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al Furqaan
October 1, 2007, 01:19 PM
I leave behind for you two things, which if you follow, you will never go astray: the Quran and my Sunnah (tradition).

this is a very oft quoted saying of the Prophet Muhammad (saw), and it is found in his Farewell sermon given at arafah.

i do not disagree with the statement, but there is one troubling aspect nonetheless. pretty much the only source of "the sunnah" is from the various hadith collections. you have sahih al bukhari, muslim, hadisi qudsi, et al. of course that is not the problem.

but then you have the shia, who contrary to popular sunni belief, do follow the sunnah of Prophet (saw) - they follow what they believe is the sunnah. so they have their own book of hadith, al Kafi.

now the problem is this: people quote the hadith left and right, and there is no dearth of information contained in it. however, there is also a plethora of hadith, that are contradictory to the spirit of the quran and to other hadith as well. many hadith are obviously not true or correct or models of good behavior or actions.

for example, many of us are aware of the "fact" that the Prophet consummated his marriage with Aisha when she was 6 years old. however, is there any proof of that in the Quran, the only infallible book on earth? sure there is proof in the hadith, but what kind of proof? all you have is a book written, nay compiled, by bukhari, or tirmidhi, or abu dawood which says that so and so said that such and such happened. since when is hearsay as good as gold?

even if you have a hadith where Abu Bakr or Aisha (ra) corroborate the standard accepted account, its still just a piece of paper that says that he or she said whatever.

it is fundemental in islamic aqueedah to believe that the quran is the 100% infallible word of God, but no such infallibilty is awarded to the hadith. most muslims know this, but few think about it at length.

so if even the most credible hadith is at best 99% chance that its true, it becomes both easy and necessary to dispose of the shady hadiths.

in my time, i have studied the arguments of the islamophobes at great length. i have come to see that they generally attack islam based upon the following:

- the aforementioned shady hadiths, which could NOT have been true to begin with, as I have already talked about above
- actions of so called muslims throughout history and the present day

of course given that, their claims are easily refuted for obvious reasons. however sometimes they do use the quran as a basis for their biggoted attacks. in these cases, they generally miss the point, fail to read between the lines, fail to read the context of revelation, history at that time and immediate past, as well as the greater tafsir of that particular passage. it is for this reason that the bulk majority of criticism, rather ridicule, is based upon the shady hadith and the rest is based on a flimsy understanding of quran. thus it can be ignored and/or refuted with ease.

Sauron
October 1, 2007, 03:13 PM
al Furqaan ... you just made my day.

Came to BC for a quick check on the latest posts and was quite dismayed at some of the pathetic posts that betray the lack of knowledge and heart. I did not want to start a futile exercise by responding to those posts and getting bogged down in any idiotic argument.

But then I read al Furqan's post. And I had to log in and share my delight at seeing such a refreshing post. Intelligent, full of heart, not afraid. I guess this is what you call an educated person with a great upbringing. Carry on man.


.

BD-Shardul
October 1, 2007, 04:23 PM
for example, many of us are aware of the "fact" that the Prophet consummated his marriage with Aisha when she was 6 years old. however, is there any proof of that in the Quran, the only infallible book on earth? sure there is proof in the hadith, but what kind of proof? all you have is a book written, nay compiled, by bukhari, or tirmidhi, or abu dawood which says that so and so said that such and such happened. since when is hearsay as good as gold?

Asad bhai, I will have to read your post again to fully understand what you want to say. I have just skimmed it. From that, purpose of the example that you have used in your post is not clear to me. Ummul Mumineen Aisha's (R) age of marriage is a fact, it doesn't have to be hadeeth. Because what is hadeeth? It has to be the word of the holy prophet, or his deed or his silent support to any deed. The above example din't fall in this catagory, so of course this is not a hadeeth.

Also, the hadeeths are memorised just like Quran. Until the invention of paper and printing, hadeeth was preserved the the way Quran was preserved-memorising. While memorising, and reporting hadeeths, sahabae keram mentioned not only the exact words of the prophet, but also exactly from whom they have heard or memorised the hdeeth.

nsd3
October 1, 2007, 07:20 PM
Also, the hadeeths are memorised just like Quran. Until the invention of paper and printing, hadeeth was preserved the the way Quran was preserved-memorising. While memorising, and reporting hadeeths, sahabae keram mentioned not only the exact words of the prophet, but also exactly from whom they have heard or memorised the hdeeth.

Al-Furqaan mentioend : "it is fundemental in islamic aqueedah to believe that the quran is the 100% infallible word of God, but no such infallibilty is awarded to the hadith. most muslims know this, but few think about it at length."

I have to agree with this and that is why the question on validity of hidiths (that even so many in types such as Bukhari..... etc.) gives people chances to ponder on whether to rely only on Quran or take lessons from both Quran and all types of Hadiths available in today's world.

Hatebreed
October 1, 2007, 07:49 PM
I also agree. Many non-Muslims often use these various Hadith as concrete proof to argue various debatable aspects of Islam, and you can't rule out misinterpretations and inconsistencies that may exist. That's why Qur’an is regarded as the ultimate and unchanged truth of God, because no one can challenge it, but many people can challenge the words of man.

BD-Shardul
October 2, 2007, 12:06 AM
The source of Islamic Shariah is four:

1. The Holy Quran
2. The Hadeeth
3. The Ijma
4. The Qiyas

(do not have time now to write more now, inshallah later I will try to explain each of them)

Banglatiger84
October 2, 2007, 05:54 AM
now the problem is this: people quote the hadith left and right, and there is no dearth of information contained in it. however, there is also a plethora of hadith, that are contradictory to the spirit of the quran and to other hadith as well. many hadith are obviously not true or correct or models of good behavior or actions.
.


The problem is as follows:

1) The moment you express a doubt of ahadith's authenticity, you are accused of denying the Prophet's Sunnah.

2) Ahadith are treated as being equal to the Quran, and asking "is the ahadith 100% accurate" is interpreted as questioning the Prophet (pbuh)

3) People get very hot headed when you bring this topic up, and so it often becomes unpleasant to continue a discussion where questioning authenticity of ahadith is taken as leaving Islam

Banglatiger84
October 2, 2007, 05:55 AM
While memorising, and reporting hadeeths, sahabae keram mentioned not only the exact words of the prophet, but also exactly from whom they have heard or memorised the hdeeth.


Allah has promised protection to only the Quran, and not to ahadith

Also, is it not possible that what a Sahabi said in a particular instance may have become a bit distorted while being recorded after his death?

Kabir
October 2, 2007, 09:13 AM
The problem is as follows:

1) The moment you express a doubt of ahadith's authenticity, you are accused of denying the Prophet's Sunnah.

2) Ahadith are treated as being equal to the Quran, and asking "is the ahadith 100% accurate" is interpreted as questioning the Prophet (pbuh)

3) People get very hot headed when you bring this topic up, and so it often becomes unpleasant to continue a discussion where questioning authenticity of ahadith is taken as leaving Islam

I shall write more about it at my break...but very briefly, let me just tell you that you took away the words from my mouth.

Even until a few months ago I used to debate with people about authenticity of hadith. But everyone used to bring Imam Bhukhari and said that he prayed so many raqats of nafal for every hadith, and so on. And I used to argue, does that necessarily mean that praying nafal will make your words come from heaven? The problem that we're ALL aware of is the TRANSFER of ideas from one person to another often comes with a BIT of distortion. That is to say:

Original idea when transferred to another person = Close to the original idea + a bit of distortion

After being repeatedly called un-Islamic and non-Muslim for questioning hadith, I stopped questioning it in public. My belief is in myself, and I'll live with it.

Two days after my wedding, I attended another wedding where the Imaam was saying things that I didn't agree with. And I started arguing with my shala, and a couple of other guys from India and Pakistan. One of them started talking about hadith, and I said, don't bring hadith in this coz all I'm talking about here is Quran, since that's what's authentic to me. One guy (without much surprise) immediately asked "oh, so you're questioning the authenticity of Imaam Bhukhari's words?"

I reiterated the fact that yes, we have to do our Sunnah. But what we KNOW of as Sunnah may not really be what Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) did. And it's simply due to the distortion that I mentioned a little earlier. If Ahmedinajeid can question the fact that whether "holocust has occurred" even though it happened not even a century ago, how can we say that what the sahabis recorded a thousand years ago still hold true?

That's as much as I shall write at the moment. More will follow, if time permits, and if nobody jumps on me calling me non-Muslim. And just a friendly request to all my friends here at BC, you dare not call me a non-Muslim due to whatever I have said thus far.

Sohel
October 2, 2007, 01:46 PM
I'll start with an extensive quotation for a close, good faith, non-reactionary reading. I encourage all those interested to visit the website and explore it in detail to address specific concerns and issues, all of which in the website use the Holy Quraan as the only reference. If you visit the quoted page in the website, you'll find all the links that provide the Quraanic rationale behind its claims. I have no desire to engage in debate with anybody who doesn't use the detail and duly contextualized content of the website in order to refute its claims.

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/c11b17bba6.gif (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

"...O people of the Scripture, let us come to a common agreement between us and between you; that 1) we do not serve except God, and 2) do not set up anything at all with Him, and 3) that none of us takes each other as patrons besides God...." (The Message 3:64)

This website has been created for all people who have a desire to allow God into their lives and follow His path alone...

This website invites all people of various beliefs (Sunni, Shia, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Bahai, Agnostic, Humanist, and even Atheists) to come and examine for themselves the system of Submission/Islam which is based on God Alone.

Many of you may outwardly be content with your current faith or that which you inherited from your parents and community...but to some out there, there will always be a tugging at the back of their mind that 'there is something more', and that 'some things don't always make sense'...

If you are one of those people, then open your eyes, put on your thinking cap, and welcome to an open examination of the system of Submission/Islam which very few know about...

WHAT IS Islam?

The system of God "Islam/Submission" has been taught to us through God and His messenger and is fully outlined in the final Book of God (The Qur'an) which was revealed centuries ago...

The Qur'an claims legitimacy for itself and within itself, allowing NO room for self-made priests, or religious leaders, who have distorted and misquoted the Book of God to give themselves authority and partnership with the Almighty...

“'Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?'” Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt." (The Message 6:114 )

"Say: 'Which is the greatest testimony?' Say: 'God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Qur'an that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!' Say: 'I do not bear witness!' Say: 'He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!'” (The Message 6:19)

"And We have come to them with a Scripture which We have detailed with knowledge; a guide and a mercy to those who believe." (The Message 7:52)

"We have revealed to you the Scripture with truth that you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you, and do not be an advocate for the treacherous. " (The Message 4:105)

"And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Scripture as a clarification for all things, and a guide and mercy and good tidings to those who have surrendered." (The Message 16:89)

"And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute." (The Message 5:48)

What about Obeying the Messenger?

The gravest crime the self-appointed scholars who claimed to be Muslim made was to give authority to the traditions (Sunna) and the books of Sayings (Hadith) ALONGSIDE the authority of God and His messenger. They believe that it was God who authorized such action by commanding the people to ‘obey God, and obey the messenger’…

"Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God; and whoever turns away, We have not sent you as a guardian over them." (The Message 4:80)

What is so sadly neglected is that the most critical aspects of the messenger’s life have been recorded and captured in the most detailed manner…not in the books of Hadith or tradition…but in the Holy Book itself. The questions that he was asked, and the answers (inspired by God) that he gave:

"They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say: 'In them is great harm, and a benefit for mankind; but their harm is greater than their benefit.' And they ask you how much are they to give, Say: 'The excess.' It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think." (The Message 2:219)

"And they ask you concerning the Spirit. Say: 'The Spirit is from the command on my Lord, and the knowledge you were given was but very little.'" (The Message 17:85)

The list of questions and answers goes on throughout the Book of God…This is the life of the Messenger, and this is the ‘obedience’ of the messenger…Without ‘obeying the messenger’, we would inadvertently ignore nearly 1/3 of the Book of God which deals with his most authentic narrations authorized and inspired by God which we have been commanded to follow…

“Nor does he speak from personal desire. It is a divine inspiration." (The Message 53:3-4)

What is Difference between Islam and Today's PRACTICES?

In comparing the teachings of Islam as derived from the Book of God to the practices taught and enforced by the popular Sunni and Shia faiths (1.2 Bn followers), we find that the list is quite extensive, with some of the highlights as follows:

In Islam, the requirement to be a Muslim is to simply accept and live according to the ‘Straight Path’ (6:151-153), Vs. the Sunni or Shia 5-pillars which come from unauthorized books…

In Islam, abolishing Slavery is taught to be an act of righteousness (90:12-13), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which encourages slavery under war…

In Islam, women are never forbidden from praying or fasting during Menstruation (2:222), nor is there a specific dress code (i.e. the Headscarf) imposed on them beyond modesty, Vs. the Sunni and Shia which teach the undermining of women and forcing them to cover their hair and avoid praying or fasting at certain times...

In Islam, a man or women may leave a Will, after settlement of debt (4:12), Vs. Sunnis who refuse to accept wills if there are any direct descendants...

In Islam, Monogamy is the basis for normal relationships, while polygamy is only allowed in cases involving marrying the mothers of orphans under the man’s guardianship (4:3), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (Mut’a)...

In Islam, Divorce is enforceable only after a two-phase period, and it may be made nullified if the couple reconcile before the end of this period (65:1, 65:4), Vs. Sunni teachings that destroy families by allowing a divorce to occur on the spot with no waiting period and no nullification...

In Islam, Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (12:76), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which brutally amputate the hands causing disability...

In Islam, no one is allowed to be killed or Stoned for adultery (24:2), Vs. Sunni and Shia laws of stoning married adulterers to death...

In Islam, absolute Freedom of Faith is allowed (2:256, 10:99; 18:29; 88:21-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths...

In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter ‘Muslim’ must work to attain the status of Faithful ‘Mumin’ (49:14), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)...

In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence - no offensives (2:190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standards...

In Islam, Pilgrimage is a centre for gathering of nations and for all to witness the benefits of being together (22:27-28), Vs. Sunni and Shia bringing in polytheistic rituals and superstition (touching of black stone, circling 7 times, etc..)...

In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (17:12, 9:36), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time…

In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (32:7), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases...

In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful (7:32-33, 16:116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all...

In Islam, rule of Government is under the constitution of the Qur'an through consultation and free-speech (5:48, 42:38). Vs. Sunni teachings which allow the rise of dictators or monarchs, and Shia teachings which uphold self-appointed religious leaders based on genealogy.

