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sonarbangla
March 10, 2008, 07:36 AM
I think Habibul used to be a much better captain than Ashraful. As a captain you need to take care of both inside and outside field relationship with your players. I don't think Ashraful is doing that right. The confidence we had in our player during the WC or after the WC, is not same as what we see now.

I think its the age factor.. or maybe Ashraful's approach towards the match.

Most of the time Ashraful seems to give out singles, which eventually turns into a burden on our team. His field placement is simple horrible in most of the cases.

I agree that Habibul used to hold a spot, and didn't perform. But once you consider the overall performance of the team. I think Habibul will get my vote.

The selectors has broken the team combination we were having since the last WC. And I have strong believe that if they keep doing this, the next WC will be another disaster like WC2003 in South-Africa.

I think selectors should go over this issue, and have a captain who is over 30 years of age. Ashraful is more like the Picchi king of his Picchi team-mates , with no proper knowledge and so on. He wasn't a deputy of Habibul either. So he certainly is inexperienced. I think S.Nafees knows better captaincy than Ash does. What do you guys think? :doh:

BangladeshFan
March 10, 2008, 09:00 AM
i also think ashraful is not a natural leader. he may be a talented player but he doesnt possess leadership qualities. for example tendulkar was a failed captain but there is no question of his immense talent, but guys like imran or kapil were natural leaders and were successful as captain even at young age, their performance also didnt suffer as captain.

i dont think age may be a factor though it is easier to get attention of players when the captain is more experieced than others. but we cant go back to HB , so we should choose a captain who is capable to hold his place and a natural leader who relish captaincy.

We should look else where, may be SN, may be mashrafi?

Tigers_eye
March 10, 2008, 09:18 AM
Suru hoiya gasey? How soon we forgot the ex-captain's horrible decisions?

There is no reason we need to revisit his failures.

BANFAN
March 10, 2008, 09:57 AM
Not yet time to compare. let him spend some time please

zainab
March 10, 2008, 10:03 AM
Not yet time to compare. let him spend some time please


Exactly my thoughts. One cannot chop and change captains in mid stream. it is no good for team morale.

Ajfar
March 10, 2008, 10:08 AM
u can't compare em yett..

KnightBD
March 10, 2008, 10:23 AM
i also think ashraful is not a natural leader. he may be a talented player but he doesnt possess leadership qualities. for example tendulkar was a failed captain but there is no question of his immense talent, but guys like imran or kapil were natural leaders and were successful as captain even at young age, their performance also didnt suffer as captain.
...
ditto...
No offense to Ash, but he is the best talent we have. We should not waste him, and for his benefit, we should opt out of captaincy like Tendu (who is still contributing to his country's cricket). We haven't won any game under Ash yet. May be one more series before we should think about a possible change of captaincy.

sonarbangla
March 10, 2008, 10:23 AM
well mashrafee is not a good captain either.

I would go for SN.

See the point is, a captain need to grow up as time passes. Habibul lost many ODIs and Tests before he lead Bangaldesh to victory. I think it is reasonable to give Ash more chances .. maybe like next 2/3 years so he gets some more experience and adding those up can go for something big. But we have to remember its always better to have a captain who have worked as a depute (vice captain) in the field. in that sense SN should have more knowledge in this area than ashraful. I prefer SN to lead and Ash being the vice captain for now, so he can lead our team later. But if our team keep loosing like this over and over again [since the Indian tour in May] .. we will go back in 2003.. our confidence level will shatter.. infact, it has already showed some crackz..

Giving Ash 3 more years will cause Bangaldesh fall 3 years behind.. rather lets select SN the captain and Ash the vice captain for next 2 years. Then once Ash gets some first hand experience, we can always switch their place..

sonarbangla
March 10, 2008, 10:26 AM
ditto...
No offense to Ash, but he is the best talent we have. We should not waste him, and for his benefit, we should opt out of captaincy like Tendu (who is still contributing to his country's cricket). We haven't won any game under Ash yet. May be one more series before we should think about a possible change of captaincy.


I think instead of that we should say, we have not perform well under his captaincy yet. Do we remember when last time we cross 250? If you do, its before Ash took over our team... Ok lets say he is still inexperienced so the field set up was horrible and so on.. but what about the performance? why is that going down hill over time? :confused:

WarWolf
March 10, 2008, 10:55 AM
Ufff. Shob kisu te eder complain............

