86
June 27, 2007, 10:28 AM
Now, I give me one reason to believe Tamim = Afridi.

Afridi, Gilli and Shewag has been a distinct group of player, the exceptions, that does not fall into any specification. Trying to use them as an example of a group does not make any sense.
I didn't say that Tamim = Afridi. You put Tamim in the same bin of Afridi (temperament wise) and said that players like him can't be successful because of their temperament doesn't suit test cricket.

You can't compare Gilly and Sehwag with Afridi either. Afridi is the definition of senseless and unreliable batsman, which Gilly/Sehwag/(and others) are not.

Farhad
June 27, 2007, 10:34 AM
May be he will be ready in few years or months who knows, but he need to show the maturity that he knows which ball to pick and which one to leave. being aggressive has nothing to do with playing test (for or against). Its the judgment of selecting balls and how you react to it. I have not seen Tamim doing that, yet.

Have you compared Tamims FC average to some of our other national players? What you say (about Tamim being no Gilly. etc) holds true if it were not for the team hes looking to get into. You could argue that Tamims quickfire "low" scores are of no use in test cricket if we actually had a better replacement. His 30s in quick time are still better than the 0-20s the others manage in our team. Im just as surprised as some of our Indian visitors that he hasnt been called up yet. The selectors are going to panic after a bad performance after this series and bring him in sooner or later, mark my words. That would be a BIG mistake. They should have done it earlier when there was a little less pressure on him (right after a good world cup campaign). Besides, JOs in great form right now, and taking out Nafees just when hes looking set to regain it would be suicide, both for him and for Bangladesh...

Rubu
June 27, 2007, 10:34 AM
The only way Gilli, shewag and Afridi match is that they are all exceptions. I did not say they match with each other.

Nafi
June 27, 2007, 10:43 AM
No, I haven't watched his innings today.

If he can maintain greater than 30 average in test for more than 1 year (counting from the India series), then I may re-evaluate my opinion about him.

THATS VERY UNFAIR

Since the biased umpire made wrong decision on the second test match.

al Furqaan
June 27, 2007, 10:55 AM
No, I haven't watched his innings today.

If he can maintain greater than 30 average in test for more than 1 year (counting from the India series), then I may re-evaluate my opinion about him. Till now, he's the luckiest player ever to play for Bangladesh. From Bulbul/Akram to Rokon/Hannan, everybody had to pay for not performing. But our legendary JO is always ever "reliable". One 50 here and there, and then years of non-performing is forgiven.

spitty,

you are alone on this forum i think...

now, in the past i have said that JO does not belong on the Test team even. of course i must reevaluate that stance.

true he will bag pairs like he did last month. but then sometimes he will be our best bat by far eg (england tour 2005, today).

thus my conclusion is that JO is just as big of an enigma as ashraful. those 2 are impossible to figure out, and could bag a golden duck or play a solid knock. there are differences between them, most obviously being:

1) JO has almost zero technique, whereas as ash has solid technique
2) because of 1 above, ash's is a gamebreaker, whereas JO is merely, on his day, a trendsetter as he was today.

as a result, i favor JO being in the Test side, but will agree with spitty that he is a cancer in the ODI side.

secondly, why only single out JO as the batsmen who needs to maintain a 30 average over one year to remain on the team? only bashar and rajin have managed that in a career, asides from ash for year (he averaged 40 in 2004).

JO is also my least favorite batsmen, but he deserves a fair shot, so long as he serves the interests of the team. today we saw exactly how he helped, he got our biggest opening partnership in Test history against vaas, murali, and malinga!!

Ehsan
June 27, 2007, 11:06 AM
First appreciating thread on JO? Great! He deserves it. I ain't a JO fan nor a hater, but I have been watching him for long in BD games. To tell you the truth, I have said this before and I am saying it again -JO's technique is getting better day by day as he is getting older. He is not as defensive as he used to be. He is reading the balls a lot better than before, he is concentrating more and puts away almost all bad deliveries that are bowled at him. He is simply getting better. Congrats JO on the good knock today and good luck for the future on whatever may remain on you.

Fazal
June 27, 2007, 11:06 AM
secondly, why only single out JO as the batsmen who needs to maintain a 30 average over one year to remain on the team? only bashar and rajin have managed that in a career, asides from ash for year (he averaged 40 in 2004).


