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sadi
December 28, 2007, 12:35 PM
Ashraful’s promotion at number three
I believe it is a good spot for him to bat. The best player should bat at number three in my opinion. He put his hand up. It might not be a permanent thing but it is a good option for us in the one-day game especially if we can get him early during the powerplay and make use of those overs. He’s probably our best chance of exposing the bowling team during those powerplay overs.

Tigercricket (http://tigercricket.com/viewNews.aspx?newsID=482)

Lets hear how our BC members feel about this. I can see the logic behind the promotion and agree the best batsman of a team should always come at number 3.

Beamer
December 28, 2007, 12:42 PM
I don't mind. But, he cannot come later than no.4, something he was doing during the Whatmore era, or was forced do. Heck, he was even batting at no.7 during WC! I think, he is more responsible now and no.3 should be a natural fit and Aftab had to be removed for his own sake, who can also provide additional power coming at no.5 or no.6. So, no problems with that. It also depends on how he feels coming at no.3. I have a feeling he prefers no.4, specially in tests...

Tigers_eye
December 28, 2007, 12:44 PM
if he feels comfortable then all power to him. Who are we to disagree with the captain? It is his team afterall.

Eshen
December 28, 2007, 12:50 PM
I don't like the idea of using Ash as a pinch hitter. But if Ashraful thinks he can play a more sensible role from this position, so be it.

oshustho_mogoj
December 28, 2007, 12:50 PM
i think Sakib ke team e nile oke no 3 te deuaaii best n Ash at 4 then Tusher/Mehrab n then Aftab

sadi
December 28, 2007, 12:51 PM
Well it may take some time but once he get used to it, I feel Ash coming at number 3 will serve him and Bangladesh team better. I already feel some positive energy.

sadi
December 28, 2007, 12:54 PM
I don't like the idea of using Ash as a pinch hitter. But if Ashraful thinks he can play a more sensible role from this position, so be it.

I know what you mean. No matter where he comes in, his joro innings will hardly serve the purpose. I am sure he already get that he needs to play a reasonably long innings in order for Bangladesh to have any chance in a game.

Eshen
December 28, 2007, 12:57 PM
Well it may take some time but once he get used to it, I feel Ash coming at number 3 will serve him and Bangladesh team better. I already feel some positive energy.
I hope you are right. All I can say at this point that it did not turn out right in the last match - Ash got out early (not his fault) and then Aftab started to act like "what the heck I am supposed to do now ?".

al Furqaan
December 28, 2007, 01:04 PM
sadi's right. i feel the postitive vibes as well.

tho i think ash is more suited to playing number 4. remember tendulkar is india's best batsman, perhaps the world's best ever. and he came in at 4 in tests (and also often in ODIs).

but aftab needs something to teach him to play a longer innings. maybe a demotion down the order will help with that as it has with ash.

BanCricFan
December 28, 2007, 01:06 PM
He came at 3 yesterday and that was perfect according to the match situation. The openers gave us a solid start and the momentum needed to be continued. No surprise there that Ash walked in at 3, especially, after his last innings. Aftab would have been okay too but Ash is the in-form bat.

I still think Aftab should bat at 3 as he likes pace and thrives on ball comming on to bat. His play against spin is quite ordinary and will struggle in the middle overs. If he can stop getting carried away with his lofted shots then he remains the perfect number three for BD. One has to take power play into consideration too.

Eshen
December 28, 2007, 01:41 PM
For me, this move brings back all the bad memories of failed experiments done during Whatmore era (Ash unfortunately was the victim of many of those experiments). I hope Siddons knows better what he is doing. I also hope Ash took this position because he wanted to, not that he felt coerced to take it because Aftab was not meeting the expectation.

BD-Shardul
December 28, 2007, 01:50 PM
Aftab is the best ever number three batsman for Bangladesh. Ash is ideal for number 5.

Rifat
December 28, 2007, 01:56 PM
Aftab is the best ever number three batsman for Bangladesh. Ash is ideal for number 5.

i completely agree. i prefer seeing Mushfiqur Rahim at three, and Ashraful #5.

AsifTheManRahman
December 28, 2007, 02:01 PM
Where Aftab Ahmed would bat now that he has come up to number three
Depending on the match situation he may bat at any number from four to six.

Better. I like.

