PDA

View Full Version : Shahriar Nafees: lack of temperament?


sadi
July 11, 2007, 08:12 AM
Don't get me wrong. This thread is not about bashing him. I am actually kinda disappointed. He looked to be one of the most mature player in the team. Someone who has the temperament to play a big innings if he gets his eye set in the middle. But it is becoming increasingly frustating to see him throwing his wickets now a days. I mean I understand if he is struggling initially or getting out becuase of his lack of feet movement. But getting start few times against Srilanka and not turning it into something big is really frustating.

Ofcourse, I can accuse many other batsmen of our team for the same reason but talking about Shahriar Nafees because we had high expectation from him. We think of him as someone who unlike other batsmen like to play a big innings. I wonder what is missing. Is it his temperament? I can't really blame it on his footwork anymore since he is getting starts regularly but throwing it in the middle overs against Murali or someone else.

SS
July 11, 2007, 08:19 AM
same question that I have no answer. Each time when he scores 30 something, i believe he wants to convert that to 50 by scoring quick runs. I haven't seen him lately, but if he still lacks footwork that unacceptable at this level. But he was scoring and when he scores 25+, he sometimes play those useless stupid shot to get him out. He has to go back to a 'revamped', 'restructured' cricket league and score big to get the confidence back. None of our batsmen can score big (except very few occasions). The way we are going, tommorrow we will be out by lunch and that will again give nothing to our bowlers to fight back. I still don't understand why if SL bats, they make it so easy and scores plenty of runs. I think besides temperament, it is also techniques, and playing longer innings, inability to score singles, shot selection etc. are reasons for our poor batting.

Sohel
July 11, 2007, 08:20 AM
He has needed active rest since the test series against India, period.

Both chacha and bhatija are kicking the dog while it's down. The additional trouble is, bhatija himself is the assaultee is question.

Also, Abir is a victim of our own hype. Objectively speaking, he was a very good Toyota in a team full of Maruti Suzukis and Tempos. He has never been the BMW we all desparately wished him to be. Technically and raw talent-wise he is not in the same class as Ash and Alok, or the Lexus class of the Iqbal brothers, especially Tamim, Aftab and Mushy. But if Orion (Mehrab Hossain Jr.) can become better both in terms of temperament and technique, so can the more talented Abir.

Miraz
July 11, 2007, 08:43 AM
IMO, it is very unnecessary to bring the Chacha-Vatija relationship here. Nafees is an immensely talented cricketer and probably the best talent for Bangladesh except Ashraful and Aftab (they are in a different league).

He is having some bad time but still averaging (20.40) far better than Rajin (15.0), Bashar (10.80), Sakib (12.0)and Mehrab Jr. 7.0) (other top order batsmen). He is getting starts in almost every innings, I am sure he will soon start to convert those starts into big ones.

None other top order batsman has yet challenged his place with consistent performance. If a player in his bad times can average above 20 (which he is averaging), I am sure he will average above 40 inn his better times.

It's true that he should have performed better and should have averaged more than 20 but there is no point picking him when the other top order batsmen played even worse.

mali007
July 11, 2007, 08:48 AM
Initially SN was out of 3rd test. Management decided to drop him as a punishment for his reckless KHOCHA in 2nd test. Some how supermanagement (FARUQUE) from Dhaka pushed him in the last moment and SN did the same STUPIDITY!!! If Aftab and Tamim are out of test for lack of temperament then what kind of temperament is this ??

Tigers_eye
July 11, 2007, 08:50 AM
Don't get me wrong. This thread is not about bashing him. ...

Ofcourse, I can accuse many other batsmen of our team for the same reason but talking about Shahriar Nafees because we had high expectation from him. ...
Sadi,
Can you bold this part please. Thanks.

SN will come good. Unlike someone (a non-performer) in the top order hogging a place.

Miraz
July 11, 2007, 08:51 AM
Initially SN was out of 3rd test. Management decided to drop him as a punishment for his reckless KHOCHA in 2nd test. Some how supermanagement (FARUQUE) from Dhaka pushed him in the last moment and SN did the same STUPIDITY!!! If Aftab and Tamim are out of test for lack of temperament then what kind of temperament is this ??
Too much assumptions. How do you know that initially he was out and later installed from Dhaka? Are you a part of the team management? or team management have made it clear anywhere?

Please don't make up these baseless accusations.

Baundule
July 11, 2007, 08:54 AM
SN is the best batsman we have. I am very very happy with his performance today. He is going to be our Don Bradman.

mali007
July 11, 2007, 08:55 AM
Too much assumptions. How do you know that initially he was out and later installed from Dhaka? Are you a part of the team management? or team management have made it clear anywhere?

Please don't make up these baseless accusations.
From newspapers reports (FROM COLOMBO) which were posted here.

Miraz
July 11, 2007, 08:59 AM
From newspapers reports (FROM COLOMBO) which were posted here.

Unfortunately I haven't seen any news reports containing the info provided by you, and don't take newspaper reports as bible.

sadi
July 11, 2007, 09:05 AM
He is having some bad time but still averaging (20.40) far better than Rajin (15.0), Bashar (10.80), Sakib (12.0)and Mehrab Jr. 7.0) (other top order batsmen). He is getting starts in almost every innings, I am sure he will soon start to convert those starts into big ones.

None other top order batsman has yet challenged his place with consistent performance. If a player in his bad times can average above 20 (which he is averaging), I am sure he will average above 40 inn his better times.