Good point. Most likely because sometimes we unknowingly start concentrating too much on "players first -team second" concept may be? Otherwise why so hesitation giving JO a credit when he truly deserve it? OR why setting different standard for different players?

rah
June 27, 2007, 11:24 AM
well payed take a bow JO
no realli he still has a lot to give to our cricket. we must groom MEHrab he is stilll too young and JO is a god playa hoo still has a lot to give

Trigger_Tiger
June 27, 2007, 11:32 AM
The coolest thing about Javed Omar is that he is neither fast nor is he very flashy, so we do not even have to yell out loud:

"It's a jhinga, its an alu, its a potol.....no it's our GOLLA!"

His and Rajin's wicket yesterday had a hefty price tag. Apparently Rajin thought of putting on a hefty discount to his wicket while Omar's decline came sadly due to a better product's shine!

I enjoyed his batting yesterday as I did his effort against against India in the first ODI last month (even though I was a little bit pissed with the amount of balls he wasted.....10 less wasted balls that day by him would've made me much more happier)!

He had the stance, the solid defense, and some glorious shots in that innings of his yesterday.

I desperately wanted him to get a hundred. I hope he is doing well and recovers soon, or else Mehrab will get a chance to open up for Bangladesh, hence making his debut :)!!!!!

Baundule
June 27, 2007, 11:37 AM
Let's at least wait till the match is over before starting to praise the HEROs.
Let's make sure that their first innings failures are not overlooked. JO scored 60+ runs, more importantly he denied the Sri Lankans for 117 deliveries. That's good effort; but NOT enough. When set, one must carry his innings. I did not mind if he scored only 10 runs; but remained unbeaten at the end of the day.

Beamer
June 27, 2007, 12:03 PM
Never thought I would say this, but, at the moment, JO is more deserving than Bashar in the test team. However, none of them deserve to get a look in the ODI team, even if, JO continues to score some runs in this test series.

al Furqaan
June 27, 2007, 12:04 PM
OR why setting different standard for different players?

well, i do believe there should be different standards for different players...

e.g. marvin harrison is his team's go to receiver on 3rd and 8 during a 2 minute drill...

therefore, to expect more from SN, ash, aftab, sakib, rajin, mash, rafiq, and rajib is justified. but on the flip side, we also have to give them more leeway (i.e. if tushar fails a few innings, he's outta the lineup).

Sillypoint
June 27, 2007, 12:10 PM
JOB, well done!

He has the better claim of the three dinosaurus (HB.KMP.JOB) in the team to stay for a while in Tests.

Fazal
June 27, 2007, 12:24 PM
well, i do believe there should be different standards for different players...

e.g. marvin harrison is his team's go to receiver on 3rd and 8 during a 2 minute drill...

therefore, to expect more from SN, ash, aftab, sakib, rajin, mash, rafiq, and rajib is justified. but on the flip side, we also have to give them more leeway (i.e. if tushar fails a few innings, he's outta the lineup).

I understand what you are saying. You cannot set same expectation from for example Ash (experienced) and Sakib (newer). They are in different phase of their career. Plus every player has their unique role and responsibility based on how long they are playing and where they are playing. I was not disputing that.

But you still need to have to judge by same kind of similar standards in general term. You cannot say for example Gullu needs to score 35+ ave. for a year before he should be recognized but for some reason a 20+ ave is ok for some other players because they are more talented or fans like him.

You cannot bring a player and drop him right away for no reason (Farhad for exmaple) without sticking for few series. On the other hand you cannot give countless opportunities to other players purely based on speculative 'talent' reason. You need to follow some kind of transparent process. Ofcourse there will be some exceptions. The standard need to be well undestood by the selectors, coach, players, reporter as well as informed fans. Unless we do that, it will be caos as usual.

sandpiper
June 27, 2007, 12:27 PM
exactly my view :)
I understand what you are saying. You cannot set same expectation from for example Ash (experienced) and Sakib (newer). They are in different phase of their career. Plus every player has their unique role and responsibility based on how long they are playing and where they are playing. I was not disputing that.

But you still need to have to judge by same kind of similar standards in general term. You cannot say for example Gullu needs to score 35+ ave. for a year before he should be recognized but for some reason a 20+ ave is ok for some other players because they are more talented or fans like him.

You cannot bring a player and drop him right away for no reason (Farhad for exmaple) without sticking for few series. On the other hand you cannot give countless opportunities to other players purely based on speculative 'talent' reason. You need to follow some kind of transparent process. Ofcourse there will be some exceptions. The standard need to be well undestood by the selectors, coach, players, reporter as well as informed fans. Unless we do that, it will be caos as usual.

