View Full Version : Playing for a draw or win

October 23, 2003, 10:27 AM
Playing for a draw or win

At the end of the third day playing for a draw seems to be the only realistic goal for the Bangladeshi team. Its almost impossible to get a win with only 2 days (210 overs with 30 extra overs) left and about 85 runs to even up.

Bangladeshi batsmen need to bat as long as possible and not worry too much about the run rate. (except Rafiq, Shujon and Masri who seem to only score when they are reckless). We don't need to score quickly in order to have enough time to bowl England out. Even if we score 300, it will be easy for England to score 200 in 50 overs (less than half of a day)

Actually, even a draw will not be easy - if it does not rain. We have to stay on the wicket about 130 more overs and let England bat at most 80 overs to really have a shot. Golla knows that he will be playing for his test career life. Look for him to come through this time. Rajin will be badly missed on the fourth day. You don't need to fasten your seatbelt friends. Its going to have to be slow and grueling and lets hope for that...

[Edited on 24-10-2003 by pagol-chagol]

October 23, 2003, 10:54 AM
I have a feeling we will be all out right after lunch.

October 23, 2003, 11:13 AM
BD is definetely going to show what a "war of attrition" is. In bowling Rafiq is capable of bowling his relentless spells, this is his asset. In batting I think Javed will have to do an equally ardous task, that is sticking to the wicket for a marathon stand. So for a draw scenario I look to Javed and Rafiq to get the English bogged down.

October 23, 2003, 11:15 AM
Always play for win.No way man.


October 23, 2003, 11:37 AM
It sounds good to say "always play for win". But, risking all your marbles on difficult odds is not intelligent. It would have helped if going for a win would enhance the chance for a draw. Actually arguing about draw or win is a waste of time at this point. We must bat atleast 4 sessions to make this match competitive. I'll say one century and one or two 50s will do it. Basher will do his customery 52. Who'll get the century??? Dream on....

October 23, 2003, 11:44 AM
I think a draw is unrealistic unless there is some divine intervention (pronounced "rain").

We need to focus on the small goals at first - surviving harmison and getting past the 81 runs deficit first, and then trying to build a lead.

Hannan, Bashar and Kapali (and hopefully Golla) need to play the innings of their lives ...

October 23, 2003, 11:54 AM
If they can bat well and can get a 230+ lead , it will be an interesting game.

Don't forget that in the subcontinent the pitch starts to favor the spinners from the 3rd day and what we already witnessed.

All we need is one century, one fifty and couple of 20's. Sumon. Hannan, Kapali, Pilot, Rafiq are surely capable of that.

Now, let's look at the betting for this game.

Michael Vaughan’s side is 1/7 with bet365 to record a win. For Bangladesh is 28/1 and for the draw is 18/5 which is not bad.

Top England Batsman
Skipper Vaughan is rated 11/4 favourite to top-score for England in the first innings, narrowly ahead of Marcus Trescothick (5/2). Of the longer-priced batsmen, Chris Read - the likely replacement for Alec Stewart as the wicketkeeper who can bat - is a good outside bet at 25/1 following his 82 against Bangladesh A.

Top England Bowler
Matthew Hoggard is expected to lead an unfamiliar England attack on his return from injury, and is rated 2/1 favourite to take the most wickets in Bangladesh's first innings. Ashley Giles is 4/1 and Gareth Batty 5/1 to lead the wicket-taking.

Top Bangladesh Batsman
Habibul Bashar is favourite to lead the Bangladesh runscoring in the first innings. His 3/1 odds place him ahead of Hannan Sarkar (7/2), Rajin Saleh and Javed Omar (both 5/1).
src: bet365

Already most of the strong betting for the 1st innings were wrong. Let's hope for the same will hapen for the game result.

October 23, 2003, 12:33 PM
Trescothick believes, they can wrap up the game today.


October 23, 2003, 12:34 PM
In any cases, The bowler will rule in the next 2 days. I think the match will come to a result. Not sure yet the fate of BD...but try to bat upto lunch with caution and then try to get some quick runs after that.

