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al Furqaan
July 11, 2007, 10:49 AM
where does murali's doosra pitch most of the time? the off break, given muralis ability to rip it, prolly usually pitches well outside off stump. if the doosra pitches at the same line, and turns as much, it wouldn't make much sense. so does murali pitch his doosra more around off, or around middle and off? that would make the most sense.

given that, why is it that our batsmen with the exception of ashraful and perhaps mushy and SN completely fail to read the doosra? with a bowler of murali's calibre, wouldn't it be safe to assume that generally if murali bowls on a leg side line, there is a reason for it i.e. the ball will turn the other way.

as a person who has never really played much real cricket, this seems quite basic to me, and maybe i'm missing something which is cricketing common sense, but please help me to understand. thanks.

Baundule
July 11, 2007, 10:53 AM
Muralis wrist actions are also different for normal deliveries and doosra.

Tigers_eye
July 11, 2007, 10:55 AM
Since it's all about money and BCB has enough of it, in coming domestic season get him and pay a whole lot more than the county and bring him to our league. As a player, as a coach, as an advisor anything and everything. From there on the future muralis of the world would be dud-bhat to our batsmen.

While we are at it, get Tait or Bond or Brett Lee with him. 3 months of their time will allow us to bash SA again, this time at home.

Miraz
July 11, 2007, 10:56 AM
al Furqqan, unfortunately It's not that straightforward. Murali pitches the ball in the same spot and one turn towards the batsman while the doosra either maintains the line or turns the opposite way.

It's next to impossible to pick doosra from the line of delivery. You have to look at the bowling grip and style of release and that's how some batsmen are playing Murali with relative ease.

I have to say even without doosra Murali bowls in an impeccable and intimidating line with big turns. That's enough for a good number of batsman.

SS
July 11, 2007, 10:58 AM
hmm good question...I hope we can view some of the clips and may be few bowling experts from the forum can give a better answer to it.
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:6OaYxJQaK1zMZM:http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41953000/gif/_41953260_doosra_416.gif (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41953000/gif/_41953260_doosra_416.gif&imgrefurl=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/skills/4174244.stm&h=220&w=416&sz=7&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=6OaYxJQaK1zMZM:&tbnh=66&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddoosra%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3D en)http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:NXPud3Ct_cBVaM:http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/webpics/Doosra.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/webpics/Doosra.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.answers.com/topic/doosra&h=170&w=200&sz=8&hl=en&start=5&tbnid=NXPud3Ct_cBVaM:&tbnh=88&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddoosra%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3D en)http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:0_nztMHQA1ThyM:http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41002000/gif/_41002445_off_break_doosra_416.gif (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41002000/gif/_41002445_off_break_doosra_416.gif&imgrefurl=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/4394559.stm&h=216&w=416&sz=13&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=0_nztMHQA1ThyM:&tbnh=65&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddoosra%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3D en)

Surfer
July 11, 2007, 11:24 AM
al Furqqan, unfortunately It's not that straightforward. Murali pitches the ball in the same spot and one turn towards the batsman while the doosra either maintains the line or turns the opposite way.

It's next to impossible to pick doosra from the line of delivery. You have to look at the bowling grip and style of release and that's how some batsmen are playing Murali with relative ease.

I have to say even without doosra Murali bowls in an impeccable and intimidating line with big turns. That's enough for a good number of batsman.

Well said Miraz. As an RH batsman, when a off spinner bowls to me and pitches around the stumps, I have to be careful about the following possibilities:
1. He bowled a normal off spinner with low spin on it. In that case it might head for the pads. Thats a tempting delivery and the fielders at leg slip and short leg are already waiting.
2. He bowled a flipper- the one that goes straight. Very difficult delivery to deal with
3. The doosra is coming in
4. He misfired the ball and its a normal big turner.

You can rule out the 4th possibility in case of Murali but even then there are three deadly deadly possibilities when the ball is pitching close to the stumps. Like Baundale pointed out, Murali's wrist action for the doosra is different from the normal off spinner.....though its not very easy to pick. But he has two flippers- in one the wrist action resembles the doosra and in another the wrist action resembles the normal off spinner. Thats where he is so difficult.

The batsmen who are wont to reading the spin in the air play Murali better than those who judge by wrist action.

