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al Furqaan
January 17, 2008, 04:50 PM
Yes, I know most of you are thinking "al Furqaan and the word 'qualitative' do not mix...where is our statistics-obsessed junkie? who is is this imposter."

Nonetheless re-reading one of Sohel bhai's posts from around New Years, I thought we should rank our players in various categories to better ascertain where we need to improve at. This is a thread, where I will start off, but will undoubtedly admit that Sohel bhai, Beamer bhai, Razab bhai, and Eshen bhai will know much better than me. So guys, please correct me here.

Anyways this categories are qualitative simply because there exists no numerical way to analyze them. Nonetheless I think it is just as important as my WEIR ratings, and actually more so.

The categories for batting are: technique, temperement, stroke play, shot selection, footwork, and versatility. By versatility I mean, can a batsmen adjust to situations and play accordingly (e.g playing anchoring role or launch a caclulated assault on bowling attack).

For bowling I choose: striking ability (ability to take wickets), economy, intelligence, workhorse (a bowler who can reliably bowl long spells if need be).

For fielding we have: athleticism (ground fielding), catching, slip fielding, throwing (at stumps).

For keeping: awareness, athleticism, dismismal ability

It may be a good idea to rate the players on a 1-10 qualitative scale.
Player.................Rating (out of 10)............................Class designation

.........................Test...........ODI

Batting Technique

Ashraful................10.............10......... ......................world class
Rahim..................8.5............8.5......... ......................world class
Aftab...................8...............8......... .......................world class
Tamim.................7................7.......... ......................test class
* N Iqbal...............7................7............ .....................test class
Mehrab Jr.............6.5..............6.5............... ................int'l class
Farhad.................6.5..............6.5....... ........................int'l class
Junaid.................6................6......... .........................int'l class
Rajin...................6................6........ .........................int'l class
S Nafees...............5.5.............5.5.......... .....................int'l class
Javed..................5................5......... .........................crap class
Mashrafee.............5................5.......... .......................crap class
Pilot....................5................5....... ..........................crap class
Bashar.................4................4......... .........................crap class
Sakib...................4...............4......... .........................crap class
Alok....................?................?........ ..........................??????
Tushar.................4................4......... .........................crap class

Batting Temperament

M Rahim..............9.................9............ ......................world class
Ashraful...............8.5..............8.5....... .........................world class
S Nafees..............8.5...............8.5......... .......................world class
N Iqbal................8..................8......... .........................world class
Rajin..................8..................8....... ...........................world class
Sakib..................8..................8....... ...........................world class
Pilot...................8..................8...... .............................world class
Mehrab Jr.............8..................8............... ....................world class
Alok...................7..................7....... .............................test class
Javed.................6.5................6.5...... ...........................int'l class
Bashar................5.5................5.5...... ...........................int'l class
Mashrafee............5.5.................5.5...... ..........................int'l class
Aftab.................4...................4....... ............................crap class

Stroke Play
Ashraful.............10..................10....... ............................world class
Aftab.................9...................9....... .............................world class
* Alok.................8...................8........ ............................world class
S Nafees.............7...................7.......... ...........................test class
M Rahim.............7...................7........... ..........................test class
Tamim...............6...................6......... ............................int'l class
* N Iqbal..............6...................6.......... ..........................int'l class
Bashar................5...................5....... .............................crap class
Pilot..................5...................5...... ...............................crap class
Javed................3...................3........ ..............................crap class
Junaid...............?.....................?...... ...............................?????

Shot selection

M Rahim.............9..................9............ ..........................world class
Tamim...............7.5...............7.5......... ...........................test class
S Nafees.............6..................6........... ...........................int'l class
Junaid...............6...................6........ ..............................int'l class
Sakib................5.5.................5.5...... ..............................int'l class
Pilot.................5.5.................5.5..... ...............................int'l class
Ashraful.............5...................5........ ..............................crap class
Bashar...............5...................5........ ..............................crap class
Javed................5...................5........ ..............................crap class
Alok.................?.....................?...... ................................?????
Tushar..............4...................4......... ...............................crap class
N Iqbal..............4...................4.......... ..............................crap class
Aftab................2..................2......... ................................very crap class

Footwork

Ashraful.............9..................9......... ................................world class
M Rahim............8..................8............. .............................world class
Rajin................7..................7......... .................................test class
S Nafees............5...................5........... ..............................crap class
Sakib...............4....................4........ .................................crap class

Versatility

Ashraful............10..................10........ ................................world class
Aftab................10.................10........ ................................world class
S Nafees.............7..................7........... ...............................test class
M Rahim.............6.5...............6.5........... .............................test class

Bowling strike ability

Shahadat............9...................6......... ................................world class
Mashrafee...........7...................7......... ................................test class
Rasel.................6.5................7.5...... ..................................test class
Sajid.................6.5................?........ ................................test class
Rafique..............6.5..................5....... .................................test class
Enam.................5..................5......... ..................................crap class
Tapash...............3..................6......... ..................................crap class

Economy

Rafique...............9.5...............8......... ................................world class
Sakib..................9.................8........ ..................................world class
Enam..................8.................8......... ..................................world class
Mashrafee............7..................7......... .................................test class
Rasel..................6.5................8.5..... ...................................test class
Sajid..................5.5................?....... ....................................int'l class
Shahadat.............3...................6........ ..................................crap class
Razzak................3...................10...... ..................................crap/wrld

Intelligence

Rafique..............10..................8........ ..................................world class
Rasel.................7...................10...... ...................................world class
Mashrafee...........7...................6......... .................................test class
Shahadat............7...................6......... .................................test class
Sajid.................7...................?....... ....................................test class
Enam................6....................?........ ...................................int'l class

Workhorse

Rafique.............10............................ ...................................world class
Shahadat...........10............................. ...................................world class
Enam................10............................ ...................................world class
Mashrafee...........8.5........................... ..................................world class
Sakib.................8........................... ....................................world class
Rasel.................7........................... .....................................test class
Sajid.................?........................... ......................................

