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View Full Version : Miandad on Whatmore and tangentially Bangladesh


Zunaid
July 5, 2007, 11:32 AM
Whle the context of the news item is more about PCB's coach hunt, Miandad did make a comment that makes it relevant to Bangladesh.

Miandad, who played 124 tests, said if foreign coaches were indeed a sure shot recipe for success than Dav Whatmore would have achieved wonders with the Bangladesh cricket team.

"He was with them (Bangladesh) for more than four years without getting notable results. In their first series after he left, Bangladesh have performed pathetically. What does that mean that in retrospect he has left no legacy behind on which Bangladesh cricket can improve," he said.

The article: Go for strong base than foreign coach: Miandad (http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1108218) - DNA Sports

tonoy
July 5, 2007, 11:53 AM
pfft typical Miandad comment since he himself, wanted a coaching role. These pakis have always thought low of us.

WarWolf
July 5, 2007, 12:31 PM
Strange comment.E-) Surely it's worth a good discussion.

Tigers_eye
July 5, 2007, 12:39 PM
some valid points about the structure, local coach training and talent yet other comments are so full of it that makes his comment look like coming out of an ameture's mouth.

What Foreign coach has achieved in Asian teams? A WC title is not enough for him :) (SL). The one who may as well coach his team. :)

LateCut
July 5, 2007, 12:46 PM
I would not interpret his comment this way. He probably means that foreign coach is not the only solution or the only piece in the puzzle. There need to have good coaches at all levels, adequate infrastructures (fields, equipments, nutitional and health support, talent nurturing) and competitive cricket (1st class and others) structure in order to improve and sustain its pace.

Ahmed_B
July 5, 2007, 12:52 PM
So miandad blames all the BD Test failure on the coach? Quite a shallow comment if you look at it from the perspective of "Complete system and structure to develope Test Cricket Performance". :)

Nafis_BD
July 5, 2007, 01:01 PM
I don't know how BD's performance relates to the PCB's coach hunt. I don't really care about Miandad's comments on us cause he couldn't really make a difference to the Pakistani team either and after he left the Pakistani team was actually better not cause of him but cause of Woolmer(R.I.P)!!

abdulrahee
July 5, 2007, 01:19 PM
i think he was misqoted what he actully he say was
"dont waste your money on watmore wast it on me"

he is a person with tons of talent and empty brain

One World
July 5, 2007, 01:21 PM
i think he was misqoted what he actully he say was
"dont waste your money on watmore wast it on me"

he is a person with tons of talent and empty brain

Ok thats kind of an echo of Afridi

Dhakablues
July 5, 2007, 05:41 PM
Barey Miah is always known for his Barey talks,, He shouldnt talk too much about bangladesh batting as he himself was also a specialist Banglaesh batting coach before WC03. He speaks more from emotion than logic, always. Nevertheless, what Bangladesh achieved in the last 4 years is history.. Ask an Indian or an Australian if they will rest their best players against a series with Bangladesh and that would be the answer.

Rabz
July 5, 2007, 06:54 PM
Javed who??
who cares about this ex players and thier more than occasional silly comments.

Zunaid
July 5, 2007, 07:08 PM
Ignore who said it and why he may have said it. Is there some truth to the assertion that Whatmore left nothing of tangible with which we can build for the future? Or that really is not the coach's job - he/she can only work the the tools he is given (players, infrastructure, selection et al).

I was hoping the discussion will focus more on this aspect of his comment but instead, in our own epidermally challenged ways, we get side-tracked.

Ganguly da
July 5, 2007, 07:34 PM
I believe, a coach can only complete half of the task, rest has to be completed by the players... Whatmore did leave a legacy behind...Bd going thru to Super 8s is a huge achievement! He has created this team from scratch, he has shown the world, that you don't need big players like Shane Warne, Brian Lara or Rahul Dravid to win in highly competitive tournaments. He has given this team confidence, and greed of winning.

Yes BD's 1st test series after he left has been a disaster, but then again maybe it's because of the gap that's left behind by him, the relationship between players and the coach, coaching technique and skills, mental mindset of the team. All of these could be interpreted.

plus Miandad's comments are worth 1/2 a penny.

ZaKi
July 5, 2007, 07:45 PM
Miandad ? lolz
he should oil his own machine ;)

MohammedC
July 5, 2007, 07:50 PM
Miandad is soooooooooo desperate for Pak Job

Foozy
July 5, 2007, 08:39 PM
Whle the context of the news item is more about PCB's coach hunt, Miandad did make a comment that makes it relevant to Bangladesh.



