PDA

View Full Version : Is Jamie Siddons killing Aftab?


betaar
January 7, 2008, 12:17 PM
A lot of positives have been floating around on Jamie Siddons and they are mostly true and deserving of a man who was brave enough to take the most challenging job. He is definitely a good coach with the right frame of mind at the stage BD cricket is in right now, he is also a good batsman who knows the importance of occupying the crease for the long haul, but my question is, is he killing Aftab? I know it may be too early to discuss this but for the sake of prediction lets take a crack at it.

Here, I am not going to discuss Aftab's test batting because I don’t think he’s ready for it or even has the proper temperament. But looking at his one day scorecard in this NZ series one cannot help but wonder, what's going on. He scored 8 runs in 11 balls in the first match and then a very patient 54 in 78 balls on a loosing battle and another uncomfortable 19 runs on the 3<SUP>rd</SUP> match, but, apart from the first match where his usual fluent self was on display, the manner in which he batted in the latter matches, it is heartening to see that one of the most stroke full players of Bangladesh was loosing his way. I know we are always on the verge of loosing any match we play, but what happened in the end in those matches were tame end without having to raise hope for even a single over while he was there.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/<o:p></o:p>
I think he is a sort of player who should always be one down and given the license to go and play his shots without giving too much thought of the situation, otherwise he might as well not be included. He is a player who can change the complexion of the game with his dazzling shot making, even if in the end it does not pay off but the positives he brings could motivate the team mates. The status we are in, a little glimmer of hope at any stage of the game could do wonder. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
With all this in mind, one (in this case it’s me) might wonder, is JS asking him to curb his shots so he stays longer in the crease and score a patient 50? If he is and if Aftab can pull it off and go onto making a 100 that would be awesome, but if he cannot then the question is, will he wither away? <o:p></o:p>

fwullah
January 7, 2008, 12:20 PM
How can anyone kill a dead man?

betaar
January 7, 2008, 12:23 PM
How can anyone kill a dead man?

Thanks for being so morbid, you just killed the thread sis. :-D

Miraz
January 7, 2008, 12:28 PM
An international player should be able to grab opportunities which are hard to come by. Compare the performance of Matthew Bell with Aftab, you will get the answer. Who is killing whom!!

sadi
January 7, 2008, 12:29 PM
Aftab will be back. Some players go through a phase in their career when they need to adjust and with JS's proper guidance, he should be back. He is way too talented to get lost from the side. We need to be patient though.

betaar
January 7, 2008, 12:35 PM
An international player should be able to grab opportunities which are hard to come by. Compare the performance of Matthew Bell with Aftab, you will get the answer. Who is killing whom!!

In the context of grabbing opportunity, you could be correct, but when it comes to the role these 2 players play in their respective teams, I am afraid you are not. These are 2 different types of players where one is playing for a team that's well established and chances are hard to come by, where as, the other is trying to find his feet in a team that's still cannot stand on its ground.

zainab
January 7, 2008, 01:00 PM
I honestly feel that there is something going on between Aftab and Siddons. Aftab is a natural ODI player who comes in at NO3 and play his natural game. He is one of the best in the BD side with his fearless batting and great fielding. I think that JS is tinkering with his style too much.

tonoy
January 7, 2008, 01:06 PM
Are we talking about the same aftab, who's talent is second only to the great Mohammed "sachin" Ashraful, who could read any spinners as Paris hilton would read the "Beginning of Time" and who would never dare to produce a grounded drive as that would make him an ordinary player? Ofcourse Jamie Siddons is killing his career, I mean who else can we blame for such a talented player?

Foozy
January 7, 2008, 01:10 PM
To me he just looked like he was uncomfortable the whole time in this series. He never looked like he was there to stay. The 50 he scored was extremely shaky too. It never looked like he was going to get there. I hope the guy finds his shots rite, its the only way. It is not about slow or fast for him, but about shot selection. Knowing when to hit and when not to hit, because as far as ive seen his game, its either about hit every single ball, or dont hit any, just block.