It's true that he should have performed better and should have averaged more than 20 but there is no point picking him when the other top order batsmen played even worse.

Miraz bhai, I guess you missed my point. I can understand if he is not scoring at all. But my issue is he is getting in, scoring 20s and then getting out. This is the characteristic we usually associate with players like Aftab, Ash or other so called batsman with lack of temperament, not with Shahariar Nafees. He was known as someone who plays long innings, not throw his wickets away. Again, I don't agree he is having some bad time. If a batsman have a bad time, usually they get out before getting set, not score back to back 20s couple of time. When a batsman do that, it is either he is losing his concentration after getting set or getting relaxed knowing he did just enough to secure his place for next game.

mali007
July 11, 2007, 09:08 AM
Unfortunately I haven't seen any news reports containing the info provided by you, and don't take newspaper reports as bible.
There is a thread (News: S. Nafees out, Mehrab to open----) . S. Nafees should have been rested like Ashraful for the sake of his future.

sharifk
July 11, 2007, 09:10 AM
temperament or not....or even talented or not when a player is out of form, that's when you use the back up players or the other alternatives.....we sure have iqbal bros and other good openers..

Miraz
July 11, 2007, 09:11 AM
Miraz bhai, I guess you missed my point. I can understand if he is not scoring at all. But my issue is he is getting in, scoring 20s and then getting out. This is the characteristic we usually associate with players like Aftab, Ash or other so called batsman with lack of temperament, not with Shahariar Nafees. He was known as someone who plays long innings, not throw his wickets away. Again, I don't agree he is having some bad time. If a batsman have a bad time, usually they get out before getting set, not score back to back 20s couple of time. When a batsman do that, it is either he is losing his concentration after getting set or getting relaxed knowing he did just enough to secure his place for next game.

Sadi, I haven't missed your point. The highlighted part shows our disagreement. SN is desperately lacking confidence after his poor show in the world cup. He is definitely going through a bad patch and not every player follow a distinctive pattern during the bad patch.

He is a quality player and that's why he is getting starts in almost every occasion but to convert those starts into big ones require form and confidence. SN is temporarily lacking that and I am hopeful he will produce some good scores in the ODI series to return to form.

Bengaliprince176
July 11, 2007, 09:11 AM
SN is a good player, and i dont think theres much of a problem, the Bangladeshi batsman failed as a whole so far. SN just needs one big score to get himslef going. hopefully it will b in this 3rd test

SS
July 11, 2007, 09:12 AM
SN is the best batsman we have. I am very very happy with his performance today. He is going to be our Don Bradman.
Are you being sarcastic...Don Bradman...even we gather all our batsmen techniques we can't be like Bradman. Bradman will score all their runs by himself.

Miraz
July 11, 2007, 09:12 AM
There is a thread (News: S. Nafees out, Mehrab to open----) . S. Nafees should have been rested like Ashraful for the sake of his future.

And it was only Bangladesherkhela which produced the news. I think you are not following BD sport for long time otherwise you would understand the validity of the news produced by only BDKhela.

SS
July 11, 2007, 09:13 AM
SN is a good player, and i dont think theres much of a problem, the Bangladeshi batsman failed as a whole so far. SN just needs one big score to get himslef going. hopefully it will b in this 3rd test
Too late he is already out playing a reckless brainless shot. I am so dissappointed and are ready to see 150 all out tommorrow.

sharifk
July 11, 2007, 09:13 AM
he may be a good player but he is surely not in form.....my feeling is just about when will rediscover his form he will be dropped because he is given too many chances....and that will be a waste..

al Furqaan
July 11, 2007, 09:13 AM
factor in rain delays in this act of indesctretion for SN. i know i sound like im trying to come up with an excuse, but this is real. when hours of play are lost, one gets frustrated.

i also agree, the fact that SN has been our 3rd best batsmen with his struggles, indicates his true skill. at some point talent means little unless realized, and SN with his wants, still is averaging around 20 whilst struggling! SN will come good. believe that.

its really time to look beyond the javeds and bashars. my top replacements for bashar' middle order spot is aftab, sakib, and alok. depending on how tushar does, he should also get a look. i think mehrab jr should be given a serious look at taking JO's spot. we were all impressed by javed's 62 from T1, but i would guess mehrab could do that once every 6-7 innings.

on another note, just saw the slow mo of haba's out: that was a bad call, ball didnt touch anything but some air.

cricket_dorshok
July 11, 2007, 09:17 AM
Miraz bhai, I guess you missed my point. I can understand if he is not scoring at all. But my issue is he is getting in, scoring 20s and then getting out. This is the characteristic we usually associate with players like Aftab, Ash or other so called batsman with lack of temperament, not with Shahariar Nafees. He was known as someone who plays long innings, not throw his wickets away. Again, I don't agree he is having some bad time. If a batsman have a bad time, usually they get out before getting set, not score back to back 20s couple of time. When a batsman do that, it is either he is losing his concentration after getting set or getting relaxed knowing he did just enough to secure his place for next game.
No question that SN is one of the top batsman we have. But polata 1 bosor Zimbabwe er against e valo kheillai....... biya koira fello. ekhon khali bou er kotha mone pore. innings suru kore ai vebe je aj valo na khelle bou boka dibe, r jei na ektu settle hoi omni bouer mukhta mone pore jai, r........................

al Furqaan
July 11, 2007, 09:18 AM
the fact that SN has 5 tons (scored in less than a year) - regardless of the strenght of opposing bowling attacks - proves he has temperement. at least more so than most BD batsmen. he just got frustrated with rajin eating up 29 balls for a duck, and the rain. afterall he is just 23 - oficially even younger.