Give Eng a chance of winning (at least they think so..) so that they can try to play like a one-day without their original one-dayers :) (and fail)


October 23, 2003, 12:35 PM
i dont know why i m feeling that BD will loose by 9 wickets tomorrow

October 23, 2003, 12:37 PM
fataslistic posts give me a headache. even with collapses, bangladesh can last out 2-3 sessions and put up 200-250. england can of course chase that on the final day. Anything more from BD and they will have a very good chance for a draw. another england collapse on the final day on the spin track can mean an even better result.

October 23, 2003, 12:39 PM
Fellow veteran Graham Thorpe played down suggestions of foul play after a floodlight failure ended play early with England back in the ascendancy.

I do hope that was not the case. But the accusation alone is too much.

[Edited on 23-10-2003 by Rajputro]

October 23, 2003, 12:41 PM
Trescothick scored a 100 with the help of the devil "Ashoka". He should keep his mouth shut.

October 23, 2003, 12:58 PM
BD will be playing to reduce the margin of defeat. If rain or the bad light is there to help BD, then they will loose on the 5th day. Otherwise it should be over today.

Just thinking --
If this light problem was in Pakistan then this message board would have been flooded with posts about how coward and bunch of cheater pakistanis are. Right?

I want to see Kapali score a century and play spinners.

October 23, 2003, 02:20 PM
On the first innings, the first wicket of BD fell at 12/1.

On this second innings, the first wicket fell at 12/1.

I do hope the second innings will turn out lot better than first one.

October 23, 2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by allrounder

Just thinking --
If this light problem was in Pakistan then this message board would have been flooded with posts about how coward and bunch of cheater pakistanis are. Right?

Knowing our power crisis, we would'nt start looking for foul play there. Not so early. But now if tomorrow the pitch becomes a batsman's paradise then we will go back and will surely try to find something 'fishy' about this power failure.
And will probably think that our pakistan tour enriched our armoury.

October 23, 2003, 04:14 PM
Just don't see a draw happening. Not on this pitch. You are disregarding the pitch situation in your assessment of this match. If we go for a win, it doesn't mean that we will bat quickly and leave our bowlers four sessions to get England out. On this pitch, you don't need four sessions to get a team out, we got em out in two yesterday!

The idea is to bat out the day. If we can do that, and get a lead of about 180-200, we can give England a run for their money. On the fifth day, getting even a 200 is not easy. The pitch is already starting to misbehave. Either we will bowl them out below that score and win the Test, or they will score the runs and we will lose. A draw is highly unlikely.

Our major goal right now should be to bat the day out, or atleast the vast majority of it.

October 23, 2003, 04:30 PM
Anything over 150 is going to be handfull for the English.
Uneven bounce, turn, probable moisture in the air, everything is making it a hell of a pitch to bat on the fourth innings. Uneven bounce and turn will make Jr. and Rafique unplayable. And if there is moisture Mushfiq and Sujon will also become handy with the uneven bounce.
I dont see how the Tresco and Co. can survive even with the help of Ashoka. Agaist a turning pitch even Indian batsmen had all kind of troubles. remember the 96 WC semifinal.

We just need to hang on there for 2-3 sessions as Sham has stated. Pitch will do the rest.

There is no way to draw this match without the help of rain.

October 23, 2003, 04:51 PM
I it a bad pitch or is it just the pitch characteristic ??

Uneven bounce !! My foot - next time someone tell these over analytical English "meows" to bring along with them a synthetic turf !!

October 23, 2003, 05:03 PM
Prediction: BD 2nd innings total +/- 275. A lead of 180+. England may win by 4 to 7 wickets.

Rajin - 8
Bashar - 12
Sarker - 18
Golla - 60
Alok - 25
Mushfiq - 48!
Pilot - 18
Sujon - 27
Rafiq - 28
Masri - 15
Jr - 4

Extra - 11
The match will go into the 5th day.

October 23, 2003, 05:10 PM
How many balls and minutes for Golla's 60 ? How many fours ?

October 23, 2003, 05:38 PM
150 is too small for any pitch.

