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Ganguly da
December 23, 2007, 09:55 PM
Gaza’s Christians lay low this holiday
Activist’s death rocks tiny community, makes for ‘very sad Christmas’
The Associated Press
updated 6:01 p.m. CT, Sun., Dec. 23, 2007

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Gaza's tiny Christian community is keeping a low profile during Christmas this year, traumatized by the killing of a prominent activist after the Islamic Hamas group's takeover of the coastal territory.

Few Christmas trees are on display, churches are holding austere services and hundreds of Christians hope to travel to the West Bank to celebrate the holiday in Bethlehem. Many say they don't plan on returning to Gaza.

"We have a very sad Christmas," said Essam Farah, acting pastor of Gaza's Baptist Church, which has canceled its annual children's party because of the grim atmosphere.

About 3,000 Christians live in Gaza, an overwhelmingly conservative Muslim society of 1.5 million people. The two religions have generally had cordial relations over the years.

That relationship has been shaken since Hamas seized control of Gaza last June, and especially following the recent death of 32-year-old Rami Ayyad.

Ayyad, a member of the Baptist Church, managed Gaza's only Christian bookstore and was involved in many charitable activities. He was found shot in the head, his body thrown on a Gaza street in early October, 10 hours after he was kidnapped from the store.

He regularly received death threats from people angry about his perceived missionary work — a rarity among Gaza's Christians — and the store was firebombed six months before the kidnapping.

No group claimed responsibility for the killing, and no one has openly accused Hamas of persecution. But Christians fear that the Hamas takeover, along with the lack of progress in finding Ayyad's killers, has emboldened Islamic extremists.

Hamas offers handshakes, promises justice
Hamas has tried to calm jittery Christians with reassuring handshakes and official visits promising justice.

Hamas "will not spare any effort to find the culprits of this crime and bring them to justice," said spokesman Fawzi Barhoum. He insisted the killing was simply a "crime" and not religiously motivated.

At the Baptist Church on Sunday, just 10 people attended the regular weekly prayer service, down from an average of 70. There was no Christmas tree in sight.

Farah said the church's full-time pastor, along with his family and 12 employees of Ayyad's store, have relocated to the West Bank to wait out the tense atmosphere. Farah said he prayed for forgiveness and love among Muslims and Christians.

Migration has already begun
Community leaders say an unprecedented number of Christian families are already migrating from Gaza — rattled by the religious tensions and tough economic sanctions Israel imposed on the area after the Hamas takeover.

While no official statistics were available, the signs of the flight are evident. Rev. Manuel Musallem, head of Gaza's Roman Catholic church, said he alone knows of seven families that sold their properties and left the area, and 15 more are preparing to do the same.

Musallem blamed Israeli sanctions and excessive violence in Gaza for the flight.

"In previous years we didn't see this rate of migration," Musallem said. "Now, exit is not on individual basis. Whole families are leaving, selling their cars, homes and all their properties."

The signs of despair are evident at Ayyad's home. Posters declaring him a "martyr of Jesus" hang on the walls. There is no Christmas tree this year.

Ayyad's older brother, 35-year old Ibrahim, said his 6-year old son, Khedr, was nagged in school about his uncle's murder. Muslim schoolmates call him "infidel."

Ayyad's wife, Pauline, 29, left for Bethlehem a month ago with her two children. She said their 3-year-old son, George, has been shattered by his father's death.

"I tell him Papa Noel (Santa Claus) is coming to see you, and he tells me he wants Papa Rami," she said tearfully during a telephone interview.

Pauline, who is seven months pregnant, said she plans to come back to Gaza for the birth.

Leaving Gaza for good
But many Christians privately said they would use their travel permits to leave Gaza for good, even if that means remaining in the West Bank as illegal residents. Israeli security officials said they were permitting 400 Gaza Christians to travel through Israel to Bethlehem for Christmas.

A family of four, refusing to be identified for fear their permits would be revoked, have sold their house and car and packed their bags. The wife has transferred her job to the West Bank and enrolled her son and daughter in school there. "We fear what is to come," said the husband.

