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cricket_pagol
October 23, 2007, 11:51 PM
I have been disturbed with the recent report of Gen Moeen's alleged corruption. The allegation is that Gen Moeen repaid TK 66 lakh of his loan within one year... "How can a general get so much money in such a short time". This allegation is based on a recent edition of Trust bank prospectus, where Gen Moeen's loan to Trust Bank on Dec 31, 2005 was shown as TK 99,69,215 and at Dec 31, 2006 his loan was TK 33,15,323. He essentially repaid Tk 66 lakh in one year.

I am sure many of you guys have seen this report on the internet but it did not make it to the bangladesh media. A BBC reporter asked Moeen about this allegation couple of days ago, Moeen claimed that he can get a max of TK 35 lakh from the bank according to Trust bank rules and that's what he did. LINK >> (http://www.e-bangladesh.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/bbc-mua-october-21.mp3)

My real concern is how did Gen Moeen manaage to get TK 99 lakhs as loan when the maximum amount of loan that he can get from trust bank is TK 35 lakhs.

Evidence:
Trust Bank Prospectus (this is a big pdf, just search for Moeen and you will find the relevant part on page 29. this shows the 2005 and 2006 loan amount to directors)
link to to prospectus
(http://www.secbd.org/Full%20Prospectus%20of%20Trust%20Bank%20Limited.pd f)
Recent the report that provides more evidence (http://www.e-bangladesh.org/2007/10/23/financial-statement-confirms-trust-bank-loan/#more-245) (verifies the figure on prospectus by comparing the numbers from Trust Bank financial statement of 2005 ).

Comment:
At the end of the day, I think there are very few people who have not committed a SINGLE act of corruption, I was desperately hoping that Gen Moeen was one of them. I feel that in the in the context of bangladesh, it is an unrealistic expectation :(. I hope Gen Moeen will show some evidence to support his claim.

Ehsan
October 24, 2007, 12:11 AM
There is certainly a question of doubt there. But I would not make any assumption as of yet. If this was an act of corruption then it would not be so readily available.

I hope General answers on his own. My personal feeling: this could be an attempt by the corrupt leaders to hurt General's image. BTW just curious, where did you find all these info?

Banglatiger84
October 24, 2007, 12:22 AM
Maybe yes, maybe not.

lets not speculate, however what is wrong is that some blind military supporters assume all allegations against military personnel to be blatant lies, while all allegations against politicians are automatically correct.

cricket_pagol
October 24, 2007, 12:41 AM
There is certainly a question of doubt there. But I would not make any assumption as of yet. If this was an act of corruption then it would not be so readily available.

I hope General answers on his own. My personal feeling: this could be an attempt by the corrupt leaders to hurt General's image. BTW just curious, where did you find all these info?

I read it in e-bangladesh a while ago. My first instinct was that this is a propaganda, I wanted to do some fact checking by myself. I downloaded the prospectus and looked for the evidence by myself. BTW, this prospectus is available from multiple sources that are not political in nature (another source of the prospectus (http://www.csebd.com/cse/download/Prospectus_TRUSTBANK.pdf) from Chittagong stock exchange ltd). I also emailed the audit firm that made the prospectus to verify the numbers.

And now according to the latest report at e-bangladesh (pro AL news outlet), the financial statement from 2005 of Trust Bank supports the allegations further. The 2005 financial statement (http://www.trustbankbd.com/FS-2005-notes.pdf) is available on the net, so doing the fact check is not hard. You can find the link by navigating around the trust bank site (took me a little while to figure it out) and the link seems to be authentic because the file is posted in the trustbankbd.com domain. (Go here (http://www.trustbankbd.com/financial_statement05.htm)and click on Notes to the financial statements continued).

For me this raises serious questions (does not prove anything), thats is why I am sharing it with you guys.

tutul
October 24, 2007, 04:59 AM
I have been disturbed with the recent report of Gen Moeen's alleged corruption. The allegation is that Gen Moeen repaid TK 66 lakh of his loan within one year... "How can a general get so much money in such a short time".

I had taken a large amount of loan from a bank before, which I was supposed to repay in 10 years. However, I only had to use a small portion of that loan, therefore I repaid two third of it within couple of months and rest in 3 years.

Like me maybe the general also didn’t have to use whole amount of his loan, so he repaid big chunk of it within a year. To me paying the depth early is not a sign of corruption, rather corrupted are those who take millions dollars/taka of loans and never pay back.

ammark
October 24, 2007, 07:15 AM
...
Comment:
At the end of the day, I think there are very few people who have not committed a SINGLE act of corruption, I was desperately hoping that Gen Moeen was one of them. I feel that in the in the context of bangladesh, it is an unrealistic expectation :( . I hope Gen Moeen will show some evidence to support his claim.

if you dont mind me pointing out, you're basing your judgement on the suspicion that he's got ill-gotten wealth. However the facts are that he has made payments back to the bank for the loan he had. Is it wrong then to repay a loan? :smug:

Sohel
October 24, 2007, 08:00 AM
Dear cricket_pagol,

Thank you for bringing this up and providing an opportunity for discussion. I understand your legitimate concerns and humbly offer my two cents. I have developed a clear idea of some genuinely patriotic political feelings from your posts, and assuming to know where you're coming from in good faith. So as you read what I have to say, please know that I’m NOT talking about you here. That said, you probably know whom I am talking "about” and "to" in general … :)

General Moeen U Ahmed and all other leaders assisting and inside the CTG are always under unprecedented scrutiny. Many of those scrutinizing these man and women have ulterior motives behind doing so. They cite twisted factoids and insinuate things without delving into the detailed context as well as history of what they’re citing, manipulate those insinuations in order to created politically motivated doubts, and finally seek to undermine the lawful reforms these folks represent and return to the good old days of subverting the Constitution and the law, wanton brigandage and the farce of “democracy” of their personal fiefdoms. They will not succeed because: -

1. We have Constitutional, not Martial Law in the country, and a Judiciary, ACC and EC which have been more independent than ever before, with unprecedented public access to information and avenues of vertical and horizontal communication from the general public. Anybody can drop off or file a complaint against anyone at those aforementioned agencies at their disposal, and they are being looked into transparently and publicly.

