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Electrequiem
September 25, 2007, 01:07 AM
I just want to express my disbelief at how discourteous the President of Columbia University had been to a foreign leader.

From the very getgo, the allegedly liberal University's president doused Ahmedinejad in a negative limelight (once even analogizing him with Hitler), thus generously coating the student body in a thick layer of subjectivity. He called Ahmedinejad a "petty and cruel dictator" and his comments about the holocaust rendered him the label of "brazenly provocative or astonishingly uneducated." He then proceeded to herald some of the worst misquotes in the history of our time and accused Ahmedinejad of seeking to destroy Israel (that whole "wipe israel off the map" thing is not true ... http://youtube.com/watch?v=4mScWWtRfGQ)...

I probably can go and on and on about how much I am frustrated with such hypocritical and ignorant attitude (especially this one coming from an Ivy League)...but I am sleepy. Let me know how you guys feel about this.

Cheers.

ammark
September 25, 2007, 03:24 AM
I was sleepy too when they aired it live. I fell asleep since ahmedinajad was beating about the bush initially about knowledge science and enlightenment. Oh, and I'm in BD now... so no youtube either. Gonna read up on this instead.

chinaman
September 25, 2007, 03:33 AM
If I'm not mistaken, Lee C. Bollinger, president of the Columbia University, teaches free speech. Perhaps, he took the liberty and spirit of free speech to say whatever he said and how he said it.

I find his comments exceedingly distasteful and repugnant. An accomplished teacher should be articulate enough to pass on even the harshest of messages like a gentleman. If the Iranian leader is brazenly provocative or astonishingly uneducated, as he put it, he himself proved to be no better either.

Alien
September 25, 2007, 03:44 AM
Columbia President Bollinger Introduces Ahmadinejad


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Alien
September 25, 2007, 04:02 AM
I wonder why on earth does he come to NY. UN head quarters should be located in a neutral country like Switzerland or country that are rather shunned from world politics. This is totally rubbish.

I am no fan of this Ahmadinejad, but I don't understand why he goes there for the sake of being humiliated like a dog.

As for Bollinger, he is a prime example of ignorant fools who, amongst his million mind boggling question couldn't ask the very question: why his Columbia students go to Iraq in first place, why his country support Israel 24/7 and why they run torture cells in Guantanamo and have audacity to question other nation's human rights.

cricman
September 25, 2007, 05:45 AM
Q & A
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cricman
September 25, 2007, 06:18 AM
Ahmadinejad was great, Murdoch(Owns Fox, Sky and NYpost) and Post can say he's a mad man, but just by listening to his speech, he is a very smart man and the Students in Columbia now know that too

I was sleepy too when they aired it live. I fell asleep since ahmedinajad was beating about the bush initially about knowledge science and enlightenment. Oh, and I'm in BD now... so no youtube either. Gonna read up on this instead.

I read some BS that he was booed out of the Stage, when in reality he got a standing ovation. The media in this country really got me thinking now.

Rubu
September 25, 2007, 08:16 AM
Looks like, an effort to make a fool out of Iranian president did not go too well.

Good or bad, he is a smart man.

Alien
September 25, 2007, 09:25 AM
This whole episode shows how strong influence the Jewish groups/lobbyist have in US and no wonder this whole world is such a screwed up place.

PoorFan
September 25, 2007, 10:21 AM
For last few years, I got the feeling that highly reputed US university intellectuals becoming more and more 'untagged' diplomat, politicians! seems more naked and aggressive than so called BD university intellectuals every now and then. Couple of days ago Mrs. Rice reacted furious over IAEA president Elbaradai, saying 'leave the job diplomacy to diplomat', now I wonder how will she define the job of Columbia university professor come president.

Top to bottom of his ( CU professor ) speech was more like 'whoever says first is the winner' type of attitude, a performance targeted media, perhaps no matter what Iranian president says in return.

Moshin
September 25, 2007, 10:30 AM
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is the 5th President of Iran. He is considered as the most highly directed official of Iran, many think of him as being biased, and does not allow many rights to the people of Iran, for example the hijab debate and the nuclear weapons that are created that are causing tensions between the United States, and he only focuses on the United States' position in the World, and not focusing in the economy of Iran. He has agreed to continue making Nuclear Weapons, but many nations espicially the States, critisise him as making them for unjust reasons.

He is particually in the debate of the Hollocaust disaster, he thinks all of the story that took place in Europe, the killings of 6 million people was just a myth, and says he needs more evidence to prove the massacare, and tells people to think of it as just a theory, and he is not convinced of it, what do you think of this, is he talking nonsense, is he trying discriminate the Jews or what?

He has agreed with Iran's Nuclear Program, and said is was just for peaceful reasons and that policy is allegal in Islam, and has specifically has said that is just for peaceful matters, so why is the United States being very angry over the program, I mean they have over 10,000 of them, so why can't we Muslims have these kind of stuff, this is just wrong, and they do deserve the same rights, or maybe because what he said about Israel, that they should be demolished completely, what do you think? Should Israel be destroyed and off the map? Should Iran continue the nuclear weapons program? Is the Hollocaust real and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is just being stupid? and should we Muslims step up for our rights? Discuss the matter of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his policies, make your view be heard. ;)

Moshin
September 25, 2007, 10:34 AM
I am not happy about this, he did not deserve that kind of treatment and comments by him, he is the president of Iran, and should be respected, especially his point of views about the Hollocaust!

Hatebreed
September 25, 2007, 11:38 AM
I think Ahmedinejad spoke very sincerely and intelligibly, despite such a rude introduction by Lee Bollinger. It was very disrespectful of a university president to verbally assault a person like this who you have invited to speak there. He didn't go there to be insulted or intimidated. People may have their own views about him, but it appears the students have responded rather positively to his answers. Just watch as they get labelled pseudo-intelligent liberal scums.

Arnab
September 25, 2007, 01:59 PM
It's a show for public consumption. CU prez had to say what he said in order to make it more saucy.

chinaman
September 25, 2007, 02:57 PM
It's a show for public consumption. CU prez had to say what he said in order to make it more saucy.

MSG or Radio City Music Hall or even the Lincoln Center would have been better for such 'saucy' adventure. Better yet, Leno or Letterman show ..

Farhad
September 25, 2007, 03:02 PM
I for one do not sympathize with Ahmedinejad. He might seem like a little man being bullied by the US media, but hes no angel. Not by a long shot. I urge you guys to read up on some of his policies if you have some extra time. That being said, I didnt find Bollingers comments to be particularly tasteful either...

Arnab
September 25, 2007, 04:37 PM
MSG or Radio City Music Hall or even the Lincoln Center would have been better for such 'saucy' adventure. Better yet, Leno or Letterman show ..

I think the CU Prez made use of a very "academic" vocabulary in his speech, which was consistent with the setting. :)

chinaman
September 25, 2007, 05:15 PM
Not an inept extenuation :)

Miraz
September 25, 2007, 05:37 PM
Ahmedinejad is really a smart man.

With one sentence he nullified the speech of the CU President Bollinger

I think the text read by the gentlemen here more than addressing me was an insult to information and knowledge of audience here.

Really surprised by the cheap shot from the University President. He should learn the basic etiquette before addressing any audience again. IMO, he helped Ahmedinejad to overcome the negative mindset of the audience.