I even remember some of those days when he used to miss two in a row, and me and my friends would bet that the next one he would either hit or get out. And most of the time it was either or the other. (not literally, but you get my point)

Any ways, I do think that JS is directing him correctly, because if he would go for every ball, he would definitely make a big score once in a lifetime which would be beacuse of his talent, but most of the time he would have been a failure. Hope things take a turn now.

Foozy
January 7, 2008, 01:12 PM
Btw tonoy, were you part of the rallly in Danforth after the world cup wins? haha. Just curious...

tonoy
January 7, 2008, 01:17 PM
Btw tonoy, were you part of the rallly in Danforth after the world cup wins? haha. Just curious...

There was a rally? Aww, I missed it. Were you in it?

Tigers_eye
January 7, 2008, 01:46 PM
What is a coach's job?
Assign duties to the players. Now if he hadn't already done that then yes he is to be blamed. But I think he has done that already.

What is a player's job?
To do the roll that was assigned to him to the best of his ability. If that is being done then doesn't matter what his scoreline is. (like Sree's job is to instigate the Aussies, and he did his job perfectly, Ponting's job is complain and make sure his nemesis is no longer in the line up and he did that perfectly too)

What must Siddons do?
To get that talent (read Tonoy's post) and adjust his role so that maximum output can be achieved. So give him some time and see how revives pet mota Aftab in SA series.

As for killing comment, suicidal can not be blamed on someone else.

Eshen
January 7, 2008, 01:53 PM
No, Aftab is killing himself.

Moshin
January 7, 2008, 02:00 PM
In what certain why is Siddons killing his career? He's just killing himself thats all.. he's confused at the moment, im sure he will be back later hopefully.

Beamer
January 7, 2008, 02:25 PM
Is Jamie Siddons killing Aftab? No. An emphatic no. If anything, he is trying to revive his test career after spending two years in the wilderness.

In the ODI series, specifically the game in question, the labored 54 that he scored, was the type of innings that was needed by any batsmen with half the side already in the dressing room while chasing an untenable score. What was he supposed to do in that situation? Crash, bang and wallop? Had he done that, a lot of us would have come down hard on him . He was moved from no.3, remember?

He was removed from no.3 from ODI's to save him from himself. He is too good of a player to have the mindset of a glorified pinch hitter. He, no doubt, had relative success in that spot, but to me, to get the most out of him, we had to move him from no.3. I would actually urge that promoting him to no.3 in ODI's has done a lot of damage to his batting. The Carte Blanche given to him actually made him forget how to properly bat with responsibility. I say it, because I have seen him bat with patience but with authority when he came into the scene. His debut series against India is one example of that. His test/ODI batting against England in 2004 was another. The tide turned, when he was promoted to no.3 for the first time against Zimbabwe in a ODI at Dhaka, where Rafiq also opened. Those two chased down the 180ish score in 22 overs or something. Unfortunately, he fell in love to much with that style and never re-adjusted his game. Another reason behind his promotion to no.3 was our inability to get any meaningful opening combo that was consistent. Too often, he was called in early duty to smack a few boundaries after the fall of the first wkt, and he duely obliged by going over the top of the infield ( PP field ). That bad habit of going in the air, too often, is still hurting him.

We have a good pair of opener now and hopefully, they will give us solid starts in years to come in both versions of the game. I do not see the necessity of bringing Aftab at no.3 in ODI's. He will serve us better at no.5 or no.6. He can rotate and can add necessary power in the lower middle order, something we are missing right now. In tests, I have seen enough of Bashar at no.3 and will replace him with Aftab, so he can play his natural attacking game ( not one day style air attack ) without thinking too much of stopping a collapse, something he is doing right now coming at no.6. He must improve his play against spinners. I won't put too much stock on the pair that he bagged last game. Let him re-discover his style ( pre Zim game ) and we will be better for it. Jamie Siddons will let him to that.