2. The press is free and easily accessible to the public.

Before this little “controversy”, there was another one when the General “came to power” after 1/11. There was a rumor going around Dhaka that the General’s younger brother, an agent of Ashok-Leyland trucks in Bangladesh, secured a defense contract because of his relationship and influence. When the matter looked into by many, including journalists and politicians who were looking for something to discredit the General, the facts exposed a refreshingly transparent, fair and multi-phased public process where the contract was won fair, square and totally outside the power and cognizance of the Army Chief. The rumor was in fact being spread by a competitor with political connections to BAL. The accusations were so baseless, and the ulterior motives so obvious, the story never made it to print. The more recent BS on the Square Group's energy deals is another glaring example of such cheap, nasty and pathetic attempts at undermining the lawful process of reform and restoration of the Spirit of 1971 as per the Constitution, underway here in Bangladesh. They will continue to fail.

Oh and by the way, the Ahsok-Leyland rumors started a bit before 1/11, during the height of both BNP and BAL’s implicit exasperations with the General because of his non-partisan, pro-Constitution and law-and-order stance. He is the first BMA-commissioned Army chief nobody, including the former PM wanted as such. He was number 9 on that short list, and his immense popularity within the CHT and UN mission-hardened, veteran young BMA commissioned officers forced the issue. His justified reputation as a strong anti-martial law and pro-Constitution officer did the rest. He is a highly educated and intelligent man from an educated and well-off family, and has a history of being fair and anti-nepotistic. He is acutely aware of who he is and has lived his life accordingly. Any and all fair legal inquiries anywhere as to his financial activities will continue exonerate him

Now we have this before other equally unscrupulous hearsay starts to create well crafted doubts in our inquisitive minds. We just have to look a gift horse in the mouth, no matter how unsound and dodgy the reason. So be it.

1. He comes from a family of successful, wise and tax-paying investors and business people. I have had the pleasure of working with his elder brother when he was the Senior Executive Vice-president of the largest Bangladeshi bank. I was hired by that bank as a consultant and played a part in researching and developing a strategy to create the very first quality discount brokerage geared towards the middle and lower middle classes in Bangladesh, in order to bring meaningful wealth creation to an important segment of the population all too often often left out of the process, and further stabilizing the DSE by increasing meaningful participation in it. We also offered affordable, Sharia-based Islamic portfolio management under the same program. One needed only BDT 10,000 to open such accounts. During that time, I was amazed by his erudition, patriotism, ethical rigidity, intellectual openness, straight forwardness, and personal warmth – all traits he shares with his entire family. Iqbal Bhai is now the Managing Director of Trust Bank, the Military’s bank, not because he is the General’s brother, but because he is an eminent and honest senior Bangladeshi banker with a stellar reputation and set of qualifications.

2. The Trust Bank under Iqbal Bhai’s innovative management has grown outside the defense fraternity, and become highly competitive to its civilian counterparts in terms of both dividends and overall brand equity. Like other Defense Welfare enterprises and industries under more educated and professional leadership from both inside and outside the fraternity, Trust Bank has improved its performance with obvious benefits to all of its lawful clients and stakeholders such as General Moeen U Ahmed and General Hasan Moshud Chaudhury of ACC. Every penny of what they have is easily traceable and is diligently scrutinized under the due processes.

3. Any citizen of the People’s Republic may challenge the source of any public official’s wealth, and publicize it to their heart’s content in the national media. Why don’t they? Rather why do they prefer the anonymous rumor mills of the Internet? They do because there is no case. There is only malicious hearsay and the risk of the recently enforceable libel because of frivolously leveled accusations within the process of the law, because that process can no longer be manipulated by lack of transparency, and unethical, as well as illegal political influence.

These folks to wake up and smell the hot morning beverage of their choice, wherever they may be under whatever circumstances. As a proud Bangladeshi, let me say this: -

The Bangladesh you have known to be their personal fiefdom to be raped, looted and exploited at the expense of its good and hardworking people, and the Spirit of 1971 as per the Constitution and laws of the People’s Republic - is no more. We WILL hunt you down and bring your @$$ back to justice as per the due process of our laws, and FORCE you to return what rightfully belongs to our people. You will NOT do what you have done since the inception of our country without the PROMISE of mortal combat. Take THAT to the bank.

Peace, Sohel.

Alien
October 24, 2007, 08:11 AM
Without going too much into the details, I hope if and only if General is found guilty of whatever corruption, that he faces the same fate as Tariq, Khaleda and Hasina. Driving corruption gives no one the right to indulge in it.

Sohel
October 24, 2007, 08:16 AM
Without going too much into the details, I hope if and only if General is found guilty of whatever corruption, that he faces the same fate as Tariq, Khaleda and Hasina. Driving corruption gives no one the right to indulge in it.

Spot on. You can rest assured that NOBODY'S above the law anymore.

Sohel
October 24, 2007, 08:22 AM
if you dont mind me pointing out, you're basing your judgement on the suspicion that he's got ill-gotten wealth. However the facts are that he has made payments back to the bank for the loan he had. Is it wrong then to repay a loan? :smug:

Spot on. The "source" of wealth is the key, not lawful activities involving the wealth ... :)

nsd3
October 24, 2007, 08:26 AM
This might not be directly related - just watched Channel i news on the net - Joy (son of Hasina) was saying on the phone interview that Mr. Moeen seemed to be a gentleman to him during the meeting at Harvard Uni lunch. This was Joy's expression when he was asking Mr. Moeen about the reason behind his mother's captive life in jail.