Puck
September 26, 2007, 02:37 PM
the statements above, apart from a single exception, is rendering this public drama as an east-west duel. while it hasn't been uttered explicitly, there is a latent notion that the duel is also fought between a judeochristian western philosophy and a islamic ideologue. as it can be expected from this forum, the general consensus of opinion seems to be that ahmadinejad was insulted by the west, and that he gave back as good as he got.

i think we need to separate the country of usa and its politics from the university of columbia. opinions expressed by the university figurehead is in no way representative of public consensus within usa. it can also be argued that holocaust denial and anti-Israeli sentiment expressed by the iranian president is in no way representative of the entire public consensus of the democratic islamic republic of iran. the country might be run under shariya law or its shi'i interpretation, however, at its root iran has a democratically elected parliament and political machinery, very similar to any western, developed country. the right to express ones opinion is perhaps where the two countries differ in.

ahmadinejad is no angel. he is a master manipulator of public opinion and has a machiavellian tendency in expertly using the political machinery to stay in power. he is a masterful politician and there are few in the west or the east who can rival his cunning. a detailed reading of his policies as well as opinion in iran would give a rather more accurate picture of the man. i know a little more about the background of this man than perhaps most contributors to this thread. my personal source of information is a british-iranian comic who recently pulled off a hit show at the edinburgh fringe festival. his family is of iranian aristocratic stock and also related to the esteemed president. iranians themselves are split in their loyalty towards their president.

in britain, the mainstream and left wing politicians abhor discussing the issue of immigration control as they fear it would collude with racism. immigration and racism are somehow seen to belong in one basket and better not be discussed. when the political right raise debates on immigration, they are tainted with notions of xenophobia. how is this relevant to ahmadinejad? well, the issue of anti-semitism and Israeli politics also seem to get wrangled up like immigration and racism in the western european countries.

let it be said that the Israeli politicians have used the holocaust as something of holy grail to garner public sympathy all through the western world. jewish intellectuals have also been somewhat guilty of this. however, to put this into context one has to take into account what a horrible feat the gas-chambers represented and still holds for the jewish soul. it was a horrific episode of history that was the culmination of almost two hundred years of anti-jewish sentiment expressed all through europe in the 18th and 19th centuries. a reading of feuerbach and marx's' 'jewish question' essays would present a detailed examination of historical arguments. shlomo aniveri had also written an excellent analysis of the jewish caricature on pre-war europe. suffice to say, the holocaust represents to the jewish man and woman what the 1971 war of sacrifice represents to the bangladeshi. one is of course a more recent event and had little coverage in the western media at the time or even now. the other had been milked to an extent over the last 60 years. both represent major human tragedies. how the bangladeshi's feel about their country, their existence, their independence can be held up as expressing the very same passion that the jews all over the world feel about the religious homeland. to them, it represents thousands of years of struggle for independence. the sensible amongst you and the genuine 'deshpremi' who are not so clouded over the idea of religious supremacy arguement should see the analogy.

it would be fair to say that most traditional muslims are generally anti-jewish. the modern muslim, certainly the muslim who had been born after 1947 tends to be a little more antijewish that their forefathers. much of this is a reaction against the palestinian struggle for an independent homeland. the jewish state of israel that is definitely responsible for the problem in the modern context, is seen as a wider judaic movement with its influencial backers in the united states and here in britain. however, the boudaries between the fact of nazi attrocities and the present state of israel is somewhat blurred in the muslim mind. so the gas chambers are either denied, the numbers argued and in some cases, jews are seen as historic enemies of islam.

this is a major problem. those born in muslim countries and raised within a religious upbringing where traditional islamic views foster, grow up knowing little about the holocaust, encounter little traces of jewish culture or for that matter jews.

i was born in bangladesh and spent the first 12 years of my life there. i went to a reputable catholic school in dhaka, was taught to read the quran (transliteration rather than the meaning of the words) by my mother and grandfather over school holidays since the age of 7, and largely spent my early years in a very secular, yet spiritual household. part of my ancestory is related to well known sufi saints and my grandfather used to tell the tale of how old people used to touch his feet, when he had visited the ancestoral village as a youngster. even within a very secular middle class and highly educated upbringing where a great grandfather had a degree from oxford in the 1930's, served as president of the oxford union, as well as various family members being graduates from the early batches of calcutta and aligarh university alumni, i learnt little about judaism or israel. talking to my cousins and peers who had been raised in bangladesh showed me that there is little knowledge of the religion or its people in south east asia. what knowledge is there is sourced from the anti-israel and anti-holocaust pedagogy.

i spent the next 20 years of my life in 'bilait'. i encountered my first jew at the age of 13. he was at my school. the school was one of the most prestigious in the world where many luminaries had attended from all over the world, including a couple of ex-indian and pakistani prime ministers. ariel lansberg was a doctor's son. his parents were both at the queen elizabeth hospital in some exchange scheme and ariel gained attendance as his grandfather had been a former pupil at the school. over the next two years we became best friends playing and representing our school in table tennis and badminton championships. since the early teens i have known many jewish men and women and even dated a few of the latter. it is through this exposure that i have found my views on anti-semitism to grow as strong as it is on racism, to the extent that i abhor all discrimination based on the grounds of race, gender, sexuality or disability. this is why i find blanket muslim hatred towards all jews to be dispicable.

ahmedinejad exploits this bias expertly to conserve his powerbase. america might keep state and religion seperate through its constitution, but over the years, religion had played as much havoc in the very lives of the american as arthur miller plays like the crucible spelt out. the recent dipping into conservatism had further alienated the major superpower in the eyes of the world populace. however, despite the intellectually challenged president and his oil loving cronies, america remains constitutionally secular. its culture allows for one of the esteemed universities to invite an abhorrent neo-con politician of a rival nation to speak openly and freely. the university figurehead might seem 'stupid' to you, however, just by inviting the iranian premier it pulled off a major coup against the iranian president's idea of freedom of expression. so yes, there are torture chambers operated by the american military in cuba, there were maltreatments of prisoners in iraqi prison cells, there had been an illegal occupation of another land by the neo-con american presidency, however, the laws of the land still allows for free exchange of ideas.

the best comment about this whole episode came from an iranian student of columbia university. she retorted that such invitations and platforms for the iranian president in america raises hope for future dialogue in whatever shape or form. 'we might be enemies at present but cultural exchange and simple 'chatting' is more likely to eliminate the misunderstandings on both sides.' i for one totally agree with her.

al Furqaan
September 26, 2007, 08:52 PM
this is why i find blanket muslim hatred towards all jews to be dispicable.

blanket hatred of anyone by anyone else is indeed dispicable...however often times there are many things underneath the blanket which would explain (not necessarily justify) why the blanket exists or appears as it does.

shaoun
September 26, 2007, 11:08 PM
i saw the video in youtube. it was a disgrace how he was introduced to the audience. but iranian president did an excellent job reply to all of those questions considering the situation. bush in that situation would probably run.

BanCricFan
September 27, 2007, 12:37 AM
Puck- dear fellow,

It seems like you have failed to grasp the spirit of this thread. Its not a discussion about Iranian presidents personality, credibility or even his legitemacy as a political figure head. If I'm not mistaken, Its about how a foreign President was treated by his "host" who is the president of a prestigious university too.

Its a shame that you had to drag in "holocaust" and muslim "hatred" towards Jews etc, to this! I think that debate is quite a different one all together and could have been voiced somewhere else.

BTW, you're making too many sweeping assumptions here, especially, at the outset of your post.

Puck
September 27, 2007, 03:50 AM
Puck- dear fellow,

It seems like you have failed to grasp the spirit of this thread. Its not a discussion about Iranian presidents personality, credibility or even his legitemacy as a political figure head. If I'm not mistaken, Its about how a foreign President was treated by his "host" who is the president of a prestigious university too.