A distant relative of Ayyad, Fouad, said he also is packing up. He said his father, a guard at a local church, was stopped recently by unknown bearded men who put a gun to his head before he was rescued by passers-by.

"We don't know why it happened," the 20-year-old police officer said. "We can't be sure how they (Muslims) think anymore."

Those who are staying are trying to limit the risks. Nazek Surri, a Roman Catholic, walked out from Sunday's service with a Muslim-style scarf covering her head.

"We have to respect the atmosphere we are living in. We have to go with the trend," she said.

source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22380080/

sufism
December 24, 2007, 02:00 AM
ok bro, so what message are we expected to get from this article? This is not something unusual in Iraq, Palestine and Egypt ever since the war in 2003 began. ani-christian sentiments have grown among uneducated rural muslims as a result of the war. It is unfortunate but don see anything surprising about it. but religious haterd among muslims and christians were almost unheard of even a few years in palestine. it's not my opinion, i learned that from my christian palestinian friend.

Ganguly da
December 24, 2007, 02:45 PM
ok bro, so what message are we expected to get from this article? This is not something unusual in Iraq, Palestine and Egypt ever since the war in 2003 began. ani-christian sentiments have grown among uneducated rural muslims as a result of the war. It is unfortunate but don see anything surprising about it. but religious haterd among muslims and christians were almost unheard of even a few years in palestine. it's not my opinion, i learned that from my christian palestinian friend.

it's surprsing, because I thought, christians and muslims are quite united in palestine under one cause to get freedom.

ammark
December 24, 2007, 04:21 PM
it's surprsing, because I thought, christians and muslims are quite united in palestine under one cause to get freedom.

We erroneously overlook the Palestinian struggle against Israeli occupation as a homogenous one of Arabs vs Israeli Jews. The fact is that Palestine, Lebanon and now Iraq have some deep divisions politically which is now having an influence greatly on the society as well.

When Yasir Arafat led Fatah, for much of his life he was regarded as a terrorist. What we notice though is that Fatah represented both Christians and Muslims. Some of Fatah's prominent leadership (Hannan Ashrawi and Saeb Erakat) are Palestinian, Arab Christians. People like the late Prof. Edward Said have also been members of the Palestinian Legislative Council but were not the representatives of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). PLO is a confederation of Parties that is the face of the Palestinians when dealing with other countries, with Fatah having the greatest influence in it. However, Hamas as the majority seatholder for the Palestinian Legislative Council is in charge of the Palestinian Authority - to look after and administer the Palestinian territories internally.

There are also other Parties such as Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in Palestine that have made news headlines. The fact is Fatah has its militant wings, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, so does Hamas with its Ezzedine Al-Qassam Brigades, and there's Islamic Jihad and PFLP. They all differ politically on some platforms, while being united on the fact that Palestine must be free from Israeli occupation and oppression. But over the years, their political differences has caused a lot of civil-war like conflict internally. (Do remember that the initiator and creator of Hamas was none other than the Israeli government itself, to counter the then-terrorist Fatah).

Anyways their years of internal tensions and conflicts politically has inevitably spread to the minority Palestinian Christian population now facing some sort of religiously extremist violence and oppression. To point out that the Christian community alone though is wrong. I find it unfair to highlight the Christian minority as being a victim, while conveniently forgetting all the Muslim families who were also innocent victims due to the extremely unsafe, unstable and un-secure conditions of life in Palestine, especially Gaza. The violence and oppression has claimed many victims just based on their loyalties to the different Palestinian parties.

Here's BBC's article on Christmas in Gaza (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7154134.stm).

Alien
December 25, 2007, 02:49 AM
Ganguly da, if you hate Muslims and want to express it then why not start a thread "I hate Muslims and I don't like your lots"? All these bullcrap threads you are starting about Muslims abusing the minority hindus, christians aren't very effective way to get your hatred filled messages across.

