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View Full Version : Siddon's post match comments are disgraceful and detrimental for BD cricket


FHossain
February 26, 2008, 09:58 AM
I was shocked to read this. 8 years???? we need miracle to win? if thats his attitude then how can young players believe they can win. We were only 50 runs short of winning, how is a miracle required, rather a half century from just a batsmen. Im disgusted with siddons comments. It is rude, discouraging for players and a bad attitude. Get rid of him, he's a mockery. No one speaks like that about their coaching team. We need to realise this.

Following their five-wicket defeat in the first Test, Jamie Siddons, the Bangladesh coach, said he does not expect his side to beat South Africa unless a miracle occurs.

Siddons said the Bangladesh batsmen were not used to batting against the sort of pace generated by South Africa's fast bowlers. "They [the batsmen] go from playing for their clubs in the National League to trying to take on the best fast bowler in the world. [Dale] Steyn kept striking in the first few overs and we never recovered. We spent the [whole] Test trying to recover all the time. He [Steyn] ripped us apart in the second innings with 150 kph outswingers [to the right-handers] or inswingers to the left-handers."

"When your batsmen are out of confidence and having to play against Steyn, Morne Morkel or Makhaya Ntini, that is a tough assignment. The pressure they transmitted is too much for our batsmen at the moment. Their bowlers were just too good for our batsmen."

Despite the loss, Siddons was not keen on changing the squad for the second Test. "You've got to give young players time. I think they have the talent to improve, even if it takes eight years.

riaz131
February 26, 2008, 10:05 AM
Oh CR$P:sick::o:sick:; that means we have to see Habla GAZI once again on the field!!!!!!!!!:-/

ammark
February 26, 2008, 10:07 AM
Truth hurts, eh? real deep? Where did he touch you?

Its incredibly unfair to link his decision on sticking wholly with the first test team and him predicting about the younger and future players. Jamie Siddons is correct in everything he said, and it is NOT disgraceful and detrimental because its true. It should be everyone's focus to improve from this state, not condemn him for stating what is true!

I'll tell you what was disgraceful: the way us fans got all overjoyed with rajib's wonders in the 1st innings, and Junaid's 64* at stumps of the SECOND DAY. This is Test cricket, and you guys let yourselves down thinking that we'd sustain it for three more days!

There were other things that were detrimental too: The poor team selection, HaBa's inclusion, Mashrafee not being his best, Mushfique not being the cleanest behind the stumps, and the consistently collapsing batting line up.

Wake up everyone.

riaz131
February 26, 2008, 10:07 AM
I agree with Siddon on all his comments except not changing the team. Someone please tell me... I know that our bawlers can't go over 135 or such, but how come we can't produce the speed with machine?

Tigers_eye
February 26, 2008, 10:10 AM
Yes he is correct. Junaid is a miracle landed in our lap out of nowhere. Don't know how long this will last (See SN). Enjoying the ride anyways.

With current teams performance we need another few miracles to happen.

1) Selectors get in to senses (Will never happen unless a miracle ...) I am ready to see HB in the team for the entire 2008 season. May be he will get a recall in ODIs who knows. Three cheers for the selectors hip!! hip!! ....(why are you guys silent?)

2) Ash's mental lapse while batting (So many years has passed still having mental lapse. Only miraculously that can be fixed)

3) Mash's recovery (coming back to form). When did he have a significance bowling performance in test last time? Didn't he say he needs to learn reverse swing from Malinga last time we toured SL? (need a miracle to get a Mash with fire under his belly) He psychologically knows before hand when we can and can not win a test. Way to go VC. His bowling action with arm tucked in does not help either. Where is his follow through swinging left arm? Injury happens for a reason.

4) SN mediocre will continue unless he thinks 25 is not a good score.

You need more I can keep on typing. Just let me know.

Truth hurts!! That is what frustrated coach just said. Either the players prove him wrong or eat the dust. Time after time if players continue to do the same mistakes (throw away their wickets) what would a coach do? Bat himself?

riaz131
February 26, 2008, 10:14 AM
well said tigers_eye!!!

FHossain
February 26, 2008, 10:17 AM
its not the point, the coach can't portray that, the players will be disencouraged and it kinda tells them look your sh*t so unless a miracle happens then you'l get beaten. Well wats the point in you lot watching them or supporting them. Thats not right for a coach to say that, especially after they came close to winning. Its not miracle, just a half century by 1 other batsmen!!!!!!!!

ammark
February 26, 2008, 10:19 AM
its not the point, the coach can't portray that, the players will be disencouraged and it kinda tells them look your sh*t so unless a miracle happens then you'l get beaten. Well wats the point in you lot watching them or supporting them. Thats not right for a coach to say that, especially after they came close to winning. Its not miracle, just a half century by 1 other batsmen!!!!!!!!

They didnt come NEAR to winning Squat. The winners in our team were Rajib, Junaid and Rafique Mama. No one else won. Stop crying because you're emotional and hurting.

- as myself

sharifk
February 26, 2008, 10:19 AM
As much as I believe that Siddons' approach to forming (baring HB) the team, and his plans for the future are the right ones, I must also disagree to his such comment about the incapability of the team....it's disappointing to hear such negative comment about our players even if the statement is true....it makes it harder for the young players to believe in themselves....if his intention is to make the player anger and to motivate them, it may be acceptable, but if he has made the comment for the fans to setup realistic expecations it isn't the professional way to do it....it shouldn't be his job anyway....let the bcb management deal with the problem...

this type of thread to bash him is unnecessary, nontheless....if has done a mistake, let's take a good path of critcism so that even he can learn a thing or to correct himself for the future...

FHossain
February 26, 2008, 10:23 AM
They didnt come NEAR to winning Squat. The winners in our team were Rajib, Junaid and Rafique Mama. No one else won. Stop crying because you're emotional and hurting.

- as myself

Did you see the game????? they won at 205-5!!!!!!! means if we set 260 we stood a brilliant chance to win. Thats close. Grow up, not crying just concerned. You really don't understand much yet your a moderator????

ammark
February 26, 2008, 10:24 AM
it's disappointing to hear such negative comment about our players even if the statement is true....it makes it harder for the young players to believe in themselves....if his intention is to make the player anger and to motivate them, it may be acceptable, but if he has made the comment for the fans to setup realistic expecations it isn't the professional way to do it....it shouldn't be his job anyway....let the bcb management deal with the problem...

possibly. But he has been consistently in the media (including this evening's "Frankly Speaking" on NTV) telling us his thoughts because he's been asked. He's very supportive of the youngsters, he loves his job, and he knows its a tough task. He has consistently blamed the media for putting this sort of pressure on the young guys. :)

Tigers_eye
February 26, 2008, 10:26 AM
Dear FHossain,
No, this is sending a message to the fans and media. Lower your expectation and the truth is we are not yet international standard yet to compete day in day out. Just because SA didn't perform they way they should (1st innings), we had an openning. Read my signature. See how much more I expected from the players. EVEN WITH HB IN THE LINEUP. Look at the the wins we had (ODI). We compete when others can't perform. we win when a miracle happens (Ash's innings). 50 more runs is easy to say, hard to get against those bowlers. We have still a lot more to learn. Be patient it will happen. Let them grow up a little. Try to accept the criticizm.

akabir77
February 26, 2008, 10:26 AM
Why you don't wanna wait 8 years? going some where? it took 23 years for NZ, India and some others. And it should take more than that as we are playing double the test they played. So chill out.

sharifk
February 26, 2008, 10:30 AM
possibly. But he has been consistently in the media (including this evening's "Frankly Speaking" on NTV) telling us his thoughts because he's been asked. He's very supportive of the youngsters, he loves his job, and he knows its a tough task. He has consistently blamed the media for putting this sort of pressure on the young guys. :)

my question still will be: what's the purpose of the statement? was he trying to help the players or to setup people's expecations? or just giving honest answers that you are suggesting...even if it's just for honesty, he still must be careful of any statement that may have possible negative impact of players' mind.....having said that i again still think we must not be too harsh on him with a thread like this at so early stage of his tenure

Tigers_eye
February 26, 2008, 10:31 AM
In eight years our 20ish boys would be 28ish. prime for cricket. :) My hope is these boys will grow up to be the best in the world.

FHossain
February 26, 2008, 10:31 AM
I'm disapointed, the caoch has basically said we are crap and will take 8 years and you all want to accept that, not realising the detrimental effect that has on current players and futre. I can't pursue this thread with minds that tolerate our national coach speaking like that. if you all think the same then don't watch or discuss the next test as if its a miracle you think is required well they don't happen often.

sharifk
February 26, 2008, 10:34 AM
Dear FHossain,
No, this is sending a message to the fans and media. Lower your expectation and the truth is we are not yet international standard yet to compete day in day out. Just because SA didn't perform they way they should (1st innings), we had an openning. Read my signature. See how much more I expected from the players. EVEN WITH HB IN THE LINEUP. Look at the the wins we had (ODI). We compete when others can't perform. we win when a miracle happens (Ash's innings). 50 more runs is easy to say, hard to get against those bowlers. We have still a lot more to learn. Be patient it will happen. Let them grow up a little. Try to accept the criticizm.

T_e, that's what I suspect too. But shouldn't it be someone else's job to manage fans' and medias' expectations? is he taking too much on himself that may have impacts to his real job of coaching?

Fazal
February 26, 2008, 10:35 AM
You need more I can keep on typing. Just let me know.


Yes we need more. Keep on typing please.....


Siddon is comming from a different angle, not biased by any previous memories that we fans have for particular players. He is also not going to change his mind in a whimsical way that we fans often do based on which side of the bed we wake up. He will be patient, he knows reality and the limitation ( unlike fans who often confuses between reality and fantasy land) and will give enough time to the current players to correct themsleves. But when he will make up his mind about certain players, i.e. the players who refuse to learn from mistakes and refuse to adapt and improvise, there will be a point when these players will be in his dog house. And when they go to his dog house, these players will never see the light again as long as he is coaching. Its not going to be "dropped for one game" and returned back to the team, it will be "dropped for atleast few years".

Fazal
February 26, 2008, 10:41 AM
What next? What else we expect from Siddon? To pamper the players? Sing lullaby to the players so that they have a good nap? Does he need to change their diapers also?


I can see some fans and media make a big issue out of nothing that will prompt to kick Siddon out of the country like they did to GG. And then we will have another Mohsin Kamal type coach again. And every body will be happy. No body wants to hear the truth that hurts.... Mill Mohobbot e boro kotha... even if its based on a lie.

FHossain
February 26, 2008, 10:51 AM
no, just be professional. do not discourage young players, instead, give them belief, encourage and certainly dont talk lke that in the media as hes representing our players, he has no intention for the best of BD cricket if he can talk like that. Zimbabwe and ireland are on similar levels to us, mayvbe a bit lower but their coach wouldnt talk like that cos its just not professional. u all agree with siddons purely because he is australian, therefore u automatically respect him and fear to question him even if its at the expense of ur own players integrity infront of world cricket.

ahms
February 26, 2008, 10:52 AM
I was shocked to read this. 8 years???? we need miracle to win? if thats his attitude then how can young players believe they can win. We were only 50 runs short of winning, how is a miracle required, rather a half century from just a batsmen. Im disgusted with siddons comments. It is rude, discouraging for players and a bad attitude. Get rid of him, he's a mockery. No one speaks like that about their coaching team. We need to realise this.

Following their five-wicket defeat in the first Test, Jamie Siddons, the Bangladesh coach, said he does not expect his side to beat South Africa unless a miracle occurs.

Siddons said the Bangladesh batsmen were not used to batting against the sort of pace generated by South Africa's fast bowlers. "They [the batsmen] go from playing for their clubs in the National League to trying to take on the best fast bowler in the world. [Dale] Steyn kept striking in the first few overs and we never recovered. We spent the [whole] Test trying to recover all the time. He [Steyn] ripped us apart in the second innings with 150 kph outswingers [to the right-handers] or inswingers to the left-handers."