Its a shame that you had to drag in "holocaust" and muslim "hatred" towards Jews etc, to this! I think that debate is quite a different one all together and could have been voiced somewhere else.

BTW, you're making too many sweeping assumptions here, especially, at the outset of your post.

hello bancricfan,

the thread title was used as a blanket term to express a multitude of views, some particularly disgusting. the comments of mohsin 31 are particularly distasteful and those of alien also carry a veiled sense of scorn.

references to anti-semitism had been made. the general tone of what had been expressed by many contributors carry an anti-semitic bias and reveal narrowmindedness.

this is not expected from muslims since the spirit of the faith is peace towards oneself and all others. muslims should not take the spirit of the salam lightly because that is the essence of islam. hatred breeds hatred. your own post tries to sweep the underlying issues under the carpet.

go in peace.

Puck
September 27, 2007, 04:00 AM
blanket hatred of anyone by anyone else is indeed dispicable...however often times there are many things underneath the blanket which would explain (not necessarily justify) why the blanket exists or appears as it does.


there are always issues, however, it does not make the initial hatred any fairer. the tendency is to group human beings into religious, social or nationalistic boundaries, and it is expected that they all behave exactly the same way. this is just so unfair.

the world is much smaller now than it was in the past. the information age has revealed much about our inner beliefs. however, it seems that age old hatred remains dormant like a festering mould. the only way to alleviate this sense of the past is through dialogue and understanding. there is room for peaceful co-existence for each and every one of us. the nullyfying of the ira came through dialogue. the age between the intefada saw the plo leader greeted at white house lawn. talking achieves much in the long run. hatered does little to improve the human condition.

PoorFan
September 27, 2007, 04:56 AM
...references to anti-semitism had been made. the general tone of what had been expressed by many contributors carry an anti-semitic bias and reveal narrowmindedness.

<!--StartFragment -->May I ask you to quote exactly which comments on this thread lead you to label "many contributors carry an anti-semitic bias and reveal narrowmindedness"? At least you could pick up few, ... if not all, since its seems to have loads of anti-semitic bias narrowmindedness comments.:-p

It will be helpful for us ( many contributors ) to know the base of your wise judgment, and discuss more from each perspective.

BanCricFan
September 27, 2007, 06:29 AM
It's a show for public consumption. CU prez had to say what he said in order to make it more saucy.

That is one of the most outrageous and ludicrous statements I've ever heard! ...I don't see any "saucyness" in humiliating any invited guest in such a manner- let alone the Head of a country! Will this same "professor" take George W Bush to task for his killings of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq, his lies regarding the WMD and his invasion of Afganistan and more killings- if he (Bush) was an invited guest at his Uni? Would he have given the same kind of "welcomming" if it was Sharon the Butcher from Tel Aviv??

BTW, which show isn't for public consumption?

Puck
September 27, 2007, 06:52 AM
<!--StartFragment -->May I ask you to quote exactly which comments on this thread lead you to label "many contributors carry an anti-semitic bias and reveal narrowmindedness"? At least you could pick up few, ... if not all, since its seems to have loads of anti-semitic bias narrowmindedness comments.:-p

It will be helpful for us ( many contributors ) to know the base of your wise judgment, and discuss more from each perspective.

my dear poorfan, this is not an issue to be joked around. i don't wish to insult the intelligence of the forum readers. i think all readers can read and judge for themselves the sentiments expressed here.

i would like to highlight a particular issue that is not totally unrelated to your question. this forum has a reputation for being extremely welcoming. frequently, readers come through to these pages from bbc and other western sites. the 'forget cricket' forum ends up serving as a vehicle of advertisement for bangladesh and its diverse culture. in the past i had personally recommended it to a few academic friends of mine. i am sure that there are many lurkers who read our views expressed here as they want to gauge the nuance of what it is like to be a bangladesh born or born into the culture. a casual glance at the viewing figures for each thread shows how many read our drivel!

of late, reading the forum seems to give the impression that some of us are on a warpath, that bengalis are fanatics about something or other, and that we live up to some of the right wing western expectations of being a hotbed of jew-hating, west abhoring group of people. while there are some balanced views here as well, however, a few contributors regularly preach a traditionally islamic view of life that lack in historical and contextual understanding of the world islam came into. a few comments in the 'other sports' forum about israel and jewish athletes had been particularly scathing in the last month or so if we are just confining this discussion to anti-semitism. there are many other cases of general disdain for all things white, a mistaken belief in their total subjugation to a jewish elite and western culture in general. the overall impression is not pleasant for the outsider looking in. it must be stressed that these negetive views are principally coming from those who are living outside of the country and have been exposed to non-bengali cultures.

i am not advocating that we stop our rants. just be sensible. what i am suggesting is that in the age of the global communication, we can give out notions of being fundamentalist hotheads quite easily. the recent threads on ramadan and my own thread about a turkish photographer had generated some very narrowminded responses that gave the impression that we are living in the middle ages. this doesn't serve the nation or the culture we're born into well. so a little less of the pray five times a day or go to hell and the naval-gazing village islamic didactic would make the forum a balanced reading again. if you really wish to talk about islam knowledeably, pick up a copy of the excellent 'R Stephen Humphreys, 1991, Islamic History, A framework for inquiry, London, I.B. Tauris & Co' and read its first chapter. this contains a complete annotated bibliography of research material on islam in all the languages of the world covering all periods of history since 610 ad. do your reading, get a balanced view and then start preaching again!

secondly, since 9/11 there had been many security agencies all over the world closely monitoring internet useage. in uk alone, there used to be only a small unit based in manchester consisting of four members of staff who monitored the internet. this particular department alone now has quite a few times more members of staff and there are new agencies right left and centre browsing the internet, building up dossiers and getting paid for it! other european countries have similar agencies. we have all heard and read about homeland security department in the usa and its pervasive powers.

forums like this are searchable through google and other search engines. whether we like it or not, anyone can be traced and let us be convinced that they are. those users who post from outside of bangladesh are particularly vulnerable. we all know about the treatment of visitors to the us who have theophoric names. as bangladeshis, all of us have theophoric surnames even if our first names are not in arabic. those living, working or studying abroad are rather more under the gaze. 'they' might not come and knock on your door individually but the databases pick up more bytes, and a more suspicious gaze at the community in general is the result of what we express on the internet. need i mention the wrongful arrests in britain of individuals and countless others in usa. the innocent get caught up in the mess of a clash of fundamentalisms. the brazilian john charles the menezes was a classic example of having a tanned skin and getting caught up in the aftermath of the 7/7 attacks on london.

part of the world that i presently reside in has six mi6 officers particularly focusing on the muslim community and their activities as well as keeping an eye of young muslim students! most of the london academic instituions and cambridge would probably have many more at a rough estimate.

self-moderation in any forum is the ideal conduct. many posting and reading the forums might have views that would reinforce the notion of a fundamentalist element in the immigrant communities, however, lets not express the worst elements of it here, especially, those views that have an international and crosscultural bearing. i realise that my post might appear somewhat orwellian. the world that we live in is such. information can be our best friend or our worst enemy. so let's be sensible in our expressions. my sentiments expressed here had not been intended to spread alarm but just reminding some of the contributors that we have a responsibility to represent ourselves as worthy human beings who are part of a global community, not some sectarian ghetto. while we are at it, let us remember that the basis of islam is peace. preaching a message of peace, understanding and tolerance makes you more friends and influences more.

please note that i shall not be contributing to this thread anymore. i have had my say and have no wish to elaborate. we are all aware exactly what i have referred to and warned about in both of my two long posts. think about it and talk amongst yourselves if you wish!

peace be upon you.