Corrupt kina ta jani na.

cricket_pagol
October 24, 2007, 09:39 AM
if you dont mind me pointing out, you're basing your judgement on the suspicion that he's got ill-gotten wealth. However the facts are that he has made payments back to the bank for the loan he had. Is it wrong then to repay a loan? :smug:

Spot on. The "source" of wealth is the key, not lawful activities involving the wealth ... :)

I agree the source of the wealth statement is the key. I have no problem if he repays a loan of TK 66 lakhs in one year, he can pay off that loan by using money from other sources... we just don't know the details. But, Gen Moeen said in the BBC interview that he never took a loan more than TK 35 lakhs. I hope that the situation will be clarified soon.

Zobair
October 24, 2007, 10:10 AM
Interesting find cricket_pagol.

If I understand this right the allegedly "corrupt" act is that Gen. Moeen got a bigger loan than he should have, and not because he has managed to pay a big chunk of it quickly, right? In other words, your suspicion arises from the contradiction between the General's statement to the BBC and what is in the prospectus.

Now the next question that arises is, IF he did say that he can not take more than 35 lakh from the bank and that is what he did, then could it be possible that he is not allowed to take out more than 35 lakh within a certain period (at ONE time), and as long as he is credit-worthy and paying off his loans in good faith, he is eligible to take out more money? What about co-signing loans?

I am not aware of the whole story but certainly there appears to be more to the story.

Shehwar
October 24, 2007, 10:21 AM
Cool down fellas!....Let me clarify things here...Gen Moin borrowed the money from me!....Im charging less interest than the bank...Anyone interested?...

cricket_pagol
October 24, 2007, 10:45 AM
Interesting find cricket_pagol.

If I understand this right the allegedly "corrupt" act is that Gen. Moeen got a bigger loan than he should have, and not because he has managed to pay a big chunk of it quickly, right? In other words, your suspicion arises from the contradiction between the General's statement to the BBC and what is in the prospectus.

Now the next question that arises is, IF he did say that he can not take more than 35 lakh from the bank and that is what he did, then could it be possible that he is not allowed to take out more than 35 lakh within a certain period (at ONE time), and as long as he is credit-worthy and paying off his loans in good faith, he is eligible to take out more money? What about co-signing loans?

I am not aware of the whole story but certainly there appears to be more to the story.

Link to Download Gen Moeen's comment to BBC (http://www.e-bangladesh.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/bbc-mua-october-21.mp3)

I hope there is more to this story.

Tigers_eye
October 24, 2007, 11:20 AM
What is Trust bank LTD? Why all the Army officers are directors? Can someone let me know? thanks.

Kabir
October 24, 2007, 11:37 AM
What is Trust bank LTD? Why all the Army officers are directors? Can someone let me know? thanks.

[a] Trust bank = bank you can trust the most

[b] Army officer = person your nation can trust the most

If [a] is proportional to [b],
Trust bank = Army officers' rajotto

cricket_dorshok
October 24, 2007, 11:38 AM
[a] Trust bank = bank you can trust the most

[b] Army officer = person your nation can trust the most

If [a] is proportional to [b],
Trust bank = Army officers' rajotto
:lol::lol::lol:

Tigers_eye
October 24, 2007, 11:40 AM
If [a] is proportional to [b],
Trust bank = Army officers' rajotto
Else statement missing. incomplete programming. What happens when it is not proportionate?

When did they get appointed as directors? My another questions.

Kabir
October 24, 2007, 11:44 AM
Else statement missing. incomplete programming. What happens when it is not proportionate?

When did they get appointed as directors? My another questions.

Good catch. Haven't been programming for a while. This CMS is taking away all my programing needs! :(

Here's the corrected code.

[a] Trust bank = bank you can trust the most

[b] Army officer = person your nation can trust the most

If [a] is proportional to [b],
Trust bank = Army officers' rajotto

Else,
Assumption e bhul asilo; exception thrown; catch taken by T_E bhai

Ehsan
October 24, 2007, 11:49 AM
however what is wrong is that some blind military supporters assume all allegations against military personnel to be blatant lies, while all allegations against politicians are automatically correct.

I felt that could be one reason. But I did not dismiss the evidence of doubt. It could be that he was at fault or not. Basically, we should not jump with all our guns saying that he is corrupt without any concrete evidence. Basically, I was actually reinstating your statement.

Rabz
October 24, 2007, 12:14 PM
Dont worry guys.. this type of news will surface every now and then ...
remember... a lot of people are having a real bad time...and nothing would make them more happy than to see the CTG in trouble....

ammark
October 24, 2007, 12:26 PM
What is Trust bank LTD? Why all the Army officers are directors? Can someone let me know? thanks.

The Trust Bank Ltd is a commercial bank owned by the Bangladesh Army (or maybe Shena Kalyan Shangstha) largely, and I think some percentage of their shares are also out in the DSE market. Logically thats why the directors would be officers of the army.

Something akin to the CAS also being President of Kurmitola Golf Club, and the CGS being the VP.

Sohel
October 24, 2007, 12:36 PM
What is Trust bank LTD? Why all the Army officers are directors? Can someone let me know? thanks.

Trust Bank Limited is owned by the Armed Forces through the "Shena Kollan Shongstha" which owns many other enterprises and industries, and has invesments everywhere. Naturally the directors are from the Armed Forces.

Anybody can contact the bank and ask about their loan facilities to the Military as well as to civilians. Go ahead and ask them to respond to your queries with regards to the General's loans and see what they say. The "Freedom of Information Act" is in force ... :)

Here's the WEBSITE (http://www.trustbank.com.bd/)

Fazal
October 24, 2007, 01:23 PM
hayre... jai lau sheye Kodu.... I hope not.

billah
October 24, 2007, 04:18 PM
"This allegation is based on a recent edition of Trust bank prospectus, where Gen Moeen's loan to Trust Bank on Dec 31, 2005 was shown as TK 99,69,215 and at Dec 31, 2006 his loan was TK 33,15,323. He essentially repaid Tk 66 lakh in one year."