Sohel
July 11, 2007, 11:38 AM
Muralis wrist actions are also different for normal deliveries and doosra.

The key point. Thank you Baundule ... :)

"Muttiah Muralitharan is the greatest ever exponent of this type of delivery" - Wikipedia on Murali's doosra.

Murali is double-jointed, a genetic anomaly which allows extra jerk and rip during release. Simply put, he can bend his wrist all the way, both ways, with incredible results. Add this particular enhancement, as well as his bent elbow, and intelligent trap setting to the traditional techniques, you find yourself at the wrong end of an incessant variation of deliveries only he is in control of. Now think of this and add it to the following excerpts from Wikipedia, what you have is nothing short of inevitable death for most batsmen -

"Technique

The bowler delivers the ball with the same finger action as a normal off break, but cocks the wrist so the back of the hand faces towards the batsman. This gives the ball spin in the opposite direction to an off break, causing it to spin from the leg side to the off side to a right-handed batsman.

The doosra is the off-spinner's equivalent of the leg-spinner's googly, which spins in the opposite direction to the leg spinner's stock ball. In principle it is possible for a left-arm orthodox spinner (whose action mirrors that of an off-spinner) to bowl the doosra, which in this case would turn from off to leg. This has not yet been seen in international cricket, although the England left-armer Monty Panesar claims to have bowled it in domestic matches."

"Muttiah Muralitharan

Muralitharan's doosra was the subject of an official report by match referee Chris Broad during Australia's tour of Sri Lanka in 2004, for illegal straightening of the arm at the elbow during the bowling action. Subsequent biomechanical tests conducted at the University of Western Australia in Perth showed that Muralitharan was straightening his arm by angles of up to 10 degrees when bowling doosras, well outside the International Cricket Council acceptable guideline of 5 degrees for spin bowlers. Muralitharan was subsequently instructed by Sri Lanka Cricket not to bowl the doosra in international cricket. In November 2004, the International Cricket Council conducted more research into illegal bowling actions and found that many bowlers whose actions were considered legitimate were actually transgressing the rules. A rule change was proposed and accepted at a meeting of ICC chief executives in early 2005, stating that any bowler may straighten their arm up to 15 degrees, and Murali's doosra once again became a legal delivery.

In February 2006, in an attempt to silence the Australian crowds and their 'no ball' chants, Muralitharan took another test at the University of Western Australia, which saw all of his deliveries deemed legal, including the doosra."

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doosra

Dhruvo
July 11, 2007, 11:48 AM
His action makes him a good spinner but without it he will just be a normal off spinner.

Beamer
July 11, 2007, 11:58 AM
Well..people who play him better than others usualy show more 'chutzpah' in their approach to him. If you are taking the approach of only defense, it will do you no good, and he will settle in real nice and easy. He will pry you out sooner than later. No question about that. Judging the lengths of his delivery is very important as he rarely strays, but the gifted ones can detect it and take appropriate measures. Feet movement then becomes very important. If you have positive intent ( not crazy intents ) you can unsettle him just as any bowlers. Ash and Rahim demonstrated clearly in the last test. Both used their feet well to suffocate his spin when pitched slighly up, or when he flighted, both danced to the pitch of the ball and put him away to the boundary. Also, one must play near the body to minimize a dismissal chance. The most imporant aspect to score against him is to remain pro-active within the bounds of technical correctness..

Sohel
July 11, 2007, 12:04 PM
Well..people who play him better than others usualy show more 'chutzpah' in their approach to him. If you are taking the approach of only defense, it will do you no good, and he will settle in real nice and easy. He will pry you out sooner than later. No question about that. Judging the lengths of his delivery is very important as he rarely strays, but the gifted ones can detect it and take appropriate measures. Feet movement then becomes very important. If you have positive intent ( not crazy intents ) you can unsettle him just as any bowlers. Ash and Rahim demonstrated clearly in the last test. Both used their feet well to suffocate his spin when pitched slighly up, or when he flighted, both danced to the pitch of the ball and put him away to the boundary. Also, one must play near the body to minimize a dismissal chance. The most imporant aspect to score against him is to remain pro-active within the bounds of technical correctness..

Very true, he needs to be "out-thought" and "out-judged" with the front foot forward, before those day 3 roughs come into play to make matters infinitely worse.