As for Ashraful, coach knows best.

zainab
December 28, 2007, 03:10 PM
I feel that Ash is best at No 4 position. Aftab can come in at N0 3 as usual, as he is not great agaist Spin, but Ash is good against pace and spin.
I hope he is not forced to bat at No3. cause he has been batting for a while now at NO 4. and he has gottem used to it.

Anyhow, let's see what happens in the third ODI

Hatebreed
December 28, 2007, 03:16 PM
I personally feel Ash is best suited at no. 4. His ability may allow him to adjust or help the team more by coming to bat more early, but he should come as the captain first, to consolidate on the blitzing start that should be expected from the top 3 batsmen, and also bridge the gap between top and middle order. The longer that Ash stays at the crease is better for us, especially at the middle overs. Aftab is not the batsman to do that, he is better suited at no. 3 or much later at no. 6.

BanCricFan
December 28, 2007, 03:29 PM
I don't like the idea of using Ash as a pinch hitter.

Batting at number 3 doesn't make one a pinch hitter. I dont think Mr. Ponting will be very flattered if he was termed as a pinch hitter. :)

BanCricFan
December 28, 2007, 03:33 PM
i completely agree. i prefer seeing Mushfiqur Rahim at three, and Ashraful #5.

If this is true then why do you want Mushi at 3?? :D

sadi
December 28, 2007, 03:56 PM
Batting at number 3 doesn't make one a pinch hitter. I dont think Mr. Ponting will be very flattered if he was termed as a pinch hitter. :)

Well I guess that comment came because of the coach mentioning powerplay and how Ash can take advantage of that coming at number 3.

tonoy
December 28, 2007, 04:13 PM
to be honest none of the bd batsmen are currently suited for the number 3 position. Before we had bashar until he lost his form.

BanCricFan
December 28, 2007, 04:15 PM
Well I guess that comment came because of the coach mentioning powerplay and how Ash can take advantage of that coming at number 3.

Well, if Mr. Ponting can do it, so will Mr. Matin!

BTW, the point to note, JS said that its not a permenant move.

Murad
December 28, 2007, 04:38 PM
If Ash thinks he could do perform well at no.3 then its fine. But I personally think he is better at no.4. He has good average at no.4 & no.5

Aaron
December 28, 2007, 05:10 PM
Tigercricket (http://tigercricket.com/viewNews.aspx?newsID=482)

Lets hear how our BC members feel about this. I can see the logic behind the promotion and agree the best batsman of a team should always come at number 3.

I strongly agree with you. The players should play for long. Ash and Aftab should be 3 and 4.

KnightBD
December 28, 2007, 05:18 PM
First of all, I think Sidon is right that better batsman should play in higher order (except openers?!). Ash can be at #3, but his record is not that great in that position (no 50s in 14 innings, hs 44). But his record at #4 is far better (1 100, 5 50s in 25 innings).
So I think for ODI, its better to let Aftab bat at #3, to take advantage of power play. For test, however, Ash can be in #3.

Gowza
December 28, 2007, 06:02 PM
the best player should bat at 3 but it just so happens that BDs best player doesn't like that position and doesn't play well there. kind of the same with south africa, kallis should be the 1st pick for the #3 slot but he's better batting at 4 and so that's where he bats. the reason the #3 spot is perfect for the best batsman is because the ball usually isn't moving around quite as much by the time they come in plus they have a lot of innings to play how they wish to and that means they have a better chance of making a big score. but if they're just going to go in there to try and hit boundaries then it's kind of pointless and wreaks havoc on the teams situation in the match.

if i was to compare BD to the aussie team. ashraful is like australia's ponting, the most valuable, the most talented etc and therefore the most important player to his team (at least when batting). the way ashraful plays however is that of a gilchrist, someone who has done very well for himself but when it comes down to it gives his wicket away quite easily and often at the wrong time.

we should want ashraful to turn out like a ponting and not a gilchrist for the simple fact that it will improve BD cricket as a whole. playing like gilchrist will win matches on occassion, playing like ponting will win matches much more regularly.

ashraful is still young so has time to develop into a good #3 but atm he's better at 4, it's up to team management to decide whether they think it's worth sacrificing current performance to groom his as #3 now to see the results in a few years or whether that sacrifice isn't worth the risk (in the case that ashraful doesn't develop into a good #3).

rashed_va
December 28, 2007, 06:53 PM
ashraful is still young so has time to develop into a good #3 but atm he's better at 4, it's up to team management to decide whether they think it's worth sacrificing current performance to groom his as #3 now to see the results in a few years or whether that sacrifice isn't worth the risk (in the case that ashraful doesn't develop into a good #3).