The above is not and can not be used as an "Evidence" of corruption. You can wake up and turn on your common sense switch if you wish. As for the so-called "Evidence", this has to be biggest load of crap...

To say the least, if I was corrupt, and had wanted to just aggravate some of the dumbest of BAL party supporters, I would have put this doc up for public viewing...just the yank the chains a bit, and enjoy it...

This stuff, however, can surely be used by the BAL party supporters to drum up propaganda, makes perfect sense. After all, Hacheena thinks she is better than Dr. Yunus ! What else to expect?...

cricket_pagol
October 24, 2007, 04:31 PM
Else statement missing. incomplete programming. What happens when it is not proportionate?

When did they get appointed as directors? My another questions.

Actually the first Awami propaganda about trust bank started from Sajeeb Wazed joy's blog. He asked the same questions as Tigers_eye bhai, but for obvious reason that did not gain any ground because you only have to look at trust bank website to figure out the mission of the bank and why the army chief is the director of the bank. Trust bank was created in 1999 and the constitution of the bank was approved during the AL rule.

tutul
October 24, 2007, 10:57 PM
After all, Hacheena thinks she is better than Dr. Yunus !

does she??? :floor::notworthy::lol::D:-D:clap::sick::head:

PoorFan
October 25, 2007, 12:40 AM
If it helps to know a bit, read here in Amader Somoy. (http://www.amadershomoy.com/news.php?id=206720&sys=3)

zahid
October 25, 2007, 06:39 AM
Cool down fellas!....Let me clarify things here...Gen Moin borrowed the money from me!....Im charging less interest than the bank...Anyone interested?...

:-D:-D:-D

Next Get Togetherey apnar dawat.

Nocturnal
October 25, 2007, 12:24 PM
As long as this accusation is ONLY Awami propaganda we are fine.
[বাংলা]কিনতু সরিষার মধ্যে ভূত থাকলে বড় সমস্যা[/বাংলা]

Rabz
October 25, 2007, 12:33 PM
does she??? :floor::notworthy::lol::D:-D:clap::sick::head:

bhai...shob hasa ekai heshe nilen?

Sohel
October 25, 2007, 12:52 PM
If it helps to know a bit, read here in Amader Somoy. (http://www.amadershomoy.com/news.php?id=206720&sys=3)

Great dig PF, domo arigato. WTG Bro ! ... :up:

The truth prevails again ... :)

Kabir
October 25, 2007, 01:39 PM
So does it mean that the PDF from Trust Bank's annual report has erroneous information? Coz it said he had Tk. 99 Lakhs as loan. Who should we believe? The bank's MD, or their annual report? Or could it be that both are right, but as Zobair bhai said, it could be an accumulated amount of total loan, which may have been taken in several portions?

billah
October 25, 2007, 03:14 PM
As long as this accusation is ONLY Awami propaganda we are fine.
[বাংলা]কিনতু সরিষার মধ্যে ভূত থাকলে বড় সমস্যা[/বাংলা]

It is indeed, ONLY Awami propaganda. A very stupid one at that even.....

cricket_pagol
October 25, 2007, 03:28 PM
So does it mean that the PDF from Trust Bank's annual report has erroneous information? Coz it said he had Tk. 99 Lakhs as loan. Who should we believe? The bank's MD, or their annual report? Or could it be that both are right, but as Zobair bhai said, it could be an accumulated amount of total loan, which may have been taken in several portions?

I am just as confused with these developments. It is the word of the MD against the numbers shown in Trust bank prospectus and financial statement of 2005 (allthese documents are publicly available). As wrote earlier, I emailed the audit company that prepared the prospectus to verify the numbers, they still stand by that number. The MD of Trust Bank needs to show some solid evidence, like documents related to the loan, as proof. Just because we support the army backed CTG, doesn't mean that we should have easier standards for them. That's my opinion.

Sadly, anything coming out of e-bangladesh can deemed dubious because they have a tracked record of being a biased news outlet.

sushanta
October 28, 2007, 07:29 PM
Just because we support the army backed CTG, doesn't mean that we should have easier standards for them. That's my opinion.

Sadly, anything coming out of e-bangladesh can deemed dubious because they have a tracked record of being a biased news outlet.

So it seems that the truth regarding army backed CTG published at e-bangladesh is false to you as you are supporting them.

Shouldn't i call it funny?

And another thing is name calling is not praiseworthy. I am telling you one thing if AL would do any corruption I would publish it. So focusing the corruption of army chief does not mean that E-Bangladesh is leaned to AL.

Sushanta
Editor , E-Bangladesh
editor@e-bangladesh.org

sushanta
October 28, 2007, 07:38 PM
It is indeed, ONLY Awami propaganda. A very stupid one at that even.....

So can i ask you how can you get the propadanda links to the MUA's scam? It seems that jake dekhte nari tar cholon baka.

Nocturnal
October 28, 2007, 07:47 PM
...
...
Sushanta
Editor , E-Bangladesh
editor@e-bangladesh.org

Welcome to BC. Enjoy your stay :)

billah
October 28, 2007, 08:02 PM
So can i ask you how can you get the propadanda links to the MUA's scam? It seems that jake dekhte nari tar cholon baka.

Ahem... Sushanto babu, I mean, bhaia, It seems you, and/or e-bangladesh.org has a rep for creating fiction. Besides, your bias is pretty clear here, justifying that proverb in your post.

If your "org" can produce something (other than these fickle-brain mock stories) that is worthy of my attention, I'll be sure to spend my time on it. 'Til then, I suggest you spend more time in rebuilding your credibility eh?

Thanks.

cricket_pagol
October 28, 2007, 08:15 PM
So it seems that the truth regarding army backed CTG published at e-bangladesh is false to you as you are supporting them.