Ahmed_B
June 27, 2007, 12:30 PM
Good job JO.

Nai mamar Cheye Kana Mama Bhalo.

I am not a JO fan. However I have to admit, I am not convinced that currently we have a better solution at opening than Gullu (for TEST), therefore I am happy with him for now.

We need to know when to praise and when to criticize a player and JO deserve my priase for this fighting innings. JO and Rajin was great in their effort.

I think he has solidified his slot for the rest of the TEST series.
Well said. Exactly my thoughts too.

Rajowana
June 27, 2007, 12:34 PM
Javed did well today.Well done!!!!!!

oracle
June 27, 2007, 12:44 PM
Hmm..Just surprised how Rajin and his efforts gets overshadowed everytime he tries to claw his way back to the team.

shamster
June 27, 2007, 01:04 PM
Credit where it is due - but lets see more of the same please. I must say apart from from Bashar the rest did well - they tried to stay at the crease I really liked that

mali007
June 27, 2007, 01:13 PM
WW, there is a vast difference between Bangladeshi 4 day matches and international arena. Anyway, i think we are reaching an agreement here: he can be an asset, so lets not hurry with him and make him lose the 'et' like we did to many players.

btw, I love your sig!
There is also vast difference between Bangladesh 1 day matches and international arena. Then how you will judge Tamim's domestic 1 day performances with international
arena ?

Sovik
June 27, 2007, 02:44 PM
i am a JO basher. but credit should be given where it is due. he played really well today. i don't like his batting at all. its a torture for me but whenever he is in the team, i wish him well and and hope everyone else will do better than him.

only problem is our youngsters, they couldn't prove themselves and our selectors ended up picking javed.

FagunerAgun
June 27, 2007, 03:10 PM
JO is the best Test batsman of BD currently.
His improved rr is a nice reply to his critix.

Shaan
June 27, 2007, 03:11 PM
I am not JO fan but one thing I realized from this test that we need Jo most for our test matches onwards till he provides his valuable services for the team. He is not harming but benefiting the team..

cricketboy
June 27, 2007, 03:13 PM
JO is a specialist for caught behind/at slips and lbw. On top of that add his inablility to play more than 2 shots (square cut and straight drive).

That's why he is a terrible test batsman. If he had the basics right, then he could still be of some use in the test side. His 62 is the worst thing to happen to BD team in this test.

Worst post in BC ever. :sick:

FagunerAgun
June 27, 2007, 03:14 PM
:applause: Go JO Go :applause:

FagunerAgun
June 27, 2007, 03:18 PM
JO is a specialist for caught behind/at slips and lbw. On top of that add his inablility to play more than 2 shots (square cut and straight drive).

That's why he is a terrible test batsman. If he had the basics right, then he could still be of some use in the test side. His 62 is the worst thing to happen to BD team in this test.

This is a disgusting post.

shovon13
June 27, 2007, 03:27 PM
huh...disgusting eh? i see nothing but eloquent reasoning.
our team will finally enter the next phase (of whose verge its been on for the past year it seems) when Jo, bashar, and pilot are gone from the team. i seriously cant wait. its pretty frustrating to see these guys struggle on and on when we have about four very capable replacements waiting for each position. even rajin frustrates me with his limited technique at times. thats the only thing you have when you are facing world class bowlers.

syzygy
June 27, 2007, 03:32 PM
hats off to u javed omar belim...i know u dont have the skills to play attacking cricket and was hopping around the crease to most of the delivaries..but u r a true fighter. the youngstars have a lot to learn from ur fighting qualities, i liked ur never say die attitude.. i hope the bangladeshi captain learns a trick or two from u...u r my man of the match!

Rubu
June 27, 2007, 03:41 PM
There is also vast difference between Bangladesh 1 day matches and international arena. Then how you will judge Tamim's domestic 1 day performances with international
arena ?

You really can't. Actually, you can to some extend. If someone does good in our domestic cricket, that is where u would have to pick the batsman from. But, there is no assurance that that person will do good in international arena. the quality of our pitch and competition is the main reason to blame for that, but that is a different story. bottom line is, shorter or longer version of the game, there is no exact relation between domestic performance and international performance. Now, going back to the specific case of Tamim. True he has a good domestic record. But has he really proven himself for ODI. The way I see it, we got only one good innings from him so far. He still have everything to prove. But many people seems to take that one innings and think that it will be repeated does not matter what. it might not.

1 good innings and some people becoming big fan of a batsman, I don't understand that. Take Kapali for example. He has one good 80's in ODI. and so many people still thinks he is the best batsman ever.