Arnab
September 27, 2007, 06:54 AM
That is one of the most outrageous and ludicrous statements I've ever heard!

That's an odd reaction. Remember, I am not defending the CU president. Just pointing out that the whole setup is a drama for mass consumption and CU prez is an actor playing his part. May be his "delivery" rubs you the wrong way, but it's all part of the drama.

Puck
September 27, 2007, 06:59 AM
That is one of the most outrageous and ludicrous statements I've ever heard! ...I don't see any "saucyness" in humiliating any invited guest in such a manner- let alone the Head of a country! Will this same "professor" take George W Bush to task for his killings of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq, his lies regarding the WMD and his invasion of Afganistan and more killings- if he (Bush) was an invited guest at his Uni? Would he have given the same kind of "welcomming" if it was Sharon the Butcher from Tel Aviv??

BTW, which show isn't for public consumption?


i break my promise of no further responses just to respond to the above and to make another point. firstly, all left wing academics in usa and uk had protested against george w bush and tony blairs actions in starting an illegal war. there had been countless petitions, letters and articles to newspapers and magazines. there were marches organised by academics in both sides of the atlantic.

secondly, my previous post above wasn't directed at you pesonally but all readers who frequent these forums. that's it, no further posts in this thread.

Alien
September 27, 2007, 07:49 AM
Even though the holocaust was perpetrated by the Nazis, it was abused and re-abused by none other than the very people who suffered under it - the Jews.

Holocaust is exactly why Israel exists where it is today. The Zionists cleverly used it to create a state out of no where with tremendous international support. All generating from the massive sympathy from holocaust. Even though 4 generations of Palestinians live in refugee camps, living in poverty, its not them who receive any sympathy, its their better-off next door neighbour/invader.

Ahamdinejad probably believes in holocaust, but he by denying it, he is attacking the very core treasure all Zionists hold dear to - the utmost sympathy of holocaust.

Special 1
September 27, 2007, 09:59 AM
Even though the holocaust was perpetrated by the Nazis, it was abused and re-abused by none other than the very people who suffered under it - the Jews.

Holocaust is exactly why Israel exists where it is today. The Zionists cleverly used it to create a state out of no where with tremendous international support. All generating from the massive sympathy from holocaust. Even though 4 generations of Palestinians live in refugee camps, living in poverty, its not them who receive any sympathy, its their better-off next door neighbour/invader.

Ahamdinejad probably believes in holocaust, but he by denying it, he is attacking the very core treasure all Zionists hold dear to - the utmost sympathy of holocaust.

Well, the zionists did use it in a clever way and it is their holy land promised in their holy book. I do not feel that the problem is Israel milking the holocaust, its the other arab states that are not helping out palestine, when they have enough resources to do so.
At the end of the day, its all about power and politics. Jews played their hand really well around 1947 and has been playing their hand really well eversince. Altho immoral and ruthless a lot of times. Muslims on this part of the world should not hate the jews but hate those barbarians in middle east, who claim to be the custodians of our religion when they merely practice the core foundations of it. Being is a muslim is far beyond praying, fasting and going to pilgrimage.

Alien
September 27, 2007, 10:39 AM
Well, the zionists did use it in a clever way and it is their holy land promised in their holy book. I do not feel that the problem is Israel milking the holocaust, its the other arab states that are not helping out palestine, when they have enough resources to do so.
At the end of the day, its all about power and politics. Jews played their hand really well around 1947 and has been playing their hand really well eversince. Altho immoral and ruthless a lot of times. Muslims on this part of the world should not hate the jews but hate those barbarians in middle east, who claim to be the custodians of our religion when they merely practice the core foundations of it. Being is a muslim is far beyond praying, fasting and going to pilgrimage.

Yes, other Arab nations are no saints, its their fault that they lost 6 consecutive wars to Israel. Just a day after Israel was proclaimed, 12 Arab armies entered without any sense of cooperation. And they all got belted out in now time.

Saying that they weren't milking the holocaust is an understatement. Every little thing they whinge "Our ancestor lived in this land, we were kicked around Europe for 20 something generations, we need our homeland, the nasty barbarian Arabs hate us...blah blah blah blah blah"

One thing you gotta understand is that they got a very big mouth for a very small nation. They make the whole west feel guilty with their anti-semetic past because it wasn't the Nazis only who treated the Jews bad, lots of countries did who saw them as unwanted foreigner since their Diaspora into Europe.

As for holy book, since when did the world run based on jewish holy books?

Special 1
September 27, 2007, 10:50 AM
Yes, other Arab nations are no saints, its their fault that they lost 6 consecutive wars to Israel. Just a day after Israel was proclaimed, 12 Arab armies entered without any sense of cooperation. And they all got belted out in now time.

Saying that they weren't milking the holocaust is an understatement. Every little thing they whinge "Our ancestor lived in this land, we were kicked around Europe for 20 something generations, we need our homeland, the nasty barbarian Arabs hate us...blah blah blah blah blah"

One thing you gotta understand is that they got a very big mouth for a very small nation. They make the whole west feel guilty with their anti-semetic past because it wasn't the Nazis only who treated the Jews bad, lots of countries did who saw them as unwanted foreigner since their Diaspora into Europe.

As for holy book, since when did the world run based on jewish holy books?

well. some big countries in the world want to run their country based off the islam holy books, and believe me if someone invaded meccah and kept it under their rule and 1000s of years later muslims retook it, the muslims would also use the holy book argument. But that is besides the point.

They do have a big mouth for a lil country. But That lil country has the power to take on the whole of europe economically and militarily (and yes alone without help of big brother USA). its kind of sad, but its true

BanCricFan
September 27, 2007, 11:00 AM
Puck,
Thank you for taking the trouble and remimding us that the Big Brother is watching. I would say, let them watch. As muslims, we live our lives by certain lofty ideals and principles. One of them is to take action or, at least, to speak out against injustice. A willing failure to do so would be tantamount to accepting or allowing oppression to take place. We are duty-bound to fight against Injustice not only towards muslims but humanity as a whole.

Hatred has no place in Islam. The Prophet of Islam has commanded us "Do not hate a person but hate the wrong action he does". The Qur'an also commands us "Be just- its closest to Taqwa (piety)". Historically- and generally speaking- muslims have been governed by these maxims in our dealings with each other as well as the non-muslims.

Special 1
September 27, 2007, 11:11 AM
Hatred has no place in Islam. The Prophet of Islam has commanded us "Do not hate a person but hate the wrong action he does". The Qur'an also commands us "Be just- its closest to Taqwa (piety)". Historically- and generally speaking- muslims have been governed by these maxims in our dealings with each other as well as the non-muslims.

And does the quran specify what injustice is and what isnt? in an absolute sense.
On second thought do not bother replying. Since it is way off topic.

BanCricFan
September 27, 2007, 11:20 AM
And does the quran specify what injustice is and what isnt?
Off to break my fast soon...lets just say Qur'an urges us to make use of our intelect and be commonsensical about things!

If you want further specific info- please do ask. I'll try my best.

BanCricFan
September 27, 2007, 11:21 AM
And does the quran specify what injustice is and what isnt? in an absolute sense.
On second thought do not bother replying. Since it is way off topic.

just a fraction late...:)

Ganguly da
September 27, 2007, 11:55 AM
Ahmedijinad is full of crap, he ignored a lot of things, homosexual treatments in Iran is deplorable. He is constantly providing support to Shia terrorist groups in IRaq.