I agree. I think he tried to play defensive yesterday and it didnt work. He just needs to be himself. #3 is too risky. Aftab is a better choice. On a different note, a lot of the kiwis who came to watch the game yesterday , came to watch Ash. They left after he got out. Losing him so early weakened our team and lost any attraction that it had. The NZ bowlers became evenmore confident - their fielding effort doubled. I think Aftab should come in at #3 and play defensively like yesterday and then pair up with Ash to blast. The only thing is that Ash will miss out the powerplay ...

Zobair
December 28, 2007, 07:42 PM
The best player should bat at number 3. The way I see it Siddons has come out and made it clear to Ash that he is the best player and the captain and that he needs to stand up and take responsibility. It is no longer good enough for him to come out and hit a quick -fire/audacious 60-70 every 5th-10th game. He needs to come in early and do his best to see his team through and hopefully lead by example. I like it. I like it a lot!

Miraz
December 28, 2007, 08:16 PM
It's a logical move, but I am a bit skeptical about the decision.

Ash didn't do well on previous occasions as a number 3 batsman, and he was not very willing to promote himself up in the batting order.

I hope he will take it as a positive move and will respond in style.

Murad
December 28, 2007, 08:22 PM
I'm afraid of this move. It could be a positive move. But I'm afraid of Ashraful. He just started to be a bit consistent and now. What it he does so bad in no.3 position? He should have been at 4. Thats his place.

BD Tigers
December 28, 2007, 09:44 PM
I like the decision. best batsman shud play at no. 3.

Foozy
December 28, 2007, 09:52 PM
I'm afraid of this move. It could be a positive move. But I'm afraid of Ashraful. He just started to be a bit consistent and now. What it he does so bad in no.3 position? He should have been at 4. Thats his place.

True, and I agree with you. At the moment ash seems to be going good at number 4. And the person who should be at number 3 is Mushfiq. He is seriously a sad case at the moment, not even performing well because by the time he gets in more than half the people are already out, and the pressure is very much on him! Number 3 would be perfect for him.
Aftab on the other hand either needs to be very much down the order, or even out of the team until he proves that he can score big and not waste a spot at number 3. He just seems to be a liability for the team. He just comes, scores a few fours or sixes and leaves, adding extra pressure for the next batsman. Its simply pathetic!
Hope JS and Ash are making the rite moves.

Sohel
December 29, 2007, 12:07 AM
the best player should bat at 3 but it just so happens that BDs best player doesn't like that position and doesn't play well there. kind of the same with south africa, kallis should be the 1st pick for the #3 slot but he's better batting at 4 and so that's where he bats. the reason the #3 spot is perfect for the best batsman is because the ball usually isn't moving around quite as much by the time they come in plus they have a lot of innings to play how they wish to and that means they have a better chance of making a big score. but if they're just going to go in there to try and hit boundaries then it's kind of pointless and wreaks havoc on the teams situation in the match.

if i was to compare BD to the aussie team. ashraful is like australia's ponting, the most valuable, the most talented etc and therefore the most important player to his team (at least when batting). the way ashraful plays however is that of a gilchrist, someone who has done very well for himself but when it comes down to it gives his wicket away quite easily and often at the wrong time.

we should want ashraful to turn out like a ponting and not a gilchrist for the simple fact that it will improve BD cricket as a whole. playing like gilchrist will win matches on occassion, playing like ponting will win matches much more regularly.

ashraful is still young so has time to develop into a good #3 but atm he's better at 4, it's up to team management to decide whether they think it's worth sacrificing current performance to groom his as #3 now to see the results in a few years or whether that sacrifice isn't worth the risk (in the case that ashraful doesn't develop into a good #3).