"When your batsmen are out of confidence and having to play against Steyn, Morne Morkel or Makhaya Ntini, that is a tough assignment. The pressure they transmitted is too much for our batsmen at the moment. Their bowlers were just too good for our batsmen."

Despite the loss, Siddons was not keen on changing the squad for the second Test. "You've got to give young players time. I think they have the talent to improve, even if it takes eight years.

I do not see anything wrong in his statement. He just trying to take the pressure off our batsman.

FHossain
February 26, 2008, 10:54 AM
taking pressure off by saying theyre sh*t? please explain how that works, cant quite grasp that justification.

Fazal
February 26, 2008, 10:55 AM
If you are looking for that kind of coach don't look for Siddon, look for Mohsin Kamal type coach. He is a smooth talker, he will charm every body. But can he coach ? Who cares? Tooks like that is non issue to some folks. Baby sitting the national team players is the main jon. No?

lamisa
February 26, 2008, 10:58 AM
I'm disapointed, the caoch has basically said we are crap and will take 8 years and you all want to accept that, not realising the detrimental effect that has on current players and futre. I can't pursue this thread with minds that tolerate our national coach speaking like that. if you all think the same then don't watch or discuss the next test as if its a miracle you think is required well they don't happen often.

look man,it wont disheartedn any bd player.:-Pits alright,they dont have shame.siddons ajke mediate bolse,but dont u think ei ekii kotha aro kharap bhabe onno keu oder bolse?oder gaye lage na.i had a cousin working for bcb.she told me je oder onnek kisui bola hoy but ora ek kan diye dhukay r arek kan diye bair kore.jai howk,ador kore oder shikhanor cheshtha kora hoise onek,na shikle eigula koray toh kono dosh nai.anyways,siddons spoke the truth.:doh:

Ehsan
February 26, 2008, 11:02 AM
There are multiple reasons for his statement but it revolves around accepting reality. I see it as purely psychological therapy through the media. I don't know how he is dealing with players directly, it could be different than what he is talking to media. Ofcourse, he would not go to Ash directly and say you suck.

1) To make batsmen and bowlers realize their limitations, and play accordingly. Specially most of our young batsmen fly in the air, imagine themselves as superheros, and try to hit every ball for 4 or 6. He is giving a message to our batsmen to be realistic and play according to the situation. If he can make them do it then it would be a miracle. :)

2) Lower the expectation of such huge fan base, and media. This will allow the batsmen to play their game without any pressure. Further, if your expectation is low then it would not matter much if you lose badly.

FHossain
February 26, 2008, 11:03 AM
have u ever heard the coaches from england and india to ireland and zimbabwe ever slate their teams publicly in such a manner? no, they may say similar stuff in the dressing rm but not to the media because the reprecussion are huge, think of the effect that siddons comments will have as regards to s.africa for teh next test. its not babysitting, just professionalism and being tactile, like i said u all agree with siddons purely because he is australian, therefore u automatically respect him and fear to question him even if its at the expense of ur own players integrity infront of world cricket.

sharifk
February 26, 2008, 11:05 AM
If you are looking for that kind of coach don't look for Siddon, look for Mohsin Kamal type coach. He is a smooth talker, he will charm every body. But can he coach ? Who cares? Tooks like that is non issue to some folks. Baby sitting the national team players is the main jon. No?

Fazal, baby sitting and not saying negative things about players' capabilities aren't the same.....IMO FHossain has broght up a good point that as a coach of the team he shouldn't be saying things that can hurt players mentally which may have performance impact even though I don't agree to bash Siddons so strongly at such early stage of his involvement....but we shouldn't bash FHossain as well just for bringing up a good point.

Fazal
February 26, 2008, 11:08 AM
Bad example.

Have you seen england and india loosing so many test matches in a row and so badly (most of them)? The condition of those teams are not as bleak as ours. So if the coach of those team say something like Siddon that will be a 'LIE' not the thruth. And there lies the difference,

ammark
February 26, 2008, 11:09 AM
no, just be professional. do not discourage young players, instead, give them belief, encourage and certainly dont talk lke that in the media as hes representing our players, he has no intention for the best of BD cricket if he can talk like that. Zimbabwe and ireland are on similar levels to us, mayvbe a bit lower but their coach wouldnt talk like that cos its just not professional. u all agree with siddons purely because he is australian, therefore u automatically respect him and fear to question him even if its at the expense of ur own players integrity infront of world cricket.

Cool down. Siddons didnt call them "sh*t" anywhere. He's not demoralising them with tough words, or negative impressions yet. Not on the field as their coach or off it in front of the media. He's been very factual and almost taking a third person perspective from what I understood watching his interview today.

He criticised Ash and Aftab's dismissal of the first innings because they got out when they lost their temperament. On the other hand he thoroughly praised Rajib for listening to him, bowling the right line and length. He has admitted that he hasnt seen the U-19 members so he cant make a comment specifically about them being our immediate future, but he is impressed with the lot he's working with. He specifically stated that we arent the same league as S.A and Aus (which you have to concede). Therefore it will take time for our players to improve, and our "standard" to improve.

Please stop jumping to conclusions that "if he says 8 years, then we're basically sh*t and demoralising the team". He's the coach, he's interacting with them every day now, if he wants to demoralise them, he doesnt need to do it in front of the media. He has pretty neutrally said that our standard is still quite low, his observation, and pretty factual if you compare to most of the other Test playing teams.

FHossain
February 26, 2008, 11:11 AM
also included was ireland and zimbabwe, read carefully, ur missing the point, if bangladesh play badly, siddions does need to have words with them, be harsh may be appropriate but NOT PUBLIC SLATING, the whole of the cricket world hears that, gives future competitors arrogance. so in other words, in support of siddions, u are agreeing that to beat test playing teams, we need miracles and wer are 8 whole yrs away from doing so. seriously? y arent u understanding this as a ridiculous speech given.

Fazal
February 26, 2008, 11:14 AM
Fazal, baby sitting and not saying negative things about players' capabilities aren't the same.....IMO FHossain has broght up a good point that as a coach of the team he shouldn't be saying things that can hurt players mentally which may have performance impact even though I don't agree to bash Siddons so strongly at such early stage of his involvement....but we shouldn't bash FHossain as well just for bringing up a good point.

I see nothing wrorng in Siddon's assessment. IF it hurts some player's feeling, he he/they shouldn't be in the national team. And may be thats the root cause of our players. who are too mentally fragile to accept the reality. Bay be thats why we see players unable to adjust to game situation. We pampered these players too much.

We are not bashing FHossain. We are discussing the topic here.

ammark
February 26, 2008, 11:15 AM
To all, I do think NTV will air a rerun of the Jamie Siddons face to face interview from this evening. I'd much appreciate it if someone could record it and youtube it. :)

Fazal
February 26, 2008, 11:17 AM
also included was ireland and zimbabwe, read carefully, ur missing the point, if bangladesh play badly, siddions does need to have words with them, be harsh may be appropriate but NOT PUBLIC SLATING, the whole of the cricket world hears that, gives future competitors arrogance. so in other words, in support of siddions, u are agreeing that to beat test playing teams, we need miracles and wer are 8 whole yrs away from doing so. seriously? y arent u understanding this as a ridiculous speech given.

Ya ... looks like the WHOLE world are not capable to follow score cards they need Siddon's remark to make up their own opinion about BD cricket. Wow Siddon is so powerfull and the 'WHOLE WORLD' is soo dumb, I didn't know that.

BanCricFan
February 26, 2008, 11:19 AM
To be honest, some of the stuff Siddon communicates through the media are quite bizarre and strange...I would like to give him the benefit of doubt though.

Perhaps, we need a few more series to get a better understanding of him.

FHossain
February 26, 2008, 11:19 AM
fazal, we can't improve by siddons slating the team like that, so what happens if bang win the next test? post 400, like bcb ix did, bowll sa for 250 like we can, post 200, set 350 and bowl them out for 300 and win. this is not fantasy or dream, this is fact, the 400 happened in the BCB warmup, the 250 all out we can do as proven in Mirpur, 200 in second innings we can post as we always do anyway and bowling them out under 300 is feasible aswell as we had them at 200 for 5 in Mirpur again. so therefore is tis a miracle or is it very much in reach, is this feb 29th 2008 or is it in 8 yrs time? read my message carefully and think before u respond

Tigers_eye
February 26, 2008, 11:20 AM
T_e, that's what I suspect too. But shouldn't it be someone else's job to manage fans' and medias' expectations? is he taking too much on himself that may have impacts to his real job of coaching?
From day one when it was announced Siddons will be coaching BD national team most of the fans and media knew he didn't have a magic wand and fix all the issues BD team had and win tests in regular interval. Yet, fans (including me) and media wants BD to win against strong teams right now. On the other hand, from day one Siddons is saying the same old thing, with this talent it willl take time. May be beyond his two years of contract. We are ready to grade him six months in to his job with the performance of the players. He has done an excellent job with Aftab, Shakib, Junaid, Tamim. That is your core. Now if he can fix Ash's mental lapses we will compete against others.

That is why he is so involved and determined to make men out of these boys. Media and fans expectation is standing in his way. He will fight that and tell it as it is.

Team improves gradually. Not over night. Great to see Shahadat's hard work paying off. Others need to follow him specially batsmen.

ammark
February 26, 2008, 11:22 AM
also included was ireland and zimbabwe, read carefully, ur missing the point, if bangladesh play badly, siddions does need to have words with them, be harsh may be appropriate but NOT PUBLIC SLATING, the whole of the cricket world hears that, gives future competitors arrogance. so in other words, in support of siddions, u are agreeing that to beat test playing teams, we need miracles and wer are 8 whole yrs away from doing so. seriously? y arent u understanding this as a ridiculous speech given.

Because watching Siddons speak, I DEFINITELY did not get that impression of him. I found him to be thoroughly positive about our team.

Its your conclusions about Siddons, you're asking us to agree to, instead of judging for ourselves... thats really stretching it, isnt it? :)

Miraz
February 26, 2008, 11:23 AM
To be honest, some of the stuff Siddon communicates through the media are quite bizarre and strange...I would like to give him the benefit of doubt though.

Perhaps, we need a few more series to get a better understanding of him.

Could not agree more.

It's a bit early to pass a comment.

Team is showing signs of improvement. I don't mind these words if that results in better performance.

Fazal
February 26, 2008, 11:26 AM
fazal, we can't improve by siddons slating the team like that, so what happens if bang win the next test? post 400, like bcb ix did, bowll sa for 250 like we can, post 200, set 350 and bowl them out for 300 and win. this is not fantasy or dream, this is fact, the 400 happened in the BCB warmup, the 250 all out we can do as proven in Mirpur, 200 in second innings we can post as we always do anyway and bowling them out under 300 is feasible aswell as we had them at 200 for 5 in Mirpur again. so therefore is tis a miracle or is it very much in reach, is this feb 29th 2008 or is it in 8 yrs time? read my message carefully and think before u respond

FHossain;, may be you need to read his interview few more times and drink a glass of water before have these kind of knee jerk reaction.

As few said, its too early to judge Siddon's performance and contribution. He may not handled all the questions right in previous interviews, but I see no reason to baby sit our national players. If they cannot handle criticism, may be they are not mentally tough enough to play in the higest level. may be we need different group of players in future who will take us to the next level. There is no crying in TEST matches.

What next, our players will start crying and complain that it hurts their feeling when they are being sledged by opponent players ?

KnightBD
February 26, 2008, 11:27 AM
Because watching Siddons speak, I DEFINITELY did not get that impression of him. I found him to be thoroughly positive about our team.