However, Bollinger shouldn't have said that to create cheap public sympathy.

al Furqaan
September 27, 2007, 12:54 PM
there are always issues, however, it does not make the initial hatred any fairer. the tendency is to group human beings into religious, social or nationalistic boundaries, and it is expected that they all behave exactly the same way. this is just so unfair.

the world is much smaller now than it was in the past. the information age has revealed much about our inner beliefs. however, it seems that age old hatred remains dormant like a festering mould. the only way to alleviate this sense of the past is through dialogue and understanding. there is room for peaceful co-existence for each and every one of us. the nullyfying of the ira came through dialogue. the age between the intefada saw the plo leader greeted at white house lawn. talking achieves much in the long run. hatered does little to improve the human condition.

all well established facts.

on a different but probably related note, there is an anti israel bias in this and most muslim forums. as a result of the political and religious history of the middle east over the last 60 or so years. and it cuts both ways. someone had posted a picture of israeli children writing messages to lebense children on IAF bombs...there is a definite hatred between both groups, which i frankly find quite unsurprising.

personally, i am convinced that there will never be peace in the holy land if the people involved are israeli, american, and palestinian politicians. the first 2 sides have nothing to lose by retaining the status quo and the latter side has grown accustomed to the tribulations of it.

i believe that the answer to this lies inside America. the power of the jewish american lobby is a concretely established fact, and it is also apparent that muslim organizations are mobilizing now more than ever. unfortunately, they are counter-acting each other at the moment.

infinitely more likely than having an israeli-palestinian peace agreement is the american jewish and muslim communities coming together in agreement and then creating foreign policy legislation that will yield the environment from which a peaceful 2 state solution can emerge.

just as an example, tonight our campus iftaar is being co-hosted by the MSA and the Hillel (jewish organization). in fact, the Hillel invited us to join them in breaking our fast! truly unthinkable stuff for most in the forum, but its true.

this is the key, the only key.

Alien
September 27, 2007, 07:20 PM
well. some big countries in the world want to run their country based off the islam holy books, and believe me if someone invaded meccah and kept it under their rule and 1000s of years later muslims retook it, the muslims would also use the holy book argument. But that is besides the point.


Yeah well it doesn't say in our Quran that Mecca belongs to "Muslim only".


They do have a big mouth for a lil country. But That lil country has the power to take on the whole of europe economically and militarily (and yes alone without help of big brother USA). its kind of sad, but its true

Without American help? I find that hard to believe since every bomb dropped on Palestinian territory and Lebanon had "Made in USA" written on it. When war breaks out, the first aid they get is not money, but bombs and jet fuels. Oh, what about the nukes?

Alien
September 27, 2007, 07:22 PM
He is constantly providing support to Shia terrorist groups in IRaq.


There was a time when Bush's daddy use to provide support for Saddam. They guy they hung before last new year.

chinaman
September 27, 2007, 10:05 PM
Once upon a time, there was a king. His name was Reza Shah Pahlavi. One day ...

There was a time when Bush's daddy use to provide support for Saddam...

Zobair
September 27, 2007, 10:38 PM
Indeed! 2 more words...Mosaddegh and the MKO! sigh!

Once upon a time, there was a king. His name was Reza Shah Pahlavi. One day ...

Special 1
September 28, 2007, 01:34 AM
Yeah well it doesn't say in our Quran that Mecca belongs to "Muslim only".
Without American help? I find that hard to believe since every bomb dropped on Palestinian territory and Lebanon had "Made in USA" written on it. When war breaks out, the first aid they get is not money, but bombs and jet fuels. Oh, what about the nukes?

does it say in the torah that only jews can live in Jerusalem? As far as i know, no.

Sure these bombs are made in america, but a lot of this is financed by the israeli daispora in the US. And finally a lot of these bombs and technology is actually discovered in Israel. And finally, as long as you have the money, you own the world.
It doesnt matter where your supplies come from.

PoorFan
September 28, 2007, 03:40 AM
Dear Puck,<!--StartFragment -->

Looks like your comment ( anti semitic, bias, narrow mindedness ) came from whole BC forum rather only this thread. Since I didn't read your 'turkish photographer' thread, nor 'other sports' thread, so hadn't much clue how you came to conclusion that 'many contributors are anti semitic, bias and narrow mindedness'. Some people makes comments on Israel and jew from political POV, some from historical, and some from purely religious POV, and its so natural like any other places or forums, right or wrong is a different matter, but nothing unique here on BC I guess. And please note that there are many silent members, who are just reading the threads without making comments, means few tasteless comments <!--StartFragment -->doesn't represents the entire forum.

There are numbers of threads on Palestine, Israel, Hezbullah, Ahmadinejad ( when he said Israel should be wiped off from the map ) if you dig and read, I wish you will find how same people expressed their feelings on various issues. Recently there was a thread on 'Bangladesh should establish diplomatic relation with Israel', though I cant remember the exact title, but can remember most of the contributors responded positive. In my understanding Bangladeshi people basically do not support Israel from political POV ( recent US and Israeli policy, action on neighbor muslim countries ), then comes historical POV ( Palestine issue post world war two ), and then finally comes the religious POV.

For example, yesterday our foreign advisor once again called for Israeli withdrawal from all occupied Arab lands (http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=5788) which is Bangladesh's political stand on Palestine issue based on long due UN resolution. Now hypothetically, somehow if Israel accept that UN resolution,, Bangladesh and her people ( more than 90% the least ) has no reason to be un supportive or critical against Israel, other than least effective ( least harmful towards Israel and jew ) religious POV. The reason because, unlike other middle east and north african muslim countries, Bangladesh and her ancient history has no direct or indirect conflict with Israel and jew, nor we ( BD people and jews ) ever lived to next door, to be abused or oppressed by each other for that matter.

Now, when I see a highly knowledgeable person like you, more importantly a Bangladeshi origin, labeling many contributors here on BC as 'anti semitic, bias, narrow mindedness', which has no practical, historical facts as back up, but just having different POV, different analogy ( could be wrong sometime though ) ... I find it rather harsh to say the least. Why we BD people, so easily should be label as anti semitic and so? To me, this is not an issue to be ignored.

As you and many others here on BC, I am also aware of well reputation of BC forum, also aware of interest of Bangladesh and her people, hence was my reaction on your that particular comment. No hard feelings, but hope you understand me.

cricket_dorshok
September 28, 2007, 04:14 AM
Dear Puck,<!--StartFragment -->

Looks like your comment ( anti semitic, bias, narrow mindedness ) came from whole BC forum rather only this thread. Since I didn't read your 'turkish photographer' thread, nor 'other sports' thread, so hadn't much clue how you came to conclusion that 'many contributors are anti semitic, bias and narrow mindedness'. Some people makes comments on Israel and jew from political POV, some from historical, and some from purely religious POV, and its so natural like any other places or forums, right or wrong is a different matter, but nothing unique here on BC I guess. And please note that there are many silent members, who are just reading the threads without making comments, means few tasteless comments <!--StartFragment -->doesn't represents the entire forum.

There are numbers of threads on Palestine, Israel, Hezbullah, Ahmadinejad ( when he said Israel should be wiped off from the map ) if you dig and read, I wish you will find how same people expressed their feelings on various issues. Recently there was a thread on 'Bangladesh should establish diplomatic relation with Israel', though I cant remember the exact title, but can remember most of the contributors responded positive. In my understanding Bangladeshi people basically do not support Israel from political POV ( recent US and Israeli policy, action on neighbor muslim countries ), then comes historical POV ( Palestine issue post world war two ), and then finally comes the religious POV.