Therefore, the clearest difference is that Islam is a monotheistic, clear, consistent, dynamic, progressive, balanced system...a system that eliminates conjectures, hearsay, fairy tales and contradictions...therefore it eliminates hardship, confusion, chaos, and division. It is a system which puts more accent on the usage of intellect, reason, pondering over God, His Creation, meaning of life, pondering over everything...While the sects represent superstition, unfair treatment for non-cult members, inequality of the sexes, oppression of human rights, inability to contribute to human progress, amputations or physical violence, regression of ideas and thoughts to primitive levels of barbarism, and most importantly setting-up partners with the One True God and thus promoting polytheism.

God Alone

For the Sunnis and Shia who are shocked by the words they have been reading, we invite you to seek God Alone with your heart and your mind and to give-up all the previous wasted years of idolatry and polytheism that you have unknowingly been party to...For our Lord tells us that it is never too late to seek His forgiveness:

"Say: 'O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of God's mercy. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.'" (The Message 39:53)

But be warned, while only God knows the fate of an individual, by simply turning away without verifying what has been said here can bring the gravest of consequences:

"And who is more wicked than one who is reminded of his Lord’s verses but he turned away from them, and he forgot what his hands had done. We have made veils upon their hearts from understanding them, and a deafness in their ears. And if you invite them to the guidance, they will never be guided." (The Message 18:57)

Now ask yourself: Will God Alone be enough for you?

"And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!" (The Message 39:45)

Why is Islam for me?

This is what it all boils down to, a "what's in it for me" outlook that is very human and very natural...Well, the answers that may sway you to 'God Alone' and let you abandon your current faith, whatever the costs may be, are as follows...

"And if the town’s people had only believed and been aware, then We would have opened for them blessings from the sky and the land; but they denied, so We took them for what they used to earn." (The Message 7:96)

Islam guarantees victory (30:47, 22:38-39, 47-7).

Islam guarantees prosperity and abundance (7:96, 41:30-31).

Islam guarantees maximum freedom for the people - freedom of religion, freedom of expression, freedom to travel, and freedom of economy (2:256, 10:99, 88:21-22).

Islam guarantees human rights for all the people, regardless of their race, color, creed, social status, financial situation, or political affiliation (5:8, 49:13).

Islam guarantees a political system that is based on consultation and the freedom for open expression (42:38).

Islam guarantees a society that upholds and maintains the highest standards of moral behavior.

Islam guarantees a maximum regard for people's lives and properties.

Islam guarantees prevalence of love, courtesy, peace, and mutual respect among the people, and with other world communities (3:110, 60:8-9).

Islam guarantees environmental protection as a result of deterring pollution through conservation and prohibition of wasteful practices (30:41).

If you are convinced that a dignified, prosperous, righteous, logical, and practical way of life is your desire, then Islam is for you. You can begin to change your life immediately by putting-aside all that you have been raised to believe in and objectively taking a fresh-start by reading-up on the topics we discussed and many more in the words of God in His Book, and discover for yourself with no prejudice or interference.

"That is because God was not to change anything He bestowed to a people, unless they change what is in themselves. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable." (The Message 8:53)

"GOD ALONE"
SAY NO TO ANYTHING ELSE

Link:http://www.free-minds.org/

By quoting from the aforementioned website, my intent is simply to put forth an “Allah Only”, “Quraan Only” anti-sectarian, unifying view of Islam from practicing Muslims. As an anti-sectarian Muslim, I humbly suggest that we read and understand the Quraan as responsible Muslims, willfully submit ourselves to Allah at a deeply personal, meaning spiritual, intellectual and physical level, and utilize the guidance revealed in the Holy Quraan to attain personal and communal - not sectarian – happiness as Allah’s creations in this world and the next. Not surprisingly, my personal views of sectarianism and endless blame games are not at all positive based on my personal understanding of the Quraan. No offense is intended to those who are sectarian in their beliefs.

Such “Allah Only”, “Quraan Only” anti-sectarian, unifying view of Islam and various practices resulting from it are as old as The Holy Quraan itself. In my family, a traditionally “Shia” family with roots in Old Dhaka, my great-great grandfather came across such views during his pilgrimage to Mecca in the 1870s. Since then, being “Shia” has been a matter of cultural practices for our family in a traditionally tolerant, largely anti-sectarian “Sunni” Muslim community in Old Dhaka. The cultural practices revolve around the following tenets of "Shia" Islam: -

The Shia believe in the five pillars of Islam, as do Sunnis, but categorize them differently. Shia beliefs include the following:

I. Theology of Shia (Usūl al-Dīn)

1. Tawhīd (Oneness): The Oneness of God

2. Adalah (Justice): The Justice of God

3. Nubuwwah (Prophethood): God has appointed perfect and infallible prophets and messengers to teach mankind the religion (that is, a perfect system of how to live in "peace" ("submission to God"))

4. Imamah (Leadership): God has appointed specific leaders to lead and guide mankind — a prophet appoints a custodian of the religion before his demise

5. Qiyamah (The Day of Judgment): God will raise mankind for Judgment

II. Aspects of Religion (Furū al-Dīn)

1. Salat — called "Namaaz" in Persian — (Prayer) – Performing the five daily prayers (Prayers can be made up for at night)

2. Sawm — called "Roozeh" in Persian — (Fast) – fasting during the holy month of Ramadhan (Able to eat after the sun goes down)

3. Hajj (Pilgrimage) – performing the pilgrimage to Mecca (once in a lifetime)

4.Zakat (Poor-rate) – paying the poor-tax (2.5% of your wealth every year should go to the poor)

5. Khums (One-fifth of savings) – paying tax to the Imam (سهم امام)

6. Jihad (Struggle) – struggling to please the Almighty. The greater, or internal Jihad is the struggle against the evil within one's soul in every aspect of life. The lesser, or external, Jihad is the struggle against the evil of one's environment in every aspect of life. This is not to be mistaken with the common modern misconception that this means "Holy War". Writing the truth (jihad bil qalam) and speaking truth in front of an oppressor are also forms of Jihad.

7. Amr-Bil-Ma'rūf – commanding what is good

8. Nahi-Anil-Munkar – forbidding what is evil

9. Tawalla – loving the Ahlul Bayt and their followers

10. Tabarra – dissociating oneself from the enemies of the Ahlul Bayt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia
http://www.dmoz.org/Society/Religion_and_Spirituality/Islam/Shia/

Anybody familiar with the religious-cultural activities centered around Husseini Dalan in Old Dhaka can some shed light as to what they are and how they're related to the aforementioned fundamentals of the sect.

Based largely on anti-sectarian excerpts from the Holy Quraan, and a sermon from Ali Ibn Abi Talib's sermons quoted in Nahj al-Balagha, my forefathers understood the folly of all "my way or the highway" type of exclusivist, absolutist and divisive sectarianism, whatever form it takes within Islam.

Here are a couple of excerpts: -

The Qur'an, chapter 28 (Al-Qisas), verse 15: “ And he went into the city at a time of unvigilance on the part of its people, so he found therein two men fighting, one being of his party and the other of his foes, and he who was of his party cried out to him for help against him who was of his enemies, so Musa struck him with his fist and killed him. He said: This is on account of the Shaitan's doing; surely he is an enemy, openly leading astray"

Arabic: وَدَخَلَ الْمَدِينَةَ عَلَى حِينِ غَفْلَةٍ مِّنْ أَهْلِهَا فَوَجَدَ فِيهَا رَجُلَيْنِ يَقْتَتِلَانِ هَذَا مِن شِيعَتِهِ وَهَذَا مِنْ عَدُوِّهِ فَاسْتَغَاثَهُ الَّذِي مِن شِيعَتِهِ عَلَى الَّذِي مِنْ عَدُوِّهِ فَوَكَزَهُ مُوسَى فَقَضَى عَلَيْهِ قَالَ هَذَا مِنْ عَمَلِ الشَّيْطَانِ إِنَّهُ عَدُوٌّ مُّضِلٌّ مُّبِينٌ

The Qur'an, chapter 30 (Ar-Rum), verse 31 to 32: “ Turning to Him, and be careful of (your duty to) Him and keep up prayer and be not of the polytheists. Of those who divided their religion and became seas every sect rejoicing in what they had with them."

Arabic: مُنِيبِينَ إِلَيْهِ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعاً كُلُّ حِزْبٍ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ فَرِحُونَ


Imam Ali said: -

“ You should know that you have again reverted to the position of the [pagan] Bedouin Arabs after immigration to Islam, and have become different sects (Shia's) after having been once united. You do not possess anything of Islam except its name, and know nothing of belief save its show. You would throw down Islam on its face in order to defame its honor and break its pledge for brotherhood which Allah gave you as a sacred trust on His earth and a source of peace among the people. Be sure that if you incline towards anything other than Islam. the unbelievers will fight you. Then there will be neither Gabriel nor Michael, neither Muhajirun nor Ansar to help you, but only the clashing of swords, till Allah settles the matter for you…You have broken the shackles of Islam, have transgressed its limits, and have destroyed its commands! ”

Intermarriages with Sunnis in my family have been commonplace since that memorable pilgrimage to the Holy City, and each person in my family is free to worship as they feel, think and see fit. One of my uncles, born and raised in New Zealand of all places, participated in the Islamic Revolution in Iran upon his graduation from Al Azhar, and is an “orthodox Shia” so to speak. His Egyptian wife is a traditional “Sunni” Muslim sympathetic to but not a member of Hizbut Tahrir. By the infinite grace of Allah they have a genuinely happy marriage as they have managed to find a common ground in the Holy Quraan, the Hadith, mutual good faith and love. Their children and grandchildren are systematically exposed to the Holy Quraan, the particular Shia and Sunni ways of practicing Islam, and are free to choose their way of worship as they wish, or not to worship at all. Only Allah knows what is truly in the hearts and minds of His creations and only He can accord the inevitable judgments that await us all. Such unions, though discouraged by the sectarian leadership, are not uncommon in the scholarly culture Al Azhar and other Muslim Communities other than sectarian orthodoxies the Gulf, parts of rural Iran, Southern Central Asia, most of South Asia except notably Bangladesh, and Southeast Asia except Thailand and parts of Indonesia.

My late grandfather and father considered any such labels to be divisive, sectarian and ultimately blasphemous, and based their ways of worship solely on the divine authority and guidance of the Holy Quraan, and the interpretations, insights and opinions of Muslim scholars throughout the ages. Islam for them was also an “intellectual” deen (Way) and they were naturally erudite in their own thoughts with regards to those the interpretations, insights and opinions – as the single most necessary component of that “intellectual” deen besides holistic Allah-consciousness. They saw such commitment as a responsibility as thinking Muslims for whom Islam is more than the comforting but divisive conformity in the cultural practices one is simply born into.

They and many others since the revelation of the Holy Quraan clearly understood the role Muslim scholars and luminaries must play as Muslims without appointing themselves de facto priests and intermediaries between Allah and man’s salvation, despite semantic claims to the contrary. The Holy Quraan itself warns of this phenomenon that can lead people astray by creating divisions with the “my way or the highway” approach, and assigning de facto partnerships to that salvation in a manner akin to the Catholic Church. In an age where both literacy, access to information and more detailed, context and semiotics-based translations and transliterations of Quraanic Arabic are becoming more and more commonplace, the roles of scholars in Islam - already limited because of Islam’s prohibition of priesthood – must evolve accordingly in order to accommodate these Information Age realities very different from perhaps any other age in human history. On the other hand, those scholars intentionally and inadvertently benefiting from divisions, exclusions, seem ultimately interested in nothing other than the conviction of their vanity.

It is up to each individual Muslim to choose - according to all of their circumstances in this world and subsequent the intellectual and spiritual limitations they have placed upon themselves with regards to their individual abilities as ordained by Allah – what sort of role what kind of scholar is to play in his or her life and to what end as an individual Muslim living this life as an integral part of his/her community and the world.

My younger brother and I subscribe to the way of our forefathers not because we have had the benefit of being born into it, but because that is where we find ourselves as individuals in this existential journey. We read, get inspired by, think about and internalize the guidance revealed Quraan as a we pray, we fast, we serve our communities, we meet our financial, ethical and moral obligations, we endeavor to refrain from unkind acts to ourselves - meaning the indivisible unity of our spirit, intellect and body - and everyone and everything in the world around us, and we humbly struggle for justice as the extension of cultivating and nurturing that kindness.

For me personally as an anti-sectarian Muslim, the defining principle of being one is love of Allah, and the manifestation of that love through the diligent cultivation of kindness, and social justice as an extension of that kindness. Kindness starts with oneself by taking care of the self and discarding the ego by willfully submitting to Allah, by taking care of one’s family and community, and by understanding that Allah is the ONLY omniscient and omnipotent judge of all things, and nobody will escape HIS judgment in this world or the moment of our death.

Islam as per the Holy Quraan is also an "intellectual" Deen (Way) without priesthood - de facto or any other kind intermediary between Allah and man's existential and other salvation - and every individual Muslim has the responsibility to exercise his or her Allah given faculties, nurture and enhance those faculties through discipline and scholarship, and apply the guidance of the divine revelation of the Holy Quraan in everyday life wholeheartedly and holistically.

The concept of “authorization” of books other than the Quraan with regards to the Messenger (PBUH) and other concerns are addressed with Quraanic references in the easy to explore website and my quotation from the website. I personally find equating, for all practical purposes, the reverence for a revealed text to man made text, and empowering scholars restricted in their role according to the revelation, to the point of becoming intermediaries between Allah and our salvation, nothing less than heartbreaking and tragic. No intentional or inadvertently semantic twists or doublespeak can mitigate the actual power relations at play there. Some of those power relations become dangerous once they seek to impose knowledge masquerading as debate with its own set of absolutist dogmas and rules of men, and exercise power without the possibility of role reversal and playing GOD in their judgments. Divisions with easy answers in a world where other men do the thinking for us, ultimately benefit those who profit from such divisions as a source of socio-political power. There is great indignity in speaking for others in a universe created by the only omniscient and omnipotent Creator who has created it in ways we’re just beginning to understand as modern scientific knowledge since Einstein, Bohr, Heisenberg, Chaos Theory, the Human Genome Project, and incredible advances since in physics, chemistry, biology and mathematics.

The Quraan was revealed for the benefit of all of mankind, not as a “rocket science” to an elite few to interpret and try to impose its meaning upon others by intentionally and inadvertently taking advantage of our needs and senses of inadequacy, submission and wonder. We are all born with natural, Allah-given abilities that may be nurtured and enhanced through scholarly and other endeavors, but those value additions in no way allow for a de facto priesthood for us to sheepishly follow by assigning such prohibitive and from my daily readings of the Holy Quraan - prohibited partnerships.