Its your conclusions about Siddons, you're asking us to agree to, instead of judging for ourselves... thats really stretching it, isnt it? :)
ditto.
Siddon is obviously more professional than any of us in BC ;)
However, I would also like to see Rajin to replace Bashar and Pilot to replace Mushi. Thats my thought, but I am 100% with the coach as he is the one chosen to lead us for next two years. I am confident we will be a better team in the end :saint:

skhondoker
February 26, 2008, 11:29 AM
I think he is a tough cookie. He is indeed IMO, making players mind to be stronger. He is letting his desire know that he wants to be with this core of players. He is right in sticking with the side and after repeated failures by any individual, he probably would eliminate them. His desire to be sticking with this core players is actually a boost mentally to the players. I really believe, soon we are going to see big scores consistently from a few individuals. I clearly saw some changes towards their approach in batting this time.

my question still will be: what's the purpose of the statement? was he trying to help the players or to setup people's expecations? or just giving honest answers that you are suggesting...even if it's just for honesty, he still must be careful of any statement that may have possible negative impact of players' mind.....having said that i again still think we must not be too harsh on him with a thread like this at so early stage of his tenure

FHossain
February 26, 2008, 11:30 AM
wat is your obsession with crying etc. If you agree with siddons then y do u want to watch or hear the 2nd test, cos according to siddons we need miracle and anything good in the test will be minimal until 8 years. Coach's job!!!! professional!!! encourage, nothing about bd players crying!!!! stop being so ignorent of the point i am raising!!!!!!

ripon
February 26, 2008, 11:31 AM
well dont you think erm speaking the truth will motivate the players to prove him wrong by playing much better than they are doing right now? come on for the last years the coaches have said we will improve more as we play, but are we that is the real question. speaking reality might give an advantage into playing more sucessfully in test arena for the players. please correct me if im wrong.

sharifk
February 26, 2008, 11:33 AM
I see nothing wrorng in Siddon's assessment. IF it hurts some player's feeling, he he/they shouldn't be in the national team. And may be thats the root cause of our players. who are too mentally fragile to accept the reality. Bay be thats why we see players unable to adjust to game situation. We pampered these players too much.

We are not bashing FHossain. We are discussing the topic here.

I don't agree with you there....coaches do and also need to pamper, yell and all sort of things to players based on need....but psycological impacts can never be under-estmated....great coaches always know how to motivate even at the toughest times....otherwise great coaches won't go and find videos of great moments and many other things prior to a game to motivate players and make them believe.... i have many reasons to believe that siddons is a great coach but i surely don't agree with such statement of him as i know it can hurt players believeing in their capabilities....but i will give the benefit of doubt to siddons this time especially since we have many impractical fans and not to mention of our media...

skhondoker
February 26, 2008, 11:34 AM
Just look, he is talking reality and in the same time he is defending players infront of the media and the world. He is going to bring wonders to our team. No doubt in my mind. Also, FHossain, you should be accustomed to our loss by now!

akabir77
February 26, 2008, 11:35 AM
ditto.
Siddon is obviously more professional than any of us in BC ;)


Sorry can't agree with you on that. why is he more professional?:timeout:

ripon
February 26, 2008, 11:36 AM
Just look, he is talking reality and in the same time he is defending players infront of the media and the world. He is going to bring wonders to our team. No doubt in my mind. Also, FHossain, you should be accustomed to our loss by now! i agree very much, we cannot carry on with the same speeches by the coaches every single test therafter 'we will improve more and more' its just not going to happen being negative is better with the team .

skhondoker
February 26, 2008, 11:49 AM
He should be, he is the one who is getting paid to be the professional coach for the team. None of us in BC are not paid to be professional.


Siddon is obviously more professional than any of us in BC ;)

akabir77
February 26, 2008, 11:56 AM
Shomosha 1: the coach and captain says the same thing we will improve after every loss
Shomosha 2: the coach says we are bad and need miracle to win

Whats the shomadhan. Keo ki bolben jey coacher ki bola uchit? bhalo korbo boleo chillachilli, amra khara ai shotto shunbo na. May be Chillachilli kora ekta obhash...

arafath79
February 26, 2008, 12:01 PM
3) Mash's recovery (coming back to form). When did he have a significance bowling performance in test last time? Didn't he say he needs to learn reverse swing from Malinga last time we toured SL? (need a miracle to get a Mash with fire under his belly) He psychologically knows before hand when we can and can not win a test. Way to go VC. His bowling action with arm tucked in does not help either. Where is his follow through swinging left arm? Injury happens for a reason.



Very well said Tiger's Eye!

Well Mashrafe did bowl well in the 2 test match series against New Zealand. He was trying to bowl with the speed of 131-133 kmph consistently in the second innings against South Africa which was not good enough.Why Mashrafe can't bowl with speed of 135-138 kmp with the new ball in his first spell ??? New ball will always have seam movement and Mashrafe should put more than 100% effort to bowl faster with good line and lenght in his first 5 overs. I saw him bowling consistently with speed of 135-140 kmp (85-88mph) recently against India. But he can't continue that performance in every match. :(

sharifk
February 26, 2008, 12:12 PM
Shomosha 1: the coach and captain says the same thing we will improve after every loss
Shomosha 2: the coach says we are bad and need miracle to win

Whats the shomadhan. Keo ki bolben jey coacher ki bola uchit? bhalo korbo boleo chillachilli, amra khara ai shotto shunbo na. May be Chillachilli kora ekta obhash...

everyone speaks differently so instead of going in specifics, here are two important areas that he needs to relay to the media:

1. where improvements have been made
2. areas of weaknesses or (even better) identified areas that need attention

CricketCrazzie
February 26, 2008, 12:12 PM
ditto.
Siddon is obviously more professional than any of us in BC ;)
However, I would also like to see Rajin to replace Bashar and Pilot to replace Mushi. Thats my thought, but I am 100% with the coach as he is the one chosen to lead us for next two years. I am confident we will be a better team in the end :saint:

I second this comment. Also, I believe that a coach should be like this. I am a avid fan of American Footbal and Basketball. Time over time I have seen coaches making such comments. There can be two reasons for it. One - stating the players' obvious lack of intellligence and lack of intention to learn from previous mistakes, and/or, Two - Lighting fire under the players' a**es so that next time they take everything seriously. As for the point ONE- I think our players are complacent with the status and their skills right now. If that's not the case, how can you make the same mistake over and over, over and over, over and over again. It's frustrating to see these players who aleady have 25-30 real test experience making the same stupid mistake.
Also, we need to stop babysitting HABLU. He served us long and he served us great. But it's time for him to go. Bah-bye Hablu!!! If we need to baby sit, I would rather babysit someone younger - let it be anyone who has been performing in our domestic league!

al Furqaan
February 26, 2008, 12:24 PM
i found his comments a bit strange as well...but lets remember that they are snippets from the press conference. thats the CI reports it. we don't have an official transrcipt. siddons has seemed to improve rajib's bowling, lets see what else he can do. i see good signs from aftab, and have always felt that ashraful will come good as well. ash is scoring more 30s nowadays, and getting fewer ducks. u can't go from scoring mostly ducks at teens to cracking half centuries and tons. at least not when ur so young. in another year or two, we should see ashraful keep his current consistency, but increase the scores he's getting.

akabir77
February 26, 2008, 12:38 PM
everyone speaks differently so instead of going in specifics, here are two important areas that he needs to relay to the media:

1. where improvements have been made
2. areas of weaknesses or (even better) identified areas that need attention

But if you state your weakness like that wouldn't it let the other teams like zimbo and IR an upper hand? I mean the bigger teams already knows but why make their task easy by saying who has what fault...

and he is not in the court he was facing media...

Some years back all our reporters where on top of Mcinees for saying we don't have more than 2 coaches which was correct. but the reporters started saying we have tons of coaches (when none of them had any certificates)...

akabir77
February 26, 2008, 12:39 PM
Very well said Tiger's Eye!

Well Mashrafe did bowl well in the 2 test match series against New Zealand. He was trying to bowl with the speed of 131-133 kmph consistently in the second innings against South Africa which was not good enough.Why Mashrafe can't bowl with speed of 135-138 kmp with the new ball in his first spell ??? New ball will always have seam movement and Mashrafe should put more than 100% effort to bowl faster with good line and lenght in his first 5 overs. I saw him bowling consistently with speed of 135-140 kmp (85-88mph) recently against India. But he can't continue that performance in every match. :(

Masher money Bhoy dhuksey. Eta ber kora dorker joto taratari shombhob...

ammark
February 26, 2008, 12:44 PM
What next, our players will start crying and complain that it hurts their feeling when they are being sledged by opponent players ?

I like this sentence. Very pointy :lol:

sharifk
February 26, 2008, 12:49 PM
But if you state your weakness like that wouldn't it let the other teams like zimbo and IR an upper hand? I mean the bigger teams already knows but why make their task easy by saying who has what fault...


perhaps i should have clarified a little....a professional must know what to give away and what not to give away...so even though we must analyze the technical weaknesses we shouldn't disclose those in public....instead disclose the outcome of such weaknesses...in another word, we must analyze and find the root causes and eliminate them but when speaking in public let's just focus on the symptoms...

Murad
February 26, 2008, 01:17 PM
I don't see anything wrong with Siddons comments.

Whatever he said is very realistic. Our media is too much sometimes. The way they write the reports like we are Australia and we have to win all the matches we play. We cannot lose any. Pathetic reporters. Also us fans.

However, he sometimes make some funny comments which he shouldn't make. Example: "Mushy will be the Golden Boy of Bangladesh cricket" by saying this he just make fun of himself. He shouldnt make such comments. It doesn't suit with his images. He's been with the Bangladesh cricket just for 2 months now. But I guess he is learning now.

I want him to make more comments like the ones he did today. That way we fans and the media people will learn about our position in the cricket world.

He should insult the players more and more. That way they will learn.

Kothai ache na amra bangalira lathi na khaile thik hoi na...

Dhakablues
February 26, 2008, 01:29 PM
First, I think if someone thinks that BC members have less intellectual horse-power, perhaps the person is speaking for himself/herself. Amongst us, we have few Phds, professors, distinguished engineers and professionals working at Fortune 100 companies. Some even makes more money than Jamie Siddons.. so dont underestimate the group.

Second and most importantly, I think Siddons should be sensitive to the culture and speak less. Greg Chappell like greats couldnt sustain here due to cultural differences and it is not easy to just speak your mind and the press will understand your analogies. This is the first assignment for Siddons outside Australia, its different, its tough and its sensitive. He speaks too much but it does nothing to inspire the team or the fans as it used to during Watmore days.

Third, I think BC members are smart enough to filter out what Press says about Siddons. Daily Star is a joker, Prothom Alo is a Cartoon, Janakantha and others are pretty much copying each others writings,, none gives you genuine news. But I think BCB should ask Siddons to be careful of what he says. He has no right to demean our cricket or the fans. He has the right to improve the results and in 3 months we have not seen anything different than what we have seen for the last 3-4 years. He has not presented us a win, nor has he given us extended Test sessions by his favorite players. On his way to Chittagong, he should pay attention to Fouzdarhat Cadet College sign that shines white and clear...,,," Kotha noy Kaj"

ripon
February 26, 2008, 01:35 PM
Second and most importantly, I think Siddons should be sensitive to the culture and speak less. Greg Chappell like greats couldnt sustain here due to cultural differences and it is not easy to just speak your mind and the press will understand your analogies. does culture and cricket really mix siddons is talking tough here i think our culture is more powerful than thier culture dont you think it is more richer and brighter, so i think he is in a right move you have to toughen out the players in the team because they are really young. its the only solution at the moment i believe .

kalpurush
February 26, 2008, 01:38 PM
However, he sometimes make some funny comments which he shouldn't make. Example: "Mushy will be the Golden Boy of Bangladesh cricket" by saying this he just make fun of himself. He shouldnt make such comments. It doesn't suit with his images. ...
I think JS is right about Mushy. JS said it might take 8 years for us to be a competitive team. In 8 years, Mushy would be a Golden Boy...just keep faith.:)

ammark
February 26, 2008, 01:44 PM
does culture and cricket really mix siddons is talking tough here i think our culture is more powerful than thier culture dont you think it is more richer and brighter, so i think he is in a right move you have to toughen out the players in the team because they are really young. its the only solution at the moment i believe .