The article: Go for strong base than foreign coach: Miandad (http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1108218) - DNA Sports

the comment is BULL... as whatmore worked mainly with the odi of bd... (which we sucked as badly as the tests now... or was even worse)... remember those days with continuous losses... one after the next.. forever..???... well it was dav that stopped that... and rite now... we hav a lot of respect in the odis... bd has really risen!! and it was all thanx to whatmore!!!.. the guy couldnt hav done anythin better than what he already did with such a young and challanged side... he deserves a good name at the very least!! Miandad!!!

cricketboy
July 5, 2007, 09:14 PM
Miandad may have been a good player but his comments always suck and he is a poor coach.

GuruTM
July 5, 2007, 09:19 PM
Whatmore sucks as a coach. Miandad sucks more.

gatekeeper
July 6, 2007, 12:14 AM
Can we stay away from the knee jerk stuff and have a semi intelligent discussion. What he said warrents some thaught.

Tintin
July 6, 2007, 02:10 AM
I'll be the devil's advocate.

Or that really is not the coach's job - he/she can only work the the tools he is given (players, infrastructure, selection et al).In other countries, that is not really coach's job. Outside handling the national team his role is, at the most, as an advisory to the board. But over here, the administrators are inexperienced in what they do (and, if the posters are to believed, incompetent and corrupt to boot). There is little time to experiment with the first class structure, selections, handling of the junior/A teams, or the lower/junior cricket to get things right. A coach with experience, knowledge and the drive could have made important contributions in this area. Whatmore appears to have done nothing.

If I may make a flowery statement, unlike elsewhere, the coach should not just be the coach of the Bangladesh cricket team, but the coach for Bangladesh cricket. But that would be hoping too much. I am unwilling to criticise Whatmore too much on this count because I can't see other coaches doing much better. Eddie Barlow, had he stayed, was one who had the drive, ability and no-nonsense attitude (plus a nice tongue go with it) to get such things done, but hardly any others.

Miandad's intentions aren't good but there is some truth in what he says. Coincidentally or otherwise, the team fell flat just as he left. A good teacher is someone who quickly makes his presence unnecessary and if the pupils still need him to be around after four years, that doesn't speak too highly of him. The attitude of the batsmen are no different from what it was when he took over. There is some improvement, but how much of it is natural evolution and how much is Whatmore's contribution ?

WarWolf
July 6, 2007, 02:23 AM
There is some improvement, but how much of it is natural evolution and how much is Whatmore's contribution ?
Exactly my words. I am grateful to him for the progress of the team in ODI arena. But I still think he didn't give his 100% here as a coach.

There must be some psychological problems in the batsmen's mind. Still there are some technical problems which should have been fixed by working out with them. Feet movement problem is a common thing for bangladeshi batsmen. I see no improvement in this area for last few years. Definitely the previous coach could have done more.

Ahmed_B
July 6, 2007, 02:52 AM
Ignore who said it and why he may have said it. Is there some truth to the assertion that Whatmore left nothing of tangible with which we can build for the future? Or that really is not the coach's job - he/she can only work the the tools he is given (players, infrastructure, selection et al).
Here is what I think about the sequence that actually matters:

School cricket
-
Nationwide spreaded U-15/17/19 Training academies
-
Age group international tours
-
Inter-College/University Cricket (Where have those vanished anyway??)
-
Standard and tough Club-cricket
-
Good-Standard Domestic League
-
Professional formation of A-Team.. and their international exposure
-
Well-thought and consistant selection policy for the National team
-
Appoinment of a Proffessional International coach for considerable period
-
Appoinment of Talented Ex-national players to different levels of the whole coaching-structure
-
Regular performance analysis of the National team and helping the Struggling national players with high-standard trainings... not just trash them when they dont perform.

.......And this cycle has to continue endlessly. In this respect, if we start setting up a process right now.. we will start getting results in not less than 5 years.

And National team High-profile Coach? Well... he holds just about 15-20% value in the whole system.

israr
July 6, 2007, 05:44 AM
Here is what I think about the sequence that actually matters:

School cricket
-
Nationwide spreaded U-15/17/19 Training academies
-
Age group international tours
-
Inter-College/University Cricket (Where have those vanished anyway??)
-
Standard and tough Club-cricket
-
Good-Standard Domestic League
-
Professional formation of A-Team.. and their international exposure
-
Well-thought and consistant selection policy for the National team
-
Appoinment of a Proffessional International coach for considerable period
-
Appoinment of Talented Ex-national players to different levels of the whole coaching-structure
-
Regular performance analysis of the National team and helping the Struggling national players with high-standard trainings... not just trash them when they dont perform.