Beamer
July 11, 2007, 12:22 PM
Also, if you choose to play off your back foot all the time, you are as good as dead.

al Furqaan
July 11, 2007, 01:04 PM
rajin got smoked cuz he just defended...

Sohel
July 11, 2007, 01:05 PM
rajin got smoked cuz he just defended...

Impossible to say it any better than that.

rah
July 11, 2007, 01:06 PM
his action is good for off spin bowling but doesnt make him a normal spinna or and easy bowla to copy and gimmik

scorpion32
July 11, 2007, 02:35 PM
Well..people who play him better than others usualy show more 'chutzpah' in their approach to him.

What's 'chutzpah'? Am I forgetting Bangla?:(

layperson
July 11, 2007, 02:44 PM
What's 'chutzpah'? Am I forgetting Bangla?:(

Chutzpah is an english word my friend. :)

scorpion32
July 11, 2007, 02:53 PM
Chutzpah is an english word my friend. :)

Thanks layperson. :-)

But the meaning is "The state or quality of being impudent or arrogantly self-confident". Would that be a good technique against Murali? Hmmmm......

Murad
July 11, 2007, 02:59 PM
two back to back duck for rajin.. whats wrong with him??? We should get a better replacement for him.. he can't score runs..can't take singles.. hes so depensive.. we need a player at #3/4 who can rotate the strikces and make runs with singles not just depensive like him... too depensive is not good for test matches... it gives the upper hand to the fielding side....

we need nasirudding faroque whos almost 24 now.. and played 27 first class matches.. he could be a perfect man for the 3rd position in batting...

Beamer
July 11, 2007, 03:02 PM
Chutzpah is an english word my friend. :)

It's Yiddish word actually.

layperson
July 11, 2007, 03:03 PM
Thanks layperson. :-)

But the meaning is "The state or quality of being impudent or arrogantly self-confident". Would that be a good technique against Murali? Hmmmm......

More than a technique it is a state of mind or your attitude and I think a positive confident and to an extent arrogant attitude would be helpful in coping with murali. :) Thats my take on it, but lets hear it from Beamer bhai the original exponent of the word.

layperson
July 11, 2007, 03:05 PM
It's Yiddish word actually.


You lost me there. :)

Beamer
July 11, 2007, 03:05 PM
More than a technique it is a state of mind or your attitude and I think a positive confident and to an extent arrogant attitude would be helpful in coping with murali. :) Thats my take on it, but lets hear it from Beamer bhai the original exponent of the word.

Can't say it any better, Layperson :notworthy:

sandpiper
July 11, 2007, 03:08 PM
exactly my point of view on facing Murali. :notworthy:
More than a technique it is a state of mind or your attitude and I think a positive confident and to an extent arrogant attitude would be helpful in coping with murali. :)

bharat
July 11, 2007, 03:50 PM
The Indian batsmen who have had fair sucess against him in tests..(if I am not wrong Murali has his "worst" record agaisnt India) try to read him through the air and ofcourse through the release ..but this unconventional way of reading it in the air works good for bowlers like Murali who has a tremendous wrsit speed.Reading it at the time of delivery will work with most of the bowlers but not Murali.

Try to read it through the pitch ..well you are dead meat ...

SMHasan
July 12, 2007, 08:17 AM
Attitude, as already said by the others is one of the main key to play Murali. Brian Lara showed how to deal with him when WI toured SL back in 2002. I think Lara is the best batsmen who played Murali well. Lara showed how your footwork should be against him. Quick.

SS
July 12, 2007, 08:45 AM
basic question for me looking at successive failures ..."bat dorte jane era" comn 50 over jodi bat na korte pare ki hobe eder.

betaar
July 12, 2007, 11:02 AM
Against any spinner, picking the wrist action as well as getting to the pitch of the ball is a must for any batsmen. Of course, a bowler like Murali will constantly out think the batsmen; but if the basic is done right then the possibilities are less.
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But then again, when it comes to our failure, it's not just Murali’s ability alone that causes problem for our batsmen; it's the combination of his ability and the inability of our batsmen. I know we all are so hung up on Murali, but I see our batsmen failing against almost all other spinners, in fact any bowler. Our batsmen do not pose the temperament to face any bowler for more than an hour. Just look at this new SL kid, DeSilva, he looks so harmless but was able to pick up couple of wickets. So Murali or no Murali, the story is all the same.<o:p></o:p>