Perfectly put, especially the underlined sentences ... :)

Beamer
December 29, 2007, 12:35 AM
Well, both groups have their strong points. There is a camp who thinks, as the best batsman, he should come at no.3, so he can face maximum amount of overs. And the other camp wants him at no.4, so the players ahead of him can play freely knowing the best batsman will follow. So, Its a difficult choice. Thats where we have to ask what he is most comfortable with. I think he prefers no.4, but, for the sake of the team, he has decided to respond to coaches call. That's leadership as well and not to forget, Whatmore used him in every position and he did it without causing any fuss.

He is the only batsman in our team who is blessed with such sheer talent that he can bat anywhere in the line. He can cause havoc during powerplays and at the same time, can be quite adept at finding gaps, by improvising with a spread field in place during non-power plays. Its all with his shot selection IMO. Thats where he fails. Its not often you will see a batsman who can hit one particular ball in a multitude of ways! So, his decision making has to be fast and during that process, he losses the plot often. But, when he decides to knuckle down, play it simple, and avoid some specific shots, or cut down his own choice of shots, it might take a special delivery to get him. For example : last test vs SL during the unbeaten century, he never tried his hooks or pulls, despite being set up, and stuck to shots in the V, along the ground, that raced to the boundary. He is his own enemy my friends. Discipline is the key for long innings. With his caliber, he will not know where the runs are coming from. Kid is that good.

Beamer
December 29, 2007, 12:39 AM
I don't like the idea of using Ash as a pinch hitter. But if Ashraful thinks he can play a more sensible role from this position, so be it.

Thats the thing. If he thinks the promotion is only meant for pinch hitting , then he will go Aftab's way. But, I hope, he knows better than that. If he stays beyond the initial PP's, you know they will delay the later PP's, only to see Aftab, but later in the innings.

Pundit
December 29, 2007, 12:40 AM
Ashraful...definitely at no. 4

This would not have been a point of debate if our no 3 was working.

Maybe we get Aftab to contain himself, or break the jaws of Mushfiq during practice so that it does not happen during the game and at no 3.

But Mushfiq playing at no 3 besides Zims, India or perhaps the WI might not work out well.

I don't think we solve no 3 by sacrificing the gerat option we have for at no 4, and that is Ashraful.

If JS can work some magic potion up for Ash over the next year...than only can he be eased into no 3.

Final words...for BD, we do not need a superstar at no 3....we just need someone good enough, who performs reasonably well enough to let our star at no 4 shine even so much more brighter.

bdbazar_com
December 29, 2007, 02:30 AM
I cant agree with aussies all the time, I remember when inzi used to come at 5 or 6, aussie commentator used to say he should bat higher but I remember inzi wanted to finish the match and he did win many matches. we are not aussies and we need to play cricket our way.
Ash might not be a bad option, aftab is not reliable at 3 at all.
Shahed

zainab
December 29, 2007, 04:59 PM
Have a bad feeling with Ash at NO3. According to his planetary alignments, his best position is 4 or 5.

israr
December 29, 2007, 05:22 PM
I don't think it'll be a problem, and I guess Ashraful knows his role very well and his responsibility as a captain. You see, it doesn't really make a big difference when you loose quick two wickets or your openers in quick succession, becuase in that kind of a scenario, the situation of a batsman would be the same if he's coming at no.3 or no.4 position. Previously, when we had a fragile top-order or didn't get a good start, Ashraful had to come in the earlier overs of the game, but now, since our openers are performing quite well enough(hopefully they'll be consistent enough), Ashraful batting at one down won't have any effect on him. In the second ODI, Ashraful arrived at the crease in the 13th over when the score read 63-1, but lets look at this in a different way, we could've also been 20-2 in the 6th or 7th over. If he had come in at no.4 in the latter's case, we would have no complaints, but we start worrying about Ashraful coming as one down in the 13th over with the score 63-1. This is where it's very deceiving. I agree Ashraful is better at 4, but I think he's fulfils all the requirements to be a no.3 batsman as well. Rather than thinking about the technical issues about the no.3 slot, I suggest Ashraful to have a change in his thinking and a 'paradigm shift' relating to this no.3 position. Once he overcomes that, he'll find himself comfortable as the third batsman.
In addition, I feel Sakib at 4, followed by Aftab and Mushfiq at either 5 or 6 would be more ideal, and replace Tushar would Sajidul. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/<o:p></o:p>
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bdchamp20
December 29, 2007, 06:51 PM
Mushfiq would be best at no. 3, Ash should come in at 4/5

al Furqaan
December 29, 2007, 07:59 PM
Thats the thing. If he thinks the promotion is only meant for pinch hitting , then he will go Aftab's way. But, I hope, he knows better than that. If he stays beyond the initial PP's, you know they will delay the later PP's, only to see Aftab, but later in the innings.