Scholars, according the Quraan, have a very limited role to play in our lives as weathermen out to tell everyone which way the wind blows. Sadly all too often we accord them the power to do the thinking for us, and take the easy way of the sheep. Another story, but as good-hearted, intelligent and literate Muslims in the Information Age of the 21st century, our individual application of Islam in spirit, mind and body as inseparable components of individual existence in this life is imperative as a way to be happy in this world, as a part of this world, and in the world to come.

Peace, Sohel

(also posted in another thread)

al Furqaan
October 2, 2007, 04:36 PM
excellent posts by both banglatiger84 and Sohel bhais.

al Furqaan
October 2, 2007, 04:48 PM
Because what is hadeeth? It has to be the word of the holy prophet, or his deed or his silent support to any deed. The above example din't fall in this catagory, so of course this is not a hadeeth.

i agree about the lack of actual evidence that Aisha (ra) was 6...but even if she were, it wouldn't really matter to me much, as i have other evidences that Muhammad was indeed the final Messenger of God.

Also, the hadeeths are memorised just like Quran. Until the invention of paper and printing, hadeeth was preserved the the way Quran was preserved-memorising. While memorising, and reporting hadeeths, sahabae keram mentioned not only the exact words of the prophet, but also exactly from whom they have heard or memorised the hdeeth.

here i must ask a few questions. some hadith are memorized, but the importance of hifzu quran has always been more important. plus as BT bhai said, Allah only promised to guard the quran and not the hadith. this is the crux of my argument.

sahibe ekram were holy persons and i do not believe that they would mislead others by willfully changing the sayings or teachings of the prophet. but they were fallible and thus could have made mistakes in transmitting the hadith.

then of course there are those who came much later than the tabe tabeen who could have intentionally changed the content of the hadith.

if there are so called islamic scholars or alims who today use islam as a political smokescreen and excuse to further their personal un-islamic agendas, then it could have happened 1000 years ago as well.

the proof is that even within respected "authentic" books like sahih al bukhari you have contradictory hadith.

personally, to me it matters little if the hadith i read was actually said by the prophet (saw) or not. what is of utmost importance is if the said hadith is in accordance with the spirit of the quran. if it is then it should be accepted and if not then it should be rejected.

Hatebreed
October 2, 2007, 05:28 PM
the proof is that even within respected "authentic" books like sahih al bukhari you have contradictory hadith.

personally, to me it matters little if the hadith i read was actually said by the prophet (saw) or not. what is of utmost importance is if the said hadith is in accordance with the spirit of the quran. if it is then it should be accepted and if not then it should be rejected.

Couldn't agree more. It has recently become very transparent to me these contradictions exist in hadith, especially al-Bukhari.

FROM SAHIH BUKHARI - VOLUME 9, #506:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri that during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relations with them without impregnating them. So they asked the prophet about coitus interruptus. The prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection". Qaza'a said, "I heard Abu Said saying that the prophet said, "No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it."1. The meaning can be lost in translation. First of all, does the above hadith imply "forced" sexual intercourse? Would intercourse under any cirumstance be permitted before marriage? Was the Prophet (PBUH) fully aware of under what circumstances the question about "coitus interruptus" was asked to him?

2. There is too many "I heard him say that person saying this". It creates confusion, loses the authencity, meaning and intent of the original statement, if it was made at all.

3. Non-Muslims often use the hadith as concrete proof to argue "questionable" acts in Islam, but it may contradict another hadith in the same book, or because there is/there is no explicit mention in the Qu'ran that contradicts the hadith.

So who is to blame? How to counter these contradictions?

sufism
October 3, 2007, 02:19 AM
Very informative and enlightining. Pls carry on.

BD-Shardul
October 3, 2007, 03:07 AM
i agree about the lack of actual evidence that Aisha (ra) was 6...but even if she were, it wouldn't really matter to me much, as i have other evidences that Muhammad was indeed the final Messenger of God.



here i must ask a few questions. some hadith are memorized, but the importance of hifzu quran has always been more important. plus as BT bhai said, Allah only promised to guard the quran and not the hadith. this is the crux of my argument.

sahibe ekram were holy persons and i do not believe that they would mislead others by willfully changing the sayings or teachings of the prophet. but they were fallible and thus could have made mistakes in transmitting the hadith.

then of course there are those who came much later than the tabe tabeen who could have intentionally changed the content of the hadith.

if there are so called islamic scholars or alims who today use islam as a political smokescreen and excuse to further their personal un-islamic agendas, then it could have happened 1000 years ago as well.

the proof is that even within respected "authentic" books like sahih al bukhari you have contradictory hadith.

personally, to me it matters little if the hadith i read was actually said by the prophet (saw) or not. what is of utmost importance is if the said hadith is in accordance with the spirit of the quran. if it is then it should be accepted and if not then it should be rejected.


Asad Bhai,

I challenge you to come up with an example of a saheeh hadeeth that does not agree with the spirit of the Quran.

The hadeeths, which are in the "Sittah Sihah", are 100% exact of what our prophet uttered.

You will only find hadeeths that doesn't agree with the spirit of the Quran either in weak traditions or Shia Kafi book, which by the way contains nothing but completely [বাংলা]বিকৃত[/বাংলা] hadeeths.

BD-Shardul
October 3, 2007, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by Sohel NR

5. Khums (One-fifth of savings) – paying tax to the Imam (سهم امام

:-|:-|:-|:-| :wave::wave::wave:

Kabir
October 3, 2007, 08:13 AM
The hadeeths, which are in the "Sittah Sihah", are 100% exact of what our prophet uttered.

Shardul bhai, please, can you enlighten me on "Sittah Sihah" hadiths? As far as I knew, all hadiths have been written by the followers of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). And that's where the actual problem arises from. Is "Sittah Sihah" type of hadiths any different from these?

I'm asking from a complete lack of knowledge about this.

BD-Shardul
October 3, 2007, 11:43 AM
Shardul bhai, please, can you enlighten me on "Sittah Sihah" hadiths? As far as I knew, all hadiths have been written by the followers of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). And that's where the actual problem arises from. Is "Sittah Sihah" type of hadiths any different from these?

I'm asking from a complete lack of knowledge about this.

Inshallah I will reply, probably tomorrow.

Sohel
October 3, 2007, 10:46 PM
Elements of the Sunnah, particularly unifying practices resulting from the traditions, may have many conditional positives also. If those practices are inspired by and designed in the spirit of the Quraan, and do not become purely ritualistic ends in themselves, they can indeed bring people closer together and create justice in communities.

On the matter of the 5 pillars, IMHO the most fundamental and potentially useful of elements of the Sunnah, I am in total agreement with the traditional views of, among others, scholars such as Sheikh Hamza Yususf and Imam Zaid Shakir. I personally practice all 5 pillars in the somewhat orthodox manner - as long as there is no "shirk" either in my spirit, mind and heart - for the benefit of Islamic unity while keeping the ONLY the Quraan and its mandates in my spirit, heart and mind.

It is not enough, IMHO, just to adhere to the 5 pillars of our traditions, but one must adhere to those pillars without losing sight of their connections with the spirit of the revelation as the individual Muslim feels, sees and thinks fit. Allah-consciousness must permeate every moment of every ritual for those rituals to keep our spirits, our minds and our hearts and bodies upon the straight path as revealed in the Holy Quraan.

I do not believe as some of my fellow anti-sectarian, "Allah only" travelers do that the Sunnah as expressed through the 5 pillars and the straight path as written in the Holy Quraan need to be mutually exclusive in practice. It is very much possible to practice elements of the Sunnah and NOT break our covenant with Allah, provided that those practices are neither purely ritualistic devoid of individual and deeply internalized meanings and experiences, nor undertaken in anything contrary to the Spirit of the Quraan. If those practices are not imposed or coerced into the hearts of its parishioners who willfully and consciously submit to the Allah as revealed in the Holy Quraan, they do indeed become critical toolkits to consolidate our covenant with Allah.

Let us look at the 5 pillars that for a common ground between Sunnis and Shias. I'm not going to go into specific Shia practices with regards to Khums (One-fifth of savings paid as community tax to the Imam), Jihad (struggling to please the Almighty. The greater, or internal Jihad is the struggle against the evil within one's soul in every aspect of life. The lesser, or external, Jihad is the struggle against the evil of one's environment in every aspect of life. This is not to be mistaken with the common modern misconception that this means "Holy War". Writing the truth or jihad bil qalam and speaking truth in front of an oppressor are also forms of Jihad), Amr-Bil-Ma'ruf (commanding what is good), Nahi-Anil-Munkar (forbidding what is evil), Tawalla (loving the Ahlul Bayt and their followers) and the Imamah (Allah has appointed specific leaders to lead and guide mankind — a prophet appoints a custodian of the religion before his demise), and Tabarra (dissociating oneself from the enemies of the Ahlul Bayt as the Rightly guided practitioners and leaders of Islam) at this point. We have: -

1. Shahada.
2. Salat.
3. Zakat.
4. Sawm.
5. Hajj.

Some of my fellow travelers have things to say about the 5 pillars, and from their point of view they are right, but again I must reiterate that I personally do not feel that if the 5 pillars are practiced - not mechanically or as an expression of religious-cultural practice devoid of Allah consciousness as per the spirit of the Quraan - but as holistic expression of man's wilfull submission to Allah as revealed in the Quraan through His Messenger (PBUH) - they do not necessarily contradict the deeper meanings inherent in their critique. The 5 pillars then can in fact, as it has for many ever since the revelation of Islam, nullify the objections raised by my brother, create formal disciplne and unity in the lives of Muslims and complement other forms of our total submission to Allah through exoteric practices.

Here is a passionate article on the Shahada, the links on the other 4 pillars are provided at the bottom: -

THE SHAHADA

The prophet Abraham who, although not a Jew or a Christian, was such an excellent example that God commanded his Messenger Muhammad to follow him. And Mohammed responded by saying:

"I have submitted my wholeself to God and so have those who follow me..."

Why then have millions of people been entrapped into following the teachings of Abu Hurairah a mysterious person from the shadows of Hadith literature? Could it be that they have rejected the teaching of Quran while believing they have not done so? God says:

" Have you noted those who only know part of the scripture, and when invited to adopt God's law, they turn away in aversion?.... That is because they are deceived in their faith by their own inventions." (Quran: 3:23-24)

The Shahadah

To profess their faith in Islam the Sunnis make this declaration: "I bear witness that there is no god except God and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of God. " (Arabic transliteration: "Ash hadu anlaa ilaaha illallaahu wa ash hadu anna muhammadar-rasulallah"). This testimony is called the Shahadah and according to Sunni belief it must be recited by every Muslim as an attestation of their allegiance to Islam. Consequently any person who does not 'bear witness' is not accepted as a Muslim by them.

However this testimony is not sanctioned by the true teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, which are found in the Quran, the veritable word of God.

Many people may feel astounded at this statement especially as the Shahadah is considered to be the foundation of Sunni faith. This is why it is important to take a careful and critical look before reaching any impulsive conclusions.

For the Sunni, the purpose of the Shahadah is many folds. For example without reciting the Shahadah, the Sunnis consider their salat prayer to be nullified. Also before a newcomer is accepted into the Sunni religion, a public declaration by reciting the Shahadah in front of witnesses must be made. In some countries converts are given a "certificate" after reciting the Shahadah to confirm they have been "admitted" into the Islamic fold. However, it is not known if such "certificates" are also a complimentary pass into heaven!

To associate anything or anyone with God is known as 'shirk', the highest degree of blasphemy, which God does not forgive. This is made clear in chapter 4 verse 48. The Quran also stipulates that Muslims must profess faith in the One God and not call on anyone else. The Shahadah, therefore, cannot be the correct way to affirm faith as the name of the prophet Muhammad, besides God, is included in this attestation and also used in the salat prayers.

People blindly following their religion are the root of wrong beliefs. This acceptance of the Shahadah is no different. If only people read and understand the Quran then they would realize that God revealed the following verse to the Messenger which is just as applicable to us today as it was to him:

"Do not accept anything that you yourself cannot verify. Surely your hearing, your eyesight and your mind will be questioned" Sura 17:36.

God wants us to substantiate our beliefs and we should follow His advice.

Abu Hurairah

The Shahadah testimony that is recited by the Sunnis originates from Abu Hurairah and is recorded in the 'hadith' - the oral traditions attributed to the prophet Muhammad. The hadith given below is from "Mishkat-ul-Masabih", translation by Maulana Fazlul Karim, Volume 1, Chapter 1, no.27. (Published by the Book House, Lahore, Pakistan). As there are a many versions of this hadith, the collections of Tirmidzi should also be read.

The hadith regarding the Shahadah says:

One day Abu Hurairah went to the people and told them that the Messenger had authorised him to go and tell them to recite the Shahadah "ash hadu anlaa ilaha illallhu wa ash hadu anna muhammadar-rasulullah". Another version reads "muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluhu". The first person Abu Hurairah came across to give the Shahadah was Saidina Omar (later the second caliph). When Omar heard it he promptly punched Abu Hurairah in the chest and knocked him to the ground. Then Omar put his foot on Abu Hurairah's neck and asked him how dare he utter such a blasphemy.

Abu Hurairah (who is recorded in the hadith as having received quite u few beatings from Saidina Omar during his lifetime) then cried out and named the Messenger as his authority. When again challenged by Saidina Omar, Abu Hurairah pulled out a pair of leather slippers and showed them to Omar. The slippers, he said, were given to him by the Prophet, as proof for what he was saying. Recognising the prophet's slippers, Omar simmered down. Everyone then happily started reciting the shahadah. This most incredible story is the background to the Shahadah of Abu Hurairah, which has been adopted by millions of Sunnis.

In the Quran God says,

"The believers are kind to each other and firm with the disbelievers..." Sura 5:54.

Hence the 'hadith' books are full of stories of how great friends the companions of the prophet (known as 'Sahaba') were and the love and kindness they showed towards each other.

Fourteen centuries down the road today the Tabligh people (sunni missionaries) always greet each other with hugs and kisses, supposedly to emulate the brotherly Sahaba. But in this particular 'hadith', we have one Sahaba knocking another down to the ground for bringing along something as important as the Shahadah!

In another account of this same episode, Omar is reported as challenging the Messenger if he did indeed send Abu Hurairah with his slippers to recite the Shahadah. When the Messenger said yes, Omar disagreed with him and said the Shahadah will make people "lazy"! Whatever the logic of this hadith can be left for the hadith advocates to explain. Yet again the narrator of this fabrication is Abu Hurairah.