Shouldn't i call it funny?

And another thing is name calling is not praiseworthy. I am telling you one thing if AL would do any corruption I would publish it. So focusing the corruption of army chief does not mean that E-Bangladesh is leaned to AL.

Sushanta
Editor , E-Bangladesh
editor@e-bangladesh.org

Welcome to BC. I was just stating my opinion there, i don't feel like i have to defend myself because it should be obvious to most people who visit your site. I do want to say that you have a few good reporters/bloggers and they write excellent pieces from time to time.

Anyways, look forward to some interesting posts from you.

sushanta
October 28, 2007, 11:31 PM
Welcome to BC. I was just stating my opinion there, i don't feel like i have to defend myself because it should be obvious to most people who visit your site. I do want to say that you have a few good reporters/bloggers and they write excellent pieces from time to time.

Anyways, look forward to some interesting posts from you.

[বাংলা]অনেক অনেক ধন্যবাদ। আপনাকে যথেষ্ট আন্তরিক ও লজিক্যাল বলেই মনে হচ্ছে। কিন্তু ''বিল্লাহ'' এর মতো যুক্তিহীন মানুষের স্ট্যাটাস '' ক্রিকেট লিজেন্ড'' হয় কি করে?[/বাংলা]

sushanta
October 28, 2007, 11:42 PM
Ahem... Sushanto babu, I mean, bhaia, It seems you, and/or e-bangladesh.org has a rep for creating fiction. Besides, your bias is pretty clear here, justifying that proverb in your post.

Thanks.


Please read the thread here in Drishtipat (http://www.drishtipat.org/blog/2007/10/28/the-confusions-general-moeen-u-ahmed-need-to-clear/). [বাংলা]যদি আপনার ভুল কিছুটা হলে ও ভাংগে![/বাংলা]

billah
October 29, 2007, 01:52 AM
Please read the thread here in Drishtipat (http://www.drishtipat.org/blog/2007/10/28/the-confusions-general-moeen-u-ahmed-need-to-clear/). [বাংলা]যদি আপনার ভুল কিছুটা হলে ও ভাংগে![/বাংলা]

Please ask around here, what my perception of drishtipat is, apnaro bhul bhangbe...;)

Tigers_eye
October 29, 2007, 09:10 AM
Welcome Sushanta to BC.
Cricket legend, cricket guru status hoi post count'a. Nothing else, nothing more.

To give you the benefit of the doubt, may I suggest something? Please email/contact the General directly. He has mentioned in the BBC interview that he is willing to show papers to anyone who is questioning. And then be kind enough to post his answers with citations here.

From my experience, I came to know one thing. When a person is judging a matter, he/she must give both sides a fair hearing. Not base his/her judgment on someone else's statement. Let him defend what you are accusing of, directly. Fax, scanning of documents is in BD now. Shouldn't be hard for you unless you have already made up your mind on his deeds/misdeeds?

Thank you.
Mijan.

sushanta
October 29, 2007, 05:12 PM
Let him defend what you are accusing of, directly.

Thank you.
Mijan.

MUA has already denied, so what type of documents he could show? And all the documents is in public domain as per now GMT 10.15 PM, Dated 29-10-2007.

So we can summarize him as a liar. If I am wrong pls educate me.

Murad
October 29, 2007, 05:30 PM
MUA has already denied, so what type of documents he could show? And all the documents is in public domain as per now GMT 10.15 PM, Dated 29-10-2007.

So we can summarize him as a liar. If I am wrong pls educate me.

you have to ask him to check out what documents he can show. don't call anyone liar without prover evidence. first find out the evidence then judge who's a liar and who is not. don't just blindly call him a liar.

some person calling you a AL supporter and you came to this site to prove you are not. if i ask you to prove that you are not a AL supporter, what documents would you show? will you be quiet as you already denied? or you will show some proofs just like you said about moin u ahmed.?


i am hoping you willl show us some evidence next time with your posts that gen. moin is a corrupt and a liar.

thank you.

sushanta
October 29, 2007, 06:33 PM
i am hoping you willl show us some evidence next time with your posts that gen. moin is a corrupt and a liar.

thank you.


Yes, the evidence has already been shown about the 66 lakh taka loan repayment by a year. I would be pleased if you would read the final reports here. (http://www.e-bangladesh.org/2007/10/23/financial-statement-confirms-trust-bank-loan/).

However, we all love our country and it should be continued.

Murad
October 29, 2007, 06:49 PM
Yes, the evidence has already been shown about the 66 lakh taka loan repayment by a year. I would be pleased if you would read the final reports here. (http://www.e-bangladesh.org/2007/10/23/financial-statement-confirms-trust-bank-loan/).

However, we all love our country and it should be continued.

No that!

prove that hes corrupted. whatever you wrote there is about the loan. taking loan and paying it back is not corruption. since you saying hes corrupted, show us the evidence like whom he took the money from, where he stole it from, anything. don't just show the bank loan and payments. he perhaps didn't use the money and paid it early. this doesn't prove that hes a corrupt.

you have to find out where and from whom he took money as bribe or something since you brought up the allegation against him that hes a corrupt.

i'm looking forward to see those documents not bank n loan things..

thank you..

sushanta
October 29, 2007, 07:05 PM
He perhaps didn't use the money and paid it early.



Let MUA confess it. Why you my frnd?

Miraz
October 29, 2007, 07:19 PM
Let MUA confess it. Why you my frnd?

Welcome sushanta to BanglaCricket. Enjoy your stay!

Miraz
October 29, 2007, 07:20 PM
Let MUA confess it. Why you my frnd?

Welcome sushanta to BanglaCricket. Enjoy your stay!


You can write about yourself in this thread.