If you got the balls, say it. Else keep it to yourself rather than making your point covertly. From "Honour Killing" to "Christians in Palestine". Interesting transition. Hard to understand your fondness to thread muddy waters.

PS: A bit off topic, [...].

shaad
December 27, 2007, 09:18 AM
Not to be snarky, but one could just as easily be concerned about minorities in India during Christmas.

See, for instance, this recent news report (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071226/ap_on_re_as/india_churches_attacked):

Hindus attack churches on Christmas

NEW DELHI - Hindu extremists ransacked and burned eight rural churches in eastern India, marring Christmas celebrations in a corner of the country with a history of violence against Christians, officials said Wednesday. One person was killed in the violence... (link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071226/ap_on_re_as/india_churches_attacked))

Frankly, I think we should all focus on keeping our own house in order, rather than try to indulge in what often seems like faith-based one-upmanship under a thin veneer of secular interest or caring (speaking as a dyed-in-the-wool secularist myself).

One World
December 27, 2007, 09:44 AM
Apples are apples and oranges are oranges! Not knowing the truth does not make it any less truer.

Beamer
December 27, 2007, 01:40 PM
This guy, the thread opener, likes to think of himself as a smart fellow. But, little he knows, that we know, what truely lies under his surface. Its a testament to BC posters that most are ignoring the 'contents' of his posts and threads. Snake in the grass!

al Furqaan
December 27, 2007, 06:28 PM
This guy, the thread opener, likes to think of himself as a smart fellow. But, little he knows, that we know, what truely lies under his surface. Its a testament to BC posters that most are ignoring the 'contents' of his posts and threads. Snake in the grass!

yea you might as well respond to a thread that claims muslims worship a black stone housed at ceaser's place.

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 12:10 PM
see u cant even express urself here otherwise u get bullied.....ganguly da has opinions just like everybody else.....sometimes he can come out as a hypocrite..but when popular people like kabir, beamer says anything then thats acceptable but no not ordinary members like ganguly da

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 12:11 PM
beamer mesages should be treated as a [edited]

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 12:15 PM
i hate islam extremists as well....they think they are following islam but they only bring in hatred....they ruin this beautiful religion with their extreme beliefs.....as a muslim i am sayin this so i should be treated the same as gangula da.....

al Furqaan
December 28, 2007, 01:11 PM
see u cant even express urself here otherwise u get bullied.....ganguly da has opinions just like everybody else.....sometimes he can come out as a hypocrite..but when popular people like kabir, beamer says anything then thats acceptable but no not ordinary members like ganguly da

dear parisa,

Beamer can say what he says because he is CORRECT. there is no purpose for posting an article about palestine in a critical tone on a predomoninantly "muslim" forum. had this been posted at ICF (indian forum) it would be perfectly understandable and we wouldn't get our panties in a bunch. how they handle their forum is their business, and how we handle ours is ours.

remember my thread on the state of gujurati muslims? had i posted that on an indian forum, it would be considered baiting. however, it was posted here for the purposes of solidarity with the downtrodden guju muslim community in their time of hardship. if posted on a majority indian forum its purpose would be to provocative bait response while simaltaneously critizing the majority.

ganguly da has, repeatedly i might add, posted such threads here at BC.

and btw, Beamer is no islamic extremist. extremist don't spend hours following cricket matches.

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 01:13 PM
no i didn't call anyone here an extremist..i meant in geenral terms...but i was just wondering why ganguly da always get picked on for expressin his opinions...just because his opinions are different he gets picked on.....well it looks like i'm heading towards the same direction.

Rumz_01
December 28, 2007, 01:20 PM
If members here cannot talk about religion in a sensible mature manner, without getting 'offended' can we not jus stay clear of the topic!