Fazal
March 10, 2008, 11:03 AM
So there is room for improvement. Bashar's captaincy shouldn't be a standard for measurement for future captain. That should be easy milestone to achieve.
As a captain, Ash is still new and hopfully learning. So I am willing to wait and see. But so far he kind of diapointed me a bit. Specially last two series. Looks like he is going backward. I am worried about him: the captain Ash as well as the player Ash.

bulbul_fan
March 10, 2008, 11:08 AM
I could not agree with the thread opener.
Ash is much much better captain from hablu. He is more attacking unlike hablu who cost us many match because of his defensive and ove r defensive tactics!

reyme
March 10, 2008, 11:09 AM
My concern is Ash looked very nervous during the last few times he went out to bat. Pressure? top it off, Moni's questionable decision did not help the cause. How come home umpires are giving bad decisions against our own players? This is enough to ruin someone's confidence.

al Furqaan
March 10, 2008, 11:39 AM
at least ash is not getting run out like a buffon. lets remember that should ash's captaincy stink for 10 years it will still be better than bashar's simply because ash was a solid tactician for the first few matches. something bashar did not do.

abu2abu
March 10, 2008, 11:43 AM
i think at the end of his career, Ash will be widely remembered as a better captain than Habibul. Right now, he's still on a learning curve.

As for his batting form, it looks like he just needs one good knock to get his confidence back...

Aritro
March 10, 2008, 11:52 AM
It's all getting a bit silly now.

I played school cricket with better captains than Bashar.

For all his failings, Ashraful at least has a dynamism that Bashar couldn't provide even after 13 cans of Red Bull. Some of his off the wall tactics may not have come off, and nearly all of the performances have been woeful, but Ash at least tries to be inventive, and I'd much rather have a captain who tries to manufacture a positive outcome and fails than one who writes out a generic blueprint on the back of a napkin and follows it to the letter no matter what the situation.

Eshen
March 10, 2008, 12:24 PM
...writes out a generic blueprint on the back of a napkin and follows it to the letter no matter what the situation.
Did not Ashraful do the same thing in the last ODI ? Otherwise, why did he persist with SLAs for so long (during powerplays) ? Or, why did he take 2nd and 3rd powerplays ?

Last thing I would call that kind of dumb captaincy is being inventive.

Beamer
March 10, 2008, 12:33 PM
It's all getting a bit silly now.

I played school cricket with better captains than Bashar.

For all his failings, Ashraful at least has a dynamism that Bashar couldn't provide even after 13 cans of Red Bull. Some of his off the wall tactics may not have come off, and nearly all of the performances have been woeful, but Ash at least tries to be inventive, and I'd much rather have a captain who tries to manufacture a positive outcome and fails than one who writes out a generic blueprint on the back of a napkin and follows it to the letter no matter what the situation.

Post of the month ! You are right.

BANFAN
March 10, 2008, 12:53 PM
well mashrafee is not a good captain either.

I would go for SN.

See the point is, a captain need to grow up as time passes. Habibul lost many ODIs and Tests before he lead Bangaldesh to victory. I think it is reasonable to give Ash more chances .. maybe like next 2/3 years so he gets some more experience and adding those up can go for something big. But we have to remember its always better to have a captain who have worked as a depute (vice captain) in the field. in that sense SN should have more knowledge in this area than ashraful. I prefer SN to lead and Ash being the vice captain for now, so he can lead our team later. But if our team keep loosing like this over and over again [since the Indian tour in May] .. we will go back in 2003.. our confidence level will shatter.. infact, it has already showed some crackz..

Giving Ash 3 more years will cause Bangaldesh fall 3 years behind.. rather lets select SN the captain and Ash the vice captain for next 2 years. Then once Ash gets some first hand experience, we can always switch their place..

Keno bhai, SN kon dik die Ash er cheye advantage a ache? SN could not hold on to his position in the team after becoming VC, ajaira kotha shob. Je dui bochor SN ke die trial korte chan, shantite oi dui bochor Ash koruk na, what's the problem? Let him mature as a captain. SN ki clive loyed er gene carry kore naki, je apni eto confident without visible reasons?

Apni Gorur Rochona likhte likhte goruke nodir kache nie, nodir rochona shuru kore diechen (Pl See High lights of your post)

sandpiper
March 10, 2008, 12:55 PM
Our problem is our batting and bowling, not captaincy. :hairpull:

auntu
March 10, 2008, 01:05 PM
The selectors has broken the team combination we were having since the last WC. And I have strong believe that if they keep doing this, the next WC will be another disaster like WC2003 in South-Africa.

This is the most important point. I still remember what Ian Chappel, John Wright said about our WC team. They said it is a wonderfull job done by the selectors.