October 23, 2003, 05:43 PM
agree with Sham and tnb...if we can bat couple of sessions(whole day will be great) we can make them bat next day taking lead of 250(which i doubt will happen in this pitch)...let's see for tommorrow....hope Almighty helps atleat two or three batsman to score heavy...

October 23, 2003, 05:49 PM
Win draw lose whatever. The only goal now is to bat as loooooooong as possible. No need of aggression.

October 23, 2003, 05:58 PM
our goal should be bat as long as we can...but the condition of the ptich is not good! It has uneven bounces...we have to be really careful...lets hope for the best

October 23, 2003, 06:37 PM
I want to see some positive cricket. I like the way BD started off last night. They hit the bad balls. The thing is, if we putter along at 1.5 runs an over, we can bat for 90 overs and still only score 135. We need to bat carefully but positively. If they just go out there to defend, they are gonna dig their own graves. England bowlers will strike a rhythm and then we'll get bowled out anyway without scoring too many runs.

I want us to take the fight to the English. Score runs, put 280 on the board and set them some runs to win! It will be too dull to bat the day out and score 150. Lets not forget our best innings in recent times (not the 360 odd against Pak but the 288 against Australia), we only scored that many because we took the fight to the Aussies and played positive cricket. Of course positive cricket doesn't mean silly cricket, like going for expansive drives at everything outside the off stump.

October 23, 2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by paco
How many balls and minutes for Golla's 60 ? How many fours ?

138 balls, only five 4s, a patient and subdued innings.

[Edited on 23-10-2003 by billah]

October 23, 2003, 09:21 PM
Good points Sham.

But your example of 135 runs in 90 overs is not something even 11 Gollas would be capable of. A team filled with Basher, Masri, Shujon and Rafiq can't do that even if they try to. We'll have at least 250 just by surviving the day.

October 23, 2003, 09:29 PM
Agree with ur main thrust of argument, I shall say see of the first hour, carefully, let the english spirits go down a bit, then build on that.
Positive cricket as u say doesnt mean going for those ohwowwhatashot! kind of strokes, but also taking singles, rotating the strike and putting the bad balls away etc. Its a huge pity that India, Pakistan dont do it too often.
I hope Bangladesh gets this knack early and work hard at it. Singles are the life blood of an Inninga as SMGavaskar keeps saying.

October 24, 2003, 07:52 AM
I say that we have come out with this slogan from Day 4 of the test match:

If you do not want it for yourself, for Bangladesh, for the crowd, do it for Ashoka De Silva.

October 24, 2003, 09:17 AM
Just play on the front foot and straight drive.You see that most of the runs come through 3rd man in the 2nd innings of bd side.Thats mean if there r 2/3 sleeps than English get more adge and easy catch.But the main thing is Bd player could not get more run from off side with ondrive.So they should try more to get more run from that region.And it is more easy to get run of that region.Although there r 2 players standing that region 2 cover 4 and singles.But they should play upper shot for that.No need to do that.Just play straight.No need to make risky shot.


October 24, 2003, 10:41 AM
Great job BD. Almost 250 in less than 100 overs.

Basically the batting strategy should be the same whether we want a draw or win.

Mushfiq must stay not out until the end.

Mushfiq and Shujon has to carefully keep scoring runs. No risky shots.

Rafiq and Masri need to go crazy with sixers.

Enamul Jr. - I have no idea what he can do.

October 24, 2003, 12:49 PM
WE need to come out firing...put away the bad balls without mercy...put the poms under pressure....

October 24, 2003, 12:51 PM
150 is not a good lead. We still have to bat the morning session and score a lead of 250. Which is still acheivable in a One day match (50-60 overs).

A win is very very unlikely. We can try for a draw, but loss is still a high chance.

[Edited on 24-10-2003 by Rajputro]

October 24, 2003, 01:51 PM
I dont think we will get a 250 lead. And more importantly, we shouldn't need one. This is not a one day wicket, its a fifth day wicket. If our seamers can be disciplined and our spinners can take advantage of the rough caused by the bowlers footmarks, there is no reason why we can't get them out for less than 200.