Nafi
January 7, 2008, 03:03 PM
Are we talking about the same aftab, who's talent is second only to the great Mohammed "sachin" Ashraful, who could read any spinners as Paris hilton would read the "Beginning of Time" and who would never dare to produce a grounded drive as that would make him an ordinary player? Ofcourse Jamie Siddons is killing his career, I mean who else can we blame for such a talented player?

aftab isnt really good against spin

akabir77
January 7, 2008, 03:11 PM
so we let AFTAB fix his problem in the NTL team beamer Bhai? i disagree with that. If there was no better player to replace him i would understand that(lets say if it happen to ash) but he didn't fix his game last time he was dropped (he didn't do that well in NCL).

I agree he should be in the finall 20 so that coach can work on him but letting him play like this match after match will only destroy him and will make a hate fan club like tusher and kapali has. He is much more important for bangladesh than those two.

MohammedC
January 7, 2008, 05:36 PM
What is the point of having classy batsman when we know he is going to give it away after facing only handful of balls. He must learn how to pace his innings

Man I Admire your Depth of Cricket Knowledge...lol

<TABLE bgColor=black><TBODY><TR><TD>ABC
Of
ODI
Cricket


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
A wonderful book to know the importance of Aftab in ODi team.

Dumb thread.

Aftab has got the highest average among Bangladesh top order batsmen barring Sakib.

He is a match winner and that's proven.

why do we demand to drop some one from the team after each series?
can't we wait two three series and then demand some ones head?
if we start dropping people after each series then we will have only the coach and coaching stuff to play cricket.

After reading the title of this thread, I knew I shouldn't waste my time in it. So didn't even bother checking all this time.

Anyway, akabir's post is the only one I read, just coz it's above this box I'm typing my post into. And from what I can see, I agree with him completely. Problem is, we expect every member of the team to perform in every series. Guys, we're not Australia for God's sake.

When I first joined BC Forum about 8 months ago I opened a thread to drop Aftab from Indian series. And got a load of rollocking from top BC poster. I am sorry I have brought this up again could not help it after noticing this thread. I would like to remind some of you he has not changed a bit...well he tried in first innings for 25 balls duck. I do not know what to say about him, because like most of you I understand no one in BD can hit the ball as sweetly like Aftab and thats about it. I hope Aftab learns from his past and present mistakes. I want to see Mr Siddons helps him to become more responsible batsmen for Bangladesh. But I will drop him for next series so he can work on his mistakes

akabir77
January 7, 2008, 05:48 PM
that's why you need to wait. you opened a thread when he just started so i don't see your point of quoting me!

MohammedC
January 7, 2008, 05:55 PM
that's why you need to wait. you opened a thread when he just started so i don't see your point of quoting me!

Originally Posted by akabir77
why do we demand to drop some one from the team after each series?
can't we wait two three series and then demand some ones head?


Well this series the third series since that thread akabir77 bhai. So Can we demand for his head?

BD-Shardul
January 7, 2008, 06:03 PM
তিন লাখ ডলার দিয়া কি খুনি ভাড়া করলাম ণাকি? খুনিই ত, because he is supposed to teach our boys how to kill other teams in the game of cricket.

al Furqaan
January 7, 2008, 06:04 PM
i'd echo sadi's and beamer's comments...aftab will come through simply because he's too talented not to. hopefully his transition will be smoother than ash's.

JS is the man to do it.

Dhakablues
January 7, 2008, 06:05 PM
Jar Noye hoy na,, tar Nobboi te hobey? Boom Boom Aftab could be Adu Aftab bhai?

Watmore was right in saying that Aftab is too talented to be kept out of the test series but Aftab himself will have to work out his temperment before he gets in. Yes, he is a match winner, he can rock any major bowler,,, but only for couple of overs not for an entire day because his right tri-cep is tired hitting all the leg side slog shots by the 5th over (if he lasts that long).

Self destructive act is not acceptable in national team. Aftab has a little rope left.

akabir77
January 7, 2008, 06:05 PM
Well this series the third series since that thread akabir77 bhai. So Can we demand for his head?
what do you think? don't think the thread after first series or the game was too early?