Shafin
July 11, 2007, 09:33 AM
SN will come back,I'm sure of that,but if he keeps performing,the "Ashraful Dose" might work.

sadi
July 11, 2007, 09:39 AM
I am surprised to see most of the seasoned members failing to see the problem here. They are blaming him getting out to his bad patch when he is clearly throwing it away.

I guess I wasn't very clear in my explanation of the situation. The way I see the situation is he is clearly having bad time since he hasn't played a long innings just yet. But it is different from him being off-form. He is not off-form. When he is there out in the middle, he looks comfortable, looks to be in control and then throws it out. When someone is off-form and he gets out, one can understand but when someone is on form but not converting, situation like this arise.

Shahriar Nafees is averaging in 20s because he is getting the start, not because he is off-form. Look at his performance in the world cup. This is what you call when a batsman is off-form.

Baundule
July 11, 2007, 09:39 AM
Are you being sarcastic...Don Bradman...even we gather all our batsmen techniques we can't be like Bradman. Bradman will score all their runs by himself.

Not really. I told our Bradman. Bradman certainly has a great average. But SN started his career with a boom. Recently, he is just going through a bad patch. But hopefully he is going to get over with it. In today's match, he did well to stand against a collapse like the first two tests. When he saw that we have improved enough, read we are in a position to make more runs than the 62 of the previous test, then he showed his confidence. There is no reason to get intimidated with Murali. He is a real tiger. I am very very happy with his performance.

Dhruvo
July 11, 2007, 09:47 AM
It might be because 21 bochore biye korle kharap khelbe na to ki korbe :lol: .

Baundule
July 11, 2007, 09:49 AM
I am surprised to see most of the seasoned members failing to see the problem here. They are blaming him getting out to his bad patch when he is clearly throwing it away.


sadi chipae porese. ;)
see, we make someone hero, even after scoring 30 runs. Who cares about the situation? Someone scores a 29 and then gives his wicket away and even then you will find people to say "he was bored because his partner gave 20 dot balls". So, it's actually Rajin's fault that SN was out. ;)

Jokes aside, very good post and very good focus on the real problems. Not everyone can get set every day. So, it's unforgivable when a set player gives his wicket away. It means, he has serious problem with his attitude. Test is not for unprofessionals.

Mahmood
July 11, 2007, 09:50 AM
Did Shahriar play good? Yes, but we expect more from him.

Should we drop him for being reckless? No way, we need him.

How do we punish him? Cut his match fee by half.

mali007
July 11, 2007, 09:53 AM
And it was only Bangladesherkhela which produced the news. I think you are not following BD sport for long time otherwise you would understand the validity of the news produced by only BDKhela.
Not only BangladesherKhela, AmarDesh and Ajker Kagoj also reported the same.

BANFAN
July 11, 2007, 10:00 AM
dropping some one for not performing as per expectation is not the only option. Specially if you dont have some one of that class to replace him.

SN i feel, is not reading some of the balls and playing on predetermined shot. He needs to understand a ball perfectly before playing a shot, if you don't understand then better watch and defend/leave. Who will get it in his head.

May be he will understand it himself, sooner is better. That's where a good coach makes a difference.

truetruetiger
July 11, 2007, 10:02 AM
Did Shahriar play good? Yes, but we expect more from him.

Should we drop him for being reckless? No way, we need him.

How do we punish him? Cut his match fee by half.

im sorry mahmood bhai but i cannot agree with the last bit. cutting someones match fee because they played poor (and was stil the top scorer thus far), doesn not make sense - even if he was ricky ponting. (well actualy i wuldn't really mind doing that if it was ricky ponting :-p ).
it would also lower his confidence further, and maybe he won't even be getting the starts he has been having recently

SS
July 11, 2007, 10:09 AM
factor in rain delays in this act of indesctretion for SN. i know i sound like im trying to come up with an excuse, but this is real. when hours of play are lost, one gets frustrated.

i also agree, the fact that SN has been our 3rd best batsmen with his struggles, indicates his true skill. at some point talent means little unless realized, and SN with his wants, still is averaging around 20 whilst struggling! SN will come good. believe that.

its really time to look beyond the javeds and bashars. my top replacements for bashar' middle order spot is aftab, sakib, and alok. depending on how tushar does, he should also get a look.


Agree if we want to consider experience and skillfull batsmen we should started to mold aftab,sakib, alok, TI by sending them with atleast to longer version leagues and A team four day matches more frequently to prepare them for national team's test (unfortunately we have none in next six months!!)

Tigers_eye
July 11, 2007, 10:24 AM
Nafis Iqbal was just like current SN. Got starts most of the time. After the customery 20+ runs he got out. Time and again. We did drop him at the end to teach him a lesson. Then he got injured.

Same case with Aftab. 20+ runs. Supreme control at that time. Then fush. We tagged him as ODI specialist with zero tempartment of playing test innings. I am sure no one forgot that.

This series is almost over. Just another innings left. One month of Domestic cricket in November wouldn't answer anything. We will see same old thing at NZ. Whoever the new selectors (if there is a change) will be, would still select HB, JO, SN and discard NI, AA.

The temporary solution is there. But that lies with BCB. Not the selection committee. Move up the domestic cricket schedule a month earlier in October. That would give some more games (longer version) under these boys belt. We would be in a better position to judge who is in form and who is not. This would make the selectors life a little easier.