Faruk & Athar have chosen the team over years peformance and made a comdinition and that combination pays the dividend. They had a selection plan on which they were doing their job.

This selectors (one of the worst in the history of BD) just break that combination and choosing players with no such plan :o. I am not only shocked but also scared about their selection.

About Ash's performance as captain he is not up to the standard but it is a learning curve for him and he needs time to adjust. In 2/3 years time he will be one the finest of BD. Inshallah:flag:

Fazal
March 10, 2008, 01:26 PM
About Ash's performance as captain he is not up to the standard but it is alearning curve for him and he needs time to adjust. In 2/3 years time he will be one the finest of BD. Inshallah:flag:


Alarming? I agree the curve is alarming... alamot Bhaloo na.

auntu
March 10, 2008, 02:13 PM
Alarming? I agree the curve is alarming... alamot Bhaloo na.
alearning = a learning

uff! "ekta space statement k hablu banaidei" :-p

djnaved
March 10, 2008, 02:56 PM
Ash is much much better captain from hablu. He is more attacking unlike hablu who cost us many match because of his defensive and ove r defensive tactics!

can't agree, because of hablu's captaincy bd had won atleast some matches. Hablu said once that because of defencive fielding we have some matches..otherwise we won't won.. now, ash is trying to make attacking fielding side, but it ain't gonna work. Because in odi, we don't have any good pace bowler except rasel..

djnaved
March 10, 2008, 02:59 PM
well mashrafee is not a good captain either.

I would go for SN.

See the point is, a captain need to grow up as time passes. Habibul lost many ODIs and Tests before he lead Bangaldesh to victory. I think it is reasonable to give Ash more chances .. maybe like next 2/3 years so he gets some more experience and adding those up can go for something big. But we have to remember its always better to have a captain who have worked as a depute (vice captain) in the field. in that sense SN should have more knowledge in this area than ashraful. I prefer SN to lead and Ash being the vice captain for now, so he can lead our team later. But if our team keep loosing like this over and over again [since the Indian tour in May] .. we will go back in 2003.. our confidence level will shatter.. infact, it has already showed some crackz..

Giving Ash 3 more years will cause Bangaldesh fall 3 years behind.. rather lets select SN the captain and Ash the vice captain for next 2 years. Then once Ash gets some first hand experience, we can always switch their place..

fahim mamu, i agree:-D

SN got better cricket knowledge then ashraful. Any doubt? Though he is having a bad time now...:(

Rubu
March 10, 2008, 03:02 PM
Lets not have a fixed captain at all for the team. Before each GAME, write down the name of the 11 players on 11 pitch of payers and whoever's name is picked will be the captain for the game.

reyme
March 10, 2008, 03:13 PM
What about Jamie Siddons as a captain? This will give something to do outside the boundary rope while sunbathing.

Aritro
March 11, 2008, 03:14 AM
Did not Ashraful do the same thing in the last ODI ? Otherwise, why did he persist with SLAs for so long (during powerplays) ? Or, why did he take 2nd and 3rd powerplays ?

Last thing I would call that kind of dumb captaincy is being inventive.

I only managed to watch the first innings of the match, so I don't know the details of the situation but from the sounds of it you are right in saying he was a bit silly to keep Shahadat away from the action till the 20th over.

However, on a different note, I think he should be applauded for throwing Razzak on early. Given that we were at least 80 runs short of a workable total, we weren't ever realistically going to stand any chance of winning without trying something unusual. Trying to manufacture some early momentum by getting Razzak to try and exploit the low bounce wasn't a bad idea. That said, it did go horribly wrong, he seemingly persisted with it too long, and I didn't actually watch it so I don't want to expand on it too much.

One thing I've rarely seen him doing is indulging Bashar's idiotic habit of putting six fielders on the fence as soon as the fielding restrictions went off, even if we had the opposition four wickets down. There's no better way to lose momentum and allow the opposition to get back into an ODI than that and the worst thing was that he'd do it time after time. During the last World Cup we had the West Indians crawling along at under three and over with 4 wickets down at the 30th. What any captain with even the slightest intuition would have done was the keep the field in and mount further pressure by cutting off the singles and try and get stuck into the tail as quickly as possible. But of course Sir Bashar went into damage control mode, and the result was that Sarwan and co. calmly collected singles at five an over and then, having rebuilt the innings, set about flaying us in the last ten overs and posting 250. That was one of many examples of games we let slip through poor captaincy. In fact, in that game we won against the Indians in the World Cup, he predicatably did the same thing and let Yuvraj and Ganguly put on 80 runs until some loose batting saw the end of that partnership. That was an example, among others, of a game that we won inspite of Bashar's captaincy rather than because of it.

