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View Full Version : Leading from the front: A Tale of two captains


Rabz
March 1, 2008, 09:40 AM
Everybody with a sane mind would know the vast difference between South Africa and Bangladesh. While they are one of the top ranked teams, we are still finding our feat on the test cricket arena.

The difference could not be more visible than this ongoing Chittagong test.
Whether it is in skill,experience, determination and/or mindset, it is evident we have long long way to go.

Just for example, take a look at two captains and thier ability to lead from the front.

After an initial trouble and almost hiccup at Dhaka, South African captain Graeme Smith scores 232 and sets a world record opening partnership with his fellow batsman McKenzie. He leads the way for what would be another emphatic win against us. Not only he played a captain's knock, he made sure his partner, who'se on a comeback trial, plays well and sets up for a charged-up afternoon bowling session.

Whereas when its our turn to bat, our talented Mr.Ashraful gets in the middle to chase a massive 583, and manages to get himself out in the first phrea-king ball.

I mean Golden Duck!!! c'mon!

I didnt see how he got out, but however it was, i just cant accept the fact that on such a (supposed) batting paradise chasing such a massive total, our most prolific batsmen, Mr.Captain is out first ball.

....and there lies the difference. Not just between the two captains but between the whole team. If the Commander-in-Chief does not show the way, what wold you expect from the rest.

Even at his age, he is one of the most experienced player in the team by far. Infact once Rafiq is gone and Bashar is set to fade away and Pilots time is nearing as well, Ashraful would be the most experienced player of Bangladesh.

This is one of those countless threads about Ash.

But today, i was really disspointed.

cricman
March 1, 2008, 09:43 AM
Please are you comparing Mashrafe Mortaza to Dale Steyn? I swear Tamim and Juniad are lucky to be alive. Steyn Made this Flat Pitch look like the WACA. He hit Tamim atleast 3 times in the head, Juniad once and Ash was trying to save his head in the process.

Graeme Smith wouldn't have survived the balls the Steyn was bowling in his spell. He'd be good as gone if he faced the ball ash faced. Guy was breathing fire it easily one of the best spells of fast bowling i've ever seen. He was intimidating as hell. I don't know Ash could of played that ball. He tried his best to get outta of the way it hit his glove and he was gone. If Steyn bowls like that tomorrow he'll take 10 easy.

reyme
March 1, 2008, 09:45 AM
good one, lets ashraful retire today so that he dont have to face steyn in second inning, excuse after excuse....

thats why he can never be a graeme smith and thats why his avg will never go above 25.

Rabz
March 1, 2008, 09:50 AM
Graeme Smith wouldn't have survived the balls the Steyn was bowling in his spell.

Well if they cant handle one bowler, then may be they should not play at all.

Yes, Stayne was bowling well, but that does not mean they could not grind it out.
See through the day. Deny him of his wicket. Use all of thier mental,physical and cricketing skill to stay and stay at any cost in the wicket.

Its called determination.

cricman
March 1, 2008, 09:57 AM
Well if they cant handle one bowler, then may be they should not play at all.

Yes, Stayne was bowling well, but that does not mean they could not grind it out.
See through the day. Deny him of his wicket. Use all of thier mental,physical and cricketing skill to stay and stay at any cost in the wicket.

Its called determination.

bowling well? Thats a freakin understatement you don't extract the type of bounce, movement and pace on that pitch the way he was doing. It defied all logic ... Tamim and Juniad threw there wicket away ... but the way he set them up was amazing. Ash was unlucky great ball sometimes a bowler is just too good for your batsmen ... I'm gonna take a page from siddons Steyn is in a class of his own. He's too good for us, when he does it against India next month than you'll see that Today was no fluke.

Check the quotes from Match Thread ... he as in Steyn. Every fast bowler in the world needs to watch his spell today

no team can survive this bowling, he is the reason the black caps were hammered took 10 wickets in each test...

rubel_18
March 1, 2008, 10:04 AM
bowling well? Thats a freakin understatement you don't extract the type of bounce, movement and pace on that pitch the way he was doing. It defied all logic ... Tamim and Juniad threw there wicket away ... but the way he set them up was amazing. Ash was unlucky great ball sometimes a bowler is just too good for your batsmen ... I'm gonna take a page from siddons Steyn is in a class of his own. He's too good for us, when he does it against India next month than you'll see that Today was no fluke.