If we were playing Australia, we would need atleast 250, just because the Aussies would go for it. But if we can get a lead of 200 and get a couple of early wickets, England is going to play out for the draw. We have nothing to lose and they have everything to lose. They dont want to be the first side to lose to Bangladesh. The pressure is on them.

A crumbling fifth day pitch, some good bowling by the BD bowlers and a good deal of pressure on the Englishmen to avoid defeat should combine to make this Bangladesh's day! I hope.

October 24, 2003, 02:59 PM
The pressure is definintely on England. After all, they are not playing for a draw, at least, not yet. They want the early breakthrough. England also would like to restrict the leat below the 200 mark. All these are within reach. If that happens, they will sure go for it. As for us, if we do well in the morning session, in the least, we are enforcing a draw. I'll tell you, a draw would suite me much better than a valiant defeat. All the pressure is on England, no doubt. The chances for us losing is still high.

October 24, 2003, 03:30 PM
Considering there's 101 overs tomorrow due to bad light...that means if Bangladesh bats until lunch and hits another 120 then England would have to chace 230-240 in two sessions in the fourth innings. Almost impossible and while trying to slog away might get bowled out...I'm not becoming DOORBIN i hope

October 24, 2003, 04:11 PM
Getting another 120 is hard :( Although I would love to see that... I expect another 60-80 runs being scored tomorrow... However another 120 runs doesnt sound that impossible come to think of it. If Masri and Rafiq just come out all guns blazing for a late flurry of runs things might just turn nicely... But we cant count on that... It will be a bonus if that happens and at the same time its not unlikely either... way too much maybes for the final day.... I am just too excited... I guess I just have to calm down a bit... But it kinda seems that the match will be a draw... a well played draw on bangladesh's part... :) another 100 runs will definitely make things difficult for the english batsmen...

[Edited on 24-10-2003 by radicalsami]

October 24, 2003, 04:16 PM
bangladesh should try to get a lead of over 200 and try to bat at least half of the morning session. this would have england in two minds. im sure england would not want to risk losing quick wickets in order to chase the total. just hope it rains for while too.

October 24, 2003, 04:18 PM
let us win or draw without any help...
we don't anyone saying we managed it just coz of the rain....we have fought so far in the match...its only fitting that we either make it or go down fighting...

October 24, 2003, 04:19 PM
I double that pompous... Pls NO RAIN...

October 24, 2003, 04:48 PM
there's much work to be done yet. Let's not forget thresco's form, and of course Mr. Thorpe. Anything short of 200 will be piece of cake for England

October 24, 2003, 05:54 PM
nice show by three of them...but loosing 6 wkts...may have to make us wait for a draw/win till next tour in future ....we are almost there...but media has to shut up (e.g. cricketnext, and other sites bashing us in all ariticle about our 25 loses...plz media ppl you don't have to mention the amount of looses we had...thanks) ...lets wish for a good fight

October 24, 2003, 06:52 PM
whatever our final lead is, it should be enticing enough so england can go for it (and fail) but at the same time secure enough so we don't lose the match. the most IMPORTANT thing is to NOT LOSE again, even more than the win. We have to break the cycle of defeats and having come this close, and with 4 wickets in hand, Bangladesh have a chance to dictate what will happen tomorrow.

That was not the case at Multan, where we were not in a position to draw - it was either win or lose.

I would like to see some smart running between wickets and controlled agression to get to 300, after that we need to blast runs as quickly as possible, even if it means getting out. If we come out blasting, we will lose the remaining 4 wickets for another 25 runs and england may win by tea.

sham I am not as confident as you. Bangladesh have choked before and don't yet know how to win a close one. We will know tomorrow how far they have truly come, as they have to deal with all aspects of winning on the 5th day - the batting strategy, the run rate, when to end the innings, how much room to give england, and the decision on the night of the 4th on whether to go for it or not.

October 24, 2003, 11:47 PM
Boy....I'm Psychotic....I mean... I mean.. I'm Psychic. Hate it when I'm so on the money with predictions.