To Sadi,
No he is not complacent. He loses concentration at times which becomes the downfall. But he is not happy with his 20 average. He better not be.

sandpiper
July 11, 2007, 10:31 AM
It is really unfortunate that our batsmen feel quite secured with an average around 20.00
whereas Chaminda Vaas has a batting average of 23.54. #:-S :yawn: :cool: :-B :umm: To Sadi,
No he is not complacent. He loses concentration at times which becomes the downfall. But he is not happy with his 20 average. He better not be.

Sohel
July 11, 2007, 10:33 AM
Eagerly looking forward to Beamer, Ehsan, One World and Arito's posts in this thread. Z-Bhai's too, but I don't think he will.

sharifk
July 11, 2007, 10:40 AM
I am surprised to see most of the seasoned members failing to see the problem here. They are blaming him getting out to his bad patch when he is clearly throwing it away.

I guess I wasn't very clear in my explanation of the situation. The way I see the situation is he is clearly having bad time since he hasn't played a long innings just yet. But it is different from him being off-form. He is not off-form. When he is there out in the middle, he looks comfortable, looks to be in control and then throws it out. When someone is off-form and he gets out, one can understand but when someone is on form but not converting, situation like this arise.

Shahriar Nafees is averaging in 20s because he is getting the start, not because he is off-form. Look at his performance in the world cup. This is what you call when a batsman is off-form.

May be we shouldn't get hung up on the semantics here, but what are your defintions for"off-form" and "on form?" The way I see it is when a player isn't performing, he is not on form regardless of the reasons. So I am looking at the scores. I do this because I see shot selection as a skill just like other skills.

If we must analyze the reasons behind the problems, we must do some system thinking here. For that, in a team environment, we must look at the weakest link. And in the current match, SN isn't the weakest link, so this discussion is somewhat looking at just some symptoms instead of looking at the root cause. Yes, SN has some problems at the moment, but we must remove the weakest link first, and then we can focus on the next weakest link. I think it's the system's problem altogether, and it isn't SN's fault. If we had a good system, we would have given SN to correct his actions, shot selections, etc. with the right approach as soon as we had discovered his problems during the WC, and we wouldn't select him for either of the India and Sri Lanka series.

sadi
July 11, 2007, 11:38 AM
May be we shouldn't get hung up on the semantics here, but what are your defintions for"off-form" and "on form?" The way I see it is when a player isn't performing, he is not on form regardless of the reasons. So I am looking at the scores. I do this because I see shot selection as a skill just like other skills.


Good question. I am sure you have played cricket in some level, be it school cricket. If you are a batsman, you exactly know what I am talking about. Sometimes, you feel comfortable in the crease, middle most of the balls and feel like a big score is just around the corner. I call that being in form. On the other hand, when you are off-form, you are uncomfortable in the crease, feel like you are not timing anything well and will get out anytime. Shahriar Nafees is looking comfortable and in total control while in the crease unlike his time during the world cup. In my definition, he is in form but not converting his starts.

Looking at the scorecard doesn't tell you the whole story. A batsman can score a fifty but may still be off-form. He could've edged five balls between slip and gully for fours. We call that lucky fifty. Whether being in form or that shows you the probability of a batsman doing well the next time around.

Beamer
July 11, 2007, 11:38 AM
I am surprised to see most of the seasoned members failing to see the problem here. They are blaming him getting out to his bad patch when he is clearly throwing it away.

I guess I wasn't very clear in my explanation of the situation. The way I see the situation is he is clearly having bad time since he hasn't played a long innings just yet. But it is different from him being off-form. He is not off-form. When he is there out in the middle, he looks comfortable, looks to be in control and then throws it out. When someone is off-form and he gets out, one can understand but when someone is on form but not converting, situation like this arise.

Shahriar Nafees is averaging in 20s because he is getting the start, not because he is off-form. Look at his performance in the world cup. This is what you call when a batsman is off-form.

You are very correct in your explanation and observation.

He was totally out of form in the WC, and to a certain extent, it carried over to the India series. His feet weren't moving back then and he was frequently stuck on the crease chasing anything and everthing near the off-stump in desperate attempts to score a few runs.

Not at all the case in this series. He is far from being off-form. The way he was batting last night as well as in the second innings of First test clearly showed that he has worked on his feet movement and because of it, he was going right behind the line of the ball, moving his feet properly and playing proper cricket shots. Then.bang..moment of indescrition is killing every earlier efforts. He is getting out playing attacking shots, over attacking some would say, and totaly against the run of play. This is more frustrating to watch than someone who is totaly out of sorts.

Sadz
July 11, 2007, 11:46 AM
I think its his temperament, today he came to 29 and decided to go for shots which wasnt really needed and his rush of blood proved that. Maybe he is 1-day material only, but then again he flopped in the world cup. Hope he gets back his form cos average of 20 isnt good enough for him never mind for a player who is a teams possible best batsman.

scorpion32
July 11, 2007, 11:52 AM
Yesterday I watched the game till 48/1 and I was really impressed by SN. He looked so confident and he was really seeing the ball well. Its very disappointing that he threw it away at the end but I think that's how it will be for most of the players of his generation. I can't remember how many times Ash threw it away when he was set. I guess we will have to give him time as I don't see any other player who can replace him now. He has the capability and hopefully he will be among runs soon.
Currently the only player I think is different in terms of nervs and patience is Mushfiq. I am glad that the selectors didn't throw him away after his horrible debut in England few years ago and kept faith in him. I think it would be better if he bats higher up in the batting order because if he is in he will be there for a while and will have a kind of calming effect on the batsman at the other end. Ash wouldn't hit that century that day if Mushfiq was not there.