About the believers and the companions of the prophet, and Omar was one of them, the Quran says;

"The only thing the believers utter when invited to heed God and His messenger and uphold His law is 'we hear and we obey". These are the winners". Sura 24:51

Abu Hurairah's ridiculous fable not only contradicts the above verse but also contradicts Sura 6:51 where God tells the Messenger (and by implication the companions and whomever the Quran reaches):

"You shall preach WITH THE Quran to those who reverence the gathering before their Lord..."

Instead Abu Hurairah said that the Prophet handed over his pair of slippers to him and told him to preach with the slippers in hand as proof of authenticity. By his confession Abu Hurairah was beaten by Omar, who argued with the Prophet and said that the Shahadah was unwise. Does the basis of a Muslim's faith rest on such an absurd tale? Surely this cannot be part of Islam, which is based on reason and logic?

No one seems to know the correct identity of this Abu Hurairah even today scholars cannot agree on his real name. Despite there being a hadith (also attributed to Abu Hurairah) that we should not call people by nicknames, Abu Hurairah is itself a nickname which means "the Father of Cats". So the originator of the Sunni Shahadah was an unknown man who was attacked unceremoniously by another companion of the Messenger! It is now apparent that there is significant evidence to show that the Shahadah testimony of the Sunni people has a very dubious background based on ludicrous hadith falsely attributed to the prophet Muhammad whom they claim to love!

How then does Abu Hurairah's Shahadah contradict the Prophet's true teachings? The Quran was revealed by God to the prophet Muhammad who then passed on this message, first to the companions and then to the rest of the people. Besides being God's own revelation, the Quran represents what was actually said by the prophet Muhammad. Anyone who rejects this simple fact cannot at all claim to be a Muslim.

So what did God commanded the Messenger to tell us?

"The mosques belong to God, do not call on anyone else besides God" Sura 72:18.

However, in the Shahadah of Abu Hurairah, the Sunnis call on the Messenger as well as God. The Sunni scholars will argue that the mention of the Messenger's name is only out of respect. But then in the same breath, they will insist that the salat prayer to God Almighty is nullified if the prophet Muhammad's name is not mentioned in the Shahadah during the salat prayer. This is tantamount to idolatry as associating another person with God is committing 'shirk' the unforgivable offence.

God Alone

The human has a major weakness. He finds it difficult to believe in an unseen God. Even the Prophet Moses had this problem.

"When Moses came to our audience, and His Lord spoke to him, he said, "My Lord let me look and see you". He said, "You cannot see Me..." Sura, 7:143.

The human looks for something tangible, hence the Christians first elevated Jesus to a Son of God and then to the status of God Himself. The Hindus worship humans like Rama and Krishna who they say are gods. The Sunnis have similarly idolized the Prophet Muhammad and have given him a divine status by adding his name to the Shahadah testament and appropriately the Sunnis can be called "Mohammedan".

To remind them of this folly will only raise their anger. Perhaps they do not know that it is the Prophet Muhammad himself who taught the following:

"When God alone is advocated, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink with aversion. But when OTHERS are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice" Sura 39:45.

Note how angry the Mohammedan become when you mention God alone. Their anger subsides only when you agree to add "Muhammad" as the second half of Abu Hurairah's Shahadah which reads ". And I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of God" (Arabic transliteration: wa ash hadu anna muhammadar rasulullah).

God revealed to the Messenger that this is actually the Shahadah of the hypocrites (Arabic: Munafiq).

"Among the Arabs around you there are hypocrites, and among the city dwellers as well. They persist in hypocrisy and while you (Muhammad) may not know them, me know them. We will double the punishment for them, then they will be returned for a terrible retribution" Sura 9:101.

Here God is telling the Messenger that hypocrites surround him and that he does not know who they are. Only God knows the hypocrites. But God promises

"... He will most certainly expose the hypocrites" Sura 29:11.

And the hypocrites are worried about this too:

"The hypocrites are afraid lest a verse may expose what they hide in their hearts. Say, "Keep on scoffing. God will surely expose what you fear" Sura 9:64.

Hypocrites Exposed

God also says that the hypocrites can be recognized by way they engage in vain talk.

"If we will we can expose them for you, so that you can recognize them just by looking at them. However you can recognize them from what they say. God is fully aware of all your works". Sura, 47:30.

Hence God promises to expose the hypocrites. One such method is recorded in the Quran in Sura 63:1.

"When the hypocrites come to you and say: "WE BEAR WITNESS THAT YOU ARE THE MESSENGER OF GOD. God indeed knows that you are His Messenger. God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars".

The important thing to note in this verse is that the emphasized words form the second part of Abu Hurairah's Shahadah, which is now recited by all Mohammedan. This as we see from the verse 63.1 is actually the Shahadah of the hypocrites! What the hypocrites say is vain talk because God indeed knows that Muhammad is His Messenger (63:1). God does not need any one to affirm back to Him what He already knows about His own Messenger.

The Quran says;

"We have sent you as a Messenger and GOD SUFFICES AS A WITNESS..." Sura 4:79

and this is exactly what the Messenger told his companions. There is no need to bear witness on him because God has already done so and that is enough.

"God bears witness concerning what He has revealed to you. He has revealed it with His knowledge. And the angels bear witness as well, BUT GOD IS ENOUGH AS A WITNESS" Sura 4:166.

Again this is what the Messenger told the companions. God is enough as a witness. God also discourages attempts at witnessing other Messengers:

"You were not on the slope of the western Mount when we gave Moses the commandments. YOU WERE NOT A WITNESS" Sura 28:44.

So people cannot "witness" the messengership of the Messengers.

To reiterate, God says He will certainly expose the hypocrites (sura 29:11). God says the Messenger can recognize them from what they say (sura 47:30). So when the hypocrites come and insist that they want to bear witness on the Messenger, they expose themselves as hypocrites. And Abu Hurairah (if he really existed) has fooled millions of Muslims into reciting the same thing everyday of their lives.

The first part of Abu Hurairah's Shahadah is "I bear witness that there is no god except God". (Arabic transliteration: "ash hadu anlaa ilaaha illallah).

The Quran says:

"God bears witness that there is no god except He, and so do the angels and those endowed with knowledge, in truth and justice. There is no god except He, the mighty, the wise" Sura 3:18.

God is enough as a Witness

Again God says that His own witness is enough:

"Say, Whose testimony is the greatest'' Say, "God's (testimony is the greatest). HE IS THE WITNESS BETWEEN ME AND YOU that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches.." Sura, 6:19.

Because

"... God suffices as a witness..." Sura 4:79 and 4:166.

the Shahadah as proclaimed by Abu Hurairah is therefore a lie – a fabrication by whoever wrote the 'hadith'. If we do not even have his true identity, how do we know if Abu Hurairah existed at all?

Despite the evidence of the Quran, which no Muslim will deny is the truest teaching of the Messenger, the hypocrites insist on bearing witness to Muhammad's Messengership. They insist on bearing witness when God says He needs no other witness apart from Himself.

Most importantly, the Shahadah of Abu Hurairah, by its purpose, goes against Sura 72:18 and Sura 39:45 in that it associates the Messenger's name with God. Without bearing witness on the Messenger, the Sunnis say that the salat prayer and faith are void. Even though by evidence from the Quran this is shown to be "shirk" of the highest order. Each time people say the Sunni Shahadah they are committing "shirk", the unpardonable blasphemy for which they may burn in hell.

The True Declaration

What then is the real attestation, which Muslims can recite to affirm their faith? Perhaps when the companions asked the Messenger this question, he would have replied:

"The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the hearer, the knower". Sura 6:114

Therefore the answer is definitely in the Quran and to show the correct attestation of faith, the Prophet Abraham is an excellent example.

"Whose religion is better than one who SUBMITS himself to God, works righteousness and follows the faith Of Abraham the monotheist? God has chosen Abraham as a beloved friend". Sura, 4:125.

Remember that this verse was revealed to the Messenger and this is what the Messenger then imparted to his companions and all the people through the Quran. Therefore we too must follow the faith Of Abraham.

"Thus who would then forsake the faith of Abraham, except those who fool themselves? We have chosen him in this life, and in the hereafter he will be with the righteous" Sura 2:130.

Only fools will forsake the faith Of Abraham. Therefore unless people want to be considered as fools, it would be better to do what Abraham did. And what did Abraham do?

The next verse tells us:

"When his Lord said to him "SUBMIT" he said, "I SUBMIT TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS" (Arabic: Aslamtu Li Rabbil Aalameen) Sura 2:131.

So here we have it. When God showed Abraham the perfect religion, He commanded Abraham to Submit ("Aslimu") and Abraham said "Aslamtu li rabbil aalameen". This is how MUSLIMS should attest their faith.

Now it is clear that Muslims cannot attest their faith by witnessing a Messenger or God, especially as they cannot be seen. Witnessing on Muhammad's messengership is just the idolization of one prophet. Giving distinction to one messenger above another is strictly forbidden in the Quran as mentioned in verses 2.285 and 4.150-152.

The story of Abraham continues in the next verse:

"The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons and also Jacob, "O My sons, God has chosen for you the true faith, therefore DIE NOT SAVE AS MEN WHO HAVE SUBMITTED". Sura 2:132

Abraham enjoined his sons to believe in the same things he did. He also successfully enjoined his people to say the same thing "Aslamtu li rabbil aalameen" which means "I submit myself to the Lord of the Worlds". This is revealed in the next verse:

"Or were you present when death came to Jacob, when he said unto his sons, 'What will you worship after me?" They said, 'We shall worship thy God, the God of thy fathers Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac, One God, and UNTO HIM WE HAVE SUBMITTED" Sura 2:133.

This is the truth about how Abraham submitted himself to God, as it was revealed to the Messenger through the Quran. And the Messenger is commanded to follow Abraham:

"And they say, "Be Jews or Christians, then you will be rightly guided. "Say; "No, We follow the faith of Abraham, the upright, and he was not of the idolaters" Sura 2:135.

"Say, 'We believe in God and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham..." Sura, 2:136.

And the message that was revealed to Abraham is disclosed once more to us in the Quran and preserved carefully for posterity. As for those who reject these truths, God says,

"Or do you say that Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say "Do you know best or does God? And who is more unjust than he who conceals a testimony he has received from God. God is not unaware of what you do" Sura 2:140.

So why do people hide this testimony? Abraham declared "Aslamtu li rabbil aalameen" (I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds) and he enjoined this upon his sons and upon Jacob.

The Prophet Muhammad and the companions have been given the same testimony. So why do they hide this testimony and replace it with a Shahadah of the hypocrites?
There is no doubt that the prophet Muhammad followed the faith of Abraham.

"And we inspired you (Muhammad) to FOLLOW THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM, he who was naturally upright, he was never an idolater" Sura 16:123.

The Prophet did exactly as God commanded him. If anyone wants to become a Muslim should they then not follow the prophet Muhammad's example that affirmed his faith in the same way as Abraham?

"Those among mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and this prophet, and those who believe, and God is the protecting friend of the believers". Sura, 3:68.

Say, (Muhammad) "I am forbidden to worship those whom you call besides God, since there has come to me clear proofs from God, and I AM COMMANDED TO SUBMIT TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS (wa umirtu un aslima li rabbil aalameen) Sura 40:66.

But what if the people like the hypocrites come and insist that they want to bear witness on the Messenger and bear witness on God? What do you tell them?

The answer, as always, is in the Quran:

"And if they argue with you (Muhammad) say: "I HAVE SUBMITTED MY WHOLE SELF TO GOD (aslamtu waj hiyu lillah) and so have those who follow me..." Sura 3:20.

The Messenger and his companions simply submitted themselves to God:

"Say "Shall we call those things besides God, which can neither harm us nor benefit us, and shall we turn back after God has guided us - like one possessed by the devils, who has companions (sahaba!) Who invite him, saying "Come to us?" Say, 'The guidance of God is indeed true guidance and WE ARE COMMANDED TO SUBMIT TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS (wa umirna li nuslimn li rabbil aalameen)" Sura 6:71

The Messenger and his companions simply submitted to the Lord of the worlds. If Abu Hurairah, or any other person, comes and asks a Muslim to join him in bearing witness over God and His Messenger, the answer must be to say "No!" We are commanded To SUBMIT To the Lord of the Worlds (aslamtu li rabbil aalameen).

The Quran also gives an incident of the prophet Solomon and the Queen of Sheba as another example of submission to God. It records the moment when the Queen reverts to Islam. She was an idolater and Solomon had invited her to Islam. To prove the greatness of God, Solomom used powers given to him to move the Queen of Sheba's magnificent palace intact, from one place to another in the blink of an eye.
Seeing this, she realized God's power, immediately repented and said,

"Rabbi inn salamtu nafsin, wa aslamtu ma'a Sulaimaana, lillaahi rabbiul aalameen" which means, "... Oh my Lord, indeed I have wronged my soul. I SUBMIT MYSELF ALONG WITH SOLOMON, TO GOD THE LORD OF THE WORLDS" Sura, 27:44.

Therefore it is now apparent that the mysterious Abu Hurairah has indeed made many people wrong their souls. Each time you try to bear witness on the Messenger and God, not only do you wrong your souls but also you make fools of yourselves because you forsake the faith of Abraham (Sura 2:130).

To affirm their faith Muslims should use the examples given in the Quran. What they should say is "I SUBMIT MYSELF TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS". (Arabic: Aslamtu li rabbil aalameen). Others who have affirmed their faith in this way are the Prophets Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Solomon and of course the Prophet Muhammad (Sura 40:66). Also the Queen of Sheba and the companions of the Prophet did the same. If you adopt their way, you will be in good company.

As for those who insist on following the deceitful Abu Hurairah into the hellfire, God says,

'who does more wrong than one whom invents a lie against God? They will be returned to the presence of their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "THESE ARE THE ONES WHO LIED AGAINST THEIR LORD, Behold, the curse of God is on those who do wrong. THOSE WHO HINDER MEN FROM THE PATH OF GOD AND WOULD SEEK IN IT SOMETHING CROOKED, these were they who denied the hereafter". Sura 11:18-19.

"We have sent you as a Messenger And God suffices as a witness..." (Quran Sura 4:79.) " When his Lord said to him "Submit" he said " I submit to the Lord of the Worlds" (Quran Sura 2:131)

Shahadah: http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/testimony.htm
Salat: http://www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat.htm
Zakat: http://www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/zakat.htm
Sawm: http://www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/ramadhan.htm
Hajj: http://www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/hajj.htm

Sohel
October 4, 2007, 02:52 AM
Here's some more food for thought: -

Quranic Principles about the position of 'Hadeeth and Sunnah' in Islam
By brother Mujahid (e-mail: mquran@yahoo.com)

The Quran, the final scripture from God to humankind is considered to be the first source of Islam. Hadeeth and Sunnah which is considered to be the secondary source in Islam, must find its validation from the Quran. The Quran is from God, after all, while Hadeeth and Sunnah , even if from the Prophet himself, are from humans.