Lets not digress this thread into being an ethnocentric or "my culture is better than yours" thread.


Second and most importantly, I think Siddons should be sensitive to the culture and speak less. Greg Chappell like greats couldnt sustain here due to cultural differences and it is not easy to just speak your mind and the press will understand your analogies. This is the first assignment for Siddons outside Australia, its different, its tough and its sensitive. He speaks too much but it does nothing to inspire the team or the fans as it used to during Watmore days.

To this I will reply... there were many things whatmore said/did that ticked us fans off too. His tactlessness in dealing with BCCI etc. If it is a cultural thing, then yes Siddons, Whatmore, Chappell do come from a culture where they are in your face and openly criticise if they see something wrong. On the other hand, our subcontinental culture tends to take much criticism as offense.

But there really is no substantial alternative to "Kotha Noy, Kaaj" :)

RazabQ
February 26, 2008, 01:47 PM
As myself:

Sharif and FHossai, I think your anger at the coach stems from a belief that no-matter what, a coach should never publicly say anything bad about the team. That approach has its merits at time. But it can also lead to coddling - something I don't think our team needs. We saw how far we could get ahead with the master motivator Dav. For us to move to the next level we need to be tougher. Aussie sportsmen are a hard-nosed bunch who believe in "no crying in baseball". In that sense Siddons is the right person IMHO.

A point to ponder: If you recall, most fans here were crying for Richard McInnis to be the coach because he is a tough disciplinarian who would speak bluntly to media and players. So why are we complaining about someone whose CV is even more impressive and whose approach is similar?

Just because I don't see my team winning for 8 more years doesn't mean I'd stop following them. If so, the BoSox would have won their 1st world series in an empty stadium. ChiSox waiting list wouldn't be 2 generations long. For me, I'll continue to look for small victories and an upward tracectory.

As for bowling machines to emulate Steyn, no machine can emulate late swing or reverse swing (unsure about seam). And it's Steyn's subtle movements and dip that make him so good - witness SN's 2nd innings LBW.

As mod:
when an individual has explicitly stated that he's speaking as himself, refrain from attacking his other "official" roles here. Mods often will subjugate their personal preference to enforce forum standards.

sharifk
February 26, 2008, 01:54 PM
As myself:

Sharif and FHossai, I think your anger at the coach stems from a belief that no-matter what, a coach should never publicly say anything bad about the team.

RazabQ, I am not sure as to where you have gotten the idea that I am angry at the coach. I suggest you read all my posts before judging and posting about my positioning on the issue.

Fazal
February 26, 2008, 01:56 PM
RazabQ as 'myself' is a chushni. However RazabQ as 'Moderator' is a pathor ('rocks').

WarWolf
February 26, 2008, 01:58 PM
I agree with what JS said. He is pointing to the basic problem of our team. Actually our cricketing culture needs to be questioned. If you cannot improve the cricketing structure of your country to a minimum level then why would be given the opportunity to continue enjoying test status? Test status er ekta ijjot ache to!!!

Pundit
February 26, 2008, 01:59 PM
I was expecting a thread like this, but I am glad that it was opened by someone I do not know from Bangla Cricket. So, I feel no hesitation to say this to you, this thread's opener, and to all else who agree with you...

Take your [edit] to [edit]

And also...welcome to the real world.

ripon
February 26, 2008, 02:07 PM
Lets not digress this thread into being an ethnocentric or "my culture is better than yours" thread. sorry i did not mean to offend n compare cultures just saying culture doesnt have anything to do with the cricket attitude, the attitude will be seen in cricket obviously no reason to mention culture:) .

ripon
February 26, 2008, 02:10 PM
I was expecting a thread like this, but I am glad that it was opened by someone I do not know from Bangla Cricket. So, I feel no hesitation to say this to you, this thread's opener, and to all else who agree with you...

Take your [edit] and go to **** wow very harsh words there mate .

RazabQ
February 26, 2008, 02:14 PM
Sharif, ok you are not angry :) But you don't like public slating yes?

Fazal, nice one ... you and I will always have our differences on that [বাংলা]ছাই[/বাংলা] matter, but it's cool ...

Pundit - chill - 'tis a free country so you can expound a position but a moderated forum so you can't cuss:)

kalpurush
February 26, 2008, 02:20 PM
Second and most importantly, I think Siddons should be sensitive to the culture and speak less. Greg Chappell like greats couldnt sustain here due to cultural differences and it is not easy to just speak your mind and the press will understand your analogies. This is the first assignment for Siddons outside Australia, its different, its tough and its sensitive. He speaks too much but it does nothing to inspire the team or the fans as it used to during Watmore days.

Third, I think BC members are smart enough to filter out what Press says about Siddons. Daily Star is a joker, Prothom Alo is a Cartoon, Janakantha and others are pretty much copying each others writings,, none gives you genuine news. But I think BCB should ask Siddons to be careful of what he says. He has no right to demean our cricket or the fans. He has the right to improve the results and in 3 months we have not seen anything different than what we have seen for the last 3-4 years. He has not presented us a win, nor has he given us extended Test sessions by his favorite players. On his way to Chittagong, he should pay attention to Fouzdarhat Cadet College sign that shines white and clear...,,," Kotha noy Kaj"[বাংলা]
চোরকে চোর বললে দোষটা কোথায়? আমিতো কোন অসুবিধা দেখছিনা!চোরকে প্রাপ্য শাস্তি না দিয়ে তার বন্দনা করি, চোরকে গদিতে বসাই আমরা, আলাদা সম্মান দেখাই, মানবকুলে তাহারাই যেন সেরা! চোরেই যে বিশ্বাস আমাদের!! হায়রে কপাল, এটা শুধু বাংলাদেশেই সম্ভব!!!

টেস্ট-এ আমাদের যে পারফরম্যান্স, সিডন্স তো ঠিকই বলেছে...
শুধু আলাদিনের চেরাগ-ই পারবে তিন মাসে বাংলাদেশকে জয় এনে দিতে...
খেলোয়ারদের নিজেদের উন্নতির জন্যেই তাদের সঠিক অবস্থানটা জানা উচিত।[/বাংলা]:-D

sharifk
February 26, 2008, 02:27 PM
Sharif, ok you are not angry :) But you don't like public slating yes?


My posts speak volume of my positioning on the matter.

Shobha
February 26, 2008, 02:40 PM
Maybe siddons is actually a mole (undercover worker) for icc and is saboutaging the matches on purpose so that we lose, and as a result icc can rightfully take away our test status:-|
think about it how else do you expalain these comments and his decision to maintain the same team ( keep habba!:o) ??????:D

kalpurush
February 26, 2008, 02:48 PM
Maybe siddons is actually a mole (undercover worker) for icc and is saboutaging the matches on purpose so that we lose, and as a result icc can rightfully take away our test status:-|
think about it how else do you expalain these comments and his decision to maintain the same team ( keep habba!:o) ??????:D
[বাংলা]মামু, " ..." পানিতো ভালই খেয়েছেন মনে হচ্ছে!!!;)[/বাংলা]

akabir77
February 26, 2008, 03:29 PM
[বাংলা]
চোরকে চোর বললে দোষটা কোথায়? আমিতো কোন অসুবিধা দেখছিনা!চোরকে প্রাপ্য শাস্তি না দিয়ে তার বন্দনা করি, চোরকে গদিতে বসাই আমরা, আলাদা সম্মান দেখাই, মানবকুলে তাহারাই যেন সেরা! চোরেই যে বিশ্বাস আমাদের!! হায়রে কপাল, এটা শুধু বাংলাদেশেই সম্ভব!!!

টেস্ট-এ আমাদের যে পারফরম্যান্স, সিডন্স তো ঠিকই বলেছে...
শুধু আলাদিনের চেরাগ-ই পারবে তিন মাসে বাংলাদেশকে জয় এনে দিতে...
খেলোয়ারদের নিজেদের উন্নতির জন্যেই তাদের সঠিক অবস্থানটা জানা উচিত।[/বাংলা]:-D
[বাংলা]
আলাদিনের দওঃ তর এক টা শপ্ন পুরন করব বল কি চাস?

বাংলাদেশি ফানঃ আমি চাই [/বাংলা]Middle East [বাংলা]এয় শান্তি আশুক।

আলাদিনের দওঃ না তা শম্ভব নয়, আর কিচু চা।

বাংলাদেশি ফানঃ তাহলে বাংলাদেশকে তিন মাসের মদেহ একটা টেস্ট জিতেয় দাও।

আলাদিনের দওঃ [/বাংলা] hmmm... Middle East [বাংলা] এর শান্তি কয় দিনেয় চাস?
[/বাংলা]

Pundit
February 26, 2008, 03:34 PM
Sharif, ok you are not angry :) But you don't like public slating yes?

Fazal, nice one ... you and I will always have our differences on that [বাংলা]ছাই[/বাংলা] matter, but it's cool ...

Pundit - chill - 'tis a free country so you can expound a position but a moderated forum so you can't cuss:)

What cuss - I had censored my word to begin with.

A now you have censored something that was already censored.

Double Hitler - you are.

:(

Pundit
February 26, 2008, 03:36 PM
wow very harsh words there mate .

Do you know what harsh is - its facing that bowler called Steyn.

That is what harsh is. Not some meaningless internet rebuke.

kaisermatin
February 26, 2008, 04:30 PM
pagole ki na bole ar chagol-e ki na khai. sob mith-tha. bangladesh bhalo khelse. hoi-lo to. siddons mone hoi besi din thakte par-be na. because he is not saying compromising things. amader culture-e we like to hide from reality. but 2nd test e miracle hoi-le mondo na.

sufism
February 26, 2008, 04:49 PM
I agree with every single word Siddons said. It's about time we realised where we stand. I hope the coach is more vocal about improving the infrastructre as well, like the standard of pitches. I believe the first step of recovery is addressing your problems. And I believe that's exactly what the coach is trying to do. And by all means I believe the first test result of this series was a fluke. We just got simply lucky at times. whether it be controversial descisions or unusual way of getting out. Even Junaed got this fifty with countless edges and atleast a couple of controversial descisions in his favor. Actually i believe it might even take us longer then 8 years. So what, if my team can't win do i just stop supporting them?? Not at all. I would like to enjoy and cheer for every little step my team makes. We ask our players to be patient in the field. We as fans should also learn to do the same.
Therefore, thanks a bunch to Siddons for saying what he thinks is right.

djnaved
February 26, 2008, 04:49 PM
Siddons said the Bangladesh batsmen were not used to batting against the sort of pace generated by South Africa's fast bowlers. "They [the batsmen] go from playing for their clubs in the National League to trying to take on the best fast bowler in the world. [Dale] Steyn kept striking in the first few overs and we never recovered. We spent the [whole] Test trying to recover all the time. He [Steyn] ripped us apart in the second innings with 150 kph outswingers [to the right-handers] or inswingers to the left-handers."

"When your batsmen are out of confidence and having to play against Steyn, Morne Morkel or Makhaya Ntini, that is a tough assignment. The pressure they transmitted is too much for our batsmen at the moment. Their bowlers were just too good for our batsmen."

Despite the loss, Siddons was not keen on changing the squad for the second Test. "You've got to give young players time. I think they have the talent to improve, even if it takes eight years.


haire siddons, didn't bd players face shoaib akhter, shane bond, lasith malinga, flintoff, pathan?

also, our coach want to stick with limited players.. afsos

sislam2
February 26, 2008, 05:06 PM
Siddons comment seemed quite reasonable to me. He stated young players have talent and talent to improve, even it takes eight years. That doesn't sarcastic, He meant this players will be ready to play against big teams after eight years of experiece, which is very reasonable. I don't how that can be demoralizing the team.
And this young players should be expecting critcism from media, fan and even coach after their performance in recent tests. If you are representing your country, you should expect that if are not doind a good job. Moreover, u are getting paid enough. When coach critcizes you, it should make you more determined to get better and improve. i know it does to me.
Different people have different minds, we know everyone doesn't think the same.
Some likes what Siddons says, Some don't care, some hate it.