Sohel
July 11, 2007, 11:54 AM
I'm in total agreement with sadi and Beamer. Starts don't transform themselves into significant scores from an opener at this level by laigga jaibo osmosis. Fluctuating focus, when clearly recognized as a pattern, can be fixed with a change of environment before doing too much psycho-somatic damage.

I think some of us have low expectations and are too easily satisfied with the low and expectations we set for ourselves and our cricketers, and ego rather than reason is the preferred impetus to any solution-oriented thought. Sadly, this only maintains the status quo in most of its principles and forms with obvious results, including continuation of things that trouble us all. Typical growing pains of a puerile cricket culture, irrespective of however "mature" we genuinely believe ourselves to be.

Beamer
July 11, 2007, 12:16 PM
I'm in total agreement with sadi and Beamer. Starts don't transform themselves into significant scores from an opener at this level by laigga jaibo osmosis. Fluctuating focus, when clearly recognized as a pattern, can be fixed with a change of environment before doing too much psycho-somatic damage.

I think some of us have low expectations and are too easily satisfied with the low and expectations we set for ourselves and our cricketers, and ego rather than reason is the preferred impetus to any solution-oriented thought. Sadly, this only maintains the status quo in most of its principles and forms with obvious results, including continuation of things that trouble us all. Typical growing pains of a peurile cricket culture.

Nicely put.

Well, if you look closely, you will see that some people are happy when JO gets a half century, simply because he has overachieved in that instance and quite content with that outcome. I think Rajin is treading the same path painfully despite being technically and mentally much more superior than JO. People expect Rajin to be the temporary 'band aid' to stop the rot and usually ignore the more significant part of batting, which is to score runs. I agree that many players will be better served if they take a leaf out of Rajin's page of patience, but his lack of willingness to even attack once in a while is not worthy of being a top four bastmen in the team. He plays with one gear and everybody knows it. Nobody expects him to score a big hundred even on avg. he faces more balls than anyone in our squad. In another words, a good 44 from Rajin in 190 balls is ' well played ". Low expectations indeed...

Sadz
July 11, 2007, 12:20 PM
Currently the only player I think is different in terms of nervs and patience is Mushfiq

I wouldnt be so sure about that, ok he did ad 80 runs which is really really good and hes is a
player I admire but he also threw away his wicket by returning the ball bowled to him by Murali. maybe you didnt watch the last parts of the highlights.

sadi
July 11, 2007, 12:48 PM
I wouldn't say Mushfiq gave away his wicket. He was just beaten by the flight. Coming back to topic, thanks Beamer for putting it such a nice way. We shouldn't jump to conclusion about him being odi player or Mushfiq as our savior.

I am just trying to investigate the reason behind him keep losing it after a good start when he is one player who should convert those starts. It can't be that he gets satisfied ater scoring 20s. He doesn't have that kind of mentality. It leaves me to believe he is losing his concentration too easily. Both of the times, he tried to hit Murali out of the park. Murali is such a good bowler that one or two loose balls he gives away actually work for him since batsmen are caught unprepared and trying to hit out finally getting something they can score off.

real123
July 11, 2007, 12:50 PM
I think SN is getting his form back soon. Now he is just not getting big scores but he is very confident and his defense also looked great in the 1st day/ test 3.
I also give kudos to Ash to keep him instead of Mehrab. Test is not a place for grooming.



Sadi, I haven't missed your point. The highlighted part shows our disagreement. SN is desperately lacking confidence after his poor show in the world cup. He is definitely going through a bad patch and not every player follow a distinctive pattern during the bad patch.

He is a quality player and that's why he is getting starts in almost every occasion but to convert those starts into big ones require form and confidence. SN is temporarily lacking that and I am hopeful he will produce some good scores in the ODI series to return to form.

rah
July 11, 2007, 01:01 PM
so far he has made good starts in most of his innings this test series but has jus had mad rushes of blood. SN should now afta the tour is ova have sessions wiv a good rekown sports phsycologist(howeva u spell dat) and try on work out his problem. truthfully i fink he will be best suited to da longer version of the game batting at 5 or 6

SS
July 11, 2007, 01:08 PM
'kothin' recent posts from astute members of BC.
Like the posts of Sohel, Beamer, Sadi ...
hehe Rajin is used as 'Band Aid' to stop the rot..nicely put.
Also the fact that SN is not that type to score 20 and 30 runs and then get out, but definitely he is rushing somewhere in his innings to score fast to give himself confidence and trying to prove all of us his worth in our team. Still can't forgive both of them (Rajin,SN) to stay there little longer to end the first day (even cricinfo mentions , "Nafees, who looked impressive, threw away his wicket, giving Sri Lanka the upper hand. ")

sharifk
July 11, 2007, 01:22 PM
Good question. I am sure you have played cricket in some level, be it school cricket. If you are a batsman, you exactly know what I am talking about. Sometimes, you feel comfortable in the crease, middle most of the balls and feel like a big score is just around the corner. I call that being in form. On the other hand, when you are off-form, you are uncomfortable in the crease, feel like you are not timing anything well and will get out anytime. Shahriar Nafees is looking comfortable and in total control while in the crease unlike his time during the world cup. In my definition, he is in form but not converting his starts.