PRINCIPLE 1 :

By the Book that makes THINGS CLEAR (Quran : 44.2)

PRINCIPLE 2 :

Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than God? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, EXPLAINED IN DETAIL." (Quran : 6.114)

PRINCIPLE 3:

God has revealed the most beautiful Message in the form of a Book, CONSISTENT WITH ITSELF repeating itself in various ways (Quran : 39.23)

PRINCIPLE 4:

And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of REASONING will be enquired into (Quran : 17.36).

PRINCIPLE 5:

Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than God, they would surely have found therein MANY CONTRADICTIONS (Quran : 4.82).

PRINCIPLE 6:

Blessed is He who sent down THE CRITERIA to His servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures (Quran : 25.1)

Putting these 6 principles into simpler terms:

1- The Quran MAKES THINGS CLEAR or it clarifies things

2- The Quran is EXPLAINED IN DETAIL

3- The Quran is CONSISTENT IN ITSELF and so will use appropriate terminology for the same concepts

4- Anything which is to be accepted as 'knowledge' must be either seen, heard or reasoned..

5- If anything is from God, it will be consistent. On the other hand, if it is from humankind, it will contain many contradictions.

6- The Quran also calls itself AL-furqan or the criterion which shows that it's position must be the starting point by which to judge.


These principles may be brief, but you will see them being demonstrated throughout the Quran. Hadeeth and Sunnah must fall within their criteria if it is to be accepted in Islam.

Please see the following verse :

O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does God make clear the Signs to you: for God is full of knowledge and wisdom. (Quran 24.58)

It's so very clear and detailed ! Even a number (three) is given , showing how detailed the Quran is.

Lets see a further demonstration :

O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as God Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord God, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of God, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear God; For it is Good that teaches you. And God is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And God knoweth all that ye do. (Quran : 2.282)

So we cannot accuse the Quran of not being clear , fully-detailed and consistent simply because we cannot find our ideas in it.

Let us now apply our principles to the idea of 'hadeeth and sunnah' :

PRINCIPLE 1 : The Quran makes things clear or clarifies things.

The supporters of hadeeth and sunnah have had to rely on half verses and verses taken out of context in order to make us believe they are part of Islam. Among these verses are :

1. 'obey Allah and obey the messenger' (even though the Quran clearly defines the messengers only inspiration)

2. 'in the messenger you will find a beautiful example' (even though the Quran clearly commands him to follow the way of Ibrahim, which is found in the Quran itself)

3. 'whatever the messenger gives you, take it...' (this is a half a verse, quoting the entire verse will find it referring to war spoils, not hadeeth and sunnah)

There is not a single verse in the Quran referring to what we know as 'hadeeth and sunnah of Muhammad'.

PRINCIPLE 2 : The Quran is fully-detailed

The supporters of hadeeth and sunnah claim that hadeeth and sunnah provide the details of Islamic living. We can see that this simply isn't true. The Quran is not a general document. As we can see from the Quranic verse (24.58), the Quran is detailed when Allah wants us to be informed of the details. It only isn't detailed to those who apply an artificial standard of being 'detailed'

Despite the Quran being fully-detailed, we can see nothing of the system of classification which filters the hadeeth and sunnah. Hadeeth relies on a system of classification which tells us which hadeeth is reliable and which isn't. Yet this system is not mentioned in the Quran at all. Instead the system was created and developed by the scholars of sunnism and as expected, there are many standards by which to judge. Everything is relative to a scholar's opinion.

PRINCIPLE 3 : The Quran is consistent internally.

The Quran DOES use the words 'hadeeth' and 'sunnah'. For example :

1. Such are the Signs of God, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then in what HADEETH will they believe after God and His Signs? (Quran 45.6)

2. Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that God hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what HADEETH after this will they then believe? (Quran 7.185)

3. Then what HADEETH after that, will they believe in? (Quran 77.50)

4. God has revealed the most beautiful HADEETH (Quran 39.23)

As we can see, even though the Quran is consistent internally, it NEVER uses 'hadeeth and sunnah' to mean 'hadeeth and sunnah of Muhammad'. This was a later invention of Sunni scholars who even opposition for thier innovation.

PRINCIPLE 4 : In order to accept something as knowledge, we must either HEAR it, SEE it, or use reason to determine it

Hadeeth and Sunnah by its very nature completes goes against this 4th principle. The hadeeth collection of the Sunnis came into thier final nearly 200 years after the Prophet. The compilers of hadeeth had no way of knowing if the hadeeth actually came from the narrator or not. Instead , they relied on either oral and written reports. As for the use of reason, there is very little or none. Some hadeeth exhibit an utter disregard for reason and blatant contradiction to the Quran itself. Furthermore, hadeeth collections have so many classifications by so many scholars, it's impossible to accept any hadeeth, since even Sahih al-bukhari , 'the second most correct book after the Book of Allah' according to sunnis are found with hadeeth which have been reclassified.

PRINCIPLE 5 : If anything is from God, it should not have any inconsistencies. Anything from mankind will have MANY contradictions.

The most blatant contradictions of the hadeeth and sunnah is with the Quran itself, for example , the practises of :

1- stoning

2- punishing apostates

3-the wearing of veils for women

4- the institution of forbidden foods (even though the Quran explicitly states that it's the only source to forbid anything)

Moreover, hadeeth and sunnah are in contradiction with themselves. This is shows by the three versions of the farewell sermon , witnessed by TEN THOUSAND PEOPLE. The three versions are :

1. Follow Quran and Sunnah (from Muwatta of Malik)

2. Follow Quran and Prophet's Family (from Sahih al-Muslim)

3. Follow Quran alone (from Sahih al-Muslim)

And worse still , all three versions are canonised permenantly by books of hadeeth !

PRINCIPLE 6 : The Quran is the criteria

If we look closely, it's principle 6 which sums everything up most clearly. The Quran is the starting point, the definition point by which all Islamic institutions must be judged. Principle 6 is really the sum of Principles 1 through Principle 5. Hadeeth and sunnah have failed the Quranic test.

http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/hadith.htm

Sohel
October 4, 2007, 03:48 AM
For those not duly familiar with Quraanic Arabic, here are a couple of links to the Holy Quraan translated in easy to understand English. Any useful, linguistic, semiotic or otherwise erudite critique is most welcome.

http://www.geocities.com/masad02/

http://www.free-minds.org/quran/

A gentle reminder: purely dogmatic jingoism masquerading as "debate" or "dispute" without proper erudition only leads to further embarrassment of all involved. It is sad to try and "refute" what one hasn't examined in detail or in good faith without angry and bitter preconceptions ... :)

Sohel
October 4, 2007, 10:07 AM
My brothers Asaad, HB and others -

Here are a few links about the Hadith. Feel free to explore them.

Peace, Sohel.

History of Hadith:http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/hadithmyth.htm

The Hadith Conspiracy:http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/hadithcon.htm

A Question of Authenticity?http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/aisha.htm

Who authorized Bukhari?http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/bukhari.htm

Refutations:http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/refute.htm

Refutation-2:http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/refute2.htm

Seven Questions Seeking Answers:http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/seven.htm

Messenger of God : The Great Conflict:http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/conflict.htm

The Quran and Me:http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/conflict.htm
One man's journey from the clutches to Hadith to the path of Islam.

Rethinking Tradition:http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/rethink.htm

Does Hadith Have a Historic Foundation?http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/refute2.htm
A logical and historic look at Islam's 'alleged' second source of law.

al Furqaan
October 4, 2007, 12:50 PM
I do not believe as some of my fellow anti-sectarian, "Allah only" travelers do that the Sunnah as expressed through the 5 pillars and the straight path as written in the Holy Quraan need to be mutually exclusive in practice. It is very much possible to practice elements of the Sunnah and NOT break our covenant with Allah, provided that those practices are neither purely ritualistic devoid of individual and deeply internalized meanings and experiences, nor undertaken in anything contrary to the Spirit of the Quraan. If those practices are not imposed or coerced into the hearts of its parishioners who willfully and consciously submit to the Allah as revealed in the Holy Quraan, they do indeed become critical toolkits to consolidate our covenant with Allah.

haven't read through all of sohels lengthy posts, but this was a gem. in his own words "WTG!"

BanCricFan
October 4, 2007, 09:31 PM
Sunnah and Hadith

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/graphics/quran59_7.gif
"And whatever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatever he forbids you, leave it. And fear Allah: truly Allah is severe in punishment. " [Qur'an (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/) 59:7]
<HR>In Islam, the Arabic word sunnah has come to denote the way Prophet Muhammad (saas), the Messenger of Allah, lived his life. The Sunnah is the second source of Islamic jurisprudence, the first being the Qur'an (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/). Both sources are indispensable (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/adheringtosunnah.html); one cannot practice Islam without consulting both of them. The Arabic word hadith (pl. ahadith) is very similar to Sunnah, but not identical. A hadith is a narration about the life of the Prophet (saas) or what he approved - as opposed to his life itself, which is the Sunnah as already mentioned.
In M. M. Azami's Studies in Hadith Methodology and Literature, the following precise definition of a hadith is given,
According to Muhaddithiin [scholars of hadith -ed.] it stands for 'what was transmitted on the authority of the Prophet, his deeds, sayings, tacit approval, or description of his sifaat (features) meaning his physical appearance. However, physical appearance of the Prophet is not included in the definition used by the jurists.'
Thus hadith literature means the literature which consists of the narrations of the life of the Prophet and the things approved by him. However, the term was used sometimes in much broader sense to cover the narrations about the Companions [of the Prophet -ed.] and Successors [to the Companions -ed.] as well.
The explosion of Islam in the 7th and 8th centuries confronted Islamic scholars with a daunting task: to preserve the knowledge of the Sunnah of the Prophet (saas). Hence the science of hadith evaluation was born. We recommend that you read the "Introduction to the Science of Hadith" below to understand the tremendous efforts that were required to sift the true reports from the false reports. The success of the early scholars is also captured below by some collections of hadith.

BanCricFan
October 4, 2007, 09:47 PM
Importance of Hadith ... (http://isre.blogspot.com/2005/09/importance-of-hadith.html)



Those people who think that the Quran is the only source of Islamic Law should read the following verses from the Holy Quran and do a bit of introspection (a mighty bit, that is):


لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّهَ كَثِيراً
Indeed in the Messenger of God (Muhammad) you have a beautiful example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) God and the Last Day and remembers God much. (33:21)

وَإِنَّكَ لَعَلى خُلُقٍ عَظِيمٍ
And verily, you (O Muhammad) are on an exalted standard of character. (68:4)


How can one attempt to follow the "gold-standard" character of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) without the Hadith literature?

Also:


قُلْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ فإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ الْكَافِرِينَ
Say (O Muhammad): "Obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad)." But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers. (3:32)

وَأَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ
And obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad) that you may obtain mercy. (3:132)

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَأَطِيعُواْ الرَّسُولَ وَأُوْلِي الأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلاً
O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination. (4:59)

وَمَن يُطِعِ اللّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ مَعَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللّهُ عَلَيْهِم مِّنَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَالصِّدِّيقِينَ وَالشُّهَدَاء وَالصَّالِحِينَ وَحَسُنَ أُولَـئِكَ رَفِيقًا
And whoso obeys Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad), then they will be in the company of those on whom Allah has bestowed His Grace, of the Prophets, the Siddiqun (those followers of the Prophets who were first and foremost to believe in them, like Abu Bakr as-Siddiq), the martyrs, and the righteous. And how excellent these companions are! (4:69)


How can one obey the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) without access to the Hadith literature?

http://isre.blogspot.com/

BanCricFan
October 4, 2007, 09:50 PM
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/bismilsmall.gif
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/isa.jpg (http://www.islamic-awareness.org/)
The Science Of Hadith

From USC Muslim Students Association Islamic Server (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/scienceofhadith/brief1/)
© Islamic Awareness, All Rights Reserved.

<CENTER>

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In the Name of Allah, the Most Compassionate the Most Merciful
We have, Without doubt, sent down the message: and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption) (Qur'an 15:9)
The promise made by Allah<SUP>(SWT)</SUP> in Qur'an 15:9 is obviously fulfilled in the undisputed purity of the Qur'anic text throughout the fourteen centuries since its revelation. However, what is often forgotten by many Muslims is that the divine promise also includes, by necessity, the Sunnah of the Prophet<SUP>(P)</SUP>, because the Sunnah is the practical example of the implementation of the Qur'anic guidance, the wisdom taught to the Prophet<SUP>(P)</SUP> along with the scripture, and neither the Qur'an nor the Sunnah can be understood correctly without the other.
Allah<SUP>(SWT)</SUP> preserved the Sunnah by enabling the Companions and those after them to memorize, write down and pass on the statements of the Prophet<SUP>(P)</SUP>, and the descriptions of his way, as well as to continue the blessings of practicing the Sunnah.
Later, as the purity of the knowledge of the Sunnah became threatened, Allah<SUP>(SWT)</SUP> caused the Muslim Ummah to produce individuals with exceptional memory skills and analytical expertise, who travelled tirelessly to collect thousands of narrations and distinguish the true words of prophetic wisdom from those corrupted by weak memories, from forgeries by unscrupulous liars, and from the statements of the large number of Ulama (scholars), the Companions and those who followed their way. All of this was achieved through precise attention to the words narrated, and detailed familiarity with the biographies of the thousands of reporters of hadith.
The methodology of the expert scholars of hadith in assessing the narrations and sorting out the genuine from the mistaken and fabricated, for ms the subject matter of the science of hadith. In this article a brief discussion is given of the terminology and classifications of hadith.
Components Of Hadith

A hadith is composed of three parts (see the figure ):
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/had1.gif
Matn (text), isnad (chain of reporters), and taraf (the part, or the beginning sentence, of the text which refers to the sayings, actions or characteristics of the Prophet<SUP>(P)</SUP>, or his concurrence with others action). The authenticity of the hadith depends on the reliability of its reporters, and the linkage among them.
Classifications Of Hadith
A number of classifications of hadith have been made. Five of these classifications are shown in the figure , and are briefly described subsequently.
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/had2.gif

According to the reference to a particular authority Four types of hadith can be identified.
[B]Qudsi - Divine; a revelation from Allah<SUP>(SWT)</SUP>; relayed with the words of the Prophet<SUP>(P)</SUP>.
[B]Marfu` - elevated; a narration from the Prophet<SUP>(P)</SUP>, e.g., I heard the Prophet<SUP>(P)</SUP> saying ...
Mauquf- stopped: a narration from a companion only, e.g., we were commanded to ...
Maqtu` - severed: a narration from a successor.
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/had3.gif
According to the links of isnad - interrupted or uninterrupted Six categories can be identified.

Musnad - supported: a hadith which is reported by a traditionalist, based on what he learned from his teacher at a time of life suitable for learning; similarly - in turn - for each teacher until the isnad reaches a well known companion, who in turn, reports from the Prophet<SUP>(P)</SUP>.
Muttasil - continuous: a hadith with an uninterrupted isnad which goes back only to a companion or successor.
Mursal - hurried: if the link between the successor and the Prophet<SUP>(P)</SUP> is missing, e.g., when a successor says "The Prophet said...".
Munqati`- broken: is a hadith whose link anywhere before the successor (i.e., closer to the traditionalist recording the hadith) is missing.
Mu`adal - perplexing: is a hadith whose reporter omits two or more consecutive reporters in the isnad.
Mu`allaq - hanging: is a hadith whose reporter omits the whole isnad and quotes the Prophet<SUP>(P)</SUP> directly (i.e., the link is missing at the beginning).
According to the number of reporters involved in each stage of isnad Five categories of hadith can be identified:

Mutawatir - Consecutive: is a hadith which is reported by such a large number of people that they cannot be expected to agree upon a lie, all of them together.
Ahad - isolated: is a hadith which is narrated by people whose number does not reach that of the mutawatir. It is further classified into:
Mash'hur - famous: hadith reported by more than two reporters.
`Aziz - rare, strong: at any stage in the isnad, only two reporters are found to narrate the hadith.
Gharib - strange: At some stage of the isnad, only one reporter is found relating it.

According to the nature of the text and isnad

Munkar - denounced: is a hadith which is reported by a weak narrator, and whose narration goes against another authentic hadith.
Mudraj - interpolated: an addition by a reporter to the text of the hadith being narrated.
According to the reliability and memory of the reporters This provides the final verdict on a hadith - four categories can be identified:

Sahih - sound. Imam al-Shafi`i states the following requiremetts for a hadith, which is not Mutawatir, to be acceptable "each reporter should be trustworthy in his religion; he should be known to be truthtul in his narrating, to understand what he narrates, to know how a different expression can alter the meaning, and to report the wording of the hadith verbatim, not only its meaning".
Hasan - good: is the one where its source is known and its reporters are unambiguous.
Da`if - weak: a hadith which fails to reach the status of Hasan. Usually, the weakness is: a) one of discontinuity in the isnad, in which case the hadith could be - according to the nature of the discontinuity - Munqati (broken), Mu`allaq (hanging), Mu`adal (perplexing), or Mursal (hurried), or b) one of the reporters having a disparaged character, such as due to his telling lies, excessive mistakes, opposition to the narration of more reliable sources, involvement in innovation, or ambiguity surrounding his person.
Maudu`- fabricated or forged: is a hadith whose text goes against the established norms of the Prophet's sayings, or its reporters include a liar. Fabricated hadith are also recognized by external evidence related to a discrepancy found in the dates or times of a particular incident.
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/hadsciences.html

BanCricFan
October 4, 2007, 10:20 PM
Any idiot who accuses a great Sahabi like Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) of fabrication of Hadith is a deviant imposter. I can clearly see why Sunni muslims are so harsh with some of Shi'i extremists who ritually curses Sayyidina Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman (whom Allah is pleased with)...Talking about "anti-sectarianism"!!!

BanCricFan
October 4, 2007, 10:37 PM
<SMALL><SMALL><SMALL>Abu Hurayrah</SMALL></SMALL></SMALL>

From Alim® Online
"An Abi Hurayrata, radiyallahu anhu, qal.' qala rasul Allahi, sallallahu alayhi wa sailam..."
Through this phrase millions of Muslims from the early history of Islam to the present have come to be familiar with the name Abu Hurayrah. In speeches and lectures, in Friday khutbahs and seminars, in the books of hadith and sirah, fiqh and ibadah, the n ame Abu Hurayrah is mentioned in this fashion:
"On the authority of Abu Hurayrah, may God be pleased with him who said: The Messenger of God, may God bless him and grant him peace, said... ".
Through his Prodigious efforts, hundreds of ahadith or sayings of the Prophet were transmitted to later generations. His is the foremost name in the roll of hadith transmitters. Next to him comes the names of such companions as Abdullah the son of Umar, Anas the son of Malik, Umm al-Mumininin Aishah, Jabir ibn Abdullah and Abu Said al-Khudri all of whom transmitted over a thousand sayings of the Prophet.
Abu Hurayrah became a Muslim at the hands of at-Tufayl ibn Amr the chieftain of the Daws tribe to which he belonged. The Daws lived in the region of Tihamah which stretches along the coast of the Red Sea in southern Arabia. When at-Tufayl returned to his village after meeting the Prophet and becoming a Muslim in the early years of his mission, Abu Hurayrah was one of the first to respond to his call. He was unlike the majority of the Daws who remained stubborn in their old beliefs for a long time.
When at-Tufayl visited Makkah again, Abu Hurayrah accompanied him. There he had the honor and privilege of meeting the noble Prophet who asked him: "What is your name?"
"Abdu Shams - Servant of a Sun," he replied.
"Instead, let it be Abdur-Rahman - the Servant of the Beneficent Lord," said the Prophet.
"Yes, Abdur-Rahman (it shall be) O Messenger of God," he replied. However, he continued to be known as Abu Hurayrah, "the kitten man", literally "the father of a kitten" because like the Prophet he was fond of cats and since his childhood often had a cat to play with.
Abu Hurayrah stayed in Tihamah for several years and it was only at the beginning of the seventh year of the Hijrah that he arrived in Madinah with others of his tribe. The Prophet had gone on a campaign to Khaybar. Being destitute, Abu Hurayrah took up h is place in the Masjid with other of the Ahl as-Suffah. He was single, without wife or child. With him however was his mother who was still a mushrik. He longed, and prayed, for her to become a Muslim but she adamantly refused. One day, he invited her to have faith in God alone and follow His Prophet but she uttered some words about the Prophet which saddened him greatly. With tears in his eyes, he went to the noble Prophet who said to him:
"What makes you cry, O Abu Hurayrah?"
"I have not let up in inviting my mother to Islam but she has always rebuffed me. Today, I invited her again and I heard words from her which I do not like. Do make supplication to God Almighty to make the heart of Abu Hurayrah's mother incline to Isl am."
The Prophet responded to Abu Hurayrah's request and prayed for his mother. Abu Hurayrah said: "I went home and found the door closed. I heard the splashing of water and when I tried to enter my mother said: "Stay where you are, O Abu Hurayrah." And after putting on her clothes, she said, "Enter!" I entered and she said: "I testify that there is no god but Allah and I testify that Muhammad is His Servant and His Messenger."
"I returned to the Prophet, peace be on him, weeping with joy just as an hour before I had gone weeping from sadness and said: "I have good news, O Messenger of Allah. God has responded to your prayer and guided the mother of Abu Hurayrah to Islam."
Abu Hurayrah loved the Prophet a great deal and found favor with him. He was never tired of looking at the Prophet whose face appeared to him as having all the radiance of the sun and he was never tired of listening to him. Often he would praise God for h is good fortune and say: "Praise be to God Who has guided Abu Hurayrah to Islam." Praise be to God Who has taught Abu Hurayrah the Quran."
"Praise be to God who has bestowed on Abu Hurayrah the companionship of Muhammad, may God bless him and grant him peace." On reaching Madinah, Abu Hurayrah set his heart on attaining knowledge. Zayd ibn Thabit the notable companion of the Prophet reported : "While Abu Hurayrah and I and another friend of mine were in the Masjid praying to God Almighty and performing dhikr to Him, the Messenger of God appeared. He came towards us and sat among us. We became silent and he said: "Carry on with what you were d oing."
"So my friend and I made a supplication to God before Abu Hurayrah did and the Prophet began to say Ameen to our dua.
"Then Abu Hurayrah made a supplication saying: "O Lord, I ask You for what my two companions have asked and I ask You for knowledge which will not be forgotten."
"The Prophet, peace be on him, said: 'Ameen.' "We then said: 'And we ask Allah for knowledge which will not be forgotten, and the Prophet replied: 'The Dawsi youth has asked for this before you." "With his formidable memory, Abu Hurayrah set out to memorize in the four years that he spent with the Prophet, the gems of wisdom that emanated from his lips. He realized that he had a great gift and he set about to use it to the full in the service of I slam.
He had free time at his disposal. Unlike many of the Muhajirin he did not busy himself' in the market-places, with buying and selling. Unlike many of the Ansar, he had no land to cultivate nor crops to tend. He stayed with the Prophet in Madinah and went with him on journeys and expeditions.
Many companions were amazed at the number of hadith he had memorized and often questioned him on when he had heard a certain hadith and under what circumstances.
Once Marwan ibn al-Hakam wanted to test Abu Hurayrah's power of memory. He sat with him in one room and behind a curtain he placed a scribe, unknown to Abu Hurayrah, and ordered him to write down whatever Abu Hurayrah said. A year later, Marwan called Ab u Hurayrah again and asked him to recall the same ahadith which the scribe had recorded. It was found that he had forgotten not a single word.
Abu Hurayrah was concerned to teach and transmit the ahadith he had memorized and knowledge of Islam in general. It is reported that one day he passed through the suq of Madinah and naturally saw people engrossed in the business of buying and selling.
"How feeble are you, O people of Madinah!" he said.
"What do you see that is feeble in us, Abu Hurayrah?" they asked.
"The inheritance of the Messenger of God, peace be on him, is being distributed and you remain here! Won't you go and take your portion?"
"Where is this, O Abu Hurayrah?" they asked.
"In the Masjid," he replied.
Quickly they left. Abu Hurayrah waited until they returned. When they saw him, they said: "O Abu Hurayrah, we went to the Masjid and entered and we did not see anything being distributed."
"Didn't you see anyone in the Masjid?" he asked.
"O yes, we saw some people performing Salat, some people reading the Quran and some people discussing about what is halal and what is haram."
"Woe unto you," replied Abu Hurayrah," that is the inheritance of Muhammad, may God bless him and grant him peace."
Abu Hurayrah underwent much hardship and difficulties as a result of his dedicated search for knowledge. He was often hungry and destitute. He said about himself:
"When I was afflicted with severe hunger, I would go to a companion' of the Prophet and asked him about an ayah of the Quran and (stay with him) learning it so that he would take me with him to his house and give food. "
One day, my hunger became so severe that I placed a stone on my stomach. I then sat down in the path of the companions. Abu Bakr passed by and I asked him about an ayah of the Book of God. I only asked him so that he would invite me but he didn't.
"Then Umar ibn al-Khattab passed by me and I asked him about an ayah but he also did not invite me. Then the Messenger of God, peace be on him, passed by and realized that I was hungry and said: "Abu Hurayrah!"
"At your command" I replied and followed him until we entered his house. He found a bowl of milk and asked his family: "From where did you get this?"
"Someone sent it to you" they replied.
He then said to me: "O Abu Hurayrah, go to the Ahl as-Suffah and invite them." Abu Hurayrah did as he was told and they all drank from the milk.
The time came of course when the Muslims were blessed with great wealth and material goodness of every description. Abu Hurayrah eventually got his share of wealth. He had a comfortable home, a wife and child. But this turn of fortune did not change his personality. Neither did he forget his days of destitution. He would "I grew up as an orphan and I emigrated as a poor and indigent person. I used to take food for my stomach from Busrah bint Ghazwan. I served people when they returned from journeys and l ed their camels when they set out. Then God caused me to marry her (Busrah). So praise be to God who has strengthened his religion and made Abu Hurayrah an imam." (This last statement is a reference to the time when he became governor of Madinah.)
Much of Abu Hurayrah's time would be spent in spiritual exercises and devotion to God. Qiyam al-Layl staying up for the night in prayer and devotion - was a regular practice of his family including his wife and his daughter. He would stay up for a third o f the night, his wife for another third and his daughter for a third. In this way, in the house of Abu Hurayrah no hour of the night would pass without ibadah, dhikr and Salat.
During the caliphate of Umar, Umar appointed him as governor of Bakrain. Umar was very scrupulous about the type of persons whom he appointed as governors. He was always concerned that his governors should live simply and frugally and not acquire much wea lth even though this was through lawful means.
In Bahrain, Abu Hurayrah became quite rich. Umar heard of this and recalled him to Madinah. Umar thought he had acquired his wealth through unlawful means and questioned him about where and how he had acquired such a fortune. Abu Hurayrah replied: "From b reeding horses and gifts which I received."
"Hand it over to the treasury of the Muslims," ordered Umar.
Abu Hurayrah did as he was told and raised his hands to the heavens and prayed: "O Lord, forgive the Amir al-Muminin." Subsequently, Umar asked him to become governor once again but he declined. Umar asked him why he refused and he said:
"So that my honor would not be besmirched, my wealth taken and my back beaten."
And he added: "And I fear to judge without knowledge and speak without wisdom."
Throughout his life Abu Hurayrah remained kind and courteous to his mother. Whenever he wanted to leave home, he would stand at the door of her room and say: As-salaamu alaykum, yaa ummataah, wa rahrnatullahi wa barakatuhu, peace be on you, mother, and th e mercy and blessings of God." She would reply: "Wa alayka-s salaam, yaa bunayya, wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu - And on you be peace, my son, and the mercy and blessings of God." Often, he would also say: "May God have mercy on you as you cared for me wh en I was small," and she would reply: "May God have mercy on you as you delivered me from error when I was old." Abu Hurayrah always encouraged other people to be kind and good to their parents.
One day he saw two men walking together, one older than the other. He asked the younger one: "What is this man to you?"
"My father," the person replied.
"Don't call him by his name. Don't walk in front of him and don't sit before him," advised Abu Hurayrah.
Muslims owe a debt of gratitude to Abu Hurayrah for helping to preserve and transmit the valuable legacy of the Prophet, may God bless him and grant him peace. He died in the year 59 AH when he was seventy-eight years old.

Banglatiger84
October 5, 2007, 02:01 AM
[quote=BanCricFan;554645]Any idiot who accuses a great Sahabi like Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) of fabrication of Hadith is a deviant imposter.quote]


What about people who believe that "the collection" of ahadith may not be 100% accurate ?

Yes, a lot of effort was put into preservation of ahadith by scholar but how can one consider ahadith to be as equal as the Quran in authenticity?

And putting ahadith on an equal pedestal as the Quran is done whenever a hadith against the spirit of the Quran is taken as 100% correct, no questions asked.

BanCricFan
October 5, 2007, 05:31 AM
[quote=BanCricFan;554645]Any idiot who accuses a great Sahabi like Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) of fabrication of Hadith is a deviant imposter.quote]


What about people who believe that "the collection" of ahadith may not be 100% accurate ?

Yes, a lot of effort was put into preservation of ahadith by scholar but how can one consider ahadith to be as equal as the Quran in authenticity?

And putting ahadith on an equal pedestal as the Quran is done whenever a hadith against the spirit of the Quran is taken as 100% correct, no questions asked.

bal adall (even worse)! just joking! relax.:D

"the collection" (if you meant the six sahih) does contain some ahadith wihch are Daeef (weak) and hadith experts are well aware of that. In "'ilm-al-hadith" there is a complete chapter which deals with "weak" ahadith.

Hadith narrations which has "mutawaatir" chains are- technically speaking- equal to Qur'an.

Please note, "ilm-al-usul" has clearly categorized Quran as the primary source of proof and Sunnah as secondary one. Sunnah being classified as a secondary source does not diminish its importance at all.

Kabir
October 5, 2007, 09:02 AM
Any idiot who accuses a great Sahabi like Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) of fabrication of Hadith is a deviant imposter.

Okay, now that's a bit too much I guess. I apologize, but it sounds extremist-ish.

al Furqaan
October 5, 2007, 10:26 AM
[quote=BanCricFan;554645]Any idiot who accuses a great Sahabi like Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) of fabrication of Hadith is a deviant imposter.quote]




Yes, a lot of effort was put into preservation of ahadith by scholar but how can one consider ahadith to be as equal as the Quran in authenticity?



exactly.

it appears bancricfan, and others a failing to realize that all we are saying is that the quran does not = hadith.

"And whatever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatever he forbids you, leave it. And fear Allah: truly Allah is severe in punishment. "

no muslim should have a problem with this. but how we do know for a fact that it is indeed "from the messenger (saw)"? if its guranteed, i'll take it.

BanCricFan
October 5, 2007, 10:40 AM
Okay, now that's a bit too much I guess. I apologize, but it sounds extremist-ish.

Not at all- only if you realize the import the of defamation of a great sahabi of the stature of Sayyiduna Abu Hurairah as a fabricator of Ahadith. Abu Huairah (R) is one of the most prolific reporters of Ahadith; proving him to be a fabricator is proving that a vast body of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (Shariah) is based on falsehood. A stunningly cunning plot to mock (Sunni) Islam!

Some ulama are of the opinion that any deliberate defamation of the great Sahabah constitutes an act of Kufr (disbelief). The Quran speaks of the blessed companions of the Prophet as, "Allah is pleased with them(Sahabah) and they are pleased with Him".

Of course, a non-muslim may do so as he is not bound by the Shariah. Muslim scholars will provide a response to his criticisms.

PS: My previous post wasn't aim towards al-Furqaan or Kabir.

BanCricFan
October 5, 2007, 10:49 AM
[quote=Banglatiger84;554678

no muslim should have a problem with this. but how we do know for a fact that it is indeed "from the messenger (saw)"? if its guranteed, i'll take it.

If there is a scholarly Ijma' or, in this particular case, if the vast majority of Muhaddithun classify a Hadith as Authentic (Sahih) then it is "guranteed" to be from the Prophet. The Shariah of Islam is not based on doubts.

BD-Shardul
October 5, 2007, 03:14 PM
Many thanks to BanCricFan Bhai for spending so much time for properly explaining all these issues from proper sources. May Almighty Allah bless you and crown your life with success.

To Kabir Bhai, BanCricFan Bhai already explained a lot about hadeeth. Hope you now understand Sittah Sihah, or "Six books of Saheeh Hadeeths".

Let me add one more thing: The Shia's also reject all the hadeeths reported by Ummul Mumeneen Aisha (R), which is clearly blasphemous. The reason: In a war (I cannot remember the name of war here) Hazrat Aisha's position was against Ali (R). That war took place because of differences in ijtihad of two parties.

With this post, I am signing off from BC for about next two and half months. I am imposing on myself a "A temporary secession from BC" because spending too much time here has affected my grades in the first round of exams. I will make a comeback only if I can attain 4.00 GPA this semester, an accomplishment that I have regularly achieved in my short university acdemic career . My current Fall semester ends on victory day, '07and NZ series will also start at that time. Please pray for me.

Eid Mubarak to all BCers in advance. Take Care and wish you all the best.
Regards,
BD-Shardul

Miraz
October 5, 2007, 03:29 PM
BD-Shardul, InshAlllah you will achieve your goal. See you in December.

Take care and stay safe.

Nafi
October 5, 2007, 04:25 PM
I do not regard hadith as factual basis to follow Islam, many hadiths Ive heard before are complete rubbish in my view and are holding Islam back

Here is an article


Does Buhkari Explain the Quran?

The advocates of hadith are fond of saying that the hadith explains the Quran without which, they say the Quran cannot be understood. In other words without hadith they will have to reject the Quran or at least ignore it. The scholars also say that the hadith they call "Sahih Bukhary" is the best hadith.

It can be easily proved that the hadith does not in any way explain the Quran and that the "Sahih Bukhari" is not worth the papers it is printed on.


For evidence please refer to, and check all references of "Sahih Al-Bukhary" by Dr. Muhammed Muhsin Khan, Islamic University, Medina Al-Munawwara. Publisher "Kitab Bhavan, New Delhi, which is the Nine volume encyclopedia. Vol. 6 of "Sahih Al-Bukhary" is devoted to the explanation of the Quran (Tafsir). The other eight volumes prescribe things like drinking camels urine to cure fevers (vol 7, hadith no 590), burning people first and then their houses if they do not go the mosque on time, (vol.1, hadith no.626), dreaming of undressing women (vol 9, hadith no.139 and 140), using shoes to garland camels (Vol 2, hadith no 763), and other such non-sense.

But let us focus on vol. 6: the explanation of the Quran by Imam Bukhary. Although the Quran has 114 suras or chapters, Bukhari does not explain all the verses in all the suras. Sura 2, Al Baqarah has 286 verses, but Bukhari only provides hadith for about 50 verses. This is slightly over 20% of Al Baqarah. Bukhari has left the Ulamma groping the dark over the remaining 80%.

Sura AL Kauther (Sura 108) is the shortest sura in the Quran, only 3 verses. However Bukhari "attempts" to explain the meaning of just one word "Kauther" as sufficient to explain this whole Sura. Bukhari says; "Kauther" is a river in heaven.


But simply, "Kauther" means "good in abundance". (Translation by President of Islamic research, IFAT, Saudi Arabia). This also suggests that Imam Bukhari did not know Arabic. It is a fact that Bukhari was a Persian from Bukhara and his mother tongue was Farsi. The scholars have no records to show when Bukhari learned Arabic. More about this later.

The greatest surprise of all is that 28 suras of the Quran are NOT "explained" at all. The sura numbers are as follows; 23, 27, 29, 35, 51, 57, 58, 64, 67, 69, 70, 73, 76, 81, 82, 86, 88, 89, 90, 94, 100, 101, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, and 109. Bukhari explains this away as follows "no hadith were mentioned here."


According to the scholars only the Prophet is supposed to be the source of the hadith. The hadith is supposed to explain the Quran. The BIG question is, "Who went on un authorized holiday for 28 WHOLE SURAS of the Quran ?!!!


The scholars insist that the hadith explains the Quran. Hence the scholars have to do away with 28 SURAS of the Quran because Bukhari did not explain these 28 SURAS..


Therefore the boast by the scholars that those who uphold the QURAN ALONE and do NOT depend on the hadith at all, cannot understand the Quran, falls FLAT on its face. The scholars are in a far worse situation. 28 Suras are missing and none of the other suras are explained in full by Bukhari.


To revert to the earlier point that the Persian Bukhari may not have known Arabic, this is suggested by the way Bukhari has changed the names of certain SURAS. By itself this is a strange phenomenon. The scholars themselves do NOT know why Bukhary did this.


Non-Arabs sometimes refer to a Sura by its first verse. This is because they may not have known the Arabic name for the SURA because they are not scholars of the Quran or simply because they are not Arabs. Bukhari displays the same characteristics.


Sura Al Naba (Sura 68) is labelled as Sura "Amma yatasa'alun", this is actually part of the first verse of the sura.. Sura Al Baiyina (Sura 98) is labelled as Sura "Lam Yakun". Again the beginning verses. Sura Al Takwir (Sura 81) is labelled Sura "Idhash Shamsu Kuwirat". This is the start of the first verse again. Sura Al Maarij (sura 70) is labelled Sura "Sa'ala
Sa'ilun".

Some SURAS have been given two names. Sura Al Insan (Sura 76) is labelled
Sura "Hal-Ata-insani" or Sura "Dahr".

But this is a revealing point because such labeling is more akin to reciters who are not Arabs, who do not know the Arabic language. Apart from the fact that Bukhari was Persian from Bukhara many scholars believe that he was also blind. The next question is "WHO WROTE the Sahih Bukhari?!" It will also be pertinent to see how Bukhari handles some of the explanations of the verses-if and when he cares to explain them.


For example some explanations end with a blank space.: Vol 6, Hadith number 50 seeks to explain Sura 2:223. After some narration it continues like this; Nafi' added regarding the verse: "So go to your tilth when or how you will. Ibn Umar said; " It means one should approach his wife in........" The explanation ends with a blank space. But not to worry. A footnote completes
the picture. The footnote says "Al Bukhary left a blank space here because he was not sure of what Ibn Umar had said !." And yet this called "Sahih Al Bukhary" Perhaps this is why some scholars have much problems in this department.


There is also one of the most foolish and incredible explanation by Bukhari for Sura 11:5. The beautiful meaning of the verse is actually :11:4 "To God is your return and He has power over all things." 11:5 "Behold ! They fold up their hearts, that they may be hid from him. Ah! Even when they cover themselves with their garments. He knows what they conceal, and what they reveal. For He knows well the (innermost secrets) of the hearts." 11:6 There is no moving creature on earth but its substance depends on God; He knows its resting place and its temporary deposit. All is in a clear Record." Translation by Presidency of Islamic Research, IFTA, Saudi Arabia..


This meaning is crystal clear. We all answer to God. There is nothing we can conceal from God. Every single thing that we do is in a clear Record. "Kitaab-un Maubeen". So do not think you can hide anything from God.


NOW, Here is Bukhari's ridiculous explanation of the same verse in 11:5. Vol. 6 Hadith no. 203: Narrated Muhammed bin Abbad bin Jaafar that he heard Ibn Abbas reciting: " No doubt! they fold up their breasts." 11:5 and asked him about the explanation. He said, "Some people used to hide themselves while answering the call of nature in an open space lest they be exposed to the sky, so the above revelation was sent down regarding them.


According to Bukhari, the whole purpose of this narration was to tell the Sahaba that God could see them defecating and sleeping in the desert!. According to Bukhari's logic then, after this verse was revealed, the Sahaba who travelled with their wives in the desert lost all their inhibitions, since God could see them anyway. No need to hide anything.


Similarly Bukhari twists sura 5:87. To explain "5:87" Bukhari first quotes it partially only, not in full, as follows : "O you who believe DO NOT make unlawful the good things which God has made for you" 5:87


The explanation by Bukhari (Vol.6 Hadith no. 139) is as follows : Narrated Abdullah "We used to participate in holy wars conducted by the prophet and we had no women with us. So, we said (to the prophet) "Shall we castrate ourselves "? But the prophet forbade us to do that and therefore he allowed us to marry a woman temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then the
prophet recited. "O you who believe ! Do not make unlawful for you...."There is a footnote "Temporary marriage (Mut'a) was allowed in the early days of Islam., but later, at the time of the Khaibar Battle, it was prohibited (God knows it better)."


The uncertainty in the footnote lends support to the fact that this is an evil lie against God and the prophet by Bukhari.


Sura 5:87 is actually as follows : "O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors."


Is prostitution an excess ? Worse than that it is an evil. Which Muslim scholar will allow his daughter to receive "even a garment" as a payment for temporarily servicing the lusts of some Sahaba ? Note how the Bukhari has the sahaba coolly suggesting "Shall we castrate ourselves ?" as though it is done every morning after breakfast.


In Sura 24:33 God and the messenger told us: "Let those who find not the means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing, (for freedom) give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given you. But force NOT your girls into prostitution when they desire chastity, in order
that you make a gain in the goods of this life. If anyone compels them, (on them) God is forgiving, Merciful."


In other words, do not look for sex outside marriage. If you cannot marry, it is better to keep chaste. Control your lust. The messenger said do not force anyone into prostitution, but instead Bukhari says the messenger set the price for hanky panky at merely a piece of garment. This is Bukhari's malicious lie against the Messenger. In truth the messenger told his men to control their lusts : Sura 24:30 "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty, that will be better purity for them, and God knows all that they do."


If anyone insisted on following their lusts, the Messenger would have told them " God doth wish to turn to you, but the wish of those who follow their lusts is that you should turn away from them, far away " Sura 4:27 (All translation from Presidency of Islamic Research, IFTA- Saudi Arabia).


The Quran is crystal clear. But Bukhari says you can but a woman for a price of cloth. Perhaps the scholars are gleeful at this suggestion also.


Here is another hadith that has neither head nor tail, It is started under "The book of the Virtues of the Quran". May God saves us. Vol 6, hadith No 503. Narrated Valium Utham. "I was informed that Gabriel came to the prophet while Um Salma was with him. Gabriel started talking (to the prophet). Then the prophet asked Um Salma, "Who is this ? " She replied "He is Dihya (Al
Kalbi). When Gabriel had left Um Salma said; "By God, I did not take him for anybody other than him ( i.e. Dihya) till I heard the sermon of the prophet wherein he informed about the news of Gabriel." The subnarrator asked Utham :
From whom have you heard that ? Utham said "From Usama Binzaid". God sent Gabriel with the revelations to be delivered to Muhammed. Therefore Gabriel delivered the revelations to Muhammed. But here Bukhari says the prophet did not know Gabriel had come to him. Instead he asks his wife !!. Was the prophet's wife a Messenger also, such that she could hear Gabriel?And she calls him strange names like Dihya and Al Kalbi.


There is some confusion. Is God that inefficient that His angel Gabriel is called Dihya and Kalbi, all in the course of duty of delivering revelations to His messenger Muhammed ?


Let us see 2:97-98: "Say, who is an enemy to Gabriel for he brings the revelation to thy heart by God's will, a confirmation of what went before. And Guidance and glad tidings for those who believe. Who ever is an enemy to God and His angels and prophets, to Gabriel and Michael, Lo..! God is an enemy to those who reject faith. "


Gabriel brings the revelation straight into the prophet's heart (alaiqa Qalbika bi idhnillah) with God's permission. But Bukhary says Gabriel just started talking and the Prophet did not know who it was. He had to ask his wife...!

"This is a revelation from the Lord of the universe. The Honest Spirit (Gabriel) came down with it. To reveal it into your heart, that you may be one of the warners. In a perfect Arabic tongue." (26:192-195)


Gabriel brought the revelation straight to the Prophet's heart . But Bukhari says the prophet had to ask his wife of Gabriel : "WHO IS THIS ?"


It is easy to refute the Christian argument by referring to his own Bible. In a similar way the "muslim" scholar who insists on giving eminence to fabricated hadith can be countered by referring to his own books written by the hands of their leaders like Imam Bukhari, without God's permission.


In Sura Al Baqarah, God says : "Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what GOD has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains." (2:79)


As stated earlier the hadith of Bukhari is not worth the paper it is printed on. By following such ludicrous hadith which clearly taint the good name of the Prophet Muhammed, the Muslims have been lost for over 1000 years now. They can only recall the glorious days of the Prophet. Little do they realize that during the glorious days there was no hadith. There was only the Quran.

Sohel
October 5, 2007, 06:22 PM
... the quran does not = hadith.

no muslim should have a problem with this. but how we do know for a fact that it is indeed "from the messenger (saw)"? if its guranteed, i'll take it.

Spot on. One must note that the difference between a semantic or cosmentic partnership or lack there of, and a de facto one is also important to consider ... :)

The gravest crime the self-appointed scholars who claimed to be Muslim made was to give authority to the traditions (Sunna) and the books of Sayings (Hadith) ALONGSIDE the authority of God and His messenger. They believe that it was God who authorized such action by commanding the people to ‘obey God, and obey the messenger’…

"Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God; and whoever turns away, We have not sent you as a guardian over them." (The Message 4:80)

What is so sadly neglected is that the most critical aspects of the messenger’s life have been recorded and captured in the most detailed manner…not in the books of Hadith or tradition…but in the Holy Book itself. The questions that he was asked, and the answers (inspired by God) that he gave:

"They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say: 'In them is great harm, and a benefit for mankind; but their harm is greater than their benefit.' And they ask you how much are they to give, Say: 'The excess.' It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think." (The Message 2:219)

"And they ask you concerning the Spirit. Say: 'The Spirit is from the command on my Lord, and the knowledge you were given was but very little.'" (The Message 17:85)

The list of questions and answers goes on throughout the Book of God…This is the life of the Messenger, and this is the ‘obedience’ of the messenger…Without ‘obeying the messenger’, we would inadvertently ignore nearly 1/3 of the Book of God which deals with his most authentic narrations authorized and inspired by God which we have been commanded to follow…

“Nor does he speak from personal desire. It is a divine inspiration." (The Message 53:3-4)

http://www.free-minds.org/

Sohel
October 5, 2007, 07:09 PM
Any idiot who accuses a great Sahabi like Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) of fabrication of Hadith is a deviant imposter. I can clearly see why Sunni muslims are so harsh with some of Shi'i extremists who ritually curses Sayyidina Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman (whom Allah is pleased with)...Talking about "anti-sectarianism"!!!

Such angry and bitter posts fool no one. I for one DO NOT wish for the poster to get banned from this forum despite what I as a member find to be clear violations of the spirit of its rules, and despite the thinly veiled personal and misconcieved communal attacks being sifted through a perceived loophole ... :)

After you have had enough venting, I would humbly suggest that you revisit the following Islamic etiquette as suggested by the Holy Quraan, suggestions which I hope the eminent leaders of the Madhab of your choice will not object to too much. The words in bold green may possibly be somewhat more relevant than others IMHO … :)

Islamic Etiquette
By Layth (e-mail: laytth@hotmail.com)

Besides the laws revealed by GOD that were designed to govern our lives, the Quran has also indicated a list of 'Etiquette' which we are advised to maintain in our dealings with each other on this planet.

"This Reading (Quran) guides to the best path, and brings good news to the believers who lead a righteous life, that they have deserved a great recompense." (17:9)

The below list are not LAWS, but when GOD makes a recommendation, it is always very advisable for us to 'hear & obey' in a guarantee that it will lead to happiness for all involved.

Always Respond to a 'Greeting':

"When greeted with a greeting, you shall respond with a better greeting or at least an equal one. GOD reckons all things." (4:86)

"O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art not a believer!"..." (4:94)

Always Say 'Good' things:

"Do you not see that GOD has cited the example of a good word as a good tree whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches are high in the sky. It produces its crop every season, as designed by its Lord. GOD thus cites the examples for the people, that they may take heed." (14:24-25)

Be 'Humble', and speak 'Lightly':

"Walk humbly and lower your voice, the ugliest voice is the donkey's voice." (31:19)

Invite to GOD with wisdom and kindness:

"Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones." (16:125)

"It was mercy from GOD that you became compassionate towards them. Had you been harsh and mean-hearted, they would have abandoned you. Therefore, you shall pardon them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult them. Once you make a decision, carry out your plan, and trust in GOD. GOD loves those who trust in Him." (3:159)

Be Kind to your parents:

"Your Lord has decreed that you shall not worship except Him, and your parents shall be honored. As long as one or both of them live, you shall never say to them, "Uff" (the slightest gesture of annoyance), nor shall you shout at them; you shall treat them amicably. And lower for them the wings of humility, and kindness, and say, "My Lord, have mercy on them, for they have raised me from infancy." (17:23-24)

Suppress Anger & Forgive People:

"who (the righteous) give to charity during the good times, as well as the bad times. They are suppressors of anger, and pardoners of the people. GOD loves the charitable." (3:134)

Counter Evil with Good:

"Not equal is the good response and the bad response. You shall resort to the nicest possible response. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend." (41:34)

"They steadfastly persevere in seeking their Lord, observe the Link (Salat), spend from our provisions to them secretly and publicly, and counter evil with good. These have deserved the best abode." (13:22)

Do NOT Say 'Bad' things:

"And the example of the bad word is that of a bad tree chopped at the soil level; it has no roots to keep it firm." (14:26)

Do NOT be 'Arrogant' or 'Carefree':

"You shall not treat the people with arrogance, nor shall you roam the earth carefree. GOD does not like the arrogant showoffs." (31:18)

Do NOT engage in 'ignorant' talk:

"The servants of the Almighty are those who tread the earth gently, and when the ignorant speak to them, they only utter peace." (25:63)

Do NOT Curse the Idolaters:

"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (6:108)

Do NOT make fun of others, or call them names:

"O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors." (49:11)

Do NOT be suspicious, or spy on one another, or backbite:

"O you who believe, if a wicked person brings any news to you, you shall first investigate, lest you commit injustice towards some people, out of ignorance, then become sorry and remorseful for what you have done." (49:6)

"O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful." (49:12)

Do NOT be 'Racist':

"O people, We created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant." (49:13)

http://www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/etiquette.htm

Being accused of "blasphemy" for propagating the Holy Quraan and ONLY the Holy Quraan from those who perhaps inadvertently set up scholars and imams as de facto partners with Allah - scholars and imams who took it upon themselves to give authority to the Sunnah and the Hadith ALONGSIDE the authority of Allah and His Messenger as revealed and FULLY CONTAINED in the Holy Quraan is hardly surprising at all.

For the record, and in good faith response to yet another expected and vicious attack, I am an anti-sectarian, "Unitarian" Muslim as per the letter and spirit of the Holy Quraan, NOT A SHIA OR SUNNI in terms of my understanding of Islamic sects.

That said, there have been many Sunni, Shia and Sufi scholars, among quite a few "non-Muslim" ones from other faiths who have added deeply to my faith since my willful submission, and continue to do so with their illuminating and erudite ideas and insights. I have no desire to rule the world, “convert” anybody to my particular ways, or territorialize their individual Deen in any manner whatsoever. I am simply making information available to everyone in this pluralist forum, and occasionally expressing my views on the information being shared without any ulterior motives or “hidden” agenda, or any malicious intent towards those comfortable in their faith.

This website has been created for all people who have a desire to allow God into their lives and follow His path alone...

This website invites all people of various beliefs (Sunni, Shia, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Bahai, Agnostic, Humanist, and even Atheists) to come and examine for themselves the system of Submission/Islam which is based on God Alone.

Many of you may outwardly be content with your current faith or that which you inherited from your parents and community...but to some out there, there will always be a tugging at the back of their mind that 'there is something more', and that 'some things don't always make sense'...

If you are one of those people, then open your eyes, put on your thinking cap, and welcome to an open examination of the system of Submission/Islam which very few know about...

http://www.free-minds.org/

The key word is INVITE, not “coerce” or “impose”.

I shall respond to all attacks from with the following verses from the Quraan: -

"...We have revealed to you this book to provide explanations for everything, and guidance, and mercy, and good news for the submitters/muslims." (16:89)

"Shall I seek other than GOD as a judge, when He revealed THIS BOOK FULLY DETAILED? (6:114)

"The word of your Lord is COMPLETE in truth & justice." (6:115)

"Say (O Muhammad), 'Whose testimony is greater?' Say, 'God is the witness between me and you that THIS QURAN was given to me to preach it to you, and to whomever it reaches.' However, you certainly bear witness that you set up other gods beside. Say, 'I will never do what you are doing; I disown your idol-worship.'" (6:19)

"When our verses are recited for them, those who do not expect to meet us would say, 'Bring a Quraan other than this, or change it.' Say (O Muhammad), 'I cannot change it on my own initiative. I simply follow what is revealed to me. I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the retribution of a terrible day.' ...Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or rejects His revelations? The guilty never succeed. Yet, they idolize beside God those who possess no power to harm them or benefit them, and say, 'These are our intercessors with God.' ...such is idol-worship." (10:15-18)

"The followers will say to their leaders, "It was you who schemed night and day, then commanded us to be unappreciative of GOD, and to set up partners to rank with Him." They will be ridden with remorse, when they see the retribution, for we will place shackles around the necks of those who disbelieved. Are they not justly requited for what they did?" (34:33)

"Why do they not study the Quraan? Or are their locks on their hearts?" (47:24)

"When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?. The example of those who reject is that of one who repeats what he hears of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand." (2:170-171)

"And who is more wicked than one who is reminded of his Lord’s verses but he turned away from them, and he forgot what his hands had done. We have made veils upon their hearts from understanding them, and a deafness in their ears. And if you invite them to the guidance, they will never be guided." (The Message 18:57)

A gentle reminder to those who fear death and believe that scholars and imams, not good intent complimenting good deeds, will "intercede" on their behalf when the time comes …

"Say, 'To God belongs ALL INTERCESSION. To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, then to Him you will be returned.' When GOD ALONE is advocated, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink with aversion. But when idols are mentioned along with Him, they become satisfied." (39:45)

"Spend from our provisions to you before a day comes wherein there will be no trade, no nepotism, and NO INTERCESSION." (2:254)

"Beware of the day when no soul will help another soul, no ransom will be accepted, NO INTERCESSION will be useful, and no one will be helped."
(2/123)

And that we are responsible for our own actions …

"That is because God was not to change anything He bestowed to a people, unless they change what is in themselves. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable." (The Message 8:53)

This post will be my repeated response to all accusations, name-calling, and no doubt "refutations" in the future from all those who at times inadvertently try "refute" something without the in-depth, 360 degree knowledge of what they're "refuting". Since this will be a perpetual response to all personal attacks, name-calling, slander, malicious misdirection, and intolerant, attempted imposition masquerading as “refutation” and debate, please feel free to quote yourself and copy and paste it after such posts. If you don’t, I certainly will.

A good faith, real refutation which displays detailed knowledge of the posts, on the other hand, is most welcome ... :)

Peace, Sohel

Rifat
September 16, 2010, 11:12 PM
just wanted to revive this thread:

I want to make one simple point, for this reason i am reviving this thread:

the sole reason why "Sunnis" take a super harsh stance against people(not just shia's but anyone) who curses sahabah(May Allah be pleased with them)) or insults them or claims their speech to be false is because is because is because they were the closest people of RasulUllah(may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) the closest people of RasulUllah(may ALlah's peace and blessings be upon him) who understood the qur'an and lived up to it word by word! these are the people who will be the the first people to enter paradise, true servants of Allah! they sacrificed more than any one of you and me they sacrificed so much in the path of Allah....because of their efforts, we have 1.2 billion people celebrating E'id and benefitting from Islam all over the world.

these are the people whom Allah is pleased with as mentioned in Qur'an!( look up surah bayyinah! it has eight verses and it is in between surah zilzal and surah qadr)...look up surah tawbah as well....9th surah of qur'an!

it is possible they may make mistakes, for they were human.we should respect them for whom they were :)

in any case: cursing another human being/being racist shows how low someone can go to defame someone else to prove a trivial point.....

that is all what i wanted to say.

Akib
September 17, 2010, 11:00 PM
al Furqaan ... you just made my day.

Came to BC for a quick check on the latest posts and was quite dismayed at some of the pathetic posts that betray the lack of knowledge and heart. I did not want to start a futile exercise by responding to those posts and getting bogged down in any idiotic argument.

But then I read al Furqan's post. And I had to log in and share my delight at seeing such a refreshing post. Intelligent, full of heart, not afraid. I guess this is what you call an educated person with a great upbringing. Carry on man.


.

I shall second this. Great post al Furqan! Very insightful. And I agree with it too.

EDIT: LOL Did not realise how old this thread was :P

Tigers_eye
September 18, 2010, 01:06 AM
....

the sole reason why "Sunnis" take a super harsh stance against people(not just shia's but anyone) who curses sahabah(May Allah be pleased with them)) or insults them or claims their speech to be false is ....

in any case: cursing another human being/being racist shows how low someone can go to defame someone else to prove a trivial point.....
As'salamu alaikum Rifat,
Firstly, I would have liked had you added the word "some" before Sunnis.

Secondly, the "super harsh stance" you mentioned what it could be? By any chance, could it be "cursing"?

How then we are better than the other group who curses the sahabah(May Allah be pleased with them)?

yaseer
September 18, 2010, 02:37 AM
This is a good thread from AF and some very good posts where lots of questions raised and felt encouraged to explore my religion more. Thanks for that.

FagunerAgun
September 19, 2010, 11:17 AM
A bold and couregeous thread, AF, lot of learning and careful analysis involved in here.