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View Full Version : A Saudi woman sentenced to 6 months & 200 lashes!


Moshin
November 22, 2007, 11:58 AM
A woman in Saudi Arabia who was raped by 7 men, has been sentenced to 6 months in jail with 200 lashes, the reason why this is, because she has spoken to the media about the case. As a matter of fact, she was raped and she had to sit in the same court with the rapist(s) which is very unappropriate, when the woman is basically terified of the attack. The whole reason why this has happened, because women are not allowed to go outside without a male relative in the kingdom, and therfore she has been punished by this sentence, I dont know whether this is right or wrong.

Do you think it was right for the Saudi judge to sentence the victim,
and do you think the king should drop the case for her, and is this the right
punishment and justice for a woman:-/
To see the video report view this link on CNN: http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/20/saudi.rape.victim/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
or on AlJazeera: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9DB6EE1E-4173-4ED8-A520-429777F3F4BF.htm

Special 1
November 22, 2007, 12:17 PM
I thought she got sentenced for getting in a car with another man.The man also got the same sentence. Also the rapists got punishment.
however, this will be a deterrent for victims to come to court in the future.

Rabz
November 22, 2007, 12:19 PM
This sort of thing gives Islam a bad name, thats all.
The Wahabi sect of ruling elite in Saudi have a different interpretions of Quran and in general being of lifestyle.

Im not even going there, as its a whole new topic.
I dont like Sauds and Arabs in general. Enough said.

As for this case, last time i heard the young lady,19, refused the punishment and hence it drew international attention.
So she should. Good on her.
Even after not knowing the whole story, im with her.

We are with her.

Kabir
November 22, 2007, 12:21 PM
Nobody can argue with the King, and that's the way things work.
This is very unfortunate. Soon, the story will take the shape of "Woman who got raped has been sentenced to 6 months and 200 lashes under Islamic law". Just wait and watch.

The problem is, Islam teaches us something, and we do something completely different. If I'm not wrong, Islam also requires the 7 men to be given the death penalty. I wonder how much of that is going to be discussed in the media.

Special 1
November 22, 2007, 12:26 PM
well, the lashing is supposed to be done with feathers as well.

Rabz
November 22, 2007, 12:32 PM
well, the lashing is supposed to be done with feathers as well.

Feathers???
last time i heard those feathers were not that soft and silky.....

Special 1
November 22, 2007, 12:37 PM
Feathers???
last time i heard those feathers were not that soft and silky.....

no that is according to the quran. feather diya pitano is allowed.
I donno about this case

Kabir
November 22, 2007, 12:41 PM
If it's feather, I would love to get lashed everyday...may be a thousand times a day. Ohhh..bring it on.

Special 1
November 22, 2007, 01:04 PM
If it's feather, I would love to get lashed everyday...may be a thousand times a day. Ohhh..bring it on.

U sick perverted ba*****
:-p

al Furqaan
November 22, 2007, 02:58 PM
Nobody can argue with the King, and that's the way things work.
This is very unfortunate. Soon, the story will take the shape of "Woman who got raped has been sentenced to 6 months and 200 lashes under Islamic law". Just wait and watch.

The problem is, Islam teaches us something, and we do something completely different. If I'm not wrong, Islam also requires the 7 men to be given the death penalty. I wonder how much of that is going to be discussed in the media.

spot on. the men got jail sentence of a few years when they should have been 6 feet under by now. but the news won't report that.

Beamer
November 22, 2007, 03:43 PM
A regime change in Saudi Arabia is overdue by a hundred years.

Rubu
November 22, 2007, 04:13 PM
Was the lady a soudi born or an immigrant? not that soudis treats women any better, but they treats immigrants even worse (yes, their law that is)

ialbd
November 22, 2007, 04:30 PM
dont want to judge who did the crime, or what is the justified punishment...

my concern is, when these news come out (as the thread title suggests), it automatically gives a negative impression about Muslims (my guess is the western world cant tell the difference between Muslims & Saudis).
The false idea of, 'Islam = Women oppression' gets stronger and stronger with these news headline (no matter what the actual news is)...