For example, yesterday our foreign advisor once again called for Israeli withdrawal from all occupied Arab lands (http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=5788) which is Bangladesh's political stand on Palestine issue based on long due UN resolution. Now hypothetically, somehow if Israel accept that UN resolution,, Bangladesh and her people ( more than 90% the least ) has no reason to be un supportive or critical against Israel, other than least effective ( least harmful towards Israel and jew ) religious POV. The reason because, unlike other middle east and north african muslim countries, Bangladesh and her ancient history has no direct or indirect conflict with Israel and jew, nor we ( BD people and jews ) ever lived to next door, to be abused or oppressed by each other for that matter.

Now, when I see a highly knowledgeable person like you, more importantly a Bangladeshi origin, labeling many contributors here on BC as 'anti semitic, bias, narrow mindedness', which has no practical, historical facts as back up, but just having different POV, different analogy ( could be wrong sometime though ) ... I find it rather harsh to say the least. Why we BD people, so easily should be label as anti semitic and so? To me, this is not an issue to be ignored.

As you and many others here on BC, I am also aware of well reputation of BC forum, also aware of interest of Bangladesh and her people, hence was my reaction on your that particular comment. No hard feelings, but hope you understand me.
:up: :up: :up:

Alien
September 28, 2007, 05:22 AM
does it say in the torah that only jews can live in Jerusalem? As far as i know, no.

On that day, God made a covenant with Abraham, saying: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river the Euphrates. The land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites; the Hittites, Perizzites, Refaim; the Emorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites." - Genesis 15:18-21




Sure these bombs are made in america, but a lot of this is financed by the israeli daispora in the US. And finally a lot of these bombs and technology is actually discovered in Israel. And finally, as long as you have the money, you own the world.
It doesnt matter where your supplies come from.

Bombs financed by Israeli Diaspora. Doesn't that sound ridiculous? Why and mainly how does Israeli "Diaspora" ship a whole bunch of weapons during a war?

They are weapon "aids" from the US government. Israeli Diaspora don't stock jet fuels and cruise missiles in their garage.

Special 1
September 28, 2007, 07:01 AM
On that day, God made a covenant with Abraham, saying: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river the Euphrates. The land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites; the Hittites, Perizzites, Refaim; the Emorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites." - Genesis 15:18-21

Bombs financed by Israeli Diaspora. Doesn't that sound ridiculous? Why and mainly how does Israeli "Diaspora" ship a whole bunch of weapons during a war?

They are weapon "aids" from the US government. Israeli Diaspora don't stock jet fuels and cruise missiles in their garage.

i do not seee the word "only" or exclusively in your quote from the torah. and also, muslims are supposed to be descendents of abraham aswell? right? so...

About you second part, bhai do you get the concept of money at all? it is a medium of exchange. So, as long as the jews have money they essentially have the bombs when they need it. And another thing, i dont think war shuru howar por or ek week ageh they start stocking up bombs. jemne boltaso jeh juddho hoile first thing they need is bombs from united states. These things are done in advance. Aaaar just to clarify by what i meant by "help from america" is that during that israel can win a war with the europe without any active interference from the US military.
IDF is the second/third strongest military in the world whether u like it or not and that is the point i am trying to emphasize, not kon jaiga thike tel ashtase or what not.

Special 1
September 28, 2007, 07:09 AM
Dear Puck,<!--StartFragment -->

Looks like your comment ( anti semitic, bias, narrow mindedness ) came from whole BC forum rather only this thread. Since I didn't read your 'turkish photographer' thread, nor 'other sports' thread, so hadn't much clue how you came to conclusion that 'many contributors are anti semitic, bias and narrow mindedness'. Some people makes comments on Israel and jew from political POV, some from historical, and some from purely religious POV, and its so natural like any other places or forums, right or wrong is a different matter, but nothing unique here on BC I guess. And please note that there are many silent members, who are just reading the threads without making comments, means few tasteless comments <!--StartFragment -->doesn't represents the entire forum.

There are numbers of threads on Palestine, Israel, Hezbullah, Ahmadinejad ( when he said Israel should be wiped off from the map ) if you dig and read, I wish you will find how same people expressed their feelings on various issues. Recently there was a thread on 'Bangladesh should establish diplomatic relation with Israel', though I cant remember the exact title, but can remember most of the contributors responded positive. In my understanding Bangladeshi people basically do not support Israel from political POV ( recent US and Israeli policy, action on neighbor muslim countries ), then comes historical POV ( Palestine issue post world war two ), and then finally comes the religious POV.

For example, yesterday our foreign advisor once again called for Israeli withdrawal from all occupied Arab lands (http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=5788) which is Bangladesh's political stand on Palestine issue based on long due UN resolution. Now hypothetically, somehow if Israel accept that UN resolution,, Bangladesh and her people ( more than 90% the least ) has no reason to be un supportive or critical against Israel, other than least effective ( least harmful towards Israel and jew ) religious POV. The reason because, unlike other middle east and north african muslim countries, Bangladesh and her ancient history has no direct or indirect conflict with Israel and jew, nor we ( BD people and jews ) ever lived to next door, to be abused or oppressed by each other for that matter.

Now, when I see a highly knowledgeable person like you, more importantly a Bangladeshi origin, labeling many contributors here on BC as 'anti semitic, bias, narrow mindedness', which has no practical, historical facts as back up, but just having different POV, different analogy ( could be wrong sometime though ) ... I find it rather harsh to say the least. Why we BD people, so easily should be label as anti semitic and so? To me, this is not an issue to be ignored.

As you and many others here on BC, I am also aware of well reputation of BC forum, also aware of interest of Bangladesh and her people, hence was my reaction on your that particular comment. No hard feelings, but hope you understand me.

Bhai, speak for youself! MY experience about bangladesh has beeen totally differenT. Most people in Bangladesh that i have met or asked questions to about jews, hate jews. Bangladeshe ekta jew aishe jodi boleh shey jew er ki obostah hobeh only god knows. And i would term that as anti semitic.
I guesss the BC cricket members are an anomaly, altho some of them claim to represent the avergae bangladeshi population, they are far far from it (i am saying it in a good way).

Alien
September 28, 2007, 07:38 AM
i do not seee the word "only" or exclusively in your quote from the torah
I am not the author of Torah so don't ask me. I am just quoting one of many biblical text used by Zionist to justify their actions.

They say that since text like the one i mentioned earlier that God gave them the land, its their and they have the divine right to return to it. Which IMO is a load of bull crap.

. and also, muslims are supposed to be descendents of abraham aswell? right? so...


And..?

No not all Muslims are desendents of Abraham. We follow a Abrahamic religion but you don't expect Chinese muslim to be decendant of Abraham. Beside its irrelavant. Canaanites or Palestinians were long seen and viewed as arch rivals of jews beyond David vs Goliath days. So it doesn't hurt them so much to kick some arabs around after all they are infidels ("supposedly") according to the book.

About you second part, bhai do you get the concept of money at all? it is a medium of exchange. So, as long as the jews have money they essentially have the bombs when they need it. And another thing, i dont think war shuru howar por or ek week ageh they start stocking up bombs. jemne boltaso jeh juddho hoile first thing they need is bombs from united states. These things are done in advance. Aaaar just to clarify by what i meant by "help from america" is that during that israel can win a war with the europe without any active interference from the US military.
IDF is the second/third strongest military in the world whether u like it or not and that is the point i am trying to emphasize, not kon jaiga thike tel ashtase or what not.