BUt FACE IT, WE DO NEED A MIRACLE TO WIN AGAINST BIG TEAMS IN A REGULAR BASIS.

Farhad
February 26, 2008, 08:45 PM
I think some of us are intent on forgiving Siddons for anything he has to say at this point. That being said, I dont want to write him off either. He's made some - shall we say - "interesting" comments in the short time he's been with us, but fortunately for him, his main job is to improve the players the selectors pick for the team and not to predict the future (something hes been a lot more likely to do than Whatmore, "Golden Boy" and "8 years" comes to mind). He seems to have done well in those aspects of his duties (i.e improving permormance) thus far, and seeing as I how I think those are the only one that matter, Im not too worried.

Plus, I understand how some may believe Motivation plays a big role in the players performance, and I agree. But I believe Whatmore did that part of his duties a little too well. Our players seem to think they're the most talented on earth, and thats why we see them out so often playing useless, "stylish" shots. It all boils down to shot selection, and I believe thats where JS is going to help us the most...

Pundit
February 26, 2008, 09:24 PM
haire siddons, didn't bd players face shoaib akhter, shane bond, lasith malinga, flintoff, pathan?

also, our coach want to stick with limited players.. afsos

And pray tell us all what happened when we faced these bowlers?

Besides that '99 game against Pakistan, we have been decimated by this group of bowlers.

cricman
February 26, 2008, 09:44 PM
I know I was a person for Bashing Bashar when he displayed that loser Attitude, the fact of the matter is we threw atleast 15 our wickets away, It had nothing do with Stern being the Best Fast Bowler in the World ... Remember Juniad smacked 103, Sakib 73 against the Same bowlers a week ago and we scored 413/d right? The middle Order could have easily had 300, Ash, Aftab and Sakib all looked good and so Did SN who was out to a good ball.

Maybe this is reverse psychology, I know Mciness did this with the A team and told us this story after SN Scored 138 off Australia. The players have the skill they just lack the application most of the time.

He could have said if our player put there heads down and put in the hard work that we could give give South Africa another run for there money. He just knows that it's just probably won't happen and put gave himself an excuse. Ash says something like this and I bet you'd want his head.

"He missed one (chance) today, but I don't think it would have made any difference. But there is no excuse for missing, but it was something very tough on a wicket on the left-side that had unpredictable bounce," he said.

wtf? than why show up in the 4th day? Why should have Rajib and Rafique bowl the @$$ off if it wouldn't make a diffrence. This siddions is an interesting character ... but I won't judge him now i'll wait till the end of his contract to critic him ... cause i do believe he'll take Bangladesh Cricket to the next level.

Murad
February 26, 2008, 09:57 PM
The day players will stop giving their wickets away, we will do alright in Test cricket. We will see 300+ score consistently aganist any team. I'm just waiting for that day. I am sure it will come very soon, inshallah.:)

Zobair
February 26, 2008, 10:51 PM
The coach has my full confidence. He won't be earning his keep if he didn't back his judgement with regards to his charges and apply his considerable skills to make improvements over the period that he has been hired for.

Sohel
February 26, 2008, 11:52 PM
I have NO issues with what he said. From looking at the most successful cricketers, especially batsmen at this level, I see them perform their best from their late 20s to early and mid 30s. Young geniuses like Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Smith and Clarke are exceptions to the rule dominated by Sangakkaras, Jayawardenas and Haydens among others, just track the correlation between their age and performance in CI. Misbah made it in his 30s FGS! And they come from cricketing cultures with quality domestic FC and loads of A-Team exposure to prepare them better for success and sustain that success better. So, the '8-years' comment, given the qualitative realities of our cricket infrastructure, makes perfect sense to me.

Also as an employer and manager of young Bangladeshi professionals, I found 'tough love' to be the best way to help them become the best they can be. Speaking the truth and putting things in proper perspective are an integral part of that 'tough love' IMHO. Abuse isn't and should not no be confused with it, and Coach Siddons has never been abusive from what some of us have SEEN in person and on TV.

The putuputu approach is often confused with coddling here in our culture, and is perceived as 'weakness'. That particular approach also leads to our young players 1) wallowing in complacency and taking things for granted, 2) delusions of grandeur, 3) over-confidence, and 4) under-performance. Look what Shaun Williams' unabashed 'positivism' did to them!

It is too early to start ragging on Coach Siddons or blaming him for comments based on what he knows and what he has been led to believe about our cricket only months into his job. I have all the confidence in the world in his professionalism and good faith, and his desire to take us to the next level Inshallah. Before he is done with us, I hope to see our boys competing in test matches and winning two in a row against the big boys of ODI cricket.

Bengali Bum
February 27, 2008, 12:48 AM
He was interviewed on NTV and said the same thing.
In a way, he is right even though it might be discouraging for some of our players.
May be we don't perform as well as the other test teams because we are not equipped well.
We need advanced technology that Australia and SA use.
We don't have a lot of bowlers (may be none at all) who can bowl at our batsmen at 150K. so how r we suppose to prepare for Sten, Ntini or Lee.

Also agree with Sohel. Look at Sourov's Test score for the past one year.

mlk5165
February 27, 2008, 01:14 AM
Ithink we are exactly where we were when we dubiously got the test status. At least in the first test the team scored over 400 runs, although in the second innings, they were back to their actual self. I may sound cynical, but tell me how much money this poor nation has squandered in trying to pamper these idiots (called cricket players) in the form of procuring so called high profile coaches, equipment and other paraphernalia. A team like Amer Khan's (LAGAAN) wouldnt do much worse than what our great team has been consistently doing. Even if I (at this age) stood on the crease, I could probably have scored in at least double digits once in a while. Look at the performance of most of our batsmen. Their continuous scores have been in single digits (including Os) and only an occasional 20/30/40. Even the LAGAAN players could do that. So why have a coach, physios and other such thing worth crores when half the nation is starving? We can gather 11 people from anywhere to score around 100 runs and then bowl at the opponents and restrict them to 550/600 runs. Am I sounding too unrealistic? But ststistics affirm loudly my contentions. At least on a trial basis get rid of the coaches and see the results. It will not be any worse.
Then I think what good a coach is if he cant perform (ie improve the player's ability)? A player is dumped if he cant perform but the coach stays enjoying all the perks. If we look at our performance when we had no coach, it wasnt any worse than when we started having million dollar coaches.
So I suggest lets try for once a LAGAAN like team .
Thanks

Yes he is correct. Junaid is a miracle landed in our lap out of nowhere. Don't know how long this will last (See SN). Enjoying the ride anyways.

With current teams performance we need another few miracles to happen.

1) Selectors get in to senses (Will never happen unless a miracle ...) I am ready to see HB in the team for the entire 2008 season. May be he will get a recall in ODIs who knows. Three cheers for the selectors hip!! hip!! ....(why are you guys silent?)

2) Ash's mental lapse while batting (So many years has passed still having mental lapse. Only miraculously that can be fixed)

3) Mash's recovery (coming back to form). When did he have a significance bowling performance in test last time? Didn't he say he needs to learn reverse swing from Malinga last time we toured SL? (need a miracle to get a Mash with fire under his belly) He psychologically knows before hand when we can and can not win a test. Way to go VC. His bowling action with arm tucked in does not help either. Where is his follow through swinging left arm? Injury happens for a reason.

4) SN mediocre will continue unless he thinks 25 is not a good score.

You need more I can keep on typing. Just let me know.

Truth hurts!! That is what frustrated coach just said. Either the players prove him wrong or eat the dust. Time after time if players continue to do the same mistakes (throw away their wickets) what would a coach do? Bat himself?

PoorFan
February 27, 2008, 01:36 AM
If you feel hurt show it in your act ( performance ).

If they feel hurt & discouraged by those words ... no wonder why typical batting collapse going on and on once a wicket fall against big team. Either grow up or eat up those trash ... be it own coach or world media, legend. Its all about prove your worth in the game, get used to it.

pocha
February 27, 2008, 01:50 AM
Ithink we are exactly where we were when we dubiously got the test status. At least in the first test the team scored over 400 runs, although in the second innings, they were back to their actual self. I may sound cynical, but tell me how much money this poor nation has squandered in trying to pamper these idiots (called cricket players) in the form of procuring so called high profile coaches, equipment and other paraphernalia. A team like Amer Khan's (LAGAAN) wouldnt do much worse than what our great team has been consistently doing. Even if I (at this age) stood on the crease, I could probably have scored in at least double digits once in a while. Look at the performance of most of our batsmen. Their continuous scores have been in single digits (including Os) and only an occasional 20/30/40. Even the LAGAAN players could do that. So why have a coach, physios and other such thing worth crores when half the nation is starving? We can gather 11 people from anywhere to score around 100 runs and then bowl at the opponents and restrict them to 550/600 runs. Am I sounding too unrealistic? But ststistics affirm loudly my contentions. At least on a trial basis get rid of the coaches and see the results. It will not be any worse.
Then I think what good a coach is if he cant perform (ie improve the player's ability)? A player is dumped if he cant perform but the coach stays enjoying all the perks. If we look at our performance when we had no coach, it wasnt any worse than when we started having million dollar coaches.
So I suggest lets try for once a LAGAAN like team .
Thanks

Can I join? I think I can also score 10/20 occasionally. At least wont do any worse than our Sonar Chele ;)

mlk5165
February 27, 2008, 02:01 AM
These guys need to be with the army for training for 2/3 years. Then only they will develop the aggressiveness, guts and the perseverence which are sorely missing. So lets stop wasting money and put them in the BMA for proper training.

auntu
February 27, 2008, 02:05 AM
Truth hurts but has to accept. Siddons is from a tough professional background where performance means all. The RIGHT MENTAL ATTITUDE makes them worlds best. This is a practice to observe every where at business, job, sports. The lacking of the RIGHT MENTAL ATTITUDE always downs us. The way he reacts I failed to find any disgrace or dishonored sort f element. NO ONE WILL GIVE YOU A SINGLE INCH, YOU HAVE TO EARN. You can not expect RESPECT, you have to earn :-P

nobody
February 27, 2008, 02:27 AM
what is the fuss about. Much ado about nothing.

PoorFan
February 27, 2008, 02:39 AM
Can I join? I think I can also score 10/20 occasionally. At least wont do any worse than our Sonar Chele ;)
<!--StartFragment -->Come on guys! why you are willing to waste your valuable time!? why not put those U-19 team if that is the case?/:)

kalpurush
February 27, 2008, 02:59 AM
[বাংলা]
আলাদিনের দওঃ তর এক টা শপ্ন পুরন করব বল কি চাস?

বাংলাদেশি ফানঃ আমি চাই [/বাংলা]Middle East [বাংলা]এয় শান্তি আশুক।

আলাদিনের দওঃ না তা শম্ভব নয়, আর কিচু চা।

বাংলাদেশি ফানঃ তাহলে বাংলাদেশকে তিন মাসের মদেহ একটা টেস্ট জিতেয় দাও।

আলাদিনের দওঃ [/বাংলা] hmmm... Middle East [বাংলা] এর শান্তি কয় দিনেয় চাস?
[/বাংলা]
kool one!!! :lol:

tiger_army
February 27, 2008, 03:09 AM
I'm disapointed, the caoch has basically said we are crap and will take 8 years and you all want to accept that, not realising the detrimental effect that has on current players and futre. I can't pursue this thread with minds that tolerate our national coach speaking like that. if you all think the same then don't watch or discuss the next test as if its a miracle you think is required well they don't happen often.

but it is true we are tht crap......and i dont think these comments will disappoint our players if our players willing to win games, there is lots of positive lessons from his comments......test cricket is not tht easy....this is very tough to handle....our player shud know their capability and shud improve from there. i think few players r changing...its a good sign

nsd3
February 27, 2008, 07:23 AM
Once we talked a lot about bringing in Aussie culture in our cricket. What Siddons said goes in line with that culture. I noticed Aussies being very straightforward and at times they patronize talent like he/she is the best in the world. From that sense we may need to adapt to this new style and welcome such straightforwardness in our cricket (or communication) culture.