Very tru cricman bhai, come on not just any bowler takes 101 wickets in just 20 matches. this guy is rly gud.

cricman
March 1, 2008, 10:06 AM
delete

Rabz
March 1, 2008, 10:21 AM
I'm not trying to take anything away from Styne.
I saw for a little while when he was bowling, and he was indeed throwing fireballs.
As said before, nobody takes 100 wickets in 20 tests if they are not good.

But my focus is not at opponents, but at our batsman.

You could forgive Tamim and Zunaed for their inexperience. May be they found it hard to survive such fiery spells.

But Ash knew exactly what he was getting into when he came on to bat.

One hostile spell, few more overs to survive the day.

If our best batsman cant survive that, who should we turn to in times of need?

This happens one two many times. We play well, untill someone like Shoaib Akhter, Heath Streak or Steyne comes in, bowls few fiery overs, and then its all over.

May be they should have withdrawn from playing any shot at all.
10/0 at the end of the day would have been much much more preferable than 60/3.

Spitfire_x86
March 1, 2008, 10:35 AM
I'm not trying to take anything away from Styne.
I saw for a little while when he was bowling, and he was indeed throwing fireballs.
As said before, nobody takes 100 wickets in 20 tests if they are not good.

But my focus is not at opponents, but at our batsman.

You could forgive Tamim and Zunaed for their inexperience. May be they found it hard to survive such fiery spells.

But Ash knew exactly what he was getting into when he came on to bat.

One hostile spell, few more overs to survive the day.

If our best batsman cant survive that, who should we turn to in times of need?

This happens one two many times. We play well, untill someone like Shoaib Akhter, Heath Streak or Steyne comes in, bowls few fiery overs, and then its all over.

May be they should have withdrawn from playing any shot at all.
10/0 at the end of the day would have been much much more preferable than 60/3.
Ash has been guily of irresponsibly throwing his wicket away countless times. But I don't know how could anyone blame him for today's dismissal, if they saw it live (or in highlights). The ball that got him could've got a batsman of any calibre, from Tendulkar to Chris Martin. And he wasn't trying to manufacture a shot against that delivery either.

The reason we lost our wickets today is not trying to score quickly. It's easy to say 10/0 is better than 60/3, but the game is not played like that in the field.

Cricket46
March 1, 2008, 10:36 AM
Ashraful keeps on saying "our batsmen need to score runs." He should add "that includes me." He continues to be irresponsible. I was not watching the match so I don't know how good a ball he faced. But even in the first test when he was playing well, he just threw away his wicket. He was playing like it was a 20/20 match. No front line batsman should play like that, leave alone the captain and the best batsman of the team. When will he learn? But what alternative do we have. A few seasons back against Sri Lanka at home, he looked quite responsible. Hope we are not totally annihilated in this test. So much for the good records in Chittagong.

cricman
March 1, 2008, 10:37 AM
But Ash knew exactly what he was getting into when he came on to bat.

One hostile spell, few more overs to survive the day.

If our best batsman cant survive that, who should we turn to in times of need?



I don't what else I can say to you but watch the tape, IMHO Australia's best Batsmen wouldn't have survived that ball. Ash could have hooked that ball for SIX but that would have been the perfect Shot given the situation right?

Miraz
March 1, 2008, 10:40 AM
That was a too good first ball for any international batsman.

BD-Shardul
March 1, 2008, 10:55 AM
If you are made the captain of the national team when you are relatively young, your first job is to perform consistently, and that is to lead from front. You just cannot establish your authority in the team simply because you are the captain. On paper, you are allowed to do so, but in practical, you will not be able to do that if you do not back your captaincy with good performance.

Just a few days ago, we have seen that Dhoni gave Tendu a warning. What made him so dare to warn a senior player like Tendu? It was his captaincy + his performance.

Unfortunately, Ash is failing miserably in terms of performing consistently. As long as he cannot do that, he will have to remain a "putu putu" captain. Dapoter sathe captaincy will remain in his dream.

I am, even in my dream do not want to see Hablu back as BD captain. But the truth is that, when Hablu was captain, he led from front in all occasions except this world cup. Hablu had some some solid perfomance in every series, both in ODIs and Tests. So, he exerted his authority without any pressure, players respected him, and the overall performance of the team was good. Now we do not have a single player except for Rafiq who can do that, but Rafiq retired, and he was not considered captaincy material. And result: the team performance is going down.

BD-Shardul
March 1, 2008, 11:05 AM
No matter how hostile or unplayable a delivery is, that cannot be the excuse of getting out. If you say that, then why play test cricket then?