Fielding athleticism

Aftab...............10............................ ...................................world class
Rajin...............10............................ ....................................world class
Tamim..............8.............................. ..................................world class
Ashraful.............7............................ ....................................test class
Sakib................7............................ ....................................test class
Farhad..............7............................. ....................................test class
Mashrafee..........6.............................. ...................................test class
Javed...............6............................. .....................................test class
Bashar..............5............................. .....................................crap class
S Nafees............5............................... ...................................crap class

Catching

Aftab...............10............................ ....................................world class
Rajin................9............................ .....................................world class
Tamim..............9.............................. ...................................world class
Ashraful............7.5........................... ....................................test class
Sakib...............7.5........................... ....................................test class
Javed..............7.............................. ....................................test class
S Nafees...........5................................ ..................................crap
Bashar.............5.............................. .....................................crap class

Slip Fielding

Junaid............8............................... ....................................world class
Rest..............1-3................................................. ..............hi crap class

Throwing (at stumps)

Tamim............7................................ .................................test class
Aftab..............7.............................. ...................................test class
Ashraful...........6.............................. ...................................test class

Keeping awareness

Pilot..............9.............................. ....................................world class
M Rahim.........6................................... ...............................test class

Keeping athleticism

M Rahim..........10................................. ...............................world class
Pilot...............7............................. .....................................test class

Keeping Dismissal

Pilot...............7............................. .....................................test class
M Rahim..........6.................................. ................................int'l class

Fazal
January 17, 2008, 05:02 PM
Khaise from WEIR to QEIR

nzfan
January 17, 2008, 05:03 PM
So to be world class you have to be a flashy batsmen who hits fours and sixes all the time?

RazabQ
January 17, 2008, 05:04 PM
Hmm... interesting... I like your attributes for batsmen, but a lot of the bowling ones are pretty statistical (e.g. economy, avg, strike rate). I like intelligence. To that I'd add durability, versatility (e.g. ability to be effective regardless of conditions), intimidation/hostility (batsmen is immediately afraid if a pacer, or immediately hides his bat behind the pads if a spinner).

What do y'all think?

RazabQ
January 17, 2008, 05:05 PM
And I'd be wary of giving any of our players world-class (which to me would imply top 10-20) status.

israr
January 17, 2008, 05:10 PM
Job very well done, al Furqaan. I am impressed!

According to me, Junaid should be higher up the rankings in technique, while Sakib should be higher up the rankings in shot selection and temperament sections.

Nonetheless, I agree with most of your other ratings.

Tigers_eye
January 17, 2008, 05:22 PM
Al-Furqaan,
Good effort but I just need to know what was the curve. Our players getting 10s and 9s says there is almost no room for improvement.

Mental strength to adapt test format for all our world class batsmen are below 5 (crap). No consistency at all. I wonder what would their grading be on that one.

akabir77
January 17, 2008, 05:25 PM
none of our batsmen r world class. at best test level...

Omio
January 17, 2008, 05:28 PM
So, Mushfique is best so far..lol

pocha
January 17, 2008, 06:08 PM
So, Mushfique is best so far..lol

Hail Mushfique - the best (world class) player of BD :notworthy:

Ishtylish cricketer
January 17, 2008, 06:14 PM
I don't mean to be rude nor offensive but this method of ranking seems highly biased and without good cricketing logic...I mean according to your ranking, Bashar, Sakib and Tushar Imran all have worst batting technique than Mashrafee. Rajin, Nafees Iqbal have some of the best techniques going around in Bd yet they are ranked lower than Rahim? Rahim's technique was good in England when he moved his feet and got behind the line of the ball but his technique of late against the swinging ball is very suspect. He has yet to prove he can play well off the backfoot and often gets out behind the wicket which is not a sign of a good technically sound player. You rated Rahim's strokeplay higher than Tamim! Shot selection should be judged based on the length and line of the ball and not necessarily shot execution. Based in the shot selection criteria I would rate Ashraful the best. He always doesn't succeed at excuting pull shots or drives but he most often chooses the right shot to play as compared with his teammates. Fielding...well I have seen Ashraful drop some sitters. Generally speaking he's decent. Best fielder in Bd is Aftab Ahmad, followed by Rajin, Alok, the 2 Iqbals, Mash, Shakib, Tapash, and even JO. Bowling well, frankly speaking none of our bowlers stand out except maybe for Mashrafee and Razzak in ODIs. Rest are unproven like many of the theories that I have about a lot of things.

al Furqaan
January 17, 2008, 06:55 PM
some people are missing the point.

in order to be a world class batsman or bowler, one must be world class in at least several of the parameters. in addition, there is the one parameter which is missing because it is purely statistical and qualitative: performance!

none of our players are world class. there is absolutely no doubt about that. however to say that ashraful isn't a near perfect stroke maker is also equally BS. name a shot he can't play and score runs from. name a player who has more shots in their repertoire than he does.

but none of players have the combos necessary to be an overall world class player, as someone pointed out already: there are maybe 20 world class batsmen in all the world, and perhaps 10-20 bowlers with that designation.

also notice that a key ingredient to sucess - even in t20 bullshit cricket - is shot selection and temperment where many of our players are notoriously deficient. and if they have one, they are lacking in the other. it is absolutely necessary for both.

we have many players with world class level "talent"; all BC members agree to that. but what lack is ability to meld it all together and produce world class performances as a team or as individuals.

other wise all the other 8 teams would always be co-champions of every world cup, or co-number 1 team in the world since they all have several world class players.

al Furqaan
January 17, 2008, 06:58 PM
I don't mean to be rude nor offensive but this method of ranking seems highly biased and without good cricketing logic...I mean according to your ranking, Bashar, Sakib and Tushar Imran all have worst batting technique than Mashrafee. Rajin, Nafees Iqbal have some of the best techniques going around in Bd yet they are ranked lower than Rahim? Rahim's technique was good in England when he moved his feet and got behind the line of the ball but his technique of late against the swinging ball is very suspect. He has yet to prove he can play well off the backfoot and often gets out behind the wicket which is not a sign of a good technically sound player. You rated Rahim's strokeplay higher than Tamim! Shot selection should be judged based on the length and line of the ball and not necessarily shot execution. Based in the shot selection criteria I would rate Ashraful the best. He always doesn't succeed at excuting pull shots or drives but he most often chooses the right shot to play as compared with his teammates. Fielding...well I have seen Ashraful drop some sitters. Generally speaking he's decent. Best fielder in Bd is Aftab Ahmad, followed by Rajin, Alok, the 2 Iqbals, Mash, Shakib, Tapash, and even JO. Bowling well, frankly speaking none of our bowlers stand out except maybe for Mashrafee and Razzak in ODIs. Rest are unproven like many of the theories that I have about a lot of things.

this is a highly generalized scheme...and its not based on one or 2 innings here and there, but is based instead on trends.

yes it is biased, for which i will make the rare admission that my post is not objectively correct.

but after all this entire site is a biased site: www.banglacricket.com...without any bias, this site would be called www.aussiecricket.com

djnaved
January 17, 2008, 07:29 PM
mushfiqer batting worldclass!

voi paichi.. ami mone kori ash ar tamim( notun hishebe) chara karo playerer batting world class na..

mushfiqer batting crap class ami mone kori.. ta na hole mr golden duck boy hoito na

Sohel
January 18, 2008, 12:08 AM
Asaad,

Back in Dhaka for a day to find this good thread, thank you … :)

Although I see what you mean by it, I’d still be careful to use the phrase “world class” with any of our batsman at this point. We shouldn’t allow, IMHO, our loyalty and passion color our reality and inflate our expectations at this critical juncture of our cricket culture. Not only can that lead to continuous heartbreaks and disappointments with seemingly no end in sight, it just won’t be honest to do so. I’d rather qualify the phrase with the word “potential” and see what happens when our young batsmen in particular start to mature in their late 20s, and hit their peaks in their early to mid 30s. Young geniuses such as Lara, Tendulkar, Ponting, Smith, Pietersen and now Clarke are the exceptions rather than the rule in International cricket, and we must continue to wait for the Ashes, the Tamims, the Zunaeds, the Samuelses, the Tharangas, the Nazirs, and the Taylors among others to mature and blossom when the time comes. Mahela Jayawardena and Kumar Sangakkara are just two good examples of what happens when they do.

Until then, we better learn to bite the bullet as they continue to have the opportunity to learn on the job at the highest level. Hopefully, a reformatted and financially revamped NCL with at least 15/15 matches as opposed to the current 10/10 setup, played on better, more sporting wickets can prepare them better for International cricket.

Having said all that, here’s how I’ll rate our batsmen based on what I’ve seen, not just the numbers.

My scale ranges from 1 to 3.

A. 3 = GOOD, meaning i) picks up the line and length of the delivery early, ii) has good natural footwork with a tendency to play through the line, iii) plays with a straight bat, iv) can play strokes AND rotate the strike with ease, and v) is aware of the field and the overall situation irrespective of what he does with that knowledge.

B. 2 = OK, meaning i) needs time to settle, but one he does WATCH out (Abir), ii) has shown great improvement with footwork but still has occasional issues with flashing outside the off with no movement of the feet and playing across the line (Abir), iii) not a very clean hitter of the ball (Moyna), iv) can play strokes but doesn’t rotate the strike as well as he needs to (Abir), v) allows his personal goals to dictate decisions rather than his awareness of the filed and the situation at hand (too many to list).

C. 1 = BAD, meaning i) needs a lot of time to settle IF he decides to do that first (HaBa never does), often blocking full-tosses and half-volleys and withdrawing into a shell, inviting pressure and burying himself and his team in a hole tough to climb out of (NOT HaBa), ii) often looks uncomfortable inside the crease and plays across the line (HaBa), iii) plays streaky and low-percentage strokes (HaBa), has compulsions he cannot manage (HaBa), and can’t rotate the strike withy ease(HaBa), iv) his only goal is to score a 50 and lobby for his inclusion no matter what the field-setting or the situation (HaBa + too many others really), and v) he is a “stop-gap measure” born of lack of long-term vision and patience (NOT HaBa), and a cavalier disregard for the fundamentals of batting (HaBa + too many others really).

So, bearing all that in mind, here’s my list: -

1. Mohammad Ashraful Matin: 3-, just wait until he’s 27 and count our blessings until he’s about 34-35. He’s the closest thing we have to “world class”. The day he goes with higher percentage strokes along the ground consistently, he will become just that (at last). Mitigating factor: himself, albeit less so since his captaincy.

-----

2. Alok Kapali: 2.75, a better batsman since NCL 2006-2007 with excellent footwork (no more shuffling) and new batting technique. Great stroke maker who can also rotate the strike with ease, as clearly evidenced by many of his 50+ innings over the last two seasons in the NCL. Sadly, he has transition issues with regards to the highest level. People, friend and foe alike, expect more from him and he must find the mental wherewithall to respond those expectations more positively. I feel an extensive tour with a yet-to-be BUSY A-team and other junior circuits can make him our Misbah when he’s 28-29. Mitigating factor: aside from the well-documented adjustment issues at the highest level, he has early difficulties picking up good, new ball deliveries and should stay in the middle order.

3. Zunaed Siddique: 2.75+, a total newbie with better temperament than most of our oldies put together. Perhaps the most elegant leg-side player I have seen among Bangladeshis. That said, his temperament goes down the tubes once he reaches triple figures, something he needs to work on. He has shot selection issues, especially with his bottom hand play when trying to hit over mid-on, and can be lured into edging one to 2nd or 3rd slip with steady hammering in the right channel. I expect him and Tamim to be the first Bangladeshi batsmen to average near 50 in all forms of the sport. Mitigating factor: youth and inexperience.

4. Tamim Iqbal: 2.75+, since NCL 2007-2008. I have never seen ANY Bangladeshi player improve as quickly as Tamim. Like Zunaed, his temperament goes down the tubes once he reaches triple figures, something he needs to work on. He has shot selection issues, especially with mis-timed sweep shots, and can be lured into gifting one to 1st or 2nd slip with short, chest-high deliveries that surprise him. I expect him and Zunaed to be the first Bangladeshi batsmen to average near 50 in all forms of the sport. Mitigating factor: youth and inexperience.

5. Imrul Kayes: 2.75, since NCL 2007-2008. He improved greatly and took the spotlight away from the more dashing Nazmus Sadat with his solid technique and temperament. NO shot selection issues until he reaches triple figures. That said, better bowling at the International level will present opportunities for him to know his limitations better and respond accordingly. Maybe he is the #3 we’ve been looking for (Ash is still my #1 choice for that slot BTW). Mitigating factor: youth and inexperience.

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6. Rokibul Hasan: 2.5+. The only visible weakness in his game is the inability to pick up pacier deliveries as quick as the 5 mentioned before him, including Alok's. Technically solid and improving. I expect him to be be the mainstay of our middle order in his late 20s. Mitigating factor: youth and inexperience.

7. Shahriar Nafees: 2.5+ since his better, more compact defensive technique as seen during the New Zealand tour. Mitigating factor: still has footwork issues when fishing outside off and early difficulties picking up good, new ball deliveries and should stay in the middle order. Also, he has had difficulty dealing with flight and pace variation since his Fatullah heroics, often resulting in comical attempts to sweep.

8. Aftab Ahmed: 2.5+, showing better temperament of late. Mitigating factor: himself and his difficulties against quality spin.

9. Nazmus Sadat: 2.5+. Temperament and shot selection issues. Mitigating factor: youth and inexperience.

10. Jahirul Islam: 2.5. Temperament and shot selection issues. Mitigating factor: youth and inexperience.

11. Imtiaz Hossain: 2.5 since NCL 2007-2008. Dramatic improvement since NCL 2006-2007. Surpassed Golam Rahman as the primary opener for Sylhet because of those improvements. Compact player capable of playing sensible strokes. Mitigating factor: youth and inexperience.

12. Nafees Iqbal: 2.5, needs a page or two from his brothers book of improvement. Looks great in patches before the demons cloud his mind. Still sees the new ball early unlike most Bangladeshi batsmen. Mitigating factor: transition issues and temperament.

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13. Mehrab Hossain Jr: 2.25, loses focus after playing a good stroke. Other than that, he is improving every year and is where he should be. Very compact player, maybe a good candidate for #3 in his late 20s, provided he improves some of his stroke play. Mitigating factor: youth and inexperience.

14. Farhad Reza: 2.25, always a clean hitter of the ball, he continues to improve and contribute to his team. Mitigating factor: youth, inexperience and tendency to play too many lofted shots.

15. Ghazi Salahuddin: 2.25, not a good NCL 2007-2008, but I expect him to bounce back. Sees the quicker ones early but has issues with short deliveries. He cannot play off the back foot comfortably. Mitigating factor: footwork.

16. Golam Rahman: 2.25-, see Ghazi Salahuddin.

17. Golam Mabud: 2.25, excellent temperament, other than that, see Ghazi Salahuddin.

18. Dhiman Ghosh: 2.25, stand-up straight batting stance with good stroke play. He needs to be more compact defensively and avoid the sudden urge to play across the line. Excellent positional keeper. His height is an asset both with the short ball and his keeping. He was considered the inevitable replacement for Pilot before Mushy burst into the scene, and is probably the best keeper in the country right now alongside Pilot and Shahin Hossain. Mitigating factor: some footwork issues and temperament.

19. Shakib Al Hasan: 2.25, he needs to become a cleaner hitter of the ball. Mitigating factor: footwork.

20. Mushfiqur Rahim: 2.25+, backlift issues also noticed by Coach Siddons. Once he corrects that, we’ll see better batting, especially stroke play from him Inshallah, especially on sporting wickets. Amazing temperament and enthusiasm for the sport. Mitigating factor: doesn’t pick up genuine pace well, has issues with quality swing and movement away from his range of comfort, being short, he needs to learn to time his hooks better and more safely, has confidence issues under pressure.

21. Ehsanul Haque: 2.25, sensible batsman with good temperament. Mitigating factor: footwork issues and limited stroke play.

22. Nayeem Islam: 2.25+, he’s a good stroke player who needs to improve his footwork. Mitigating factor: youth, inexperience, footwork and temperament.

23. Abul Bashar: 2.25, sensible all-rounder in the Rana-mould and the best fielder in the NCL alongside Alok Kapali. Technically better than Mosharraf Hossain Rubel IMHO. Mitigating factor: limited stroke play and exposure.

24. Nazmul Hossain Milon: 2.25+, much improved this season overall despite that stellar knock last season with Dhaka. Good to see him finding himself with his fielding again. He is more talented than Farhad Reza and I expect him to give Farhad a good run for his money in a couple of years if he can continue to improve. Mitigating factor: youth, inexperience and temperament.

25. Mosharraf Hossain Rubel: 2.25-, see Abul Bashar without the fielding. Needs to improve his footwork and on side play. I don’t see him getting into an already SLA heavy national side irrespective of the numbers he may post. Neither his batting nor his bowling offers anything special. As an all-rounder, he is nowhere near Shakib or Razzak for that matter, and bowling-wise, both Rafique and Enam are miles ahead of him. Kids like Tarikul Islam and especially Saju Datta also offer more from what I’ve seen and future may belong to them. Mitigating factor: limited stroke play and footwork.

The 2s: Mohammad Nazimuddin, Mohammad Mahmudullah Riyad, Faisal Hossain.
The 1.75s: Rajin Saleh, Tushar Imran, Hannan Sarkar.
The 1 to 1.5s: Kazi Habibul Bashar (since 2007 in particular, just take a look at his last 50 at bat, both International and domestic), Javed Omar, Mushfiqur Rahman Babu and countless others.

Zunaid
January 18, 2008, 12:18 AM
Quite comprehensive in your ranking.

This questions reminds me of a post of mine from some time back:

World Class, Test Class and Match winners (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=4233&highlight=world+class)

I was wondering if we have any?

But first, my definitions:

World class: A player who could walk into or be seriously considered for a World first/second string team. Dravid (IND) would walk in and Inzy (PAK) would be a strong contender.

Test Class: A solid test player who would be a contender to play for the stronger teams - perhaps in the top 50 in his art. Sarwan (WI) is test class but Matsikenyeri (ZIM) isn't.

Match winner: Someone who can single handidly change the course of the game. Consider Streak (ZIM), or Harmison (ENG) or almost any one from AUS.

The answer to the first and third is easy - we don't have any. No, SUjon doesn't count.

Test Class? Perhaps a few.

Bashar and Rafique no doubt.

The following are knocking on the doors if not already there:

Rajin, Ashraful, Rana, Mushfique and Masree.

Too early to tell of Enamul Jr, Nafees and some of the other youngsters nipping at the heels of the seniors..

What thoughts?

- Z

And followed up with:

I would like to add one more category.

Stalwarts - mr dependable; there for you; doesn't have to be world/test class nor does he have to be a match winner, but he is there; solid..

My vote goes to Pilot as the first Mr. Stalwart of Bangladesh. Rafique, Rana, Rajin and Mushfique are the other contenders.

- Z


That was March of 2004. Interesting how water flows under the bridge! Mushfique?!?

Sohel
January 18, 2008, 12:35 AM
Excellent dig Dr. Z, couldn't agree with you more.

Test bowling-wise, Rafique is the only test-class I see with Mashrafe, Rajib and Enam (great bowling but no wickets from what I've seen in the first test) coming close. The sooner Mashrafe and Rajib can cut down on the customary loose delivery every over and give us 6 good ones in a row, the sooner they can be test class as they'll learn to bowl good long spells in a row as well. Dollar Mahmud is expected to well also and I haven't given up on Sajid yet. I think Alok with enough exposure can also be an effective, wicket-taking test-class bowler for us. I'm expecting our younger guns, especially Shubhashish Roy, Rubel Hossain, Suman Saha and Saju Datta to take us beyond test-class in the future. Better tracks for the pacers will go a long way. Saju Datta is my pick for for the test if not world-class Bangladeshi SLA of the future.

ODI slash T20 bowling-wise, I feel both Rasel and especially Razzak are world class. I have enough faith in both to feel that they can be test-class before too long. Razzak can become world-class once he learns to generate more revs and turn the ball better. His "scripting", flight and pace variations, though not quite the same class as Rafique or Enam in the longer versions, have visibly improved from what I've seen in the NCL.

Off topic as a close follower of Zimbabwe cricket: -

1. Matsekinyeri = "their" Aftab?
2. Zunaed = "our" Sibanda?
3. Masakazda = "their" Tamim (since NCL 2007-2008)?

Sohel
January 18, 2008, 02:43 AM
Last word: this is the time to support Coach Siddons with the job he has been hired to do. After years of stagnation and myopic delusions with regards to our cricket infrastructure, arbitrary and revolving door selection, and defeatist reliance on stop gap measures, we can perhaps now look forward a side which can truly justify our status as a test playing nation in 2 years, become somewhat competitive in 5, and a good side in about 10 years. Anything more is a bonus and anything less should be unacceptable.

So, let's do ourselves a favor and be patient as our cricket culture continues to evolve and produce better players for the highest level. Think "process" as opposed to "event", no matter how much it hurts.

Shaan
January 18, 2008, 03:40 AM
Nicely put Sohel bai..

RazabQ
January 18, 2008, 03:59 AM
Razzak can become world-class once he learns to generate more revs and turn the ball better. His "scripting", flight and pace variations, though not quite the same class as Rafique or Enam in the longer versions, have visibly improved from what I've seen in the NCL.Sohel, can't agree with you on this point. Spinners don't become bigger turners of the ball with age. If anything, it's the other way around as constant wear and tear on the spinning index finger reduces your ability to give the ball a fizz - especially if one's a finger-spinner. Witness the loss of potency by Harbhajan, Saqlain or Raju to give you some examples. Does this mean that Razzak can't become a test bowler? No. Kumble has just taken 600 wickets without being a big turner. If Razzak can indeed keep on improving his "scripting", eliminate the tendency to spear that one delivery on to the leg stump every over, and develop a drifter/doosra without further messing up his non-clean action, then sure he can indeed be world-class. I do think in ODIs he'd be able to compete for a spot in the Windies, England, Pakistan the Australian (yes you heard that right) sides.

On a different note, I was very impressed with Shahadat's continuous development in NZ. While he still tends to overuse the bouncers, his improving accuracy in Tests and nascent outswinger to go with his old-stand by off-cutter bodes well for us. If only the kid would go on a high-protein diet and do a Dilhara ....

Seriously, we should find out about the Lankan weight programs, even Vaasie sports some serious guns in his twilight.

Sohel
January 18, 2008, 04:08 AM
Sohel, can't agree with you on this point. Spinners don't become bigger turners of the ball with age. If anything, it's the other way around as constant wear and tear on the spinning index finger reduces your ability to give the ball a fizz - especially if one's a finger-spinner. Witness the loss of potency by Harbhajan, Saqlain or Raju to give you some examples. Does this mean that Razzak can't become a test bowler? No. Kumble has just taken 600 wickets without being a big turner. If Razzak can indeed keep on improving his "scripting", eliminate the tendency to spear that one delivery on to the leg stump every over, and develop a drifter/doosra without further messing up his non-clean action, then sure he can indeed be world-class. I do think in ODIs he'd be able to compete for a spot in the Windies, England, Pakistan the Australian (yes you heard that right) sides.

Right you are... :)

I had more coaching, not really time, in mind for Razzak. His scripting will improve with time no doubt, but whether it becomes as lethal as Kumble's is yet to be seen. He's still young enough to use the time to discover what else he has to offer and a good bowling coach specializing in spin bowling, whoever he may be, can help him.

On a different note, I was very impressed with Shahadat's continuous development in NZ. While he still tends to overuse the bouncers, his improving accuracy in Tests and nascent outswinger to go with his old-stand by off-cutter bodes well for us. If only the kid would go on a high-protein diet and do a Dilhara ....

Seriously, we should find out about the Lankan weight programs, even Vaasie sports some serious guns in his twilight.

Agree completely. Strength training with the right type of "zone diet" will help him get better as a strike bowler. He has been finding his line a tad bit earlier than usual, and his pace will improve without compromising that accuracy if he stops collapsing his front leg IMHO. Tait does that without such a compromise but Rajib ain't no Tait, sligshot or no slingshot.

abu2abu
January 18, 2008, 04:42 AM
What's the difference between "world class" and "international class"?

I'm sure the words "world" and "international" essentially mean the same thing...

zareen
January 18, 2008, 05:23 AM
Yes, I know most of you are thinking "al Furqaan and the word 'qualitative' do not mix...where is our statistics-obsessed junkie? who is is this imposter."

Nonetheless re-reading one of Sohel bhai's posts from around New Years, I thought we should rank our players in various categories to better ascertain where we need to improve at. This is a thread, where I will start off, but will undoubtedly admit that Sohel bhai, Beamer bhai, Razab bhai, and Eshen bhai will know much better than me. So guys, please correct me here.

Anyways this categories are qualitative simply because there exists no numerical way to analyze them. Nonetheless I think it is just as important as my WEIR ratings, and actually more so.

The categories for batting are: technique, temperement, stroke play, shot selection, footwork, and versatility. By versatility I mean, can a batsmen adjust to situations and play accordingly (e.g playing anchoring role or launch a caclulated assault on bowling attack).

For bowling I choose: striking ability (ability to take wickets), economy, intelligence, workhorse (a bowler who can reliably bowl long spells if need be).

For fielding we have: athleticism (ground fielding), catching, slip fielding, throwing (at stumps).

For keeping: awareness, athleticism, dismismal ability

It may be a good idea to rate the players on a 1-10 qualitative scale.
Player.................Rating (out of 10)............................Class designation

.........................Test...........ODI

Batting Technique

Ashraful................10.............10......... ......................world class
Rahim..................8.5............8.5......... ......................world class
Aftab...................8...............8......... .......................world class
Tamim.................7................7.......... ......................test class
* N Iqbal...............7................7............ .....................test class
Mehrab Jr.............6.5..............6.5............... ................int'l class
Farhad.................6.5..............6.5....... ........................int'l class
Junaid.................6................6......... .........................int'l class
Rajin...................6................6........ .........................int'l class
S Nafees...............5.5.............5.5.......... .....................int'l class
Javed..................5................5......... .........................crap class
Mashrafee.............5................5.......... .......................crap class
Pilot....................5................5....... ..........................crap class
Bashar.................4................4......... .........................crap class
Sakib...................4...............4......... .........................crap class
Alok....................?................?........ ..........................??????
Tushar.................4................4......... .........................crap class

Batting Temperament

M Rahim..............9.................9............ ......................world class
Ashraful...............8.5..............8.5....... .........................world class
S Nafees..............8.5...............8.5......... .......................world class
N Iqbal................8..................8......... .........................world class
Rajin..................8..................8....... ...........................world class
Sakib..................8..................8....... ...........................world class
Pilot...................8..................8...... .............................world class
Mehrab Jr.............8..................8............... ....................world class
Alok...................7..................7....... .............................test class
Javed.................6.5................6.5...... ...........................int'l class
Bashar................5.5................5.5...... ...........................int'l class
Mashrafee............5.5.................5.5...... ..........................int'l class
Aftab.................4...................4....... ............................crap class

Stroke Play
Ashraful.............10..................10....... ............................world class
Aftab.................9...................9....... .............................world class
* Alok.................8...................8........ ............................world class
S Nafees.............7...................7.......... ...........................test class
M Rahim.............7...................7........... ..........................test class
Tamim...............6...................6......... ............................int'l class
* N Iqbal..............6...................6.......... ..........................int'l class
Bashar................5...................5....... .............................crap class
Pilot..................5...................5...... ...............................crap class
Javed................3...................3........ ..............................crap class
Junaid...............?.....................?...... ...............................?????

Shot selection

M Rahim.............9..................9............ ..........................world class
Tamim...............7.5...............7.5......... ...........................test class
S Nafees.............6..................6........... ...........................int'l class
Junaid...............6...................6........ ..............................int'l class
Sakib................5.5.................5.5...... ..............................int'l class
Pilot.................5.5.................5.5..... ...............................int'l class
Ashraful.............5...................5........ ..............................crap class
Bashar...............5...................5........ ..............................crap class
Javed................5...................5........ ..............................crap class
Alok.................?.....................?...... ................................?????
Tushar..............4...................4......... ...............................crap class
N Iqbal..............4...................4.......... ..............................crap class
Aftab................2..................2......... ................................very crap class

Footwork

Ashraful.............9..................9......... ................................world class
M Rahim............8..................8............. .............................world class
Rajin................7..................7......... .................................test class
S Nafees............5...................5........... ..............................crap class
Sakib...............4....................4........ .................................crap class

Versatility

Ashraful............10..................10........ ................................world class
Aftab................10.................10........ ................................world class
S Nafees.............7..................7........... ...............................test class
M Rahim.............6.5...............6.5........... .............................test class

Bowling strike ability

Shahadat............9...................6......... ................................world class
Mashrafee...........7...................7......... ................................test class
Rasel.................6.5................7.5...... ..................................test class
Sajid.................6.5................?........ ................................test class
Rafique..............6.5..................5....... .................................test class
Enam.................5..................5......... ..................................crap class
Tapash...............3..................6......... ..................................crap class

Economy

Rafique...............9.5...............8......... ................................world class
Sakib..................9.................8........ ..................................world class
Enam..................8.................8......... ..................................world class
Mashrafee............7..................7......... .................................test class
Rasel..................6.5................8.5..... ...................................test class
Sajid..................5.5................?....... ....................................int'l class
Shahadat.............3...................6........ ..................................crap class
Razzak................3...................10...... ..................................crap/wrld

Intelligence

Rafique..............10..................8........ ..................................world class
Rasel.................7...................10...... ...................................world class
Mashrafee...........7...................6......... .................................test class
Shahadat............7...................6......... .................................test class
Sajid.................7...................?....... ....................................test class
Enam................6....................?........ ...................................int'l class

Workhorse

Rafique.............10............................ ...................................world class
Shahadat...........10............................. ...................................world class
Enam................10............................ ...................................world class
Mashrafee...........8.5........................... ..................................world class
Sakib.................8........................... ....................................world class
Rasel.................7........................... .....................................test class
Sajid.................?........................... ......................................

Fielding athleticism

Aftab...............10............................ ...................................world class
Rajin...............10............................ ....................................world class
Tamim..............8.............................. ..................................world class
Ashraful.............7............................ ....................................test class
Sakib................7............................ ....................................test class
Farhad..............7............................. ....................................test class
Mashrafee..........6.............................. ...................................test class
Javed...............6............................. .....................................test class
Bashar..............5............................. .....................................crap class
S Nafees............5............................... ...................................crap class

Catching

Aftab...............10............................ ....................................world class
Rajin................9............................ .....................................world class
Tamim..............9.............................. ...................................world class
Ashraful............7.5........................... ....................................test class
Sakib...............7.5........................... ....................................test class
Javed..............7.............................. ....................................test class
S Nafees...........5................................ ..................................crap
Bashar.............5.............................. .....................................crap class

Slip Fielding

Junaid............8............................... ....................................world class
Rest..............1-3................................................. ..............hi crap class

Throwing (at stumps)

Tamim............7................................ .................................test class
Aftab..............7.............................. ...................................test class
Ashraful...........6.............................. ...................................test class

Keeping awareness

Pilot..............9.............................. ....................................world class
M Rahim.........6................................... ...............................test class

Keeping athleticism

M Rahim..........10................................. ...............................world class
Pilot...............7............................. .....................................test class

Keeping Dismissal

Pilot...............7............................. .....................................test class
M Rahim..........6.................................. ................................int'l class

/:)farhad & mehrab do not play better than mashrafee,they should get less than him.:-|

zareen
January 18, 2008, 05:24 AM
this think need some change

Sohel
January 18, 2008, 05:28 AM
What's the difference between "world class" and "international class"?

I'm sure the words "world" and "international" essentially mean the same thing...

I'm just guessing here: -

1) "International" class = belongs in International cricket, all shelves.
2) "World" class = the top shelf in International cricket.

zahid
January 18, 2008, 06:03 AM
So, Mushfique is best so far..lol

Amio tai vabtesilam. Faltu Thread.

Arnab
January 18, 2008, 06:12 AM
I just glanced through the first post. There's way too many "world class"-es in there. That's impossible.

Russell2k7
January 18, 2008, 07:46 AM
As of yet, none of them belongs to "world class" especially in test.

lamisa
January 18, 2008, 11:13 AM
I don't mean to be rude nor offensive but this method of ranking seems highly biased and without good cricketing logic...I mean according to your ranking, Bashar, Sakib and Tushar Imran all have worst batting technique than Mashrafee. Rajin, Nafees Iqbal have some of the best techniques going around in Bd yet they are ranked lower than Rahim? Rahim's technique was good in England when he moved his feet and got behind the line of the ball but his technique of late against the swinging ball is very suspect. He has yet to prove he can play well off the backfoot and often gets out behind the wicket which is not a sign of a good technically sound player. You rated Rahim's strokeplay higher than Tamim! Shot selection should be judged based on the length and line of the ball and not necessarily shot execution. Based in the shot selection criteria I would rate Ashraful the best. He always doesn't succeed at excuting pull shots or drives but he most often chooses the right shot to play as compared with his teammates. Fielding...well I have seen Ashraful drop some sitters. Generally speaking he's decent. Best fielder in Bd is Aftab Ahmad, followed by Rajin, Alok, the 2 Iqbals, Mash, Shakib, Tapash, and even JO. Bowling well, frankly speaking none of our bowlers stand out except maybe for Mashrafee and Razzak in ODIs. Rest are unproven like many of the theories that I have about a lot of things.

no rasel?:-P

al Furqaan
January 18, 2008, 11:21 AM
I just glanced through the first post. There's way too many "world class"-es in there. That's impossible.

Big A,

there is a difference in saying that mushy has class level of technique (his only flaw is his high back lift, should he rectify that, his technique will prolly be better than ash's) and saying that mushy is a class level batsmen.

to clarify. this is what our overall batsman ratings would look like

ash...............5...........crap level
aftab.............4...........crap level
rajin..............3.5........crap level
SN................4............crap level

and all the rest would be lower than than that even, with JO, bashar, tushar, occupying the basement with 1s across the board.

as another example, i have a world class off-spinners run up. that doesn't mean that i am a world class off spinner.

of saying that i put my helmet on as well as lara can...but doesn't mean i am the same class of batsman as lara.

abu2abu
January 18, 2008, 11:49 AM
as another example, i have a world class off-spinners run up. that doesn't mean that i am a world class off spinner.

of saying that i put my helmet on as well as lara can...but doesn't mean i am the same class of batsman as lara.

With respect that's nonsense. Putting your helmet on like lara or having a run up like Murali has nothing to do with how you actually bat or bowl! Why make comparisons on such silly factors? It's about as meaningless as saying I have the same sense of humour as freddie flintoff!

Spitfire_x86
January 18, 2008, 01:05 PM
I wouldn't make distinction between international class and test class, if we're discussing about players from a test playing country.

World Class = Can walk into the playing XI of almost any international team

International class = Good enough to play at this level (which means he wouldn't be a
misfit in many international squads)

Without pretending to be an expert in the technical details of the game, my rankings are:

Batting (Potential / Current) [??? = too few matches to judge]

Tamim: International to International+ / ???
Zunaid: ??? / ???
Ashraful: International+ to World / International-
Aftab: International to International+/ International--
SN: International / International--
Sakib: International-- to International- / International--
Mushfiq: International / International--
Farhad: International- to International / International--
Mashrafee: No comments

Baseline: Tamim's batting in the NZ ODI/Test series ranks as a good series of an International class batsman

Bowling

Mashrafee: International to Intenrational+ / International-
Shahadat: International to International+ / Internaitonal-
Rasel: International to International+ / International (International+ in ODI)
Razzak: International to International+ / Interntaional+ (ODIs only)
Enamul: International to International+ / International--

Baseline: Mashrafee's bowling in the the NZ test series ranks as International class.

So, if all those players could perform to their potential, we would have a competitive mid-range side, not the

Isnaad
January 18, 2008, 05:24 PM
Impressive. Here is my kind of ranking.
ODI Batting ODI Bowling Test Batting Test Bowling
1.Mohammad Ashraful- 83.75 51.77 78.98 38.93
2.Aftab Ahmed- 71.55 52.01 56.18 32.22
3.Tamim Iqbal- 80.85 - 72.25 -
4.Habibul Bashar- 60.02 - 63.35 -
5.Mashrafe Mortaza- 53.36 79.65 44.44 66.66

This is just a replica. I did not include many good players. But if you like it reply.

scoilaheez
January 18, 2008, 06:33 PM
Interesting thoughts, but dont agree with some of your ratings. I still think you are overrating Ash's temperament and technique. Also, the reality is that we have very few world class players. Ash is possibly one and Mash maybe another. Otherwise, hardly any of our players would make a single test playing team.

al Furqaan
January 18, 2008, 07:37 PM
defintely agree with spitty's latest post on the bowling front.

i would disagree with batting slightly.

al Furqaan
January 18, 2008, 07:41 PM
Interesting thoughts, but dont agree with some of your ratings. I still think you are overrating Ash's temperament and technique. Also, the reality is that we have very few world class players. Ash is possibly one and Mash maybe another. Otherwise, hardly any of our players would make a single test playing team.

shahadat is just about as good as mash right now. given their ages and experiences, i would say mash is about as good as he will ever be, which is decent. he's not world class, but int'l class.

rajib on the other hand has the potential to leave mash far behind. he is pure energy. he will never tidy with the ball, but has the ability to crank out wickets, especially in middle and tail orders.

the pair of them, should they be supported by a good total on the board, will form a very decent tandem in Test cricket. they won't wasim and waqar, but they will be the best fast bowling pair from BD in the next several decades.

with the likes of rasel, sajid, dollar, zia backing them up, we might be in a decent position.

al Furqaan
January 18, 2008, 07:44 PM
With respect that's nonsense. Putting your helmet on like lara or having a run up like Murali has nothing to do with how you actually bat or bowl! Why make comparisons on such silly factors? It's about as meaningless as saying I have the same sense of humour as freddie flintoff!

exactly, yet thats the same type of nonsense spewed by most self-loathing posters on this thread who cannot differentiate between overall batting ability and something as acute as batting stroke play. that ridiculous hyperbole from me was a jab at exactly that inability to distinguish between a part and the whole. that one can be world class in a single part, yet still be crap class in the whole.

djnaved
January 19, 2008, 12:15 AM
I think besides Mashrafee and Shahdat, Said Rasel is the main strike bowler of bangladesh. He's a slow bowler, but can frustrate batsman and take wickets. Mash and Shahdat are basically test bowlers. They can continuesly bowl in one line with the same sim. However, you have change the sim angle, and bowl with a variation. That what Rasel does.

Beamer
January 19, 2008, 12:54 AM
Interesting Asad. I don't have any formula to grade the class of a particular player. Its a subjective matter. Visual aid is a must to judge if you have the eyes. I am no Jamie Siddons, however, class not always translate into numbers and numbers/stats are the things that matter in the end, though most classy players end up with good stats because of the class/talent. Hard work, determination, mental strength combined with class and the stats at the end, define the player. All of our young players that you cite are still in the first or second chapter of their respective books. Its the end of the book that matters. Some do give you a hint of class, just as the first few pages of a good book will tell you that it is going to be a good read. Some has no class at all and a bad book will tell you that after a few pages too. You just throw it away and go with your hunch. But, with the good book, you hope the pages are not missing in the following chapters. I feel the same way with those good players! Hope for a great end because the first few lines draw your interest.

Beamer
January 19, 2008, 01:05 AM
I think there is only one player that has world class 'potential' and gives you a glimpse of it sometimes. The whole world knows about it, acknowledges it and laments as we do, why the numbers are not backing it up. He is the only player that catches the attention of opposition and they usually devise a plan to get his scalp. Now, who is it?

cricket_king
January 19, 2008, 02:28 AM
Rahim is ranked extremely high. He's pretty gumbie in my opinion...I don't see how there's any chance of him being world class. This obviously wasn't based on performance.

Ishtylish cricketer
January 19, 2008, 11:50 AM
Big A,
there is a difference in saying that mushy has class level of technique (his only flaw is his high back lift, should he rectify that, his technique will prolly be better than ash's) and saying that mushy is a class level batsmen.

Yeah...technique is necessary to see off good deliveries. If you can get runs off good balls as well you're great. Technique provides you with high percentage shots that's all. Best players in the world are special in that they have the best basic techniques to survive but they can also improvise, dominate passage of play and win games for you. Ash is that mould. Rahim can bat no doubt that but he's not someone who can change a game and in ODIs especially you need a keeper who can do that. If he's being brought in as a technically sound player who can play long inning and he's not doing that then he should be dropped. In his place maybe with a dasher luck permitting it can be benefial for the team. If you get someone making nothing and someone who will at least give the bat a good swing and at least get you 20-30 in quick in ODIs that could be valuable. In tests he doesn't runs either so there's no point in sticking with him at this point. If anything it will ruin is confidence. Sangakkara is the only exception to the recent hunt of "fast scoring keepers" but currently he's probably in the top 10 as a batsman. Need to drop Mushy now so he gains his confidence back and bring back Pilot or give the much talked about Shahin Hossain a chance or perhaps even to Dhiman.

bdchamp20
January 20, 2008, 07:21 AM
umm..its pretty good but u shouldntve used words like crap class or world-class if Rahim was world class-batsman overall he wouldnt be getting ducks in NZ..but overall job well done Al-Furqaan