BangladeshFan
January 7, 2008, 06:58 PM
An international player should be able to grab opportunities which are hard to come by. Compare the performance of Matthew Bell with Aftab, you will get the answer. Who is killing whom!!

I second that. National team is not a charity, one has to earn his place by solid performance. Rajin should come in place of him.

scoilaheez
January 7, 2008, 07:12 PM
why is everyone so critical of Aftab. At the end of the day, he is one of our most talented batsmen and he is one of few batsmen who can actually score against fast (90 mph) bowlers, the other batsmen just surrender meekly

Rubu
January 7, 2008, 07:37 PM
I have full faith in Aftabunnessa. He will be able to turn things around, in both form of the game. After all, after ash, he is the best batsman we have.

Zunaid
January 7, 2008, 08:25 PM
Jamie Siddons's don't kill Aftab, Aftab do.

If anyone wishes to query of the grammatical disconnect, please look to NRA's refrain:

"Guns don't kill people; people do".

If people still wish to argue, go here (http://www.google.com/search?q=improve+IQ&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a).

BD Tigers
January 7, 2008, 09:09 PM
Coach doesnt kill player. He teaches and gives ample opportunity to them. If players, no matter how talented he is, dont take that than he doesnt belong here. But one has to give him much needed time. If he is the real deal, like our Aftab, he will come through. But I do think, Aftab needs to play few more 1st class matches or tour with Team A and show his class.

Beamer
January 7, 2008, 10:37 PM
so we let AFTAB fix his problem in the NTL team beamer Bhai? i disagree with that. If there was no better player to replace him i would understand that(lets say if it happen to ash) but he didn't fix his game last time he was dropped (he didn't do that well in NCL).

I agree he should be in the finall 20 so that coach can work on him but letting him play like this match after match will only destroy him and will make a hate fan club like tusher and kapali has. He is much more important for bangladesh than those two.

Akabir bhai

I believe we had a discussion of simmlar sort a while ago. I will stick to my position and have a feeling Siddons feels the same way! Don't forget that this was Aftab's first test in almost two years. Even though he bagged a pair, I do not think, he will be dropped for the second test or for the series against SA. He has to help himself though and the coach can only do so much.I pretty much said in detail in my first post how he changed his game and what has to be done to re claim his own batting. During his time away, replacement players didn't exactly grab the opportunity to cement their position in the test middle order. Lets look at the players who batted between no. 5 and no.6 in tests? Alok, Tushar, Rajin, Sakib, Mehrab and Mushy. So, its Aftab's turn, and he will have to show that the expectation is only matched by dedication and hard work. We can talk about him after the SA series and evaluate his progression.

djnaved
January 7, 2008, 10:43 PM
jimmi Siddons quote, " if a batsman score 30 runs in 20 balls, and throw the wicket in odi, and if another batsman stay at the crease upto 50 overs and score 50 or 60 out of 100 balls, i would rather pick the batsman who is understand the game"

I don't know why aftab have to hit every ball. Also it's also having a problem with Ash. If they look for 6 and 4 in every ball, then then score would be 600-700. I think Jimmi Siddons have to work hard with their batting. If it doesn't work, then Siddons have to follow the kicking out Javed Omor's theory.

Foozy
January 8, 2008, 12:48 AM
There was a rally? Aww, I missed it. Were you in it?

Naa bro, I live in Hamilton. But we did a shorter version of our own though :D I was in that one.

But ya, there seems to be someone who actually videoed it. Heres the link in youtube haha:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3wfYLV-PnZM

nahaz
January 8, 2008, 05:46 AM
If Siddons isn't killing Aftab I will.
(Disclaimer: I do not live anywhere near Aftab and many ppl wanna kill him, so in the case of his death I may not be charged.)
If I had talent like Aftab you'd see a 60+ average in tests.

nahaz
January 8, 2008, 05:51 AM
I really wanna see Aftab get dropped as punishment for repeated carelessness but that should be done AFTER the next test. He doesn't seem to understand his ability to hit means bullcrap if he doesn't score,and other teams will just think he's a pathetic batsmen. In ODIs 30 from 20 balls is often handy but in tests its useless. Gilly can score hundred in 60 balls every match but doesn't mean he isn't prepared to often grind it at the start. Aftab isn't. He can't pace his innings at all. He's useless in my team

cricket_king
January 8, 2008, 06:03 AM
It's way too early to tell anything so I'm not going to bother. But since we are going to "have a crack at it", I say no, he most definitely is not.