Look how Kallis survived the reverse-swing deliveries from Shahdat.

lamisa
March 1, 2008, 11:24 AM
If you are made the captain of the national team when you are relatively young, your first job is to perform consistently, and that is to lead from front. You just cannot establish your authority in the team simply because you are the captain. On paper, you are allowed to do so, but in practical, you will not be able to do that if you do not back your captaincy with good performance.

Just a few days ago, we have seen that Dhoni gave Tendu a warning. What made him so dare to warn a senior player like Tendu? It was his captaincy + his performance.

Unfortunately, Ash is failing miserably in terms of performing consistently. As long as he cannot do that, he will have to remain a "putu putu" captain. Dapoter sathe captaincy will remain in his dream.

I am, even in my dream do not want to see Hablu back as BD captain. But the truth is that, when Hablu was captain, he led from front in all occasions except this world cup. Hablu had some some solid perfomance in every series, both in ODIs and Tests. So, he exerted his authority without any pressure, players respected him, and the overall performance of the team was good. Now we do not have a single player except for Rafiq who can do that, but Rafiq retired, and he was not considered captaincy material. And result: the team performance is going down.

DITTO!

BagherBacha
March 1, 2008, 11:25 AM
ash was unlucky today. i was really mad at Junaed's dismissal, he could really let that ball go. what was he thinking?

zainab
March 1, 2008, 11:27 AM
It was Steyn who annihilated the NZ team in the test matches and ODIs, he was deadly there and the poor Kiwis suffered, I think much worse than BD. he picked up countless wickets in that series and within the last four months against Australia, WI and Pakistan.and there is no turning back. BD has to be the latest victim.

One World
March 1, 2008, 12:39 PM
Looks like I missed a lot of action.

WarWolf
March 1, 2008, 01:14 PM
I agree that Steyn was too good to handle today. Ash was a little bit unlucky. So on and so on.... But the reality is he is one of the most inconsistent batsmen in the world. So being unfortunate this time doesn't make him someone who is a responsible captain and leads from the front.

pocha
March 1, 2008, 01:44 PM
Please are you comparing Mashrafe Mortaza to Dale Steyn? I swear Tamim and Juniad are lucky to be alive. Steyn Made this Flat Pitch look like the WACA. He hit Tamim atleast 3 times in the head, Juniad once and Ash was trying to save his head in the process.



We simply dont have the technique to play short-pitched deliveries. Australia exposed it and every team will now bowl a few at us, thank god it was Chittagong and not WACA.

Tamim/Junaid could have avoided those head blows if they followed the ball till the last moment and dont take their eyes off the ball, lack of skill mate and welcome to quality bowling attack in Test cricket. Imagine if this was WACA.

We have one quality pacer and they have three, the problem lies there.

Finally Ash's captaincy lacks any proper brain, he left his thinking cap in the dressing room, otherwise no team would be defensive from the very first ball in the match, even when wickets were tumbling we had 1-2 slips and hardly any closen fielders. Bascally we were saving runs. However what makes me wonder is what is JS doing? Waiting for miracles to happen :o?

al Furqaan
March 1, 2008, 02:16 PM
we are also forgetting the height factor. that vicious delivery climbed on ash. he would have gotten out, tendy and lara in their pomps would probably have gotten out.

but hayden or smith would not have gotten out because they are 6-3, a good 8 inches taller than those little masters.

BD-Shardul
March 1, 2008, 02:34 PM
Ok,

Ash was unlucky
That bouncer was unplayable
Ash is short
Ash has huge fanbase, who will always have sympathy for him


My beloved Ash,
All these are true. But these will not help you at all in terms of matstering your destiny. You will have to go there, survive these deliveries, remain not out, and score runs. Only these can help you mastering your destiny.

zainab
March 1, 2008, 05:08 PM
How many years has Smith been a captain and how many years has Ashraful been a captain.? What is the difference in their ages? Two different cultures and infrastucture for cricket. Ashraful is captain of a team with young lads who lack experience and fortitide, whereas Smith has a team of superb older players who have been playing ineternational cricket for years.. What do you expect? There is simply no comparison.It is like comparing night and day. it will take BD a decade to even achieve 50% of the standard of the SA team.