HereWeGo
November 22, 2007, 08:23 PM
Simply makes me Angry. How can something like this happen with Civilised world.
I guess the movie "syriana" is a true portrayal of the lack of education on the part of the Saudi Elites. Watch that movie if u havent.

Ajfar
November 22, 2007, 11:30 PM
thiss...is messedd upp

cricket_pagol
November 23, 2007, 12:30 AM
Simply makes me Angry. How can something like this happen with Civilised world.
I guess the movie "syriana" is a true portrayal of the lack of education on the part of the Saudi Elites. Watch that movie if u havent.

Syriana is a really good movie, watch it if you already haven't!

Ganguly da
November 26, 2007, 03:21 AM
dont want to judge who did the crime, or what is the justified punishment...

my concern is, when these news come out (as the thread title suggests), it automatically gives a negative impression about Muslims (my guess is the western world cant tell the difference between Muslims & Saudis).
The false idea of, 'Islam = Women oppression' gets stronger and stronger with these news headline (no matter what the actual news is)...

i thought Saudi arabia is the self proclaimed land of islam with mecca and medina? if so, then how are saudis different from muslims? I thought they follow the purest form of islam and everything according to the good book?

Rifat
November 26, 2007, 04:58 AM
peace be upon all the believers,

may allah forgive me for this comment:

i may be inaccurate, but rape, and a decline of law and order in the islamic republic is one of minor signs that happens when we approach the day of judgement or qiamah according to hadith.

does it say anywhere in the news report where the male was punished?how were they punished? if they are just lightly punished or not punished at all, then this is not even close to the virtues of Islam ordained by the prophet(Peace be upon him).

i do not think nowhere in the holy quran does it ever say to punish the adultress with "feather". if i am wrong, may allah forgive me. but whomever pointed that out please properly cite surah/chapter and verse/ayat.

i do believe according to laws of shariah, the women should be punished, but putting her in jail is something i do not believe is preached y Allah and his messengers. again, allah may forgive me if i am wrong.

salaam, Rifat

Anher
November 26, 2007, 11:09 AM
If that way can keep the rape under control i am with Saudi Court. Have a look into the follwoing world rape statistics.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

Why every single thing happend in a muslim country have to pick by international media?
Watch the lectures below by dr. zakir Naik Regarding Islam and western media
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV59kaRJeC8

akabir77
November 26, 2007, 11:28 AM
Churi korley haat katey taholey to Rape korley .... kata uchit...

Shala Saudi pita...

cricket_dorshok
November 26, 2007, 11:29 AM
Churi korley haat katey taholey to Rape korley .... kata uchit...

Shala Saudi pita...
:floor::floor::floor::floor::floor:

ialbd
November 26, 2007, 02:49 PM
i thought Saudi arabia is the self proclaimed land of islam with mecca and medina? if so, then how are saudis different from muslims? I thought they follow the purest form of islam and everything according to the good book?

exactly my point Ganguly_da. this is a very typical misconception. Saudis are just .....

On my first year in univ in Canada, I was shocked to see my Arab friends drinking and partying and with all the money they brought from home they are just happy and proud doing it.....

Mecca & Medina is still our holy land, but the saudis (not everyone ofcourse) are far from pure/perfect muslims. You'll figure it out within minutes after talking with one....

akabir77
November 26, 2007, 03:16 PM
i thought Saudi arabia is the self proclaimed land of islam with mecca and medina? if so, then how are saudis different from muslims? I thought they follow the purest form of islam and everything according to the good book?

so u r saying there r no HIndu's from India do anything stupid?

Banglatiger84
November 27, 2007, 12:33 AM
[quote=ialbd;568663]exactly my point Ganguly_da. this is a very typical misconception. Saudis are just .....

On my first year in univ in Canada, I was shocked to see my Arab friends drinking and .........quote]


The key part is that you were "shocked". Many Bangladeshis have a notion of Arabs to be perfect Muslims, I have no idea where they get this notion from, but they all get "shocked" when the see the perfect Muslims drinking.

