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Fazal
February 22, 2008, 01:31 AM
After all those Hum Korenga Tum korenga... learning new tricks.... need to stay in the wicket.....minimize high risk shots....trying to teach the old dog new tricks.... one thing is clear now.... regardless how talented Ash is, he is not going to learn anything.... he is going to play "his way" that he usually plays.... therefore regardless how talented he is... he will continue to have low success rate.


His play really disappointed me. He was not over matched, but for some reason he decided to attack more than it is needed for the current situation. As a captain he set a wrong precedence and that may influenced SN also. And we saw both of them gone unnecessarily and just before lunch.


I know it will be very unpopular question. But I think its time to ask the hard question.

Is it better for Ash as well as for the team if Ash rather dedicate his career in 20=20 and ODI only and retire from TEST?


I know it will create lots of hurt burn and emotional out burst. But I am sorry, I have to ask that question after hoping some changes in Ash's approach before this series and then seeing his 20-20 type innings.

Rifat
February 22, 2008, 01:32 AM
no, keep on fighting

Nocturnal
February 22, 2008, 01:34 AM
[বাংলা]খাম্বা কই??[/বাংলা]

Miraz
February 22, 2008, 01:40 AM
Leave that stupid alone, he is still our best Test batsman.

bharat
February 22, 2008, 01:52 AM
Most of you guys wouldnt agree with me but I think Ash is unnecessarly burdened with Capatancy.

Its not that Ash is a senior or a master strategist that he should be entrusted with capatancy.However ... he is by far the best batsmen and a natural talent ..so why not let him concentrate on his batting.I am daam sure that he would bat much better than what he is doing now.Same thing happened with Sachin.

It is not always that the Best player needs to be the captain ..it is counter productive.

Trying to think of an international captain who happens to the best ...I cant think of none except Ponting.

not V.V Richards
not Sachin
not Flower
not Miandad
not M.Waugh

why Ash ?

DJ Sahastra
February 22, 2008, 02:01 AM
The problem is, there is no one challenging his place given the mediocrity all around.

So he'll continue to be reckless. Which is sad given he is an immensely talented cricketer who will never know what he could've been.

Rabz
February 22, 2008, 02:10 AM
Bharat, thats becuase simply he is the ONLY player,beside Mashrafee, who is almost certain to feature in both forms of the game.

its just that we dont hv any other options...

bharat
February 22, 2008, 02:28 AM
Bharat, thats becuase simply he is the ONLY player,beside Mashrafee, who is almost certain to feature in both forms of the game.

its just that we dont hv any other options...

I see the point ..but frankly entrusting the captancy to another player might be the way out.

Fleming , when he started his captancy was no one and hardly could keep his place but he grew with his captancy.Sakib might be a good choice ..he too might go Fleming's way.

The premise here is that Ash is too valuable for BD to be toyed around, the team should look somewhere else to push the captains bogey ...


Mash would be a bad choice considering his fragile fitness.All in all Sakib might be a good choice, especially because he is an allrounder and a utilty player.Alok too could be an option...but for my money not Ash

Rabz
February 22, 2008, 02:41 AM
To be honest, im not that fanciful about the idea of Sakib being the captain.
He is turning out to be a good useful allrounder for the team.
A good solid middle order batsman and handy with his SLA.

Captaincy is never good for an allrounder, except some strong characters like Imran Khan. See what happened to Flintoff?

Kallis, despite his seniority, never been burdoned with captaincy.
He is simply outstanding with both bat and ball and thats how it should be.

Nafees was tried earlier to be a prospect. But he too lost his form, esp in a time, when they were looking for captain.

But i still think he is still in the running.

Let me tell you this, Ash is not gonna be a captain for too long.

cricket_fanatic
February 22, 2008, 03:15 AM
Is it better for Ash as well as for the team if Ash rather dedicate his career in 20=20 and ODI only and retire from TEST?




Ash rarely scores runs in tests "when it really matters" such as in the first innings. Other than the 130+ knock against SL in 2006 I dont remember any other innings of note from him in test matches when the team really needed it (his 158 and 67 against India, both wonderful knocks, came in 2nd inns when the matches were as good as lost; same with his 100's in SL).

This is not answer to the above question but I reckon this is sth we'll just have to live with!!!

WarWolf
February 22, 2008, 03:28 AM
Let me tell you this, Ash is not gonna be a captain for too long.
Let me tell you this, Ash won't be in the team after five years. And he won't be a memorable character in Bangladesh cricket.

bulbul_fan
February 22, 2008, 03:31 AM
bd shud stop playing test cricket as a whole!

al Furqaan
February 22, 2008, 03:49 AM
disappointed as i am, this is a hair trigger thread. don't get me wrong, i wanted to tear ashraful's hair out when he got out...but at the same time we have to realize that we have not 5-6 twenty-somethings in our squad, but practically the entire squad. and especially so when rafique and bashar (if?) will retire.

if you 5-6 twenty-somethings in squad from a cricket-rich country like india you have the up-down roller coaster of the CB series.

we have 9, soon to be 11 youths, with no cricketing pedigree...hence we have the dumb shot after dumb shot. it will take years, but these guys will learn on the job. they have to. they might never develop into a dravid, ponting, or kallis...but they might become a ganguly or a sarwan.

abu2abu
February 22, 2008, 09:17 AM
This is indeed a tough question, but the wong one to ask. Ash is arguably a better test batsman than a one day one. He only has one ODI hundred to his name and scored a test hundred long before he scored his ODI one.

The only player I can think of who should retire from tests and concentrate on limited overs (based on recent form) is aftab ahmed...

abu2abu
February 22, 2008, 09:21 AM
Most of you guys wouldnt agree with me but I think Ash is unnecessarly burdened with Capatancy.


Ash was made captain because the selectors thought it would make him a more responsible batsman. He captained his Dhaka club side before and his form improved, the selectors were hoping for more of the same.

whether it has worked on not remains to be seen. But I think Ash will remain captain for the forseeable future...

riaz131
February 22, 2008, 09:24 AM
Hard question would be...I don't care how other players are doing, why are we keep playing Habla? Why are we keep kicking the dead horse? He is absolutely abominable :sick:!!! I know he does not want to retire, but should not selector be dropping him already?? And, please Bashar fan if you don't like my question, I don't want to hear from you.. oooo... he is Mr. 50. Wait till he get back with his "Form" (which I am still unable to see). I don't care if he scores 250 in the next innings, it's time selector bid him a due. Calling all selectors.... Please drop Mr. Habla and put him out of his misery.:callme:

sadi
February 22, 2008, 09:28 AM
Aftab was the top scorer today. Anyways, Ash's innings frustated me also. I guess there is nothing we can do about it. This is how he plays. He needs to play a few shots in the beginning of the innings to get comfortable and then he can play it out. I know it doesn't go with the basic of test cricket where one is supposed to get set and then play their shots. Bashar was kinda the same in his early days. Funny isn't it?

tonoy
February 22, 2008, 09:34 AM
Time again Ash has supported my theory of him turning out to have the same fate as Shahid Afridi. They both have good eyes, but never an intelligent one. They will have very limited success and people will eventually get used to it.

sharifk
February 22, 2008, 10:35 AM
disappointed as i am, this is a hair trigger thread. don't get me wrong, i wanted to tear ashraful's hair out when he got out...but at the same time we have to realize that we have not 5-6 twenty-somethings in our squad, but practically the entire squad. and especially so when rafique and bashar (if?) will retire.

if you 5-6 twenty-somethings in squad from a cricket-rich country like india you have the up-down roller coaster of the CB series.

we have 9, soon to be 11 youths, with no cricketing pedigree...hence we have the dumb shot after dumb shot. it will take years, but these guys will learn on the job. they have to. they might never develop into a dravid, ponting, or kallis...but they might become a ganguly or a sarwan.

spot on al Furqaan..

We must understand that our team is in the forming stage, and we have got the best talents (bar HB) in the team in the process of many changes. Now we have gotta give these guys chances to learn from their mistakes. We must believe in them in tough times, and they will come through them. I like the fact that they have fought back and have come back to the game. And we must remember it's a game of 5 days and even the experience guys do mistakes like the way Kallis was leaving his stumps..so stop talking about major changes all the time...

abu2abu
February 22, 2008, 10:35 AM
Aftab was top scorer today, but did you see the way he got out? He does have a single ODI or test century to his name and the only time he even remotely looked like making a big scroe was when he scrored 85 against england in 2005 (again in a losing cause, when the pressure was off).

Ash when he's in good touch) looks like any score is gettable. On this basis if any1 should retire from tests to concentrate on ODIs it should be aftab...

abu2abu
February 22, 2008, 10:36 AM
I don't care if he scores 250 in the next innings, it's time selector bid him a due.:

the correct term is "adieu"...

Tigers_eye
February 22, 2008, 10:39 AM
lol, I am laughing my rear off. HB, J Lo hasn't retired yet. You want Ash to retire?

Live with the following facts:
Tamim: One match 50 another one single digit woohoo. soft dismissal.
Junaid: They can't get me out. I give catch practice to the slip. Foot work? what is it? I thought hand-eye is enough.
HB: after customary 10 runs woohoo, soft dismissal. Did my job. My average ensures I am undroppable.
SN: after customary 25 runs woohoo, soft dismissal. Did my job.
Ash: after customary 30 runs woohoo, soft dismissal. Did my job.
Aftab: If he can survive, after customary 40 runs woohoo, soft dismissal. Did my job.
Shakib: after customary 30 runs woohoo, soft dismissal. Did my job.
Mushi: after customary 5 runs of 25 balls woohoo, soft dismissal. Did my job. I am the GB.

We have our best batsmen in the tail.

Abdur Razzak, Shahadat and Mash.

On the average, the above is more than true. Take it to the bank.

Shobha
February 22, 2008, 10:46 AM
The problem with ash is that he never learns.
i actually do think that before he goes on field to play he sets aims for himself to play sensibly. but as soon as those balls start flying in, he becomes a psycho and just cannot help himself.:-|

irteja
February 22, 2008, 10:46 AM
why blame Ash when most of the Batsman fail?

PoorFan
February 22, 2008, 10:50 AM
Hard question has no easy answer ... especially when BD team is concern, thats how I feel.

sadi
February 22, 2008, 10:55 AM
Ash when he's in good touch) looks like any score is gettable. On this basis if any1 should retire from tests to concentrate on ODIs it should be aftab...

I am not in an arguement here whether Ash or Aftab should be dropped. They are the two most talented batsmen in this team and both should get their act together and play for years to come.

Aftab was top scorer today, but did you see the way he got out? He does have a single ODI or test century to his name and the only time he even remotely looked like making a big scroe was when he scrored 85 against england in 2005 (again in a losing cause, when the pressure was off).

Lol. Read it again. When was the last time we played for a winning cause when there was too much pressure. It is not the right time to criticize one when both got out in an unforgivable manner.

Fazal
February 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
There were lots of "stupid outs" today, why I directed the hard question to Ash's way only?

1. Junaid, Sakib, Tamim are pretty new here. Its frustrating but not to the point to say, they will not learn.

2. Aftab really tried to change his usual habit and tried to stay in the wicket first. He tried and then failed after staying for a while. Its frustrating, but at least its telling us that he is changing a bit,,,, that give us a some hope may be that eventually he will change and play test like a test.

3. I am not sure SN is 100% back to his form yet. Plus like Aftab, he tried a bit in his early stage to hold the inning. So can give him a little benefit of doubt, before comming to a conclusion that he is no good as a TEST player.


4. One way or another Bashar will be out of the team - volunteer retirement or forced retirement. So I don't think its a hard question to ask.... we all (all most) agree on Bashar.


But there comes Ash. Not only he has enormous talented, he has a big group of dedicated followers and he occasionally shines to keep his fan base happy. He used to be uncontested hero in our team and still he may be considered the pillar of our batting strength.

But he is the captain of the team and he is one of the most experienced players left in the team. He says one thing before the series as if he realized his mental short coming and then suddenly when the series starts he start playing the same old way... its not that he is over matched by the opponents, its the high risk shots he start taking ball after ball at the beginning of the innings.

But things are changing slowing, within next few years I am hoping there will few more batting options coming from the new breed of players (within next few years.).. they may not be as talented as Ash or as experienced as Ash.... but thanks to our u-19, development team, team-a and other activities.. they are all better prepared in the lower level and knows the basics and adaptable to team's need than for example when Bashar, Ash or even Afatb or SN came.


You can argue that still Ash is valuable for out TEST team as there is still no substitute yet. Well I can agree with that. But I also think that...

1) Things will change within next few years with few more new batsman will be in the equation

2) Regardless what he says, I don't think Ash will learn anything new or he will change his approach. We have to except as he is and pray that we will have his substitute in near future who has some talent but knows how to bat in TEST match.

3) We have a team of young players and Ash is the captain and one of the more experienced player in the team. The think that worries me is Ash's style of playing may have a bad influence/effect in the growth of our young batsman.


But I have no doubt about Ash's future role in ODI and 20-20. He is made foe those kind of games and he enjoys that kind of games. I can see Ash's need in ODI and 20-20 team beyond next few years.

For all those reasons my hard question is directed towards Ash and no one else.

abu2abu
February 22, 2008, 11:03 AM
Lol. Read it again. When was the last time we played for a winning cause when there was too much pressure. It is not the right time to criticize one when both got out in an unforgivable manner.

Perhaps you shoudl read it again. the pressure is on when you are batting first and trying to set a score or chasing a score. there's no pressure when you know you're losing. You may be a pessimist, but I don't think the BD batsman come in from ball one expecting to lose...

abu2abu
February 22, 2008, 11:05 AM
I'm not criticising aftab for the way he played in this test (other than failing to score 50). My point is Ash looks like a test batsman, Aftab doesn't and hasn't done since 2005...He does look like an ODI batsman on the other hand. Ash looks like both a test and odi player...

MohammedC
February 22, 2008, 11:05 AM
Leave that stupid alone, he is still our best Test batsman.

I must say I agree with you. I have the same mix feeling

He is sometime a Stupid-fool
He is our best batsmen Ashra-fool

Shobha
February 22, 2008, 11:07 AM
why blame Ash when most of the Batsman fail?

first of all they way he threw away his wicket is totally unacceptable.
and as a captain he should be setting a good example, not just to the other players but to the game itself.

Fazal
February 22, 2008, 11:12 AM
why blame Ash when most of the Batsman fail?

No one is blaming ash for other batsman's fault. Each player is responsible for their own fault. And each should be analyzed case by case basis i.e their tole in the team (Captaincy), experience, age, tendency to learn, trend , what is expected from him and what he is doing wrong, is he learning from his mistake ... etc

As Ash is the captain and kind of one of the experienced player in the team, definitely he has some influence in the young team that we cannot discount.

akabir77
February 22, 2008, 11:18 AM
IF bashar doesn't retire after this test he is not going to get his chance and will cry like his pal PILOT.

ASH as a captain in field is good but he is not a captain material when he is batting and off the field. And a captain has to do all four right (fielding including) so out of four criteria he has only on going for him.

I never liked the idea of him being the captain. Don't care if there r replacement or not but the way he got out the funny thing is i knew he would and i told my wife hey he is going to get out this ball cause its close to lunch and he just hit 2 fours and my wife didn't believe me at first and then stared at me with disbelieve.

Bottom line you have to have more than a captain just like Shuvro did for U19. even though he batted at 8 he scored runs and which inspired the whole team. We could have easily won this test if we had made 250 which was get-able.

bottom line we need to sack him from captaincy and i assure you the day he gets sacked the day he starts to play right. mark my word.

BTW how many golden duck or close to golden duck will our golden boy lay before we drop him?

Fazal
February 22, 2008, 11:20 AM
lol, I am laughing my rear off. HB, J Lo hasn't retired yet. You want Ash to retire?


In case of HB & J Lo it's not a hard question to ask . Almost every one agrees. That makes it a easy question to ask.

Where as in Ash's case its a catch 20-20 or not even that. Thats why its a Hard question to ask.

sadi
February 22, 2008, 11:20 AM
Perhaps you shoudl read it again. the pressure is on when you are batting first and trying to set a score or chasing a score. there's no pressure when you know you're losing. You may be a pessimist, but I don't think the BD batsman come in from ball one expecting to lose...

So when you bat first, there is pressure. When you chase, there is pressure. But there is no pressure when you are trying to avoid an innings defeat? Hmmmm....

The way I see it is whenever you go out to bat, there is pressure to perform and you need to have enough confidence in yourself that you can take your team out of trouble.

I am not a pessimist. I just don't like when people don't give credit where it's due. There is no reason to undermine his innings against England saying it was a pressure free situation. True, he didn't play well after that innings but that innings was against one of the strongest pace attack England recently had (Harmison, Hoggard, Simon Jones and Flintoff).

I guess we can just agree to disagree.

abu2abu
February 22, 2008, 11:34 AM
I am not a pessimist. I just don't like when people don't give credit where it's due. There is no reason to undermine his innings against England saying it was a pressure free situation. True, he didn't play well after that innings but that innings was against one of the strongest pace attack England recently had (Harmison, Hoggard, Simon Jones and Flintoff).

I guess we can just agree to disagree.

I didn't mean to undermine his innings. i agree with you, that england pace attack went on to defeat australia in the ashes, it was a fine attack and a fine performance by aftab. I didn't realise that was what you took exception to. I just meant in general over the last few years aftab hasn't looked much like a test player. but it's also true he hasn't played much test cricket in that time.

I suspect we agree more than we disagree.

abu2abu
February 22, 2008, 11:38 AM
Incidentally avoiding an innings defeat against england was a pretty tall order in that test. he only had the tail enders for support and 2 full days left!

I don't think he harboured many thoughts of avoiding an innings defeat. That's not pessimistic, just realistic...

abu2abu
February 22, 2008, 11:38 AM
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/210366.html

Ishtylish cricketer
February 22, 2008, 11:45 AM
The problem is, there is no one challenging his place given the mediocrity all around.

So he'll continue to be reckless. Which is sad given he is an immensely talented cricketer who will never know what he could've been.

Couldn't agree more.

lamisa
February 22, 2008, 11:49 AM
Most of you guys wouldnt agree with me but I think Ash is unnecessarly burdened with Capatancy.

Its not that Ash is a senior or a master strategist that he should be entrusted with capatancy.However ... he is by far the best batsmen and a natural talent ..so why not let him concentrate on his batting.I am daam sure that he would bat much better than what he is doing now.Same thing happened with Sachin.

It is not always that the Best player needs to be the captain ..it is counter productive.

Trying to think of an international captain who happens to the best ...I cant think of none except Ponting.

not V.V Richards
not Sachin
not Flower
not Miandad
not M.Waugh

why Ash ?

he IS a master strategiest.

mshakir56
February 22, 2008, 11:52 AM
We need a talent pool like Indian has, and only then Ashraful will use his head !

reyme
February 22, 2008, 03:53 PM
According Bangladesherkhela, Ash said it is possible to shot SA out under 100 runs as long as the bowlers bowl in the right place!

reyme
February 22, 2008, 03:55 PM
Lets make Ash a talking captain and someone from the banglacricket a real captain from the outside of the field. this takes some pressure off of Ash

Beamer
February 22, 2008, 03:58 PM
According Bangladesherkhela, Ash said it is possible to shot SA out under 100 runs as long as the bowlers bowl in the right place!

He is becoming a talking head..

sadi
February 22, 2008, 04:06 PM
According Bangladesherkhela, Ash said it is possible to shot SA out under 100 runs as long as the bowlers bowl in the right place!

I seriously doubt he said that. They probably twisted his words a little bit.

Nocturnal
February 22, 2008, 04:08 PM
I seriously doubt he said that. They probably twisted his words a little bit.

I guess he said it, from bdnews24 -
[বাংলা]মোহাম্মদ রফিকের বলে যে জ্যাক কালিস বাংলাদেশের বিপক্ষে প্রথমবারের মতো আউট হলেন, তাতে বল নীচু হওয়ারও বেশ ভূমিকা আছে। তাহলে কতো রানে আটকে দেওয়া সম্ভব প্রোটিয়াদের? মিরপুর শেরেবাংলা স্টেডিয়ামের সংবাদ সম্মেলন কক্ষে এমন প্রশ্নে বাংলাদেশ অধিনায়ক যে জবাব দিলেন, তার প্রথম অংশটা হাস্যকরও মনে হতে পারে, "একশোর নীচেও হতে পারে। আবার আড়াইশোর মধ্যেও হতে পারে। এটা নির্ভর করবে আমরা কেমন বল করি তার ওপর।" [/বাংলা]

Fazal
February 22, 2008, 04:44 PM
I seriously doubt he said that. They probably twisted his words a little bit.

I also think so. I think they misquoted him. Most likely he said, "it is possible to shot SA out under 1000 runs as long as the bowlers bowl in the right place!"

zainab
February 22, 2008, 04:52 PM
The problem with ash is that he never learns.
i actually do think that before he goes on field to play he sets aims for himself to play sensibly. but as soon as those balls start flying in, he becomes a psycho and just cannot help himself.:-|

I genuinely agree with you, i can smack him if I am near to him and tell him that he is wasting his God given talent. I saw him as a 17 yr old playing test cricket and in my eyes he is a batting genius. He has a psychological problem, cannot resist smacking those balls, fails to realize that he has all the time in the world. This has been his problem for years, and will never learn, but if he settles in, he is a completely different player, like when he scored a century against Australia and last year in SL when he scored 129 not out, which was a measured and careful innings.
Hopefully, there is still still a chance for him here to make a decent score.

Murad
February 22, 2008, 06:14 PM
I guess he said it, from bdnews24 -

So did he say anything wrong??

He didn't say it like " we will bowl them out within 100 runs".

I don't see anything wrong in it. At this point, whatever he said could be possible if our bowlers bowl in the right place. They are already 4 down. 4 top order batsmen.

tiger_omar
February 22, 2008, 07:09 PM
And who will replace ASH??? Rajis Saleh, who will come out to bat at score 15 runs and 60 balls and get out. At least with Ash, we know he's got a talent, IF somehow, and only God knows how, Ash can improve his temprament, he would become one of the better batsmen in the subcontinent. But that's a big IF and he hasn't done anything about it in the last 5 years.

BanCricFan
February 22, 2008, 08:08 PM
Ash is by far the best we got and the right man for the captaincy job. There is a serious day light between him and the rest in every aspects. Yes, he gets out in stupid ways...but also makes up for this by his outstanding performances every now and then. I strongly believe he is working really hard to minimize the recklessness and sooner rather than later will start delivering.

I will put my neck on the line and would declare him as a genius...and, like most geniuses, he has flaws...we should just embrace it!

He will frustrate us abundantly but on his Eid days he will make us IMMENSELY happy! Insha-allah, Eid days will be more frequent after a year or two. The boy will become a man and, in keeping with the cricketing norm, will reach his peak. In the meantime, we should keep looking at the night sky for sighting of the new moon. Its just the matter of time...according to all astrnomical caculations a new moon is due along with a few other heavenly bodies...:):)

Dhakablues
February 22, 2008, 09:37 PM
If you think of a captain,,, I would say Nannu was a shrewd one. He knew how to pace innings. Ashraful? He is not that type of a player,, he scored 30 something runs with 20 something balls,,, its okay to be aggressive but by no means is Ashraful as effective as Inzamam, Lara, Sowrav who were all aggressive players but played according to the demand of the situation. Ashraful has been playing for what? 8 years now? And he will learn? I doubt that,, then it wont be his "Natural Game". Naturally, Aftab/Ashraful/Bashar/Tamim are not players who can resist their shot selection. There are only few players who can do this...And amongst them who can and will dominate Bangladesh cricket is Sakib Al Hasan. I dont say this for his leading the C team or the BCB XI. Its because he has been playing very responsibly since his age group days. There is no doubt about how talented he is and how he is growing by learning in every series. I think he will be the Bangladesh Captain in the future because he is naturally calm, he plays according to a plan, has the talent to play any shots and is corrects his mistakes.. But I think Ashraful will need to act like a Captain ( learn from Shuvo, perhaps) than acting like Ashraful himself. We are okay with Ashraful the batsman,, but Ashraful the captain has not done anything where we can say that he has lead from front, changed his style to control the game or created a situation where his leadership skills were seen. However, with our board playing a very passive role,,, I doubt of any change.

Fazal
February 23, 2008, 09:02 AM
We have 4 aggressive batsman by nature. Two are young (Tamim and Zunaid) and and two are more experienced Aftab and Ash. Ash is the most experienced.


When we talk about Ash's unnecessary aggressive batting, Aftab's names come up. We know Siddon's motto for the Test , i.e.. try to stay wicket as long as you can and run will come along the way specially when you are set.


Now we have watched two innings (even though Aftab is still batting). Which of the two old dogs do you think learning the new tricks?

To me I see almost no evidence that Ash is learning anything, but I see some evidence that Aftab is trying to adopt to Siddon's motto. Don't you think so?

zainab
February 23, 2008, 09:12 AM
I seriously doubt he said that. They probably twisted his words a little bit.


I agree! Ash is not that stupid to say that thy can bowl out SA for 100 runs. If he said that, he needs to have his head examined. These reporters twist his words, and the least he says, the better it is for him. the media manager should warn him.

cricman
February 23, 2008, 09:14 AM
Now we have watched two innings (even though Aftab is still batting). Which of the two old dogs do you think learning the new tricks?



Both dogs :D

BTW: Captain Ashraful is had a huge role in putting us in this favorable situation and don't ya forget that. It just wasn't the doosraful either.

zainab
February 23, 2008, 09:23 AM
Aftab is trying to curb his natural tendency to be aggressive by staying at the wicket for a longer period of time, I feel that he will try his best to keep his place in the Test team. Apparently, Siddons likes him and will try his best to coach him along the way.
As for Ash, he is an enigma in everyone's eyes. Fans love him and hate him, so there is a love/hate relationship. He has immense talent, but poor cricketing brain, and we all have expectations when he comes out to bat. I think that he is improving his captaincy, but if he does not perform well after the end of 2008, he will step down as captain and Shakib will take over the reins.
Anyhow, I will always remain his most loyal fan, regardless of his failures, because I admired him instantly when I saw him smacking his first Test century in Colombo as a young inexperienced 17 yr old against the likes of Vaas and Murali.

ammark
February 23, 2008, 09:33 AM
The sad fact is, we have short memories. Aftab's 2005 Test series in England proved to my eyes that he *can* be Test class. Sadly, he hadnt been given enough of those chances right after, and he has had to recover from some severe toying-with by the selectors whenever he played his tests. I REALLY hope he hangs in there and finds his groove tomorrow.

Fazal
February 23, 2008, 09:34 AM
BTW: Captain Ashraful is had a huge role in putting us in this favorable situation and don't ya forget that. It just wasn't the doosraful either.

Oh really? I didn't know that Ash had a role in Sahadat's 6 wicket or Aftab's 40 something innings or Juniad's 64* and that run out.
Sorry its my fault. Capitan Ash rocks...

cricman
February 23, 2008, 09:58 AM
Oh really? I didn't know that Ash had a role in Sahadat's 6 wicket or Aftab's 40 something innings or Juniad's 64* and that run out.
Sorry its my fault. Capitan Ash rocks...

you got the last part right ... his field settings, rotation of bowlers, choking of SA runs by using spinners, using Rafique not to leak runs along with Rajib had nothing to due restricting SA? Ash could of pulled harakiri in the begging of his innings instead of repairing the innings and laying the foundation of a challenging target. He's only good when he score 100 and other wise he's crap right? Our #3 Batsmen could be Captain again and i'm sure we'd probably be in a better position than we are right.

Ashrafooool is a crap batsmen who's only good in eid and he's not allowed to chip in a contribution of 57 runs in a Test where runs are really precious and is dumb Captain who had very smart field settings that limited the SA batsmen options and was proactive and changed them ASAP when he felt something was wrong and was really dumb for not sticking with our #1 bowler Vice captain.

GuruTM
February 23, 2008, 09:59 AM
We should seriously consider grooming Sakib as the next captain for Bangladesh team. There is a hidden agenda in the previous sentence.

We should never consider someone other than Ashraful for captaincy as long as he is in the team. There is a hidden agenda in the previous sentence.


Both of these agendas are politically correct and doesn't conflict each other. BTW, i don't see anything wrong with "hum korenga tum korenga". You have to talk first to do the walk. Kids learns to do the talk before they could walk. Patience, my friend, patience. They will do the walk. Have faith. Back them up, even if they are down.


If a friend of mine is having a fight with my enemy just to save me, to salvage my pride, to keep me happy, to protect my rights would i scold, criticise, back-stab him for being bruised, beaten, fallen to the enemy? There is a hidden agenda in the previous sentence. This thread is just serving that purpose. Dear Fazal, this is not a personal attack. I am just being honest.

Sohel
February 23, 2008, 10:10 AM
I don't have a problem with Ash's captaincy with regards to field setting and bowler-management at all. I was again impressed by his tenacity and and aggression today. His clutch bowling culminating in the 'dooshraful' (thanks cricman) dismissal of ABD ended all hopes for SA today before Rajib's continued brilliance with ball, wonderfully supported by Rafiq's tight and threatening bowling finished them off.

Batting-wise, I'll take his crucial partnership with Zunaed without too much difficulty. That said, he still seems to be stuck on stupid when it comes to keeping his strange compulsions on a captain's leash. His dismissal was simply unacceptable after all that hard work! Especially unbecoming with a young player at the other end playing his 3rd test match.

Now I'm sure he knows all this but the time has come for us to see him do something about what he knows. There are people who cannot sustain success. Luckily, the same type of folks often can't sustain failure for too long either. Sadly, they end up being just mediocre when all is said and done. It would be truly disappointing for our cricket if Mohammad Ashraful Matin turns out to be mediocre by the time he retires. Most of us believe that he will deliver. The time has come for our beloved Ashraful to do some sort of justice to our faith in his abilities.

BanCricFan
February 23, 2008, 02:02 PM
.

I will put my neck on the line and would declare him as a genius...and, like most geniuses, he has flaws...we should just embrace it!

He will frustrate us abundantly but on his Eid days he will make us IMMENSELY happy! Insha-allah, Eid days will be more frequent after a year or two. The boy will become a man and, in keeping with the cricketing norm, will reach his peak. In the meantime, we should keep looking at the night sky for sighting of the new moon. Its just the matter of time...according to all astrnomical caculations a new moon is due along with a few other heavenly bodies...:):)

Only a genius can get a batsman out like the way he did to AB!..Doosraful is just one amongst many 'heavenly bodies' yet to visit us via the conduit of Ash's geniusness. :D

Murad
February 23, 2008, 03:12 PM
I don't have a problem with Ash's captaincy with regards to field setting and bowler-management at all. I was again impressed by his tenacity and and aggression today. His clutch bowling culminating in the 'dooshraful' (thanks cricman) dismissal of ABD ended all hopes for SA today before Rajib's continued brilliance with ball, wonderfully supported by Rafiq's tight and threatening bowling finished them off.

Batting-wise, I'll take his crucial partnership with Zunaed without too much difficulty. That said, he still seems to be stuck on stupid when it comes to keeping his strange compulsions on a captain's leash. His dismissal was simply unacceptable after all that hard work! Especially unbecoming with a young player at the other end playing his 3rd test match.

Now I'm sure he knows all this but the time has come for us to see him do something about what he knows. There are people who cannot sustain success. Luckily, the same type of folks often can't sustain failure for too long either. Sadly, they end up being just mediocre when all is said and done. It would be truly disappointing for our cricket if Mohammad Ashraful Matin turns out to be mediocre by the time he retires. Most of us believe that he will deliver. The time has come for our beloved Ashraful to do some sort of justice to our faith in his abilities.

:applause::applause:

RazabQ
February 23, 2008, 07:47 PM
So, Fazal, we could have expected the same from Bashar's captaincy?
Break a crucial partnership like Ash did in NZ as well with his own bowling and establish the breach that would let Rajib rip through the tail? Set up suffocative field placings that let to building up pressure?

Even as a batsmen don't under-estimate his one shot in anger. That nonchalant, slog-swept six was probably a big reason why Botha wasn't persisted with which in turn was great for Z who was not picking the drifter.

We all know his batting brain farts are inexcusable, but until you can suggest a player who matches EVERYTHING the guy brings to the table I suggest you other we-be-sick-of-Ash guys put aside the vitriol and enjoy one of the rare days of dominance on the world's #2 Test

Fazal
February 23, 2008, 08:01 PM
So, Fazal, we could have expected the same from Bashar's captaincy?
Break a crucial partnership like Ash did in NZ as well with his own bowling and establish the breach that would let Rajib rip through the tail? Set up suffocative field placings that let to building up pressure?



Ash is a better Captain than Bashar we all know that. Actually almost half of the current player s will be better captain than Bashar. Don't you agree?

Ash is a relatively new captain and as a captain he is already above average and thats not the question here in the thread (at least not from me). Ash's wicket (as a bowler) was also excellent as a occational bowler ...but to give credit too much for our fightback to Ash's captaincy is also depriving the real heroes their due respect here... try to give credit where is due is more fair... the LBWs and the bowl outs and the runs outs... what it has to with captaincy,,, I really don't know.

DJ Sahastra
February 23, 2008, 08:08 PM
IMO, and with due apologies to many a Banglar fans, Ashraful is a very talented mediocre player. He drives me to hopelessness and despair.

There is nothing classy about continuing to average in mid-20s .

With a little bit more responsibility, he could've put this Test conclusively beyond SA's reach. Yet, he has chosen to keep the fans nervous and anxious.

As he captain and the most talented BD batsman, he has more responsibilities. He seems to be taking none.

One World
February 23, 2008, 08:10 PM
A for Art
S for Style
H for History

Occassionally though. Mostly

A for Arrogance
S for Stupidity
H for Humiliation

But again I like the first part. Ready to pay a lot of the bottom to get a glimpse of the top.

sandpiper
February 23, 2008, 08:16 PM
s.....i.....g...h.......

Nocturnal
February 23, 2008, 08:27 PM
IMO, and with due apologies to many a Banglar fans, Ashraful is a very talented mediocre player. He drives me to hopelessness and despair.
There is nothing classy about continuing to average in mid-20s .
With a little bit more responsibility, he could've put this Test conclusively beyond SA's reach. Yet, he has chosen to keep the fans nervous and anxious.
As he captain and the most talented BD batsman, he has more responsibilities. He seems to be taking none.

DJ thanks for telling the truth, honestly it was painful reading your post but again most observations are true.
Just to add- the way he gave away his wicket in both innings were shocking, if I was the coach he would be in big trouble, he dropped an easy catch while ABDV was on 30 and later he got him with a funny ball while ABDV was on 46(atleast they put 25-30 runs partnership after that drop catch)... I was horrified how costly it could be. Bottom line- he needs to perform and we all know he is capable of many wonder but- "There is nothing classy about continuing to average in mid-20s." *sigh*

Orpheus
February 23, 2008, 09:53 PM
Can we ban Fazal from opening cricket related threads? Please mods, for the sake of sanity.

Tigers_eye
February 23, 2008, 10:14 PM
A for Art
S for Style
H for History

Occassionally though. Mostly

A for Arrogance
S for Stupidity
H for Humiliation

But again I like the first part. Ready to pay a lot of the bottom to get a glimpse of the top.
:up:

Tigers_eye
February 25, 2008, 12:22 PM
And Ash speaks out again (Put a sock in your mouth).
http://www.bangladesherkhela.com/index.php?newsID=5113&pageTitle=details&editionID=280

Note what he is saying about the curator??? Why is he blaming curator for lying? The Curator said this would be a bouncy pitch. Who is lying we all know. Just shut up and play. He got runs in the first innings? 35 counts as runs??? Where is the 100 you promised?

And copying bashar will not help you cover up your failures. Stop blaiming the bowlers and instead praise them for keeping you A** in the game for two and a half days after the pathetic batting display.

akabir77
February 25, 2008, 12:33 PM
And Ash speaks out again (Put a sock in your mouth).
http://www.bangladesherkhela.com/index.php?newsID=5113&pageTitle=details&editionID=280

Note what he is saying about the curator??? Why is he blaming curator for lying? The Curator said this would be a bouncy pitch. Who is lying we all know. Just shut up and play. He got runs in the first innings? 35 counts as runs??? Where is the 100 you promised?

And copying bashar will not help you cover up your failures. Stop blaiming the bowlers and instead praise them for keeping you A** in the game for two and a half days after the pathetic batting display.

ASH is a master of saying FALTU kotha. I wish BCB sends him to school during off season. Did he passed class 10 yet?

WarWolf
February 25, 2008, 12:43 PM
Ash means "chhai". His words make us feel he thinks himself as made of ash.

RazabQ
February 25, 2008, 02:28 PM
guys, Ash is guilty of not understanding that press will twist his words and BD press even more. E.g. the whole "we can win". If you read the prothom-alo version it sounds no where as ridiculous as the Daily Star version! Seriously, ever since RI left DS, their sports dept has sucked big time.

Fazal
February 25, 2008, 03:00 PM
Excuse excuse and excuse.... and its always somebody else's fault.

So how many years he is playing for the national team and dealing with BD reporters?

There is a difference between getting fooled once and getting fooled repeatedly

and

there is a difference between "not understanding" and "incapable of understanding"

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

RazabQ
February 25, 2008, 03:37 PM
fazal - full agreement with you. Ash needs some training from the Buck school of pseudo-psycho mumbo jumbo or the Fletch school of cultivated banalities. But again, [বাংলা]কাকে আনবা?[/বাংলা]

Fazal
February 25, 2008, 03:45 PM
, [বাংলা]কাকে আনবা?[/বাংলা]

Thats the problem. We don't have anybody yet and i don't know when we will have any in near future.

And thats why even though he drives me nuts, I am not yet demanding his head. He is not yet the batting bottle neck yet.

And thats why its such a hard question to ask. But unlike some other fans, I am kind of given up hope that he will learn and become better. He will be as he is... production wise good enough to be in this weak team for a while, not a great enough to be anywehere near other greats.

Fazal
February 25, 2008, 04:01 PM
The thing that makes me sad is how some of the players are kind of refuse to improvise and learn and adopt based on team's need and based on their past mitsakes. Whereas we have players like Farhad and Rasel who may have less talent, atleast shows us how they are eager to learn and improvise and improve and polish their talent. And at the end, they don't get chance. We continue to invest on players who shows no sign of learning anything. That really frustrates me. It gives me a feeling that we are wasting our time and energy to wrong players.

auntu
February 26, 2008, 06:02 AM
eida ki kon?

Fazal
March 12, 2008, 09:48 PM
I am changing my stand a little bit...

Should he retire from both TEST and ODI and dedicate his career purely on 20-20?

Because that where his natural game will flourish (if any) without any need to adjust based on team's need.

al-Sagar
March 12, 2008, 09:53 PM
ashraful needs a break.

drop him for the ODI series against Ireland

Murad
March 12, 2008, 11:10 PM
I am changing my stand a little bit...

Should he retire from both TEST and ODI and dedicate his career purely on 20-20?

Because that where his natural game will flourish (if any) without any need to adjust based on team's need.

hmmmmm

SO you want him to end his career at this age? Because you can't stand him?

Shotti Fazal bhai, I'm really shocked by your comments. Last 2 year dhore apnar comments pore ashchi but erokom comments porchi bole mone hoi na.. I knew you don't like him but you made some good comments about him though all were against him. Some of those comments were harsh truths.

But I really didn't expect this comments from you. How can any sane person want a 24 yr old player to retire just because he makes so many mistakes in batting? (I don't like him so it doesn't matter, right?).

What would you do if you were in his place? Just retire? Quit as a failure? Only the gutless will do that.

If you were a wise person, you would say drop him from the team and let him earn his place.

Peace!

wiseshah
March 13, 2008, 12:03 AM
drop ash for the 3rd match against SAF, thats it. he will get his lesson

Fazal
March 13, 2008, 08:18 AM
hmmmmm

Shotti Fazal bhai, I'm really shocked by your comments. Last 2 year dhore apnar comments pore ashchi but erokom comments porchi bole mone hoi na.. I knew you don't like him but you made some good comments about him though all were against him. Some of those comments were harsh truths.

But I really didn't expect this comments from you. How can any sane person want a 24 yr old player to retire just because he makes so many mistakes in batting? (I don't like him so it doesn't matter, right?).

What would you do if you were in his place? Just retire? Quit as a failure? Only the gutless will do that.

If you were a wise person, you would say drop him from the team and let him earn his place.

Peace!

I think you are getting too immotional here. I am not attacking the "Ash the person" here. I only LOVE players who contibute. I LOVED Ash when he contibuted, and will again LOVE him if again he contibute in a meaningful way. There is not a single BD player that I don't like personally. What I don't like is when players clog the national team day after day and no sign of learning anything as if its their birth right to be in the team.

Age 24 may be a young age for any profession. But for players specially who are already playing 9+ years for the highest level and has 100+ game experience, 24 doesn't give you any benifit of doubt that may be he will learn. The Fact is he is not learning, saying one thing... doing other thing.... expecting to do others one thing.... he himslef is doing other thing.... Making same type of mistakes repeatedly....

have you seen Aftab recently? They were in the similar mold and had similar issues.... but have you seen progress in him (Aftab)..... have you seen how hard he is trying to follow Siddon's instruction? Have you seen similar conviction in Ash's game in this tour?

Its nothing to do with my personal like or dislike here. Its seeing the real picture without our biasness.

If you follow my comment, you will see I follow the team rather than follow the player. I evaluate every player based on what he is giving to the team and how he is progressing as a player. Forget about Ashraful the person, I am pretty sure he is a charming fellow. But when you evaluate Ash the player, you will see a player with enourmous talent refusing to learn and adjust from his mistakes....he talk about his natual game.... plus some of the fans here also saying we should let him his his NATURAL game.... what is his natural game?

For one mement if you open up your 'Ash Fan' mask, I guess you will realize that his NATURAL game is perfecty suited for 20-20 and may be in ODI only if he play Shahid Afridi's mode as a late slog hitter. But then again Afridi is more useful as a ODI bowler. So even with Afridi MODE, he need to contribute with his ball also to make him.

And thats the reality... its nothing to do with my like and dislike.... so please don't bring those silly sentimental things...."You don't like Ash...".

Why shouldn't I like Ash if/when he contribute?

thebest
March 13, 2008, 10:53 AM
Fazal,
I always liked witty comment. But this is one you nailed it with harsh word so unlike you. It does not matter whether I like a player or not. I would say I am shamelessly HB and Mushy fan. But I think selectors given enough lifeline to HB in test based on his past consistence performance. Same is for Mushy. BTW I am not an Ash fan. But did Ash ever perform consistently. never. We fan expect team to perform but on condition that our favorite player can not be dropped irrespective of his performance. so if I ask why Ash is in the team then I am told by the fan he is match winner. IF he score we would win. True but would he score. Probably not. He is 24, so he would learn. Clarke is 24, Flemming was made captain when 24. Ponting came into Aus team at the same age and I think Dhoni also. But their age did not hindered their development. Dada learned his lesson after dropped and was in wilderness for 4 years. The most unfortunate thing is that he is not learning. Nobody has any doubt he is the most talented player in Bangladesh. But Kapali, Mushi, Aftab are also talented. Kapali and Mushy are dropped and there is sign that Aftab, Tamim are learning.
ASH is not. And like Fazal say please don't bring sentiments . it is a professional world. Why should I like if he does not contribute.

Murad
March 13, 2008, 11:23 AM
I didn't bring any sentiments here. Nor I'm supporting Ash to be in the team.

What I said is you cannot ask a player of aged 24 to retire just because he failed to score. It's just not right. I would have said the same thing even if Ash wasn't my fav player.

It doesn't matter if he played 100 or 200 matches. He's still young. There's always chance for him to do well.

You could have said Drop him and keep him out of the team for some good years untill he starts performing consistently or whatever. (WHich I also want to see. I also want to see him getting dropped and play for A-team)

And how can you just label him as a 20/20 player?

He has a strike rate of 43/44 in Test cricket. Does this looks like 20/20 to you? He has the most Test centuries in our country. Highest individual scores as well.

Miraz
March 13, 2008, 11:26 AM
Ash is still the best Test batsman we have. Despite his recent failures, I will stick to the statement.

In ODIs, he looks completely out of sorts, either blazing all the guns from the very first ball or completely bogged down, neither approach is acceptabe from an international player.

Murad
March 13, 2008, 11:31 AM
Clarke is 24, Flemming was made captain when 24. Ponting came into Aus team at the same age and I think Dhoni also. But their age did not hindered their development.

ASH is not. And like Fazal say please don't bring sentiments . it is a professional world. Why should I like if he does not contribute.

Please don't compare the BD playres with any other top team's players. HOw many batting coach did we provide to our batsmen just the way OZ or India provided to their batsmen? Can you name a few?

Most of our batsmen are/were doing bad for long long time. And they are correcting their problems by themselves. How can you expect him do to be consistent?

Whatmore used to avoid Ashraful. He didn't even talk to him for 8/9 months.

WE didin't have a good senior batsmen who could help his juniors. Tendu, Ponting, Dada all help their junior batsmen to correct their mistakes. Do we have anyone like them to help our batsmen?


BTW, TheBest, Do you also want to Ashraful to retire just like Fazal said?

Fazal
March 13, 2008, 11:36 AM
You could have said Drop him and keep him out of the team for some good years untill he starts performing consistently or whatever. (WHich I also want to see. I also want to see him getting dropped and play for A-team)



So you want me to be your Tota Pakhi and say whatever you wanr me to say?
Welcome to the internet my friend. You may disagree with my point of view.... but please don't tell me what I should say or not say... isn't it too much to expect from a fellow member?


And how can you just label him as a 20/20 player?

He has a strike rate of 43/44 in Test cricket. Does this looks like 20/20 to you? He has the most Test centuries in our country. Highest individual scores as well

wow he must be great. what is his average? Something to be proud of... something fans should brag about?

The future is ahead not behind my friend. Its not what a player have done in the past, its ore what a player is doing now and prgressing for the future.

You let the new kids play for 100+ plus games, then you will see who have and who don't have the capabilities to surprass those milestone.

If he doesn't know how to adjust his style, than still I will say his natural style is more suitable for 20/20 rather than TEST. As someone said before, he is our poor man's Afridi. Afridi also had few 100s in test you know....

Beamer
March 13, 2008, 11:47 AM
He would have been dropped and banished eons ago had he played for say, Australia, SA, India or any other major nations. But, he plays for BD and players of his caliber are hard to come by ,no matter how inconsistency continues to plague him. That is the reality. However, there are talented potential future match winners upcoming in the ranks now, something we didn't really have even a few years ago. Maybe, one day we will have enough of those players who are consistent enough to make Ash redundant if he continues to falter. Until then, he stays and we just have to keep our fingers crossed that he will come out of this phase.

Fazal
March 13, 2008, 11:51 AM
yes Beamer, you are right... thats why I said its a HARD question to ask...and there is not a clear answer to this question.... its a catch 20-20.

Hopefully in future we will have a answer one way or another.

Tigers_eye
March 13, 2008, 11:51 AM
Best test, ODI, T20 batsmen all know how to take singles, when to take singles. They know when to slog or press on the gas paddle also.

Now if you are comparing only BD players I don't think the bar can be set any lower than the ground itself.

The way Ash is playing nowadays, last six months, he looks like a T20 player to me. Better comparison would be as a tailender.

In the last 12 Intl innings (ODIs and Test) he is averaging 13.08. Has 3 zeros, 1 one, didn't cross 35 for once, 7 times got out in single digits.

thebest
March 13, 2008, 11:55 AM
Please don't compare the BD playres with any other top team's players. HOw many batting coach did we provide to our batsmen just the way OZ or India provided to their batsmen? Can you name a few?

Most of our batsmen are/were doing bad for long long time. And they are correcting their problems by themselves. How can you expect him do to be consistent?

Whatmore used to avoid Ashraful. He didn't even talk to him for 8/9 months.

WE didin't have a good senior batsmen who could help his juniors. Tendu, Ponting, Dada all help their junior batsmen to correct their mistakes. Do we have anyone like them to help our batsmen?


BTW, TheBest, Do you also want to Ashraful to retire just like Fazal said?
ok lets compare with Taibu Or our own Sakib
Here is the one
Match Run Avg
Taibu 96 1791 26.73
Sakib 39 1026 35.37
Ash 109 2024 21.76
And neither Taibu nor Sakib is considered as talented as Ash by the fan or so called experts.
But my complain is that he is not learning.
Regarding the second one, I am in a fix. My guts is with Fazal. Lets thank Ash for all those good memories. Age is in his side. So he could choose another profession. But logic says he has so little sense of learning that he could not learn the basics of any other job. that means cricket is the only way for his bread and butter.
May be selectors should drop him for some years

Miraz
March 13, 2008, 11:56 AM
yes Beamer, you are right... thats why I said its a HARD question to ask...and there is not a clear answer to this question.... its a catch 20-20.

Hopefully in future we will have a answer one way or another.

Or, catch 22?

Beamer
March 13, 2008, 11:59 AM
Fazal is in 20-20 mode.

billah
March 13, 2008, 12:02 PM
Or, catch 22?
I think that's a word play there, relates to Fazal's suggestion of keeping Ash for the 20-20 version only..:)

Murad
March 13, 2008, 12:03 PM
So you want me to be your Tota Pakhi and say whatever you wanr me to say?
Welcome to the internet my friend. You may disagree with my point of view.... but please don't tell me what I should say or not say... isn't it too much to expect from a fellow member?

wow he must be great. what is his average? Something to be proud of... something fans should brag about?

The future is ahead not behind my friend. Its not what a player have done in the past, its ore what a player is doing now and prgressing for the future.

You let the new kids play for 100+ plus games, then you will see who have and who don't have the capabilities to surprass those milestone.

If he doesn't know how to adjust his style, than still I will say his natural style is more suitable for 20/20 rather than TEST. As someone said before, he is our poor man's Afridi. Afridi also had few 100s in test you know....

Why would I want you to be a TOTA PAKHI. I'm not a stupid to ask you to say what i say.

I didn't ask you to say what I said. Ami bolechi apni erokom kichu bolte parten or anything except retiring. YOu cannot write off anyone. No matter how much fails or do whatever. You can only say it when you hate the person so much and you don't want to see his face anymore.

And you are also welcome to the internet, my friend. I've been using internet for last 11/12 years. So I know what it likes. I know how people act in internet.

Fazal
March 13, 2008, 01:41 PM
I didn't ask you to say what I said. Ami bolechi apni erokom kichu bolte parten or anything except retiring. YOu cannot write off anyone. No matter how much fails or do whatever. You can only say it when you hate the person so much and you don't want to see his face anymore.


So you think who suggested ChaCha, bashar, Gullu to retire hate those players? I respectfully disagree. They believe in the TEAM first concept and when they (some fans) felt that those players are hurting the team, they suggested their retirement. There is no 'hate' related to that suggestion. Looks like somehow you are stuck with that 'LOVE-HATE' issue, failed to see some people may not love/hate players the way you do....

btw if Ash was a good looking girl, then who knows I may start loving her ...

auntu
March 13, 2008, 02:22 PM
I am changing my stand a little bit...

Should he retire from both TEST and ODI and dedicate his career purely on 20-20?

Because that where his natural game will flourish (if any) without any need to adjust based on team's need.

im sure u r tellin this out of frustation. coz it not as wise comment as i thought u r. :-|

hope it's becoz d bad fillin coz that means .... not a good shout :-/

BANFAN
March 13, 2008, 03:48 PM
Ash has a lots of positives as a captain. But the questions we asked HB when he was not performing even though the team was not doing all that bad; Many including me felt logical to say that, a player has to be in the team first by performing as a batsman/bowler, then captaincy was secondary, We can't aford to have a non performing captain.

people have started asking that same old question and same logic should be applicable for Ash as well. If he does not perform, he can't remain the captain for eternity. But the hard question is when is that time? has it come or Ash deserves more time.

Though I am utterly disgusted with the kind of iresponsibility he has shown with the bat, but I personally think it is a bit premature to build pressure on him, he deserves more time, but he certainly should perform soon.

Soon???

Murad
March 13, 2008, 04:47 PM
So you think who suggested ChaCha, bashar, Gullu to retire hate those players? I respectfully disagree. They believe in the TEAM first concept and when they (some fans) felt that those players are hurting the team, they suggested their retirement. There is no 'hate' related to that suggestion. Looks like somehow you are stuck with that 'LOVE-HATE' issue, failed to see some people may not love/hate players the way you do....

btw if Ash was a good looking girl, then who knows I may start loving her ...

Why are you comparing him with all the bhuiras?

HB, CHacha, Gullu all are 35+ but ASh is only 24 yrs old. Ora onekdin dhore perform kortechilo na.. bhuira hoye chokhe o kom dekha shuru korche.. tai shobai odher ke retire korar jonne bolche.. ar apni ei picchi pola re koitachen retire korte.. jodi ashraful 30 er moto hoito then jodi ei kotha ta bolten ami/amra keo apnar sathe argue kortam na..

Ash 4 match aage o ekta Test century korche. 50 o ache ekta last oneday series e. ar HB and co didn't have any good score for more than 1 year or so. And you are comparing him them... haha.. funny you are.

anyways this is my last post here. no point in arguing on a nonsense subject. i'm sorry that i started qouting you.

peace!

Fazal
March 13, 2008, 05:11 PM
Why are you comparing him with all the bhuiras?

HB, CHacha, Gullu all are 35+ but ASh is only 24 yrs old. Ora onekdin dhore perform kortechilo na.. bhuira hoye chokhe o kom dekha shuru korche..
....
....

Ash 4 match aage o ekta Test century korche. 50 o ache ekta last oneday series e. ar HB and co didn't have any good score for more than 1 year or so. And you are comparing him them... haha.. funny you are.


I think I am not funny here... you may be having selective memory loss here.

Its fine to worship your idol. But that doesn't change the fact: and that is Bashar has better TEST average than Ash. And bashar was more consistent in his contribution through out his career. And now people wants Bashar out... and I agree with them.

Why Exception with Ash? When he (Ash) cannot produce, people will complain and want him out... thats natural....there is nothing to be offended....

the only issue is some fans may think still age is in his side and some may disagree that after playing 9+ years.... its not an advantage but shows sign that things will not be better. And there we may agree to disagee....

btw I agree that if this thread makes you too immotional then may be its better not to particpate in this thread. Your 'Abhiman' toward me gives me an indication that you think.... "Fazal Betyee Choor" for your idol's problems.