So, lets just hope Tamim does not have to sell that one innings again and again and will be able to repeat it. and we have to make sure we maximize the chance. I think letting him focus on ODI is much better for him.

syzygy
June 27, 2007, 03:43 PM
JO is a specialist for caught behind/at slips and lbw. On top of that add his inablility to play more than 2 shots (square cut and straight drive).

That's why he is a terrible test batsman. If he had the basics right, then he could still be of some use in the test side. His 62 is the worst thing to happen to BD team in this test.

i agree to to a certain extent...but have u seen him fight to the end today? yes he lacks skills and the flair but he has abundant of guts to fight till death. i did nt see that from ur captain or previous vc who preferred to throw away their wickets, when it was asked to hold ground and fight. test cricket is not pyajama cricket.

Spitfire_x86
June 27, 2007, 04:25 PM
true he will bag pairs like he did last month. but then sometimes he will be our best bat by far eg (england tour 2005, today).
Aftab also did fairly well in that series. JO was able to ride on the performance of that series for next 2 year. He got chance in every test since then and failed almost every time. But he still has the label of "test specialist" intanct, and on the other hand Aftab has been pretty much undesirable in the test team (in the selectors' eye).

secondly, why only single out JO as the batsmen who needs to maintain a 30 average over one year to remain on the team? only bashar and rajin have managed that in a career, asides from ash for year (he averaged 40 in 2004).
Because if he has really improved somewhat, and having the best time of his career, then it must create some difference in terms of statistics. Actually the best time of his career was in 2001, and since then he had nothing but a string of failures. (with very few exceptions, like 2005 England test series).

And if he is going to average 20 (instead of 10-15), it is better to find a permanent solution. For extra 10 runs per innings for next 1 year, delaying the inevitable can be tolerated.

DJ Sahastra
June 27, 2007, 04:29 PM
It is good to see JO perform well but i somehow share Spitfire's pessimism on JO & Co.

Despite his failures, i'd put my money on the likes of SN (Okay, i am not saying this because his better half is quite pretty).

al Furqaan
June 27, 2007, 04:33 PM
Hmm..Just surprised how Rajin and his efforts gets overshadowed everytime he tries to claw his way back to the team.

because rajin has very little variation...he always seems to score 30-50 runs no matter what.

thus he is not praised like ash's 158*, or condemned like JO or hannan's pairs.

but everyone has praised rajin's determination in being our rahul dravid for the 2nd innings....

Spitfire_x86
June 27, 2007, 04:37 PM
1 good innings and some people becoming big fan of a batsman, I don't understand that. Take Kapali for example. He has one good 80's in ODI. and so many people still thinks he is the best batsman ever.
Kapali had more than 1 good 80 in ODIs. Just take 2002 West Indies test series and 2003 Pakistan ODI series for example. He used to be what Sakib is now today in terms of consistent performance.

sam6454
June 27, 2007, 04:59 PM
Although cricket is a game to spectators, but it is a job (career) to a player. Like in any other business in cricket a true professional assess the situation and work accordingly. Jo did just that. I think his understanding of the game (at least recently) is much better than our other batsmen.

Kudos to JO.

Hatebreed
June 27, 2007, 05:11 PM
Javed played well today. If he can deliver that more often, I see no reason why he should be left out of the test side.

SS
June 27, 2007, 05:17 PM
Kapali had more than 1 good 80 in ODIs. Just take 2002 West Indies test series and 2003 Pakistan ODI series for example. He used to be what Sakib is now today in terms of consistent performance.
Kapali's failure for few matches resulted a bad impression on him, that him he needed to be rested and play in leagues to regain his form, but it was not done during that time. Now he is doing fine in leagues. On the other hand, the method of dropping for few matches, letting play in leagues to perform, and thus regaining form was quite successful for few(e.g. Ashraful).

Duck
June 27, 2007, 05:21 PM
JO did a pretty good job considering the circumstances of the 1st innings.

He set the tone of the 3rd day by getting 3 consecutive boundaries in an over from Vaas early in the morning. That gave all the confidence to SNafees to hang out in the middle and handle Murali with beauty.