Muslims from all races can be good or bad,

PoorFan
November 27, 2007, 03:19 AM
Seems like this case is not just an accidental or ordinary rape case, rather those quotes from BBC report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7112999.stm) suggest something to ponder with. S<!--StartFragment -->omething happened out of hatred, anger and planed perhaps for whatever reason. And Saudi officials are doing their bureaucratic, religious job at best, now claim she confessed to have extramarital affair!?!

The charged girl is a married woman who confessed to having an affair with the man she was caught with.

I wonder what extent of 'affair' was she involved with that person after and even before her marriage. Was it a literally 'adultery' case or was it just few date and IT based ( internet, cell phone ) communication?

Initially she was convicted for 90 lashes by judges, saying she violated Saudi law since 'she was in an unrelated man's car'. When she appealed, judges doubled her sentence ( to 200 lashes and six months in prison ), saying she had been trying to use the media to influence them. Finally this week, the judges come up backing their ruling as legal, saying she had extramarital affair?!? Something really suspicious going on in this case in my observation.

Secondly, She was gang-raped 14 times, Seven men were found guilty of the rape ( both of She and her male companion ), and later Four of the men were convicted of kidnapping! Isn't this 'kidnap' as well as 'rape a man' suggest something more than a mere rape case? Isn't it hard to believe that they were so desperate to have sex even a male?? rather these people seems to be known to the girl and the man, having extreme hate or anger for whatever reason ( towards them ) to punish or humiliate them.

She has reportedly said she met the car-owner in order to retrieve a photo of them together, having herself recently got married.

She says two men entered the car and drove them to a secluded area where others were waiting, and both she and her male companion were raped.

Finally, in her post married life, the girl may had some fear of potential problem, with her pre married relationship ( perhaps with ex-boyfriend ), for which she wanted to retrieve a photo of them together as she claimed. It is obvious that those gang people who attacked and raped them, are somehow related to this girl and the man, not just an accidental victim I guess.

Anyway, I hope she and the man get proper justice, and those convicted get what they deserve.

Alien
November 27, 2007, 07:00 AM
Do you think it was right for the Saudi judge to sentence the victim,
and do you think the king should drop the case for her, and is this the right
punishment and justice for a woman:-/

What kind of question is that? Since did Saudis do anything "right"?

What's more disturbing is that US, the biggest advocate of "freedom of speech and tonnes of other BS" finds it astonishing. Nothing else.

Alien
November 27, 2007, 07:10 AM
Nothing is Islamic about Saudi Arabia. Their interpretation of Islam is as wrong (if not as worse) as Laden/Taliban.

The fact that the linage of Kings goes through the same family in itself is un-Islamic. Islam teaches promotion by merits.

To cut a long story short, what Saudis do and always do is try to play God. No wonder they are such a miserable lots who cant get peanuts worth support and liking anywhere even with so much money, oil and investment.

akabir77
November 27, 2007, 11:10 AM
they r puppets headed by a joker (Bush)

sunnyctg
November 27, 2007, 07:37 PM
meh I dont know who is guilty but saudi arab is a country of barbarians. I dont expect any civilised act from em

Sohel
November 28, 2007, 04:39 AM
Here's a 'Quranist' view on beating women, state sponsored or not: -

Are Women to be Beaten?
By Layth (e-mail: laytth@hotmail.com)

In some parts of the Middle East and other areas of the Muslim world, a woman may be beaten severely by her husband or male relatives for something as ridiculous as not having dinner prepared on time. It is a common theme amongst some male Muslims to beat their women whenever they think it is deserved and they can rest assured that the entire Islamic Scholars will be right behind them for support.

Although this may sound bizarre, the Muslim Scholars (should be SOME SCHOLARS, NOT ALL as implied here by my overly zealous fellow traveler here) have told people that God has ordained in His holy book that women may be beaten if their male counter-part is not pleased with them. The verse that Muslims claim gives a green light to commit violence against their women-folk is the following:

[Yusufali Translation]: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear "Nushooz" disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) "Idribuhun" beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)." (4:34)

If indeed God had commanded men to beat their `disloyal` women, then we have no course of action but to `hear & obey`...However, there is more than meets the eye in accepting the common interpretation of verse 4:34 which is the subject of this article.