.......And this cycle has to continue endlessly. In this respect, if we start setting up a process right now.. we will start getting results in not less than 5 years.

And National team High-profile Coach? Well... he holds just about 15-20% value in the whole system.

Just want to know, out of all those above factors you mentioned, which ones of those are not being practised in Bangladesh?

Ahmed_B
July 6, 2007, 05:52 AM
Just want to know, out of all those above factors you mentioned, which ones of those are not being practised in Bangladesh?
Will be quite easier to reply if you ask the reverse question.... i.e. which ones ARE practiced. :)

1) High profile national coach
2) Namesake Domestic league
3) Knee-Jerk Selectors
4) BKSP(read Dhaka)-centered Academy and High-performance projects
5) Occassional sponsor supported talent-hunt programs
6) Dreamy-eye fans with broken hearts

... well... thats about all we have!

akabir77
July 6, 2007, 08:48 AM
Well He coached Pakistan team twice and look what happen to Pak? they were out from S8!!! no left behind legacy there too

Baundule
July 6, 2007, 10:45 AM
His intention is clear and that does not motivate me to go through that article.

Sovik
July 6, 2007, 02:26 PM
who cares about his comment anyway, few days ago he said bill gates would be the best coach..........

Shafin
July 6, 2007, 02:53 PM
who cares about his comment anyway, few days ago he said bill gates would be the best coach..........
:floor::floor:

mij
July 6, 2007, 03:11 PM
pfft typical Miandad comment since he himself, wanted a coaching role. These pakis have always thought low of us.


Agree with you 100%

Tehsin
July 6, 2007, 07:11 PM
Whatmore coached a great SriLanka side to world cup victory. He came highly regarded. We had bits and pieces of success with him as a coach. NOTHING that was consistent and a few good knocks from a volatile bunch of 'talented' players wouldn't have achieved under any nameless coach (except for Mohsin Kamal - he was just rubbish and he still needs to return BCB the salary we paid him WITH interest). Has done nothing noteworthy for Bangladesh cricket as a whole. Probably instilled 'some' self confidence in some of his charges who had already had some good support from the development programs. Simple truth, they were presented to him, he didn't 'discover' them, nor did he enhance their abilities in any shape or form. We have some polite cricketers and they may say otherwise just to be nice. From an outsider's point of view, I don't see any change in BD cricket over the last four years that could be directly contributed to Dave.

As for Miandad, his words carry as much weight as the town drunks rants and rave at the public square (late at night, with only the stray dogs as his audience). Still, pagol o majhe modhdhe ekta duto khati kotha bole fele. :)

nsd3
July 16, 2007, 04:03 AM
Well Whatmore is beaten again - Lawson received appointment from PCB.
Source: http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/pakistan/content/current/story/302010.html

Dhruvo
July 16, 2007, 07:19 AM
Too bad for whatmore .

Aritro
July 16, 2007, 07:26 AM
Nothing Javed Miandad ever says warrants even the slightest bit of scrutiny.

The bloke is a halfwit.

Evolution
July 16, 2007, 07:26 AM
i think we should take Whatmore again for out coaching position. BCB should ask him one more time as he is our kind of our type and he knows what to do.

Dhruvo
July 16, 2007, 07:28 AM
i think we should take Whatmore again for out coaching position. BCB should ask him one more time as he is our kind of our type and he knows what to do.
We had enough of whatmore we need a good technical coach like mcInnes or jimmy siddons.

jahidus200
July 16, 2007, 08:18 AM
i think bangladesh should bring back to whatmore . than we can play better in test.that will be right choice

Humbug
July 16, 2007, 09:12 AM
Nobody cares what Miandad thinks.

Whatmore sucks as a coach.
No he doesn't, he took SL from minnows to world champions, and they never became minnows again. He toughened them up mentally.

Mahmood
July 16, 2007, 10:22 AM
We have to give him some credit for the world cup success. However, is he a good coach for a team like Pakistan or India, not sure.

Aritro
July 16, 2007, 10:56 AM
In addition to winning the World Cup with the Sri Lankans, Whatmore also lead Lancashire to 3 one-day trophies. He's clearly one of the better coaches around.

His impact on Bangladesh is hard to assess because we didn't play much international cricket prior to his arrival and as a result, we don't have much to compare to. It also has to be assumed that much of our improvement under his stewardship was the inevitable result of organic growth.

However, given his pedigree, I think it's fair to assume that many coaches would have done a far worse job.

kalpurush
July 16, 2007, 11:17 AM
We have to give him some credit for the world cup success. However, is he a good coach for a team like Pakistan or India, not sure.