Actually I don't thing you understand the concept of money. Saudis got more money and more invested in US than any non-US nation out there. Yet they have are no where when it comes to power and influence in American politics. Its the Jews who got all they need.

Money doesn't buy you power and this 60 year old conflict proved it ten times over. The richest army got belted black and blue many times over. So what gives them the influence? Once again, sympathy from holocaust. Many jews are successful people in US and they rose through the ranks in American politics (I heard about 25% of Senate is Jews) and what not. Plus they are a very tightly knitted group. They have a strong sense of community and will protect each other (and country) at all cost. Something Arabs lack and always did. So In conclusion these are the formula for their on going success:

Strong sense of community + strong lobby in US + world wide sympathy from Holocaust + weapons and aid during war = SUCCESS

It seems that when a US president comes to power, he also takes a secret oath behind the doors of senate to protect Israel with US.

Alien
September 28, 2007, 07:42 AM
Bhai, speak for youself! MY experience about bangladesh has beeen totally differenT. Most people in Bangladesh that i have met or asked questions to about jews, hate jews. Bangladeshe ekta jew aishe jodi boleh shey jew er ki obostah hobeh only god knows. And i would term that as anti semitic.
I guesss the BC cricket members are an anomaly, altho some of them claim to represent the avergae bangladeshi population, they are far far from it (i am saying it in a good way).

It depends on who you are asking. A mullah will react the way you mentioned, though many many not. An average citizen (from village say) won't have a clue what Jews or Israeli is on many occasion. Many city dwellers will probably raise an eyebrow but won't treat you so harshly like you mentioned. You are overly generalising it.

al Furqaan
September 28, 2007, 07:57 AM
does it say in the torah that only jews can live in Jerusalem? As far as i know, no.

Sure these bombs are made in america, but a lot of this is financed by the israeli daispora in the US. And finally a lot of these bombs and technology is actually discovered in Israel. And finally, as long as you have the money, you own the world.
It doesnt matter where your supplies come from.

jews own the world? bhai, you are falling prone to the anti semetism yourself...

anyways jokes aside, i think what alien is trying to say is that israel whilst a military power is not as strong as the european powers like france or uk.

further, israel whilst rich, still gets loads of free money in the form of loan guarantees and other stuff. their entire army is is US made as opposed to say bangladesh or india which is largely (in our case completely) soviet or chinese made. but difference is india bangladesh buy their hardware, and israel's is either given free or subsidized.

Special 1
September 28, 2007, 10:57 AM
jews own the world? bhai, you are falling prone to the anti semetism yourself...

anyways jokes aside, i think what alien is trying to say is that israel whilst a military power is not as strong as the european powers like france or uk.

further, israel whilst rich, still gets loads of free money in the form of loan guarantees and other stuff. their entire army is is US made as opposed to say bangladesh or india which is largely (in our case completely) soviet or chinese made. but difference is india bangladesh buy their hardware, and israel's is either given free or subsidized.

Israel is strong because of its diaspora spread across the world. TAke a walk across the midtown and downtown of New York. Look at the names of all the tall buildings, you will seee who owns these buildings. Altho americans, the american jewish people claim to be first israeli and then american (quite odd but true). They control a lot of the businesses in the world, so hence i sed, they own the world (not to be taken literally).

Israel does not get nething for free. America atoi gadha nah. Why do they choose Israel and not PNG? The obvious answer is the Jewsih lobby, and it is because of the jewish lobby's MONEY that israel get the military supplies. And at this point Israel is capable of building its own weopen as well. And it is a fact that the israeli military is better than any of the erupean armies.

PoorFan
September 28, 2007, 11:02 AM
Bhai, speak for youself! MY experience about bangladesh has beeen totally differenT. Most people in Bangladesh that i have met or asked questions to about jews, hate jews. Bangladeshe ekta jew aishe jodi boleh shey jew er ki obostah hobeh only god knows. And i would term that as anti semitic.
I guesss the BC cricket members are an anomaly, altho some of them claim to represent the avergae bangladeshi population, they are far far from it (i am saying it in a good way).
Bhai, what exactly IS your experience on jews in bangladesh? Are you speaking for yourself with facts?

Couple of months ago, George Soros visited Dhaka for meeting / conference, I didn’t find a single word against jews from any corner, not even from Dhaka oriented mullahs. Not enough facts?

What about a internet search, you may find few jews who visited rural Bangladesh for NGO related study tours and whatever ( which I did found few of them ), obviously they left Bangladesh safe and sound, and never noticed they observed our 'hatred', nor attempt calling us anti semitic. If its still not enough for you, then perhaps its your turn to speak with facts, that proves otherwise.

Special 1
September 28, 2007, 11:27 AM
Bhai, what exactly IS your experience on jews in bangladesh? Are you speaking for yourself with facts?

Couple of months ago, George Soros visited Dhaka for meeting / conference, I didn’t find a single word against jews from any corner, not even from Dhaka oriented mullahs. Not enough facts?

What about a internet search, you may find few jews who visited rural Bangladesh for NGO related study tours and whatever ( which I did found few of them ), obviously they left Bangladesh safe and sound, and never noticed they observed our 'hatred', nor attempt calling us anti semitic. If its still not enough for you, then perhaps its your turn to speak with facts, that proves otherwise.

Bhai read my post before reacting.
I was merely asking a question, on a hypothetical situation. Read it carefully, you may find the tone.
Again you bring up George Soros visiting Bangladesh, and there was no upsurge, but was he flaunting his jewish identity ? Again read my question carefully.
Finally, a few jewish people come to bangladesh and most of them do not reveal their identity. when bangladeshi people see white people they usually assume they are christian, not jewish. AAAr plus its not that people in bangladesh are burning flags of israel all the time, but if u ask most of them they will have a negative view about jewish people (anti semitism), and Israel (anti Zionism).

Moshin
September 28, 2007, 11:46 AM
Dear friend Puck,
The post of which I have given are not distasteful. I have given all provided information that is focused in the world of right now. I am talking about the reality of what we are facing, between the Iranian presidents logic and ideas which he has shared with the world, I have mentioned the holocaust, where he doesn't agree with it all, and the state of Israel to be demolished, which he has said this to the media, this is the reason why the world is so concerned about him, adding to that he is making nuclear weapons, which is obviously making the world very suspicious which is nearly leading to war. That is what I am trying to get people's ideas of, is he doing the right thing or not, and do you support his ideas type of discussion, which is all based with the reality of today, so please re-phrase that word, thankyou!

Alien
September 28, 2007, 11:21 PM
Bhai read my post before reacting.
I was merely asking a question, on a hypothetical situation. Read it carefully, you may find the tone.

Here is what you said earlier:


Bhai, speak for youself! MY experience about bangladesh has beeen totally differenT. Most people in Bangladesh that i have met or asked questions to about jews, hate jews. Bangladeshe ekta jew aishe jodi boleh shey jew er ki obostah hobeh only god knows

Those don't sound like hypothetical situation. Since you "asked" and you had some "experience".



Again you bring up George Soros visiting Bangladesh, and there was no upsurge, but was he flaunting his jewish identity ?

It all depends on what you mean by flaunting. Anywhere in the world he'll be kicked around if he goes and says "Jews rules, you $uck" not just BD.


Again read my question carefully.
Finally, a few jewish people come to bangladesh and most of them do not reveal their identity. when bangladeshi people see white people they usually assume they are christian, not jewish. AAAr plus its not that people in bangladesh are burning flags of israel all the time, but if u ask most of them they will have a negative view about jewish people (anti semitism), and Israel (anti Zionism).