Introduce Yourself (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=6983)

ialbd
October 29, 2007, 07:32 PM
welcome to banglacricket shushanta.....

maybe some of these allegations against MUA is indeed true, but we Bangladeshis set such a high standard of corruption, these allegations doesnt even fall under "chhichka" churi......

the way ctg (& MUA) appeared as the savior for BD (and ofcourse I'll pick MUA over the two begums anyday and I dont mind if you call me irrational/brainwashed etc), you might have a hard time publicizing these ideas (perhaps need more concrete materials)....

please visit this forum regularly, we enjoy/encourage constructive & intellectual debates all the time.......

billah
October 29, 2007, 07:33 PM
No that!

prove that hes corrupted. whatever you wrote there is about the loan. taking loan and paying it back is not corruption. since you saying hes corrupted, show us the evidence like whom he took the money from, where he stole it from, anything. don't just show the bank loan and payments. he perhaps didn't use the money and paid it early. this doesn't prove that hes a corrupt.

you have to find out where and from whom he took money as bribe or something since you brought up the allegation against him that hes a corrupt.

i'm looking forward to see those documents not bank n loan things..

thank you..

Yes, Sushanta bhaia: One simple thing I've been hinting at. Where's the beef? Where's the corruption? In my first post here, I asked people to turn their common sense switch on. I take ten bucks, return 6. Where's the problem?

Or, do you have something against MUA? Are you biased against him for any reason? Have you been damaged by him in any way? These days, only three kinds of people are shading crocodile tears about democracy in Bangladesh.

- People associated with corrupt politicians and criminals

- people associated with corrupt bureaucrats, and

- Special foreign interest NGO and other apparently well-meaning psuodo-orgs (drishtipat comes to mind)

I say, contact MUA yourself, ask him what this "shoddy" business of repaying loan is all about. You've got enormous interest in him, it seems, of all things. Let us know what you find out.

Cheers.

Miraz
October 29, 2007, 07:46 PM
welcome to banglacricket shushanta.....

..................but we Bangladeshis set such a high standard of corruption, ...............



Hahahaha well said ialbd.

Had a good laugh after reading this sentence. :)

sushanta
October 29, 2007, 07:52 PM
I say, contact MUA yourself, ask him what this "shoddy" business of repaying loan is all about. You've got enormous interest in him, it seems, of all things. Let us know what you find out.

Cheers.

The thread seems to have a wise ending. Okey, let me get direct touch of MUA. If MUA had willingness to show his positive attitude, let him pass all his documents of paying 66 lakh by a year. I must and must publicize the whole story and i can word you i will do my best to inform everybody as i and our team can do.

OR if you ppl can collect those, pls pass me.

Enjoying a lot BC.:D

layperson
October 29, 2007, 08:28 PM
Loan default is a problem. I knew that. Now I am hearing that paying back a loan is corruption !!!!!Where is your common sense Mr. Sushanta? You are alleging him to be corrupt based on the fact he repaid 66 lakhs in one year. Repaying the money is not corruption. He could have repaid it in a number of ways. As Murad bhai aptly mentioned he might not have used his loan money and just paid it back or he could have had someone else pay it for him. His brother, his friend or his wellwishers. You can only call him corrupt if you can bring forward proof of him getting this money from illegal source or methods which neither you nor anyone else is doing. This is call yellow journalism I believe. The onus of the proof is not on Mr Moeen but you and other journalists. Billah bhai has very nicely categorized the people who are having issues with all that bis happening in Bangladesh. Which one do you fall under?

HereWeGo
October 29, 2007, 11:39 PM
Ahem... Sushanto babu, I mean, bhaia, It seems you, and/or e-bangladesh.org has a rep for creating fiction. Besides, your bias is pretty clear here, justifying that proverb in your post.

If your "org" can produce something (other than these fickle-brain mock stories) that is worthy of my attention, I'll be sure to spend my time on it. 'Til then, I suggest you spend more time in rebuilding your credibility eh?

Thanks.

The method u have adopted to justify that Gen moeen is not corrupt is a very old and bad method. You are trying to discredit e bangladesh just because u think they are biased towards AL. Where as u should look at the evidence they provide and try to dicdredit that. It is like saying that just because daily sangram and ntv reported abt Awami leaugue brutality on aug( or Oct) 28 that means that the news is false.
Very bad logic dude...... And we have a history of corrupt army officials, plus they havent still touched any top level jamaat islami leaders. Makes u woder doesnt it?

Banglatiger84
October 29, 2007, 11:52 PM
[quote=Tigers_eye;559711]Welcome Sushanta to BC.


When a person is judging a matter, he/she must give both sides a fair hearing. Not base his/her judgment on someone else's statement. quote]


Sorry to be pedantic, but we have been basing our judgements on someone else's statement all the time, particularly when it came to corrupt BNP/AL leaders. How many of us can document all instances of corruption for all the arrested politicians?

Yes we know they are corrupt and some of us call for them to be hanged/shot, but mostly it is a prejudged notion.

Yes, in all probability, the General is not corrupt, while most arrested politians are corrupt , but in many cases its just a whim and willingness to hear what we want to hear and close our ears when its criticism of our favorite leader/politician.

Banglatiger84
October 29, 2007, 11:55 PM
[quote=billah;559902]These days, only three kinds of people are shading crocodile tears about democracy in Bangladesh.

- People associated with corrupt politicians and criminals

- people associated with corrupt bureaucrats, and

- Special foreign interest NGO and other apparently well-meaning psuodo-orgs (drishtipat comes to mind)

quote]

Nice try in lumping genuine critics of CTG with supporters of corrupt politicians.

Has it occured to you that there may be people who want the CTG to do better but dont want a return to the previous democracy as well?

layperson
October 30, 2007, 01:22 AM
Sorry to be pedantic, but we have been basing our judgements on someone else's statement all the time, particularly when it came to corrupt BNP/AL leaders. How many of us can document all instances of corruption for all the arrested politicians?