Even though Ashraful's tactics and field placings were worryingly uninspired in that second test match, he can at least usually be expected to try and make things happen.

What I find most bizzare of all are the people pointing to Bashar's record. The truth of the matter is that he accumuled less than a handful of wins against decent opposition in a reign that spanned several years, amongst some admittedly commendable results against the crap ones. Ashraful, meanwhile, hasn't so far had the chance to bully any of the minnow nations. To date, he has captained the side in away series against New Zealand and Sri Lanka, both of which would have represented guaranteed losses even if Sir Frank Worrell were leading us out onto the field, and home series against South African side who are currently the second best team in the world, and a weakened India side, whom we might have managed a win against on a good day, but I think we're getting a tad carried away if we consider ourselves to be an accomplished enough team to go into a series expecting a win against the Indians, even if they left a couple of frontline players at home.

It would also have helped if we'd had a coach for him to build an understanding with between March and November. :rolleyes:

The margins we're losing may be unacceptable, but I daresay they have less to do with Ashraful's captaincy than they do with how woefully inadequate Bangladeshi cricket generally still is.

scoilaheez
March 11, 2008, 03:43 AM
I think Ash will grow into the captaincy as Hablu became a better capt with experience, give Ash another 1-2 years and u will see the improvements in his decision making. At least Ash has the boldness to try something different like opening with Raj (no matter how stupid it was), it shows he has guts and that is the basis of a good captain e.g. Steve Waugh, Ponting, Fleming...

BANFAN
March 11, 2008, 04:20 AM
Let Ash remain the captain as long as he is good for playing in the team.

rickshaman
March 11, 2008, 05:18 AM
bulbul---habibul---ashraful ----- eto bhul er por ekta finally ful......!!!!

BANFAN
March 11, 2008, 04:02 PM
bulbul---habibul---ashraful ----- eto bhul er por ekta finally ful......!!!!

'The bravest people are always the foolest people'

Brave people make good leaders, they are fools to take risks definitely.

Aatels don't lead, they advise from behind the scene, bacause they know the consequences, if things go wrong. They are not risk takers.

Antora
March 11, 2008, 05:14 PM
bulbul---habibul---ashraful ----- eto bhul er por ekta finally ful......!!!!

haha LOL!

Dhakablues
March 11, 2008, 05:40 PM
Ta thak... eto bhuler por ekta ful pawa gelo,, magar ful taw dumurer ful.

Haradhon
March 11, 2008, 06:07 PM
Those of us asking for a change in captaincy are just showing our well known national character - lack of patiance, lack of understanding of long-term goals etc. Why not give this guys a full year until mid-2009?
Spending time on debating captaincy seems to be absurd to me!!!

Omio
March 11, 2008, 06:47 PM
bulbul---habibul---ashraful ----- eto bhul er por ekta finally ful......!!!!
then rOKIBUL

billah
March 11, 2008, 07:00 PM
Ashraful may not be looking so good at the moment, he may even become disenchanted with this whole captaincy thing, however, it is so very refreshing seeing him instead of Mr. timid, habla kanto. It is my belief, the fact that our beginning years stats in tests will forever look skewed, is largely owed to the defeatist mentality of Habibul. From day one of his leadership, he hurt the team.

I also think he's having a tough time adjusting to our new coach. Ashraful is Ashraful, on again-off again. If Ash rewinds back to about 6 months ago, he'll be alright.
I have more doubts about JS now. What if he is just overwhelmed with his newfound position power? He is no longer the second-man. He might still be going through personality adjustment. He's making amateur mistakes of shuffling and reshuffling the team, in search of his first victory. He seems to be an agitated person, somewhat edgy. I would not be surprised if some tension between Ash & Jamie blows over and comes out to the surface.

Bengali Bum
March 11, 2008, 11:50 PM
Asharaful can't handle pressure well..
Habibul did a better job at doing it.