Looking at the scorecard doesn't tell you the whole story. A batsman can score a fifty but may still be off-form. He could've edged five balls between slip and gully for fours. We call that lucky fifty. Whether being in form or that shows you the probability of a batsman doing well the next time around.

Thanks for clarifying. I now know your and probably many others' definition of the "off form." However, in system thinking, the "off form" is when a player is playing below his average capability for whatever reasons. So the scores do tell story even though if a single score doesn't. We must look into the patterns and compare the current to his capable average to identify whether a player is on or off form. Therefore, just looking at comfortable for a few minutes or not shouldn't be the only factor to identify a player's on form because ultimately talents and that comfortableness need to be converted to score. To do this, each of the related variables needs to be treated as element or skill. And if one variable such as confidence or another one, which may be a dependent variable, then lacking of one variable skill can lead to bad score. This way, even a player may look good in one area, but he will still be failing to score big. So, as long as SN isn't performing to the level, for which he has been selected in the team, he is still going through bad patch, whether it's for temperament or another reason.

Murad
July 11, 2007, 01:36 PM
What annoyed them most was Nafees's attitude as it was learned that he defended his tendency of playing too many shots during the team meeting. Many were irritated by his arrogance, as they believed that confidence is good but overconfidence always invites trouble, a problem that was found in Hannan Sarker previously

Nafees however said that he went for the sweep shot to release the pressure against Muttiah Muralitharan.

"It's really frustrating the way I got out after making another good start. Actually I struggle to defend against Murali so I went for a sweep shot which was ultimately mistimed," he explained.

But the fact was that he failed to pay back his captain's confidence on him in his first challenge.

DS (http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/07/12/d70712040130.htm)

SS
July 11, 2007, 01:52 PM
SN arrogance/overconfidence = Hannan's arrogance/overconfidence
Hannan defended his three ducks in first ball in three tests back to back!!!!How???
SN better be careful..hope he doesn't take Hannan's path!

DJ Sahastra
July 11, 2007, 01:52 PM
Did Shahriar play good? Yes, but we expect more from him.

Should we drop him for being reckless? No way, we need him.

How do we punish him? Cut his match fee by half.

The right question "Is there an option?". And i think no. And that's the only reason why he is still playing.

Beamer
July 11, 2007, 01:56 PM
I wouldn't say Mushfiq gave away his wicket. He was just beaten by the flight. Coming back to topic, thanks Beamer for putting it such a nice way. We shouldn't jump to conclusion about him being odi player or Mushfiq as our savior.

I am just trying to investigate the reason behind him keep losing it after a good start when he is one player who should convert those starts. It can't be that he gets satisfied ater scoring 20s. He doesn't have that kind of mentality. It leaves me to believe he is losing his concentration too easily. Both of the times, he tried to hit Murali out of the park. Murali is such a good bowler that one or two loose balls he gives away actually work for him since batsmen are caught unprepared and trying to hit out finally getting something they can score off.

Well..bring in the Murali factor at that point.

By his own admission, he has difficulty facing Murali, and that might be one reason why he seems to be perturbed when Murali comes into operate. By the time Murali comes in, he has reached the 30 mark and with apaprent ease. Situation changes for him when Murali is in. So, in his mind, his approach is to attack him since he is not able to pick him. What he is not doing is not attacking him playing by the merit. Instead, he is trying to buy runs with one particular shot that gets him runs against spinners- sweep or slog sweep. In each case, he has failed.

In his first trip to SL a few years back, he was forced to play in the middle order when JO and NI opened. Guess what hapened? He failed big time. He came to the crease with Murali in operation already and got out cheaply save one 50 in one innings. His quality is there, his form is back, his feet are moving alright, but as soon as the road block named Murali is thrown in front of him, he is trying to hurdle over it, instead of navigating through or around it. Pure mental war here...

SS
July 11, 2007, 02:00 PM
Another nice observation by Beamer
Murali factor, Malinga factor creating mental block. But credits go to the bowler for creating such pressure to the batsmen. I guess that's why they are worldclass. On the other hand our bowlers totally failed to create that pressure, not even to their tailenders!!

scorpion32
July 11, 2007, 02:05 PM
I wouldnt be so sure about that, ok he did ad 80 runs which is really really good and hes is a
player I admire but he also threw away his wicket by returning the ball bowled to him by Murali. maybe you didnt watch the last parts of the highlights.

I don't think he threw away his wicket by rush of blood. He misjudged the ball after almost 4-5 hours of play. On many occasions he was seen calming Ash after Ash got frustrated. And remember its only his 3rd or 4th match. He is way above other players in terms of patience and he can be aggresive at times too. But I agree with you its too early to tell if he will be able to maintain it in the future. I will keep my fingers crossed.

riad
July 11, 2007, 02:07 PM
Its laughable to compare SN's ave to Sakib/Mehrab [played only few games]
Let them play against minnows like minnow bashing SN [except one 100 against Aus ... i wonder how that happened].
SN 's foot is always pegged to the wicket. No movement whatsoever. If not his chacha he would be out of the team long time ago when we stopped playing minnows.

:sick:

IMO, it is very unnecessary to bring the Chacha-Vatija relationship here. Nafees is an immensely talented cricketer and probably the best talent for Bangladesh except Ashraful and Aftab (they are in a different league).