Yes we know they are corrupt and some of us call for them to be hanged/shot, but mostly it is a prejudged notion.

Yes, in all probability, the General is not corrupt, while most arrested politians are corrupt , but in many cases its just a whim and willingness to hear what we want to hear and close our ears when its criticism of our favorite leader/politician.

Once again, the politicans have specific corruption charges brought against them which are now under trial. The so called corruption charge against the general is that he returned 66 lakhs taka of his loan to the bank. HOw can that be a corruption charge ? If they said that he returned ill earned money to the bank through "X" dubious deal then that would have been a corruption charge. Doesnt this make sense? [quote]

sushanta
October 30, 2007, 02:29 AM
Loan default is a problem. I knew that. Now I am hearing that paying back a loan is corruption !!!!!Where is your common sense Mr. Sushanta?


Please dont attack personally. MUA has taken the loan and used the money to build a multi-storied bldg. So my request: keep your eyes on facts and dont be blind to anyone. As i saw in the BC, there is no logic working and [বাংলা]এখানে গায়ের জোরে কথা বলা হয়।[/বাংলা]

Sumon77
October 30, 2007, 02:54 AM
Just a thought... if the 66 lakh loan money was returned within same year.... there is a possibility that, first 99 lakh was taken, but 66 lakh was returned very shortly, so net loan taken by him was around 34 lakhs but for documnetation everything is recorded in bank statement. If you can get excact date of taking the total loan and returning 66 lakh will help in this regard.

Sumon77
October 30, 2007, 02:56 AM
Please dont attack personally. MUA has taken the loan and used the money to build a multi-storied bldg. So my request: keep your eyes on facts and dont be blind to anyone. As i saw in the BC, there is no logic working and [বাংলা]এখানে গায়ের জোরে কথা বলা হয়।[/বাংলা]
btw, welcome to BC. Stay for a while. Dont you think its too early to judge?

billah
October 30, 2007, 03:05 AM
Please dont attack personally. MUA has taken the loan and used the money to build a multi-storied bldg. So my request: keep your eyes on facts and dont be blind to anyone. As i saw in the BC, there is no logic working and [বাংলা]এখানে গায়ের জোরে কথা বলা হয়।[/বাংলা]

sushanta bhaijan: apni nijei amake personally attack kore insulting kotha bolilen ektu age.

Basically, you are saying MUA took loan, repaid a large chunk of it, so he is corrupt. What you are using as "Evidence", well, even first year accounting students would not make that mistake. Evidence of corruption & that bank report, are apples and oranges. No correlations. You will understand, if you understand the basis of that report. Evidence of corruption, if any, in this case, has to come from elsewhere, with solid proofs and witnesses.

Hacheena's case is a good example. Credible witnesses from her own family and her party, probable cause and other relevant issues. As for the so-called "Evidence" against MUA, there is, thus far, none produced. End of story. Unless, of course, you want to invent a story in this.

Khamakha pani ghola korte chan keno ke jane....

billah
October 30, 2007, 03:19 AM
[quote=billah;559902]These days, only three kinds of people are shading crocodile tears about democracy in Bangladesh.

- People associated with corrupt politicians and criminals

- people associated with corrupt bureaucrats, and

- Special foreign interest NGO and other apparently well-meaning psuodo-orgs (drishtipat comes to mind)

quote]

Nice try in lumping genuine critics of CTG with supporters of corrupt politicians.

Has it occured to you that there may be people who want the CTG to do better but dont want a return to the previous democracy as well?

Banglatiger84: Sorry, if I sounded that way. Let me explain what I tried to point out in that post.

This is exactly what I see among the general population of Bangladesh, from personal and direct contact with everyday people like Rickshawalas, labors, hawkers, grocers and even beggers. During the DU problems of August, I took my own little survey out of curiosity. I asked around in Dhaka about what lay persons thought about the whole trouble. Unanimously, they said they did not want this military backed government to be bashful about being ruthless. People want rule of law applied positively.

In my experience, it's only those three groups that are not so enthusiastic about the CTG. Yes, there are those that would criticize the CTG just so they do better, however, overwhelming majority of every day folks just compare what we had before to the present day scenario. Yes, everyone complains about high prices, however, they are ready to give it some more time.

But those 3 groups I mentioned, are in general the most lividly intolerant of the CTG, and for good reason, I suppose. They are not even trying to be "genuine critics", they are just grabbing onto any issue they can, however fictitious that may be.

Prime example is this thread topic.

billah
October 30, 2007, 03:32 AM
The method u have adopted to justify that Gen moeen is not corrupt is a very old and bad method. You are trying to discredit e bangladesh just because u think they are biased towards AL. Where as u should look at the evidence they provide and try to dicdredit that. It is like saying that just because daily sangram and ntv reported abt Awami leaugue brutality on aug( or Oct) 28 that means that the news is false.
Very bad logic dude...... And we have a history of corrupt army officials, plus they havent still touched any top level jamaat islami leaders. Makes u woder doesnt it?

The logic may seem bad to you, only if you consider this mumbo-jumbo as "evidence". Please think.

What evidence?
Evidence of what?
Evidence of whose corruption?
Why?
How?
Where?
When?

If you are able to answer ANY of the above to support this allegation, you should start giving the story some credibility. As it stands, no evidence exist, only some people are trying to muck up the water.

According to you, we have a history of corrupt army official. Who knows, may be MUA is corrupt. But I don't see any so-called "Evidence" yet. Let's see something first that can be called "Evidence".

e-bangladesh discredited themselves, by creating a fictitious story, based on pure assumptions. Their assumption: "Moeen toook loan, then repaid about 2/3 of it within a year. How was he able to do that? He must be corrupt !"

Should I just automatically call MUA a corrupt army official just because someone says he is corrupt? Is that good logic? I thought we are all innocent until PROVEN guilty !

That would be my logic, good or bad. Thank you.