Bengaliprince176
December 28, 2007, 01:40 PM
If members here cannot talk about religion in a sensible mature manner, without getting 'offended' can we not jus stay clear of the topic!

good point Rumana, i think some members should try what i do, before losing temper, just think about the friends (we all have them!! lol) who are Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Sikh etc and think if they were viewing this comment what wud they think about their friend. and also, i have a Muslim friend, (this is for an example) and this Muslim is annoying me, yet i am smart enuf to know, that beocz of my Muslim friend, most Muslims are not like this, and lets face it, i know most posters here, as most of them live in Western Countries have many friends of many religions. so we need to chill out, the new year is starting, and many cricket matches will be coming soon!!

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 01:42 PM
rumz's real name is rumana? thats my aunt's name too!

Rumz_01
December 28, 2007, 01:44 PM
Well rounded up BengaliPrince!!!!

i think members need to think before they post

Moshin
December 28, 2007, 02:03 PM
Christians arent really metioned in the region, its sort of a like a Arab vs. Jew
battle that is going on with Hamas and Israel, Christians are like sided away
because of the number of them but there are a lot in Bethleham, that's all I know.

rubel_18
December 28, 2007, 02:03 PM
Well rounded up BengaliPrince!!!!

i think members need to think before they post

I rly the like the responses from both Bengaliprince and Rumz because it is tru and wat they sed is rite. It seems like 2 of the most youngest members on the forum are the most matured, sad that I cant say the same for certain other members.

Moshin
December 28, 2007, 02:09 PM
I dont think Ganguly Da is trying to attack us Muslims, he is just creating threads for all of us to notice and be aware of what kind of cruel world we live in, where all religions cannot live in harmony because of religion, where people have no rights for thier living because of religon, where people are attacked because of thier relgion. In this thread it is concerned on the Christians where they dont have any rights in Palestine, he's just trying to get views from us.

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 02:20 PM
sometimes no matter how calm a person might be before they post a msessage or how hard they try to present their message in a respectful way....somewhere down the line it gets blown up....so not always thinkin before sending a post works....

al Furqaan
December 28, 2007, 04:46 PM
no i didn't call anyone here an extremist..i meant in geenral terms...but i was just wondering why ganguly da always get picked on for expressin his opinions...just because his opinions are different he gets picked on.....well it looks like i'm heading towards the same direction.

he's not being "picked on" unless you define "picked on" as "engaging someone into discussion/debate" or "refuting their claims".

besides, i am sure ganguly da enjoys the attention he is getting. i would if i were him.

shaoun
December 28, 2007, 04:46 PM
this palestine and israel conflict is the cause of conflicts between islamic radicals and west. i dont support these radical groups but sometimes its sad to see whats going on with the muslim world. murder is murder doesnt matter if its christian jews hindu or muslims. its wrong in islam and all other religion. i dont know whats going on with the christians in palestine but i do know what israel doing to muslims in palestine. this palestine and israel conflict must be solved and solved soon, because this conflict is the reason why radicals are growing stronger. its sad that we have no unity among muslims. if muslims nations would be united then no one would be able to bully muslims around.

RazabQ
December 28, 2007, 07:15 PM
As myself:
Parisa, go read Shaad's post. Then ask yourself how many posts has Ganguly Da opened on "plight of Muslims in India" or "plight of low caste people in India". No body's questioning his right to open threads - witness, his thread is still open and hasn't been shut down or anything. Many of us discerning, and perhaps a tad older BC members, however, have noticed a pattern in his post openings and let's just say it ain't a general concern for _all_ of humanity.

As mod:
Everyone, leave the name-calling at home. If you have an issue with a post, respond to the message and not the poster.

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 07:21 PM
well razabQ everyone has opinions....ganguly da has strong opinions about islam.it may hurt people here since most people are muslims but then again it is still ganguly's opinions.what im tryin to say is that people should stop pickin on him for his opinions...give him a chance to show all sides of his personality...not just his religious beliefs.

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 07:26 PM
he's not being "picked on" unless you define "picked on" as "engaging someone into discussion/debate" or "refuting their claims".

besides, i am sure ganguly da enjoys the attention he is getting. i would if i were him.

well whenever i check out ganguly's posts i always see someone replying back to his posts rudely.....and i saw the pattern....like everytime he says something people have to mock him about his previous posts...that to me is pickin on someone....