Dhurr
March 11, 2008, 11:52 PM
I am probably the biggest Bashar fan in Banglacricket but even I would say Ashraful is a far better captain than Bashar. Bashar did what he had to do; he led from the front and gave us respectability and stability during the rocky years of our cricketing infancy. His timid, pre-set game plans worked when we were expected to lose every match and played only to earn respectable defeats. Ashraful is the kind of captain we need now because now we are trying to win games on the days when every thing clicks for us and/or our opponents have a bad day in the field. You cannot replace Ashraful today with anybody else, because he is the only "automatic selection" (as much as I hate to use that phrase, it is true in his case) in the Bangladeshi team. You cannot choose a new captain who does not have a guaranteed position in the side. Whose position is guaranteed? Shakib? Nafees? Mashrafee? None of them are mainstays of the team. Only Ashraful is. So please, let's not call for his head just now. As much as I hate his inconsistent batting, I think he is the best captain we could have under the circumstances.

djnaved
March 12, 2008, 02:38 AM
I am probably the biggest Bashar fan in Banglacricket but even I would say Ashraful is a far better captain than Bashar. Bashar did what he had to do; he led from the front and gave us respectability and stability during the rocky years of our cricketing infancy. His timid, pre-set game plans worked when we were expected to lose every match and played only to earn respectable defeats. Ashraful is the kind of captain we need now because now we are trying to win games on the days when every thing clicks for us and/or our opponents have a bad day in the field. You cannot replace Ashraful today with anybody else, because he is the only "automatic selection" (as much as I hate to use that phrase, it is true in his case) in the Bangladeshi team. You cannot choose a new captain who does not have a guaranteed position in the side. Whose position is guaranteed? Shakib? Nafees? Mashrafee? None of them are mainstays of the team. Only Ashraful is. So please, let's not call for his head just now. As much as I hate his inconsistent batting, I think he is the best captain we could have under the circumstances.

dude, we all think that we gonna win with this team, we gonna win with that team, but it ain't gonna work. If we are dreaming of wining against big teams, then we are out of the mind. We need to play normal cricket. Big teams like SA,Aussie, NZ,India can change the game at any time. They have that kind of players. But, we have none who can change the whole story. We have that talents but it will need a long time to build up. Now, back to bashar's captaincy that he never thought of wining a match with big teams. He just prefered to play good cricket. Now, in this time, Ash is trying to win the matches with big teams. Undoubtly, ash is a excellent player, but he doesn't know what to do in exact situation.. Sakib/Nafees/Rajjak know what to do in exact situation. Though nafees is not in a good touch.

Fazal
March 12, 2008, 05:24 AM
Thats the only choice we have? You are asking us to choose between Neem and Korolla? Where are the choice for rosho golla?

Don't we deserve even better?

nzfan
March 12, 2008, 05:34 AM
ill be captain, i look like dan vettori, so that might help

crickwizard
March 12, 2008, 06:04 AM
we can outsource captaincy until the team grow up, and these habluz start to use their brain, have the team use headset like american football during the game and have that retired captain (Stephen fleming) to lead them from NZ online

Shehwar
March 12, 2008, 06:09 AM
Cricket is a very simple thing when you get the basics right...I always felt Bashar used to do the basic things right and got along with the players..The players looked up to him and that produced results....To me it almost seems as if this team under Ash tends to think every game you have to do extra-ordinary things to win a cricket match...In trying to do so they are putting extra pressure on themselves...thus losing their heads and are not even playing cricket to a basic standard!

Sovik
March 12, 2008, 06:39 AM
two sides of the same coin

Shehwar
March 12, 2008, 06:44 AM
There is a thing called playing within their limits....because of Ash's attitude this side is trying to do things that they are simply not capable of...Thus giving the worlwide media a chance to make a mockery of our side...

BangladeshFan
March 12, 2008, 09:01 AM
Those of us asking for a change in captaincy are just showing our well known national character - lack of patiance, lack of understanding of long-term goals etc. Why not give this guys a full year until mid-2009?
Spending time on debating captaincy seems to be absurd to me!!!

what good will come out giving time??

captaincy is not like batting/bowling form in int. matches. everyone can captain a side, howoever the good ones can inspire the team. their personlity/ fight abilities rub off on the team. it doesnt take years to do that.

i think the guy who can lead Bd well is SN. He has a bit of guts about him, which are missing from most Bd players. He came from a good background and a good school. Even though I am not from joseph but i know the school teaches virtue of hard work and patience. he can address the media as well.

Go Shahriar Nafees, I am for him as Bd captain ......and now not in distant future.:smug:

tiger_army
March 12, 2008, 09:06 AM
Ashraful become more conservative then basher..... Ash shud gamble those last 4 overs of razzak with more attacking field.. Instead he went for a sommanjonok loss.... Was he scared to gamble??? why???

zainab
March 12, 2008, 10:36 AM
It seems that everyone is a captain from beyond the boundary line. Should be a group petition here for fans to pressure BCB to remove Ash as captain, the way they were pressured to drop Mushy.