Spitfire_x86
October 30, 2007, 03:38 AM
This is exactly what I see among the general population of Bangladesh, from personal and direct contact with everyday people like Rickshawalas, labors, hawkers, grocers and even beggers. During the DU problems of August, I took my own little survey out of curiosity. I asked around in Dhaka about what lay persons thought about the whole trouble. Unanimously, they said they did not want this military backed government to be bashful about being ruthless. People want rule of law applied positively.
People also didn't support pointless hartals called by BNP (during AL regime) and AL (during BNP regime). That wasn't because the ruling party was flawless. Majority of BD population's fate doesn't change with the change of government, so they don't expect anything apart from little peace from them.

If AL created chaos didn't result in cancellation of election and BNP retained power, the obvious things would happen again. Then you would get the same answer from public. This wouldn't mean they the ruling party is flawless.

Special 1
October 30, 2007, 04:03 AM
[quote=layperson;559948]Once again, the politicans have specific corruption charges brought against them which are now under trial. The so called corruption charge against the general is that he returned 66 lakhs taka of his loan to the bank. HOw can that be a corruption charge ? If they said that he returned ill earned money to the bank through "X" dubious deal then that would have been a corruption charge. Doesnt this make sense?

I agree with the second part of your post, but not the first.
Some of the politicians were arrested without any corruption charges against them. For example, Tareq zia does not have a specific corruption charge against him. Moudud ahmed does not have a corruption charge against him. and there are many more examples. I am not trying to defend anyone here, but double standards exist when people talk about people they like and dislike.
And with regards to our general being corrupt, I would say he is. Just look at BCB. The head of BCB is an army person. Similarly there are other examples. But the question is whether these things effect people's lives and the answer is no. My point is every one who has to use their discretion in public posts can be shown out to be corrupt to some levels.

Special 1
October 30, 2007, 04:17 AM
- People associated with corrupt politicians and criminals

- people associated with corrupt bureaucrats, and

- Special foreign interest NGO and other apparently well-meaning psuodo-orgs (drishtipat comes to mind)


I do not fall under any of the three catagories. But i am not very enthusiastic about the CTG and its actions.

Most people are happy that the CTG is having a crack at catching the corrupt politicans. But that is the only thing they can show in the last 9 months. It cannot be the only goal for a government. Also, the way they are going about with those cases is not very sound. Using emergency law for everything is not a solution. Haisna and khaleda's lawyer in an interview the other day pointed this out.

I read a report a few days back in one of the newspapers, and it showed that in the first 2 or 3 months of the fiscal year, the ministries have only spend 2-3 percent of their total allocations. This is not something you would expect from a good government. In their defence, they only have 10 advisors. But why are they not hiring more advisors(using a PO)? They have been talking about it for the last 8 months. Price hike is another issue.

The point is that the CTG has given us enough reason not to be happy and if people are not so enthusiastic about their actions do not label them as people with "ill intentions"

sushanta
October 30, 2007, 04:57 AM
Taking loan is not called corruption.
Paying back the loan is not a crime.
And
Telling lie is either not a corruption.
But
The lie from A top ranked Govt Official is beyond all the corruptions and crime.
Please agree it.

Miraz
October 30, 2007, 05:15 AM
Taking loan is not called corruption.
Paying back the loan is not a crime.
And
Telling lie is either not a corruption.
But
The lie from A top ranked Govt Official is beyond all the corruptions and crime.
Please agree it.

So, you are ending up that he lied about his loan!

Now, for the sake of argument, can you please tell us how many lies our beloved top politicians have said about their wealth?

Forget about the public commitments, they are all lies.

cricket_pagol
October 30, 2007, 06:10 AM
maybe some of these allegations against MUA is indeed true, but we Bangladeshis set such a high standard of corruption, these allegations doesnt even fall under "chhichka" churi......

the way ctg (& MUA) appeared as the savior for BD (and ofcourse I'll pick MUA over the two begums anyday and I dont mind if you call me irrational/brainwashed etc), you might have a hard time publicizing these ideas (perhaps need more concrete materials)....


I agree with you. Nobody is perfect (this govt is far from from being perfect), but this army backed CTG is the best bet we have to fix our country which has been raped by BNP and AL cronies. This is just my opinion. But, this does not mean I will blindly support everything that this government does... I am truly disappointed with some of the members attempts to stereotype CTG critics and silence them. It reminds me of the tactics that Bush used, when a few people protested against the war in 2003. Those protesters were labeled as unpatriotic liberals who doesn't support the troops and American freedom.

Taking loan is not called corruption.
Paying back the loan is not a crime. And
Telling lie is either not a corruption.But
The lie from A top ranked Govt Official is beyond all the corruptions and crime.
Please agree it.

Gen Moeen is not infallible, he can make mistakes. One mistake does not make him an evil person. But, compared to what Hasina and Khaleda has done to the country in the last 15yrs, this is nothing!!! They abused there position of power in every possible way , when they got an opportunity. They took kick backs from every major deals with foreign companies and sacrificed the interest of the country with out even blinking. I think this government is more patriotic than other government we had. To me, Gen Moeen just lost his moral high ground. I think he needs to clarify his position by showing documents. If he does not clarify his position, he will be guilty in my eyes. It's not fair to make a judgment until he gets ample opportunity to defend himself. The way bangladeshi news outlet is handling this scandal makes me wonder how much freedom they have... this is not a good sign.

One more thing, I have problems with you guys (e-bangladesh, dinkal like news outlet) when you take a moral high ground and bash current government and but support AL propaganda and refuse to critize AL records. You are basically working for the political parties and serving their interest... you don't care about the general public.

sushanta
October 30, 2007, 09:39 AM
To me, Gen Moeen just lost his moral high ground. I think he needs to clarify his position by showing documents. If he does not clarify his position, he will be guilty in my eyes.

Okey., I am very thankful to you to understand the actual view about MUA.