Moshin
December 28, 2007, 07:31 PM
well whenever i check out ganguly's posts i always see someone replying back to his posts rudely.....and i saw the pattern....like everytime he says something people have to mock him about his previous posts...that to me is pickin on someone....
well that probably shows the history of Ganguly Da dont it, he probably has gone really far by looking at the previous posts given by others/:)

Murad
December 28, 2007, 07:34 PM
Parisa,
you are new here. So you don't know about many things that happened here and still happening.

I think you should check the threads/posts he made before you became a BC member. Then you will get the true message. :)

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 07:37 PM
Parisa,
you are new here. So you don't know about many things that happened here and still happening.

I think you should check the threads/posts he made before you became a BC member. Then you will get the true message. :)

he talked a lot about islamists right? dissed islamists? showed anger towards islamists for whatever they did to hindus? i saw that much. and what i saw were his opinions.i could probably say the same as him.its just opinions.the only reason why u guys don't like him is because his opinions are different from u all.

Moshin
December 28, 2007, 07:41 PM
well i looked through his threads, a one called 'honour killing' which is based
about muslim honour killings, which shows me a negative picture in a way
by adding to other individuals in this thread.

Moshin
December 28, 2007, 07:44 PM
<TABLE class=tborder id=post573615 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=5 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2>http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/image.php?u=4116&dateline=1198025990 (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/member.php?u=4116)</TD><TD noWrap>Ganguly da (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/member.php?u=4116) <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: postbit_onlinestatus -->http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/images/bc-green/statusicon/user_offline.gif <!-- END TEMPLATE: postbit_onlinestatus --><SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_573615", true); </SCRIPT>
ODI Cricketer


</TD><TD width=320></TD><TD vAlign=top width=200>Join Date: March 18, 2007
Location: Austin,TX/ Kolkata,IND
Favorite Player: Sourav Ganguly
Posts: 908




</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- / user info --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_573615><!-- message, attachments, sig --><!-- icon and title -->http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/images/icons/icon1.gif Honor Killing?
<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Does this qualify as honor killing?

A 16 yr old canadian pakistani girl strangled to death by her own father for not wearing headscarf and not following tradition muslim custom.

All over the news

link: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

By reading this he has something against Muslims I think? I dont know?

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 07:44 PM
its his opinions.....yes he has anger for islamists.....i'm sure he has a reason for that....people cant pick on him for that reason just becuase his opinions clash with most people's in here....and the moderators are just so unfair sometimes....that is the only problem i encountered here.....they let members get away makin sexual comments but they cant take stron opinions.....

Murad
December 28, 2007, 07:47 PM
Parisa, Read post number 13 made by Al Furqan bhai again. If you don't get his message then you will never get it.

Moshin
December 28, 2007, 07:49 PM
Parisa, Read post number 13 made by Al Furqan bhai again. If you don't get his message then you will never get it.
Yep Parisa you have understand what he has said you know.

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 07:55 PM
oh i read that ages ago....i'm currently a member of indiancricket and i chat all the wrong things in there...for example i talk endlessly about bangladesh....this will ofcourse get on people's nerves in there....but i just wanted to promote my country...i know its silly and selfish but i just joined that website for fun....so if this is the reason why ganguly joined bc then i completely understand him....

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 07:58 PM
by the way i don't wanna read any posts of beamer or any messages that shows appreciation for him.....thats why i didn't reply back to that furquaan's message

Moshin
December 28, 2007, 08:00 PM
by the way i don't wanna read any posts of beamer or any messages that shows appreciation for him.....thats why i didn't reply back to that furquaan's message
why, whats wrong with beamer, he corrects me everytime:-/

Murad
December 28, 2007, 08:02 PM
Talk something stupid about hiduism in that forum, then you will get a lot of mishti polao from them. Talking about country and talking about religion are two different things. Nobody(except the ones who don't follow any religion) can bears to hear anything stupid about their religion.