Hope JO keeps this up. I know sweet words are just the poison to kill our batsmen! Shouldnt we keep bashing these guys to get the best services out of them?!!

al Furqaan
June 27, 2007, 05:42 PM
Kapali had more than 1 good 80 in ODIs. Just take 2002 West Indies test series and 2003 Pakistan ODI series for example. He used to be what Sakib is now today in terms of consistent performance.

really...saqib averages 40+ over 20+ innings...

kapali averages just 17, he's not even on ash's level of inconsistency. yes saqib played a lot of minnows, but he's been pretty tight against top sides as well...

al Furqaan
June 27, 2007, 05:44 PM
1 good innings and some people becoming big fan of a batsman, I don't understand that. Take Kapali for example. He has one good 80's in ODI. and so many people still thinks he is the best batsman ever.

no one is becoming a JO fan, at least i'm not...but like you said, its one good innings and so we are giving him one good praise...nothing more, nothing less.

you and spitty should start a "drop JO" lobby in dhaka...lol

i'll be the minister of recruitment.

Rubu
June 27, 2007, 06:05 PM
no one is becoming a JO fan, at least i'm not...but like you said, its one good innings and so we are giving him one good praise...nothing more, nothing less.

you and spitty should start a "drop JO" lobby in dhaka...lol

i'll be the minister of recruitment.I was saying this in terms of Tamim refering him to the India innings in WC, not JO. I actually praised JO and I was never against Playing JO in test. I was (and am and always will be) against playing JO in ODI.

Rubu
June 27, 2007, 06:08 PM
Kapali had more than 1 good 80 in ODIs. Just take 2002 West Indies test series and 2003 Pakistan ODI series for example. He used to be what Sakib is now today in terms of consistent performance.
NO he did not. Please check his career in CI. In ODI he went into 80's once and so did in test once.

al Furqaan
June 27, 2007, 06:14 PM
I was saying this in terms of Tamim refering him to the India innings in WC, not JO. I actually praised JO and I was never against Playing JO in test. I was (and am and always will be) against playing JO in ODI.

i was against him in tests and ODIs...he is in form now, so he stays in teh test side, but in future his place prolly will be someone elses'...

didn't know u were discussing TI

WarWolf
June 27, 2007, 07:09 PM
So, lets just hope Tamim does not have to sell that one innings again and again and will be able to repeat it. and we have to make sure we maximize the chance. I think letting him focus on ODI is much better for him.
In a word, let Tamim prove his values constantly in ODIs and FCs before bringing in test matches. Though I am also a big fan of him, this is a safer way to go. Cause in the end, we all wanna him having bright long career, not being early dropped out.

al Furqaan
June 27, 2007, 07:24 PM
NO he did not. Please check his career in CI. In ODI he went into 80's once and so did in test once.

actually kapaly looked pretty decent...his overall avg after 28 ODIs was 27 (aftab like), but his SR was lower, but still good...id imagine it was near 70...

that said, he was given plenty of chances and just tailed off...he deserved to be dropped.

i for one hope he regains his form and comes back to bolster our MO, fielding, and also occaision leg spin...

but i would take saqib over him, at least at the moment...

jabbar
June 27, 2007, 08:10 PM
Test cricket needs experience, and BD do not have that many players with great amounts of experience. JO, Bashar and Mashud have lots of experience, so they great to have around. It is a real dilemma when one of these trio doesn't play well though...

Zobair
June 27, 2007, 08:33 PM
His secong innings was a good one indeed...the opposite of his first innings. Well done JO sire! He showed plenty of determination and showed positive intent.

But let us not get carried away. The pitch was fairly docile and kind to JO's limitations. I hope Mehrab Hossain Jnr gets a chance sometime during this series...IMO Mehrab can match JO for his solidity, stickability, and has his SLA as a bonus.

One World
June 27, 2007, 08:47 PM
#11 speaks loud about introducing Tamim right away
#17 good point about ODIs
#28 cant agree more

WarWolf
June 27, 2007, 08:47 PM
Any update on JO's injury?

shaoun
June 27, 2007, 08:53 PM
javed omar has been in a really good form lately. yes i agree he doesnt have all those shots like ashraful does. but he knows how to play within his limitation. not only in test, he is needed in odi as well. he can from a good opening partnership. if you notice bd game lately opening partnership has been pretty decent. i hope javed can keep up his form for next yr or two until tamim gets more experience. i was really happy to see nafees getting some runs as well. after ashraful i think nafees is our best batsman.

Electrequiem
June 27, 2007, 09:41 PM
javed omar has been in a really good form lately. yes i agree he doesnt have all those shots like ashraful does. but he knows how to play within his limitation. not only in test, he is needed in odi as well. he can from a good opening partnership. if you notice bd game lately opening partnership has been pretty decent. i hope javed can keep up his form for next yr or two until tamim gets more experience. i was really happy to see nafees getting some runs as well. after ashraful i think nafees is our best batsman.