Most people in BD don't care about the background of white people. Christians and jews are seen in the same light. Not different. IMO, you are just blowing a little thing out of proportion.

Special 1
September 29, 2007, 03:27 AM
Here is what you said earlier:
Bhai, speak for youself! MY experience about bangladesh has beeen totally differenT. Most people in Bangladesh that i have met or asked questions to about jews, hate jews. Bangladeshe ekta jew aishe jodi boleh shey jew er ki obostah hobeh only god knows
Those don't sound like hypothetical situation. Since you "asked" and you had some "experience".
It all depends on what you mean by flaunting. Anywhere in the world he'll be kicked around if he goes and says "Jews rules, you $uck" not just BD.
Most people in BD don't care about the background of white people. Christians and jews are seen in the same light. Not different. IMO, you are just blowing a little thing out of proportion.

Again read my post carefully. I really do not have the stomach to reply to your posts coz they are so decietful and i definately do not want to waste my time pointing out those tricks and then be called tom or jerry.

Alien
September 29, 2007, 06:53 AM
Again read my post carefully. I really do not have the stomach to reply to your posts coz they are so decietful and i definately do not want to waste my time pointing out those tricks and then be called tom or jerry.

I have read your post carefully and so did everyone. As usual its everyone else's fault that they don't understand your post. Such a coincidence that everyone doesn't understand you, isn't it?

You can't reply not because you don't have the stomach for it but because you know you are wrong. Again, that doesn't come to any surprise.

PS: I have no intention of insulting Tom or Jerry. Their IQ is higher on any given day and any given night.

nytelaviv
September 29, 2007, 12:43 PM
Again read my post carefully. I really do not have the stomach to reply to your posts coz they are so decietful and i definately do not want to waste my time pointing out those tricks and then be called tom or jerry.

hi i am jew born and raised in bangladesh , but never got into trouble as we are american citizens but we are NOT american , we are jewish but NOT white , we are of middle eastern origin , iraq ,persian and yemen but jewish , family has been jewish since the time of king david

i never really face any harm from Bangladshis but a lot of questions and curiosities , accoridng to the Jewish council there are 275 jewsin bangladesh and all safe , its like it is in Iran you are safe as long as u r a jew but not an israeli , but i just recently got my dual citizenship with Israle and US and i am visitn dhaka in December really looking forward to what will happen at the airport , now legally they cant do anything as i will be travelling on a US passport but it will have a no visa required seal of ISrael so cant wait to see that

andi see that the jews on manipur along the burma border as not been attacked yet !
SHALOM!

al Furqaan
September 29, 2007, 02:06 PM
hi i am jew born and raised in bangladesh , but never got into trouble as we are american citizens but we are NOT american , we are jewish but NOT white , we are of middle eastern origin , iraq ,persian and yemen but jewish , family has been jewish since the time of king david

i never really face any harm from Bangladshis but a lot of questions and curiosities , accoridng to the Jewish council there are 275 jewsin bangladesh and all safe , its like it is in Iran you are safe as long as u r a jew but not an israeli , but i just recently got my dual citizenship with Israle and US and i am visitn dhaka in December really looking forward to what will happen at the airport , now legally they cant do anything as i will be travelling on a US passport but it will have a no visa required seal of ISrael so cant wait to see that

andi see that the jews on manipur along the burma border as not been attacked yet !
SHALOM!

salaam!

welcome aboard, cousin. very good (read interesting also) to have you on board.

do you follow cricket?

AsifTheManRahman
September 29, 2007, 04:16 PM
I wouldn't think jews are under danger in Bangladesh. Sure, our people are a racist bunch, but that attitude is hardly translated to violence against minorities.

Farhad
September 29, 2007, 04:22 PM
hi i am jew born and raised in bangladesh !
So youre literally one in a million? Or more precisely around one in 550000? Isnt it a bit of a coincidence that you show up here now/:)

nytelaviv
September 29, 2007, 08:05 PM
well i was actually doing a research on google with key words jew and bangladesh , and this interesrting forum came up and i just had to reply !

the women in our synagogue in new york are trying to encourage dhaka and jerusalem to open diplomatic relationships so i was doing a research , you might find this link interesting how a jewish general played a role in bangladshi independence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.F.R._Jacob

Arnab
September 29, 2007, 08:40 PM
Damn, the Internet world is too small. Everybody's just one google search away from everybody.

al Furqaan
September 29, 2007, 08:56 PM
Sure, our people are a racist bunch

you'd never hear an indian or pakistani (or anyone else for that matter) admit that...

Alien
September 30, 2007, 12:14 AM
Special 1 bodhoy ekhon lej tuila palise.

Sohel
September 30, 2007, 06:38 AM
As someone who visits Iran frequently: MA is a reactionary jingoist brought to power by US misconceptions and subsequent isolationist policies towards the Islamic Republic. His surprise election victory over Ayatollah Rafsanjani and the Reform Movement was possible only because of the hostile posturing from the US during the final stages of the Presidential election campaigns in Iran. Ordinary Iranians are now paying the price for that little demonstration of "pride" as the movement towards greater democracy and civil rights in Iran has been stifled in favor of now legitimate "national security" concerns by reactionary opportunists like MA. Speaking of opportunists, the uncivil behavior of the Columbia "luminary" was hardly surprising in the public perception-obsessed culture of NYC in particular and the USA in general.

It would be interesting to see if my visa request to Iran is denied as a result of this post BTW.

Alien
September 30, 2007, 07:54 AM
well i was actually doing a research on google with key words jew and bangladesh , and this interesrting forum came up and i just had to reply !

the women in our synagogue in new york are trying to encourage dhaka and jerusalem to open diplomatic relationships so i was doing a research , you might find this link interesting how a jewish general played a role in bangladshi independence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.F.R._Jacob


Interesting, I did a google search on "Bangladesh" and "Jew" and this thread/site didn't come up on first, second or third page (didn't bother going beyond). If you are an impostor, it's a very lame attempt at making your point.

nytelaviv
October 2, 2007, 06:24 PM
probably you should have the patience to go beyong the 10th page :)

eh but thats alright south asian and americans do not really have much patience ! ( not being racist - just a fact )

Murad
October 3, 2007, 12:58 AM
Interesting, I did a google search on "Bangladesh" and "Jew" and this thread/site didn't come up on first, second or third page (didn't bother going beyond). If you are an impostor, it's a very lame attempt at making your point.

http://www.google.com/search?q=bangladesh+jew&hl=en&start=90&sa=N

Alien
October 3, 2007, 02:43 AM
http://www.google.com/search?q=bangladesh+jew&hl=en&start=90&sa=N

When I did the search that result didn't come up.

Link (http://www.google.com/search?q=bangladesh+jew&hl=en&start=0&sa=N)

chinaman
October 3, 2007, 10:04 AM
Don't be hard on yourself. My google preference is set to 50 per page. I can back you up on that particular search, around that time :) I just wouldn't jump to conclusions though :)

When I did the search that result didn't come up.

Alien
October 3, 2007, 11:40 AM
Don't be hard on yourself. My google preference is set to 50 per page. I can back you up on that particular search, around that time :) I just wouldn't jump to conclusions though :)

Doesn't matter the number of pages because I went back and forth upto 4th page. After that if it's not there then it's mostly likely not there. And no one would go past 3rd page at most unless they are desperately seeking something they know is out there, which in this case here doesn't make much sense.