He is having some bad time but still averaging (20.40) far better than Rajin (15.0), Bashar (10.80), Sakib (12.0)and Mehrab Jr. 7.0) (other top order batsmen). He is getting starts in almost every innings, I am sure he will soon start to convert those starts into big ones.

None other top order batsman has yet challenged his place with consistent performance. If a player in his bad times can average above 20 (which he is averaging), I am sure he will average above 40 inn his better times.

It's true that he should have performed better and should have averaged more than 20 but there is no point picking him when the other top order batsmen played even worse.

scorpion32
July 11, 2007, 02:10 PM
In his first trip to SL a few years back, he was forced to play in the middle order when JO and NI opened. Guess what hapened? He failed big time. He came to the crease with Murali in operation already and got out cheaply save one 50 in one innings. His quality is there, his form is back, his feet are moving alright, but as soon as the road block named Murali is thrown in front of him, he is trying to hurdle over it, instead of navigating through or around it. Pure mental war here...

Then how could he play so well against Warne? Was that century just by pure luck? Is he only uncomfortable against Murali?

Murad
July 11, 2007, 02:11 PM
Its laughable to compare SN's ave to Sakib/Mehrab [played only few games]
Let them play against minnows like minnow bashing SN [except one 100 against Aus ... i wonder how that happened].
SN 's foot is always pegged to the wicket. No movement whatsoever. If not his chacha he would be out of the team long time ago when we stopped playing minnows.

:sick:

right you are, Miraz bhai's comparison him with Mehrab Jr and Sakib is very unfair to them.. They played only 2 innings each... Nafees played 5 innings...

And to everyone here (those who thinks Faruque is Nafee's Chacha).. Faruque is SN's khalato Bhai (cousin)

scorpion32
July 11, 2007, 02:17 PM
Its laughable to compare SN's ave to Sakib/Mehrab [played only few games]
Let them play against minnows like minnow bashing SN [except one 100 against Aus ... i wonder how that happened].

:sick:

I know how that happened. My eyes were glued to the screen and it was one of the most entertaining innings apart from the innings of Ash on different occasions. Also just don't ignore his innings against Zimbabwe. 10 other players also played in those games and they didn't score 1000 runs in a year. So you can't just say for sure that Sakib/Mehrab would do well against Zimbabwe. May be they would, maybe they won't. That does't make SN a worse player. He played a lot of bad innings recently so he can be replaced if there is an alternative. But do we have an alternative at his position?

Beamer
July 11, 2007, 02:22 PM
Then how could he play so well against Warne? Was that century just by pure luck? Is he only uncomfortable against Murali?

How? He swept and swept Warne to his century, his favorite mode of shot against spinners. It works for him ( in his mind ) and worked against Warne. Also, for a lefty, a right hand leg spinner like Warne offers him better value for the sweep shots as he can play with the spin. Besides, Warne was off color that day and his line was poor and SN picked him up at ease. Murali's deliveries are a mixture of leg/off spin for him with immaculate line and control. Sweeping him religiously is dangerous, unless you are supremely confident of your ability. He will be better off to use the method that Rahim and Ash employed to tackle him and noted that in another thread..

His century vs Aus was by no means because of pure luck...

Omio
July 11, 2007, 02:26 PM
I think he cant take too much pressure,
and this is his last chance, He shouldn't ruin this chance like that.

SS
July 11, 2007, 02:28 PM
Murali will become the most successful bowlers against BD tommorrow and till the day he will play against us! Sad but it's true..gota accept it.

sadi
July 11, 2007, 02:35 PM
Well..bring in the Murali factor at that point.

By his own admission, he has difficulty facing Murali, and that might be one reason why he seems to be perturbed when Murali comes into operate. By the time Murali comes in, he has reached the 30 mark and with apaprent ease. Situation changes for him when Murali is in. So, in his mind, his approach is to attack him since he is not able to pick him. What he is not doing is not attacking him playing by the merit. Instead, he is trying to buy runs with one particular shot that gets him runs against spinners- sweep or slog sweep. In each case, he has failed.

In his first trip to SL a few years back, he was forced to play in the middle order when JO and NI opened. Guess what hapened? He failed big time. He came to the crease with Murali in operation already and got out cheaply save one 50 in one innings. His quality is there, his form is back, his feet are moving alright, but as soon as the road block named Murali is thrown in front of him, he is trying to hurdle over it, instead of navigating through or around it. Pure mental war here...

That explains it all. But what I don't understand is how could he try to sweep a ball way outside off stump? Intimidated I guess.

SS
July 11, 2007, 02:42 PM
That explains it all. But what I don't understand is how could he try to sweep a ball way outside off stump? Intimidated I guess.
Agree, then it's not just temperment, it is also about lack of technique facing quality bowlers. He was experiencing problem defending him, on nets he faces likes of Rafique and Razzaq who are not threating like Murali. If it is happening for one batsmen, we can say that's the batsmen temperment problem and inability to stay at crease. But almost all our batters are doing the same thing, trying to play too many strokes without realizing the merit of the ball and ofcoure the bowler. Cricket standard and more practice will hopefully eliminate these, but BCB failed to do it. They didn't reorganize the cricket structure and improve the standard, even if they make 'spin friendly' pitches how many of our spin bowlers are worldclass, and now they are talking about bringing international class bowlers. BCB didn't bring batting coach, practically besides sending team to tours and paying the coach, BCB failed tremendously with so much budget and money in hand. This is the fault of our system, fault of our management.