Moreover, Siddons was seen to be protective to young guns such as Mushfiq - as being a father guarding his son from all external calamities (media for example). So I can't agree with the thread generator on the point that he was instigating any discouraging attitude among our young stars. We can definitely say to our players now after so many test appearances - "Koira khao" even in the media because of the urgency that they must feel to perform responsibly on the field. If that sounds harsh so be it. Enough is enough.

Alien
February 27, 2008, 07:57 AM
I'm disapointed, the caoch has basically said we are crap and will take 8 years and you all want to accept that, not realising the detrimental effect that has on current players and futre. I can't pursue this thread with minds that tolerate our national coach speaking like that. if you all think the same then don't watch or discuss the next test as if its a miracle you think is required well they don't happen often.

Siddon doesn't get paid to make excuses but to fix them and that is what he is doing.
And as with any problems, the step 1 is Identify the problem.
If James Siddon kept on saying what others always say, "It's such a young team", "They need time to improve", "Our bowlers aren't used to 150kph", then there would be nothing to improve and all it shows is that he is soft towards his role in fixing the issue and counting on time to fix it (may it take forever).

Instead, he hit the nail in the head. YES our team lacks decent pacers. YES our batsmen have trouble with 150kph bowlers. Facing turtles bowlers in domestic cricket is not excuse because let's get back to the reality: we are an International Test playing nation. Unless we get our standards up, we are doomed because rest of the world's standard isn't going down.

Sorry but you are being over sensitive over the matter. One has to learn to take criticism where it's due if you want to improve else you never will. So what he is the coach? He doesn't have the obligation to make excuses for the teams shortcoming.

WarWolf
February 27, 2008, 11:10 AM
Once we talked a lot about bringing in Aussie culture in our cricket. What Siddons said goes in line with that culture. I noticed Aussies being very straightforward and at times they patronize talent like he/she is the best in the world. From that sense we may need to adapt to this new style and welcome such straightforwardness in our cricket (or communication) culture.

Moreover, Siddons was seen to be protective to young guns such as Mushfiq - as being a father guarding his son from all external calamities (media for example). So I can't agree with the thread generator on the point that he was instigating any discouraging attitude among our young stars. We can definitely say to our players now after so many test appearances - "Koira khao" even in the media because of the urgency that they must feel to perform responsibly on the field. If that sounds harsh so be it. Enough is enough.
Good point. Totally agreed.

ripon
February 27, 2008, 12:02 PM
These guys need to be with the army for training for 2/3 years. Then only they will develop the aggressiveness, guts and the perseverence which are sorely missing. So lets stop wasting money and put them in the BMA for proper training. they did actually once go to the army camp in sylhet to toughen themselves out but it actually didnt work out at all, they played worser than expected but i forget who they played against . ? i would advice them to do skydiving i think that will surely make them tough!

FagunerAgun
February 27, 2008, 12:06 PM
Yes he is correct. Junaid is a miracle landed in our lap out of nowhere. Don't know how long this will last (See SN). Enjoying the ride anyways.

With current teams performance we need another few miracles to happen.

1) Selectors get in to senses (Will never happen unless a miracle ...) I am ready to see HB in the team for the entire 2008 season. May be he will get a recall in ODIs who knows. Three cheers for the selectors hip!! hip!! ....(why are you guys silent?)

2) Ash's mental lapse while batting (So many years has passed still having mental lapse. Only miraculously that can be fixed)

3) Mash's recovery (coming back to form). When did he have a significance bowling performance in test last time? Didn't he say he needs to learn reverse swing from Malinga last time we toured SL? (need a miracle to get a Mash with fire under his belly) He psychologically knows before hand when we can and can not win a test. Way to go VC. His bowling action with arm tucked in does not help either. Where is his follow through swinging left arm? Injury happens for a reason.

4) SN mediocre will continue unless he thinks 25 is not a good score.

You need more I can keep on typing. Just let me know.

Truth hurts!! That is what frustrated coach just said. Either the players prove him wrong or eat the dust. Time after time if players continue to do the same mistakes (throw away their wickets) what would a coach do? Bat himself?

Well stated, I agree with JS even though it hurts us a lot.

Pundit
February 27, 2008, 12:39 PM
Please remember one of Siddons' recruiter's comments on him having strong interest in our domestic structure.

Maybe some of his comments are directed at our administrators as well - get your internal act together for the long term, and here are some pointers.

Fazal
February 27, 2008, 12:47 PM
Ei beperee Beamer Bhai-er ki montobbo?
Will he throw a Beamer ? Or continue ot act like Beameri and igone the thread?

Beamer
February 27, 2008, 12:48 PM
He is telling it like it is. What's the problem? These weak minded players are in need of this. If this affects any player then he doesn't belong any way. Its nothing personal and the way he sticks by the players he has chosen indicates that it is not personal. That is why its important to start fresh with younger players who are coachable. Young players that has the room and capacity to learn/change should be preferred. Notice the impact on certain individuals, such as, Tamim, Zunaid, Aftab, Shahadat. Making a mountain out of a mole hill this thread.

Fazal
February 27, 2008, 12:51 PM
Looks like a real Beamer to me....

Beamer
February 27, 2008, 12:53 PM
Ei beperee Beamer Bhai-er ki montobbo?
Will he throw a Beamer ? Or continue ot act like Beameri and igone the thread?

eta ki montobbo koarar bishoy? temon kono montobbo nai. montobbo kortam jodi JS bolto amra WC jitbo, othoba, Australia giye oder one day series harabo! ay ar ki..manush jon er touchy nerve thik korar jonno therapist lagbey, not my montobbo.

mshakir56
February 27, 2008, 01:01 PM
I think his comments came from pure frustration against our batsman. He is a human being just like us, and he gets frustrated just like us, whenever our batsman makes a pathetic display !

Dhakablues
February 27, 2008, 01:09 PM
you know as a coach,, he can say anything and everythign to his players. We dont give a didly sqat about what/how he does his coaching, spank them or feed them milk. But when he speaks something that is beyond coaching and touches the area that is beyond his jurisdiction,, I have a problem with that if the comments are out of line. He should be careful of what he says because Cricinfo or other nations also pays attention to those comments and can take negative actions to reflect those comments.

If its going to take him eight years to build a quality side,, seems like he is trying to take the "Gadha Pityaye Manush Kora" approach. If he is getting Gadhas, he should ask selectors to give him atleast Gorus or Chagols so that he can at the minum milk something out them. Our Gadhas milk is not tasting too good to us.

Beamer
February 27, 2008, 01:21 PM
I had to go back and read the quotes. I believe he said, " even if it takes eight years". That is quite opposite to saying " it will take eight years". Also, he talked about giving the younger players the room/time to improve and the hypothetical "eight" has to be applied in that context. He has been given the task to build the new generation of players for the future and rightly so he has mentioned that he won't sacrifice the young players for the "experienced" ones if the result is same. The philosophy and the approach is correct. That is what we need. If any fans for whatever reason expected an instant change after JS took over, they are delusional to say the least, but, luckily for us at BC, except a few, most are under no illusion. It is Dale Styen who did rip our top order in every instance. JS didn't have to say it for us or players to notice that. Anyway..all for nothing really..

BANFAN
February 27, 2008, 01:26 PM
India never had a bowler of 150 kmph speed in entire history, but they poduced many batsmen capable of playing faster bowlers. identifying problems and solving them is the job of the coach, not making silly prediction, specially if that is detrimental to the team.

These are lame reasons for not being able to deliver as a coach, really shocking to see a coach in the role of a cheap fortune teller !!!!

1983ak
February 27, 2008, 01:30 PM
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FagunerAgun
February 27, 2008, 01:31 PM
you know as a coach,, he can say anything and everythign to his players. We dont give a didly sqat about what/how he does his coaching, spank them or feed them milk. But when he speaks something that is beyond coaching and touches the area that is beyond his jurisdiction,, I have a problem with that if the comments are out of line. He should be careful of what he says because Cricinfo or other nations also pays attention to those comments and can take negative actions to reflect those comments.

If its going to take him eight years to build a quality side,, seems like he is trying to take the "Gadha Pityaye Manush Kora" approach. If he is getting Gadhas, he should ask selectors to give him atleast Gorus or Chagols so that he can at the minum milk something out them. Our Gadhas milk is not tasting too good to us.

Makes sense. but egarota Gorus or Chagols powa to onek duskor. egarota Ghadha paitei amader selector der gham jhore, abar Gorus, Chagols? :-D

reyme
February 27, 2008, 01:36 PM
JS said this and that--all postive? Acceptable. But...action wise what did he do?
An smart JS would have made 2 exact pitches, next to each other, played all those 6 practise matches in one of the picthes and save the other for the test.

Instead he stayed 2 weeks in Sydney for vacation! Now enjoy the fruit!

To put icing on the cake, JS did not know who khaled Mashud pilot was? Dont you think he would known better for the position for which the team has been suffering so much?

And what golden future, what if we dont have test status that long?

Look guys, here is the deal, if a "miracle" is the prescription hire a coach from Bangla Cricket!
JS should talk better than that in front of media. He can curse all he wants in front of his players, but in person, but in front of the media, he must be politically correct. He need to realize Bangaleshis are emotional and sensitive, this is no Australia. Dav knew better.

Pundit
February 27, 2008, 01:48 PM
India never had a bowler of 150 kmph speed in entire history, but they poduced many batsmen capable of playing faster bowlers. These are lame reasons, really shocking to see a coach in the role of a cheap fortune teller !!!!

Good point, but how many batsmen of theirs were good at playing fast bowlers prior to the 90s when they had no domestic fasties:

Gavaskar, Amarnath....

...not Vengsarkar, not Shastri, not Patil, not Vishwanath, not Gaekward (besides 1 double century against the WINDIES) !

Outside of the WINDIES, there were only 3 express bowlers..IK, Lilee, Thompson.

Th eother team with fast bowlers was the banned South Africa. India seldomed played Australia, and the times they played Imran Khan, they were destroyed (including Gavaskar).

Finally, they did have exposure to fast bowlers..having played County Cricket.

akabir77
February 27, 2008, 01:48 PM
reyme you make me laugh... ha ha ha

Murad
February 27, 2008, 01:56 PM
Look guys, here is the deal, if a "miracle" is the prescription hire a coach from Bangla Cricket!
JS should talk better than that in front of media. He can curse all he wants in front of his players, but in person, but in front of the media, he must be politically correct. He need to realize Bangaleshis are emotional and sensitive, this is no Australia. Dav knew better.

And I think that culture needs to be changed. Emotion kono kaame aaibo na..

LateCut
February 27, 2008, 01:56 PM
Siddons comments could be a frank assesment of the state of affair with the BD team. However, there are times when one needs to soften the naked truth by lacing it with white lies. It is like saying "you are the most beautifull woman in the world" to your wife. (In my my case it is happened to be truth.) Truth hurts and can often shatter the confidence of young ones. Jimmy should have the sense and capability to put some positive spin to his observations without compromising the essential truth. Now I see in him an immature coach in charge of bunch of immature post-teen boys. We are in BIG trouble.

Beamer
February 27, 2008, 01:57 PM
reyme r mon mejaj khub kharap. Is it raining that much In Seattle buddy?

akabir77
February 27, 2008, 01:59 PM
man they couldn't get a guy who can speak english? thanks 1983ak for the video...

Now do you guys still object after watching these?

Murad
February 27, 2008, 02:04 PM
What's the official language in Australia? English? or they speak some other language there?

akabir77
February 27, 2008, 02:13 PM
Australian English. its bit different then regular one...

Murad
February 27, 2008, 02:15 PM
Australian English. its bit different then regular one...