Agree with what you said, mate.

You would have Tamim wait 1-2 years before joining the test arena?

BD Tigers
June 27, 2007, 10:10 PM
Great knock by JO. The way he was batting tomorrow, only a perfect ball wud get him out and sure enuf Malinga produced it. Great job by him and Nafees.

didnt know wud love to see a defense game all nite long from Rajin and Ash. They played awesome until Ash threw his wk at the end. So frustrating.

shujan
June 27, 2007, 10:31 PM
Lots of people here have talked against Tamim Iqbal's inclusion for world cup. We all know what Tamim has done for Bangladesh in the world cup. He is very much capable to do it in the test level as well. Tamim is better then Ash and Saqib in batting. He is also more consistent. He is the best technical batsman Bangladesh has ever produced. Please look at his batting record of longer version game in A team and NCL. He gets huge run in longer version of cricket as well. He actually adjusts his tempo of batting to the version of the game!! Give him a chance he will dazzle you in test as well with his throbbing batting.

PS: JO for president!:)

shujan
June 27, 2007, 10:32 PM
Great knock by JO. The way he was batting tomorrow, only a perfect ball wud get him out and sure enuf Malinga produced it. Great job by him and Nafees.

didnt know wud love to see a defense game all nite long from Rajin and Ash. They played awesome until Ash threw his wk at the end. So frustrating.


It is not easy to play test cricket in dark...

cricketboy
June 27, 2007, 10:41 PM
Lots of people here have talked against Tamim Iqbal's inclusion for world cup. We all know what Tamim has done for Bangladesh in the world cup. He is very much capable to do it in the test level as well. Tamim is better then Ash and Saqib in batting. He is also more consistent. He is the best technical batsman Bangladesh has ever produced. Please look at his batting record of longer version game in A team and NCL. He gets huge run in longer version of cricket as well. He actually adjusts his tempo of batting to the version of the game!! Give him a chance he will dazzle you in test as well with his throbbing batting.

PS: JO for president!:)

Sakib always looks so vulnerable when he bats in tests, probably Mehrab can come in for him next match if he does bad again. Mehrab can hold the innings at no 6 like Javed does at the top. He can also bowl left arm spin like Shakib. :smug:

mali007
June 28, 2007, 12:04 AM
You really can't. Actually, you can to some extend. If someone does good in our domestic cricket, that is where u would have to pick the batsman from. But, there is no assurance that that person will do good in international arena. the quality of our pitch and competition is the main reason to blame for that, but that is a different story. bottom line is, shorter or longer version of the game, there is no exact relation between domestic performance and international performance. Now, going back to the specific case of Tamim. True he has a good domestic record. But has he really proven himself for ODI. The way I see it, we got only one good innings from him so far. He still have everything to prove. But many people seems to take that one innings and think that it will be repeated does not matter what. it might not.

1 good innings and some people becoming big fan of a batsman, I don't understand that. Take Kapali for example. He has one good 80's in ODI. and so many people still thinks he is the best batsman ever.

So, lets just hope Tamim does not have to sell that one innings again and again and will be able to repeat it. and we have to make sure we maximize the chance. I think letting him focus on ODI is much better for him.
Tamim came to lime light with his brilliant performance in warm up match against the
mighty NZ attack. He also batted well against SA. For his outstanding performances he was selected into the ASIAN xi.

yaseer
June 28, 2007, 12:09 AM
right now....JO is must in test team

Baundule
June 28, 2007, 01:49 AM
One of the reasons, why our players don't learn from their mistakes, is the fan-reaction after a semi-good innings, like scoring a 50. This thread is a good example.

The whole team performed absolutely rubbish, yes, in both innings. And people are there to make someone a national HERO just because of a semi-good innings of 62. You can not improve your standard, if you dont know what the standard should be. To most of the fans, a 30+ score is good enough. (Ref: Rahim's innings in the practice match)

----
To avoid misunderstanding, I want JO in the team. So, this comment has nothing to do with personal liking or disliking.

PoorFan
June 28, 2007, 02:26 AM
Javed did a good job, which earned him another test to be played, not another year, thats how I see. In a long run we need Tamim or Mehrab in his place, and sooner is better.

cricket_king
June 28, 2007, 03:46 AM
Nah belim deserves to stay for the next test. Tamim will just have to wait longer :sigh: