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pagol-chagol
October 16, 2003, 10:45 AM
Young talents and their maturity.

The most critical way to group our young talents is to group them in terms of maturity. And that has nothing to do with age. We have seen kids coming to the top level and flourish. We have seen duds. The important thing is to figure out what success, pampering and top level coaching will do to their heads.

Its too early to judge many of these kids. But most would agree that we can throw some of these players in the following groups:

Mature: Alok, Rajin, Hannan, Taposh, Mashrafee.

Immature: Ehsanul, Ashraful, Mehrab.

I admit talent or lack there of have a major impact in this too. A highly talented player can make it, even if he is immature. And vice versa. But, we need to ignore that at least partially. An immensely talented kid can be ruined for being up there too early. On the other hand, its a crime to be obstacles in the path of Alok and Rajin just because they are young.

The "Lakh taka" question is which group do Nafis, Aftab, Enamul Jr., Rubel and the other budding stars fall in.:-/

fwullah
October 16, 2003, 10:49 AM
We won't know them until we see them actually in the field.

Nasif
October 16, 2003, 10:50 AM
Thats the "lakh taka" answer from fahmida :D

pagol-chagol
October 16, 2003, 10:56 AM
No. We should be able to tell it now. People who play with them, people who coach them, people who talk to them know their personality. We don't necessarily have to put them in the field to test that.

Why do you think Faruq wanted Rajin? You could see those in people.

Why do you thing that Idiot Kamal put Alok in there when others were laughing at him. He could see "it" in Alok.

Performance in the cricket field, probably more than any other team sports, depends on personality.

rafiq
October 16, 2003, 10:58 AM
I'm excited by Nafis' century just as much as the next guy. But unfortunately only 11 players can play for Bangladesh at any given time. We need to be careful not to throw out experienced players everytime a new kid has a good outing. Rajin has benefitted from the steady progression, and so to will Nafis. What they should do is throw out deadweight like Mushfiq, Sujon, et al and include the prospects in the 14-15 man squads, but not play them right away.

If you give Nafis a test cap after the first innings, what are you going to do if Nuruzzaman (hope I got his name right) or Aftab score a 50 in the 2nd (there won't be time for a century)?

I think we should be happy that age group players are making a name for themselves, but let's work them through the system. The Pak U-19 tour is v. important prep for the Bangladesh team, and taking the captain out of it right now could backfire. I say let him go, but bring him back for the ODI series. He is a quick scorer, we need an ODI opener. And I strongly believe the ODI team should be on the path to the test team, not like what we do now.

pagol-chagol
October 16, 2003, 11:14 AM
Rafiq - what you said really makes sense.

Kana-Baba
October 16, 2003, 12:04 PM
My point of view is not to do any hurry. Let Nafees, Aftab, Enamul jr. play for Under-19 team till WC2004 as well as domestic cricket for this season. Personally i believe that Pakistan tour and WC2004 will give them more exposoure of the world cricket. It will be a step towards the highest level of cricket.


We can also send this guys to some other countires for training (ex: send Enamul to india for 1 month of training about spin or Aftab to Aus for batting training). Let them know about their achievement and tell them to take mental preparetion for the highest level. Next season, we can call them in National team. Sujon and Golla will be gone by that time and we will get a classy openr and middle order replacement.

Let them grow up gradually. Don't need to be in rush. If they grow up properly, they can serve the team for 10 years.

Shubho
October 16, 2003, 01:55 PM
WC 2004? World Cup of what?

paco
October 16, 2003, 02:15 PM
u-19.

Regarding Pagol-Chagol's original post, please move Mehrab from the 'Immature' category to 'Done for the day' category. He will never mature.

pagol-chagol
October 16, 2003, 02:27 PM
Kana baba - The questions are:

Are we accelarating their progress by putting them up here or are we harming them?

If I use your logic religiously I would have to send Alok, Mashrafee, Rajin, Taposh and some other guys down for more remedial coaching. And get Sanwar, Bulbul etc. back to the team.

Rafiq's most important point, I think, was that Nafees, as the captain, has to be with the under 19 team for that tour.

Paco, You are right. Opi is done. He was so young and so talented. He had started to think that he was something big. Lots of personal bad habits. We have to look out for traits like that in young players before bringing them up.

Pundit
October 16, 2003, 03:20 PM
I say we make each one of them sweat in buckets many a days before rewarding them with a test cap.

BD lost 2 yrs experimenting with Opee, 3 yrs with the old horse Al-Shariar, and has invested thus far 2 yrs with Ashraful, with no yeild, or seriously discernible promise for the future.

This is a waste. So, we better learn how to make sure that our gambles pay off before wasting a slot in the batting order. After all, that has 2 consequences -

a) Directly, the batsman does not contribute to the total.

b) He takes the place of "who should have been their genuinely."

You may disagree with me on Ash, but tell me, who will be thinking of him if we find 2 other Rajins over the next 18 months ?

Nobody. Bohoooo !!

chinaman
October 16, 2003, 03:25 PM
England thwarted by teenaged century-maker

"SAVAR, Bangladesh, Oct 16 (Reuters) - Teenage opener Nafis Iqbal hit 118 to lift Bangladesh "A" towards a respectable 242 all out on the first day of their three-day match against England on Thursday.

The 19-year-old right-hander hit 14 fours and a six, staying more than three and a half hours at the wicket.

Nafis, a nephew of Bangladesh's former skipper Akram Khan, clubbed three consecutive fours off Matthew Hoggard, the first of them bringing up his century in 161 balls..."

Details (http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3YZSSRFBGVCQ0CRBAELCF EY?type=cricketNews&storyID=3627178&section=news)

Zobair
October 16, 2003, 03:39 PM
It is true that the gamble on Mashrafee paidd off (but not before his career almost ended prematurely through over-use and bad management)...the rest actually played some domestic cricket before they were considered. But that should be seen as an exception...we should be careful not to catch the "Pakistan Syndrome". They have some really talented young players but they have made a habit out of throwing promising young players in the deep end on the first glimpses of talent! Many of these guys simply were not mentally and physically ready for the top level and more often than not they have faded into the oblivion after a sensational debut. We should be more careful with our boys and not treat them like lab rats. They are young and should be handled carefully so that when they enter into the top level they have a long and successful career. Consistency comes with commitment and commitment comes with appreciation! We should hold on to our horses :)

[Edited on 16-10-2003 by pompous]

pagol-chagol
October 16, 2003, 03:58 PM
As long as the kids get top level coaching throughout the year, its not too bad to bring them along slowly. But more often than not they pick up techniques from marginal coaches and even that for short periods.

Mashrafee was a different case. Fast bowlers who do not get spcial care get injuries. Bowling is an unnatural motion for our bodies. Its unnatural for baseball pitchers too. Actually injuries happen more when the players grow older. For kids bad forms and lack of muscles are the main reasons for injuries. Actually, early effective coaching can reduce the probability for these injuries. Mashrafee, if he wasn't in the team early, probably would have gotten injured himself. (His coaching level would have been worse and therefore his technique would have been worse.) I am glad we found him before he injured himself.

rafiq
October 16, 2003, 11:04 PM
That's the most interesting Mashrafee injury -related analysis I have read! I say this because he has injured himself foolishly so many times - tripping over a jumprope in narail, stepping on a cricket ball in south africa - I imagine he would have been jumping off the roof of the Narail Express train had he not been picked up by the national team in time!:D

reinausagi
October 16, 2003, 11:52 PM
Rafiq wrote:

I'm excited by Nafis' century just as much as the next guy. But unfortunately only 11 players can play for Bangladesh at any given time.


Is this beginning of a Australian style selection dilemna in BD? Too many top class players- only 11 slots to fill?

My reaction to his century was: Oh shoot ('shoot' being my choice of words-not a software auto-replace function) just when we thought Hannan and Javed were the ideal test opening pair, a young Turk had to come in and stake his claim.

:lol::lol:

fwullah
October 17, 2003, 12:02 AM
I wouldn't say that Opee was a waste. After all, he did score a one day century which nobody is able to achieve even after almost 4 years. But his career is certainly finished.

fwullah
October 17, 2003, 12:04 AM
Not to mention that he (Opee) contributed in Bangladesh's victory over Pakistan - no matter how small that contribution was.

It was injury, then the pressure of test cricket along with a little bit of "ohonkar" has affected his game, for which reason, he is now finished.

pagol-chagol
October 17, 2003, 07:19 AM
Mashrafee had two injuries. When he was close to being OK after the first injury he had the jump rope incident. The first one was typical first bowler's injury. The second one was clumsy man's injury.

rafiq
October 17, 2003, 07:31 AM
Pagol bhai: please name other top fast bowlers, young or old, who have been felled by the jump rope.:)

Sorry i just realized you WERE talking about the original back injury and then the jump rope incident. Then we need to add a 3rd injury - the one he picked up while trying to stand on a ball in the middle of a World Cup game (ok , he was trying to save a 4 but those are details).:)

the good news is these BD players are finally starting to work out and get stronger - that helps reduce injuries.

[Edited on 17-10-2003 by rafiq]

[Edited on 17-10-2003 by rafiq]

pagol-chagol
October 17, 2003, 11:02 AM
The dude must be really clumsy. He needs to build a lot of muscles to overcome that. Time to hit the weight-room like Rajin and Alok.

Cricket Fast Bowlers and Baseball Pitchers have an alarmingly high rate of shoulder and back injuries.

bhobishshot
October 17, 2003, 11:13 AM
One of my co-worker here at HP houston campus told me that Opee was his distant cousin. My co-worker is from India. He is a bangla speaking indian muslim. He has a lot of relatives in BD. An interesting comment he made about Opee is that he had drug addiction. Can anybody verify that? If this is true, then he difinitely not going to back in the BD team.

[Edited on 17-10-2003 by bhobishshot]

Zobair
October 17, 2003, 11:22 AM
yes bhobishshot bhai! there was a discussion on this board regarding that. He is often referred to on this board as the Ganjakhor! Others can confirm that.

Optimist
October 17, 2003, 12:13 PM
As long as the kids get top level coaching throughout the year, its not too bad to bring them along slowly. But more often than not they pick up techniques from marginal coaches and even that for short periods.


That is brilliant assessment ( very much non-pagol statement). The only way we can move forward is to unearth the future stars at a very early stage.

And about Opee, he was one of our most succesful batsmen in WC 99. He probably scored a fifty in that WC too. It was his addiction that brought about his downfall. I don't think he was too arrogant or anything........His addiction started at a very early age.

DOORBIN
October 17, 2003, 09:04 PM
Is his career really finished?

I would really like to see him back. As one of his strong supporters, I believe he still has a lot to offer to Bangladesh cricket.

Pundit
October 17, 2003, 09:18 PM
And as one of his detractors, I say that he will never make it back into the team, in a long run sense.