What I can say is that the word "lose" is spelt "lose" and not "loose". Here is the difference between the the word "loose" and the word "lose":

Loose - not restrained or confined or attached; "a pocket full of loose bills"; "knocked the ball loose"; "got loose from his attacker"; not tight; not closely constrained or constricted or constricting; "loose clothing"; "the large shoes were very loose".

Lose - fail to keep or to maintain; cease to have, either physically or in an abstract sense; "She lost her purse when she left it unattended on her seat"; fail to win; "We lost the battle but we won the war".

I really hope that straightens out this lose/loose matter for some of the members. Please try keeping this forum up to 3rd grade standards. :)

Omio
January 8, 2008, 07:52 AM
I honestly feel that there is something going on between Aftab and Siddons. Aftab is a natural ODI player who comes in at NO3 and play his natural game. He is one of the best in the BD side with his fearless batting and great fielding. I think that JS is tinkering with his style too much.
Has she banned? Can someone pls tell me whats happend?

uss01
January 8, 2008, 11:21 AM
Yup, totally agreed. Siddons is not destroying Aftab. Aftab is destroying himself. I saw the first odi against New Zealand this time. He threw his wicket by charging against the fast bowler. This is not the first time he did this. Just like Ashraful he keeps doing the same mistake over and over again. I believe he is very lucky to be in the team. It's only because BD does not have many better and smarter players who actually value their wicket. Otherwise he would be gone, out of the national team by now.






I really wanna see Aftab get dropped as punishment for repeated carelessness but that should be done AFTER the next test. He doesn't seem to understand his ability to hit means bullcrap if he doesn't score,and other teams will just think he's a pathetic batsmen. In ODIs 30 from 20 balls is often handy but in tests its useless. Gilly can score hundred in 60 balls every match but doesn't mean he isn't prepared to often grind it at the start. Aftab isn't. He can't pace his innings at all. He's useless in my team

akabir77
January 8, 2008, 12:17 PM
Akabir bhai

I believe we had a discussion of simmlar sort a while ago. I will stick to my position and have a feeling Siddons feels the same way! Don't forget that this was Aftab's first test in almost two years. Even though he bagged a pair, I do not think, he will be dropped for the second test or for the series against SA. He has to help himself though and the coach can only do so much.I pretty much said in detail in my first post how he changed his game and what has to be done to re claim his own batting. During his time away, replacement players didn't exactly grab the opportunity to cement their position in the test middle order. Lets look at the players who batted between no. 5 and no.6 in tests? Alok, Tushar, Rajin, Sakib, Mehrab and Mushy. So, its Aftab's turn, and he will have to show that the expectation is only matched by dedication and hard work. We can talk about him after the SA series and evaluate his progression.

I agree. Ok lets give him time before we start with some one else. beside i love him more than sakib and others. he use to be the main batsman in u-19 when ash was with him and blast the oponents with ease. Hope he will be back in form quickly.

Beamer
January 8, 2008, 12:27 PM
The desire and the relative success that came with going over the top has made Aftab primarily an aerial player and Ash to a certain extent. Both of them are either caught in the in field circle on off side , or near the sq leg-midwkt boundary. It will take hours of net time, specially for Aftab, to play the same strokes, but along the ground. He used to do it before. He has to go back doing it again.

Murad
January 8, 2008, 01:31 PM
Ittefaq saying Aftab might be dropped and Rajin will be playing in his place as Coach was working hard with Rajin during the practice session.

betaar
January 8, 2008, 05:48 PM
Ittefaq saying Aftab might be dropped and Rajin will be playing in his place as Coach was working hard with Rajin during the practice session.