Thanks Kabir bhai. :)

Beamer
February 27, 2008, 02:16 PM
Look guys, here is the deal, if a "miracle" is the prescription hire a coach from Bangla Cricket!
JS should talk better than that in front of media. He can curse all he wants in front of his players, but in person, but in front of the media, he must be politically correct. He need to realize Bangaleshis are emotional and sensitive, this is no Australia. Dav knew better.

I guess you said good bye to sensitivities every time Dav threw his hat for the India job whenever it presented itself despite being under contract. Or, the other time, when he did a commentary gig for BBC for a few bucks in the middle of a test match in England.

Fazal
February 27, 2008, 02:18 PM
You haven't seen anything yet how Siddon can mistreat his players.

See the picture below...
http://www.thedailystar.net/photos/2008-02-28__sports01.jpg

Tamim and Rahim is panished in "patshala style punishment" for not making any runs in 1st TEST.

BANFAN
February 27, 2008, 02:33 PM
Good point, but how many batsmen of theirs were good at playing fast bowlers prior to the 90s when they had no domestic fasties:

Gavaskar, Amarnath....

...not Vengsarkar, not Shastri, not Patil, not Vishwanath, not Gaekward (besides 1 double century against the WINDIES) !

Outside of the WINDIES, there were only 3 express bowlers..IK, Lilee, Thompson.

Th eother team with fast bowlers was the banned South Africa. India seldomed played Australia, and the times they played Imran Khan, they were destroyed (including Gavaskar).

Finally, they did have exposure to fast bowlers..having played County Cricket.

You r right, there were not many at the level of Gavaskar, Amanath, Viswanath in that team, but they managed to perform well against the west indies in 70s with the fastest bowlers at that time. Didn't resort to the reasoning we are doing. Not having faster bowlers was more of a headache in the bowling department, not batting. None of that team played in the counties either.

Then came Azhar, Tendul, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman..... where from they came? india even today does not have such fast bowlers (140+) in abundance.

Imran khan was an intelligent bowler, who troubled every batsmen of every team of the world, not necessarily for his pace alone.

Beamer
February 27, 2008, 02:38 PM
To put icing on the cake, JS did not know who khaled Mashud pilot was? Dont you think he would known better for the position for which the team has been suffering so much?

And what golden future, what if we dont have test status that long?

Dav era was too occupied with chopping/changing method that he practiced with impunity. The end result was pre-mature debut and subsequent banishment of too many young players too early who couldn't cope with it. Siddons from the get go has announced that for the sake of proper focused grooming, he will concentrate and work with a group of selected, talented, young players, identified by the selectors and presented to him. I agree with this method. The core group will not be more than 17 and that is the way to go. Other aspiring young ones will have to wait longer for their own benefit. That doesn't mean that we won't have any new players coming in during his tenure. It only means, that the number of new players coming in will be less ( they will be young players ) and once they come in, they will have time to learn and stay until they avail the opportunity. Given the choice between the constant revolving door practiced by Dav, and this presented by Siddons, I will prefer his method.

The Pilot matter is probably an extension of the current practice. Since, he hasn't been part of the national set up for more than a year, and the selectors don't think of him as part of the core 17, why should he bother with him? If they bring him back in the fold, only then he will worry about him. Mushy is in the radar now for being in the squad and JS must concentrate on how to make him better, not someone who hasn't played for a year, or until Pilot shows up among the core 17.

Pundit
February 27, 2008, 02:40 PM
You r right, there were not many at the level of Gavaskar, Amanath, Viswanath in that team, but they managed to perform well against the west indies in 70s with the fastest bowlers at that time. Didn't resort to the reasoning we are doing. Not having faster bowlers was more of a headache in the bowling department, not batting. None of that team played in the counties either.

Then came Azhar, Tendul, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman..... where from they came? india even today does not have such fast bowlers (140+) in abundance.

Imran khan was an intelligent bowler, who troubled every batsmen of every team of the world, not necessarily for his pace alone.

Great points, and this discussion can keep on going for a long time.

So lets see how much we want to compare our 8 year old test team with one batsman over 40 tests and nothing more than a legacy of picnic cricket against one with 75 years of Test cricket and 50 years preceding that of 1st class cricket?

akabir77
February 27, 2008, 02:51 PM
To put icing on the cake, JS did not know who khaled Mashud pilot was? Dont you think he would known better for the position for which the team has been suffering so much?

And what golden future, what if we dont have test status that long?

JS didn't know who was PILOT as the reporters asked about PILOT. He knew KM not PILOT.:timeout:

BANFAN
February 27, 2008, 03:19 PM
Great points, and this discussion can keep on going for a long time.

So lets see how much we want to compare our 8 year old test team with one batsman over 40 tests and nothing more than a legacy of picnic cricket against one with 75 years of Test cricket and 50 years preceding that of 1st class cricket?

Such comparison is completely unfair, even if we are reffering to about 40 years back. India started rising and competing against big teams (less Pak) in late 60s/70s. Untill that time they were more or less playing lagan cricket. No one questioned them for not performing for over 20 years.

time has changed; within this 8 years, we heard many calls for banning BD from Test cricket. Pressure is on for performing well. Country spend quiet good amount of money on the coaching staff. India did not have a foreign coach untill recent times. Coaches are expected to know, how to improve the standards, not make statements as i read in this thread.

Amarnath our former coach said we will never go to test level, we did. Gordon said the same during ICC cricket, but he was wrong, I am sure that a nation with so much passion for the game will prove siddons wrong before next 8 years.

zainab
February 27, 2008, 03:37 PM
It took India and Sri lanka a long time to excel in any form of the game, Nz took over 26 yrs to win a test match.

When India toured WI in the mid 70s, they were looked upon by the Windians as a second rate team until Gavaskar showed them that it was not like that. They won the test series,and their status went up in the world.

Pundit
February 27, 2008, 03:51 PM
Such comparison is completely unfair, even if we are reffering to about 40 years back. India started rising and competing against big teams (less Pak) in late 60s/70s. Untill that time they were more or less playing lagan cricket. No one questioned them for not performing for over 20 years.

time has changed; within this 8 years, we heard many calls for banning BD from Test cricket. Pressure is on for performing well. Country spend quiet good amount of money on the coaching staff. India did not have a foreign coach untill recent times. Coaches are expected to know, how to improve the standards, not make statements as i read in this thread.

Amarnath our former coach said we will never go to test level, we did. Gordon said the same during ICC cricket, but he was wrong, I am sure that a nation with so much passion for the game will prove siddons wrong before next 8 years.

I share with you all the hope and confidence. Sure, we will do better, and that will be to the credit of all the players, coaching staff and administrators. We as fans will float upstream with them and share all the joy (but bleed occasionally).

In the 80s, our batsmen could not even negotiate the Pakistan team doctor's bowling...and now if they send anybody short of their best....we will do a Multan over again.

auntu
February 27, 2008, 05:26 PM
good words from JS. bhoyaboho accent of host

JS said he will personaly look for other talents in BD, good move! he said BD job is d bigest feather in his cap!

Roni_uk
February 27, 2008, 06:19 PM
I dont think anything wrong with coach's comment. OK we needed another 50/60 runs to perhaps win it but why didn't we? This is not the first time we lost it this way. The problem is our players do not believe that they can win, they believe that we are a crap team .. everyone knows it... so what the hell...lets make about 10 runs and my job is done!! We will start winning matches when we start to believe the we can win a match against big teams like SA.

Sorry it might sound a little silly but I saw other captains like Dhoni saying the same to his team and they suceeded to come back from impossible positions.

Farhad
February 27, 2008, 07:22 PM
Thanks for the video 1983AK. After watching that, I have to agree with most of the posters on this thread. He was actually pretty positive about the team to be honest. More positive than i am, thats for sure...

And regarding the part of the interview the most people had trouble with, he said "even if it takes 8 years". The bolded part makes a HUGE difference...

nzfan
February 27, 2008, 09:41 PM
your team is lucky you have a coach like this, who speaks the truth. what do you want? a coach who just says "we tried our best and will continue doing so" and never get better

Beamer
February 27, 2008, 10:20 PM
Thanks for the video 1983AK. After watching that, I have to agree with most of the posters on this thread. He was actually pretty positive about the team to be honest. More positive than i am, thats for sure...

And regarding the part of the interview the most people had trouble with, he said "even if it takes 8 years". The bolded part makes a HUGE difference...

Thats what I said in the last page. There is a world of difference between, " even if it takes eight years " as opposed to, " it will take eight years" ! Let me translate in Bangla for the impaired : " jodio aat bochor lagey to laguk " vs " amader aat bochor lagbey". Simple really.

Dhakablues
February 27, 2008, 11:07 PM
Its not what he said during the NTV that offended many... its all the other things combined that made people start to doubt Siddons press experence. The english is not hard to understand,, his judgments are. It wouldnt take 137 posts to clarify his english, I think.

tiger_army
February 28, 2008, 03:28 AM
Dav era was too occupied with chopping/changing method that he practiced with impunity. The end result was pre-mature debut and subsequent banishment of too many young players too early who couldn't cope with it. Siddons from the get go has announced that for the sake of proper focused grooming, he will concentrate and work with a group of selected, talented, young players, identified by the selectors and presented to him. I agree with this method. The core group will not be more than 17 and that is the way to go. Other aspiring young ones will have to wait longer for their own benefit. That doesn't mean that we won't have any new players coming in during his tenure. It only means, that the number of new players coming in will be less ( they will be young players ) and once they come in, they will have time to learn and stay until they avail the opportunity. Given the choice between the constant revolving door practiced by Dav, and this presented by Siddons, I will prefer his method.

The Pilot matter is probably an extension of the current practice. Since, he hasn't been part of the national set up for more than a year, and the selectors don't think of him as part of the core 17, why should he bother with him? If they bring him back in the fold, only then he will worry about him. Mushy is in the radar now for being in the squad and JS must concentrate on how to make him better, not someone who hasn't played for a year, or until Pilot shows up among the core 17.

Nice said bro........you are 100% on the spot. I don know why ppl don understand that and screaming for nothing

arifur81
February 28, 2008, 04:58 AM
I'm disapointed, the caoch has basically said we are crap and will take 8 years and you all want to accept that, not realising the detrimental effect that has on current players and futre. I can't pursue this thread with minds that tolerate our national coach speaking like that. if you all think the same then don't watch or discuss the next test as if its a miracle you think is required well they don't happen often.

WHY NOT, HE JUST SPOKE THE TRUTH AND TRUTH ALWAYS HURTS. I hope after reading Siddons comments our BD jokers will try to produce good competitive cricket on the 2nd test.

zainab
February 28, 2008, 07:25 AM
Siddons has accepted an uphill task of trying to uplift BD cricket. How long has he been in the job? Barely three months. He is now really observing the team and is slowly getting to know his boys. He cannot baby them, but try to motivate them by tough talk and talking about their weakness which is batting and lack of mental fortitude.
I am sure he is very frustrated with their performance after drumming it into their heads to stay at the crease and not throw their wickets away.
IMO, he will be trying to improve their mental fortitude, they do not lack talent, but application. He has a tough task ahead of him, he is a tough Aussie and will not give up. We will see improvement at the end of his tenure. He is also right in saying that he will not chop or change the team regularly. He will have about 20core players whom he will groom, as he says that they have to stay and play with each other regularly. This is the Aussie way. Rest of the cricketers who want a chance in the National team will have to excel in domestic cricket before they can be given a chance and the ones who are in, will have to perform consistently to keep their places. I am sure the National players are smart enough to realize this by now.

Fazal
February 29, 2008, 10:46 AM
So what do you think? Was he right or not? Now does it looke like the 1st TEST performance was a fluke rather and a norm?

Truth hurts.... doesn't it? ... specially when we know he is telling the truth but we are in a denial mode.