The Quran is best studied by placing all similar subject words/verses together (this approach is called `Tarteel` and has been advised by the Almighty in 73:4).

There are two key words that are central to deriving the correct meaning for this topic:

1. Nushuz (translated above `disloyalty & ill-conduct).

2. Idribuhun (translated above as `beat them`).

The first word `Nushooz` will give us an understanding of what the subject is all about...Is this about a woman who is disloyal and in ill-conduct (an adulteress or temptress perhaps?) Or, has this word been mistranslated based on a backdrop of social ignorance and male domination?

Nushooz means: `to rise / go above`.

This can be seen clearly in 58:11 where people are told to `Nushooz` from the place of gathering/sitting.

[Yusufali Translation]: O ye who believe! When ye are told to make room in the assemblies, (spread out and) make room: (ample) room will Allah provide for you. And when ye are told "Inshuzoo" *to rise up, rise up Allah will rise up, to (suitable) ranks (and degrees), those of you who believe and who have been granted (mystic) Knowledge. And Allah is well-acquainted with all ye do." (58:11)

* Notice how our translator [Yusufali] has given the correct translation in the verse, whereas in 4:34 it was all about `disloyalty & ill-conduct`.

Therefore, the issue we are dealing with here is not adultery or some other act of immorality, but rather it is the subject of a woman `rebelling / going against` her husband (going above them, not acknowledging the other, not listening, deserting them, etc.).

Let us read what the Quran tells us to do when it is the man that is doing the `Nushooz` and not the woman:

[Yusufali Translation]: If a wife fears cruelty or "Nushooz" **desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do." (4:128)

** Again, we see our translator [yusufali] magically giving the correct meaning by translating `Nushooz` as `desertion` when it just happened that the male was the subject matter!

The Quran tells us that if the man is the one who is doing the `Nushooz` then the couple need to reconcile or part since he obviously has rebelled against his wife (can't stand to be with her, finds himself wanting to leave from her presence, etc..)...The verse does not say that the woman should `beat` the man into submission or bring her men-folk to do so in order to knock some sense into him...It says they should talk, and reconcile, since obviously this is an issue which needs people to come-back into respecting and loving one another, or part ways.

Now to move back to the verse where the woman is the one doing the `Nushooz` using the correct translation:

"The men are to support the women by what God has gifted them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright women who are attentive, and keep private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those women from whom you fear a "Nushooz" desertion, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchamber, and "Idribuhun" Beat them?; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great.` (4:34)

If we look at the subject matter, it is of a woman who cannot stand her man and therefore has rebelled from him...As with the example of the man being the one rebelling, there are steps to `calm things down` and to bring harmony into the marriage...Beating a woman if she can't stand her man and has rebelled against him will only make her hate him more (not exactly a logical or practical solution to the problem).

Obviously now that the subject has been better understood, it is the second word "Idribuhun" which needs examination in light of the Quran.

"Have you not seen how God puts forth (Daraba) the example of a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and its branches in the sky." (The Message 14:24)

"For the poor who face hardship in the cause of God, they cannot go forth (Darban) in the land; the ignorant ones think they are rich from their modesty; you know them by their features, they do not ask the people repeatedly. And what you spend out of goodness, God is fully aware of it." (2:273)

Daraba (in its natural state) means: `to put forth`

The only reason this word can sometimes mean hit/strike is because a person is `putting forth` his hand when striking someone (see 8:12, 8:50, 47:27).

"And if you could only see as the Angels take those who have rejected, they "Yadriboon" strike their faces and their backs: `Taste the punishment of the blazing Fire!`" (8:50)

Looking back at 4:34, we see that the context of the verse (solving the wife's rejection of her husband) leads us to choose the natural meaning of "Darab" which is: `to put forth` and not the alternative meaning of `strike`.