checkmate
March 3, 2008, 04:20 AM
Excuses will not take us any furthur, we can be very well remain the 10th ranking test nation for another 100 years.(maybe even lower, as new team will come and win against us).
All that we do is come up with Excuses,this happened & that. it start's with our captain,
team, fans. today Ash might have got out on a good delivery.
But why is it that steyn, ponting, inzamam,dhoni,murlidharan(all these people denied us victory)?.
These people have determination to win,fight till the very end.We lack aggression to fight, in bad situation.Thats the thing we are lacking. we always come up with excuses, because we don't want to work hard, and we don't work hard.
Mens don't become great by talent but with their hard work,persiverence, see Rafique for Example our true legend. to win JAAN DITE HOYE!

insideedge
March 3, 2008, 06:28 AM
To say that Steyn destroyed New Zealand and therefore Bangladesh batsmen have a right to fail against Steyn is unacceptable. Steyn has taken 100 wickets in 20 tests only because he has bowled to batsmen of New Zealand, West Indies and Bangladesh who constitute 70 % of his victims.

This pitch was not Perth, it was more like Faislabad.

To surrender 20 wickets for less than 400 runs on this pitch, and then blame Steyn for it should not be acceptable. And what about Petersen taking 5/33 in the second innings? Bangladeshi batsmen may not be well equipped to face Steyn, but what is the excuse for this tame surrender against a mediocre left arm spinner ?

PoorFan
March 3, 2008, 07:24 AM
Steyn or no Steyn, good ball or not is not the issue. If Ash have played / showed a SINGLE series ( in his entire career ) with consistent responsibility and sense ... a member like Rabz wouldn't open such a thread I think.

The real problem is ... in every series Ash plays 2,3 time or more irresponsible or criminal wise, even though later he admits his fault and promise not to repeat ... but remain utterly UNCHANGED ... is a day-light fact now. To me its very very unlikely that he is going to learn anything ever, because he is not even consistent in TRYING ( to play sensible or responsible ), which we observe here and there in some series!

How can one expect him learning ( someday ) if he even NOT consistent in trying?

Fazal
March 3, 2008, 02:22 PM
The real problem is ... in every series Ash plays 2,3 time or more irresponsible or criminal wise, even though later he admits his fault and promise not to repeat ... but remain utterly UNCHANGED ... is a day-light fact now. To me its very very unlikely that he is going to learn anything ever, because he is not even consistent in TRYING ( to play sensible or responsible ), which we observe here and there in some series!

How can one expect him learning ( someday ) if he even NOT consistent in trying?

Exactly.
Ash and Aftab both have natural agressive batting style. But the difference is: I have seen hope (that he is trying) in Afab's batting where-as I have seen nothing that tells me Ash is trying to learn. Other difference is: Ash is talking too much (and not keeping his own words) where as Aftab let his action do all the talking.

Tigers_eye
March 3, 2008, 02:46 PM
I hear this steyn is a monstor or something? How many four did he concede against Abdur Razzak? Go count. This is the topic of you guys thesis paper. Stop giving too much credit to the bowlers and trying to hide the deficiencies of our beloved extremely over rated batsmen. The sooner you do the faster you will enter in to the relm of reality.

Rabz,
Put some more stats and put this in the front page. Let the real words get exposed.

Tigers_eye
March 3, 2008, 02:53 PM
To say that Steyn destroyed New Zealand and therefore Bangladesh batsmen have a right to fail against Steyn is unacceptable. Steyn has taken 100 wickets in 20 tests only because he has bowled to batsmen of New Zealand, West Indies and Bangladesh who constitute 70 % of his victims.

This pitch was not Perth, it was more like Faislabad.

To surrender 20 wickets for less than 400 runs on this pitch, and then blame Steyn for it should not be acceptable. And what about Petersen taking 5/33 in the second innings? Bangladeshi batsmen may not be well equipped to face Steyn, but what is the excuse for this tame surrender against a mediocre left arm spinner ?
Anyone defending Ash or the team has any excuse left?

Ash had four tries at his disposal. In tracks like Mirpur and Chittagong. He averaged 15.5. He is the captain. How can he demand performance from Mushi, Shakib, Junaid, Tamim? Kon mukhey he can ask those stuff? he can't and he doesn't. Hense the team performs mediocre.

Without the shear determination of Shahadat to succeed, Junaid or Abdur Razzak trying to prove a point, 3 day affairs at home against SA would have been the norm.

Murad
March 3, 2008, 02:57 PM
BD players boltei bhuaa

ash bolen ar mash bolen.. shob gulaiiiii ghu khai.. bujhchen??

we never had a captain who led the team from front. and i don't think we will have any in near future. all are gadha...