FHossain
February 29, 2008, 02:03 PM
Has it occured to you that maybe, just maybe, the post match comments have encouraged SA and discouraged Bangladesh and it has had a negative influence???? After all, like he said 8 years, a miracle, well lets pray or just wait 8 years.

akabir77
February 29, 2008, 02:08 PM
Has it occured to you that maybe, just maybe, the post match comments have encouraged SA and discouraged Bangladesh and it has had a negative influence???? After all, like he said 8 years, a miracle, well lets pray or just wait 8 years.

Has it occurred to you that maybe that he sized up the team right?

FHossain
February 29, 2008, 02:21 PM
no my friend cos 1st test was encouraging in experts opinions such as g.boycot, i.botham, d.gower, t.gregg. But they too were amazed at his comments and suggested how it could and would bring a lesser performance.

Ajfar
February 29, 2008, 02:26 PM
k so i was watching a test match between india Vs. England frm 1970 somethingg..n the indian side reminded me of the current bangladesh team...the way they were getting outt..poor shot selection...chasing balls for no reasonn...just like what our players r goin thru right noww..after this test...we wn't be playing test for a whilee..for like 6/7 monthss..i think..no i hope that when we come bak again..we'll be able to make a fresh start..n JD will be able to make sum improvement thru out this timee..

Dhakablues
February 29, 2008, 02:48 PM
So it will take us 38 years not 8 years to reach the India level.. Man, thats a bit long, I dont know if test cricket will be alive then... :)

Shobha
February 29, 2008, 02:56 PM
i wonder what siddons will have to say after today's performance then

FagunerAgun
February 29, 2008, 03:06 PM
I feel sorry for JS.
In future, we will have more difficulty finding a quality coach, if BD does not improve drastically.

Haider
February 29, 2008, 03:13 PM
Look here guyz... its plain and simple... Our players ... no matter who it is... do not have the mind set to be competitive.. They simply don't know how to. They are stuck in a slot where there's no-one to compete with in their level.. We shudn't be mad if our team can't win a battle against the elite teams. We shud look forward to play more series against team that we can level with.. thats how we gonna become competitive.. and play at a higher level with every practice we get. Its plain and simple. Playing against the top teams is good for experience.. but don't expect the unexpected.. only a bad day by the opponent is the most we can ask for. So for all the fans that think changing and cutting players on and off the team and try to make a better team.. and blaming selectors and coach for not picking the right players are valueless arguement. The best is to give the selcted ones chance to be groomed properly and become one as a team.. and i think thats exactly what Jamie has in mind.

akabir77
February 29, 2008, 03:40 PM
no my friend cos 1st test was encouraging in experts opinions such as g.boycot, i.botham, d.gower, t.gregg. But they too were amazed at his comments and suggested how it could and would bring a lesser performance.

If you really believe that our players r as goos as any test team players then i would suggest you to come down to earth.

Hey boycott once said his mom plays better than BD players now what do you have say about that.

Listen bro do you really think only one line of words have changed our team or this could have bean a world beater? Just because the coach said (in your opinion) a bad word made them play like this? really? i mean really?

Please watch some real TEST matches not the high light but the whole game you might understand where we are at this moment. or bets just watch Smiths innings? did you see him batting on the air or attacking bowlers two three times in the over? in a flat pitch they scored there 1st 4 in 8th over? how many 4 do you think bd might have score in those over with how many wicket loses?

Don't shoot the messenger he has just said what is the truth...

sandpiper
February 29, 2008, 03:46 PM
spot on

Please watch some real TEST matches not the high light but the whole game you might understand where we are at this moment. or bets just watch Smiths innings? did you see him batting on the air or attacking bowlers two three times in the over? in a flat pitch they scored there 1st 4 in 8th over? how many 4 do you think bd might have score in those over with how many wicket loses?


:-X

Fazal
February 29, 2008, 05:10 PM
If you really believe that our players r as goos as any test team players then i would suggest you to come down to earth.


You mean Ghoo i.e. Hagu ?:D

reyme
February 29, 2008, 05:40 PM
reyme r mon mejaj khub kharap. Is it raining that much In Seattle buddy?

Not raining (on the contrary what people think!), but yeah I am upset little bit, not enought good cricket lately I guess. went to phoenix and enjoyed plenty of sunshine!

how things are going on your side beamer? why dont you come by in seattle in summer, it gets super nice!

reyme
February 29, 2008, 05:42 PM
JS didn't know who was PILOT as the reporters asked about PILOT. He knew KM not PILOT.:timeout:

Well according to the newspaper, someone pointed out about 2 other WK who played the practice match. i am sure after "pilot" they explained it was the former captain, KM. anyway no big deal.

reyme
February 29, 2008, 06:07 PM
Dav era was too occupied with chopping/changing method that he practiced with impunity. until Pilot shows up among the core 17.

Nice. Okay the question is why continue to stay with a struggling WK? This will ruin his confidence and will do further damage. As a coach he must atleast know about backup players of his "core" players. KM was in top 22 players. With KM we probably would have better lineup, atleast it could have been a farewell match for him.

reyme
February 29, 2008, 07:11 PM
I guess you said good bye to sensitivities every time Dav threw his hat for the India job whenever it presented itself despite being under contract. Or, the other time, when he did a commentary gig for BBC for a few bucks in the middle of a test match in England.

Well, I know about Dav, and I was never a fan of Dav because of his unprofessional acts. But atleast in public he was always talked positive, sort of like our chinaman here. its a simple logic, you dont say bad things about your own people in front of others, you do it behind the curtain or closed door. yeah we all know we are bad, but dont he realize thats why he is here. ne need to tell athe world that we are "gorib" everybody all knows that, tell the people how you WILL BECOME SUCCESSFUL, thats why you get big bucks.

oracle
February 29, 2008, 11:38 PM
It is the BD team and management that needs to tune in to the way professionals in cricket think . We had the soft hands treatment from Dav but once there is some hard criticisms the media tends to protect the players. I agree with Siddons - about time the guys need to develop some thick skin .

Beamer
February 29, 2008, 11:49 PM
Not raining (on the contrary what people think!), but yeah I am upset little bit, not enought good cricket lately I guess. went to phoenix and enjoyed plenty of sunshine!

how things are going on your side beamer? why dont you come by in seattle in summer, it gets super nice!

Doing good. I will definitely get in touch with you when I come to Seattle. In April probably for a week. Later bud..

zainab
March 1, 2008, 08:00 AM
I am a bit doubtful about Siddons now, the way he thinks. I was thinking that WI, Pak, SRi Lanka have new coaches and they have gone downhill sigificantly. I wonder if the same will happen with Bangladesh?

Only time will tell now, as to how he can prepare this team to play competitively against quality teams. It is good that they are not playing test cricket for a while, but from what I have heard, it looks like they will be touring SA late in the year.

Sad that they have not been invited for the Champions trophy.

One World
March 1, 2008, 12:49 PM
Nice. Okay the question is why continue to stay with a struggling WK? This will ruin his confidence and will do further damage. As a coach he must atleast know about backup players of his "core" players. KM was in top 22 players. With KM we probably would have better lineup, atleast it could have been a farewell match for him.


I agree on the wicketkeeping issue, so I guess a lot other members. Unfortunately, there is a huge figurative assessment of Mushfik's capability in this forum as well it is in BD, specially among the top cricketers and officials.

Thats a bit surprising BTW. Actually Mushfik's performance was worse than any other cricketer in the team in tests. Glove work, footwork, batting everything except constant chirping.

arafath79
March 2, 2008, 12:52 PM
Siddons knows Bangladeshi players are weak against the geniune fast bowlers who can bowl consistently with the speed of 140-145 kmp. They can get rid of that in ODI coz bowlers are not allowed to bowl more than 2 bouncer in ODI but it will definitely take more than 5 years for BD to become world beaten test side.

The upcoming young fast bowlers like Rubel, Salahuddin, Roy and Dollar should not be brought in the national team before couple of years from now. The team management should work on their fitness level( growing muscle on the shoulder) and give them more time to groom and become genuine fast bowlers who will be able to bowl 140-145 kmh consistently at the right area in any condition.

In the mean time they should rely on Mashrafe, Shahadat, Rasel, Sajidul and Farhad.

desirocker
March 2, 2008, 07:13 PM
man, how come u don't expect a coach's comment to be disgraceful when he is a disgrace. I dont even want him as our coach. He doesn't have a motive. He's ruining the youngstars.

al-Sagar
March 2, 2008, 11:11 PM
the 2nd test performance proves how right siddons was

pocha
March 3, 2008, 02:04 AM
Latest Dig on Jamie Siddons (http://www.shamokal.com/details.php?nid=90973)

zainab
March 3, 2008, 07:12 AM
So what do you think? Was he right or not? Now does it looke like the 1st TEST performance was a fluke rather and a norm?

Truth hurts.... doesn't it? ... specially when we know he is telling the truth but we are in a denial mode.


The first test performance by BD was helped by the pitch and the complacency of the SA players. It caught them off guard and they were determined not to repeat the same mistake again. Saying this, I give BD a lot of credit for bowling them out under 200 runs, and taking a first innings lead, something that they have not done for a long time
I would say that performance here was like the NZ tour.. Seems that they do well in the beginning and then go downhill, even in the ODIs in NZ.

Tehsin
March 4, 2008, 12:34 AM
If you thought Siddon's comment was a mistake (even tho it was taken out of context), how about Ashraful's comments according to this Daily Star Report?
http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=25997

All I can say is, we (mostly the seletors) have ruined ourselves by always going for the flavor of the month and not sticking to a core unit. Sending this boys to play professionals with a greater experience at this level was never a good idea. I agree with Siddons, "you have got to give them some time".

Dhruvo
March 4, 2008, 01:04 AM
i think siddons is trying to make our players have a revenge type of attitude without making them know,he might be trying to motivate them by discouraging you know what i mean ?,lets hope that happens in the odi series.

bdpride04
March 4, 2008, 01:17 AM
i love that coach JS because he is telling them that who they really r........ ooooooo we beat SA.........oooooooo we can do it again........ well wake up guys it happens once in a moon time........ way to go JS bring them to earth and tell them to prove who they r and teach them to walk the walk not talk the talk........... if we need to change anything it would be ............1) selectors 2) leagues in BD 3) pitches 4) figure out what is test and what is ODI and what is T20............ guys leave the coach alone he is tring hez best but itz the players who have to go out and perform not the coach. as soon as he came in what did he say we need to work on "batting" wasn't that true? and he also worked hard telling them when to leave the balls and when not to. and if the players are dumb enough to make the same mistake over and over again..... ONLY PEOPLE TO BLAME IS THE PLAYERS or send them to english coursing classes or some if they dont understand the coach gosh

crickwizard
March 4, 2008, 01:57 AM
More or less agree with all of you- those who see S<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/<st1:City><st1:place>idon</st1:place></st1:City> telling the 'truth' vs them seeing sidons being 'rude'. Bottom line is, he is paid a high salary to do a miraculous job, so dont whine to the media, handle them intelligently. There is something called diplomacy. Australian is known as outspoken and he needs to learn the localization (culture) before opening big mouth. we dont need to hear the 'truth' and how bad bd cricket is! our media and analysts can do the job. BD cricket has come a long way and his job is to help the team bringing the consistency and test skill set. He needs to tell us what is his plan of development, both short term and long term and what are his commitments for BD team, what changes he going to bring etc. If we waiting for 'miracle' to pull up win, he need to pack his baggage and go to 'shah babar dorgah'. Last December i read his interview on prothom alo, i was annoyed with diminishing discussion. Setting expectation is one thing and bubbling about it is another. In his interview he mentioned BD is lowest in world ranking, hence they are not expected to win easily. if things are all abt ranking, then why even bother to expect anything from the team? Its almost like a government saying, hey <st1:country-region><st1:place>Bangladesh</st1:place></st1:country-region> is one of the most corrupted country in the world, lets not expect to get this better. So yeah, humiliating the team publicly in the media by telling the truth, fact and data is not his job, his job is to bring momentum in the team.