"The men are to support the women by what God has gifted them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright women who are attentive, and keep private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those women from whom you fear a desertion, then you shall 1) advise them, and 2) abandon them in the bedchamber, and 3) "Idribuhun" let them go forth; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great." (4:34)

The approach of choosing the `best` understanding and/or meaning is both logical and, more importantly, in-line with the guidance for study we are given by God:

"The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the BEST of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence." (39:18)

What we have now is a comprehensive list of steps in order for a man to deal with his wife who wants to desert her husband and can no longer stand to be with him...

Talk about it. This is obviously the simplest and healthiest method since it opens the communication channel between both parties.

Abstain from sharing the same bed. This is the 2nd approach the man is advised to use if they are unable to reconcile their problem as the lack of sexual contact may lead to the wife to cool down as intimate contact may simply inflame the situation if she is unable to stand her husband.

1. Separate from each other. The 3rd and final line of advice is designed as a 'cooling-off' period and is mainly designed to help the wife re-think and examine the situation closely without the physical presence of her husband.

2. The logic and clarity of the above steps are a far cry from the wife beating and bashing claims which this article started off examining....

3. As for those who have been promoting the evil inherited from their forefathers while claiming falsely it was from God...

"And if they commit evil acts, they Say: `We found our fathers doing such, and God ordered us to it.` Say: `God does not order evil! Do you say about God what you do not know?` Say: `My Lord orders justice, and that you be devoted at every temple, and that you call on Him, while being faithful to Him in the system; as He initiated you, so you will return.` A group He has guided and a group have deserved misguidance; that is because they have taken the devils as allies besides God; and they think they are guided!" (7:28-30)

Questions / Issues

Below are some arguments/questions which have been presented in support of the understanding to `beat women` as claimed is the true meaning in 4:34.

In Arabic, the word for `separate from them` is `IdribuANhun` and not `Idribuhun` as used in 4:34. Therefore `beat` is the correct meaning.

The people who raise such linguistic obstacles fail to notice that God uses the very same word `Darab` such as in 14:24 without any prefix.

"Have you not seen how God puts forth (Daraba) the example of a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and its branches in the sky." (The Message 14:24)

Would they claim by the very same linguistic argument that God is `beating` an example? Or, will they accept that without any prefix the word can mean to `put forth`?

The word `Idrib` means `beat` if applied to a living object/thing and can mean otherwise if applied to a non-living object/thing.

This is mainly an argument put forth by groups who have preconceived notions and wish to keep believing that Islam is a mindless and barbaric system. The argument holds no merit based on linguistics or Arabic grammar. In-fact, the usage of the word `Idrib` as applied in verse 24:31 puts an end to this argument as the women are obviously not being commanded to `beat` their bosoms with their shawls, but rather they are commanded to `put-forth` their shawls:

"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent, and let them put-forth (YaDribna) their shawls over their cleavage..." (24:31)

LINK (http://www.free-minds.org/women/beating.htm)

Hypocrites always expose themselves through their arrogant attitudes and subsequent acts of impiety, and also through their perversion of the Word of GOD.

al Furqaan
November 28, 2007, 07:40 PM
excellent dig up sohel bhai...had been waiting to find such a technically correct explanation of the verse in question.

islamophobes beware, you're poorly constructed arguments are falling apart in our very face...muahahaha...

Moshin
December 1, 2007, 02:59 PM
i dont think its the people's fault that they are biased, because they must follow the strict rules of Islam and follow the Qur'an in the way it is said, you'll see there are many rights in other muslim countries, like Turkey, the majority dont even think religion is important, but in Saudi this is completely opposite.

oracle
December 14, 2007, 05:46 PM
Whenever i read about some saudi news, I just wonder about the ignorance of fellow muslims about the real history of the Saudi arabia and its relation to the British. I would urge folks to do their own research of the imperialist strategy of the British against the Ottoman empire which was their main focus and their tacit/active sponsorship of the wahabi movement.