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Nafi
January 19, 2008, 04:10 PM
Many questions are raised here.

1/ Will Rafique make a return to the test side, even after all the arguments with BCB. Much needed player IMO, invaluable experience, proven test player (tho needs to practice catching off his own bowling), close to 100 test wickets, and very strong against SA.

2/ Will we go with a spin-heavy attack, or should we stick with our using all three seamers, the line and length of left armed Syed Rasel, the pace and seam movement of Mashrafe Mortaza and the aggressive short lengths of Shahadat (a very strong fast bowling formula), but since these wickets arent seamer friendly. Its more likely we will only play with two pacers. So which two pacers will we use, if this is the case.

3/ Should we try to get an debut specialist leg / off-spinner into the team to add variation, we only have Left arm Orthodox spin and the part time leg spin of Ashraful. Should someone like Mahmudullah RIyad be given the test cap to add more variation to our spinning attack, or should we no new faces in the test side.

4/ So whats your bowling attack against SA here's mine

Mashrafee Mortaza
Shahadat Hossain/Syed rasel
Enamul Haque
Mohammed Rafique
Abdur Razzak
Sakib Al Hasan (all rounder)

Kabir
January 19, 2008, 04:16 PM
SA just can't play spin. And that's what we should make the most out of.

Easy answer. But for BCB, this is like "oh my God...it's SA...what should we do? Lets send some new folks, and see if they can be one of those jodi laigga jay type of players".

BanCricFan
January 19, 2008, 04:18 PM
Shahadat
Mashrafi
Rafiq
Enamul
Sakib/Alok

Rasel is probably still unfit. I would have picked Shahadat anyway.

Nafi
January 19, 2008, 04:23 PM
Syed Rasel has plenty of time to recover, and really I think the low wickets are more suited to Rasel, Shahadat will probably end up giving short balls as long hops easily dispatched to the boundary.

Slater582
January 19, 2008, 04:27 PM
SA just can't play spin.

They did pretty well against Pakistan.

Nafi
January 19, 2008, 04:31 PM
Pakistan v South Africa 2007/08 season

Played at National Stadium, Karachi, on 1,2,3,4,5 October 2007 (5-day match)

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/299004.html

Bowling card

1st innings

Bowling O M R W Econ
Mohammad Asif 26 6 83 1 3.19
Umar Gul 21.3 6 60 2 2.79 (2nb)
Danish Kaneria 36 3 124 2 3.44
Abdur Rehman 31 3 105 4 3.38
Shoaib Malik 8 2 31 0 3.87 (2nb)
Mohammad Hafeez 14 0 40 1 2.85

2nd Innings

Bowling O M R W Econ
Mohammad Asif 6 1 14 0 2.33
Umar Gul 12 1 35 0 2.91
Rehman 38 6 105 4 2.76
Kaneria 28 3 85 3 3.03
Hafeez 5 0 13 0 2.60

In the second test match again spinners did the most damage with Kaneria getting a 5 wicket haul, even though SA declared with 4 wickets left

Seems like spinners did lots of damage, especially Abdur Rehman their Slow left Armer.


Kaneria - Leg break
Abdur Rehman - Slow left arm orthodox
Hafeez - Off - break

habfreak
January 19, 2008, 04:35 PM
in a perfect world...we will make a seamer friendly wicket overnight and go with all 3 seamers. I stromgly believe thast the only catagory we can claim to be worl class.
what will happen is two seamers and a bunch of below average slow left armers bowling on a dead wicket...SA scoring 350, and our golden boys 150 all out and 250 in the second innings...barely avoiding innings defeats!

Nafi
January 19, 2008, 04:35 PM
They did pretty well against Pakistan.

only because pakistan batting sucked frankly, and really they only have one experienced good quality spinner, Kaneria

Nafi
January 19, 2008, 04:38 PM
in a perfect world...we will make a seamer friendly wicket overnight and go with all 3 seamers. I stromgly believe thast the only catagory we can claim to be worl class.
what will happen is two seamers and a bunch of below average slow left armers bowling on a dead wicket...SA scoring 350, and our golden boys 150 all out and 250 in the second innings...barely avoiding innings defeats!

yeh I agree we will never win on a dead wicket, because our bowling becomes toothless and the opposition will put up huge scores, that our boys simply cant compete with.

AsifTheManRahman
January 19, 2008, 04:39 PM
I would pick from the following:

Mashrafe
Shahadat
Rasel
Sajed
Rafique
Razzak
Enamul
Shakib

Seeing that we're going to be playing on dust bowls, I'd go with two pacers only, with Mashrafe and either one of Shahadat or Rasel in the first eleven. They would then be followed by Rafique, Enamul/Razzak and Shakib. Sajed might have to sit out or even be left out of the squad for this series.

Nafi
January 19, 2008, 04:46 PM
BTW can any of you guys please explain to me exactly how a dust bowl pitch reacts (precisely) and what kind of swing do you get in BD.

al Furqaan
January 19, 2008, 04:48 PM
i think it has to be mash and shahadat...rasel plays only if we play 3 quicks, since he can't bowl with the older ball. perhaps sajid can even take his spot in the test lineup.

i hope we play on dustbowls, but knowing our incompetence, just watch the curators prepare the most seaming bouncy track in BD ever so that steyn kills us, whereas they had crap wickets for the NCL.

al Furqaan
January 19, 2008, 04:49 PM
BTW can any of you guys please explain to me exactly how a dust bowl pitch reacts (precisely) and what kind of swing do you get in BD.

i believe in general ball only swings for the first hour or so in subcontinent conditions. i'm no expert...but in teh winter we have the dew factor, so early morning there might be some really swinging conditions.

Slater582
January 19, 2008, 05:01 PM
Nafi

Kaneria averaged 42.2 per wicket in that series.

Rehman averaged a decent 32.

Hafeez one wicket for 53, Malik didn't take a wicket.

This article is a good read, I think.

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/pakvrsa/content/story/315305.html

BD-Shardul
January 19, 2008, 05:05 PM
[বাংলা]ভাইজানেরা, আপনারা মাইনকার চিপা চিনেন? [/বাংলা]If we wanna create a [বাংলা]মাইনকার চিপা [/বাংলা]for SA, we should go with the following line up:

** indicates part time spinner
*** full time spinner

Tamim Iqbal
Rajin Saleh**
Mohammad Asharaful**
Alok Kapali**
Shakib Al Hasan**
Khaled Mashud
Mashrafe Mortaza
Shahadat Hossain
Syed Rasel
Enamul Haque***
Mohammad Rafique***

Since we are assuming that SA can't play spin at all, with this line up, দেখবেন খেলা শুরু না হতেই কাইত হয়ে গেছে SA :lol::lol::-D:-D:D:D

Nafi
January 19, 2008, 05:08 PM
I doubt the Pak pitches were spinner friendly in the first place

Miraz
January 19, 2008, 05:51 PM
Masri
Shahadat
Rafiq
Enamul
Shakib

I'd pick all of them.

Sylhet
January 19, 2008, 06:22 PM
The Best Combination against South Africa in Tests

Tamim Iqbal
Junaed Siddique
Mohd Ashraful
Shahriar Nafees
Aftab Ahmed
Shakib Al Hasan
Khaled Mashud
Mohd Rafique
Mashrafe
Shahadat
Enamul


Best Combination for ODI

First of All players need to learn to rotate strike. Atleast 3 singles in an over.

Tamim Iqbal
Junaed Siddique
Ashraful
Mushfiq Rahim (He should only be there for the sake of rotating strike)
Shakib Al Hasan ( Prioirity on rotating strikes only)
Aftab
Farhad Reza
Abdur Razzak
Mohd Rafique
Mashrafe
Rajib

Look, We need players at the end to hit and in the middle overs to rotate strike. Shakib and Rahim are not hard hitters, but they are good thinkers. Therefore it makes sense to put them in the middle order to rotate only. It will stop middle order collapse and we have hitters like aftab and Farhad reza to up the tempo at the end. I think this game plan is simple. Everyone will have an idea of what is required.

BanCricFan
January 19, 2008, 06:39 PM
A very warm welcome to you, Sylhet (nice nick)!

I would have the same Test team except Bashar plays. You cannot deprive him his well desreved swansong!

ODI- Nafees is our best ODI player by stats. It seems like his wretched form is almost behind him...so, he plays, too.
-----------------------------------------------------

Amra hokkol syleti

One World
January 19, 2008, 06:49 PM
How come this turned into a team selection thread from a bowling strategy decider? Go with spinners altogether. The bowlers should be:

Test - Mashrafe, Shahadat, Rafique, Some player in NCL Rafique mentioned
Then it has Ash, Shakib and medium pacers of Aftab (new Sujon)

ODI - Mashrafe, Rasel, Rafique, Razzak
Then we have Ash, Shakib, Aftab.

BD Tigers
January 19, 2008, 06:51 PM
My bowlers are

1. Mash 2. Shahadat 3. The Boss 4. Sakib (will play as more of a bowler)

The batsmen are:

1. Tamim 2. Zunaid 3. Bashar 4. ASh 5. Nafees 6. Rajin/Tusher 7. Pilot (wk)

Rifat
January 19, 2008, 07:28 PM
My bowlers are

1. Mash 2. Shahadat 3. The Boss 4. Sakib (will play as more of a bowler)

The batsmen are:

1. Tamim 2. Zunaid 3. Bashar 4. ASh 5. Nafees 6. Rajin/Tusher 7. Pilot (wk)

you still willing to include bashar?he is good as gone, play with 11 players, not 9 (including "golden boy" aside from keeping).


face it, we need to bat extremely well if even consider throwing them a challenge, i like this new Zunaed Sidddique kid, he should be given more exposure to ODI even though he failed to go beyond 20, but that's o.k. better luck next time :)


bowling... no change except if possible add Rasel, and if Rafique is willing to play and play solid, let him in,

Kapali?i want him as a batsmen allrounder just like sakib-al-hasan,his bowling needs improvement. battingwise he needs to be consistently successful at the international level.

i hope al-hasan finds his form, i still remeber his quote during world cup "Saqibul not in awe of protean bowlers" haha bangla "Ami south african bowler derke patta dei na"

time to JUSTIFY that statement :-D

kalpurush
January 20, 2008, 01:32 AM
Masri
Shahadat
Rafiq
Enamul
Shakib

I'd pick all of them.
Done!:D (if I were the selector!!)

tiger_army
January 20, 2008, 02:19 AM
rafiq
Enamul
Shakib

the way we distroyed them in WC

we need the gameplan

Eshen
January 20, 2008, 12:39 PM
only because pakistan batting sucked frankly, and really they only have one experienced good quality spinner, Kaneria
Bangladesh batsmen may suck even more. Remember how much they struggled against SA spinners on low bouncy wickets during the last tour ?

Only test class spinner we have is Rafique and even he is not in form currently.

Whatever bowling attack they go with, I don't want to see a low bouncy and lifeless pitch, where our bowlers struggle to take wickets, for this series.

arafath79
January 20, 2008, 05:03 PM
Playing three spiners won't be good idea this time because South Africa played well against the Paki spinners. Bd should play on good sporting wicket where the pacrers will get support and good batsman will be able to play big innings. Making flat batting track will not help Bangladesh to play well against SA. Becasue SA will take the full advantage of the batting track and score huge total and put BD under pressure. Remember how BD bowlers got hammered against NZ in the last ODI !!!

Well the threat is about the bowling attack agains SA in the test series but I think BD should concentrate playing 3 pacres in both ODI and test in a good sporting wicket.

arafath79
January 20, 2008, 05:06 PM
They did pretty well against Pakistan.

Yes, I agree with u and I am sure SA did home work to play well against BD left arm spinners this time.

arafath79
January 20, 2008, 05:16 PM
only because pakistan batting sucked frankly, and really they only have one experienced good quality spinner, Kaneria

Obviously Kaneria is a good quality spinner but they have Sohaib Malik who is also a good off spinner and a genuine all rounder. Mohammad Hafiz is also a handy spinner who can support the other spinner like our Shakib is doing. :)

My point is that who is specialist spinner of BD this time ? The answer is No body !!!! Rafique is out of form and he is almost at the end of his cricket career. The remaining spinner is Enamul Jnr ?? How many wickets he got in his last 3,4 games ?? NONE !!! He looked like an ordinary bowler against the big guns. He did well only against weak and crap Zimbabwe. Razzak is a good bowler only in ODI macthes, not in test cricket. But I do believe Mashrafe, Shahadat and Rasel are good pace bowlers and they can do well against any strong opposition. That's why they have to make good sporting wickets not just flat batting track.

Eshen
January 20, 2008, 05:31 PM
In the Pak-SA series, the pitches were so low bouncy that bowlers had to bowl at fuller lengths almost always and thus they became predictable.

I am all for grass less pitches where spinners will be able to turn the ball and pacers will be able to cut, but the pitch is not necessarily low bouncy.

addu
January 20, 2008, 06:18 PM
Hi! I Just joined Banglacricket.com. I have been impressed. I have been following this site for awhile now, without being a member.. Its a great site for people with the same kinda interest. I really love everyone's opinion... Lots of different opinions and thoughts... I guess i should say something about this thread now... umm.. In my view South Africa is probably the 2nd if not the 3rd best team in the world at this moment. Spin, pace doesn't matter, they are good against everything. Its bit naive to say that they cant play spin. Although in the world cup we destroyed them with spin. A good team like SA will try never to be in that situation again. When they went to Pakistan, they knew they were going to face spin and they prepared them selves for it. we should prepare ourselves for the worst..

Shobha
January 20, 2008, 06:28 PM
Hi! I Just joined Banglacricket.com. I have been impressed. I have been following this site for awhile now, without being a member.. Its a great site for people with the same kinda interest. I really love everyone's opinion... Lots of different opinions and thoughts... I guess i should say something about this thread now... umm.. In my view South Africa is probably the 2nd if not the 3rd best team in the world at this moment. Spin, pace doesn't matter, they are good against everything. Its bit naive to say that they cant play spin. Although in the world cup we destroyed them with spin. A good team like SA will try never to be in that situation again. When they went to Pakistan, they knew they were going to face spin and they prepared them selves for it. we should prepare ourselves for the worst..

what a statement. good to see you begin with such charisma. welcome to bc bother:D

BD Tigers
January 20, 2008, 06:28 PM
you still willing to include bashar?he is good as gone, play with 11 players, not 9 (including "golden boy" aside from keeping).

yes I will still include in the XI. He still can play better than so called talented(?) players and hopefully Insha Allah he will play good in this series.

cricket_king
January 20, 2008, 10:20 PM
yes I will still include in the XI. He still can play better than so called talented(?) players and hopefully Insha Allah he will play good in this series.

Bhai, "Insha Allah" boila kono laab nai. Bashar is FINISHED. Why do people still insist on putting him in the team? Have you seen him play in the last year or so? :hairpull:

wiseshah
January 20, 2008, 10:33 PM
my test team

tamim
javed omar (junaed--3rd opener)
rajin (nazim uddin--replacement --one down)
ashraful
sakib
pilot
kapali /farhad reza
mashrafe
rafiq
shahadat (rasel)
enamul Jr

against south africa, we need good spin attack, i believe rafiq-enamul-sakib will do good job
pace by mashrafe and shahadat and additional bowler: kapali/farhad, ashraful, rajin, so it seems to me a balanced team

BD-Shardul
January 21, 2008, 02:14 AM
Hi! I Just joined Banglacricket.com. I have been impressed. I have been following this site for awhile now, without being a member.. Its a great site for people with the same kinda interest. I really love everyone's opinion... Lots of different opinions and thoughts... I guess i should say something about this thread now... umm.. In my view South Africa is probably the 2nd if not the 3rd best team in the world at this moment. Spin, pace doesn't matter, they are good against everything. Its bit naive to say that they cant play spin. Although in the world cup we destroyed them with spin. A good team like SA will try never to be in that situation again. When they went to Pakistan, they knew they were going to face spin and they prepared them selves for it. we should prepare ourselves for the worst..

Yep. Other teams do their homework before the match/series. But we do it during the match :D :-D

zainab
January 21, 2008, 04:40 PM
Quote/
A good team like SA will try never to be in that situation again. When they went to Pakistan, they knew they were going to face spin and they prepared them selves for it. we should prepare ourselves for the worst..

Quote/
Yep. Other teams do their homework before the match/series. But we do it during the match
__________________
So right you are ! I hope that Ash is doing his homework at the moment.

I feel that Bashar should be out of the team and if Rafique and the Board can mend their differences, then he should be in the test team. South Africa can play spin, forget about the World cup match, it has been nearly one year since then, and in that time SA has beaten Zimbabwe, Pakistan, New Zealand and now they are thrashing the Windians. They will tour BD with the same mindset, also they do their homework to know exactly what BD weaknesses are and will definitely take advantage of it.

damalChele
January 21, 2008, 06:03 PM
Yep. Other teams do their homework before the match/series. But we do it during the match :D :-D

:floor:

BD Tigers
January 21, 2008, 07:50 PM
Bhai, "Insha Allah" boila kono laab nai. Bashar is FINISHED. Why do people still insist on putting him in the team? Have you seen him play in the last year or so? :hairpull:

that's what everybody said abt Ganguly too. I am not comparing Ganguly with Bashar here talent wise. But in our team, "who has some brain" wise I still think he shud be playing in the test not odi at least in this series.

and to your answer the Q, yes I did see him batting on TV last one year.

DJ Sahastra
January 21, 2008, 08:12 PM
Prepare a track that assists spin (Almost dead for the pace bowlers) and pack the team with 3 spinners and a Pace bowlers.

I wonder why this is never tried?

cricket_king
January 21, 2008, 08:18 PM
that's what everybody said abt Ganguly too. I am not comparing Ganguly with Bashar here talent wise. But in our team, "who has some brain" wise I still think he shud be playing in the test not odi at least in this series.

and to your answer the Q, yes I did see him batting on TV last one year.

So you have seen him on television recently...and yet you still want him in the team? Well, we all have different opinions...

wiseshah
January 21, 2008, 10:32 PM
i think our attack should be (mash-shahadat--rafiq-enamul-sakib-kapali-ashraful). wish Bd captain use all his bowlers, instead of using only 4 bowlers. why we dont use all our bowling option in most of the matches. when aussie use Michael clarke, symonds and Hussey, why cant we use aftab, rajin, kapali, mehrab jr when they are part of the team. wish some BD captain go against the formula playing.

wiseshah
January 21, 2008, 10:43 PM
i think secret of under 19 cricket success is captain use all his weapons. when bowlers use too many bowlers, opposition either try to play too many shots and lose wicket or play too defensive. I never see our test or ODI team use more than 4/5 bowlers per match, even when most of our bowlers dont get wicket/get beaten badly.

cricket_king
January 21, 2008, 11:44 PM
i think our attack should be (mash-shahadat--rafiq-enamul-sakib-kapali-ashraful). wish Bd captain use all his bowlers, instead of using only 4 bowlers. why we dont use all our bowling option in most of the matches. when aussie use Michael clarke, symonds and Hussey, why cant we use aftab, rajin, kapali, mehrab jr when they are part of the team. wish some BD captain go against the formula playing.

Hussey barely ever bowls. Take him away and Australia use only 2 part timers. That's how it should be. No point in wasting our chances with a hundred bowlers. 2 part timers should be all we need, unless it comes to a situation where we have run out of options, and need to break a partnership.

wiseshah
January 22, 2008, 12:16 AM
Hussey barely ever bowls. Take him away and Australia use only 2 part timers. That's how it should be. No point in wasting our chances with a hundred bowlers. 2 part timers should be all we need, unless it comes to a situation where we have run out of options, and need to break a partnership.


dont u think most of the matches we have that situation? even jason Gillespie make double century against us. Last tour chaminda vaas did. there are plenty of examples. Our occassional bowlers doesnt perform that bad. Aftab is most of the time successful including last tour but most of the mathes he never get chance to bowl. he is the first BD bowler who got 5 wickets against any team , kapali has hattrick against his name. i am not suggesting to use them equal amount like our original bowlers but if necessary use all the options. But i noticed , if aftab is used, we dont use kapali or rajin or mehrab jr. If situation demands, use all option and might success will come.

cricket_king
January 22, 2008, 12:27 AM
dont u think most of the matches we have that situation? even jason Gillespie make double century against us. Last tour chaminda vaas did. there are plenty of examples. Our occassional bowlers doesnt perform that bad. Aftab is most of the time successful including last tour but most of the mathes he never get chance to bowl. he is the first BD bowler who got 5 wickets against any team , kapali has hattrick against his name. i am not suggesting to use them equal amount like our original bowlers but if necessary use all the options. But i noticed , if aftab is used, we dont use kapali or rajin or mehrab jr. If situation demands, use all option and might success will come.

That's a little naive. You even said yourself that if necessary should we use bowlers other than our part timers. Using every single player that can bowl a bit is not going to help you win. Using them all would also allow the opposition to get on top of a few of them and change the momentum of the game. A team should only use more than 2 part timers if they don't have any other options.

nzfan
January 26, 2008, 05:59 AM
perma ban this dickhead please?

Nafi
January 26, 2008, 10:55 AM
perma ban this dickhead please?

I have to say the mods were a bit slow.

Moshin
January 26, 2008, 11:58 AM
Mashrafe Mortaza, Shahadat Hossain, Mohammed Rafique, Abdur Razzak and Sajidul Islam. The main problem between these guys are Shahadat and Sajidul. Razzak or Enamul, really though decisions to make for the tour, but spinners will come in really handy because they are playing at home which will really favour them.

soccer20reverse
January 28, 2008, 04:03 PM
Here is my pick. Since South Africa cant play spin, I suggest the following lineup:

Mohammed Rafique - Open with him he's a very good batsman
Enamul Hoque Jr - They're sure to get confused with a experienced man and a young player (maybe they can steal a run when SA isnt looking).
Abdur Razzak - 1 down is the best place for him, slow batting does the trick!
Sakibul Hasan - How can we have a lineup without the spin trio. They'll dazzle.
Mohammed Ashraful - He can spin the South Africans back to Africa.
Alok Kopali - He deserves another chance.
Rajin Saleh - We can never have too much spin!
Aftab Ahmed - Spin! Spin! Spin!
Elias Sunny - This guy deserved a chance, long time ago, and with SA here, he can spin!
Mahmudullah - One more spin wont hurt anyone!
Marshall Ayub - Keeper! Just in case he has to spin.

sadi
January 28, 2008, 04:27 PM
Lol!!!