That sux, though Aftab does not seem to have the temparament to play in the longer version yet, I would rather he remained in the team. Bashar who should make room for Rajin but with one eye on Bashar becoming the first BD batsman to reach 3000 runs, selectors wouldn't mess up that opportunity. But it's all speculation....let's see what happens.

Foozy
January 8, 2008, 08:57 PM
I like Rajin coming in. Makes much more sense than Aftab or Haba playing. I guess Haba's 3k put him up for another trial lol

Eshen
January 8, 2008, 09:13 PM
What's the big deal about 3K ? It's not a milestone for a top order batsman, not in post WW2 era.

Gowza
January 8, 2008, 09:44 PM
That sux, though Aftab does not seem to have the temparament to play in the longer version yet, I would rather he remained in the team. Bashar who should make room for Rajin but with one eye on Bashar becoming the first BD batsman to reach 3000 runs, selectors wouldn't mess up that opportunity. But it's all speculation....let's see what happens.

wouldn't be so sure of that, i mean rafique is only 6 wickets away from 100 test wickets and they didn't pick him for the NZ series (would he be/have been the first BD player to 100 test wickets?).

Gowza
January 8, 2008, 09:45 PM
What's the big deal about 3K ? It's not a milestone for a top order batsman, not in post WW2 era.

i agree 3000 runs isn't that big of a deal, in saying that it would be a record for BD so in that respect it would be a breakthrough milestone.

Sohel
January 8, 2008, 10:36 PM
What's the big deal about 3K ? It's not a milestone for a top order batsman, not in post WW2 era.

It's a big deal for a BANGLADESHI batsman, especially for some of our fans and cricketers from a bygone era who set low standards for themselves and our cricket. Nostalgia and pure sentimentality can add a lot of color to mediocrity when it comes to those folks.

That said, HaBa needs to get those runs first and until that particular "landmark" is met and surpassed by someone else, it will remain a big deal.

Sovik
January 9, 2008, 09:37 AM
If Siddons isn't killing Aftab I will.
(Disclaimer: I do not live anywhere near Aftab and many ppl wanna kill him, so in the case of his death I may not be charged.)
If I had talent like Aftab you'd see a 60+ average in tests.


to bad you don't have. he doesn't have the brain to use his talent for good. he is a good odi player but he is not cut out for test.

ahms
January 9, 2008, 12:43 PM
Strategy of Siddon is to make our batsman to stay longer in the crease. I guess Aftab doesn't know any defensive shot. I assume that's what he needs to learn from coach.

Pundit
January 9, 2008, 01:23 PM
Aftab needs to learn a lot.

But still...our coach has to be extra careful with this lad, afterall, he was the 2nd highest six hitter in 2006. You never know, just to surpass Jaya, he may begin practicing on our coach and...do the un-thinkable : "KILL" HIM INSTEAD!

Pundit
January 9, 2008, 01:25 PM
What's the big deal about 3K ? It's not a milestone for a top order batsman, not in post WW2 era.

No deal, just an easily remembered number.

Will that do?

Pundit
January 9, 2008, 01:27 PM
How can anyone kill a dead man?

With your long time absence, one could have assumed that Aftab actually "killed you."

Welcome back...O one of the Original Ones.

Pundit
January 9, 2008, 01:28 PM
60+ average in tests, I seeeee. In that case, Bradman's average would have been like 2000.

Originally Posted by nahaz
If Siddons isn't killing Aftab I will.
(Disclaimer: I do not live anywhere near Aftab and many ppl wanna kill him, so in the case of his death I may not be charged.)
If I had talent like Aftab you'd see a 60+ average in tests.

betaar
January 9, 2008, 02:41 PM
wouldn't be so sure of that, i mean rafique is only 6 wickets away from 100 test wickets and they didn't pick him for the NZ series (would he be/have been the first BD player to 100 test wickets?).

I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to drop Bashar from the next test and play him for the last time against SA in our home soil along with Rafik. That way they both can take a shot at their individual goals in front of the home crowd.