Sillypoint
July 11, 2007, 03:12 PM
IMO it is the temperament that's behind SN's early demises in Test matches. He seems to be in good notch in this series, but easily falls to traps set up by the opposition. Murali invites him with a loppa ball (read flighted delivery) and he tries to get it over the head of the players as if to show that you dare not send me a loppa ball again or else.... Got out trying to flick it fine (one of his typical shots which gets him out and well noted by opposition strategists) and getting out in similar fashion in the previous match. He is trying to play aggresive, but without playing carefully and by the book (ketabi dhong) in Tests, you can score a few quick runs but will get out soon.

SN slowly but surely becoming a typical ODI player only....what a waste of potential it would be then! Can't anybody help him adopt?

mali007
July 11, 2007, 04:00 PM
DS (http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/07/12/d70712040130.htm)

Thank you for posting the Daily Star report about SN's ATTITUDE and ARROGANCE with the management and media.

cricketboy
July 11, 2007, 06:02 PM
Nafees shoudnt have said he struggles to defend against Murali in public.

DAC
July 11, 2007, 07:36 PM
SN’s recent inability to carry on an inning for big score may be attributed to his mental/physical fatigue which can be a result from lack of physical training lately. Pure speculation on my part though. A task master like RM will take care of that. We just need to have patience and hire the right guy.

And I wouldn’t pay much attention to DS report. After everytime we do badly, they tend to focus on one guy, be that be a player or management, and try to make him the scapegoat.

Hopefully SN scores big in second inning.

Murad
July 11, 2007, 07:42 PM
SN’s recent inability to carry on an inning for big score may be attributed to his mental/physical fatigue which can be a result from lack of physical training lately. Pure speculation on my part though. A task master like RM will take care of that. We just need to have patience and hire the right guy.

And I wouldn’t pay much attention to DS report. After everytime we do badly, they tend to focus on one guy, be that be a player or management, and try to make him the scapegoat.

Hopefully SN scores big in second inning.

Not only DS but all the newspapers reported the same....

cricket_king
July 11, 2007, 07:54 PM
I don't think everyone watched him yesterday. He was playing very well. Nothing like the way we saw him play in the world cup. He was very solid and knew exactly what he was doing until that last moment.

Trust me I havent seen him play that well from the very start of an innings in a long time. He will score big. I assure you. Just wish everyone could've watched him.

Zobair
July 11, 2007, 08:18 PM
I watched the whole innings...and he looked in glorious touch...the way he handled malinga and the rest fo the seamers was just awesome. Contrast that to Belim!!! The man had no clue!!! And we are talking about Nafees's last chance. Talk about perspective!

Nafees obviously can't pick Murali...and his philosophy seems to be (I believe he said as much) that Murali will take wickets regardless ..might as well try and make some runs. Rajin was a case in point! Sheesh! to get out on a duck after blocking out so many balls...Nafees is an excellent exponent of the slog sweep...he can take the ball on the full from outside off and sweep it with real power. But sweeping Warne where he is sweeping with the spin and sweeping against Murali, against the spin, is a completely different proposition. He can still sweep Murali's doosra, which is Murali's wicket-taking ball against lefties but he needs to work harder at picking the doosra.

During the world cup Nafees was really tentative against the seaming and swinging ball...he has obviously worked very hard on his technique...and the result was to be seen in the way he played Malinga's 140K swinging deliveries...yorkers and bouncers. He just needs to put in similar thought and application to the way he plays spinners.

The ball that he got out to...I thought the ball was there to be hit...only that he should have looked to drive it along the ground instead of looking to whack the ball over cover.

SS
July 11, 2007, 09:18 PM
Thanks Mr. Zobair...i am little bit more convinced now after reading your post..indeed he worked hard to gain form...but we all want him to work harder to become better.

Rifat
July 11, 2007, 09:32 PM
SN is the best batsman we have. I am very very happy with his performance today. He is going to be our Don Bradman.

yes, we should be very happy given our poor performance from the first two innings... he shall do better and inshallah he will, as fans we should support our tigers to the best of our ability (sometimes i even do not listen to my own words, but now i am happy and with happiness this team will bring success inshallah)

Nafis_BD
July 11, 2007, 10:31 PM
The ball that he got out to...I thought the ball was there to be hit...only that he should have looked to drive it along the ground instead of looking to whack the ball over cover.

Yes that was my thought as well and if he really wanted to hit it I think he should have came down the track or something. Thanks for the explanation Zobair bhaiya!!

Baundule
July 12, 2007, 02:48 AM
I told you guys, SN is our best batsman. He is our Don. The scorecard advocates for my claim ;)

Dhruvo
July 12, 2007, 08:08 AM
SN is a great batsmen but he does'nt have the form of 2006.

jahidus200
July 12, 2007, 08:37 AM
he is good cricketr just need more patient . he is good opener in bangladesh team for test and odi.

tonoy
July 12, 2007, 08:39 AM
SN the highest scorer. take that all you critics!!! ha ha in your face!!!!!!!!! wohooo!!

SS
July 12, 2007, 08:41 AM
The way all batted clueless against Murali...then all lack temperment. Not just him.
We also lack certain techniques and ofcourse we don't practice against quality spinners like Murali and pacers like Vaas,Malinga. And all these SL players have more experience playing in very good first-class cricket leagues List A matches comparing to our players, who plays more international matches and use it to gain "experience". Ridiculous strucutre.

rah
July 12, 2007, 03:51 PM
afta seeing da higlights nafeees looks in decent touch