Anyways.. I don't wanna get into any trouble. If I say something, you will say something, and it will be going on till the thread closes.

Parisa
December 28, 2007, 08:03 PM
why, whats wrong with beamer, he corrects me everytime:-/

[edit - you know why! Mod]
Parisa begs to differ with you Mohsin - Mod

tonoy
December 28, 2007, 08:20 PM
ha ha busted. thank you razabq.

al Furqaan
December 28, 2007, 08:45 PM
i think someone is gonna get banned for a week soon.

Moshin
December 28, 2007, 08:50 PM
[edit - you know why! Mod]
Parisa begs to differ with you Moshin - Mod
can someone tell me what the message was, i missed it all!

al Furqaan
December 28, 2007, 08:51 PM
by the way i don't wanna read any posts of beamer or any messages that shows appreciation for him.....thats why i didn't reply back to that furquaan's message

how old are you? you sound like a little twelve year old...either prove ganguly correct or stop moaning.

if you don't like our opinions on ganguly, then the solution is simple: ask him to adopt the correct opinions vis a vis whatever he is posting. and then follow suit yourself.

tonoy
December 28, 2007, 10:06 PM
how old are you? you sound like a little twelve year old...either prove ganguly correct or stop moaning.

if you don't like our opinions on ganguly, then the solution is simple: ask him to adopt the correct opinions vis a vis whatever he is posting. and then follow suit yourself.

amen brother amen.

Ganguly da
December 29, 2007, 01:02 AM
Not to be snarky, but one could just as easily be concerned about minorities in India during Christmas.

See, for instance, this recent news report (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071226/ap_on_re_as/india_churches_attacked):

Hindus attack churches on Christmas

NEW DELHI - Hindu extremists ransacked and burned eight rural churches in eastern India, marring Christmas celebrations in a corner of the country with a history of violence against Christians, officials said Wednesday. One person was killed in the violence... (link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071226/ap_on_re_as/india_churches_attacked))

Frankly, I think we should all focus on keeping our own house in order, rather than try to indulge in what often seems like faith-based one-upmanship under a thin veneer of secular interest or caring (speaking as a dyed-in-the-wool secularist myself).


That's horrible....those hindu extremists should be jailed for a long long time....no one has the right to kill someone else unless being provoked. Give respect to personal rights and all the freedom unless someone is insulting you back.

it's quite funny, that instead of discussing on the reality of palestinian minorities and their outcome, the focus has been put on thread maker for bringing this out.... it's as if posting a fact is a crime here and no one wants to recognize what's going on, just coz it has to do with their religion and they get offended as if I have thrown mud at the origin of Islam. No one can ever stop the extremists in any religion unless the change comes from WITHIN....and with this kind of mindset, the change will never come, because people will always be critical and take offense.

The target here is islamic extremism not bangladesh or islam or bangladeshi people. It's just like in that other thread where people are blaming Benazir for all the deaths and not extremists itself....shocking.

Electrequiem
December 29, 2007, 01:06 AM
That's horrible....those hindu extremists should be jailed for a long long time....no one has the right to kill someone else unless being provoked.

it's quite funny, that instead of discussing on the reality of palestinian minorities and their outcome, the focus has been put on thread maker for bringing this out.... it's as if posting a fact is a crime here and no one wants to recognize what's going on, just coz it has to do with their religion and they get offended as if I have thrown mud at the origin of Islam. No one can ever stop the extremists in any religion unless the change comes from WITHIN....and with this kind of mindset, the change will never come, because people will always be critical and take offense.

The target here is islamic extremism not bangladesh or islam or bangladeshi people. It's just like in that other thread where people are blaming Benazir for all the deaths and not extremists itself....shocking.

Well, you just seem to have a penchant for such "religious changes from within" topics ONLY when it is sullying Islam. How come you never created a thread for the link about Hindu's attacking the churches?

Alien
December 29, 2007, 06:22 AM
To Parisa:

With Ganguly da's right to express himself comes our right to criticise that views. Within the rules ofcourse.