Ditto!...and, he failed to get one of those job...
SL player were more disciplined than those two!!

Dhruvo
July 16, 2007, 11:25 AM
Some of you guys are saying that whatmore should return to bangladesh cricket as a coach but we really dont need him anymore we had enough of him ,we should not see the wc success we should look at the future now we need a technical coach who can correct the mistake's of our players like shahriar nafees's footwork .

Puck
July 16, 2007, 08:14 PM
Nobody cares what Miandad thinks.


No he doesn't, he took SL from minnows to world champions, and they never became minnows again. He toughened them up mentally.

they were not minnows when whatmore had taken charge. they already had the nucleas of a very fine team with several outstanding players.

bangladesh at present does not even possess any player as talented as the worst srilankan of the same period.

Kabir
July 16, 2007, 09:40 PM
they were not minnows when whatmore had taken charge. they already had the nucleas of a very fine team with several outstanding players.

bangladesh at present does not even possess any player as talented as the worst srilankan of the same period.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Gowza
July 16, 2007, 09:50 PM
the discussion about whether SL were minnows or not when whatmore took of is interesting to me. i wasnt a big cricket follower back then so i have no idea myself but my brother did say to me that SL were minnows when they won the world cup in 1996. so i guess for some they were minnows and others they weren't. i'm not sure that bangladesh don't possess any player as talented as the worst sri lankan of that period, imo ashraful is fairly talented and in a better team would be doing much better. but then again i don't know that much about cricket from back in 96. i don't think bangladesh should get whatmore back though, just because the way he handled his leaving could have brought up a bit of bad blood and that's not the sort of environment you want for any elite sports team or sportsperson.

Kabir
July 16, 2007, 10:01 PM
i'm not sure that bangladesh don't possess any player as talented as the worst sri lankan of that period, imo ashraful is fairly talented and in a better team would be doing much better.

That's a reasonable argument. However, you should put him in the following equation:

Talent = ability to play + put mind in the game + play consistently + play under any condition

May be that will unearth some of his issues.

nahaz
July 17, 2007, 05:34 AM
Did Whatmore have any positive effect on the Bangladesh National team?
Yes, he did, but probably not as much as we'd like to.He did get us out of that losing mentality, got us to win after 50+ games,he got us to eventually whitewash Zimbabwe and Kenya.(We won only once against Kenya when he came ,I think).But he did enjoy a fair bit of co-operation from BCB,and players from under-19 teams came to the national team after being looked after by Mc Innes and the like. Everyone agreed the players had talent from day one,but even today Javed Omar can't rotate strike, Aftab can't be consistent and Shahriar Nafees forgot how to bat during the WC.Nafees failing so miserably was partly a failure of Whatmore. But yes,he still probably did better than any coach could have done at that time.And nowadays, every team takes us seriously and does their homework and that's why it's so much harder to beat them.

Should we call him back?
Not under any circumstances.Whatmore taught just about all he could in the last 4 years, and the players would be much better off with someone new.Also, they're bound to remember what he did with respect to the Indian job offers.

Does javed know any more about coaching than anyone in this forum?
No, and his comments were clearly made to help himself get the job.He doesn't know s**t.

Dhruvo
July 17, 2007, 05:45 AM
they were not minnows when whatmore had taken charge. they already had the nucleas of a very fine team with several outstanding players.

bangladesh at present does not even possess any player as talented as the worst srilankan of the same period.
How about ash ,mash,aftab,razzak even sn.

Humbug
July 17, 2007, 08:45 AM
but my brother did say to me that SL were minnows when they won the world cup in 1996. so i guess for some they were minnows and others they weren't.
SL were minnows until 1995. Then they improved and won the WC in 1996 at which time they were anything but minnows.

Dhruvo
July 17, 2007, 08:51 AM
SL were minnows until 1995. Then they improved and won the WC in 1996 at which time they were anything but minnows.
Yes and we will win the 2011 wc ,InshAllah.

Sohel
July 17, 2007, 12:32 PM
JM and BSB need to introspect the value of fading away gracefully. The mouth is not the best place to put one's foot at this age.

Imtiazk
July 17, 2007, 07:36 PM
What more can we expect ? I hope nothing from him.

Beamer
July 17, 2007, 09:33 PM
Does Javed Miandad have any credibility as a person? No. Few weeks ago he was against the appointment of DW citing the non-iprovement of Bangladesh during his tenure. Now, move forward a few weeks, and he is citing Whatmore as a better option than lawson because of our improvement ! what a flip-flop !