i also think we need to split ash and aftab up. a year ago, the management put ash in at 7, and i supported it. this was because he was having a torrid time with the bat. he needed the "mental slap in the face" of being dropped from zimbabwe series and being demoted to #7. this also allowed him to get some time in the middle, remain not out, and boost his average and more importantly his confidence.

ashraful is one of those rare batsmen who was physically and cricket-wise ready for international cricket at the tender age of 16. all he needed was he mental aspect, and he's been slow getting there, but it seems he's finally well on his way. same thing with tendulkar. he didn't start cracking century after century until he was 5-6 years into his career. if you look at ashraful he's hit centuries in both forms of the game earlier than tendulkar has (1st Test, and 50th ODI). but he has taken longer to achieve the mental maturity and dominance.

ashraful needs to bat a long time for us to be successful. therefore its good for him to bat at number 3 so long as he is comfortable with it. in tests, the rigors are much higher, and so he should bat at 4 position.

now a little bit about aftab. aftab is along with ash and mushy, the most technically sound batsman we have. and his talent is second only to ashraful's. aftab needs the same kind of psychological catalyst to get his mojo working properly. i think he needs to be put at the number 6 spot as beamer suggests.

this gives a power finisher and the ability to rack up 70 runs minimum in the slog overs. and if we collapse early, then he will consolidate as he did the other day. at any rate, no matter how it happens, we have to "teach" aftab how to play as we have taught and are still teaching ashraful.

players like aftab and ashraful will not come around every generation, not in bangladesh, not anywhere else either. we must see to it, that they are exploited to the maximum ability otherwise we might as well give up our Test and ODI status right now.

layperson
December 29, 2007, 08:14 PM
Aftab is perfect for the number 3 position and so is Ashraful for number 4. Aftab is relatively weaker against spinners and his power batting is more useful against the harder newer ball when he comes in at 3. There should not be any hard and fast rule that the best batsman in the team has to come at number 3. Sakib is a much better option coming in at number 5 since he can deal with the spinners and the softer ball better than aftab. Number 6 can be for a hard hitting batsmen or an allrounder who can hit a long way. In conclusion ashraful at number 3 is not a good idea. If the logic is that we should give our best batsman the max balls to play then we should send in ashraful at number 1 not three. Case closed.

sadi
December 29, 2007, 10:37 PM
Not a bad argument there Shahriyar.

scoilaheez
December 30, 2007, 02:16 AM
my preference is Aftab at 3 and Ash at 4

Imtiazk
December 30, 2007, 03:04 AM
If the logic is that we should give our best batsman the max balls to play then we should send in ashraful at number 1 not three. Case closed.

Why not ? Tendulkar used to open for many years until "age" began to catch up. If Ashraful is going to bat like the way he does, with the full sanction of the team management it seems, then why not ?

My only reservation is that Tamim and Junaid are doing quite well. So let's keep it that way. Ash comes in at No.3 .

There was nothing wrong with Aftab coming at No. 3. Only problem being the "Shaitan" on his left shoulder appears to have a lot of say. Outside the powerplays, he may bat more sensibly, like against South Africa in the World Cup. Also, he would not be a bad guy to have around by the time the 35th over approaches. If he stays till the 40th over , assuming the team is still batting, of course, he could give the opposition an almighty hammering !

WarWolf
December 30, 2007, 06:33 AM
Aftab normally plays well when the ball gets a lil bit older. New ball and a lil bit of swing gets him in trouble. I prefer him to come at no 6.

zainab
December 30, 2007, 06:52 AM
In the 2005 Aussie Match Aftab came in a bit late, hammered a 6 which practically gave BD the match. I think that Ash was No4, Tushar was No 3, and Bashar was no 5.

lamisa
December 30, 2007, 07:14 AM
i thnk ash shud remain in no#4,as no-3 is 2 early 4 him,hez a sloggr aftrall.aftab shud come in @ no-6 nd mushy @ 3 coz mushy is still yung nd da pressure dat he has 2 face @ no 6 probably demotes his confidence.